Most difficult language/s that you've learned, or have tried to learn.

[Treffie]

I've always been interested in learning other languages, either for practical uses or just for the hell of it, so was wondering what other members have experienced.

For me the most difficult language that I've tried to learn is Basque/Euskara, I'm currently learning the standardised form, Batua. At first it didn't make much sense - the verb is at the end of the sentence and everything is agglutinated. :confused: Now though, it makes sense but my Basque/Bilbao accent is still dreadful :D One thing I must say is that it really gets those dying brain cells moving.

I'd really like to learn Finnish, but the thought of trying to learn all 16 tenses (?) scares me a bit.:(

[Tabiti]

German and Russian grammar.

[Amarantine]

French writing, grammer is almost identical with Italian , for me a bit hader but not too much. Writing is soooo complicated.

And German, everything...

[Amarantine]

German and Russian grammar.

Hey why? It is almost the same as our?! Is Bulgarian grammar simplier?

[Treffie]

French writing, grammer is almost identical with Italian , for me a bit hader but not too much. Writing is soooo complicated.

And German, everything...

I found French quite easy to learn, but it may have been because I was 7 when I started to learn it. I never took German in school, but my schoolmates used to tell me that it was quite difficult.

[Amarantine]

I found French quite easy to learn, but it may have been because I was 7 when I started to learn it. I never took German in school, but my schoolmates used to tell me that it was quite difficult.

I'm in "french" environment from 90's and still couldn't accept that crazy language. I have a blokade, that's for sure! May be to start with Chinese:D

[Psychonaut]

Easy: Chinese :D

The grammar is simple enough and the complete lack of verb conjugations is very nice, but even after five years working as a linguist I'm still shaky with the orthography. It's the single most difficult and retarded writing system on the planet.

[NSFreja]

I really don't think any languages are hard to learn, it is just a matter of motivation.

[Treffie]

I'm in "french" environment from 90's and still couldn't accept that crazy language. I have a blokade, that's for sure! May be to start with Chinese:D

Funny you should say Chinese, I'd like to know what the views are from our Chinese linguist, Psychonaut. *bows down* :D

Edit, I see you've snuck in when I was posting.

[Amarantine]

Easy: Chinese :D

The grammar is simple enough and the complete lack of verb conjugations is very nice, but even after five years working as a linguist I'm still shaky with the orthography. It's the single most difficult and retarded writing system on the planet.

harakiri:D (it's japanese I think, but who cares:P)

[Amarantine]

I really don't think any languages are hard to learn, it is just a matter of motivation.


This is a true!

[Treffie]

Easy: Chinese :D

The grammar is simple enough and the complete lack of verb conjugations is very nice, but even after five years working as a linguist I'm still shaky with the orthography. It's the single most difficult and retarded writing system on the planet.

What about intonation? I understand that if you say something using the incorrect intonation, the word/sentence means something completely different?

[Tabiti]

Hey why? It is almost the same as our?! Is Bulgarian grammar simplier?
Bulgarian grammar is different from other Slavic grammars. Some consider it even more difficult and it's true after I don't know it well myself.

[Psychonaut]

What about intonation? I understand that if you say something using the incorrect intonation, the word/sentence means something completely different?

This is true, for example the syllable "ma" can have quite a few meaning depending on the tone:

妈 mā (high tone) means "mother"
马 mǎ (dipping tone) means "horse"
骂 mà (falling tone) meanse "to curse"
麻 má (rising tone) means "hemp"
吗 ma (neutral tone) is a particle that indicates a question

So, you could say:

妈骂马吗?

Which would sound like:

Mā mà mǎ ma?

Meaning, "did mom curse the horse?" To a speaker of a non-tonal language it would probably just sound like "ma ma ma ma," and the tonal variations would be lost. But in Chinese, you're right, they're absolutely essential to the meaning of each and every syllable.

[Tabiti]

Heard that Mandarin Chinese is one of the hardest languages in the world.

[Loyalist]

That would be Gaelic; the pronunciation totally escapes me, so picking up the grammar when I can't even read and recite it properly isn't going to happen. I still want to learn, but it's on indefinite hiatus.

I selected Latin as an elective at school this coming year, and I have no prior exposure to it, so we'll see how that goes in a few weeks. ;)

[Treffie]

This is true, for example the syllable "ma" can have quite a few meaning depending on the tone:

妈 mā (high tone) means "mother"
马 mǎ (dipping tone) means "horse"
骂 mà (falling tone) meanse "to curse"
麻 má (rising tone) means "hemp"
吗 ma (neutral tone) is a particle that indicates a question

So, you could say:

妈骂马吗?

Which would sound like:

Mā mà mǎ ma?

Meaning, "did mom curse the horse?" To a speaker of a non-tonal language it would probably just sound like "ma ma ma ma," and the tonal variations would be lost. But in Chinese, you're right, they're absolutely essential to the meaning of each and every syllable.

Oh dear, I don't think I'll be learning Chinese in this lifetime anyway. I can't get my throat to practice all those rises and falls, especially in a single sentence.:(

[Treffie]

That would be Gaelic; the pronunciation totally escapes me, so picking up the grammar when I can't even read and recite it properly isn't going to happen. I still want to learn, but it's on indefinite hiatus.


The most difficult thing about Gaelic and the other Celtic languages is the VSO word order and some other grammatical differences. I think the secret is to try to`think` in another language.

[Liffrea]

I have never really been any good at learning languages and I tend to view them on the basis of point rather that knowledge acquired for the sake of it.

I have been learning Old English on and off, but I'm not consistant with it to make much progress, I would like to read sources in the original as translation invariably alters it to some extent.

Other than that I like to hear Gaelic, especially sung.

[Poltergeist]

Finnish!

It may come as surprise to some, because all books dealing with linguistics say Finnish and Hungarian are related as members of the Finno-Ugric family of languages, so that learning Finnish for a Hungarian (or vice versa) should be easy. But that is not so. There are absolutely no lexical similarities that could help in the process of learning (some supposed common lexical heritage of Finnish and Hungarian amounts to maximum 200 words which sound "alike" in a way, which doesn't mean they are immediately recognizable). There is some typological affinity (agglutinative langauges), but that hardly helps in the process of learning. Finnish grammar is vastly more complicated than the Hungarian one, with many more exceptions.

Once I attended a course of Finnish for four months, but forgot everything in the meantime.

[Ulf]

German and PA Deitsch, just because there's not much in the way of material. I've asked my grandfather to teach me but he says he can't read it. :rolleyes2: I'm able to understand some of what he says but often there's just a whole lot I don't get.

Knowing basic German has also hindered my ability to learn Deitsch as they're quite different from eachother at times.

[HawkR]

Mandarin. I tried, failed, and gave up. But when I do have time I might want to learn it, but it's hard.

I've also seen a little on kantochinese but I have no idea what the "drawings" are supposed to mean, and besides, chinese do have 27 words for sword:p


I've also tried to learn German but it wasn't as interesting as I'd hoped for, so next language will be Old Norse, and here I will not fail, I won't allow it:p

[Absinthe]

I have always thought of french grammar to be the harder to learn and I managed to get along with finnish and swedish, even ancient sanskrit! but not with french. :o

[Vulpix]

French grammar isn't too hard. German grammar is surely harder.

[Psychonaut]

mandarin. I tried, failed, and gave up. But when i do have time i might want to learn it, but it's hard.

你记不记得怎么用中文?

[HawkR]

你记不记得怎么用中文?

Do you understand what this means? Is it?:p

[Poltergeist]

你记不记得怎么用中文?

我聽不懂

[Äike]

The most difficult language that I have learned is Russian.

[Psychonaut]

Do you understand what this means? Is it?:p

Close, "Nǐ jì bù jìde zěnme yòng zhōngwén?"
"Do you remember how to use Chinese?"


我聽不懂

LOL!

[Mesrine]

German, because of the declensions.

[Comte Arnau]

Non-European: Mandarin.
European: Basque.

[Psychonaut]

non-european: Mandarin.

你也能用普通话啊? 你为什么决定学习中文?

[Comte Arnau]

你也能用普通话啊? 你为什么决定学习中文?

No, I can't speak it, just know some of the basics, as I happen to do with many languages: I can sort of read them, but that's all. Chinese needs too much dedication and time, but I can't help finding it a fascinating language.

It's not I decided to learn it, it's I love exploring new languages, specially when different to any other I have studied before. But once I know the 'skeleton', I lose a bit of my interest, shame on me. However, I'll always find Chinese attractive, specially because of its writing. I really hope they never change it for pinyin.

[Jimbo Gomez]

English is as easy as any foreign language can possibly be. We get about as much french as English cultural influences here, but French was a lot harder to learn. I can speak it quite well (although still with a very, very thick accent, I was told), but I'll never be good at writing it. German was by far the hardest. I can understand most written texts in it, and can speak some simple phrases, but the grammar is quite hard. I will add that I wasn't very motivated to learn it though, due to having an awful teacher for it in school.

[Ariets]

French, I hate it.

[Atlas]

German seemed easy at the time I was learning it more than 10 years ago. All I can now remember is Guten Tag, Danke, ja und nein.

English is not that hard, and more useful.

[Ariets]

German seemed easy at the time I was learning it more than 10 years ago. All I can now remember is Guten Tag, Danke, ja und nein.Same here!:coffee:

[Germanicus]

Icelandic must be the hardest European language to learn?

[Jimbo Gomez]

Icelandic must be the hardest European language to learn?

Hungarian, from what I've heard.

[Ariets]

Icelandic must be the hardest European language to learn?
try Polish:D

Icelandic is the most archaic germanic language today spoken, cause of isolation and lack of foreign influnces etc.

[Comte Arnau]

Icelandic must be the hardest European language to learn?

Nah, not at all. Basque and the Uralic ones (Hungarian, Finnish...), that is, if we don't count the North Caucasian ones, which are still more difficult.

[Radojica]

German language.. Writing 3 of 5, grammar 2 of 5, reading 4 of 5, usage in comunication, 0 of 5 :|

edit: numbers are my knowledge of language :embarrassed

[Amapola]

The most "difficult" language I tried to learn was Romanian... counting that I don't think I have learnt difficult languages at all. I am taking up German in September though.

[Absinthe]

I didn't encounter great difficulty in learning Finnish (I haven't "learned" yet but I am in the process).

In fact, I think it must be one of the most "logical" and "mathematical" languages ever, hence extremely easy to learn once one grasps the logic of it.

Most of my Greek friends (including our teacher) learned Finnish very quickly and easily, probably because of the phonetic similarities it has with Greek. :)

[Poltergeist]

I didn't encounter great difficulty in learning Finnish (I haven't "learned" yet but I am in the process).

In fact, I think it must be one of the most "logical" and "mathematical" languages ever, hence extremely easy to learn once one grasps the logic of it.

Most of my Greek friends (including our teacher) learned Finnish very quickly and easily, probably because of the phonetic similarities it has with Greek. :)

Turkish is much more so.

[Amapola]

I didn't encounter great difficulty in learning Finnish (I haven't "learned" yet but I am in the process).

In fact, I think it must be one of the most "logical" and "mathematical" languages ever, hence extremely easy to learn once one grasps the logic of it.

Most of my Greek friends (including our teacher) learned Finnish very quickly and easily, probably because of the phonetic similarities it has with Greek. :)

I guess Greek people can pronounce almost perfect/native Spanish-sounding sentences just by reading it not even being aware of the phonetics, and I suppose it works on the other way as well.

[Comte Arnau]

I guess Greek people can pronounce almost perfect/native Spanish-sounding sentences just by reading it not even being aware of the phonetics, and I suppose it works on the other way as well.

It does, once you can read the alphabet. Modern Greek phonology is very close to the Spanish one.

[Absinthe]

^ True :D

For some very bizarre reason, I can also understand about 60% of what is said/written in Spanish without having ever had contact with the language :lightbul:

For example I have a friend from Chile that plays Pet Society with me, her english is so+so, so she writes to me in Spanish and I always understand what she says and reply to her in English :p
I also manage to somehow communicate with her small godchildren who don't speak English at all.

Must be the Latin that I learned in school? :icon_ask:

[Amapola]

^ True :D

For some very bizarre reason, I can also understand about 60% of what is said/written in Spanish without having ever had contact with the language :lightbul:

For example I have a friend from Chile that plays Pet Society with me, her english is so+so, so she writes to me in Spanish and I always understand what she says and reply to her in English :p
I also manage to somehow communicate with her small godchildren who don't speak English at all.

Must be the Latin that I learned in school? :icon_ask:

Definitely... the latin/greek origin of most of the Spanish lexicon or..
Do you experience reminiscences of a past life? :D

[Comte Arnau]

^ True :D

For some very bizarre reason, I can also understand about 60% of what is said/written in Spanish without having ever had contact with the language :lightbul:

For example I have a friend from Chile that plays Pet Society with me, her english is so+so, so she writes to me in Spanish and I always understand what she says and reply to her in English :p
I also manage to somehow communicate with her small godchildren who don't speak English at all.

Must be the Latin that I learned in school? :icon_ask:


Hehe. Well, I was talking about the sounds, not the languages, which are clearly apart. But the fact that the phonology is so close means that Greeks who speak Spanish or Spaniards who speak Greek can reach a pronunciation of the language that may seem even native.

[Absinthe]

Hehe. Well, I was talking about the sounds, not the languages, which are clearly apart. But the fact that the phonology is so close means that Greeks who speak Spanish or Spaniards who speak Greek can reach a pronunciation of the language that may seem even native.
That is also true.

Whereas much as I find, e.g., Swedish to be a fairly simple and grammatically easy to learn language, I *simply cannot* pronounce those "sj" sounds. It is *impossible* :p

[Poltergeist]

That is also true.

Whereas much as I find, e.g., Swedish to be a fairly simple and grammatically easy to learn language, I *simply cannot* pronounce those "sj" sounds. It is *impossible* :p

Cause you are Greek and the Greek language has no palatals.:p

[ikki]

That is also true.

Whereas much as I find, e.g., Swedish to be a fairly simple and grammatically easy to learn language, I *simply cannot* pronounce those "sj" sounds. It is *impossible* :p

sjutton sjösjuka sjömän sköts av sju sköna sjuksköterskor :D

[ikki]

Turkish is much more so.

Or supposedly very similar grammatics. And letters pronounced exactly the same...

[Poltergeist]

sjutton sjösjuka sjömän sköts av sju sköna sjuksköterskor :D

You are so cruel...:D

[Goidelic]

I'm pretty fluent in German and in the colloquial language as well, speak some Spanish and know a few words in French. I eventually plan on learning those languages as well in addition to their colloquialisms.

Currently learning some Gaelic. :p;)

I'd rate all Gaelic/Goidelic languages (Irish, Welsh, Scottish and their dialects) as most difficult overall. My goal is to eventually form conversations in Gaelic Irish and at most be conversational. :p;)

The second hardest language in my opinion would be Icelandic. Third most hardest language for me would be the rest of the East Asian/Southeast Asian languages to learn, followed by the languages of Africa, Papua New Guinea and elsewhere. You don't have really have many sources for some of these practically unwritten indigenous languages spoken by very peasant peoples in the rest of the biogeographical world :)

[Absinthe]

sjutton sjösjuka sjömän sköts av sju sköna sjuksköterskor :D
:grumpy: :D

[Germanicus]

try Polish:D

Icelandic is the most archaic germanic language today spoken, cause of isolation and lack of foreign influnces etc.

Ok .......say, .......can i have 2 large cold beers please? in Polish

Then find out what the same is in Icelandic?

[Comte Arnau]

Ok .......say, .......can i have 2 large cold beers please? in Polish

Then find out what the same is in Icelandic?

Cool sentence. In Basque it'd be something like

Bi garagardo handiak eta hotzak nahi dut.

[ikki]

Dutch, well, that one i have to read out loud in overpronounced german ... and its somewhat older swedish :D I dont imagine that works the other way :D

German, that takes over an hour for me to begin to understand spoken. Still dont know more than maybe 50 words and no grammatocs at all, but no worry :D
Tierartz fur kleine oder grose tieren? when this guy was talking about his daughter in a schwer teenage, wanting to be a tierartz.
Or some random tourist, asking me, another tourist... about art in the canaries... lol Well, did my best :D

Spanish. Well, did manage to stop a mexican from seeking to stab me or this forumer lady. mutters something around the lines of "Puta di gringo".. grabbing for knife.. no, no esta gringo. esta europeise, finlandeso :D See, an aborted spanish course can save lives.. lol

[Murphy]

Irish without a doubt. The language is brutal!

Regards,
Eóin.

[Ankoù]

That would be Breton. I do not have time to learn it with evening course then I learn it with Breton correspondence courses (http://www.skolober.com/).
English have many similarities with French, it's not real problem to learn... even if my english is far to be perfect.

[Treffie]

That would be Breton. I do not have time to learn it with evening course then I learn it with Breton correspondence courses (http://www.skolober.com/).
English have many similarities with French, it's not real problem to learn... even if my english is far to be perfect.

That's interesting Ankoù, something like this would be ideal for me too. I'll have to look into this :thumb001:

[Zankapfel]

I find all languages difficult in different degrees because I'm not fully functional language-wise.
But of all I've studied/learned I found Spanish the hardest for me to grasp.

[Treffie]

Just had this from Ankou :D

http://15.media.tumblr.com/SH9lMLiRLogko8w6kn6sLiYko1_500.jpg

[Amapola]

Croeso i Cymru! :)

[Matritensis]

Finnish! still working on it...

[Lysander]

I only speak Greek, English and some half assed German so German for sure.
English was easy because of media bombardment.

I just remember going berserk in my room because of German irregulars... Now I know them all even in my sleep, fliegen; flog; ist geflogen :D.

[Paleo]

Gaeilge

[ikki]

Finnish! still working on it...

Hyvää iltaa! Oletko tänään ehtinyt leikkiä härän kanssa jo, kuten Espanjalaisilla on tapana?

[Svarog]

The hard ones were:

Polish - unfortunately Jarl is not around so much and don't have anyone to practice anymore :(

French was not all that hard, but, I already had a good Latin knowledge, I still cannot write French so.. I suck

Russia was considerably hard and still is, I still make mistakes with even basic Russian but I can speak and communicate so it's all good

English, well, was not a walk in the park, learning so much different language than my own is never easy no matter how much you have it in use around.

Ancient Greek - tried and failed miserably with the lowest possible grade on university, sad thing is that I put more effort in it than in any other language..

I am charging my batteries and ready to strike Spanish now, ola! :D

[Radojica]

I am charging my batteries and ready to strike Spanish now, ola! :D

You already failed, its Hola :cool: :p ;)

[Matritensis]

Hyvää iltaa! Oletko tänään ehtinyt leikkiä härän kanssa jo, kuten Espanjalaisilla on tapana?


Terve! en tänään,mutta jos sulla on tyttöystävä mä olen todella varma,että sinulla on pari sarvea päällä.(tai "päälläsi on pari sarvea")Tule keskustaan huomenna ja hoidaan(hoidetaan?) asian!:p

(please feel free to correct the mistakes you might find)

[Poltergeist]

Chinese....

(of course, not the language itself which is very simple, but the writing system)

[Zankapfel]

I'm surprised by the number of people who have listed German as difficult o.O

[Damião de Góis]

French. That's because i only took english and french in school.

[Zyklop]

Russian.

Swedish looks relatively easy.

[Hussar]

RUSSIAN

(i'm still learning)


classical Greek is difficult but schematic afterall.

[Óttar]

German. Gottverdammte Adjektivendungen! So ein Mist! :P


I'm surprised by the number of people who have listed German as difficult o.O
'Ahem'... Most difficult. Out of Spanish, French, Italian, Hindi and German, it is the most difficult.

[Comte Arnau]

I'm surprised by the number of people who have listed German as difficult o.O

Well, Deutsch ist nicht einfach, dear. ;)

But it's glory compared with Hungarian, Finnish or even Russian. :)

[Jamt]

Rautatanko porvarin rinnan läpi, vittu. And I know the meaning of Kulta after hearing it for 4 years.

[Hussar]

I'm surprised by the number of people who have listed German as difficult o.O


This isn't a germanist forum only. Many peoples here don't belong to any germanic ethnicity. So the German language is totally foreign from their perspective (mine too).

[ikki]

Terve! en tänään,mutta jos sulla on tyttöystävä mä olen todella varma,että sinulla on pari sarvea päällä.(tai "päälläsi on pari sarvea")Tule keskustaan huomenna ja hoidaan(hoidetaan?) asian!:p

(please feel free to correct the mistakes you might find)

päässäsi on pari sarvea :D
hoidetaan. asia.

mä - kinda superfluous. olen already implies minä ;)

[ikki]

I'm surprised by the number of people who have listed German as difficult o.O

hehe, and my signature is evidence german and swedish can be kinda dangerous to mix up :D

bär = berries
löv = leaves

kinda like for a german to go to the gasstation and ask for öl :D and gets beer.. not oil

[ikki]

Rautatanko porvarin rinnan läpi, vittu. And I know the meaning of Kulta after hearing it for 4 years.

kulta = "lyd mig träl" ? :D

[Loyalist]

Gaelic has now be unseated by Latin. I made the mistake of signing up for the latter as I needed an elective and it was the only class that fit into the schedule I wanted. The language isn't difficult in the traditional sense, but it's far more grammar-based than any other language I've studied, and the monotony of memorising all sorts of verb and noun forms without mixing in some conversational aspects makes the process completely unpleasant.

[Goidelic]

Well, Deutsch ist nicht einfach, dear. ;)

But it's glory compared with Hungarian, Finnish or even Russian. :)

Deutsch ist ziemlich einfach, im vergleich zu anderen Sprachen. Ich spreche nur Deutsch, schreibe nicht so viel, aber es passt sowieso schon. ;):D

[Psychonaut]

Chinese....

(of course, not the language itself which is very simple, but the writing system)

你为什么决定学习中文? 在哪儿学了?

[Bridie]

I found German very difficult. French is easy-peasy... not that I can remember much of it now. :p

[Inese]

I have big problems with English grammar and German was easier for me!! But okay it is no wonder i grow up with German a little bit and i started to learn English later. :rolleyes2:

[Comte Arnau]

Deutsch ist ziemlich einfach, im vergleich zu anderen Sprachen. Ich spreche nur Deutsch, schreibe nicht so viel, aber es passt sowieso schon. ;):D

Richtig. Im vergleich zu... Chinesisch. ;)


I have big problems with English grammar and German was easier for me!! But okay it is no wonder i grow up with German a little bit and i started to learn English later. :rolleyes2:

German is easier than English when it comes to phonology and spelling. In all other fields, it's objectively more difficult, unless you're German or have grown up in Germany, natürlich. :)

That doesn't imply that English is easy, as people usually say. It is not.

[Bard]

I'm italian so i'm very fluent at speaking and writing in Italian, I know a bit of latin (I can understand it but not all and not always) and I can speak and write decently in english.
I think Italian is a quite hard (and useless atm ) language but maybe thanks the fact italian it's kinda related to other european languages I can understand some french, spanish/portoguese (more than french and german), and some words of german.

[Loxias]

I tried learning Mandarin when I was 17 with books. I gave up after 2 months. Very difficult.
I think Finnish and Hungarian must be very hard too, although I never tried to learn them.

[~°2012°~]

Icelandic is the most archaic germanic language today spoken, cause of isolation and lack of foreign influnces etc.


http://www.hafronska.org/copper/albums/userpics/normal_nylondef.jpg


Icelandic: unterrestrially uninternational! ;)


French is actually the most difficult language I've tried to learn. Russian and Chinese scare me alot .. I won't even try :D

[Murphy]

Irish without a doubt. The language is brutal!

Regards,
Eóin.

I take that back.

Welsh is so scary I wont even try to learn it. Thank God for the Saxons.

Regards,
The Eunuch.

[Treffie]

I take that back.

Welsh is so scary I wont even try to learn it. Thank God for the Saxons.



That's the thing, it just looks scary. It's not that it's difficult - just different.

[Murphy]

That's the thing, it just looks scary. It's not that it's difficult - just different.

Your biased :p!

Regards,
The Eunuch.

[Aleksey]

Irish southern dialects... it's evil, but managable.

[Aino]

Learning Polish was the hardest for me. I knew several foreign languages before Polish, but they were all Germanic (English, Swedish, German) so they didn't help at all. Russian was a bit easier after Polish. Latin was difficult, too, because of the grammar. Norwegian and Danish were, in contrast, quite easy, but I never learnt to pronounce Danish properly. Icelandic was a nightmare.

[Svipdag]

Without a doubt, Sanskrit. I took it up too late in life. By my 60's, I could no longer memorise vocabulary as I had been able to do in my youth. The Devanagari syllabary is not excessively hard to learn. There are only 49 characters. However, there are somewhere around 100 consonant clusters, of which I managed to memorise only about 40-50.

The grammar is not dauntingly complicated, though nouns have about 7 cases (as in Finnish and Latin), some of which are seldom used. Sandhi, the elision and mutation of vowels and some consonants between words and the
lackofdivisionbetweenwordscanmakeaSanskritsentence verydifficulttoread. The example I have just given is simpler than a real Sanskrit sentence because I have not used sandhi. [It wouldn't work well in English.]

I find it to be a beautiful language and some of the noblest thoughts of the human mind have been recorded in it, but , alas, I came to it too late. I must content myself with reading the Vedas and Upanishads in English translation.

In the run-on sentence given above, there should be no space between the words "sentence" and "very".

[Matritensis]

Learning Polish was the hardest for me. I knew several foreign languages before Polish, but they were all Germanic (English, Swedish, German) so they didn't help at all. Russian was a bit easier after Polish. Latin was difficult, too, because of the grammar. Norwegian and Danish were, in contrast, quite easy, but I never learnt to pronounce Danish properly. Icelandic was a nightmare.

http://mobilereference.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/hatsoff1.jpg

Respect...

[Germanicus]

Italian for me is a very hard language to get to grips with..

[Absinthe]

Without a doubt, Sanskrit. I took it up too late in life. By my 60's, I could no longer memorise vocabulary as I had been able to do in my youth.

Where did you learn it? Self-teaching method or some course? :)


The Devanagari syllabary is not excessively hard to learn. There are only 49 characters. However, there are somewhere around 100 consonant clusters, of which I managed to memorise only about 40-50.

Interestingly enough, it proved to be much more easier than I had expected. It's some conjuctions that are difficult to recognize, sometimes, but otherwise, it is not that hard to learn :)


The grammar is not dauntingly complicated, though nouns have about 7 cases (as in Finnish and Latin), some of which are seldom used.

Not harder from ancient Greek, which I also had to learn on high school. In fact ancient Greek might even be harder because of the different dialects and all the grammar anomalies and exceptions.


Sandhi, the elision and mutation of vowels and some consonants between words and the
lackofdivisionbetweenwordscanmakeaSanskritsentence verydifficulttoread. The example I have just given is simpler than a real Sanskrit sentence because I have not used sandhi. [It wouldn't work well in English.]

Well one gets used to that as well...


I find it to be a beautiful language and some of the noblest thoughts of the human mind have been recorded in it, but , alas, I came to it too late. I must content myself with reading the Vedas and Upanishads in English translation.

Ditto :thumb001: I've only memorized a few passages from the Upanishads, the Rigveda and the Bhagavad Gita and I need a translation for anything else. I am still struggling to figure out a manuscript that a friend of mine brought from Kashmir. But it's fascinating anyway :thumbs up

[Óttar]

Italian for me is a very hard language to get to grips with..
Italian is just a standard Romance language with the same structure as Spanish or French along with tons of familiar Latin vocabulary..:coffee:

[Bard]

Yes but if you are not mother tongue of any romance language (or at least you've learned one) it's not this easy.
I think that verb and nouns with many different coniugations and declinations are quite tricky for an english man.

[Svanhild]

My one and only foreign language so far is English. I do well if I invest time and use a dictionary for some single words I don't know. It wasn't hard to learn but it's hard to master. :wink Later I want to learn Norwegian. Maybe.

[Wölfin]

Latin was difficult but not too much. Japanese wasn't grammatically hard, but it is structurally in terms of etiquette and speech levels. That's where it gets confusing as fuck. When I first started approaching Russian I thought "Dear god..." but we will see once I really get in to it. For now I'm focusing on Romanian, so far it is not too difficult as I'm a native Romance speaker and I've done Latin.

[Comte Arnau]

Latin was difficult but not too much.

Loquisne latine? Tibi videris bona Europaea esse, eques canadensis. :)

[Horka Ozul]

I believe there is no easy language, each one takes much dedication and strong memory work to be learned. My mother tongue is hungarian and english and romanian are the other two languages I speak on very good level, romanian actually as good as hungarian. I would say from the two english was the harder to learn, but I think both languages are among the "easier" languages there are, even though english is quite tricky to write down correctly and romanian does have too many grammatical rules. I also speak badly some german, I for sure can read and pronounce quite correctly, even write on a decent level, however my memory somehow doesn't allow me to learn it properly, and I am extremely frustrated because of this, it is such a beautiful language, it shouldn't be more difficult to learn it than english, but I guess because I rarely hear it in movies, music, TV (even if sometimes I force myself to watch german TV channels), it is harder to learn, but I will never give up, I must learn this language. From what I heard Gaelic languages are the most difficult to learn. I mean how do you suppose to pronounce those written words? It is really some trip with all languages that are written in a way and are pronounced in another way, I am not really excited in learning such languages. For example french sounds so beautifully and logical, but it looks as a complete "mess" when you see it on paper. I think italian and spanish would be the languages I could learn the fastest if I would decide to learn a new language. Also the southern slavic languages don't look too difficult to be learned, I think the central (especially slovakian with its unbearable writing system, a lot of consecutive consonants) and eastern slavic languages are more difficult, but also more beautiful sounding (czech, ukrainian and russian). From the germanic languages I really like Afrikaans and Dutch, even if Dutch seems to me it necessitates a lot of saliva to be pronounced, also swedish, norwegian and danish are pretty distant from the familiar english and german, that's why I think of them they are among the difficult languages. The Baltic languages are not very difficult at first look, especially lithuanian which has many familiar latin words. I believe contrary to the "finno-ugric" theories, that finnish is a hard language even if it doesn't look that bad in written form, it has absolutely no connection to hungarian, not in grammar, not in pronunciation, not in words with common origin. Basically with this I arrive to my sweet hungarian language, it has no relative language, and connecting it with any type of family tree it's useless and unproductive. I think the scientific world must accept already that it is in its own category, besides a few hundreds of words that entered from romance, germanic, slavic, altaic and iranian languages the wide part of the vocabulary has untraceable origins in other languages, and by the astonishing logic of it, and the quite simplicity of the grammar it can only be stated that it is one of the oldest languages still spoken in Eurasia, and its roots can be identified very early in time, without exaggerating, as one of the first languages spoken by people living from Europe to Central Asia.

[Amapola]

I think that Spanish is the easiest of all Romance languages. Amongst the most difficult languages, in my opinion, are Mandarin, Japanese, Arabic, Korean, Cantonese. European: Russian, Finnish, Polish, Hungarian and Greek.

[Germanicus]

I think that Spanish is the easiest of all Romance languages. Amongst the most difficult languages, in my opinion, are Mandarin, Japanese, Arabic, Korean, Cantonese. European: Russian, Finnish, Polish, Hungarian and Greek.

In my case it's Italian.

[Stefan]

Well I have only invested in two languages so far: French and Japanese, and both are pretty easy when looking at the wider picture of things, though Japanese is the more time consuming of the two.

I'd say I would like to learn all the Romance languages because they sound so nice, but if I were to choose another Romance language, it would without a doubt have to be Spanish, due to the global and local(to the point of my family) value it will give. Spanish seems to be easier than both French and Japanese though, so that isn't helping out. I'd also want to learn a more ancient language, Sumerian, Old English, Latin, and Ancient Greek come to mind. They should prove to be quite difficult. A Slavic language would be nice and difficult as well. Any other Germanic languages I learn should be harder than French, but still quite easy. Basque is another language I'm interested in and it should be difficult also. :( There is a lot of them I want to learn.

In reality, I doubt I will be fluent in a fraction of these, let alone all of them, but I would like to have some experience with all of them and quite a few of them should be difficult.

[Amapola]

In my case it's Italian.

It's curious :mmmm:... it's the first time I hear such a thing. Have you tried other languages at all?

[Comte Arnau]

In my opinion, I agree with Alana. Spanish is the easiest of the major Romance languages, with Italian coming second. Then, Catalan and Portuguese. Then French. And finally, Romanian.

That doesn't mean Spanish or Italian are easy to master. I'm referring here to how relatively easy reaching an acceptable level can be, according to the difficulty of their phonology, their syntax and their spelling.

[Osweo]

I'm referring here to how relatively easy reaching an acceptable level can be, according to the difficulty of their phonology, their syntax and their spelling.
Would you say, by those standards, English is not TOO difficult? In my own observations, people can more quickly reach a level in English where you can at least be understood, than in a language like Russian, where even after years of studying and practice something eludes you?

It's probably easier to make an understandable 'pidgin' from (analytical) English than from a synthetic language, wouldn't you say? Attention to detail in grammar is expendable for my native language while still being understood, I'd say.

[Comte Arnau]

Would you say, by those standards, English is not TOO difficult? In my own observations, people can more quickly reach a level in English where you can at least be understood, than in a language like Russian, where even after years of studying and practice something eludes you?

It's probably easier to make an understandable 'pidgin' from (analytical) English than from a synthetic language, wouldn't you say? Attention to detail in grammar is expendable for my native language while still being understood, I'd say.

English can be deceptive. While phonology and spelling are tricky, its modern grammar and syntax are relatively easy indeed, and both the Romanizing influence it went through and the spread of it as an international language make its vocabulary easy to catch too, at least at a basic level. But then, the gap between basic English and a real proficiency in the language is much wider than expected, and many stop at that basic level because they feel it works for them well enough to be understood.

Theoretically, we could say that English is relatively easy -or more 'quickly accessible'- when compared to most other European languages. But not necessarily so at a world-wide level.

[Sol Invictus]

Japanese. I was actually making alot of progress but forgot most of it after stopping the study.

Now all I can say is Watashi wa nihongo ga skoshi wakarimasu.

[MarcvSS]

Most difficult language/s that you've learned, or have tried to learn.

Dutch....

[Psychonaut]

Mod Note: The discussion revolving around the origins of Hungarian has been moved to its own thread (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11131).

[Hrolf Kraki]

I found German to be somewhat difficult. Danish and the other Scandinavian languages were quite easy for the most part, especially since I learned German first. I've learned a bit of Spanish and found it to be fairly easy. I made an attempt at Icelandic, but got caught in a mess of noun declinsions! I think I'd rather learn Finnish noun declinsions than Icelandic!

The Arabic course I took years ago was insanely hard, but I'd really like to try it again now that I know more about language in general.

[Fortis in Arduis]

English.

[Gennady]

German and Russian grammar.I can partially understand the writing in Bulgarian.
But not teach this language

[Arne]

English.
I thought you are born in the uk ?
Then what´s your mother language ?

[Nglund]

Russian (and Slavic [except Bulgarian] as a whole) grammar is horribly difficult.

I've always been interested in Semitic languages (since I was 7 years old actually).

Especially Arabic and Akkadian.

Arabic is the richest language that comes to my mind (But it's also hard to learn because of the abjad).

I also tried to learn Persian, I failed miserably because the lexicon is filled with Arabic words so I usually mixed with Semitic grammar which is different and easier (in a sense:D) than the Farsi one.

[Sadie]

Polish. Only tried.

[Sahson]

hardest? French, or Basque (souletin). I still have pronouncing some of the basque words. French I just hate. I learned it for 8 years, and barely remember much these days. I find manadarin and wu easier then french.

Galego came to me naturally, took me 6 months to learn to be proficient in Galego. God knows how or why.

[hajduk]

Slavic languages + Armenian

[Saruman]

Mandarin Chinese.

[Baron Samedi]

English, lol.

[Óttar]

A comparison of W. Romance languages.

Latin: Aqua

Italian: Acqua

Spanish: Agua

Portuguese: Agua

French: Eau... (:confused: WTF?!)

[Hrolf Kraki]

A comparison of W. Romance languages.

Latin: Aqua

Italian: Acqua

Spanish: Agua

Portuguese: Agua

French: Eau... (:confused: WTF?!)

http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/eau#.C3.89tymologie

[Psychonaut]

http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/eau#.C3.89tymologie

As a student of linguistics, it's been my experience that French etymologies—owing more to retarded orthographical systems than to phonological changes—are among the most difficult to intuit.

[Bloodeagle]

Athabascan!
http://www.aa.tufs.ac.jp/athabascan/images/oto_seecon.jpg (http://www.aa.tufs.ac.jp/athabascan/oto_seecon_e.html#)

[Óttar]

As a student of linguistics, it's been my experience that French etymologies—owing more to retarded orthographical systems than to phonological changes—are among the most difficult to intuit.


Du latin aqua, devenu au XIe siècle egua et ewe, au XIIe siècle aive, aigue, eve, puis eaue (XIIIe siècle) dont l’e final a disparu au XVIe siècle.

Apparently so. These guys don't know how to spell. L'eau has the same origin as in the other vulgar Latin languages and yet for some reason aqua became ewe and egua.

[julie]

Dutch and German

[Hrolf Kraki]

As a student of linguistics, it's been my experience that French etymologies—owing more to retarded orthographical systems than to phonological changes—are among the most difficult to intuit.

I've heard they had some weird spellings. I don't know anything about French though.

Anyone know what the original French name might have been which led to the Anglocized form: Burnham/Burnum/Burnam (or similar spelling)?

[Psychonaut]

I've heard they had some weird spellings. I don't know anything about French though.

Anyone know what the original French name might have been which led to the Anglocized form: Burnham/Burnum/Burnam (or similar spelling)?

I don't think it's a French name. Ancestry says (http://www.ancestry.com/facts/Burnham-family-history.ashx):


Burnham Name Meaning and History
English: habitational name from any of several places called Burnham. Those in Buckinghamshire (Burnham Beeches), Norfolk (various villages), and Essex (Burnham-on-Crouch) are named with Old English burna ‘stream’ + ham ‘homestead’. In the case of Burnham-on-Sea in Somerset, however, the second element is Old English hamm ‘water meadow’, while Burnham in Lincolnshire is named from brunnum, dative plural of Old Norse brunnr ‘spring’, originally used after a preposition, i.e. ‘(at) the springs’.

[Osweo]

I've heard they had some weird spellings. I don't know anything about French though.

Anyone know what the original French name might have been which led to the Anglocized form: Burnham/Burnum/Burnam (or similar spelling)?

From your profile, I assume your male line goes back to a Norman ancestor, coming here, sword in hand, in 1066? If that's the case, chances are he didn't have a surname until he was given the tenancy of some village called Burnham. :thumb001:

[Hrolf Kraki]

I don't think it's a French name. Ancestry says (http://www.ancestry.com/facts/Burnham-family-history.ashx):

My grandfather did a bunch of research and wrote a book on our family history. They originally came over to England with the Normans, but upon arriving in England, their name was Anglicized to Burnham, or some variant. I was hoping to find some sort of connection between the English and the French-Norman.

[Hrolf Kraki]

From your profile, I assume your male line goes back to a Norman ancestor, coming here, sword in hand, in 1066? If that's the case, chances are he didn't have a surname until he was given the tenancy of some village called Burnham. :thumb001:

Yes. Hmm... that is a real possibility of not even having a surname prior. I need to sign up for Ancestry.

[Osweo]

My grandfather did a bunch of research and wrote a book on our family history. They originally came over to England with the Normans, but upon arriving in England, their name was Anglicized to Burnham, or some variant. I was hoping to find some sort of connection between the English and the French-Norman.

It doesn't look anything like a French name. I'm feeling benevolent, so here's what my dictionary says;

de Burnham = first attested 1193, in Norfolk, as the surname of a Geoffrey and a Roger there.

Hehe!!! I actually stayed down the road from there a year or so ago! Admiral Nelson was born and reared in Burnham Thorpe, where the pub he used to go to is still open and serving decent meals. Burnham Market is a very nice village, with a very fine shop in it where I bought my famous hat! :D

IF there is a 'de' in front of a blatantly English placename as early as 1193, this is NOT going to be a French name.

My dictionary says there's villages with the name in Bucks, Essex, Lincs, Norfolk, Somerset, so you could be from any one of them, or another more obscure hamlet of the name. Nowt French there at all.

(Norman genealogies are often complete bollocks anyway, constructed for upwardly mobile yet solidly English new-gentry)

[SilverKnight]

français !, I know a bit, but the pronunciations where difficult

[Liffrea]

Ideally I would like to be reasonably proficient at reading Latin, I’ve never been good at languages and the grammar is difficult for me but I have some beginners Latin guides around, might have a go at it.

Old English, Old Norse, Latin and ancient Greek, that’ll do.:D

[Hrolf Kraki]

Ideally I would like to be reasonably proficient at reading Latin, I’ve never been good at languages and the grammar is difficult for me but I have some beginners Latin guides around, might have a go at it.

Old English, Old Norse, Latin and ancient Greek, that’ll do.:D

I'm taking Latin next year in an attempt to prepare myself for graduate studies. (I intend to study Medieval and/or Ancient History.) I've studied a bit of Old English and Old Norse; I'm hoping to get into the Old Norse course being offered next fall, but it's up in the air right now from what the department chair told me. Ancient Greek sounds neat too and I'm about to check out ebay for a book on it!

[Cato]

Old English, tried to learn the basics of it a couple of years ago and put it on the back burner for the time being.

The language of my fathers is so vastly different, yet so similar in many ways. :)

[tired]

I done a year of Japanese at school

[Hrolf Kraki]

I done a year of Japanese at school

Nice! Still working on English though? :p

Just funnin' with ya. ;)

[seismic]

leave him alone hes tired :D, German was a bit hard for me but it depends on how much dedication you put into it.

[Hrolf Kraki]

leave him alone hes tired :D, German was a bit hard for me but it depends on how much dedication you put into it.

German is quite difficult as their case system can make things quite complicated for English-speakers. Keep at it though! Übung macht den Meister!

[poiuytrewq0987]

I tried learning Swedish but at one point I just gave up. I didn't have the heart to learn Swedish as it was a rather pointless endeavor for me at the time.

[Hrolf Kraki]

I tried learning Swedish but at one point I just gave up. I didn't have the heart to learn Swedish as it was a rather pointless endeavor for me at the time.

Oh come on now! Swedish is easy. I love how their conjugation is extremely simplified. But yeah you are correct that there's really no point in learning it. It's fun though, right!? :D

[Svanhild]

German is quite difficult as their case system can make things quite complicated for English-speakers. Keep at it though! Übung macht den Meister!
Our case system is pretty easy. If you understand the conception behind it, of course. :wink Surpreme languages aren't to be learned in a few days...:D

[Hrolf Kraki]

Our case system is pretty easy. If you understand the conception behind it, of course. :wink Surpreme languages aren't to be learned in a few days...:D

Yes it is quite reduced from the original 8 (Old English had 5!) that PIE supposedly possessed. I believe a bunch of them like the ablative and instrumental all collapsed into the dative. My brain's gone a bit fuzzy though in the last month and a half since school got out.


It was a supreme language until they reduced the usage of ß and then started getting rid of the genitive. Who doesn't like the genitive!? haha. :p

[evon]

ive so far had most problems with German (advanced), ive also learned: Japanese (basic), Chinese mandarin (basic), Hebrew (basic) and Latin (Basic)..there are many languages courses here for basic level, not so many for more advanced stuff:P but this fall i will learn Turkish if i get around to it..

[Cail]

Yes it is quite reduced from the original 8 (Old English had 5!) that PIE supposedly possessed.

Balto-Slavic languages have 7 of them - Lithuanian, Czech, Polish, Latvian, Ukrainian,... Russian has 6 - it normally lacks vocative (though still present in some dialects and even social registers in reduced form). The 8th case (illative) is still present in some Lithuanian dialects.

[Hrolf Kraki]

Balto-Slavic languages have 7 of them - Lithuanian, Czech, Polish, Latvian, Ukrainian,... Russian has 6 - it normally lacks vocative (though still present in some dialects and even social registers in reduced form). The 8th case (illative) is still present in some Lithuanian dialects.

Wildness. Well Finnish still wins with 15, although it isn't Indo-European.

[Psychonaut]

Wildness. Well Finnish still wins with 15, although it isn't Indo-European.

Even wilder? Chinese "wins" with zero cases, zero conjugations and zero tenses. :D

[Oinakos Growion]

I never tried to learn it, but my brother is still in the process of learning Thai (professional reasons) and it sounds like a nightmare.
He keeps insisting that it's a "very nice and interesting language", but I guess he's just saying that to cheer himself up :D
All those zillions of vowels, tones... it does my head. On top of the writing, of course.

[Laukar]

I've been trying to learn Icelandic for some time. I've never actually sat down with a language-book or taken any classes though, just trying to pick up a little bit here and a little bit there... I think it's a very beautiful language.

[nisse]

I might have to learn swedish come September...than again, it sounds impossible so I might just change my mind about respecting host cultures and not bother :cool:

[Óttar]

German is quite difficult as their case system can make things quite complicated for English-speakers. Keep at it though! Übung macht den Meister!
I'm pretty sure Germans copied their grammar from Latin. I never understood what the Hell was going on with their accusative and dative case until I browsed through Wheelock's and took Latin. Even after 4 years of studying German I still have yet to look over all the case endings and memorise them, when I'm not weary of studying that is.


It was a supreme language until they reduced the usage of ß and then started getting rid of the genitive. Who doesn't like the genitive!? haha. :p
They got rid of the genitive!!! :eek:

I agree, genitive is the best along with the infinitive.

[Hrolf Kraki]

I'm pretty sure Germans copied their grammar from Latin.

No; I've never heard of that. Now English grammarians took small bits from Latin so perhaps some German grammarians did something similar, but by and large the cases came down from PIE, via proto-Germanic. At least that was what we were told in the class on German Language History I took for my degree. Both these "languages" predate Latin. If you're interested I can try and find the print-out on it.



I never understood what the Hell was going on with their accusative and dative case until I browsed through Wheelock's and took Latin. Even after 4 years of studying German I still have yet to look over all the case endings and memorise them, when I'm not weary of studying that is.


Cases govern different things depending on the language. Latin =/= German.



They got rid of the genitive!!! :eek:

Not yet, but as I understand it the genitive is on the way out. Check out Sebastian Sick's Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod.


I agree, genitive is the best along with the infinitive.

The genitive is a grammatical case. The infinitive is the unconjugated verb form.

[Óttar]

Cases govern different things depending on the language. Latin =/= German.

Accusative and dative in both languages have to do with direct vs. indirect object and location vs. destination.

[Hrolf Kraki]

Accusative and dative in both languages have to do with direct vs. indirect object and location vs. destination.

Ok, then it sounds like they are the same in this instance. I just know that the PIE ablative is not the same as the Finnish ablative so I know that sometimes cases can differ.

I wish I could remember everything my professor said, but he mentioned something about certain prepositions being remnants of the archaic case system. Damn I'm looking for my papers!

[Svanhild]

It was a supreme language until they reduced the usage of ß and then started getting rid of the genitive. Who doesn't like the genitive!? haha. :p
The usage of ß is reduced but it's no rule but a choice. There're a lot of words who need ß as a letter: Heiß, mutmaßen, Fleiß, schweißen, Spaß, Straße, süß, weiß, Gruß, Fuß, draußen, außen, Maß, Soße...et cetera, et cetera.

They got rid of the genitive!!
No one got rid of the genitive, the usage is allowed. Unrestricted. However, most younger people prefer the dative. It's something like a fashion style. :wink

Genitive: Wessen Uhr ging zu Bruch?
Possible Norm cases: a) Wem gehört die zerbrochene Uhr?
b) Die Uhr von wem ging zu Bruch?
c) Von wem ging die Uhr zu Bruch?


I'm pretty sure Germans copied their grammar from Latin. I never understood what the Hell was going on with their accusative and dative case until I browsed through Wheelock's and took Latin.
That's wrong, German grammar hasn't much to do with Latin grammar. Most verbal cases were already existent in an older form, they follow a German grammar continuum.

[Treffie]

I never tried to learn it, but my brother is still in the process of learning Thai (professional reasons) and it sounds like a nightmare.
He keeps insisting that it's a "very nice and interesting language", but I guess he's just saying that to cheer himself up :D
All those zillions of vowels, tones... it does my head. On top of the writing, of course.

Everytime I hear Thai, it sounds like someone is chewing an elastic band. :p

[Hrolf Kraki]

The usage of ß is reduced but it's no rule but a choice. There're a lot of words who need ß as a letter: Heiß, mutmaßen, Fleiß, schweißen, Spaß, Straße, süß, weiß, Gruß, Fuß, draußen, außen, Maß, Soße...et cetera, et cetera.

It's not a rule? I thought the rule was use an ß after long vowels and ss after short vowels. I've written daß instead of dass in papers before and all but one of my German professors counted it wrong, saying dass should be used. I personally still like daß and the one professor who is from Germany still uses daß so I did too, at least for her class! So is this vowel length rule not strictly followed in Germany?


No one got rid of the genitive, the usage is allowed. Unrestricted. However, most younger people prefer the dative. It's something like a fashion style. :wink

Genitive: Wessen Uhr ging zu Bruch?
Possible Norm cases: a) Wem gehört die zerbrochene Uhr?
b) Die Uhr von wem ging zu Bruch?
c) Von wem ging die Uhr zu Bruch?

Oh I know the genitive is still around. I rarely use the dative form. I used it once in a paper and one of the older professors almost marked it wrong. But see, with your example, I much prefer Wessen Uhr ging zu Bruch?. The other two sound funny. :p

[Wyn]

Japanese. The hiragana and katakana are relatively easy to learn/memorize if you have the time and desire to learn the language, but kanji is extremely difficult.

[Svanhild]

I've written daß instead of dass in papers before and all but one of my German professors counted it wrong, saying dass should be used. I personally still like daß and the one professor who is from Germany still uses daß so I did too, at least for her class! So is this vowel length rule not strictly followed in Germany?
The rather vovel length rule is taught in school but most people don't care. There're large national news magazines and newspapers who returned to use the old form and continuously boycott the new rules. In daily life, people either use dass or daß and no one really cares. :wink

Oh I know the genitive is still around. I rarely use the dative form. I used it once in a paper and one of the older professors almost marked it wrong. But see, with your example, I much prefer Wessen Uhr ging zu Bruch?. The other two sound funny. :p
There're more possibilities. I doubt you learn all possible variants in your course.

d) Die zerbrochene Uhr, wem gehört sie?
e) Die zerbrochene Uhr gehört wem?

[Hrolf Kraki]

The rather vovel length rule is taught in school but most people don't care. There're large national news magazines and newspapers who returned to use the old form and continuously boycott the new rules. In daily life, people either use dass or daß and no one really cares. :wink

Oh this is good news! From now on I'm using ß in place of all ss.


There're more possibilities. I doubt you learn all possible variants in your course.

d) Die zerbrochene Uhr, wem gehört sie?
e) Die zerbrochene Uhr gehört wem?

Yeah I just arbitrarily chose the one I liked the best. :p

[Osweo]

I'm pretty sure Germans copied their grammar from Latin. I never understood what the Hell was going on with their accusative and dative case until I browsed through Wheelock's and took Latin.
Studying any language with a full operational case system helps to understand one with a decayed system. In my case, it was a living language; Russian, and armed with this, I can organise better in my head the things I hear about Old English and Celtic and so on. :)

[Óttar]

One interesting thing is a word like wahrscheinlich, "probably" wahr (truth) + schein (appearance) + lich (roughly -ly) being nearly the same in construction as Italian verosimile, "likely, probable" vero (true) simile (likeness). There are many other words like this. Even words like kaufen (to buy) and Kopf (head) are Latin derived from caupo (L. "tradesman, shopkeeper) and cuppa (L. "cup, head") respectively.

[Óttar]

I've been studying for my Latin test tomorrow for 2 hours. I've been studying the forms of verbs in both the active and passive mood in the present, imperfect past, and future tenses. There are 36 possible outcomes. I hate the passive case, especially irregular passives i.e. for regere, capere etc! This is probably the hardest (part of a?) language I've ever studied. Ancient Greek will probably be awful, but I have to get through this one first.

I also have to memorise declensions of all the personal pronouns. My brain is completely fried. :flynch:

[Hrolf Kraki]

Why are you studying Latin and Ancient Greek? History major?

I'm taking Latin this Fall as I'd like to apply for grad school to study Ancient/Medieval History.

[Óttar]

Why are you studying Latin and Ancient Greek? History major?

I'm taking Latin this Fall as I'd like to apply for grad school to study Ancient/Medieval History.
I got my B.A. in History and I want to go to grad school for Classics. In order to go I have to get up to intermediate proficiency (which means passing a proficiency test) in Latin, Greek and Italian. Then I have to take the GREs. I'm expecting another B on my 2nd Latin test. I want to get an A, but Latin can be brain frying.

[antonio]

I got my B.A. in History and I want to go to grad school for Classics. In order to go I have to get up to intermediate proficiency (which means passing a proficiency test) in Latin, Greek and Italian. Then I have to take the GREs. I'm expecting another B on my 2nd Latin test. I want to get an A, but Latin can be brain frying.

It's even more frustrating when your mother tongue derived from it:

At 14 y.o. (before Humanities-Sciences election) Latin was a compulsory matter. I remember it being more easy (probably because of the poor level and my then really good retentive), but this year I tried to read a Latin classical work at a bilingual edition and I cannot go thru it without the Spanish translation. OTOH Id probably performed much better on reading a Vulgar Latin work (the real father of Romance languages) ...unfortunatelly there's no one available but the Medieval age ones, although that's more Awfully Bad Latin than simply Vulgar one. :D

[Hrolf Kraki]

I got my B.A. in History and I want to go to grad school for Classics. In order to go I have to get up to intermediate proficiency (which means passing a proficiency test) in Latin, Greek and Italian. Then I have to take the GREs. I'm expecting another B on my 2nd Latin test. I want to get an A, but Latin can be brain frying.

I thought about doing Classics for a while, but I finally decided I was more interested in the historical aspects. I like generals better than journalists. :p

Where are you applying to?

[Murphy]

I've recently been dabbling in Scottish Gaelic. It comes a lot more naturally than Irish I must say.

[Óttar]

I thought about doing Classics for a while, but I finally decided I was more interested in the historical aspects. I like generals better than journalists. :p
I know what you mean. It's hard for me to contemplate lecturing on the past particle agglutinative indicative alveolar fricative plosive doubleplusungood of the second dental declined 14th conjugation palatal adverb. I'd find a way to make it interesting I'm sure. :p

Where are you applying to?
Once I get all my language requirements and GREs up to snuff, (it will take a while) I'll apply to Harvard, Brown, BC, and Brandeis... I'll hunt for some others. BU only has a program in Archaeology. :rolleyes: I hear Chicago has good programs.

[Osweo]

I've recently been dabbling in Scottish Gaelic. It comes a lot more naturally than Irish I must say.

I told you so! :D

Irish of the remaining pockets in Ireland is probably as distant from the Irish of your ancestors and mine, before they switched to English, as the Scots version is, indeed. So it's not as if we're betraying anybody or owt! :p

[Guapo]

before they switched to English,

Were they forced to switch to English? For example from what I've read, the Romans brutally forced the Dacians to speak Latin after conquering them. any neutral sources?

[Osweo]

Were they forced to switch to English? For example from what I've read, the Romans brutally forced the Dacians to speak Latin after conquering them. any neutral sources?
Well... not quite.

There was serious pressure on Gaels in English ruled areas, but it wasn't very successful, despite theoretical legal rules. Indeed, a lot of the first wave of English colonists became Hibernicised in speech themselves, and the government spent more effort in trying to keep the English in Ireland speaking English, rather than bother with the natives. There are stories of Anglo-Norman aristocrats requiring royal documents to be translated into Irish. :p

I would say that most linguistic conversion occured in a relatively late period of English rule, primarily for reasons of bettering one's prospects in life, and those of one's children. This coincided with the growth of British Industry and imperial expansion, so the opportunities were wider than before.

Perhaps Jon Paul can speak more authoritatively on this matter...? :)

[Hrolf Kraki]

I know what you mean. It's hard for me to contemplate lecturing on the past particle agglutinative indicative alveolar fricative plosive doubleplusungood of the second dental declined 14th conjugation palatal adverb. I'd find a way to make it interesting I'm sure. :p

Hahaha! Agglutinative languages are fun, right? :p

My old German professor told us that he wrote his dissertation on the short o in Swiss German (or something like that).

But I thought his classes were the most interesting of all!


Once I get all my language requirements and GREs up to snuff, (it will take a while) I'll apply to Harvard, Brown, BC, and Brandeis... I'll hunt for some others. BU only has a program in Archaeology. :rolleyes: I hear Chicago has good programs.[/QUOTE]

Archæology is neat. I used to want to pursue it, but then I decided I didn't want to dig in the dirt all my life.

[Murphy]

Perhaps Jon Paul can speak more authoritatively on this matter...? :)

What Osweo has said pretty much covers it all. It should be added that even when there was a surge in English-speakers in Ireland, for the various reasons Osweo noted, Irish was still the language with the most speakers. English was the language of education and commerce however.

That ended with the Great Famine. Irish would have been a lot stronger today if not for this. Those who spoke English were generally of a higher class and better fit to deal with the whole thing.. those who spoke Irish weren't.

During the famine many Irish-speakers left for England, Scotland, Canada and America, many who couldn't died. That is why English is the most widley-spoken language in Ireland today.

[Sahson]

Learning Hungarian from my aunt...

[Hrolf Kraki]

Learning Hungarian from my aunt...

I have a book on Hungarian. It looks insane. All I know is Bazd meg. :p


So how difficult is it really?

[Furlan]

I enjoy a lot to learn new languages, the most difficult language I tried to learn was Russian, I nearly forgot everything besides a few words but I am still able to read the cyrillic alphabet ;)

[Sahson]

I have a book on Hungarian. It looks insane. All I know is Bazd meg. :p


So how difficult is it really?

It's not that bad. I learnt Euskara and found that slightly difficult. The grammar for Magyar is quite simple and easy. Either way I only stayed with her for 6 days, and she's given me a book in Magyar she use to read as a kid called "Egri Csillagok" she says its a great book. So I suppose this is the first time I'm learning a language to read a book. :P

It's a nice language, I just have trouble with the Ty and Gy sound. I think I got the Gy right now...

[Lithium]

Personally to me, this is the french :D

[Furlan]

What Osweo has said pretty much covers it all. It should be added that even when there was a surge in English-speakers in Ireland, for the various reasons Osweo noted, Irish was still the language with the most speakers. English was the language of education and commerce however.

That ended with the Great Famine. Irish would have been a lot stronger today if not for this. Those who spoke English were generally of a higher class and better fit to deal with the whole thing.. those who spoke Irish weren't.

During the famine many Irish-speakers left for England, Scotland, Canada and America, many who couldn't died. That is why English is the most widley-spoken language in Ireland today.

This is really sad :( But Irish people don't want to learn gaelic and use it in every day life?

[Osweo]

That ended with the Great Famine. Irish would have been a lot stronger today if not for this. Those who spoke English were generally of a higher class and better fit to deal with the whole thing.. those who spoke Irish weren't.
I'm wondering, JP, have you ever seen chronological maps of the retreat of the Irish language? I'm wondering how much of Ireland was already Anglophone in 1845, you see. I suspect that the Famine was not quite so influential in this respect as you indicate. I'm wondering, indeed, if the psychological blow dealt by the '98 had more to do with it? I bet that there were large bilingual areas by '45 where only the elderly had a real fluency. The famine will have brought these an early death, but the transition to ENglish among their children and grandchildren had already begun.

This is really sad :( But Irish people don't want to learn gaelic and use it in every day life?
None of my (many) Irish cousins do. :( I was writing to one on Facebook the other day asking what something meant, and my own interest in such things was clearly far higher than their own. The thing is, there's a LOT of Anglophone Irish culture now. You don't have to speak Irish to take part in national culture. And to a native English speaker, the Gaelic is rather like walking uphill.... It's a bloody hard language!

[Queen B]

I have tried to learn (either by lessons or by myself) few languages.
French and German by class and Japanese,Korean and Spanish by myself.

French and German are not that hard, but I gave up because I dislike them as languages and as sound.

From the rest, its Korean. Although the writing system is the easiest out of the main East Asian (Japanese and Chinese I mean), the grammar and syntax is a pain in the @ss. Let along that you have to use different kind when you speak to elder,friends,,etc ..

[Peyrol]

Latin.

Too much similar to italian to use it fully and have a complete mastership.

[Leliana]

I had to learn Latin in school and I couldn't stand it. People say it's not difficult or complex but it's too complex for me. English is easy and lovely. I don't speak any other languages. German, English and Latin, that's it. :)

[morski]

I had to learn Latin in school and I couldn't stand it. People say it's not difficult or complex but it's too complex for me. English is easy and lovely. I don't speak any other languages. German, English and Latin, that's it. :)

Can you really speak Latin, I mean freely? That`s awesome:thumb001:

[Tarja]

I learned French for 5 years at school, and still couldn't even hold a conversation with a toddler.

I never had any interest in French so I didn't pick anything up in all of that time. Quite embarrassing, really. :D I thought that it had killed any potential love I may have had for languages. However, I took an interest in Swedish and started learning it earlier this year, and since finding out most of my ancestry is from Sweden I became even more motivated. Its proven to be quite easy so far :) it sounds nice and is nice to speak, though I imagine I must have a horribly thick accent. I've got books for German too and hope to take that up some time soon. I spoke a little bit of German when I was there in July this year and people seemed to understand me fairly well. :P

So, I'd have to say that French was the hardest, though only because I wasn't interested. If I had applied myself it might've proven to be quite easy to pick up. Motivation is key!

[Absinthe]

So, I'd have to say that French was the hardest, though only because I wasn't interested. If I had applied myself it might've proven to be quite easy to pick up. Motivation is key!

100% agreed :D

[Hussar]

Russian.

Now i try (better, i'm forced)to speak it everyday. Stress........

[morski]

I've so far studied English, German and Russian. Russian takes the first place- very complex grammar:(. I understand a lot but can`t produce coherent sentences on my own.

[Caeruleus]

I think that chinese is pretty hard to learn (I never tried but sounds quite difficult and very annoying).

[Sylvanus]

Hungarian, no doubt.

Impossible sounds:

ty (like Charpentier),
gy (like adieu),
ly (just in dialect, like russian kalinka)
zs (like givenchy)
dz (like italian zero)
a (like swedish Dalarna)

Impossible grammar: agglutinativ language more suffix than the latin or ancient greek.

[Riki]

I speak,English,French,Spanish,Italian and my own of course Portuguese.

From this,French.Although don't enjoy the language very much,and this can play a role in me thinking that was the hardest.

One note on the Portuguese Language. Difficult or not?I don't know.But I can say no foreigner can pronounce It properly.Even after decades of living in Portugal.

[Leliana]

Can you really speak Latin, I mean freely? That`s awesome:thumb001:
No no, I don't speak Latin freely. I said it's too complex and I failed in school in this topic. I got the grade 5 with lots of luck. :p Being bad in Latin is not helpful when you are a student in a Catholic Girls School.

Meluis est enim fidels ignorantia quam temeraria scientia. Nam quod iuventute noin discitur, in matura aetate nescitur! :D

My favourite Latin saying is: Legi, intellexi, condemnavi! ;)

[Siginulfo]

Latin, no doubt

[Damião de Góis]

One note on the Portuguese Language. Difficult or not?I don't know.But I can say no foreigner can pronounce It properly.Even after decades of living in Portugal.

I think Balkanics are a notable exception on this.

[Foxy]

I don't understand the other Italians who say that Latin is difficult. It's a bit complex but not difficult. Most words are like in Italian, it changes only the grammar. Old Greek and German are far more difficult, to don't mention that I have studied for a short period also Old Norse and Old High German. If I had to study them seriously I think I would have suicided. Lucky I just needed to be able to explain their grammar.

[Siginulfo]

I don't understand the other Italians who say that Latin is difficult. It's a bit complex but not difficult. Most words are like in Italian, it changes only the grammar. Old Greek and German are far more difficult, to don't mention that I have studied for a short period also Old Norse and Old High German. If I had to study them seriously I think I would have suicided. Lucky I just needed to be able to explain their grammar.

In fact I referred to the grammar

[Han Cholo]

Arabic and their shitty alphabet are one of the most hard to learn. I only speak Portuguese, Spanish and English. I used to know some German back then and didn't seem much more complex or harder than English (the pronounciation was in fact easier.)

I can understand and write Portuguese 100% but the pronounciation it's a bit hard to immitate, like other users said.

[Eliades]

German when I was 14-15.

[Riki]

I think Balkanics are a notable exception on this.

Yes,notable exception.Perhaps the sh sounds helps.

[Turkophagos]

Yes,notable exception.Perhaps the sh sounds helps.

The L sound too. It's the same with the Balkan Slavic, Northern Greek and Turkish one.