Are Hungarians Europeans?

[Nationalitist]

I vote no.

[Äike]

Non-Europeans surrounded by a sea of Europeans? Hungarians are Europeans and genetically similar to their neighbors. Your statement lacks logic.

[Hweinlant]

Hungary is beautifull. I have visited both Budabest and small rural towns. Winehouses of the countryside are s.p.e.c.i.a.l. Too much gypsies tho'. Gypsy sausage is brilliant anyway, dry enough. Good with Tokaji wine.

[Poltergeist]

Are Slovenians human?

[Hweinlant]

Are Slovenians human?

I forgotted to add that Baalinka is raddest stuff ever. Dont drink that with the breakfast :thumb001:

[Nationalitist]

First of all, I will re-edit the map I posted (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=84897&postcount=37) in some other thread a little.

http://i26.tinypic.com/2lpfrq.png

This is better.


Non-Europeans surrounded by a sea of Europeans? Hungarians are Europeans and genetically similar to their neighbors. Your statement lacks logic.

Genetically simmilar? It's possible, ancestry of Hungarians is largely Slavic, particularly in western Hungary. Names like Balaton and Pecs derive from Slavic Blatnograd and Peč for example.

Anyway, Europe is not defined by genes. It is their spirit that makes them alien to their (European) Slavic neighbours and other Europeans. Of course they are surrounded by a sea of Europeans, as you say, but so is Albania. Or immigrant ghettos in European cities if you want. Or even better, Gypsies.

[Mesrine]

Are Slovenians human?

They are part Hungarian, so they are part human, yes.

[Poltergeist]

slave


Origin:

1250–1300; ME sclave < ML sclāvus (masc.), sclāva (fem.) slave, special use of Sclāvus Slav, so called because Slavs were commonly enslaved in the early Middle Ages

[Nationalitist]

This is not true. It derives from Slavic world Slava

[Poltergeist]

This is not true. It derives from Slavic world Slava

Irrelevant. "Slave" is derived from "Slav" (an ethnonym). Wherefrom "Slav" is derived, is for some other discussion.

[Jarl]

Hungarians and Khanty! The Yugra!

[Poltergeist]

Hungarians and Khanty! The Yugra!

Polonia = Sarmatia = Iran :D

[Radojica]

Irrelevant. "Slave" is derived from "Slav" (an ethnonym). Wherefrom "Slav" is derived, is for some other discussion.

So basically, following this logic all slaves in the world were actually named by Slavs...Wow, i did not know we had so much linguistic influence from the beginning and during the history of human civilization :eek:

[Æmeric]

There was an Hungarian moderator late last year - I can't recall his username. But he posted his pics & if the Nazis were in charge of Europe, he would have made an excellent candidate for aryanization.

[Mesrine]

Hungarians and Khanty! The Yugra!

Where is Zemelmete when you need her the most... :D

[Hweinlant]

Proto-Magyars of Sargat-culture (South of Ural mountains) :

http://i29.tinypic.com/2hmob2u.jpg

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sargat-Kultur

[Poltergeist]

So basically, following this logic all slaves in the world were actually named by Slavs...Wow, i did not know we had so much linguistic influence from the beginning and during the history of human civilization :eek:

no, just the slaves of Europe.

[Loddfafner]

I don't doubt that Hungary is a European country, but from the perspective of a traveler who has explored much of the continent, there is something about that whole corner from Slovakia to Hungary and into Romania and the former Yugoslavia that more closely resembles Latin America than the Northern and Western countries.

Some of this is positive especially the lower level of technology such that there are still horse-drawn carriages in normal use. But there is also a noticeable level of corruption as with those train conductors who find some trivial fault with one's ticket as an excuse to extract a bribe. It is not just the gypsies who cheat tourists. The constant petty ethnic squabbles reveal a low level of political maturity. Maybe a Hapsburg restoration is in order.

[Radojica]

no, just the slaves of Europe.

Yes, yes, of course :rolleyes2:

[Æmeric]

I don't doubt that Hungary is a European country, but from the perspective of a traveler who has explored much of the continent, there is something about that whole corner from Slovakia to Hungary and into Romania and the former Yugoslavia that more closely resembles Latin America than the Northern and Western countries.

Some of this is positive especially the lower level of technology such that there are still horse-drawn carriages in normal use. But there is also a noticeable level of corruption as with those train conductors who find some trivial fault with one's ticket as an excuse to extract a bribe. It is not just the gypsies who cheat tourists. The constant petty ethnic squabbles reveal a low level of political maturity. Maybe a Hapsburg restoration is in order.

Most of that area you described was part of the Ottoman Empire. Negative Turkish influence?

[Nationalitist]

Germanics sold some Slavs as Slaves throughout Europe. Only chauvinists like Košut consider Slavs as inferior because of this. My country was exposed to germanization and magyarization and nobility was mostly foreing through most of our history, I am aware of that. As a result of this opression we developed healthy nationalism and we have no shamefull imperialistic past. Germanics may have enslaved some Slavs, but their countries are now invaded by immigrants, Hungarians occupied my land but got owned in Trianon and they can do nothing about it (except posting some ancient maps on internet and talk about their "glorious" past). I guess there's justice in this world after all. :P

[Radojica]

In case i don't the starter of this thread i would think he is f**** in his brain, but knowing him :laugh::dielaughing:xD and you all fell into his trap :wink

[Poltergeist]

The constant petty ethnic squabbles reveal a low level of political maturity.

It's called nationalism and without it Europe wouldn't be Europe. It's not confined to eastern Europe, Carpathian Basin and the Balkans, it's the principle spread all over Europe, albeit manifesting itself in different varieties, depending on local circumstances.


Maybe a Hapsburg restoration is in order.

If you have your nigga globalist pharaoh, transcending all nations, it doesn't mean every area should have some local form of this monstrosity.

[Poltergeist]

Most of that area you described was part of the Ottoman Empire. Negative Turkish influence?

Ottomanism, late abolition of feudalism and Communism.

[Nationalitist]

I don't doubt that Hungary is a European country, but from the perspective of a traveler who has explored much of the continent, there is something about that whole corner from Slovakia to Hungary and into Romania and the former Yugoslavia that more closely resembles Latin America than the Northern and Western countries.

Some of this is positive especially the lower level of technology such that there are still horse-drawn carriages in normal use. But there is also a noticeable level of corruption as with those train conductors who find some trivial fault with one's ticket as an excuse to extract a bribe. It is not just the gypsies who cheat tourists. The constant petty ethnic squabbles reveal a low level of political maturity. Maybe a Hapsburg restoration is in order.

Yeah right, it's still 18th century "here" (you talk as if Slovakia, Hungary, FY and rest of Balkans share something in common). :rolleyes:

As for Habsburg restoration.. I guess this is the first time I have to agree with Košut. Habsburgs fuck you.

[Loyalist]

There was an Hungarian moderator late last year - I can't recall his username. But he posted his pics & if the Nazis were in charge of Europe, he would have made an excellent candidate for aryanization.

Arrow Cross, and yes, he was quite Europid (Corded/Nordid I believe was his classification). I miss him; his posts were good. He's a National Socialist and didn't appreciate the request for no Nazi avatars, so I guess that's why he left.

As for the Hungarians, it's hard to say. I've seen some who are fully Europid, and could easily pass for a Germanic, Slav, or other type of European. Others have shown clear signs of non-Europid admixture. For example, some Hungarian sisters I went to school with, along with their entire family, looked more like Mongol half-castes from the fringes of Siberia than Europeans. There's also a horrifying number of Gypsies in Hungary, although what impact they've had on Hungarian society, as well as the level of intermixture, I can't say. A disproportionate number of famous "Hungarians" also tend to be Jews, especially actors, musicians, writers, and politicians. The prevalence of Jews might taint the average person's image of a typical Hungarian. That said, I've always been of the understanding that the Magyars descend from Huns who mixed with the various European peoples they encountered before, during, and after the establishment of their kingdom. This would explain the exotic looks Hungarians sometimes display. Whether that makes them non-European is the question.

Speaking of Arrow Cross, the Hungarians were some of the most ardent National Socialists and racial purists of the era. The Arrow Cross Party was staunchly anti-Semitic, agrarian, pro-eugenics, and incorporated ancient Magyar symbolism into its platform. I'm not aware of any objections to Hungarians on a racial basis by the Nazis, and, given that they formed part of the same state for some time, there must have been Hungarian influence in Austria in some form or another. Hungary fought as part of the Axis, and there was a Hungarian SS volunteer unit (25th Grenadier Division Hunyadi).

It's a coincidence that this thread should be posted today, as I was thinking about Béla Lugosi earlier, and how there is something vaguely Asiatic about his appearance. It's this picture that gets me, although it could just be his expression and the angle of the shot influencing my thoughts:

http://i27.tinypic.com/28rpr2s.jpg

[Mesrine]

In case i don't the starter of this thread i would think he is f**** in his brain

Look who's talking. :D

[Brännvin]

Germanics may have enslaved some Slavs, but their countries are now invaded by immigrants, Hungarians occupied my land but got owned in Trianon and they can do nothing about it (except posting some ancient maps on internet and talk about their "glorious" past).

Not all "Germanics" have enslaved some Slavs, indeed Germans in central Europe assimilated some Slavs and also Balts (ancient Prussians), the opposite also happened, some Germanic people were assimilated into Slavic populations, such as Goths into Northern Poland.

Many immigrants in "Germanic countries" on now days are Slavs also, what difference does it make? Aren't they immigrants in anyway? They need to go to home too :coffee:

[Poltergeist]

Germanics sold some Slavs as Slaves throughout Europe. Only chauvinists like Košut consider Slavs as inferior because of this. My country was exposed to germanization and magyarization and nobility was mostly foreing through most of our history, I am aware of that. As a result of this opression we developed healthy nationalism and we have no shamefull imperialistic past. Germanics may have enslaved some Slavs, but their countries are now invaded by immigrants, Hungarians occupied my land but got owned in Trianon and they can do nothing about it (except posting some ancient maps on internet and talk about their "glorious" past). I guess there's justice in this world after all. :P

Stop talking about things you don't understand and go back to your wet dreams about the non-existent "Slovenian region" of Porabje.

[Absinthe]

Hungary is a county I haven't visited (yet) but I think very highly of its people and would certainly like to get more closely acquainted with its culture in the near future.

Frankly, I don't give a rat's excrement about this sort of questioning on who's European and who's not.

It seems we can't even agree on a single definition of "european-ess" and in the bottom line, who cares, a nation's worth exists independently of artificial definitions ;)

[Guapo]

The origins of the word "Slav" have been traced back to the word slovo, meaning "word." This would have distinguished Slavic people from others, implying that these people used "words" instead of "gibberish" used by other peoples living in Europe such as the term for Germans, which means "the mutes" - those who don't speak a Slavic language and are therefore unintelligible.

[Hrolf Kraki]

Non-Europeans surrounded by a sea of Europeans? Hungarians are Europeans and genetically similar to their neighbors. Your statement lacks logic.

No it doesn't. I can see his logic, albeit perhaps a bit misguided. Hungarians, as well as Estonians and Finns, speak non-Indo-european languages. The Huns migrated to Europe from the steppes of Asia. I see what he's getting at, but German tribes also came from the east. In fact, in Snorri Sturluson's Heimskringla, he describes the Ynglings (the Swedes) as coming from lands far east beyond Sviðjoð the Great (Russia).

The point of the matter is, I don't think you can call Hungarians (nor Finns and Estonians) non-European. They've been here for centuries. It's like deciding that everyone who came to Europe before a certain point in time is European, and those who came after aren't. Now that doesn't make any sense. Hungarians have had a major role in the shaping of Europe the last 2000 years.

[Nodens]

Smoking Gun.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Meyers_b11_s0476a.jpg

On a more serious note, the only way to answer the "Who is European?" question (for purpose of this forum) is to appeal to they who make the rules.

[Tabiti]

No, they are our Mongolian brothers, of course. We all belong to the great Central Asian steppes, but we want the lands of the mighty slavs and other aryans so much you can't defeat us!

[Jarl]

Germanics sold some Slavs as Slaves throughout Europe.

When? That's not true.

Slavs largely appear in sources in and after VIth century - when they flooded half of Europe. Together with Lombards they destroyed the Gepides, and for long centuries they constantly harassed the Byzantine Empire, colonising Illyria and parts of Greece. Procopius of Caesarea gives a detailed account of Slavic customs and warfare. Slavs who were taken prisoners by the Byznatine army were forced into slavery.

The term "slave" (sklavos/sklabos) comes from the Byzantine surces:

http://foreigndispatches.typepad.com/dispatches/2004/10/slav_an_etymolo.html


The derivation of the word slave encapsulates a bit of European history and explains why the two words slaves and Slavs are so similar; they are, in fact, historically identical. The word slave first appears in English around 1290, spelled sclave. The spelling is based on Old French esclave from Medieval Latin sclavus, “Slav, slave,” first recorded around 800. Sclavus comes from Byzantine Greek sklabos (pronounced sklävs) “Slav,” which appears around 580.


And it appears much later in Germanic languages, as a loanword. Germanics originally called the Slavs as Vends (Venden/Venedi), which is probably a loanword too, yet much older. We know very little about the Germanic-Slavic relations in antiquity. While in Medieval ages there was a constant conflict between the Saxons and the Obodrites, the Franks and the Avaro-Slavic khaganate.

[Loki]

Smoking Gun.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Meyers_b11_s0476a.jpg



Funny map. ;) It's mostly linguistic divisions, even though it is titled "ethnographic". If we take this seriously, it would mean Iranians and Afghans are in, and Finns, Estonians and Hungarians are out. I'm sure Hors wouldn't mind. :thumb001:

[Nodens]

Funny map. ;) It's mostly linguistic divisions, even though it is titled "ethnographic". If we take this seriously, it would mean Iranians and Afghans are in, and Finns, Estonians and Hungarians are out. I'm sure Hors wouldn't mind. :thumb001:

Heh, yeah. So many of the details are good, but the big picture is bizarre.

[Spaniard_Truth]

About 500 Hungarian faces:

http://racialreality.110mb.com/hungarian.html

There seems to be a multitude of types, but the overall impression is European:

Some are unambiguously European:

http://www.parlament.hu/kepv/kepek/e185.jpg

http://www.parlament.hu/kepv/kepek/m024.jpg

http://www.parlament.hu/kepv/kepek/m028.jpg

Some are unambiguously Mongoloid:

http://www.parlament.hu/kepv/kepek/k055.jpg

http://www.parlament.hu/kepv/kepek/f190.jpg

http://www.parlament.hu/kepv/kepek/k236.jpg

While others could pass for Turks:

http://www.parlament.hu/kepv/kepek/g370.jpg

http://www.parlament.hu/kepv/kepek/f001.jpg

http://www.parlament.hu/kepv/kepek/e006.jpg

[Tabiti]

About 500 Hungarian faces:

http://racialreality.110mb.com/hungarian.html

There seems to be only minor Central Asian influence.

Except, of course, in this case:

http://www.parlament.hu/kepv/kepek/f190.jpg
There are gypsies in Hungary, which may show pseudo Asian features.

Politicians aren't good example for the racial composition of countries, imo.

[EWtt]

And it appears much later in Germanic languages, as a loanword. Germanics originally called the Slavs as Vends (Venden/Venedi), which is probably a loanword too, yet much older.

The Finnic word for Russia (Est. Venemaa; Fin. Venäjä) also comes from the Vends.

Speaking of slaves, the Baltic-Finnic word for slave is "orja" and it derives from "Aryan"... :p

[Nationalitist]

Speaking of Arrow Cross, the Hungarians were some of the most ardent National Socialists and racial purists of the era. The Arrow Cross Party was staunchly anti-Semitic, agrarian, pro-eugenics, and incorporated ancient Magyar symbolism into its platform. I'm not aware of any objections to Hungarians on a racial basis by the Nazis, and, given that they formed part of the same state for some time, there must have been Hungarian influence in Austria in some form or another. Hungary fought as part of the Axis, and there was a Hungarian SS volunteer unit (25th Grenadier Division Hunyadi).

Arrow Cross racists were scum, but they don't really represent Hungarian nationalism, they and (their type of "nationalism") were marginal before WW2. Hungarians were fierce liberals like Kossuth, they also had a lot of support from Jews. Their liberal nationalism considered other ethnic groups living in Hungary as "Hungarian", as they defined Hungarian national identity with Hungarian state.

As I explained in some other thread already:


Hungarians were never European nor nationalist, just a bunch of Asians posing as Europeans and chauvinists posing as nationalists. There never was any concept of Hungarian nation, you were identifying Hungarian nation with Hungarian state. Natio Hungarica is more a geographic concept than national. A person belonged to Hungarian "nation" if he or she resided under the authority of the king of Hungary, in the lands of the Hungarian crown. That's why you considered Slovenian nationalists as "traitors of Hungary" even though they never considered themselves Hungarian in the first place.

You were also fierce liberals, including your hero Lajos. In Prekmurje, Hungarian liberals were promoting liberal anti-nationalist ideas and were financed by Jews from Budapest. Even today Hungary is a chauvinist country and ignores the right of Slovenian minority there (in Slovenia Hungarian minority has more support by our traitor government).

..

One Slovenian nationalist fighting against Magyarization said that Germans and Hungarians have no clue what nationalism is, since German nationalism is based on race and Hungarian nationalism is based on state. Slovenian nationalism on the other hand was based on the concept of nation and as such it was totally different from German racism or Hungarian state chauvinism. Košut doesn't have a clue about nationalism because his Hungary has no real nationalist tradition. Hungarian chauvinists want pre-Trianon borders even though in those regions they never were majority (with some exceptions). They were a minority in their own state. You can see that Košut doesn't even consider Slovaks as a nation. This is chauvinism, not nationalism (btw Slovaks have long history of true nationalist struggle, like Slovenians).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8d/Magyarorszag_1920.png/400px-Magyarorszag_1920.png

This whole Arrow Cross thing would be funny if they wouldn't kill innocent people. Racism was totally alien to Hungary before.

How europid Hungarians are is irrelevant and doesn't change their identity. It also doesn't change their long history of chauvinism.


Many immigrants in "Germanic countries" on now days are Slavs also, what difference does it make? Aren't they immigrants in anyway? They need to go to home too :coffee:

That won't happen.


When? That's not true.

Slavs largely appear in sources in and after VIth century - when they flooded half of Europe. Together with Lombards they destroyed the Gepides, and for long centuries they constantly harassed the Byzantine Empire, colonising Illyria and parts of Greece. Procopius of Caesarea gives a detailed account of Slavic customs and warfare. Slavs who were taken prisoners by the Byznatine army were forced into slavery.

The term "slave" (sklavos/sklabos) comes from the Byzantine surces:

http://foreigndispatches.typepad.com/dispatches/2004/10/slav_an_etymolo.html

And it appears much later in Germanic languages, as a loanword. Germanics originally called the Slavs as Vends (Venden/Venedi), which is probably a loanword too, yet much older. We know very little about the Germanic-Slavic relations in antiquity. While in Medieval ages there was a constant conflict between the Saxons and the Obodrites, the Franks and the Avaro-Slavic khaganate.

Well yes, you're right. The term Slav was indeed used by Byzantines sources and Germanics were calling Slavs "venden" or "windish" (in case of Slovenia). Anyway, Košut's "slavs = slaves" chauvinism is typical Hungarian blabbering. Maybe I should translate some Slovenian articles about Hungarian savages from the steppes of Asia and their atrocities against Slavic population in Pannonia.

[Brännvin]

That won't happen.


Only time will tell if who from us are right!

But don't you feel ashamed of its people being treated like second class citizen? ;)

[Rhobot]

Of course Hungarians are European. Hungary is right in the middle of Europe, and genetic studies don't exactly show Hungarians as outliers among European populations.
As for their language, if that is the problem, then you need to kick Finland and Estonia out of Europe too as they also speak Uralic languages.

[Mesrine]

Of course Hungarians are European. Hungary is right in the middle of Europe

Not really. The middle of geographical Europe is somewhere in Southern Germany, between the springs of the Rhine, Rhône and Danube.

[Cato]

:grumpy: To those of you who voted no, note my ancestry, and let's step outside for a chat...

[Rhobot]

Not really. The middle of geographical Europe is somewhere in Southern Germany, between the springs of the Rhine, Rhône and Danube.
My bad.
But Hungary has historically been considered Central Europe or Mitteleuropa.

[Mesrine]

My bad.
But Hungary has historically been considered Central Europe or Mitteleuropa.

For Romance people like me, it's Western Siberia. :P

[Stegura]

There are gypsies in Hungary, which may show pseudo Asian features.


Politicians aren't good example for the racial composition of countries, imo.

Are bikini contestants better representatives? :D

Some former Miss Balaton winners! :thumb001::thumb001:

2005

http://www.missbalaton.hu/2005_girls/06_gombosi_adrienn.jpg

2006

http://www.missbalaton.hu/2006_sites/girls/zimany/04.jpg

2007

http://www.missbalaton.hu/2007girls/05_finta2.jpg

2008

http://www.missbalaton.hu/BurgonyJulia/01.jpg

www.missbalaton.hu

[Tabiti]

Are bikini contestants better representatives?
Depends who is looking at them. Some males are ready to call all sexy, semi-naked women - Aryan :D

[ikki]

Heh, yeah. So many of the details are good, but the big picture is bizarre.

whee, so now north african immigration isnt a problem at all :D

Asinfact we could use more of those manlier aryans, who wont hesitate to kick around the feminised euro-boys. Lets decriminalise rape, so the superior culture of those turks, africans and other aryans can replace the weaklings...

:coffee:
..and all will remain aryan, just improved..

[RoyBatty]

Some of this is positive especially the lower level of technology such that there are still horse-drawn carriages in normal use. But there is also a noticeable level of corruption as with those train conductors who find some trivial fault with one's ticket as an excuse to extract a bribe. It is not just the gypsies who cheat tourists.

I was in Budapest some months ago and the hotel (4 star) charged me a "tourist tax" (additional to the hotel bill of course) which I apparently owed the state. At first I just laughed at the guy but eventually couldn't be bothered to argue the case and gave the clown his baksheesh.

Too many wiggers there, you're right. It's not only the gypsies. :thumbs up

[Poltergeist]

I was in Budapest some months ago and the hotel (4 star) charged me a "tourist tax" (additional to the hotel bill of course) which I apparently owed the state. At first I just laughed at the guy but eventually couldn't be bothered to argue the case and gave the clown his baksheesh.

Too many wiggers there, you're right. It's not only the gypsies. :thumbs up

Yes, especially white trash tourists from western Europe, with lack of manners, subliminal intelligence and no taste at all.

[RoyBatty]

The truth hurts. :p

[Absinthe]

I was in Budapest some months ago and the hotel (4 star) charged me a "tourist tax" (additional to the hotel bill of course) which I apparently owed the state. At first I just laughed at the guy but eventually couldn't be bothered to argue the case and gave the clown his baksheesh.

Too many wiggers there, you're right. It's not only the gypsies. :thumbs up
Are you sure you were in Hungary and not in Greece? :p

[Poltergeist]

The truth hurts. :p

That's right. The truth about the zoo of semi-human creatures called noisy western European tourists. And not only in Hungary. I've seen this zoo everywhere. Makes one abandon any ideas of racial superiority, if one might have entertained such.

Caveat: this doesn't mean I say there are no such creatures in Hungary.

[RoyBatty]

That's right. The truth about the zoo of semi-human creatures called noisy western European tourists. And not only in Hungary. I've seen this zoo everywhere. Makes one abandon any ideas of racial superiority, if one might have entertained such.

OK

[Poltergeist]

...

[Atlas]

No
Mission of Mercy, reality check
:rolleyes:


I have a feeling that my fellow countryman and reality check will get the boots.

[Absinthe]

That's right. The truth about the zoo of semi-human creatures called noisy western European tourists.
Coming from one of the greatest tourist attractions in Europe (oddly enough) I must say, that unless you are referring to a certain type of Brits that are a menace for even Britain itself, then we, as a tourist receiving country, pray to God for western European tourists and not Eastern European ones, or the aforementioned Brits, or Italians.

That is because they are the most quiet, civilized, clean and big-spending bunch of them all. ;)

Germans, Dutch, Scandinavians, Swiss, Belgians, etc are the best bunch of tourists one can hope for.

[Poltergeist]

Coming from one of the greatest tourist attractions in Europe (oddly enough) I must say, that unless you are referring to a certain type of Brits that are a menace for even Britain itself, then we, as a tourist receiving country, pray to God for western European tourists and not Eastern European ones, or the aforementioned Brits, or Italians.

That is because they are the most quiet, civilized, clean and big-spending bunch of them all. ;)

Germans, Dutch, Scandinavians, Swiss, Belgians, etc are the best bunch of tourists one can hope for.

I wasn't extolling eastern Europeans tourists.

[Hesperión]

Jó estét! :)

Hungars are not Turkish. They are Turkic and Uralic and European admixture but are a mix. Similar to Bulgars. Is interesting people. I think Germans will look more or less like Hungars after all mix couples of Turks and Germans.



Probable ancestors of Hungarian ethnic groups: an admixture analysis

C. R. GUGLIELMINO a1c1, A. DE SILVESTRI a2 and J. BERES a3
a1 Dipartimento di Genetica e Microbiologia, Università di Pavia, & Istituto di Genetica Biochimica ed Evoluzionistica – CNR, Pavia, Italy
a2 Dipartimento di Genetica e Microbiologia, Università di Pavia, Pavia, Italy
a3 National Center for Epidemiology, Dep. of Human Genetics and Teratology, Budapest, Hungary


Abstract

The history of Hungary starts in the 9th century with the arrival of the Magyars in the Carpathian Basin. They spoke, like modern Hungarians, an Uralic language belonging to the Finno-Ugric language group. Their original composition probably included Iranian and Turkish people, while other populations were already present in the territory (Avars, Slavs, Germans). Some of the Hungarian ethnic groups claim to be descendants of ancient Magyars settlers (such as the Örség), others of Huns, Turks or Iranians. We collected and compared the previously published gene frequencies of eight ethnic groups and seven hypothetical ancestral populations, including Uralics, applying a model of admixture. The results, most of which confirm historical hypotheses or the oral tradition, show that only one ethnic group (Örség) highly resembles the Uralic population.






Comparison of mtDNA haplogroups in Hungarians with four other European populations: A small incidence of descents with Asian origin

Edit Nádasi1 Email for edit.nadasi@aok.pte.hu, P. Gyűrűs2, Márta Czakó3, Judit Bene3, Sz. Kosztolányi4, Sz. Fazekas5, P. Dömösi5, B. Melegh3

1University of Pécs Department of Public Health and Preventive Medicine, Faculty of Medicine Pécs Hungary
2Petz Aladár County Hospital Győr Hungary
3University of Pécs Department of Medical Genetics and Child Development, Faculty of Medicine Pécs Hungary
4University of Pécs 1st Department of Internal Medicine, Faculty of Medicine Pécs Hungary
5University of Debrecen Department of Mathematics and Informatics Debrecen Hungary

Abstract

Hungarians are unique among the other European populations because according to history, the ancient Magyars had come from the eastern side of the Ural Mountains and settled down in the Carpathian basin in the 9th century AD. Since variations in the human mitochondrial genome (mtDNA) are routinely used to infer the histories of different populations, we examined the distribution of restriction fragment length polymorphism (RFLP) sites of the mtDNA in apparently healthy, unrelated Hungarian subjects in order to collect data on the genetic origin of the Hungarian population. Among the 55 samples analyzed, the large majority belonged to haplogroups common in other European populations, however, three samples fulfilled the requirements of haplogroup M. Since haplogroup M is classified as a haplogroup characteristic mainly for Asian populations, the presence of haplogroup M found in approximately 5% of the total suggests that an Asian matrilineal ancestry, even if in a small incidence, can be detected among modern Hungarians.


They also proud of their Turanic heritage

http://www.hunmagyar.org/
http://www.kurultaj.hu/

[Hrafn]

I vote no.

Did you made up that poll after what he wrote about Marulus ?

[Hrafn]

I don't doubt that Hungary is a European country, but from the perspective of a traveler who has explored much of the continent, there is something about that whole corner from Slovakia to Hungary and into Romania and the former Yugoslavia that more closely resembles Latin America than the Northern and Western countries.

Some of this is positive especially the lower level of technology such that there are still horse-drawn carriages in normal use. But there is also a noticeable level of corruption as with those train conductors who find some trivial fault with one's ticket as an excuse to extract a bribe. It is not just the gypsies who cheat tourists. The constant petty ethnic squabbles reveal a low level of political maturity. Maybe a Hapsburg restoration is in order.

I agree, although in reality I don't think that Habsburg Monarchy will ever happen again though.
But i do think that Otto von Habsburg is one of the kindest and learned men i had chance to meet and talk to. A gentleman indeed.

[Jarl]

I wasn't extolling eastern Europeans tourists.

What's wrong with them anyway? The goddamn filthy rugged bunch? ;)

[ikki]

Coming from one of the greatest tourist attractions in Europe (oddly enough) I must say, that unless you are referring to a certain type of Brits that are a menace for even Britain itself, then we, as a tourist receiving country, pray to God for western European tourists and not Eastern European ones, or the aforementioned Brits, or Italians.

That is because they are the most quiet, civilized, clean and big-spending bunch of them all. ;)

Germans, Dutch, Scandinavians, Swiss, Belgians, etc are the best bunch of tourists one can hope for.

Heh, reminds me of the tourism criteria by a good friend regarding tourism... only travelling to atleast as or more aryan/white/euro places ;)
Living in the sw parts of the us, much of the world qualifies :D

[Poltergeist]

What's wrong with them anyway? The goddamn filthy rugged bunch? ;)

I work in tourism and have seen much of this zoo, so speaking from direct experience.

[Jarl]

But seriously now. Most Uralic peoples have always been in Europe - so the thread's title is a bit misleading. Lapps, Voguls, Cheremis, Mordvins, Ostiaks/Khantys have all been present in Europe at least since Bronze Age... Obviously they are marginally European nowadays, but they assimilated a lot of Turkic blood since antiquity (so they look a bit more tukicised than they used to in ancient times when Turks were still in Central Asia), while the Hungarians did the opposite.They assimilated a lot of autochtonic blood - mainly Sarmatian and Slavic.

If we are to exclude Hungarians, then we also have to exclude half of the Balkans*** - there were several consecutive waves of Turkic immigrants which settled in the Danube valley - the Huns, the Avars, the Bulgars, the Hungarians, the Chazars, the Pechengs and the Kipchaks and finally the Turks. It is quite striking that modern day Hungary does not seem to stand out a lot genetically. The Turkic substrate must have been relatively small in comparison to Slavic/Sarmatian.


I work in tourism and have seen much of this zoo, so speaking from direct experience.

Yeah. I just asked what's the bullshit with the East Euros... I visited Crete last year (during UEFA EURO 2008), and there were loads of Englishmen, Dutchmen and quite a few Poles and Germans. The only group which seemed to stand out both in dress and behaviour were the Russians.


*** - and Spain and Finland and Estonia and Ukraine too (with some bits of Scandinavia and Latvia due to the mixing with Uralics).

[Poltergeist]

But seriously now. Most Uralic peoples have always been in Europe - so the thread's title is a bit misleading. Lapps, Voguls, Cheremis, Mordvins, Ostiaks/Khantys have all been present in Europe at least since Bronze Age... Obviously they are marginally European, but Hungarians assimilated a lot of autochtonic blood - mainly Sarmatian and Slavic.

If we are to exclude Hungarians, then we also have to exclude half of the Balkans - there were several consecutive waves of Turkic immigrants which settled in the Danube valley - the Huns, the Avars, the Bulgars, the Hungarians, the Chazars, the Pechengs and the Kipchaks and finally the Turks. It is quite striking that modern day Hungary does not seem to stand out a lot genetically. The Turkic substrate must have been relatively small in comparison to Slavic/Sarmatian.

Everything right, except for Hungarians being Turkic. Hungarians are originally Finno-Ugric, with only minor Turkic input due to having lived in a Turkic confederation for a while. Also some small quantity of Turkic words.

As for Huns, their ethnic identity still remains something of a mystery, though there is a widely held hypothesis they were Turkic. Hungarians are unrelated to Huns. It is funny thing that the Hun myth was invented by the Hungarian feudal aristocracy as its alleged source of historical legitimacy: according to this legends nobles would have been descendants of Huns who conquered the Pannonian plain and thus, by the right of sword (ius gladii) have the right to rule over the defeated population which lived there prevously (serfs would be descendants of the former indigenous population, prior to the arrival of Huns). I think something similar existed in Poland with its szlachta claiming its ancestry in Sarmatians?

[Jarl]

Everything right, except for Hungarians being Turkic. Hungarians are originally Finno-Ugric, with only minor Turkic input due to having lived in a Turkic confederation for a while. Also some small quantity of Turkic words.

I know about that. Its me after all who pointed to the fact that Hungarians once inhabited the Volga valley and along with Khantys and Mansi called themselves "Yugra" (hence Ugric/Ungarn/Hungary).


As for Huns, their ethnic identity still remains something of a mystery, though there is a widely held hypothesis they were Turkic. Hungarians are unrelated to Huns. It is funny thing that the Hun myth was invented by the Hungarian feudal aristocracy as its alleged source of historical legitimacy: according to this legends nobles would have been descendants of Huns who conquered the Pannonian plain and thus, by the right of sword (ius gladii) have the right to rule over the defeated population which lived there prevously (serfs would be descendants of the former indigenous population, prior to the arrival of Huns). I think something similar existed in Poland with its szlachta claiming its ancestry in Sarmatians?

Yeah! We've had the Sarmation myth too, just as Russians had a Scythian one. Though this is partly true - Sarmatians mixed heavily with the poeple of the Zarubintsy and Chernyakov cultures - both considered to be Slavic or partly Slavic in character. Also Serbians and Croatians might have originally been Sarmatian tribes. There used to be a state of White Croatia in Southern Poland during early Medieval Ages. Slavs are also said to assimilate Alans during their expansion.

Well Huns still settled in the Pannonian plains. They were defeated at Nedao in mid Vth century and routed. However, it is unlikely they all have left. They probably did mix with locals, just like their successors the Avars - who were gradually slavicized. Consequently, in assimilating the Slavic locals, few centuries later, Hungarians had to also assimilate some Turkc blood.


After the fall of the Avar Empire, the name Avar, and the self-identified constructed ethnicity it carried, disappeared within a single generation. An Avar presence in Pannonia is still certain in 871 but thereafter the name is no longer used by chroniclers: "It simply proved impossible to keep up an Avar identity after Avar institutions and the high claims of their tradition had failed."[26]. The Avars had already been fusing with the more numerous Slavs for generations.

In turn, they came under the rule of external polities – that of the Franks, the Bulgar Khanate and Great Moravia[27]. Isolated pockets of Avars in Transylvania and eastern Pannonia escaped assimilation, and might have been the “Huns” encountered[citation needed] by the invading Magyars in the 10th century. The Avars of Tiszántúl and Crisana were still bilingual when the Hungarians arrived in 895. Their hypothetical descendants, the Székely (who apparently preserved the Avar Dragon Totem well into the 15th century[citation needed]), were relocated to Transylvania in the 12th century. In contrast to Transylvania, the descendants of those who had considered themselves "Avars" in the 8th century (i.e., part of the Avar polity, even if actually of Slavic or Germanic background) in the central Pannonian Plain were absorbed by the invading Magyars to form the new nation of Hungary.

Hungary, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Romania are the countries with most significant Turkic presence in Antiquity and Early Medieval Ages. Joined by Greece and Serbia in later Medieval Ages. Did it have any major impact on these countries? I am not really certain. One would have to do some genetic research and look at the haplogroup frequencies. First of all Im too tired for this today, and secondly, I don't think they had any great effect. So goodnight! ;)

[Poltergeist]

Yeah. I just asked what's the bullshit with the East Euros... I visited Crete last year (during UEFA EURO 2008), and there were loads of Englishmen, Dutchmen and quite a few Poles and Germans. The only group which seemed to stand out both in dress and behaviour were the Russians.

East euros tend to complain too much about just about everything. As if they were not able to relax and enjoy in their stay. As if in their homelands they were some aristocrats living in castles or manors. A bunch of spoiled children.

[Jarl]

East euros tend to complain too much about just about everything. As if they were not able to relax and enjoy in their stay. As if in their homelands they were some aristocrats living in castles or manors. A bunch of spoiled children.

And I thought they were just some ragged bunch of vagabonds, tearing down every damn place they come across... I do not think they stand out whatsoever. They are definitely not louder than the British or the Dutch ;)

[Poltergeist]

And I thought they were just some ragged bunch of vagabonds, tearing down every damn place they come across... I do not think they stand out whatsoever. They are definitely not louder than the British or the Dutch ;)

That is exactly the point I was making. Westerners are more of a rugged bunch of vandals, while the easterners are extremely annoying complainers about virutally everything.

[Falkata]

Accordin with autosomal DNA tests, yes, they are.

http://www.nextnature.net/research/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/genetic_map_of_europe_530.jpg

[Atlas]

It's actually a shame we have such a thread/poll like this on here. Karl answered and the thread should have been close by then. Hungarians are surrendered by a sea of Europeans, how in the hell couldn't they be European ?

[Loki]

Hungarians are surrendered by a sea of Europeans, how in the hell couldn't they be European ?

The question is still a valid topic for discussion, since the Magyars were not always located in central Europe. They originated in the Urals region, and only moved into Europe in a folk migration during the 8th century.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Hungarian_migration.png/731px-Hungarian_migration.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Honfoglalas.gif

The Magyar language is of Uralic origin, unlike those of Indo-Europeans.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Kalandozasok.jpg

Above: Hungarian campaigns in the 10th century. Most European nations were literally praying for mercy, as a notable prayer of the time shows: "Sagittis hungarorum libera nos Domine" – "Lord save us from the arrows of Hungarians"

[Jimbo Gomez]

I visited their country last year. Looked European enough. The people are all fine Europeans, although the language is something completely alien (if you order 'bor' in a pub, you get wine, for example). It's vaguely related to Finnish, but they told me if they hear a Finn speak they can't understand a word of it. In my opinion they're every bit as European as the Finns, which is to say: very European.

[Goidelic]

This thread is ridiculous of course they're European. Not only genetically, but also culturally, and spiritually.

You're telling me these two Hungarian women aren't European? ;)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/yeahsarah82/babes/122592.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/yeahsarah82/babes/135941.jpg

[Jimbo Gomez]

This thread is ridiculous of course they're European. Not only genetically, but also culturally, and spiritually.

You're telling me these two Hungarian women aren't European? ;)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/yeahsarah82/babes/122592.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/yeahsarah82/babes/135941.jpg

First of: thank you for the eye candy ;)

When you're walking around in Budapest, you'll notice two sorts of young women: a minority of really ugly and disgusting gypsy hags, and an unbelievably high percentage of stunning girls. Just plenty of good looking, healthy women. I don't think you'll see anything like that in some tatar village in the Caucasus, where the relatives of the Hungarians are supposed to live (you'd see the ugly gypsy types though).

[Goidelic]

First of: thank you for the eye candy ;)

When you're walking around in Budapest, you'll notice two sorts of young women: a minority of really ugly and disgusting gypsy hags, and an unbelievably high percentage of stunning girls. Just plenty of good looking, healthy women. I don't think you'll see anything like that in some tatar village in the Caucasus, where the relatives of the Hungarians are supposed to live (you'd see the ugly gypsy types though).

Speaking of Nordic hags, these Hungarians look Icelandic/very Scandinavian. :D:p

http://www.worldmusic.net/wmn/images/products/RGNET1198.jpg

[Jimbo Gomez]

Speaking of Nordic hags, these Hungarians look Icelandic/very Scandinavian. :D:p

http://www.worldmusic.net/wmn/images/products/RGNET1198.jpg

The funniest thing: I've been to Prague as well as Budapest (the women in Prague are drop dead gorgeous too), and in both cities, one of the first things the hotel people told me was 'don't trust gypsy'. Say that to the wrong person here and you'll have legal problems on your hands. A people so sane and beautiful has to be European. :D

[Goidelic]

The funniest thing: I've been to Prague as well as Budapest (the women in Prague are drop dead gorgeous too), and in both cities, one of the first things the hotel people told me was 'don't trust gypsy'. Say that to the wrong person here and you'll have legal problems on your hands. A people so sane and beautiful has to be European. :D

Yeah, I think I'd trust faces like these in Hungary anyday ;)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/yeahsarah82/babes/122509.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/yeahsarah82/babes/134220.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/yeahsarah82/babes/129360.jpg

http://machomedia.hu/old/060826/mm_parade2k6_016.jpg


rather than the latter, which are these "haggish diasporic refugee monsters." :p

http://www.arcmusic.co.uk/shop/images/1928.jpg

http://www.fwbo-news.org/uploaded_images/Jai_Bhim_headband-711947.JPG

http://195.178.113.21/mondomixmp3/disk1/albums/20734/images/cover-300.jpg

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bmash/blogger/gypsies1a.jpg

http://english.ohmynews.com/down/images/1/internews_191361_1%5B244969%5D.jpg

[Creeping Death]

http://i26.tinypic.com/2lpfrq.png

This is better.I dont know you still have that third world Muslim shithole Turkey in the map.

[Poltergeist]

I dont know you still have that third world Muslim shithole Turkey in the map.

Even Turkey and Turks are preferable to "people" like Brian Fooley.

[Loki]

Magyars officially became Europeans in 1001, when Szent István accepted Christianity and became their leader. It was recognised by the Pope.

However, Hungarians became civilized Europeans at around 1550, when they became Protestants. ;) We can thank the Turks for that, since their occupation effectively blocked counter-reformation measures. :thumb001:

[Poltergeist]

As a renegade Calvinist, I refuse to acknowledge that Protestantism equals civilization. It doesn't.

[Loki]

As a renegade Calvinist, I refuse to acknowledge that Protestantism equals civilization. It doesn't.

I would agree with that, however I hold that Protestantism is the first step towards free thinking and intellectual exploration of our world -- eventually leading to atheism and the embracing of science as a means of improving our lifestyle and understanding.

[Nationalitist]

Yeah, that surely explains why more atheist countries in Europe are more fucked up now... Or that although Hungarians converted to Protestantism (not all actualy, there has always been a significant number of Catholics) they were still savages. ;)

[Nationalitist]

I dont know you still have that third world Muslim shithole Turkey in the map.

Indeed, Constantinople should be reclaimed.

"What a mistakea ta makea."

http://www.alloallo.org.uk/alloallo/11.jpg

[Poltergeist]

I would agree with that, however I hold that Protestantism is the first step towards free thinking and intellectual exploration of our world -- eventually leading to atheism and the embracing of science as a means of improving our lifestyle and understanding.

From Protestantism to materialistic atheism - from one braindeadism to another.

I fail to see how is that improvement of anything.

Intellectual freedom and exploration - yes, I am all for it, however, today's natural scientistic limited and reductionist worldview has nothing to do with it. It is one dogmatism among many.

If Protestantism was a necessary precondition for that, then I don't hold Protestantism in high esteem.

The only difference between today's dogmatism and that of the Middle Ages is that nobody is going to burn you at stake for holding "wrong views". That is the only improvement indeed.

[Nationalitist]

Shut up, Kossuth.

Your version of catholicism is based exactly on teh standard kind of universal egalitarianism we suffer much from today, the one that has transformed teh Catholic Church precisely into the most important agent of destruction of our nations.

If there is something rotten and anti European it is precisely the Catholic Church of today, whose financers are also in the forefront in the immigrationist cause: as they profit of it, and it is an environment I'm not too far oway from, even if I absolutely have no position in their rotten network.

[Poltergeist]

Shut up, Kossuth.

Your version of catholicism is based exactly on teh standard kind of universal egalitarianism we suffer much from today, the one that has transformed teh Catholic Church precisely into the most important agent of destruction of our nations.

If there is something rotten and anti European it is precisely the Catholic Church of today, whose financers are also in the forefront in the immigrationist cause: as they profit of it, and it is an environment I'm not too far oway from, even if I absolutely have no position in their rotten network.

I am not Catholic. Don't insult me, Slowenian 'tard.

[Nationalitist]

Well, I really find your position to be basically anti-nationalist, as it perfectly corresponds to the universalist and substantially socialist, anabaptist position of the Church after Vatican II.

You are influenced by snubbish intellectuals like Franco Cardini and even the contorted Maurizio Blondet, whose real thinking is ever under definition and never too clear, despite some good foundations.

[Poltergeist]

Well, I really find your position to be basically anti-nationalist, as it perfectly corresponds to the universalist and substantially socialist, anabaptist position of the Church after Vatican II.

You are influenced by snubbish intellectuals like Franco Cardini and even the contorted Maurizio Blondet, whose real thinking is ever under definition and never too clear, despite some good foundations.

You are out of your mind.

[Nosi]

Asking if Hungarians are Europeans is the equivalent of asking if people in the United States are white. It's always dependant upon which people in that particular place are being referred to. It's impossible to give a definite yes or no answer when a country has a large nonwhite population living within its borders.

[L-F Céline]

Non-Europeans surrounded by a sea of Europeans? Hungarians are Europeans and genetically similar to their neighbors. Your statement lacks logic.

The Basques were originally a non-european people, being surrounded by a sea of Europeans europeanized them over time. The same happened to the Hungarians who were originally a mixture of assorted Eurasian/Semi-Mongoloids tribes and ethnic groups from the Urals and beyond.

[Äike]

The Basques were originally a non-european people, being surrounded by a sea of Europeans europeanized them over time.

That's wrong. Basques were Europeans and probably belonged to the Cro-Magnon subrace. I would say that Western Europeans are quite European.
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/3316/34834459.gif

There are genetic similarities between modern Basques and Welsh people. As Welsh people are the original Briton inhabitants of the British Isles.



The same happened to the Hungarians who were originally a mixture of assorted Eurasian/Semi-Mongoloids tribes and ethnic groups from the Urals and beyond.

The Huns didn't influence Hungarians that much, so Hungarians are European. Although kids are still named Attila in Hungary:D

[Basil]

IMO modern Hungarians are mainly just Slavs who speak non-Indo-European language. They are typical Central Europeans from genetic point of view.

http://bayimg.com/image/naaieaacf.jpg

[L-F Céline]

"The mongoloid elements detected in Hungarians are not homogenous, and fall into several distinct groups that are not the different mixing forms of the same Mongoloid elements, but are original racial types within the Mongoloid race." (L. Bartucz: The Hungarian Man. in: Hungarian Land, Hungarian Race. 19??. p. 428.)

[Äike]

IMO modern Hungarians are mainly just Slavs who speak non-Indo-European language. They are typical Central Europeans from genetic point of view.

http://bayimg.com/image/naaieaacf.jpg

That's true, they have zero Finnic genes, like N1c1.

[Goidelic]

This thread is ridiculous. Of course, they're European. If 55 people voted yes, then they must be European. :confused:

For the record, here's a Hungarian women can you detect the non-European elements? Well, for some people I'm not sure if it would matter if it would be so many generations ago. :p;)

http://www.missbalaton.hu/2007girls/02_dammak2.jpg

[Osweo]

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/3316/34834459.gif
This Ice Age Refuge thing has gotten too fashionable. It results in idiots thinking they understand these matters, and constructing diagrams like that above... :p:(
There was NO Proto Indo-European language at the period in question. Had the creators of the image done any actual reading into the topic, they might at least have labelled the Aegean group \'IT\' or Indo-Tyrrhenian...


Oh, and I shouldn\'t really have to say this but, Magyars are part of us, yes...

[Amapola]

Just for curbing Islam in Europe, they deserve to be called European
and
Just for fighting Communism so fiercely, they deserve all my respect.
http://www.embajada-hungria.org/spanyol/historia/kilian.jpg

[Mesrine]

Basques were Europeans and probably belonged to the Cro-Magnon subrace.

Not at all, you can't find more drastically different types than Baskids (dinaricized Atlanto-Meds) and Cromagniforms. BTW, Cro-Magnons went extinct, the last glaciation froze their arses to death.

[Poltergeist]

Are Hungarians Zeropeans? :p

[L-F Céline]

Not at all, you can't find more drastically different types than Baskids.

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/7382/web222.jpg

True as I have never seen anyone looking like that in Western Europe, save for a few North African Berberid immigrants.

[L-F Céline]

Oh, and I shouldn\'t really have to say this but, Magyars are part of us, yes...

That is like saying someone like Dean Cain is part of us because he is a Europeanized Asian.

[Matritensis]

Last time I checked the map,Hungary was in Europe.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

Hungary is a county I haven't visited (yet) but I think very highly of its people and would certainly like to get more closely acquainted with its culture in the near future.

Frankly, I don't give a rat's excrement about this sort of questioning on who's European and who's not.

It seems we can't even agree on a single definition of "european-ess" and in the bottom line, who cares, a nation's worth exists independently of artificial definitions ;)

modern-day Hungarians have a predominantly European genetic makeup (87 percent).
It would be interesting to know how much Finnish and Hun mix they have.

[Angantyr]

This entire thread is ridiculous. Of course, Hungarians are European. Genetically, they are more European than Greeks, and southern Balkan types, which have considerable Middle Eastern admixture. Linguistically, they speak a Uralic language, like the Finns and Estonians, whose Europeanness is equally beyond question. There is no basis whatsoever to posit that Hungarians are not Europeans and the only reason this thread could possibly exist is due to ignorance.

[Kurgan91]

Man ... many of this politicians are some dirty jews ... the Hungarian Socialist Party (MSZP) and Hungarian Civic Union (FIDESZ) have many many jewish members! Many of this mongolid looking members are of ashkenazim (khazarim) jewish ancestry.

[riverman]

Wheres the 'sort of' option on this poll?

[arcticwolf]

Let me see what the facts are.

Have they been in Europe for a very long time? Check
Do their genetics match their neighbors? Check
Are Finno-Ugric languages native to Europe? Check
Is their culture European? Check
Are they cool? Check


What are you dweebs smoking? Must be good shit! :laugh:

[Szegedist]

Lol, Hungary was a state at a time most European countries you see on the map today did not even exist.

[arcticwolf]

Lol, Hungary was a state at a time most European countries you see on the map today did not even exist.

We have a lot of Sherlock types on here, some may be even future rocket scientists! LOL

[Swearengen]

There was an Hungarian moderator late last year - I can't recall his username. But he posted his pics & if the Nazis were in charge of Europe, he would have made an excellent candidate for aryanization.

what were the required criteria?

I reckon I'm probably more "aryan" featured than your average south german. Especially with regard to cranial measurements, which I know they were big on.

However, they probably had much higher standards for foreigners than they did for germans.

[Szegedist]

I stick a big middle finger to your "Aryanization".

[Baluarte]

Obvious answer is obvious

[riverman]

what were the required criteria?

I reckon I'm probably more "aryan" featured than your average south german. Especially with regard to cranial measurements, which I know they were big on.

However, they probably had much higher standards for foreigners than they did for germans.

South Germans? Why South Germans?

[Swearengen]

South Germans? Why South Germans?

Because they're german, but not aryan featured like the standard that they held the non-german world to. It seems quite hypocritical.

[Maximum Speed]

obviously yes.

[Corvus]

Because they're german, but not aryan featured like the standard that they held the non-german world to. It seems quite hypocritical.

LOL have you ever been there?

[Swearengen]

no, but there are enough south germans in canada to know what they look like.

[Szegedist]

http://i26.tinypic.com/2lpfrq.png

This is better.



:laugh: :laugh:

just remember this
http://mek.oszk.hu/07100/07139/html/pic/3-06.jpg
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/100601/Nagy_Lajos_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg

[riverman]

:laugh: :laugh:

just remember this
http://mek.oszk.hu/07100/07139/html/pic/3-06.jpg
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/100601/Nagy_Lajos_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg

Wow, look at Lithuania, back when it could call itself an influential country!

[Szegedist]

Germans and Hungarians have no clue what nationalism is, since German nationalism is based on race and Hungarian nationalism is based on state

I disagree about bolded part, but this post does highlight a fundamental difference in mentality.
German nationalism was based on the idea of a Germanic or Nordic, Aryan race, while Hungarian nationalism based on the concept of the state (or rather the Kingdom). Racialist nationalism never really existed in Hungary. If you were loyal to the Hungarian state then you were considered pretty much a Hungarian.

This difference in mentality difficult to debate Trianon with foreigners. They whip up maps about race, ethnicity, Autosomnal DNA charts and Haplogroups, and they base their identity on this, while we couldn't care less.

It is difficult to explain to foreigners.

[Steven]

They look European, They live in Europe. They European.

[Baluarte]

They look European, They live in Europe. They European.

Baluarteball ist of European too :D

[superhorn]

Apparently, the original Magyars who arrived in what is now Hungry relatively small numerically and were quickly absorbed into the locla European population .Only their language remained, and it developed in isolation from the other Finno-Ugrian languages and is very different from them, although you can see obvious relationshipe if you compare Hungarian with the other Finno-Ugrian languages.
The Khant and Mansi of western Siberia speak th e closest languages to Hungarian, but they are not mutually intelligable with it . There are in fact,numerous Turkic loan words in Hungarian , and many grammatical similarities with Turkic languages,too . As far I as know, the Khant and Mansi are not at all genetically close to the Hungarians .
You might compare this situation with the people of Madagascar . Although most are African in appearance, they speak an Indonesian language, as Indonesians settled there long ago and mixed with African peoples .

[(s)AINT]

If they live in Europe, then their European.

[Géza]

No, Hungarians are pure Asitaics. Here is a picture about a Hungarian Nationalist group when they're pursuiting jooz in one of Budapest's suburbs. :D

http://y2.ifengimg.com/af0a411b01107b98/2013/0704/rdn_51d4e34002265.jpg

[Stears]

I vote no.

Ironically a slavic man stated that.:D Since the era of modern genetics, haplogroup markers, we can test people. Slavic people have average higher ratio of non-european (mongoloid) markers than Hungarians.

See mongoloid haplogroup ratios of European nations ( haplogroup "N" and haplogroup "Q")

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

Moreover he is from the semi-asian Orthodox civilization.

Differences between the Western (catholic-protestant) world and the culturally semi-asian eastern (Orthodox) world:
A short description: www.educator.uw.hu

[Dasr]

No we are mongolians.:thumb001:
Our racial makeup might changed a bit since we left our ancestral homeland the northern vicinity of the river Lena , but that doesn't change the fact us being mongolians.

Mongol and proud!
hungarians arent mongol, just some of them

[Stears]

hungarians arent mongol, just some of them

You have partially gypsy ancestry, as you stated in your old post.

[jumanji]

Not just Europeanes, the First Europeans!
Hungarians in age as Gravettians in East Eu.
In neolitic: Europe, Middle East , Caucasus.
Later the migrations to Asia and back home .

[Dasr]

You have partially gypsy ancestry, as you stated in your old post.
Yeah so? Gypsys are Aryan. Im not. Only on my mothers side

[arcticwolf]

Yeah so? Gypsys are Aryan. Im not. Only on my mothers side

LOL

[Stears]

No, Hungarians are pure Asitaics. Here is a picture about a Hungarian Nationalist group when they're pursuiting jooz in one of Budapest's suburbs. :D http://y2.ifengimg.com/af0a411b01107b98/2013/0704/rdn_51d4e34002265.jpg With great poster advertisements with Cyrillic alphabet and foreign language on the streets? :))))))) It was a good joke...

[Stears]

hungarians arent mongol, just some of them They are called ethnic minorities in Hungary.

[Dictator]

Of course they are.

[Stears]

Isn't it strange, that people from nations with less european genetic-make-up , and less european culture (semi-asian orthodox) and average less european (less western) look attack the most vehemently the Hungarians?

[JeanBaMac]

Ironically a slavic man stated that.:D Since the era of modern genetics, haplogroup markers, we can test people. Slavic people have average higher ratio of non-european (mongoloid) markers than Hungarians.

See mongoloid haplogroup ratios of European nations ( haplogroup "N" and haplogroup "Q")

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

Moreover he is from the semi-asian Orthodox civilization.

Differences between the Western (catholic-protestant) world and the culturally semi-asian eastern (Orthodox) world:
A short description: www.educator.uw.hu

Haplogroup N is not Mongoloid, it's Finno-Ugric. It is common in Finland and the Baltic states, among Northern European-looking populations. So, it's more accurate to say that Russians (who possess high amounts of haplogroup N) are Nordic-influenced.
Haplogroup Q is more common in Scandinavia and Southwestern France than in Slavic countries, it was brought in Western Europe by Indo-Europeans. Haplogroup Q is the closest haplogroup to haplogroup R, it explains why some Western Indo-Europeans share this haplogroup. On the other hand, Native Americans living in Northeastern America (Algonquian-speaking people) have high amounts of haplogroup R1b.

And the theory of a "Mongol" origin of Slavs is pseudo-scientific.

[templumForasticus]

Yeah so? Gypsys are Aryan.

No, they are thieves and scoundrels.

[JeanBaMac]

Gypsies are South Asian, they have few common points with Europeans (appart of being Indo-Europeans).

[caviezel]

yes they are, genetically they plot exactly where they are geographically. it's their crazy language that's not european. if I was them I would consider the idea of reforming it in an indo-euro fashion.

[Dasr]

yes they are, genetically they plot exactly where they are geographically. it's their crazy language that's not european. if I was them I would consider the idea of reforming it in an indo-euro fashion.
haha their language is THE orginal european language hahaha

[Stears]

yes they are, genetically they plot exactly where they are geographically. it's their crazy language that's not european. if I was them I would consider the idea of reforming it in an indo-euro fashion. About the Finno-Ugric and IE language groups.

Just some Hard-facts: Finno-Ugric language group was born in N-Eastern Europe, until the roots of ancient IE language groups go back to Asian continent. In the Eurasian supercontinent, there are more native speakers of IE languages in the ASIAN continent than in Europen continent. (Just remember the large IE speaking populations of India Pakistan Iran) However, the 97% of Finno-ugric speaking people live in Europe. Therefore to call finno-ugric languages as "asian languages" is laughable illogical, unscientific and misleading.

TYPE IN ENGLISH WIKIPEDIA:"Proto Indo Europeans" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Europeans

and see the maps about original ancient IE people!France Britain Italy haven't signifficant proto indoeuropean genes.The Germanic people have also very very low ratio of ancient IE haplogroup markers (R1a),only Eastern Europeans have high ratio of original proto IE haplogroups markers.Western European languages belongs to IE language group,but in very very distant way.(Have you ever heard about Language-shift? The IE linguistic effect spreaded as a lingua franca between many many populations during thousands of years)The real genetical IE people equal with the Eastern European people: and it represent lower culture,technology&lower scientific economic development in European continent.

[blogen]

No, they are thieves and scoundrels.

But Aryan thiefs and scoundrels!

[blogen]

Hungarians have no Asiatic admixture whatsoever while some of their neighbors have.
Dumbest thread ever, should be closed down by mods.

But more than half of ours have. :D

[Stears]

Like 1% max? ;) Our population have 0.5 % (half percent) asian DNA, like the aboriginal English or French population.

[blogen]

Like 1% max? ;)

Based on the great Hungarian anthropological survey of Dr. Henkey Gyula academician: 67,9% of the Hungarains have measurable Mongoloid heritage besides their massive Europid character. The sample size was more than 30 thousand person and these were the settlements (or subsettlements) where the ethnic Hungarian population was surveyed:

http://s27.postimg.org/faeo2fswz/alapt_rk_p.jpg

This is an excellent and absolute representative sample.

[Stears]

Based on the great Hungarian anthropological survey of Dr. Henkey Gyula academician: 67,9% of the Hungarains have measurable Mongoloid heritage besides their massive Europid character. The sample size was more than 30 thousand person and these were the settlements (or subsettlements) where the ethnic Hungarian population was surveyed: http://s27.postimg.org/faeo2fswz/alapt_rk_p.jpg This is an excellent and absolute representative sample. Henkey :)))))) Very trustworthy. A person who called genetics as a pseudo science...

[Fakirbakir]

Where would you put the Hungarians on the map? According to recent researches Hungarians in 800 AD were still eastward from Volga Bulgars (this was the time when they started to migrate west)

http://languagesoftheworld.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Finn4.jpg

[Stears]

Where would you put the Hungarians on the map? According to recent researches Hungarians in 800 AD were still eastward from Volga Bulgars (this was the time when they started to migrate west) http://languagesoftheworld.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Finn4.jpg Fakírkám, igazán dobhatnál egy levelet arról h. mi újság a hajókkal...

[Stears]

No, they are thieves and scoundrels. Sad fact: the gypsy shit population (like other Indian groups) spoke IE languages much earlier than the Western European and Southern European populations, and they preserved its very ancient form :)))

[Dasr]

Sad fact: the gypsy shit population (like other Indian groups) spoke IE languages much earlier than the Western European and Southern European populations, and they preserved its very ancient form :)))
The same goes for their DNA

[Stears]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_R64xboi54 You are sabirhunogur, this is his favorite music, and his sumerian origin tales.

[Queen B]

Stears will have a heart attack with this thread :lol:

[Crn Volk]

Stears will have a heart attack with this thread :lol:

Especially since you voted no ;)

[Stears]

Especially since you voted no ;) It does not change the genetic makeup of present-day neo "greek" population. And it is true for you.

[Ctwentysevenj]

Yes Hungarians are Europeans, with some Slavic mix. Although Stears, the Italians did build more advance electric locomotives before world war 2.:rolleyes:

[Antimage]

Hungary is located in europe ->hungarian people live in europe->they are europeean-> end of discussion thxbye

[Queen B]

Especially since you voted no ;)
Ι voted NO for this reason actually. Just for him :thumb001:
I couldn't care less about what Hungarians are :rotfl:

It does not change the genetic makeup of present-day neo "greek" population. And it is true for you.
Don't confuse European and Aryan
And, I'm a nigger? hahah :lol:, that is new :lol:

[Vasconcelos]

Ι voted NO for this reason actually. Just for him :thumb001:

I guess everyone who voted no had the exact same thought :laugh:

[Isleño]

Hungarians are European!

[NigelF]

Yes...most Hungarians are of Austrian racial stock. The Slavs, with their mongoloid admixture, will never be true Europeans!

[Crn Volk]

Yes...most Hungarians are of Austrian racial stock. The Slavs, with their mongoloid admixture, will never be true Europeans!

Which Slavs? Be more specific.

[katniss]

Stears will have a heart attack with this thread :lol:

:thumb001:

[EL_BARBARO]

Yes, Hungarians are european.

[Stears]

http://www.aszhirportal.hu/storage/files/uploads/120/IMG_0110k.jpg http://mork.nyugat.hu/Scopes/nyugat2013/var//improxy/NyugatWXGAPicture/178930_szombathely_visszavar.jpg http://www.szeretlekmagyarorszag.hu/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/reccs1.jpg http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OicvTjVieWM/UvKHve_u5DI/AAAAAAAAAhY/eSNdUMr4KIQ/s1600/1618163_594869807229127_1329966275_o.jpg http://www.geo.info.hu/portal2007/images/stories/andi/oklevlkiosztl.jpg http://mork.nyugat.hu/Scopes/nyugat2013/var//improxy/NyugatWXGAPicture/194199_nyugat_magyarorszagi_egyetem_bolyai_janos_g yakorlo.jpg http://semmelweis.hu/hirek/files/2012/07/SummerSchoolParticipants.jpg http://tmk.sze.hu/images/Audi%20team2.jpg http://www.sopron.hu/upload/content/25/2557/_25574/IMG_0078c.jpg http://mefs.hu/!/images/IMG_4106.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eJeDIC7lmg4/UMJbkyjmG9I/AAAAAAAAC2U/1WwQCVqJ2k4/s1600/IMG_8898.jpg http://crnl.hu/!old/tan/tesi/rokauzok_2011_10_08/11.jpg

[Stears]

http://www.refdunantul.hu/data/sentphoto/2011/03/09/egyetemi_csoportk%C3%A9p.jpg http://veol.hu/data/cikk/129/2688/cikk_1292688/pannonponthuzo.jpg https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSkM1-6DQk-HueJJ-7i-6LHdQAe4w0RmJkuY4wqHaM4rYZTu6O_ http://semmelweis.hu/hirek/files/2011/11/felvi6.jpg http://uj.tnt.bme.hu/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/BME-csapat.jpg http://www.epito.bme.hu/uvt/hirek_esemenyek/kepek/15/_img_0114.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-78g3tP6zWNs/Tqp1jpdwX2I/AAAAAAAABlQ/tAtUl2KMdhI/s1600/K%25C3%25A9p%2B005.jpg

[Dasr]

But more than half of ours have. :D
Stears is right

[Supercomputer]

Genetically and culturally yes, linguistically no.

[Äijä]

Genetically and culturally yes, linguistically no.

LOL

[Biant]

Hungary is in Europe. Why should we call them something else?
They are genetically Europeans, and even if they were't, their country located in Europe, so we could easily call them 'Europeans', as we call Turks and Armenians.

[Cristiano viejo]

Are Hungarians Europeans? Only Stears.

[Stears]

Genetically and culturally yes, linguistically no. Laughable. Read books only of academic linguist professors. IE languges were only asian origin dealer language (lingua franca), however Finnougric languages are European origin languages.

[Stears]

About the Finno-Ugric and IE language groups.

Just some Hard-facts: Finno-Ugric language group was born in N-Eastern Europe, until the roots of ancient IE language groups go back to Asian continent. In the Eurasian supercontinent, there are more native speakers of IE languages in the ASIAN continent than in Europen continent. (Just remember the large IE speaking populations of India Pakistan Iran) However, the 97% of Finno-ugric speaking people live in Europe. Therefore to call finno-ugric languages as "asian languages" is laughable illogical, unscientific and misleading.

TYPE IN ENGLISH WIKIPEDIA:"Proto Indo Europeans" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Europeans

and see the maps about original ancient IE people!France Britain Italy haven't signifficant proto indoeuropean genes.The Germanic people have also very very low ratio of ancient IE haplogroup markers (R1a),only Eastern Europeans have high ratio of original proto IE haplogroups markers in Europe. Western European languages belongs to IE language group,but in very very distant way.(Have you ever heard about language-shift? The IE linguistic effect spreaded as a lingua franca and as a „dealer language” between many many populations during thousands of years) The real genetical IE people equal with the Eastern European people ( indians and iranians in the Asian continent.) Therefore being real descendants of Indoeuropeans represent lower culture,technology&lower scientific and economic development in the European continent.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

No they're niggers

[yellownes]

Kinda, as they are now integrated into it.

[Stears]

Kinda, as they are now integrated into it. Black haired brown (monkey) eyed swarthy sebian troll will be deleted

[DarknessInside]

Genetically and culturally yes, linguistically no.

How?

[Dasr]

No they're niggers

NO Im a nigger but hungarians are white Indo-european.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

NO Im a nigger but hungarians are white Indo-european.

You're not a nigger you're a Jew.

Hungarians are niggers.

[Stears]

NO Im a nigger but hungarians are white Indo-european. Unlike Finno-ugric languges - which were born in Europe - the IE languages have Asian origin, and they were asian (lingua-franca and dealer languages)

[yellownes]

Black haired brown (monkey) eyed swarthy sebian troll will be deleted

What.

[Pongi]

We are today living in Europe but we are not of European origin.

[Pongi]

Living in Europe doesn't mean we are Europeans.

[brennus dux gallorum]

We are today living in Europe but we are not of European origin.

Interesting to read this from a Hungarian

[Pongi]

Interesting to read this from a Hungarian
It's obvious for us.

[brennus dux gallorum]

It's obvious for us.

You must be new here, you are not aware of stears

[Sekkmer]

It's obvious for us.
EDITED

[Pongi]

You must be new here, you are not aware of stears
What is that?

[brennus dux gallorum]

What is that?

A Hungarian user

[Pongi]

A Hungarian user
Why should I be aware?

[Mikula]

Why should I be aware?

Use the search engine, and you will see

[brennus dux gallorum]

Why should I be aware?


Because he would never accept any non European theory about Hungarians

[Pongi]

I can say he doesn't look Hungarian at all, and if he says so, he should not consider himself as a hungarian.

[Sekkmer]

I can say he doesn't look Hungarian at all, and if he says so, he should not consider himself as a hungarian.
There is neither Hungarian nor French or Romanian look. etc.

[Szegedist]

Interesting to read this from a Hungarian

Talking to your own sock ? Why not write " we Hungarians are east Asian uraltanians" to make it even less believable?

[brennus dux gallorum]

Talking to your own sock ? Why not write " we Hungarians are east Asian uraltanians" to make it even less believable?

You are drunk

[Stears]

Why should I be aware?

You are the banned sockpuppet ( Sabirhunogur ), who is a weird foreign looking neo- cuman boy. You are from a turkic identity neo-cuman minority. Go home to china, the land of your ancestors. I will report you. Turan gypsy!

[LouisFerdinand]

Yes, Hungarians are definitely Europeans.
When Grandfather writes to relatives in Hungary, he writes Europa on the address of the envelope.

[Baibars06]

Yes they are Europeans, their origins (their origins enduring a lot of tribes) doesn't matter.

[crazyladybutterfly]

they re clearly latinos

[crazyladybutterfly]

We are today living in Europe but we are not of European origin.

just because some hungarians might have non-european ancestry it doesn't mean they have zero european ancestry lol

[crazyladybutterfly]

..ghjghj

[mustang981]

they re clearly latinos

not sure if you're being sarcastic here but anyways.

Italians are more likely to be mistaken as Latinos in the USA than any Hungarian. I've seen Hungarians here and they all look like White Europeans.

Mexicans and South Americans can all pass in Southern Italy or Greece.

[mustang981]

Since Hungary is in Europe, I would consider them Europeans. Hungarians have been prominent inventors and scientists in the USA.

The designer of the Ford Model T, Jozef Galamb

http://i0.wp.com/www.wjp.hu/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Galamb-J%C3%B3zsef-kezd%C5%91k%C3%A9p.jpg?resize=1024%2C512

and nuclear physicist Edward Teller, Hungarian Jew who invented the Hydrogen Bomb.

http://hungarytoday.hu/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Edward-Teller-at-Stanford-015.jpg

[Profileid]

Their language and culture is asiatic

[mustang981]

Their language and culture is asiatic

They've contributed more to the USA than other central Europeans and Italians or Greeks. The Ford Model T and the thermonuclear weapons (Hungarian Jew) as I said.

[Profileid]

They've contributed more to the USA than other central Europeans and Italians or Greeks. The Ford Model T and the thermonuclear weapons as I said.

What does that have to do with what I just said?

[Gold-Shekel]

If slavs are considered european then yeah

[oszkar07]

Their language and culture is asiatic

Im fairly certain from this comment you dont know what you talking about.

1') Language is Finno-Ugrc, same language group that Finnish and Estonian belong to.

2) How do you confuse Central European culture with Asiatic culture.

[Antimage]

Im fairly certain from this comment you dont know what you talking about.

1') Language is Finno-Ugrc, same language group that Finnish and Estonian belong to.

2) How do you confuse Central European culture with Asiatic culture.

People have this misconception that indo-european languages = european.
However indo-european languages have more speakers outside Europe than inside...(see indo-iranian languages which are part of the greater indo-european group). Indo european languages are not confined to Europe, on the other hand Finno-ugric languages are, as vast majority of speakers live there..

[oszkar07]

We are today living in Europe but we are not of European origin.

Living in Europe doesn't mean we are Europeans.


so if living more than at the very least {and in most cases much more than } 1000 years in Europe and having by majority European DNA, European culture. As a nation being historically involved in European cultural development. If all these things do not equate to being European then for you what does.
Also keep in mind that if you start to think in terms of origin ...supposedly everyone in Europe came from other places at different points in time.
I think this Turanistic reasoning is not only massively flawed and illogical its also delusional and based on fairy tale logic and legend and is only taken seriously by Turanists and Turkists.

[Autrigón]

According to this forum any country in Europe is european...who the fuck is european here? Europe exist? :cheer_icoon:

[Wrong]

Of course, not Indo-European speakers, but Europeans nonetheless.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_R64xboi54

Haters always try to undermine Hungarian Europeanness.

[Cristiano viejo]

I like Hungary increasingly.

[Melki]

Of course they are. Their language is Eurasian, old Magyar steppic traditions too, but the people is 100% Yorupean.

[oszkar07]

Of course they are. Their language is Eurasian, old Magyar steppic traditions too, but the people is 100% Yorupean.

which "old Magyar steppic traditions too" do Hungarians have in day to day life.

[Melki]

which "old Magyar steppic traditions too" do Hungarians have in day to day life.

That

http://zupimages.net/up/17/19/kuza.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=17/19/kuza.jpg)

http://zupimages.net/up/17/19/c7w1.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=17/19/c7w1.jpg)

http://zupimages.net/up/17/19/jcvl.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=17/19/jcvl.jpg)

http://zupimages.net/up/17/19/wzyx.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=17/19/wzyx.jpg)

Life in the puszta

[oszkar07]

That

http://zupimages.net/up/17/19/kuza.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=17/19/kuza.jpg)

http://zupimages.net/up/17/19/c7w1.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=17/19/c7w1.jpg)

http://zupimages.net/up/17/19/jcvl.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=17/19/jcvl.jpg)

http://zupimages.net/up/17/19/wzyx.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=17/19/wzyx.jpg)

Life in the puszta


So you think if you will go to Hungary this is what you will see people doing on every street corner ?
In the Puszta for tourists you can see the Csikos (Hungarian Cowboys) doing horse stunt riding...not really sure how traditional that stuff is or if we can say it is directly from the Steppe...but it is hardly a maintained Hungarian tradition outside of historical performance for tourists.
The Bogracs ...used for cooking Gulyas is basically just a metal cauldron. This tradition of cooking is kept but Im not entirely certain this tradition is directly from the Steppe.

[Melki]

So you think if you will go to Hungary this is what you will see people doing on every street corner ?
In the Puszta for tourists you can see the Csikos (Hungarian Cowboys) doing horse stunt riding...not really sure how traditional that stuff is or if we can say it is directly from the Steppe...but it is hardly a maintained Hungarian tradition outside of historical performance for tourists.
The Bogracs ...used for cooking Gulyas is basically just a metal cauldron. This tradition of cooking is kept but Im not entirely certain this tradition is directly from the Steppe.

Of course not, they don't do it on every street corner, but there were not tourists 100 years ago and it didn't prevent these Magyars from having this rustic lifestyle, inherited from the Urals, just like the Samis in northern Europe. They didn't import these traditions from a Kaffeehaus in Vienna, they must share them with their Eurasian cousins the Khantis and the Mansis.
Where do you think Turul comes from? A tearoom?

[Yggdrasil]

Of course not, they don't do it on every street corner, but there were not tourists 100 years ago and it didn't prevent these Magyars from having this rustic lifestyle, inherited from the Urals, just like the Samis in northern Europe. They didn't import these traditions from a Kaffeehaus in Vienna, they must share them with their Eurasian cousins the Khantis and the Mansis.
Where do you think Turul comes from? A tearoom?

You clearly know nothing of Sami (or khanty/mansi for that matter) culture if you believe they live like "steppe nomads" :laugh:
These traditions and customs were probably inherited from contacts with turkic tribes.

[oszkar07]

Of course not, they don't do it on every street corner, but there were not tourists 100 years ago and it didn't prevent these Magyars from having this rustic lifestyle, inherited from the Urals, just like the Samis in northern Europe. They didn't import these traditions from a Kaffeehaus in Vienna, they must share them with their Eurasian cousins the Khantis and the Mansis.
Where do you think Turul comes from? A tearoom?

Wherever there is horses there is stuntriders.
You think people were doing that all over Hungary 100 years ago? Are you serious? Actually Europe had tourists 100 years ago ...there are even Tourist travel books from that time.
Yes some of the tricks/stunts done on those horses are supposedly taken from old horse warrior tacticts which may have likely came from the east, but you seem to be wanting to imply that such things are modern day Hungarian traditions outside of "historical tourist performances" or other than specific people who reinact historical themes.
Your point in my oppinion is kind of mute considering that many traditions or daily customs that exist today all over Europe did not all originate in Europe ...including the most obvious one Christianity.
I just see you in sneaky way trying take cheap shot and imply that Hungarians are not European.
Mute point / cheap shot.
You can say ...where do u think Turul came from.
I can say where do u think a lot of things came from = so what.

[Yggdrasil]

Of course they are. Their language is Eurasian, old Magyar steppic traditions too, but the people is 100% Yorupean.

Out of curiosity, what makes the Hungarian language more "eurasian" than any other european language?

[Melki]

You clearly know nothing of Sami (or khanty/mansi for that matter) culture if you believe they live like "steppe nomads" :laugh:
These traditions and customs were probably inherited from contacts with turkic tribes.

I worked for several years as a tour guide in Finnmark and, with all due respect, I know much more about Samis than you.:rolleyes: Yes, they used to have a nomadic way of life.
I'm less familiar with the Khantis and the Mansis, reindeer breeders too, though. But the Ottomans who invaded Hungary were highly Persianised and lost their Turanian customs and habits a long time before.

[Yggdrasil]

I worked for several years as a tour guide in Finnmark and, with all due respect, I know much more about Samis than you.:rolleyes: Yes, they used to have a nomadic way of life.
I'm less familiar with the Khantis and the Mansis, though. But the Ottomans who invaded Hungary were highly Persianised and lost their Turanian customs and habits a long time before.
Nomadic yes, as in herding reindeer and joiking,not steppic as in riding around on horses and living in yurts. Know the difference?
I'm not talking about ottoman influence on their culture, i'm talking about the ancient magyars clearly having documented contacts with turkic peoples of the volga region. That's where the turkic influence most likely comes from.

[Böri]

I worked for several years as a tour guide in Finnmark and, with all due respect, I know much more about Samis than you.:rolleyes: Yes, they used to have a nomadic way of life.
I'm less familiar with the Khantis and the Mansis, reindeer breeders too, though. But the Ottomans who invaded Hungary were highly Persianised and lost their Turanian customs and habits a long time before.

Seljuks were culturally Persianate and the Seljuks of Rum and later little beyliks destroyed that. When Hungary was reached centuries later by Turks of Osman little remained from Iranian cultural effect. Ottomans were also Balkan centered. With posts like that you raise my suspicions that you are actually a French Armenian:)

[oszkar07]

Nomadic yes, as in herding reindeer and joiking,not steppic as in riding around on horses and living in yurts. Know the difference?
I'm not talking about ottoman influence on their culture, i'm talking about the ancient magyars clearly having documented contacts with turkic peoples of the volga region. That's where the turkic influence most likely comes from.

CORRECT.

[Melki]

Out of curiosity, what makes the Hungarian language more "eurasian" than any other european language?

The language is Uralic, belonging to a family of languages spoken on both sides of this mountain range. Therefore as European as Asian.


Nomadic yes, as in herding reindeer and joiking,not steppic as in riding around on horses and living in yurts. Know the difference?
I'm not talking about ottoman influence on their culture, i'm talking about the ancient magyars clearly having documented contacts with turkic peoples of the volga region. That's where the turkic influence most likely comes from.

I never said there were steppic peoples. Samis live in the tundra and the Khantis/Mansis (whose language is related to Magyar) in the taiga, where wild herd of reindeer used to roam.
It's not impossible that ancient Magyars had contact with Oghuz or Kipchak tribes of nomads. The przewalski horse is the typical animal of the Eurasian steppes. The Altaic people, if not the Indo-European Tokharian tribes, domesticated it.

[Sekarotuinen]

Finns and our Hungarian cousins are proud steppe people, the mighty Finnic/Uralic Khans of old struck fear into European hearts.

[Melki]

Seljuks were culturally Persianate and the Seljuks of Rum and later little beyliks destroyed that. When Hungary was reached centuries later by Turks of Osman little remained from Iranian cultural effect. Ottomans were also Balkan centered. With posts like that you raise my suspicions that you are actually a French Armenian:)

I confirm that I'm neither Armenian, nor Peruvian. :p Nonetheless, I'm a true Turkophile. :)
Osmanli Turkish had a lot of Persian loan words. More than 50% of the vocabulary.

[Jana]

Finns and our Hungarian cousins are proud steppe people, the mighty Finnic/Uralic Khans of old struck fear into European hearts.

Finns have nothing to do with steppe. Original Finnic and Ugric people were fishermen and forest hunters, the horse-riding steppe lifestyle comes from contact with Turkic tribes that ancient Hungarians had.

[Sekarotuinen]

Finns have nothing to do with steppe. Original Finnic and Ugric people were fishermen and forest hunters, the horse-riding steppe lifestyle comes from contact with Turkic tribes that ancient Hungarians had.
It's a joke.

[brennus dux gallorum]

I LOVE MELKI's interventions in threads, even when he associates us with non-Europeans :D

[Melki]

I LOVE MELKI's interventions in threads, even when he associates us with non-Europeans :D

Thanks, but actually, I voted "yes, Hungarians are Europeans" in that poll. :p

[Dandelion]

It's a joke.

You are Eskimos who colonised Europe from America. ;)

[Yggdrasil]

The language is Uralic, belonging to a family of languages spoken on both sides of this mountain range. Therefore as European as Asian.
Less than 100 000 Uralic speakers live east of the ural mountains (out of a total population of 25 million). Are you ignoring the fact that there are millions upon millions of IE speakers in asia as well?
Also, both IE and Uralic languages originated in eurasia.


I never said there were steppic peoples. Samis live in the tundra and the Khantis/Mansis (whose language is related to Magyar) in the taiga, where wild herd of reindeer used to roam.
It's not impossible that ancient Magyars had contact with Oghuz or Kipchak tribes of nomads. The przewalski horse is the typical animal of the Eurasian steppes. The Altaic people, if not the Indo-European Tokharian tribes, domesticated it.
You posted pictures of typical "steppic" customs and then claimed it to be part of "the sami lifestyle". Based on that, i just assumed that's what you meant.

[Porn Master]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Languages1.svg/2000px-Languages1.svg.png

[Melki]

Less than 100 000 Uralic speakers live east of the ural mountains (out of a total population of 25 million). Are you ignoring the fact that there are millions upon millions of IE speakers in asia as well?
Also, both IE and Uralic languages originated in eurasia.


You posted pictures of typical "steppic" customs and then claimed it to be part of "the sami lifestyle". Based on that, i just assumed that's what you meant.

Uralic languages are closely related to Altaic languages which are mostly Asians.
Besides, you know that the Ural mountains are an artificial boundary, decided by philosopher Denis Diderot for Catherine the Great who asked the encyclopedist to draw a clear borderline between Europe and Asia. The Urals are not a natural frontier, they are more like hills with gentle slopes, not steep mountain peaks. This border might as well have been the Volga, the Ob or the Yenisey,...or simply the Pacific Ocean. Same vegetation, same fauna on both sides of the Urals.

As for the IE languages, I always keep in mind that it means Indo-European, an Eurasian family by nature...

[Porn Master]

Uralic languages are closely related to Altaic languages which are mostly Asians.
Besides, you know that the Ural mountains are an artificial boundary, decided by philosopher Denis Diderot for Catherine the Great who asked the encyclopedist to draw a clear borderline between Europe and Asia. The Urals are not a natural frontier, they are more like hills with gentle slopes, not steep mountain peaks. This border might as well have been the Volga, the Ob or the Yenisey,...or simply the Pacific Ocean. Same vegetation, same fauna on both sides of the Urals.

As for the IE languages, I always keep in mind that it means Indo-European, an Eurasian family by nature...



Uralic languages are not closely related to Altaic languages, it's just hypothesis.

[Melki]

Uralic languages are not closely related to Altaic languages, it's just hypothesis.

They share a lot of grammatical and phonological similarities in their structure, though.

[Yggdrasil]

Uralic languages are closely related to Altaic languages which are mostly Asians.
Besides, you know that the Ural mountains are an artificial boundary, decided by philosopher Denis Diderot for Catherine the Great who asked the encyclopedist to draw a clear borderline between Europe and Asia. The Urals are not a natural frontier, they are more like hills with gentle slopes, not steep mountain peaks. This border might as well have been the Volga, the Ob or the Yenisey,...or simply the Pacific Ocean. Same vegetation, same fauna on both sides of the Urals.

As for the IE languages, I always keep in mind that it means Indo-European, an Eurasian family by nature...

"Closely related" is kinda stretching it. The "Ural-altaic" theory has been abandoned by linguists. The grammatical and phonological similarities you speak of are very ancient and predates "Proto-uralic" (which was clearly spoken in the Volga-kama region) by thousands of years. You also should make a distinction between genetics and linguistics as the two are not the same and should not be treated as such.
I'm very confused as to what you're trying to accomplish with your "the urals is an artifical boundary" argument here. Are you denying the fact that the vast majority of Uralic speakers live in eastern/northern/central europe?

[Melki]

"Closely related" is kinda stretching it. The "Ural-altaic" theory has been abandoned by linguists. The grammatical and phonological similarities you speak of are very ancient and predates "Proto-uralic" (which was clearly spoken in the Volga-kama region) by thousands of years. You also should make a distinction between genetics and linguistics as the two are not the same and should not be treated as such.
I'm very confused as to what you're trying to accomplish with your "the urals is an artifical boundary" argument here. Are you denying the fact that the vast majority of Uralic speakers live in eastern/northern/central europe?

Samoyedes, east of the Urals, for example are extra-European, geographically, ethnically, genetically, and culturally,
And it's not because some linguists have abandonned the Uralo-Altaic hypothesis that it's not valid anymore.

[Dunai]

To be honest I was expecting even higher percentages of deniers of Hungarians being Europeans than 15%, as this site gathers a large amount of trolls and provocateurs. While the origins of the Magyars are Eurasian, for somewhat more than a thousand years we are Europeans racially, culturally, and if that doesn't count as "enough" to be accepted as a European than it's rather pointless to continue arguing about it.

[Stears]

Samoyedes, east of the Urals, for example are extra-European, geographically, ethnically, genetically, and culturally,
And it's not because some linguists have abandonned the Uralo-Altaic hypothesis that it's not valid anymore.


About the Finno-Ugric and IE language groups.


Just some Hard-facts: Finno-Ugric language group was born in N-Eastern Europe (in the Elbe- Baltic Sea - URal region), until the roots of ancient IE language groups go back to Asian continent (Minor Asia). In the Eurasian supercontinent, there are more native speakers of IE languages in the ASIAN continent than in Europen continent. (Just remember the large IE speaking populations of India Pakistan Iran)
However, the 97% of Finno-ugric speaking people live in Europe. Therefore to call finno-ugric languages as "asian languages" is laughable illogical, unscientific and misleading.


TYPE IN ENGLISH WIKIPEDIA:"Proto Indo Europeans"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Europeans


and see the maps about original ancient IE people!France Britain Italy haven't significant proto indoEuropean genes.The Germanic people have also very very low ratio of ancient IE haplogroup markers (R1a),only Eastern Europeans have high ratio of original proto IE haplogroups markers in Europe. Western European languages belongs to IE language group,but in very very distant way.(Have you ever heard about language-shift? The IE linguistic effect spreaded as a lingua franca and as a „dealer language” between many many populations during thousands of years) The real genetic IE people equal with the Eastern European people ( indians and iranians in the Asian continent.) Therefore being real (genetic) descendants of Indo-Europeans represent lower culture, technology & lower scientific and economic development in the European continent.

[Melki]

It would be interesting to know the origin of Turul, the mythological Magyar raptor bird.

It's more than probably of Turkic origin. Birds of prey (kites, hawks, gyrfalcons) were used for hunting in the steppes. Today, many Turks have Şahin ("hawk, buzzard") or Doğan ("falcon") as surnames. (Erdoğan means "falconman", if I'm not wrong)

[Yggdrasil]

Samoyedes, east of the Urals, for example are extra-European, geographically, ethnically, genetically, and culturally,
And it's not because some linguists have abandonned the Uralo-Altaic hypothesis that it's not valid anymore.

Samoyeds are peculiar because they are so different from other Uralic populations, both genetically and culturally. They are pretty much the only uralic group that has a clear predominance of Siberian genes compared to european ones (Mansi and Khanty are racially mixed as well, but the european side predominates slightly). Most linguists seem to believe they're recent language shifters so it makes sense.
The VAST majority of linguists HAVE abandoned the ural-altaic hypothesis simply because the similarities of the two language groups are not enough to suggest a recent common ancestor. There are however obvious links that cannot be ignored and pre-proto-uralic/proto-altaic might have been spoken near the vicinity of each other.

[Yggdrasil]

To be honest I was expecting even higher percentages of deniers of Hungarians being Europeans than 15%, as this site gathers a large amount of trolls and provocateurs. While the origins of the Magyars are Eurasian, for somewhat more than a thousand years we are Europeans racially, culturally, and if that doesn't count as "enough" to be accepted as a European than it's rather pointless to continue arguing about it.

What's very interesting is that even in 1000 AD Hungary, the population was, biologically speaking, almost exclusively made up of europeans.