Dutch lesbians raising Turkish boy go into hiding

[adsız]

15 March 2013 /AP, AMSTERDAM
A Dutch lesbian couple have gone into hiding with their foster son after the boy's biological parents said on television in Turkey that they object to the pair taking care of their child.
The matter is threatening to overshadow an official visit by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan to the Netherlands next week. Lodewijk Asscher, the Dutch vice prime minister, told reporters Friday that the issue is an internal Dutch matter and that political interference from Turkey is "inappropriate."

The 9-year-old boy identified by his first name, Yunus, was removed from his biological parents' care - in the Netherlands - while he was still a baby, and eventually placed in the care of the lesbian couple, who live in The Hague.

His biological mother, Nurgül Azeroğlu, appeared on a Turkish television program earlier this month and called on Erdoğan to intervene in the case. She acknowledged having accidentally dropped the child from a poorly fastened carrying bag once - apparently part of the reason he was removed from her care.

Dutch newspaper NRC Handelsblad reported that two other children were also to be taken away from the family in 2008, but they then traveled to Turkey to prevent that from happening.

Prominent Turkish politicians have recently spoken out against children of Turkish ancestry being raised by Christians, homosexuals, or others whose values are rejected by their biological parents.

Asscher praised the foster parents for taking on a "child in danger" and defended Dutch social service policies.

"The selection of a foster family in the Netherlands is a careful process," he said. "We don't choose foster parents on the basis of race or heritage, but on whether a child is in good hands with them."

Child social services in The Hague said there was no specific threat against Yunus or his foster parents, but he has been kept home from school as a precaution since the interview aired.

The Hague Youth Services Agency has decided it is better for Yunus and his foster parents "to stay at another address for a time, partly in connection with the visit of the prime minister next week," spokeswoman Tanja van Dijk said in a telephone interview with national broadcaster NOS . "For safety, and also because of the quiet that both Yunus and his foster parents of course now need."

Asscher, who repeated several times at his weekly news conference that Yunus had been "in danger" before he was taken into foster care, said it is "exceptionally sad" that the boy and his foster family are now in hiding.

"It's not right. People who are willing to take care of somebody else's child deserve our admiration," he said.

Todayszaman


Massive child abuse at Amsterdam day care centres :
http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/massive-child-abuse-amsterdam-day-care-centres

The Facts of Child abuse in the Netherlands :
http://www.euxonline.com/the-facts-of-child-abuse-in-the-netherlands/

Combating child abuse and neglect in The Netherlands
http://www.youthpolicy.nl/yp/Youth-Policy/Publications-of-the-Netherlands-Youth-Institute/Combating-child-abuse-and-neglect-in-The-Netherlands

[Sikeliot]

They can get over it. It's not their child anymore, they gave him up.

[Lorene]

Netherlands is a society where women are respected and valued, which should not be compared to a backward country like Turkey.


Turkey - Bulletin Of The Oppression Of Women in Islam
http://bulletinoftheoppressionofwomen.com/category/countries/turkey/

[Partizan]

Netherlands is a society where women are respected and valued, which should not be compared to a backward country like Turkey.


Turkey - Bulletin Of The Oppression Of Women in Islam
http://bulletinoftheoppressionofwomen.com/category/countries/turkey/

:picard1:

Drawing conclusions based on one maniac. Turkish women were granted with political rights earlier than French and Swiss ones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_suffrage#Summary

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_women%27s_suffrage#1930s

Please don't talk from other side of Atlantic without knowing anything.

[adsız]

They can get over it. It's not their child anymore, they gave him up.

They did not .
The kid was taken from them and given to a lesbian couple.

[Herr Abubu]

"Values". I hate that word. It has no meaning. Not dropping babies would be one of my values if I had any.


:picard1:

Drawing conclusions based on one maniac. Turkish women were granted with political rights earlier than French and Swiss ones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_suffrage#Summary

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_women%27s_suffrage#1930s

Please don't know from other side of Atlantic without knowing anything.

Irrelevant. Women still have far more rights and are generally treated far better in France and Switzerland today -- and surely in the past -- than in Turkey. The same could be said in regards to the treatment of children in the Netherlands versus Turkey.

[Partizan]

"Irrelevant. Women still have far more rights and are generally treated far better in France and Switzerland today -- and surely in the past -- than in Turkey. The same could be said in regards to the treatment of children in the Netherlands versus Turkey.

Do you think Turkey is somewhere like Iran or Saudi Arabia :crazy: Turkey is a secular country.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Yeah..Finally we have one single female member in TA from whole South Amerika and she is preaching us about womens position in my country .:rolleyes:

[adsız]

Yeah..Finally we have one single female member in TA from South Amerika and she is preaching us about womens position in my country .:rolleyes:

Loki must be looking for these types for so long time... :)

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

Netherlands is a society where women are respected and valued, which should not be compared to a backward country like Turkey.


Turkey - Bulletin Of The Oppression Of Women in Islam
http://bulletinoftheoppressionofwomen.com/category/countries/turkey/

yes they value women in the netherlands, each one has a price at the window :P


lol anyway yeah Netherlands is a liberal country and a modern country in terms of sexuality it is the most modern country of all of them, if they moved to the Netherlands no one would care if they raised the child, because much crazier things happen every day in Holland

[Lorene]

yes they value women in the netherlands, each one has a price at the window :P

As long I disagree with prostitution they are protected by law in case of agression/harassament and have the right of choice.
The same don't happen in Turkey or even in Brazil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0hFCUgegJI


anyway yeah Netherlands is a liberal country and a modern country in terms of sexuality it is the most modern country of all of them, if they moved to the Netherlands no one would care if they raised the child, because much crazier things happen every day in Holland
But obviously not insane and criminal like that, I bet.

Turkey - Bulletin Of The Oppression Of Women in Islam
http://bulletinoftheoppressionofwomen.com/category/countries/turkey/

[adsız]

This is in Turkish but you can hear children cry:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeowLY3_Ofg&noredirect=1

[Baluarte]

Fun to see that the club of airhead dimwit girls is more geographically diverse now. We have Migla for Europe, 2012JD for North America and now Lorene for South America.

We're missing: 1) Black african girl
2) Maghrebian girl
3) East Asian girl
4) Central Asian Turkic girl

(and perhaps IM's female equivalent to step up for India)

Epikness....


And on topic. I'm really sorry for the Turkish kid (kids are innocent) being raised by a couple of repressed Dutch freaks.

[Hayalet]

They can get over it. It's not their child anymore, they gave him up.
From the article:


The 9-year-old boy identified by his first name, Yunus, was removed from his biological parents' care - in the Netherlands - while he was still a baby, and eventually placed in the care of the lesbian couple, who live in The Hague.

[Partizan]

This is in Turkish but you can hear children cry:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeowLY3_Ofg&noredirect=1

I remember first seeing this news(I was 9 y.o. back then) and my parents did not say anything different than Sikeliot.(They believed that there was really a violence case) But beside health document which supports there was not violence, sincerely crying of the mother is enough...

P.S: I used to be neutral about homosexual couples adopting children but this video turned my opinion to negative.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Unfortunately same happens to Natives in USA their children are taken for silly reasons and adopted by white families that's what I heard from a native..
I thing that is another humanistic act for bringing civilisation to non whites .

[adsız]

Unfortunately same happens to Natives in USA their children are taken for silly reasons and adopted by white families that's what I heard from a native..
I thing that is another humanistic act for bringing civilisation to non whites .

Then, assimilation process is not completed yet.

[Styggnacke]

Unfortunately same happens to Natives in USA their children are taken for silly reasons and adopted by white families that's what I heard from a native..
I thing that is another humanistic act for bringing civilisation to non whites .
Do you know that this forum is explicitly dedicated to European culture and matters? However, you hate Europeans and white people, while you admire primitive Siberian and Indian tribes. Still, for some reason, you have posted over 2000 posts here in less than a year. Seriously, is something wrong with you?

[Herr Abubu]

Do you think Turkey is somewhere like Iran or Saudi Arabia :crazy: Turkey is a secular country.

Is it a habit of yours to reply others without addressing the points they make? This is is a straw-man. A cheap tactic. For some reason, I predicted such a response. Nothing I said implied that Turkey is on the level of Iran or Saudi Arabia. That doesn't imply that the situation is perfect, though. The secularism and the general situation of anything that has to do with human rights in Turkey pales in comparison to countries like the Netherlands, Switzerland and France. Turkey is in fact far from being a secular state. Formally it is, but not in terms of legislation and especially not Turkish society. The current Turkish government has also pushed for anti-secularist laws, such as making blasphemy illegal. That's not secular.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Do you know that this forum is explicitly dedicated to European culture and matters? However, you hate Europeans and white people, while you admire primitive Siberian and Indian tribes. Still, for some reason, you have posted over 2000 posts here in less than a year. Seriously, is something wrong with you?

So you have no problem when some people call Non European people chimps etc but you don't like my admiration to indigenious people..Is hating on others is a necessary part of European identity ? I don't think so..TA is not Stormfront ..I am sure there are other people who do not like what happens to these people .

[Partizan]

Is it a habit of yours to reply others without addressing the points they make? This is is a straw-man. A cheap tactic. For some reason, I predicted such a response.

What I mean is, Turkey is one of very few countries where has secularism as a law. So, if you have some bias on Turkey due to viewing there as a stereotypical Middle Eastern country, you are wrong.


Nothing I said implied that Turkey is on the level of Iran or Saudi Arabia. That doesn't imply that the situation is perfect, though. The secularism and the general situation of anything that has to do with human rights in Turkey pales in comparison to countries like the Netherlands, Switzerland and France.

Again, I just wanted to see if you view women rights' in Turkey negatively just because of a stereotype of Middle East. Actually nobody claims that Turkey is a 1.st World country but just because of some individual things(like article Lorene posted), don't judge Turkey.


Turkey is in fact far from being a secular state. Formally it is, but not in terms of legislation and especially not Turkish society. The current Turkish government has also pushed for anti-secularist laws, such as making blasphemy illegal. That's not secular.

:picard1:

Source? My father is atheist but not fined due to that :rofl:

[Kemalisté]

Erdogan is trying to save a child from a lesbian couple in the Netherlands as a government policy, man dude has nothing else to do as it seems there is no problem in the country...

Another example of tons of contradictions of him; here he can be seen promising full rights for the homosexuals:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bp6grWsIJA

[Kemalisté]

Turkey is in fact far from being a secular state. Formally it is, but not in terms of legislation and especially not Turkish society.

Now the worst part; cite those claims.

[Herr Abubu]

What I mean is, Turkey is one of very few countries where has secularism as a law. So, if you have some bias on Turkey due to viewing there as a stereotypical Middle Eastern country, you are wrong.

Your accusations are unfounded. That Turkey is below those countries in terms of basically everything doesn't imply that it's Middle Eastern.


Again, I just wanted to see if you view women rights' in Turkey negatively just because of a stereotype of Middle East. Actually nobody claims that Turkey is a 1.st World country but just because of some individual things(like article Lorene posted), don't judge Turkey.

See above. What I argued against is that you argue that women's rights are optimal since Turkey gave women suffrage earlier than Switzerland and France, which isn't a logical argument nor true. There's nothing that makes Turkey above criticism, I'll judge Turkey and any other country as much as I like to, and I encourage everyone to do so as well. The point is that the criticism should be substantial, which in this case it is.


:picard1:

Source? My father is atheist but not fined due to that :rofl:

Do you know what blasphemy is? Or do you know what blasphemy is but -- despite previous comments -- cling on to fallacious arguments? Being atheist isn't blasphemy. This is a formal logical fallacy called a non sequitur. However, it seems that in Turkey it is indeed blasphemy to be an atheist. Just ask Fazil Say. Not only is blasphemy illegal in Turkey - Turkey is also trying to push its own blasphemy laws on others. But sources you say?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20598262
http://www.euronews.com/2012/10/18/turkish-musician-faces-twitter-blasphemy-charges/
http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2012/09/19/comment-calls-for-international-blasphemy-law-must-be-r
http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/2009/03/08/t13.html

You need a good lesson in logic, because whereas I know what my statements imply, it seems that you don't. It would save me the trouble of correcting you.

[Kemalisté]

The existence of blasphemy law can bee seen in a bunch of European/Western countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law

Now; just because the government is acting arbitrarily regarding insults toward religion does not mean there is blasphemy law in Turkey. Governments are temporary, policies change as they change as well. Turkey will not lose its secularism just because there is a party sensitive about religions in power. Just like the UK did not lose its democracy although it had Margaret Thatcher in power once upon a time.

[Herr Abubu]

Now the worst part; cite those claims.

See above. A secular state is a state where religion and state are two separate entities and where neither meddles with the affairs of the other. In Turkey, the state meddles in religious affairs by having laws against blasphemy f.e. Therefore, Turkey is not a secular state. Moreover, the Turkish society is highly religious and religious norms rule, which are are then enforced by state. How beautiful a perfectly logical statement is!

This is my warrior ode to logic:

Logic, o logic why are thou so beautiful
everytime thou I meet I am perplexed
yet so many thou seem to mull
through my mind I thou have annexed
thine light shines on me forever brightly
and forever am I thine
and thine joyous gasses forever will I breathe
this shall I do ever so lightly
forever hath thine mind influnced mine
without thou my mind would forever seethe

[Herr Abubu]

The existence of blasphemy law can bee seen in a bunch of European/Western countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law

Now; just because the government is acting arbitrarily regarding insults toward religion does not mean there is blasphemy law in Turkey. Governments are temporary, policies change as they change as well. Turkey will not lose its secularism just because there is a party sensitive about religions in power. Just like the UK did not lose its democracy although it had Margaret Thatcher in power once upon a time.

Yes, which is very unfortunate. Coincidentally, this is either because they're remnants of older, less secular times, or in most cases newly adopted laws which are there owing to pressure from Muslim states and immigrants. There's a reason insulting Muslims isn't fair while Christianity gets poked at all of the time.

[Kemalisté]

See above. A secular state is a state where religion and state are two separate entities and where neither meddles with the affairs of the other. In Turkey, the state meddles in religious affairs by having laws against blasphemy f.e. Therefore, Turkey is not a secular state. Moreover, the Turkish society is highly religious and religious norms rule, which are are then enforced by state. How beautiful a perfectly logical statement is!

Cite your claim that there is a blasphemy law in Turkey. Here is the list of countries that have this law:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law

As for the Turkish people being religious; not true. The majority is not practising, but still, what's an individual being religious to do with the separation of religion from the state anyway ? if you mean that Turkish people in general are not in favour of secularism; see this link:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/more-secular-green-turkey-wanted-poll.aspx?pageID=238&nid=35272

Now please; think twice before talking out of your little arse.

[Kemalisté]

Yes, which is very unfortunate. Coincidentally, this is either because they're remnants of older, less secular times, or in most cases newly adopted laws which are there owing to pressure from Muslim states and immigrants. There's a reason insulting Muslims isn't fair while Christianity gets poked at all of the time.

In Turkey nobody has been punished just because they insulted the religion. But some people are sensitive about the religions, and when they see an insult toward their religion, they prosecute against them individually. But the media, as expected, is selling this as if they were jailed for that.

[Partizan]

Your accusations are unfounded. That Turkey is below those countries in terms of basically everything doesn't imply that it's Middle Eastern.

:picard1: I just pointed out a common bias. And of course I might have thought that you are biased on that way as well.


See above. What I argued against is that you argue that women's rights are optimal since Turkey gave women suffrage earlier than Switzerland and France, which isn't a logical argument nor true. There's nothing that makes Turkey above criticism, I'll judge Turkey and any other country as much as I like to, and I encourage everyone to do so as well. The point is that the criticism should be substantial, which in this case it is.

Disprove me than. BTW I didn't say Netherlands, I said Switzerland.

Also I am not against criticism. I am against that "Look, a man killed and raped two tourists, then Turkey is a backward place!!!!1111" logic, which Lorene showed.


Do you know what blasphemy is? Or do you know what blasphemy is but -- despite previous comments -- cling on to fallacious arguments? Being atheist isn't blasphemy. This is a formal logical fallacy called a non sequitur. However, it seems that in Turkey it is indeed blasphemy to be an atheist. Just ask Fazil Say. Not only is blasphemy illegal in Turkey - Turkey is also trying to push its own blasphemy laws on others. But sources you say?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20598262
http://www.euronews.com/2012/10/18/turkish-musician-faces-twitter-blasphemy-charges/
http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2012/09/19/comment-calls-for-international-blasphemy-law-must-be-r
http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/2009/03/08/t13.html

:picard1:

There is not a blasphemy law but a quite vague "insulting to values" law, which is present in half of European countries.


You need a good lesson in logic, because whereas I know what my statements imply, it seems that you don't. It would save me the trouble of correcting you.

I know what I am defending, however it is you who is just pigheaded.

[Herr Abubu]

:picard1: I just pointed out a common bias. And of course I might have thought that you are biased on that way as well.

What you're trying to say is that you made a comment that has nothing to do with the topic. I never claimed Turkey is the Middle East, just worse off than aforementioned countries.


Disprove me than.

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-07-24/world/turkey.women.protest_1_progressive-laws-turkish-government-protection-order?_s=PM:WORLD
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-275771--judge-says-rape-victims-mother-should-have-watched-daughter.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/26/world/europe/women-see-worrisome-shift-in-turkey.html?_r=2&
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/09/reape-abortion-fight-womens-rights-turkey
http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/06/09/turkey-backward-step-women-s-rights
http://www.ansamed.info/ansamed/en/news/sections/generalnews/2011/12/29/visualizza_new.html_19204055.html

I shouldn't even have to bother to argue for truisms, yet here I am. Logic and evidence is on my side, in any case.


BTW I didn't say Netherlands, I said Switzerland.

You said Switzerland and France, but since this thread is only relevant to the Netherlands, I made an assumption. It doesn't matter though.


Also I am not against criticism. I am against that "Look, a man killed and raped two tourists, then Turkey is a backward place!!!!1111" logic, which Lorene showed.

That's reasonable. Yet it's not an isolated case, there were myriads of similar articles on that blog, and in general.


:picard1:

There is not a blasphemy law but a quite vague "insulting to values" law, which is present in half of European countries.

It's a blasphemy law, which is duly enforced as such. They're for the most part not actually blasphemy laws, and those that are there are rarely (if ever) used, except for in countries like Greece, I believe.


I know what I am defending, however it is you who is just pigheaded.

Knowing what you defend doesn't make it logical. Is this an attempt to prove my statements for me?

[billErobreren]

So a pair of lesbians wanted to raise a child & wound up settling for a Turkish kid that had shittier parents which was the reason they took him away in the first place...get to the bad part

[The Lawspeaker]

I don't agree with the idea of homosexuals raising children. However: the biological parents mistreated their child and it was taken away from them for a good reason. They no longer have any rights and foreigners should never try to set our laws here in our own home because we are the masters in our home and your hosts.. you're just the guest. Let me tell you this: I believe the Turkish family should see their passports and assets seized and they should be deported. Why ? If they don't value Dutch justice they should not be here in this country. Here we make the rules as we have done since the day we kicked out the Spanish..

So Turks (or any other immigrant for that matter): keep your dirty hands off our goddamn dykes. Plenty of people (including myself) don't like them either but if you foreigners don't like how things work here then kindly gtfo.

And if the family and other Turks want to threaten these Lesbians I think that the government should act most strongly and send Marines to protect their home from them and they should be issued with live ammunition.

[The Lawspeaker]

And I will have move this thread because it is a Dutch internal affair and it has nothing to do with Turkey.