Views of Hungarians in Austria?

[Szegedist]

I am curious,

1) How are Hungarians viewed by the general Austrian population?

2) How are historic events, like Rákóczi war of independence, 1848, compromise of 1867 etc taught as in Austrian schools and viewed by Austrians?

3) Is there a blame for Hungary for start WW1, or the loss of WW1, etc?

[Žołnir]

3) Is there a blame for Hungary for start WW1, or the loss of WW1, etc?

What? I don't think Hungary started a war i mean it was a land under same ruler like other Cisleithanian lands.

[Szegedist]

Technically we had the same emperor, however we had our own politicians, prime ministers, and a parliament.
Hungary was blamed for WW1 the most after the war. Some people even think, especially in Balkan countries that it was us who wanted to expand into Serbia, and we dragged Austria into it...

[Baluarte]

In all my time talking to nationalists from all countries, I've never seen any Austrian attacking Hungary. Other than sparse comments like "oh, their industrial productivity was low and couldn't contribute too much", which is somehow true, but that's about it.

I had the chance to go to Vienna in november 2011 and talk to some people around it who are a bit nostalgic from the Habsburg days. For the most part they appreciated the diversity of the Empire and the only regret they had, was the fact that mounting nationalism in the XIX and XX Century completely shattered the political unity that was once built on religion and dinasty, rather than ethnos.

[Corvus]

If your intention is to inititiate a vital discussion like against Serbs or Romanians, this trial is doomed to fail.
As a matter of fact most Austrians have a very good relationship with Hungarians and of all things which happened
in the past only the positive things are kept in mind.

And don`t forget that a huge number of Eastern Austrians, esp. from Burgenland have Hungarian roots.

[Szegedist]

If your intention is to inititiate a vital discussion like against Serbs or Romanians, this trial is doomed to fail.
No... I am just curious to hear your side of the story. There are no malicious intentions in this thread.

I see no harm in a debate over some events, as long as it's kept civil.

[Corvus]

I am curious,

1) How are Hungarians viewed by the general Austrian population?

2) How are historic events, like Rákóczi war of independence, 1848, compromise of 1867 etc taught as in Austrian schools and viewed by Austrians?

3) Is there a blame for Hungary for start WW1, or the loss of WW1, etc?

Ok

1) Excellent as long as they don`t look Turanid, because this could lead to the impression they are Turkish

2) In Austrian schools Hungarians are always depicted in the best light as loyal allies and partners of the renowned K.u.K. empire.
These events are mentioned but never in a deragatory way. Hungarians were given special rights during the empire period and
were also much better treated than Slavs. They were privileged and this is reflected also now.

3) Never heard about that. Slavic populations struggled for more rights and freedom. If anyone they are blamed

[Szegedist]

In all my time talking to nationalists from all countries, I've never seen any Austrian attacking Hungary. Other than sparse comments like "oh, their industrial productivity was low and couldn't contribute too much", which is somehow true, but that's about it.
The reason of Austria-Hungary's fast economic growth compared to other countries was because each region specialized in what it was best at. Austria and Bohemia were better suited for Industry, so that is where the industry was. Hungary, with it's vast arable land was better suited for agriculture, so it was a mainly agricultural land and fed the rest of the empire. So to blame Hungary for not being as industrialized is foolish.

[Szegedist]

2) In Austrian schools Hungarians are always depicted in the best light as loyal allies and partners of the renowned K.u.K. empire.
These events are mentioned but never in a deragatory way. Hungarians were given special rights during the empire period and
were also much better treated than Slavs. They were privileged and this is reflected also now.
I don't know about that, the privileges only really came after 1867. There were many cases when Hungarians were not trusted by the Austrians, so some territories were settled with Serbs and Danube Swabians, which Hungarians were forbidden to settle.


3) Never heard about that. Slavic populations struggled for more rights and freedom. If anyone they are blamed
From what I have picked up discussing it with them, that is how A-H is portrayed in Romania, Serbia and maybe a few others. Some think Hungary was the main country in A-H, while Austria did our bidding. And no I am not making this up :)

[Corvus]

I don't know about that, the privileges only really came after 1867. There were many cases when Hungarians were not trusted by the Austrians, so some territories were settled with Serbs and Danube Swabians, which Hungarians were forbidden to settle.


From what I have picked up discussing it with them, that is how A-H is portrayed in Romania, Serbia and maybe a few others. Some think Hungary was the main country in A-H, while Austria did our bidding. And no I am not making this up :)

Thats no surprise, due to the fact that the empire was based on a dual power after the compromise 1867.
Serbia, Croatia, Slovakia Bukovina and Transilvania was under Hungarian submission, while Bohemia, Moravia and Silesia and ofc the Italian and Austrian provinces belonged to the Austrian regime.
Still Austria had the leading role. Hungarians were only assistence. Everyone knows that. The epicentre of power was in Vienna

[Szegedist]

Bukovina was never under Hungarian submission
http://www.dvhh.org/research/maps/austria-hungary-kingdoms-countries.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Cisleithania%2C_Lands_of_the_Crown_of_Saint_Stephe n%2C_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina.svg

[Corvus]

Bukovina was never under Hungarian submission
http://www.dvhh.org/research/maps/austria-hungary-kingdoms-countries.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Cisleithania%2C_Lands_of_the_Crown_of_Saint_Stephe n%2C_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina.svg

Correct, thats a good map actually, also not the Balkan provinces as we can see. So I have to admit my error.

[Szegedist]

Still Austria had the leading role. Hungarians were only assistence. Everyone knows that. The epicentre of power was in Vienna

Not everybody, from what I have seen, and after discussing what they are taught about this in schools, there is misconception about this in some of our neigbouring countries.

[Corvus]

Not everybody, from what I have seen, and after discussing what they are taught about this in schools, there is misconception about this in some of our neigbouring countries.

There is some lack of knowledge, but well all intellectual minded people know that Austria was the political and economical centre of the monarchy. Why do you think so many people from the periphery of the empire migrated to Vienna. Because there they hoped to find prosperity and improved legal rights.

And 1867 ,this was a compromise between the Hungarian nation and the dynasty, not between Hungary and the rest of the empire, and it is symptomatic of the Hungarian attitude that led Hungarians to refer to Francis Joseph and his successor as their king and never their emperor.

[Szegedist]

There is some lack of knowledge, but well all intellectual minded people know that Austria was the political and economical centre of the monarchy. Why do you think so many people from the periphery of the empire migrated to Vienna. Because there they hoped to find prosperity and improved legal rights.
I know, I never disagreed that Vienna was the center :)


And 1867 ,this was a compromise between the Hungarian nation and the dynasty, not between Hungary and the rest of the empire, and it is symptomatic of the Hungarian attitude that led Hungarians to refer to Francis Joseph and his successor as their king and never their emperor.

Correct, because Hungary was an Apostolic Kingdom.

[Austo]

Most Austrians like Hungary.

[Stears]

I doubt that the leading and modern sector of the industry (the contemporary high tech industry: eletric engineering and machine building) were bigger in Austrian Empire than in Kingdom of Hungary. However the high-tech industry gave fewer employment than the cheap-built light-industry of Bohemia and Austria. In the most industrialized countries like Germany and England, the light industry gave the 90% of jobs, because light industry is very labor-intensive. (just imagine how many shoes clothes glass tablewares etc.. were claimed by the general population) However Hungary had a more serious industry than light industry in Austrian Empire. That's why Austrian half was "better industrialised" by the means of the ratio of employed people on industrial sector. The most cars were manufactured in Hungarian part of the empire. Electric factories for light bulbs, power-pain generators turbo-generators, transformers, telephone-tools existed only in Kingdom Hungary. Austrian Empire had only 3 automotive industry, Kingdom of Hungary had 5 automotive factory. Austria had 3 locomotive machine indusrty in Vienna, Hungary had two (MÁV and Ganz) but we had bigger capacity. We produced only electric trains for export and electric trams for cities in the A-H Empire. The Bohemian industry was not competitive in western-European markets like U.k: France, Italy Germany, therefore they had to sold most of their industrial export in Eastern Europe (Russia) and Balkan. Meanwhile Hungarian machine-building firms could successfull export to Britain Franca Italy, and even Germany.





The reason of Austria-Hungary's fast economic growth compared to other countries was because each region specialized in what it was best at. Austria and Bohemia were better suited for Industry, so that is where the industry was. Hungary, with it's vast arable land was better suited for agriculture, so it was a mainly agricultural land and fed the rest of the empire. So to blame Hungary for not being as industrialized is foolish.

[Stears]

Turanid? Turanian central Asian people belongs partially or entirely to Haplogroup "Q" which has higher ratio in Austria than in Hungary. So in the light of modern genetic science is strange when Austrians think that Hungarians belong to Mongoloid people.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml





Ok

1) Excellent as long as they don`t look Turanid, because this could lead to the impression they are Turkish

2) In Austrian schools Hungarians are always depicted in the best light as loyal allies and partners of the renowned K.u.K. empire.
These events are mentioned but never in a deragatory way. Hungarians were given special rights during the empire period and
were also much better treated than Slavs. They were privileged and this is reflected also now.

3) Never heard about that. Slavic populations struggled for more rights and freedom. If anyone they are blamed

[Szegedist]

From the link you posted, Austria: 0.5% Q, Hungary:1% Q

[Stears]

But Vienna was lesser developed than Budapest. Forexample Budapest had electric tramlines, underground, and even telephone swichboard eralier than Vienna. check it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria-hungary

Despite the fact that Vienna has larger population (2,083,630 in 1910 Budapest had only: 1,232,026 in 1910 ) Budapest built de-facto 5X bigger downtown-area than Vienna. Vienna has little downtown area, and most inner streets of Vienna have very suburban -like atmosphere.



There is some lack of knowledge, but well all intellectual minded people know that Austria was the political and economical centre of the monarchy. Why do you think so many people from the periphery of the empire migrated to Vienna. Because there they hoped to find prosperity and improved legal rights.

And 1867 ,this was a compromise between the Hungarian nation and the dynasty, not between Hungary and the rest of the empire, and it is symptomatic of the Hungarian attitude that led Hungarians to refer to Francis Joseph and his successor as their king and never their emperor.


The architecture of Budapest differs from the typical central-European look Vienna and Prague. We had French Italian and even English fasioned (western European ) streets, which looks better than the sloppier Central European buildings.

[Stears]

From the link you posted, Austria: 0.5% Q, Hungary:1% Q

But many Austrians and southern Germans have strange eastern look in my Transdanubian eyes. (due to the fact that Transdanubia is the only central-european location where the non-european type of haplogroups are 0.0% (!) It is rarity in Central Europe.

[Corvus]

But many Austrians and southern Germans have strange eastern look in my Transdanubian eyes. (due to the fact that Transdanubia is the only central-european location where the non-european type of haplogroups are 0.0% (!) It is rarity in Central Europe.

Thats correct. Some Austrians even look Turanid. I have even posted some examples. In general the difference between East Austrians and Hungarians in terms of appearance is marginal. Nevertheless Turkish looking people are not highly esteemed

[Stears]

The high-tech industry (electric industry and machine building industry) was more developed in Kingdom Hungary than Austrian Empire.

[Stears]

Did you know?

The Empire built up the fourth largest machine building industry of the world (after the United States, German Empire and the United Kingdom)

reference: Max-Stephan Schulze (1996). Engineering and Economic Growth: The Development of Austria-Hungary's Machine-Building Industry in the Late Nineteenth Century. Frankfurt am Main: Peter Lang. p. 295.


Austro-hungarian machine building surpassed the Italian by 1890, and surpassed French machine-bulding by 1910. And the products were very exportable (the French and Italian were less exportable in the European markets, the KEY was the quality of machines) It was not a small FEAT!!!

[Stears]

Hello! Onychodus. What is your opinion?

[Onychodus]

Hello! Onychodus. What is your opinion?

i am not austrian

[Mans not hot]

lol

[Szegedist]

lol

lol

[Stears]

And what is Arbërori's opinion?

[Arbërori]

I don't want to ''derail'' this thread, but Hungarians are well-liked by Albanians. I've met many Hungarians, when I was visiting Kruja (Scanderbeg's castle) & they were very intrigued + you also recognized Kosovo's independence, which goes to show you're righteous people.

That's it, so sorry & carry on. :p

[Szegedist]

I don't want to ''derail'' this thread, but Hungarians are well-liked by Albanians. I've met many Hungarians, when I was visiting Kruja (Scanderbeg's castle) & they were very intrigued + you also recognized Kosovo's independence, which goes to show you're righteous people.

That's it, so sorry & carry on. :p


There were Albanians, and also Bosniaks who fought with the Rongyos Gárda to retain Western Hungary
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uprising_in_West-Hungary

[Arbërori]

There were Albanians, and also Bosniaks who fought with the Rongyos Gárda to retain Western Hungary
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uprising_in_West-Hungary

Interesting, I didn't know that, thank you for sharing. :) Our King's wife, Queen Geraldine Apponyi de Nagyaponny was of Hungarian descent & she was loved by Albanians very much:
http://s8.postimage.org/vmd378mo5/image.jpg

A beauty with a heart of gold! Her grandson, Prince Leka of Albania, accepted a medal awarded to her posthumously by the Albanian government in recognition of her charitable efforts for the Albanian people.