Ethnogenesis in Argentina

[Wild North]

Argentina is an interesting country.. However it´s about the ethnogenesis of the Argentine people. If this is correct, originally they were mestizo or castizo Gauchos (cowboys) and descendants of more or less unmixed Spaniards (criolos), that later became very mixed with European immigrants (mainly Italians and Spaniards). This is as far as I´ve read..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_people

[Tico4]

Their native blood is underestimated.

[Baluarte]

If you take the whole population of Argentina, mix it, and get an average person, he will most likely be a castizo 75% European.
Some groups of people are completely unmixed, some others are mestizoid.

But it is a much whiter than the average Hispanic American country.

[Gauthier]

Argentina is an interesting country.. However it´s about the ethnogenesis of the Argentine people. If this is correct, originally they were mestizo or castizo Gauchos (cowboys) and descendants of more or less unmixed Spaniards (criolos), that later became very mixed with European immigrants (mainly Italians and Spaniards). This is as far as I´ve read..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_people

This can probably be applied to the capital city, Buenos Aires and the outskirts, but outside of that circle there is an important number of Mestizos (harnizos & castizos for the most part).

Here are some results of Argentinians who have taken the 23andMe dna test:


100% Euro.
100% Euro.
100% Euro.
99% Euro, 1% Amerind.
99% Euro, 1% Amerind.
99% Euro, 1% Afro.
99% Euro, 1% Amerind.
98% Euro, 2% Amerind.
98% Euro, 1% Afro, 1% Amerind.
98% Euro, 1% Afro, 1% Amerind.
97% Euro, 3% Amerind.
95% Euro, 3% Afro, 2% Amerind.
91% Euro, 7% Amerind, 2% Afro.
90% Euro, 10% Amerind.
90% Euro, 8% Amerind, 2% Afro.
88% Euro, 11% Amerind, 1% Afro.
87% Euro, 13% Amerind, 1% Afro.
86% Euro, 13% Amerind, 1% Afro.
85% Euro, 12% Amerind, 3% Afro.
83% Euro, 17% Amerind.
80% Euro, 19% Amerind, 1% Afro.
75% Euro, 23% Amerind, 3% Afro.
73% Euro, 25% Amerind, 2% Afro.

Please note that 23andme underestimated the amerindian component in many cases by up to 14%.

[BLUEU]

The average Argentine is 78% European according to the latest Genetic study.

[Baluarte]

The average Argentine is 78% European according to the latest Genetic study.


Kk, only screwed up by 3%

[BLUEU]

Here's the study.
Abstract
Argentine population genetic structure was examined using a set of 78 ancestry informative markers (AIMs) to assess the contributions of European, Amerindian, and African ancestry in 94 individuals members of this population. Using the Bayesian clustering algorithm STRUCTURE, the mean European contribution was 78%, the Amerindian contribution was 19.4%, and the African contribution was 2.5%. Similar results were found using weighted least mean square method: European, 80.2%; Amerindian, 18.1%; and African, 1.7%. Consistent with previous studies the current results showed very few individuals (four of 94) with greater than 10% African admixture. Notably, when individual admixture was examined, the Amerindian and European admixture showed a very large variance and individual Amerindian contribution ranged from 1.5 to 84.5% in the 94 individual Argentine subjects. These results indicate that admixture must be considered when clinical epidemiology or case control genetic analyses are studied in this population. Moreover, the current study provides a set of informative SNPs that can be used to ascertain or control for this potentially hidden stratification. In addition, the large variance in admixture proportions in individual Argentine subjects shown by this study suggests that this population is appropriate for future admixture mapping studies. Am J Phys Anthropol, 2007. © 2006 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.20534/abstract

[perikolez]

If you take the whole population of Argentina, mix it, and get an average person, he will most likely be a castizo 75% European.
Some groups of people are completely unmixed, some others are mestizoid.

But it is a much whiter than the average Hispanic American country.


In my opinion pampean provinces(with the exception of Rosario and Buenos Aires cities) are really mostly white (not castizo). They are mainly of XXth european inmigrant origin and not very mixed. The rest of Argentina (Northern Argentina, Patagonia, Cuyo) is mainly colonial mestizo or harnizo .Finally Salta and Jujuy provinces are similar to Bolivia or Ecuador, but with many more whites.

[mr. logan]

In my opinion pampean provinces(with the exception of Rosario and Buenos Aires cities) are really mostly white (not castizo). They are mainly of XXth european inmigrant origin and not very mixed. The rest of Argentina (Northern Argentina, Patagonia, Cuyo) is mainly colonial mestizo or harnizo .Finally Salta and Jujuy provinces are similar to Bolivia or Ecuador, but with many more whites.

I think you`re accurate. For any doubts cleared, just watch Argentinean TV online and check the racial types that appear. It`s almost 100% European.

[Han Cholo]

I think you`re accurate. For any doubts cleared, just watch Argentinean TV online and check the racial types that appear. It`s almost 100% European.

:picard1::picard1::picard1:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUUrW7xJSw4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyXfPiBhH0k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOA0QC90oAQ

Blanquísimos cheeeeeee :picard2:

[2012JD]

:picard1::picard1::picard1:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUUrW7xJSw4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyXfPiBhH0k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOA0QC90oAQ

Blanquísimos cheeeeeee :picard2:

I just saw the whole video of la Cumbia de Los trapos haha!!

[Wild North]

First, what does harnizo mean?

Some years ago I met a girl from Argentina, and she told me that the indigenous people of the Pampas were relatively tall and fair, and had a look close to the "European" :eek::confused:, is that true or false?

[BLUEU]

An Harnizo is a 62.5%(5/8) European and 37.5%(3/8) Native American person.

[Baluarte]

Some years ago I met a girl from Argentina, and she told me that the indigenous people of the Pampas were relatively tall and fair, and had a look close to the "European" :eek::confused:, is that true or false?

She's full of shit.

[pinguino]

Their native blood is underestimated.
More than 50% of Argentinean mtDNA is native.

[pinguino]

First, what does harnizo mean?

Some years ago I met a girl from Argentina, and she told me that the indigenous people of the Pampas were relatively tall and fair, and had a look close to the "European" :eek::confused:, is that true or false?

That's true. Pehuenches and Patagones were taller than Europeans in average. But don't forget Europeans of those times were dwarfs.

[mr. logan]

the people in those videos are the people of Gran Buenos Aires mainly, people who arrive to the capital from the provinces and stay living in the most outer part of the city. They don´t represent average Buenos Aires, which nucleates half the population of the country.
I understand the pain of these mestizos here in the forum. Misery loves company. That empty and desperate state of mind can become Europe if halfbreeding takes place. Hopefully, it will never.

[pinguino]

the people in those videos are the people of Gran Buenos Aires mainly, people who arrive to the capital from the provinces and stay living in the most outer part of the city. They don´t represent average Buenos Aires, which nucleates half the population of the country.
I understand the pain of these mestizos here in the forum. Misery loves company. That empty and desperate state of mind can become Europe if halfbreeding takes place. Hopefully, it will never.

Don't be silly. Misery is the United States. A rich country with a third of its population in poverty. A rich country that sacrifice its youth to the corporate interest. That's misery.

[Han Cholo]

Don't be silly. Misery is the United States. A rich country with a third of its population in poverty. A rich country that sacrifice its youth to the corporate interest. That's misery.

He's a Uruguayan that just got banned and returned. I bet he looks like Maradonna.


the people in those videos are the people of Gran Buenos Aires mainly, people who arrive to the capital from the provinces and stay living in the most outer part of the city. They don´t represent average Buenos Aires, which nucleates half the population of the country.

Of course they do. Are you saying these people are not Argentine? Are you saying that if I go to Buenos Aires I am not going to see people looking like that? Are you saying the whole Argentine territory (which is the biggest in Spanish America) is only inhabitated by white people? Argentina is not just Buenos Aires.



I understand the pain of these mestizos here in the forum. Misery loves company. That empty and desperate state of mind can become Europe if halfbreeding takes place. Hopefully, it will never.

Actually I understand your pain. You must have confusion as you come from a tiny country of 8 millions with a very mixed population of Mestizos buried within layers of poor European immigrants creating a confused identity, with significant negroid minorities and denying the true core of the country. When I see people like you I am glad my country did not receive recent immigrants from European countries at war that think they're enacted to act unreal just because they have 2 generations living in the country.

Mass immigration always damages the native inhabitants and their dynamics of life/identity.

[pinguino]

He's a Uruguayan that just got banned and returned. I bet he looks like Maradonna.

Is highly probable. Many Uruguayans look like Maradonna.

[Querubín]

Mejor un mestizo orgulloso de sus raíces que un wannabe. A los primeros los respeto profundamente pq las raíces nos vienen dadas y no son escogidas y lo único que nos queda es respetarlas y honrarlas pq para enterder lo que somos hay que saber de donde venimos. Los segundo me parece que muestran una profunda crisis de identidad ya sea individual o colectiva. Una crisis de identidad oculta que quien la padece desconoce pero que se muestra de forma subconsciente. Si la conoces no hay problema pq viene dada por circunstancias externas. De este modo, no hay complejo, solamente análisis critico sobre la identidad social colectiva del lugar al que pertenece, que produce un desarraigo

[perikolez]

:picard1::picard1::picard1:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUUrW7xJSw4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyXfPiBhH0k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOA0QC90oAQ

Blanquísimos cheeeeeee :picard2:

De la misma manera de que los argentinos se inventan historias de que descienden todos de inmigrantes italianos, tu sobrevaloras lo mestizo. El primer video es de gente barriobajera de Buenos Aires provenientes del interior de Argentina, y por tanto mestizos. El segundo video es de Santiago del Estero que esta en el noroeste argentino, y donde tranquilamente el 80% son mestizos. El tercer video es de una carrera ciclista que no se donde ves la gran cantidad de mestizos , porque apenas hay planos del publico. Ademas, la mayoria de los ciclistas de Argentina son de provincias como San Luis , o Salta .

En Argentina hay muchos mestizos (quizas la mayoria) pero tu desprecias una buena parte de la poblacion de clase media de toda Argentina que son blancos puros, y poblacion del interior de la provincia de Buenos Aires, Santa fe, Cordoba ,que tambien son blancos puros, y donde reside mucha poblacion.

[pinguino]

Blancos puros? Hay muchos blancos en Argentina, pero muy pocos tienen cara de gringo.

[Baluarte]

Blancos puros? Hay muchos blancos en Argentina, pero muy pocos tienen cara de gringo.

¿"Gringo" siendo Anglo/Germano?

Hay un cierto número de blancos de origen alemán en Argentina.

Estilo Ingrid Grudke:
http://robertoramasso.com/contrataciones/contratacion-ingrid-grudke.jpg

Aquellos que descienden de italianos, españoles o portugueses se ven Mediterráneos. Bastante sencillo realmente.

De nuevo, Argentina es un "país castizo" con ciertos sectores blancos y ciertos sectores mestizos.

[perikolez]

¿"Gringo" siendo Anglo/Germano?



De nuevo, Argentina es un "país castizo" con ciertos sectores blancos y ciertos sectores mestizos.

Argentina no es un pais castizo, sino que es un pais con una amplia clase media fenotipicamente hablando mayoritariamente "blanca", y una amplia clase baja mayoritariamente mestiza. Decir que Argentina es castiza es como decir que Carolina del Norte es mayoritariamente cuarteron porque la media entre los blancos , y los "negros" de Carolina del Norte es 75% blanco, y 25% negro, cuando en Carolina del norte los blancos son casi puros , y los negros probablemente sean mas de un 60% negros. Lo mismo se puede aplicar en Argentina donde se pueden encontrar muchos mas "blancos" y muchos mas "mestizos" y no tantos castizos. La media entre un 50% de poblacion blanca y un 50% de poblacion mestiza sale castizo, pero decir que en esa poblacion lo que mas te vas a encontrar son castizos es irreal.

[Baluarte]

Argentina no es un pais castizo, sino que es un pais con una amplia clase media fenotipicamente hablando mayoritariamente "blanca", y una amplia clase baja mayoritariamente mestiza. Decir que Argentina es castiza es como decir que Carolina del Norte es mayoritariamente cuarteron porque la media entre los blancos , y los "negros" de Carolina del Norte es 75% blanco, y 25% negro, cuando en Carolina del norte los blancos son casi puros , y los negros probablemente sean mas de un 60% negros. Lo mismo se puede aplicar en Argentina donde se pueden encontrar muchos mas "blancos" y muchos mas "mestizos" y no tantos castizos. La media entre un 50% de poblacion blanca y un 50% de poblacion mestiza sale castizo, pero decir que en esa poblacion lo que mas te vas a encontrar son castizos es irreal.


De acuerdo.
Corrección justa. Me disculpo por la imprecisión.


Post-data: Aún espero tu opinión ponderada en mi tema de fenotipo :)

[pinguino]

Argentina no es un pais castizo, sino que es un pais con una amplia clase media fenotipicamente hablando mayoritariamente "blanca", y una amplia clase baja mayoritariamente mestiza.

Siguen con la misma idiotez de siempre. Recuerden que aquí habemos quienes vivimos al lado de Argentina, y los vemos a cada rato. Esa diferencia de castas entre blancos puros de clase alta y mestizos de clase baja es idiota. Nunca fue así y ahora tampoco lo es. Hay muchos blancos argentinos pobres viviendo en casuchas de cartón, y también hay muchos mestizos con plata.

Por favor, bajate de la nube.

[perikolez]

Siguen con la misma idiotez de siempre. Recuerden que aquí habemos quienes vivimos al lado de Argentina, y los vemos a cada rato. Esa diferencia de castas entre blancos puros de clase alta y mestizos de clase baja es idiota. Nunca fue así y ahora tampoco lo es. Hay muchos blancos argentinos pobres viviendo en casuchas de cartón, y también hay muchos mestizos con plata.

Por favor, bajate de la nube.

No niego que haya mestizos argentinos con dinero , y blancos argentinos pobres(estos son bastante abundantes), pero en general los blancos son de clase media, y los mestizos son de clase baja. De hecho, probablemente la clase media argentina sea mas blanca que la alta , porque buena parte de la clase alta son descendientes de las familias que mandaban durante la era colonial, y con mestizaje de la epoca de la colonia.

[pinguino]

No niego que haya mestizos argentinos con dinero , y blancos argentinos pobres(estos son bastante abundantes), pero en general los blancos son de clase media, y los mestizos son de clase baja. De hecho, probablemente la clase media argentina sea mas blanca que la alta , porque buena parte de la clase alta son descendientes de las familias que mandaban durante la era colonial, y con mestizaje de la epoca de la colonia.

Ahi te equivocas. La clase alta colonial fue bastante más mezclada que hoy. Eso fue antes del "blanquamiento".

¿Qué fue el blanqueamiento? La importación de gran número de inmigrantes euro peos cuyo objetivo fue "mejorar" la raza, o "aclararla". Al final, no resultó, pues como los blancos son tan racistas y tienden a aparearse entre ellos, y tienen poquitos hijos, les queda muy poco tiempo de vida en Latinoamérica.

[perikolez]

Ahi te equivocas. La clase alta colonial fue bastante más mezclada que hoy. Eso fue antes del "blanquamiento".



Hay muchos gobernadores o gente que han sido gobernadores de provincias del interior , y cuyas familias han controlado esas provincias durante años y que provienen de esa clase alta colonial. Incluso una buena parte de la poblacion pseudoblanca de clase media de provincias del norte como Tucuman, Catamarca o Santiago del Estero son fundamentalmente de origen colonial.

[Wild North]

She's full of shit.

Maybe she was influenced by these mythical tales about "white Indians".


That's true. Pehuenches and Patagones were taller than Europeans in average. But don't forget Europeans of those times were dwarfs.

It may depends on what Europeans. Perhaps Spaniards at the time. :p