do hispanics feel closer to spaniards then to indigenous americans?

[Mortimer]

mestizos, or mestizos with a bit of SSA do you feel closer to indigenous american culture or to spanish culture?

[Madonna]

thats quite interesting question

I would like also know the answer from Iberians what do they think

[Bobby Six Killer]

Good thread IM.

I guess people identifies more in a very subconcient manner with the civilization closer to their self-image.

[SkyBurn]

That's an interesting question. I reckon they'd identify with the indigenous element, since that's what makes them unique. But I'd have no clue; perhaps they'd identify with the Spanish element due to cultural similarities.

[Bobby Six Killer]

That's an interesting question. I reckon they'd identify with the indigenous element, since that's what makes them unique. But I'd have no clue; perhaps they'd identify with the Spanish element due to cultural similarities.

It's an interesting observation.

However this thing is kinda unfair. Lets say an average mestizo individual 50%Euro 50%Native, would be well seen embracing his Native American Heritage, while he would be seen as a "self hater" if he or she embraces ther Euro Side.

I think the problem roots since (At least in Mexico) in the cultural aspect is heavily influenced with Pre Hispanic elements; The country name, the flag etc.

[SkyBurn]

It's an interesting observation.

However this thing is kinda unfair. Lets say an average mestizo individual 50%Euro 50%Native, would be well seen embracing his Native American Heritage, while he would be seen as a "self hater" if he or she embraces ther Euro Side.

I think the problem roots since (At least in Mexico) in the cultural aspect is heavily influenced with Pre Hispanic elements; The country name, the flag etc.

I think it is natural to identify with what makes you different. Kind of like how 1/4 black people will identify with that.

On the flipside, being proud of the Euro portion can be misconstrued as being ashamed of the native part. Whether or not that's legit is questionable, but that's public perception.

[Han Cholo]

I feel closer not to Spaniards or Native Americans but to other mixed Latin Americans. If you made me choose between some random Native Tribe and Spanish, I'd choose Spanish though. Not because of how I look like or how I identify, but because Spanish is my first language, I'm culturally closer, and if I were to suddenly wake up as a "Spaniard" the next day, it would represent the less changes in my mindset than if I were to wake up in a nomadic tribe.

I have almost 0 things in common culturally with Native Americans. I don't speak Amerindian languages, I don't believe their religions, I don't live their lifestyles, I don't look like (a real) one, I don't dress like one. This might be seen as "shame" by lots of resentful of insecure people but fuck it. It's reality and if reality has to be shameful then so be it. It doesn't affect me. Take into account that although I have admixture from local nomadic Amerindians, they always represented a very hostile element in the population who constantly raided towns, stole children and women. They also were completely exterminated/finally exterminated by 1890. There are no living Natives in my area. So in this way someone like me who has his roots in colonial era is the closest thing to a "Native" you would find.

I have respect for Native tribes and I know better than to be an usurper of their millenia traditions who I don't belong to nor want to just to appease some internet racists.

[Feral]

I'll quote myself: I don't go hanging from the tits of the motherland, neither from my indigenous roots, even though I have a great respect for them.
I've had to add that most mestizos that tend to incline for their amerindian side, they do it because some self-hating reason about their european side. You know, "europeans were and are the evil ones, amerindians are the poor-poor victims". I'd think they end up believing that because of the romanticization of the fall of amerindian cultures on modern days. I'm all about embracing our roots, but that goes both ways, and it can't be achieve with out knowing our history, and learning from it; And something that one end up learning while studying history, it's that nobody is the bad or the good.

[Baluarte]

I'd say it's not really hard to grasp:
Those that are mostly Amerindian identify more with the Pre-Hispanic past.

Those that are "balanced" between both components (or 3 when you think of people with black blood) tend to build a syncretic culture that includes everything. This is more or less the predominant mindset, and the origin of "typical Latino" things in the US like their music.

Those that are fully or mostly Spanish/Italian/Portuguese identify more with Southern Europe.


Those that seem the most interesting however, are the Hispanic/Luso Americans with North European/East Asian/Levantine blood though. Their whole identity must be quite different.

[Feral]

I'd say it's not really hard to grasp:
Those that are mostly Amerindian identify more with the Pre-Hispanic past.

Those that are "balanced" between both components (or 3 when you think of people with black blood) tend to build a syncretic culture that includes everything. This is more or less the predominant mindset, and the origin of "typical Latino" things in the US like their music.

Those that are fully or mostly Spanish/Italian/Portuguese identify more with Southern Europe.


Those that seem the most interesting however, are the Hispanic/Luso Americans with North European/East Asian/Levantine blood though. Their whole identity must be quite different.

It's hard to be mestizo and at the same time fully european. :P

[Baluarte]

It's hard to be mestizo and at the same time fully european. :P

Mestizo means 50/50 for me or at least broadly similar percentages 45/55 or 60/40

Some people can however be 85/15 or 90/10

[Anglojew]

I'd like to know if Spaniards feel closer to mixed-racial Hispanics (regardless of race) in Latin America or White North Americans (English Speakers)?

[Empecinado]

The ones with pred Spanish origin integrate much better here than the ones with pred Amerindian or Black origin. The first are culturally very similar, while the seconds have customs, superstitions and behaviours which are strange here, even being both from the same country.

[Gaita]

Good question IM!

There is no simple answer here. In my case, because I've lived the majority of my life in the US, I feel closer to a white, English speaking American, why?, because we share the same culture. When it comes to my Spanish heritage, I only find this connection with other Spaniards.

Now, I would think a Spaniard coming recently to this country would find more of a connection with a Hispanic person, because of the shared language, and to a certain extent some culture.

[Lábaru]

I'd like to know if Spaniards feel closer to mixed-racial Hispanics (regardless of race) in Latin America or White North Americans (English Speakers)?

Nótese la sutil manipulación para provocar enfrentamiento, típica actitud de quienes todos sabemos :)

[Baluarte]

Ja, en efecto.
Pero quedandonos en el hilo, me gustaría dirigir una pregunta a los amigos peninsulares: ¿A la hora de comparar hispanoamericanos, el fenotipo juega un rol de importancia para facilitar la identificación/simpatía?

Gracias.

[Gauthier]

mestizos, or mestizos with a bit of SSA do you feel closer to indigenous american culture or to spanish culture?

In my province, despite the fact that our overall culture is more European influenced, we don't give preference to our European or Amerindian ancestry. However, if I was in a situation where I had to choose a side between an European and an Amerindian influenced group I would go with the first one, it would be a lot easier for me to adapt to that particular group.

[Lábaru]

Es la actitud sana de los individuos, no el físico. No solamente entre hispano hablantes sino con todos.

[BLUEU]

As a Mestizo, I feel closer to other Latin Americans who live a Western lifestyle regardless if they look Native American, Mestizo or Criollo in phenotype. I don't feel close to the isolated Native Americans who practice their own lifeways or Spaniards.

[Aredhel]

In my case, I don't feel completely closer to spanish people since it has past some time without an important immigration from spain and hence it hasn't influenced the modern mexican culture a lot (the colonial influence came from colonial times and it's still pretty strong actually) as well as I don't feel closer to native americans to be honest, I respect their culture but I didn't grow up within their culture, I don't celebrate their traditions or believe in their religion.

If I had to choose one, I'd go more with the spanish (it's the mainsteam though). I think latin american culture is mainly spanish (not the modern spanish though) with some indigeneous elements.

I don't think the phenotype has a big influence in this topic, I've meet people predominantly native american who feel closer to the spanish and the opposite people predominantly caucasic who admire and feel closer to indigeneous people.

[pinguino]

I feel closer to Latin Americans than to Spaniards. But particularly to my own Chilean peoples. And Indigenous people in my country are our relatives, so they are closer.

[pinguino]

I'd like to know if Spaniards feel closer to mixed-racial Hispanics (regardless of race) in Latin America or White North Americans (English Speakers)?

Me, as a Latin American, feel closer to gringos than to Spaniards. It is logical, isn't? After all, Americans are people of the New World, and they also enjoy eating corn and potatoes. Unlike Europeans that only eat pork.

[B01AB20]

Me, as a Latin American, feel closer to gringos than to Spaniards. It is logical, isn't? After all, Americans are people of the New World, and they also enjoy eating corn and potatoes. Unlike Europeans that only eat pork.

oh my god! finally!!!

at last a post of pinguino which makes some sense!! ;););)

yes pinguino yes, it's absolutely logical.

[Armand_Duval]

Me, as a Latin American, feel closer to gringos than to Spaniards. It is logical, isn't? After all, Americans are people of the New World, and they also enjoy eating corn and potatoes. Unlike Europeans that only eat pork.


Estaria bueno saber si los gringos se sienten cercanos a ti o a los chilenos....creo imaginar a ciencia cierta que pensarian de esto.


Yo me siento cercano a los españoles, pero mas a otros latinoamericanos mas o menos con mi mismo background.

Para los indigenas somos solo unos "blancos" o "gueros" mas del monton y se echarian a reir si nos manifestaramos como parte de su cultura. Respeto y admiro profundamente todas las etnias indigenas sus tradiciones y cultura pero no podria identificarme con un huichol o un tarahumara, para ellos somos ajenos completamente, yo ya lo he vivido.

[American_Hispanist]

I quote Hasol:

I feel closer not to Spaniards or Native Americans but to other mixed Latin Americans. If you made me choose between some random Native Tribe and Spanish, I'd choose Spanish though. Not because of how I look like or how I identify, but because Spanish is my first language, I'm culturally closer, and if I were to suddenly wake up as a "Spaniard" the next day, it would represent the less changes in my mindset than if I were to wake up in a nomadic tribe.

I have almost 0 things in common culturally with Native Americans. I don't speak Amerindian languages, I don't believe their religions, I don't live their lifestyles, I don't look like (a real) one, I don't dress like one. This might be seen as "shame" by lots of resentful of insecure people but fuck it. It's reality and if reality has to be shameful then so be it. It doesn't affect me. Take into account that although I have admixture from local nomadic Amerindians, they always represented a very hostile element in the population who constantly raided towns, stole children and women. They also were completely exterminated/finally exterminated by 1890. There are no living Natives in my area. So in this way someone like me who has his roots in colonial era is the closest thing to a "Native" you would find.

I have respect for Native tribes and I know better than to be an usurper of their millenia traditions who I don't belong to nor want to just to appease some internet racists.

Culturally, if its between Spaniards and natives, obviously Spaniards because I am Catholic, I have Hispanic values, and my native language is Spanish. However, overall, I feel closer to other Mexicans and a few other Latin Americans (not many, but some, I feel more closer to Mexicans). But, since I am an Hispanist, I strongly identify with Hispanic culture (new world Hispanic culture, not Iberian-Hispanic) and values, and I don't identify with Amerindians. I respect Amerindians and their traditions, as my family has lived in proximity to them for countless generations and I know they are different to me (I acknowledge that, unlike some insecure people who are even on this forum). I will say this over and over again, as it's the truth and like Hasol, I will not change my words/ideals just to appease some morons who create fantasies.

[Han Cholo]

Estaria bueno saber si los gringos se sienten cercanos a ti o a los chilenos....creo imaginar a ciencia cierta que pensarian de esto.

LOL, esto es más que obvio. Ni yo que vivo al lado de los gringos me siento cercano a ellos, y al parecer ni los Mexican Americans (aunque muchos padecen patologías similares a las de sus nuevos compatriotas anglosajones.)



Yo me siento cercano a los españoles, pero mas a otros latinoamericanos mas o menos con mi mismo background.

Para los indigenas somos solo unos "blancos" o "gueros" mas del monton y se echarian a reir si nos manifestaramos como parte de su cultura. Respeto y admiro profundamente todas las etnias indigenas sus tradiciones y cultura pero no podria identificarme con un huichol o un tarahumara, para ellos somos agenos completamente, yo ya lo he vivido.

Sí, la neta muchos de los indígenas que viven en las ciudades sí tienen bastantes razgos culturales en común con nosotros los Mestizos e incluso "Blancos", pero eso es influencia de la cultura "mainstream" Mexicana. El espíritu central de sus culturas es bastante distinto al nuestro, muchos sólo se identifican como Mexicanos muy secundariamente. Uno que estaba en la primaria por ejemplo, no cantaba el himno nacional. Me imagino que en las montañas de Chiapas no deben de tener nada en común culturalmente con nosotros.

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

they relate to spain's OLD ways, but not modern way.

They have lots related to the classical spain and classical spanish music, thinking and dress, but nothing at all with modern spain, there was a huge divide time period.

they may look at the old ways of spain with admiration but modern spanish are strangers and they try to be more like Americans from USA than spaniards who are fucked .. and not world leaders and are only good at sports.

Sure they like spanish sports, but in general they do not consider themselves spaniards, but do feel subconciously like they share a similar passed history with spain in culture which they do

[Lábaru]

Yo me pregunto como se puede tener cosas de la España antigua y no tener nada que ver con la España moderna, ¿es que la España moderna no tiene nada de la antigua?.

[Han Cholo]

Yo me pregunto como se puede tener cosas de la España antigua y no tener nada que ver con la España moderna, ¿es que la España moderna no tiene nada de la antigua?.

La forma correcta de decirlo sería que tal vez no hemos evolucionado exactamente hacia el mismo rumbo en estos 200 años de separación.

[Querubín]

La forma correcta de decirlo sería que tal vez no hemos evolucionado exactamente hacia el mismo rumbo en estos 200 años de separación.

Pero hay que añadir un elemento mas. No se ha tratado de una evolución completamente diferente. Por ejemplo, las academias de la lengua han dado una cierta unidad al lenguaje y se un han influido unas a otras sin evitar la evolución regional o local. Puede decirse que nuestra evolución ha sido en lineas generales homogénea en comparación con la de UK y sus antiguas colonias. Es algo complejo de explicar y de entender, pero esta influencia reciproca entre España y sus antiguas colonias esta mas viva que nunca. A las academias de la lengua como elementos homogeneizadores cada vez mas se suman otros productos culturales que ayudan a que a pesar de que existan evoluciones locales tendentes a diferenciar, siga habiendo un marco cultural común que evoluciona conjuntamente a ambos lados del charco

[Baluarte]

Pero hay que añadir un elemento mas. No se ha tratado de una evolución completamente diferente. Por ejemplo, las academias de la lengua han dado una cierta unidad al lenguaje y se un han influido unas a otras sin evitar la evolución regional o local. Puede decirse que nuestra evolución ha sido en lineas generales homogénea en comparación con la de UK y sus antiguas colonias. Es algo complejo de explicar y de entender, pero esta influencia reciproca entre España y sus antiguas colonias esta mas viva que nunca. A las academias de la lengua como elementos homogeneizadores cada vez mas se suman otros productos culturales que ayudan a que a pesar de que existan evoluciones locales tendentes a diferenciar, siga habiendo un marco cultural común que evoluciona conjuntamente a ambos lados del charco

Esto es totalmente cierto.

El inglés británico, el inglés estadounidense y el inglés de las otras ex-colonias británicas en ocasiones puede tener diferencias muy significativas.
Lo mismo sucede entre el Portugués peninsular y el de Brasil, o entre el francés que se habla cotidianamente en París y aquel que se practica en Montreal.

Pocas personas realmente aprecian realmente la ventaja que tenemos los hispanófonos de poder beneficiarnos de una institución como la Real Academia Española, que me permito recordar debe mucho a dos dramaturgos colombianos: Miguel Antonio Caro y Rufino José Cuervo.


Cuervo se dedicó, por un corto tiempo, a la enseñanza. Fue catedrático de latín en el Colegio del Rosario, entre 1867 y 1868, y en el Seminario Conciliar de Bogotá enseñó latín y griego en 1868; en 1870 se dedicó a la latinidad, y dejó la enseñanza. En estos años escribió, junto a Miguel Antonio Caro, el texto original de la Gramática de la lengua latina para el uso de los que hablan castellano, en la que aparecen los resultados de las investigaciones llevadas a cabo hasta entonces por los filólogos más destacados de la época; por medio de la comparación entre las modalidades del castellano y el latín, y el uso continuo de ejemplos tomados de los escritores más notables, la Gramática latina de Caro y Cuervo sienta las bases de la moderna lingüística, empleando un método que se adelanta a los mejores de hoy. Según Fernando Antonio Martínez, este trabajo fue considerado por la Real Academia Española una obra magistral y la mejor de su género escrita en castellano. Caro y Cuervo, las dos figuras más notables de la filología, aparecen aquí unidas en el plan pero distanciadas en el desarrollo. Según Martínez, la analogía, parte que correspondía tratar a Cuervo, fue considerada como un análisis sagaz; la sintaxis, tratada por Caro, una síntesis completa. Así, la Gramática latina revela el trabajo conjunto de un erudito de la lengua y un filósofo del idioma.

[B01AB20]

El primer libro 'gordo' que leí fue 100 años de soledad de García Márquez, era jovencito y quedé enganchado al libro hasta acabarlo.

La experiencia fue buena y le tomé el gusto a la literatura; no es que lea mucha literarura ahora, pero sin esa primera experiencia satisfactoria puede que ahora no leyera otra cosa que periódicos y manuales técnicos de diverso pelaje, además de todas la burradas que se encuentra uno por estos foros :D

[pinguino]

Estaria bueno saber si los gringos se sienten cercanos a ti o a los chilenos....creo imaginar a ciencia cierta que pensarian de esto.

Yo entiendo tu postura, pero es que tienes a los gringos al lado. Me acuerdo de inmediato lo que dijo Porfirio Diaz (creo) Pobre México, tan lejos del cielo y tan cerca de los Estados Unidos.

Para nosotros, los chilenos, los gringos en general son seres lejanos. Algo así como marcianos en platillos voladores. Sin embargo, sabemos que los gringos (ingleses, estadounidenses, canadienses) miran nuestro país con cierta simpatía.

En resumen, para nosotros desde aquí, todos los extranjeros de fuera de nuestra región son igual de exóticos y distantes. Y el mito de nuestras raíces españolas e italianas no soporta el menor examen, en particular cuando se deporta a nuestros turistas de aquellos lugares.

[Silver_Shadow]

That is an interesting question. For me, I would have to say neither as I feel closer to Mestizos, naturally. I acknowledge both my Spanish and Amerindian ancestry and know that those two mixing is what created me so it's not like I'm a self hater, but acknowledging those ancestries is as far as it goes for me. I consider myself (and Mestizos) a unique person (people) who is (are) distinct from the two populations that created me (us Mestizos).

[Han Cholo]

That is an interesting question. For me, I would have to say neither as I feel closer to Mestizos, naturally. I acknowledge both my Spanish and Amerindian ancestry and know that those two mixing is what created me so it's not like I'm a self hater, but acknowledging those ancestries is as far as it goes for me. I consider myself (and Mestizos) a unique person (people) who is (are) distinct from the two populations that created me (us Mestizos).

I think the same as well :thumbs and also not all Mestizos are the same.

[Black Sun Dimension]

I find it fascinating that there is so much variety in the mindset of Latin Americans, regardless of their race. It's great that there are Amerindians, Europeans and Mestizos (whatever the %) taking interest in each other's culture. But ultimately the Spanish culture prevailed in the region, which is why Latin America is mostly "westernized" instead of "indianized". So it is rare to find non-pure Amerindians, born in a western society, feeling closer to their Amerindian brethren than to Spaniards, culturally speaking. Like Hasol said, if you take two random Latin Americans and drop one in Spain and the other in an amazonian tribe, the later would feel like a total stranger, while the former wouldn't experience such a stark cultural shock.

Personally I just feel closer to other city-dwelling Latin Americans; then to Spaniards and lastly to pure natives.

[Mortimer]

yes it makes completely sense that latin americans feel closer to spaniards because of modern City culture and langauge then to amerindian tribes who live a more simple life still.

[Radamanthys]

Yo siento que tengo cero conexión o lazos con los aborígenes de aquí

[pinguino]

Yo me pregunto como se puede tener cosas de la España antigua y no tener nada que ver con la España moderna, ¿es que la España moderna no tiene nada de la antigua?.

Si tiene sentido. Gran parte de nuestros antepasados llegaron de la España antigua, y unos cuantos hasta mediados del siglo XIX. Después, cada uno ha seguido su propio camino. Nosotros no descendemos de la España moderna sino de la arcaica, de hace cientos de años atrás. Esa es la España que todavía queremos. En cuanto a la moderna, no es que la odiemos, pero sentimos que a veces la gente de la península nos mira en menos.

[TheWolf97]

Diria que de los españoles por la cuestion del idioma y lo cultural, pero de ahi siento que no encajaria en ninguno de los dos bandos

[Annie999]

By "hispanic" you mean mestizos? Because it makes no sense for white or black latins to identify with natives.

[SilverKnight]

By "hispanic" you mean mestizos? Because it makes no sense for white or black latins to identify with natives.

Mortimer is not very knowledgeable with the terminology on the matter. I think he mean exactly that --> Mestizos.

[Norway12]

to indigenous americans

[Laredo]

I would probably get lots of hate for saying because It would not fit their hatred agenda of some members have against me, but I feel closer to Spaniards In absolutely everything at least culturally I've seen Indigenous mexicans In Mexico living In a very primitive way living In the streets woman with up to 10 children all of them living In the streets begging /asking for money. I mean how Is this act even allowed In Latin America? this should be completely illegal and fined or send to jail for the huge Inresponsability some Indigenous communities have.


Also I don't speak an indigenous dialect.

[Laredo]

Mortimer is not very knowledgeable with the terminology on the matter. I think he mean exactly that --> Mestizos.

I think that's Inrevelant, that's like saying mulatto should feel closer to African blacks despite having a different culture and life style etc.

[Incal]

None really, when I was a kid and had never traveled I thought it had to be spaniards but based on my real life experience I'd say I feel closer to Italians.

[Mixdguy17]

Depends on the hispanic, but I would bet the average latino will feel closer to the spanish, just based on language and culture alone.

[Etelfrido]

None really, when I was a kid and had never traveled I thought it had to be spaniards but based on my real life experience I'd say I feel closer to Italians.
That's curious! Which differences between Spaniards and Italians were responsible for that?

[Tsuin]

Neither if I'm being completely honest. I'm an American who just happens to descend from both Spaniards and Indigenous Mexicans

[Southern Farmer]

To Spaniards. Even though I've got amerindian ancestry, for the last two century my ancestors of colonial extraction were "hispanicized" from a cultural point of view.

[Incal]

That's curious! Which differences between Spaniards and Italians were responsible for that?

I think I've already shared that with Andullero: we are more party going, more friendly and social... Spaniards are kinda weird, suspicious and hermetic.

[Marlène P. López]

Many Mexicans ignore/deny the indigenous aspects of our culture and ancestry. We take pride in speaking Spanish, Christianity, and love anything Eurocentric.

[axel.aleman]

Spaniards for obvious reasons

[SilverKnight]

I think that's Inrevelant, that's like saying mulatto should feel closer to African blacks despite having a different culture and life style etc.

You're putting words into my month, I never meant to say that.