Iran and Hungarian party form anti-Semitic alliance

[Szegedist]

http://cdn.timesofisrael.com/uploads/2013/03/Dr.-Afi-Hossein-Jarhomi-and-Gabor-Vona-e1362989154629-965x543.jpg


Isolated and anti-Western, a pair of pariahs find common ground in their outspoken opposition to Jewish interests

BUDAPEST, Hungary (JTA) — The potholed streets leading to Tiszavasvari’s rusty train station offer no clue that this sleepy town of 12,000 in eastern Hungary is considered the “capital of Jobbik,” the country’s ultranationalist, anti-Jewish party whose name means “better.”

The first sign appears near the office of the mayor, Erik Fulop, the first of five Jobbik politicians elected to run a Hungarian municipality. Shortly after taking office in 2010, Fulop set up a twinning arrangement between Tiszavasvari and the Iranian city of Ardabil, and a sign in Hungarian and Farsi near the office celebrates those ties.



Observers say the announcement of the twinning arrangement was the first international event held in Hungary under Jobbik’s auspices and a mark of a growing partnership aimed at breaking through the isolation that both the party and the Iranian government are laboring under — Iran for its suspected nuclear weapons program and support for terrorism, Jobbik for its hyper-nationalism and anti-Semitism.

‘It is no coincidence that Jobbik is intensifying its anti-Israel propaganda the more it tightens its ties with Iran’
Tiszavasvari’s official website states that “the embargo on Iran is merely a way for world powers to monopolize trade with Iran,” and expresses hope that the town “may lead the way to reversing this process.” Jobbik’s leader, Gabor Vona, has hosted a number of Iranian delegations there since the start of the twinning arrangement.

“The Persian people and their leaders are considered pariahs in the eyes of the West, which serves Israeli interests,” said Marton Gyongyosi, Jobbik’s foreign policy chief, at a pro-Iran demonstration organized by the party in December at the US Embassy in Budapest. “This is why we have solidarity with the peaceful nation of Iran and turn to her with an open heart.”

Jobbik’s meteoric rise since its founding in 2003 has long been a source of consternation to Hungary’s Jewish communal leaders, some of whom fear its growth is a driving factor behind Jewish emigration from the central European country. Currently the third-largest faction in parliament, Jobbik has increased its share of the popular vote nearly eightfold in the four years prior to 2010, and currently holds 47 of 386 parliamentary seats.

Less well known is the party’s intensifying partnership with Iran. Following Fulop’s decision to twin with Ardabil, another Jobbik mayor, Juhasz Oszkar of Gyogyospata, also twinned with an Iranian municipality. Top Jobbik figures joined Hungarian businessmen on a trip to Iran to help deepen commercial ties between the countries. And Jobbik is one of only two parties represented in parliament’s Hungarian-Iranian Friendship Committee.

“It is anti-Semitism that binds the Hungarian ultranationalists with the ayatollahs of Tehran in a nexus of hate,” Abraham Foxman, the national director of the Anti-Defamation League, wrote in 2011. “That is all they have in common.”

In truth, Jobbik’s affinity toward Iran goes much deeper. The party is intensely opposed to globalization and the unification of Europe, lacks for international partners due to its radical rhetoric and sees in Iran not only one of the few governments willing to engage with it, but one with a shared commitment to resisting Western hegemony.

‘Jobbik’s fanaticism has made it an outcast even in Europe’s extreme right’
Jobbik officials did not reply to repeated requests for an interview, but party sources did speak to investigative journalist Ferenc Szlazsanszky, who believes the party is determined to nurture relations with any country capable of helping Hungary end its “enslavement” by the European Union and the United States.

According to Szlazsanszky, a writer with the Hungarian weekly Hetek, the “driving force” behind Jobbik’s pro-Iranian stance is Gyongyosi, the foreign policy chief, who drew a volley of international criticism in November when he called for the registration of Hungarian Jews, citing their potential as a security risk. He said later he was referring to Hungarian Israelis.

The son of a diplomat, Gyongyosi lived as a boy in several Muslim countries, and his ties in the East were a major factor in shaping the party’s pro-Muslim stance, Szlazsanszky wrote in November.

“It is unacceptable that the once flourishing trade between Iran and Hungary sank to almost zero; this is what Jobbik intends to change,” Gyongyosi said in a recent interview in Barikad!, a Jobbik-affiliated weekly. “For Iran, Hungary is the West and for Hungary Iran is the gate to the East.”

Jobbik’s general antagonism toward Israel has blossomed in recent months into a fully fledged campaign. Gyongyosi has announced a national tour of lectures on the “Zionist threat to world peace.” In parallel, anti-Jewish and anti-Israel articles now take up more than 30 percent of the content on the party’s English-language website.

“It is no coincidence that Jobbik is intensifying its anti-Israel propaganda the more it tightens its ties with Iran,” said Joel Rubinfeld, co-chairman of the Brussels-based European Jewish Parliament, who recently returned from a round of talks in Hungary. “The time correlation is one of the ways in which we see the Iranian fingerprint on Jobbik.”

One of the few people with insider knowledge of the Jobbik-Iran axis is Afi Hossein Jahromi, an Iranian-born dentist, founder of the Hungarian Iranian Business Group and a personal friend of Gyongyosi.

Jobbik and Iran are united not ‘by anti-Israel sentiment, but by the refusal to be ruled and ruined by the European Union’
In 2011, Jahromi helped organize an economic mission to Iran in cooperation with the Iranian embassy. The trip was aimed at reversing a 90 percent drop in trade between the two countries, from $400 million to $40 million since 2000, Jahromi said. The period in question coincided with the tightening of international sanctions against the Islamic Republic in an effort to curb its suspected nuclear weapons program.

“I’m not about the politics. I just want to create more business,” Jahromi said in an interview at the Persian restaurant he owns in Budapest. “If Jobbik enters government next year, I think things may improve because Jobbik wants what’s good for Hungary, not for the EU.”

As with Iran’s alliances with other rogue regimes, like Syria and Venezuela, the country’s partnership with Jobbik may be one of simple convenience. Neither has many friends from which to choose.

“Jobbik’s fanaticism has made it an outcast even in Europe’s extreme right,” said Attila Ara-Kovacs, a philosopher, journalist and former secretary of the Alliance of Free Democrats-Hungarian Liberal Party. “Jobbik’s territorial claims rule out alliances with like-minded movements in neighboring countries. And the extreme right in Western Europe wouldn’t touch them. So Iran is all Jobbik has left.”

Others see the partnership as based not on a common enemy, but a shared interest — the refusal to be subordinate to the interests of Europe and the United States. Like most European far-right parties, Jobbik’s primary electoral appeal is to voters frightened by the encroachment of the European superstate and the possible diminution of local identities.

“Iranians and Hungarians are joined not by circumstances nor by anti-Israel sentiment, but by the refusal to be ruled and ruined by the European Union, which has ravaged Spain and Greece,” Jahromi said. “Hungarians refuse to be next. But it’s easier for the European media to focus on the anti-Israel bit.”

http://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-and-hungarian-party-form-anti-semitic-alliance/

[Grenzland]

They are both enemies of Israel, nothing more.

I don't think they created an alliance just to hate Jews together... :D

[Corvus]

Good alliance, one step in the right direction

[Baluarte]

Good alliance, one step in the right direction

I agree.

Everybody stupidly condemns Iran while opening their ass to Qatar and its petroinvestments.

Good decision for Hungarians.

[Partizan]

Err... JOBBIK seems to forget that, in every legend, TURAN is the deadly enemy of IRAN/ARYAN.

[Baluarte]

Err... JOBBIK seems to forget that, in every legend, TURAN is the deadly enemy of IRAN/ARYAN.

Who cares about Turan?
What matters for them should be defending Hungary (an European country) by making smart alliances. That's about it.

[Corvus]

Err... JOBBIK seems to forget that, in every legend, TURAN is the deadly enemy of IRAN/ARYAN.

But also in the past there have been fierce rivals who cooperated when a new common enemy wanted to intrude
Just think of the Roman/West Gothic alliance agains the Huns

[Partizan]

Who cares about Turan?
What matters for them should be defending Hungary (an European country) by making smart alliances. That's about it.

Most JOBBIK leaders are Turanists. So, if they align with some country where oppresses Turkic people(Azeris) that is just contradictory. I am anti-Zionist too but my kin(Azeri Turks) come before Palestinian Arabs.


But also in the past there have been fierce rivals who cooperated when a new common enemy wanted to intrude
Just think of the Roman/West Gothic alliance agains the Huns

Well, Israel might be a cruel country but still no worse than Iran. I can understand it for Chavez, who had to align with anybody Anti-American but Iran is one of the most cruel states in the World.

[Baluarte]

Most JOBBIK leaders are Turanists. So, if they align with some country where oppresses Turkic people(Azeris) that is just contradictory. I am anti-Zionist too but my kin(Azeri Turks) come before Palestinian Arabs.


Turanism is just an impediment for Hungary. Dumb proto-worldvision
I'm sure Jobbik will understand it soon enough once they have to start dealing with real life in Europe and their potential neighbours/allies from the continent.

[Szegedist]

Turanism is just an impediment for Hungary. Dumb proto-worldvision
Erm no, it is about the Hungarian National Identity.


I'm sure Jobbik will understand it soon enough once they have to start dealing with real life in Europe and
Jobbik does deal with the reality in Europe.



their potential neighbours/allies from the continent.
:laugh:

[Szegedist]

Err... JOBBIK seems to forget that, in every legend, TURAN is the deadly enemy of IRAN/ARYAN.

Are the Iranians deadly enemies to us today?

Off course I don't support everything they do, however Iranian-Hungarian economic ties used to be strong, but in less than a decade they decreased by 100 times. We can only benefit if this was the case today, and I do not see how it could be a danger to Turkic states, etc.

[Partizan]

Are the Iranians deadly enemies to us today?

Off course I don't support everything they do, however Iranian-Hungarian economic ties used to be strong, but in less than a decade they decreased by 100 times. We can only benefit if this was the case today, and I do not see how it could be a danger to Turkic states, etc.

Well, Iran always try to export Sharia to Azerbaijan and try to expand "Shia Crescent" there. Actually as a Turk, both Israel and Iran are hostile to me but Iran is always one of the worst ones.

[Baluarte]

Erm no, it is about the Hungarian National Identity.


What will Stears answer me if I ask him about this?

[Szegedist]

Well, Iran always try to export Sharia to Azerbaijan and try to expand "Shia Crescent" there. Actually as a Turk, both Israel and Iran are hostile to me but Iran is always one of the worst ones.

Off course I support Azerbaijan over this. Politically however we cannot achieve perfect Turanism in today's world. For example Turkey is friends with the USA , while Jobbik is anti-USA. It is about finding the right balance.


What will Stears answer me if I ask him about this?

Go ahead and ask him ;)

[Géza]

Nowadays Hungarian nationalists have not a consequent idea. They want keep friends with everybody, not follow some monolithic ideas.

[Grenzland]

That's true, the Magyar Nationalism differs very much.

Is the idea of Turanism and unity with the Turks still popular?

[Cern]

That's true, the Magyar Nationalism differs very much.

Is the idea of Turanism and unity with the Turks still popular?

Average hungarian do not know what the turanism.

[Grenzland]

To be honest, I don't think Turanism makes sense for Magyars...

[Szegedist]

To be honest, I don't think Turanism makes sense for Magyars...


It makes more sense than White Nationalism or Eurocentrism for Hungarians, that's for sure.

[Baluarte]

Hungarian Nationalism doesn't need neither WN nor Turanism. It just need Hungarian pride.

[Szegedist]

Hungarian Nationalism doesn't need neither WN nor Turanism. It just need Hungarian pride.

Turanism is simply taking pride in our ancestors and ethnocultural origins, warrior people from the Steppes.

[Baluarte]

Then why the "Turkic brotherhood" when you're actually closer to Uralic Estonians/Finns?
That's the only issue I have with Turanism. Alters somehow Hungarian identity.

[Grenzland]

It makes more sense than White Nationalism or Eurocentrism for Hungarians, that's for sure.

What's the problem with Eurocentrism for Magyars?

[Szegedist]

Then why the "Turkic brotherhood" when you're actually closer to Uralic Estonians/Finns?
That's the only issue I have with Turanism. Alters somehow Hungarian identity.



In what possible way on this planet are we closer to Estonians/Finns than to Turkics?

[Szegedist]

What's the problem with Eurocentrism for Magyars?

Differing interests.

[Grenzland]

Differing interests.

E.g?

[Sky earth]

The Jobbik Party is just contradictory when they work together with Iran a sick Islamic country with no moral or human rights who oppress their "Turanic" brothers the Azeris.

[Baluarte]

Finno Ugric peoples:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Fenno-Ugrian_people.png

[Szegedist]

Finno Ugric peoples:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Fenno-Ugrian_people.png

???? Is this it.

Culturally, mentally, and historically we have nothing in common with Finnsor Estonians. They were marsh dwellers in the remote regions of Europe who did not have a state until the 20th century, while we were horse riders that conquered and established a state in the heart of Europe, and everytime we lost our statehood we fought to get it back, while the Finnics just kept fishing through the marshes.

The only thing that binds us together with the Finnics are some supposed words that we have in common, and that is it, there is nothing else. Not even common interests.

[Baluarte]

What do you think about this extrait copied from English wikipedia? Wrong or right?


The Hungarians were nomads before the Hungarian conquest of the Carpathian Basin and their culture was similar to other steppe peoples. However, their Central Asian origin is not supported by academic researches, and the term "Turanian" quickly became an archaism.[1] Scholars prefer a Uralic homeland of ancient Hungarian conquerors (mainly on linguistic grounds and recent genetic researches of ancient fossils) rather than a Central Asian. The ancient relations of the Hungarians and their interactions with other equestrian nomadic peoples are still debated issues. Despite the Hungarian Academy of Sciences having always rejected the Turanic origin theory, it gained wide currency among the Hungarian political right in the years between the two world wars and became an element in Hungarian fascist ideology.
Extremist turanists have even emphasized “ties of ancestry” with the Tibetan, Japanese, and Korean peoples or the ancient Sumerians.[2] The idea of the necessity for "Turanian brotherhood and collaboration" was borrowed from the "Slavic brotherhood and collaboration" idea of Panslavism.[3]

[Grenzland]

The Jobbik Party is just contradictory when they work together with Iran a sick Islamic country with no moral or human rights who oppress their "Turanic" brothers the Azeris.

I'm confused. Does the Jobbik party support Turanism or not?

And what's the problem with Eurocentrism? Hungary is in the middle of Europe compared to Romania and romanian nationalists support Eurocentrism.

Can someone explain this to me?

[Sky earth]

In what possible way on this planet are we closer to Estonians/Finns than to Turkics?

Hungarians are leastwise connected by language with Finns and Estonians. What do you have culturally in common with Turkics besides your steppe warrior past? The answer is nothing.

[Szegedist]

What do you think about this extrait copied from English wikipedia? Wrong or right?



It is neither wrong or right. Like I said before, the Finno-Ugric theory, nor a Turkic theory can explain the origin of the Hungarians. We were a fusion of the two components, and most likely also an Iranic component.

[Szegedist]

I'm confused. Does the Jobbik party support Turanism or not?



Gabor Vona Jobbik President in the Hungarian Parliament
During the recent past decades of Hungarian public life, Jobbik was the first to talk decisively about the idea of Hungary turning towards the East. There were voices raised, here and there, and feeble attempts which never amounted to much, but it was we, the Jobbik, that proposed a consistent program of policies and showed the way, pointing East.

Many people, of course, only perceived this kind of thinking as a sort of romantic idealism about the ancient origin of Hungarians; of course that is part of it, and it is what gave the impetus to the unfolding of this kind of ideology. However, it is not that backward looking nostalgia that is the most important aspect of this ideology. So, why is Jobbik so much in favour of Hungary turning towards the East, and in fact, what does this all mean?

Hungary stands desperately lonesome in the arena of world politics. Because of the problems we face in international politics, we are in dire need of close and supportive alliances. However, we have no allies. And, no one should foolishly believe that the attempts of the last 20 years to corral us into NATO and the EU, have alleviated the pains of our isolation. Our seemingly benign alliance with the Euro-Atlantic community, which appeared to offer a protective umbrella, has put us in an even more indentured and powerless position. Now, we are not just alone, but we are also obliged to stay that way. We are prevented from building independent, key relationships which would have the expected positive benefits in our cultural, social and economic life. We have to break out of this situation, but unfortunately, the trap we find ourselves in is made stronger by the actions of the current leading parties, Fidesz and MSZP, who are so in sync with Euro-Atlantic interests that they either do not notice the situation we are in, or if they do, they are incapable of doing anything for the advancement of Hungarian national interests.

The Jobbik party is the only political force in Hungary, which has the freedom to develop a strategy for foreign policy not constrained and influenced by financial or political circles, but based solely on the pursuit of national interests. We are convinced that only the East provides a break-out solution for our nation. . And what immense opportunities this opening holds for us!

We, Hungarians are the most westerly of the Eastern people. If we put aside the lies about our Finno-Ugric origin, and only profess that we are the descendents of Attila, we would suddenly find hundreds of millions ready to form a common basis for alliance. In fact, there are about two hundred million people living in the world today, who can say that they are descendants of Attila. It is not possible, of course, to build a political strategy based on this fact alone. However, if we take a look at the countries from Bulgaria to Turkey and all the way across to Eastern Asia, we realise that we, Hungarians could have a lot of common political objectives with these countries. We come to realise that an alliance based and developed on the principles of Turanism instead of the Euro-Atlantic alliance would be more effective in serving the needs and interests of our nation.

In order to avoid misunderstandings, we need to clarify that this would in no way mean that Hungary should separate from Europe. In fact, what we propose would mean a strengthening of our position in Europe, as Hungary could thus become the Western bastion of a Turanic alliance, as well as its representative within the European Union. We also need not worry about the fact that as a Christian nation, we would be dealing with non-Christian nations. Living a non-Christian way of life is already a common, wide-spread practice within the EU. Besides which, we can safely say that a true Muslim believer or any other true believer in their own country is closer to God the Almighty, than non-practicing Christians inhabiting Europe today. If Hungary wants to regain its positions as a strong player on the stage of international politics it should not head in the direction showed by Fidesz and MSZP, the clownish antics exhibited within the EU, but instead membership in a Turanic alliance , or if needed, its leading role and initiative in forming such an alliance.

As Jobbik party president, I am now taking the first step by declaring here in Hungary and before the whole world: I am Hungarian, grandson of Attila! Come what may, I am ready!

by Gábor Vona, President of Jobbik Movement for a Better Hungary


And what's the problem with Eurocentrism? Hungary is in the middle of Europe compared to Romania and romanian nationalists support Eurocentrism.

Can someone explain this to me?
It is nothing to do with to do with location. We simply have no need to have to prove to other Europeans that we are White or European. You preach to us about European Unity, and we reject this until the crimes of Trianon are at least partially mended. Also you always looked down on us, from German propaganda in the 10th century to Habsburg propaganda, to WW1 era anti-Hungarian propaganda, etc. Plus there is little room for political co-operation, even Western European nationalist parties distance themselves from Jobbik and wouldn't touch them with a 10m stick.

[Sky earth]

It is neither wrong or right. Like I said before, the Finno-Ugric theory, nor a Turkic theory can explain the origin of the Hungarians. We were a fusion of the two components, and most likely also an Iranic component.

There is no Finno-Ugric theory. It's a fact that Hungarians are Finno-Ugric and no serious scholar or linguist in this world denies that only some Turanists who can't accept the truth that Hungarians are not related with the great steppe warriors in Central Asia but with the peaceful and "backward" fisher tribes like Khanties from the Ural mountain. Magyars assimilated many Turkics and some Iranian tribes like Alans and adopted their culture on their way to Pannonia but that doesn't change your true origin.

[Szegedist]

Linguistic origin =/= ethnic origin or cultural origin

To say, "Hungarians speak Finno-Ugric, therefore they are Finno-Ugric, and that is it, full stop" is very wrong.

Fact is, apart from some vague linguistic similarities, nothing else supports the Finno-Ugric theory.

[Sky earth]

Linguistic origin =/= ethnic origin or cultural origin

To say, "Hungarians speak Finno-Ugric, therefore they are Finno-Ugric, and that is it, full stop" is very wrong.

Sorry but Language is the most important cultural identity of humans. Turks speak a Turkic language today and what is our most cultural connection with our ancestors? It's the language. Or do you think that Ottomans have culturally anything in common with the Gokturks beside their language? No they haven't. The culture was Islamic/Arabic and the language was also heavily Iranized/arabized. Should we call them bedouin Arabs then? No because they spoke a Turkic language

[Grenzland]

Some of you are still pissed of because of Trianon? To be sure, we both talk about THIS http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trianoni_békeszerződés ?

Are you kidding me. This is now nearly 100 years away and not even important today.

This is a reason to cooperate with the Turks? Why? Because you both had horses and lived in the steppes? How do you cooperate with the Grey Wolves? You aren't Islamic!

[Szegedist]

Some of you are still pissed of because of Trianon? To be sure, we both talk about THIS http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trianoni_békeszerződés ?

Are you kidding me. This is now nearly 100 years away and not even important today.
And this is what I am talking about, thank you for demonstrating my point.


This is a reason to cooperate with the Turks? Why? Because you both had horses and lived in the steppes? How do you cooperate with the Grey Wolves? You aren't Islamic!
No, this is not why we want to co-operate with Turks.

Anyway, haters gonna hate
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-305999-turkey-and-hungary-set-to-boost-ties.html

[Grenzland]

No, this is not why we want to co-operate with Turks.


Explain me the reason!

[Sky earth]

I'm confused. Does the Jobbik party support Turanism or not?

And what's the problem with Eurocentrism? Hungary is in the middle of Europe compared to Romania and romanian nationalists support Eurocentrism.

Can someone explain this to me?

I'm sure that most Hungarians are not like Szegedist. The Jobbik party is a hardcore Turanist, Neo Fascist and Neo-Nazist Party in Hungary. They believe that Hungarians are the pure descendants of Huns and think they are related to Sumerians. Pathetic I know

[Szegedist]

I'm sure that most Hungarians are not like Szegedist. The Jobbik party is a hardcore Turanist, Neo Fascist and Neo-Nazist Party in Hungary. They believe that Hungarians are the pure descendants of Huns and think they are related to Sumerians.



:picard1::picard2:

Jobbik is not hardcore Turanist, it is not Neo-Fascist, it is definitelly not Neo-Nazist, they do not think we are the pure descendants of the Huns and they never ever mentioned Sumerians.

Where do you come up with so much crap? You don't even know what you are talking about and simply make baseless comments.

[Szegedist]

Anyway, Turanism is not just Jobbik, and Jobbik did not invent it, I know Turanist MSzP supporters (was surprised myself at this), and there are also people with Turanist views in Fidesz too. Jobbik is simply the most outspoken, while the other two are eurocentrist pro Brussels (one more than the other).

[Philo]

Err... JOBBIK seems to forget that, in every legend, TURAN is the deadly enemy of IRAN/ARYAN.

And Jews and Persians always had warm relations before Islam:D

[Cern]

Turanist issue no significance in Hungary. Hungarians are not interested.

[Hayalet]

Linguistic origin =/= ethnic origin or cultural origin

To say, "Hungarians speak Finno-Ugric, therefore they are Finno-Ugric, and that is it, full stop" is very wrong.

Fact is, apart from some vague linguistic similarities, nothing else supports the Finno-Ugric theory.
Ethnic identity and language go hand in hand in the Old World. It's true that Hungarians had greater proximity to Turkic groups than to other Finno-Ugric or Uralic groups in the last 1500 years, but there is no need to mix things up.

[Sky earth]

:picard1::picard2:

Jobbik is not hardcore Turanist, it is not Neo-Fascist, it is definitelly not Neo-Nazist, they do not think we are the pure descendants of the Huns and they never ever mentioned Sumerians.

Where do you come up with so much crap? You don't even know what you are talking about and simply make baseless comments.

Have you ever read some comments from Jobbik politicans about Jews and Gypsies? Of course They are Turanists. What do you think they believe? That they are related to Mansies and Khanties? Please inform yourself about your favourite party before you write senseless shit

[Dombra]

Sorry but Language is the most important cultural identity of humans. Turks speak a Turkic language today and what is our most cultural connection with our ancestors? It's the language. Or do you think that Ottomans have culturally anything in common with the Gokturks beside their language? No they haven't. The culture was Islamic/Arabic and the language was also heavily Iranized/arabized. Should we call them bedouin Arabs then? No because they spoke a Turkic language

Can we have this post as a rule before any Hungarians write further illusions?

[Szegedist]

Turanist issue no significance in Hungary. Hungarians are not interested.

I would not say that it is of no significance whatsoever.

Anyway, the majority only care about their pockets, and the majority voted for MSzP-SzDSz coalition a few times, does that mean it is good?

Jobbik simply supports a pro Eastern foreign policy, and take pride in the steppe origin of Hungarians.

[Grenzland]

while the other two are eurocentrist pro Brussels (one more than the other).

:rolleyes:

I agree with your anti-EU opinion but I still don't get it.

All nationalists are against the EU because the EU is anti-nationalist. But as a (in my opinion) European folk you prefer to join the definitely non-European Turkey and even Turan. Why?

Because of the Habsburg era and the Treaty of Trianon? What about the Turkish occupation?
Or is it because you once came from the steppe? Maybe it's for me as a German hard to understand this but you actually don't live there anymore...

[Szegedist]

Have you even read some comments from Jobbik politicans about Jews and Gypsies? They are Turanists. What do you think they believe? That they are related to Mansies and Khanties? Please inform yourself about your favourite party before you write senseless shit
You are uninformed, writing crap about Sumerians which they never even mentioned. And since when is being against Israeli foreign policy and Gypsy Crime neo-fascism or neo-nazism?



Can we have this post as a rule before any Hungarians write further illusions?

So Finns are closer to Hungarians than Swedes because of language?

[Dombra]

So Finns are closer to Hungarians than Swedes because of language?[/QUOTE]

Don´t deny your Uralic ancestry, boy

[Sky earth]

You are uninformed, writing crap about Sumerians which they never even mentioned. And since when is being against Israeli foreign policy and Gypsy Crime neo-fascism or neo-nazism?




So Finns are closer to Hungarians than Swedes because of language?

I know many Hungarians on the internet who believe in the Sumero-Hungarian language crap and I read somewhere that the Jobbik party also believes in a language connection between Hungarians and Sumerians. The party can be against the Israeli foreign policiy but that don't give them the rights to call Jews as "safety risk" and therefore capture all Jewish Hungarians in lists. There is no difference between Nazi Germany and Hungary when they do this.

[Szegedist]

I know many Hungarians on the internet who believe in the Sumero-Hungarian language crap and read somewhere that the Jobbik party also believes in a language connection between Hungarians and Sumerians.
Jobbik has not talked about anything related to the Sumerians.



The party can be against the Israeli foreign policiy but that don't give them the rights to call Jews as "safety risk" and therefore capture all Jewish Hungarians in lists. There is no difference between Nazi Germany and Hungary when they do this.
They wanted to make a list of Hungarian politicians who also have an Israeli Passport, since that is indeed a security risk because they could guide Hungary to serve Israeli interests. I think you also have some similar law in Turkey. If not, would you like someone with an Iranian or Armenian dual citizenship in the Turkish parliament?


Gyöngyösi's words were twisted by the media to say that he wanted to make a list of every single jew in the country...

[Baluarte]

They wanted to make a list of Hungarian politicians who also have an Israeli Passport, since that is indeed a security risk because they could guide Hungary to serve Israeli interests.

This is an amazing proposal.
Very well thought :)

[Philo]

This is an amazing proposal.
Very well thought :)

What if I proposed to do the same thing to every European politician with Arab ancestry/citizenship? Would you say it's a great proposal?

[Szegedist]

:rolleyes:

I agree with your anti-EU opinion but I still don't get it.

All nationalists are against the EU because the EU is anti-nationalist. But as a (in my opinion) European folk you prefer to join the definitely non-European Turkey and even Turan. Why?

Because of the Habsburg era and the Treaty of Trianon? What about the Turkish occupation?
Or is it because you once came from the steppe? Maybe it's for me as a German hard to understand this but you actually don't live there anymore...


Ok, Lets say Turanism is a lot of rubbish, does it mean we cannot have good relations with Central Asia, the Middle East, Far east, etc?

Hungarian economy depends on the West, and today is mostly service based. We want to change this, start exporting to the East, etc. To renew our once flourishing industry, agriculture. We have one of the best arable lands in Europe and we import more food than we grow ourselves thanks to "EU regulations" FFS.

Not just Turkic nations. For example Iran too, Hungary had a very flourishing trade with Iran which was destroyed by Western centric politics and also sanctions against Iran. It is a huge potential for us.

Also there is no future in Europe, most of your "nationalist parties" are simply anti-immigration ones. This will not change. The current Hungarian government would pass as nationalist in a country like Sweden or Netherlands. And even Le Pen, the BNP, etc distanced themselves from Jobbik.

Then there is also the issue that if Jobbik ever wins, Hungary will experience sanctions. Look what happened to Austria, even the coalition government with FPÖ was enough for them. While a country like Iran would not give a rats ass whether our "demokratic insituttions" are in order or not.



So to put it simply, Turanism or no Turanism, the 'Eastern Opening' is simply logical and necessary, and they would certainly not start howling like the West did when we banned same sex marriage.



Anyone have better ideas or alternatives? Or are you going to spew the same crap "White brotherhood 14/88", "Romanian-Hungarian brotherhood 14/88"?

[RussiaPrussia]

It makes more sense than White Nationalism or Eurocentrism for Hungarians, that's for sure.


In what possible way on this planet are we closer to Estonians/Finns than to Turkics?


???? Is this it.

Culturally, mentally, and historically we have nothing in common with Finnsor Estonians. They were marsh dwellers in the remote regions of Europe who did not have a state until the 20th century, while we were horse riders that conquered and established a state in the heart of Europe, and everytime we lost our statehood we fought to get it back, while the Finnics just kept fishing through the marshes.

The only thing that binds us together with the Finnics are some supposed words that we have in common, and that is it, there is nothing else. Not even common interests.

:laugh: you feel conected to your lost relatives

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Die_drei_Bogatyr.jpg

[Baluarte]

Ok, Lets say Turanism is a lot of rubbish, does it mean we cannot have good relations with Central Asia, the Middle East, Far east, etc?

Hungarian economy depends on the West, and today is mostly service based. We want to change this, start exporting to the East, etc. To renew our once flourishing industry, agriculture. We have one of the best arable lands in Europe and we import more food than we grow ourselves thanks to "EU regulations" FFS.

Not just Turkic nations. For example Iran too, Hungary had a very flourishing trade with Iran which was destroyed by Western centric politics and also sanctions against Iran. It is a huge potential for us.

Also there is no future in Europe, most of your "nationalist parties" are simply anti-immigration ones. This will not change. The current Hungarian government would pass as nationalist in a country like Sweden or Netherlands. And even Le Pen, the BNP, etc distanced themselves from Jobbik.

Then there is also the issue that if Jobbik ever wins, Hungary will experience sanctions. Look what happened to Austria, even the coalition government with FPÖ was enough for them. While a country like Iran would not give a rats ass whether our "demokratic insituttions" are in order or not.



So to put it simply, Turanism or no Turanism, the 'Eastern Opening' is simply logical and necessary, and they would certainly not start howling like the West did when we banned same sex marriage.



Anyone have better ideas or alternatives? Or are you going to spew the same crap "White brotherhood 14/88", "Romanian-Hungarian brotherhood 14/88"?

I think most smart people here are for a close relation with Iran and Assad's Syria as a means to fight AtlantoZionism.
Only deluded islamophobes would oppose to that.


I genuinely prefer this point of view you've just stated here, and I'm glad to attest that slowly but surely I find myself agreeing more and more with you.

Cheers.

@RussiaPrussia

Don't troll please :S

[Tanais]

There is no Finno-Ugric theory.
There is.:bored:

[Dombra]

Hungarians, why are you backstabbing the Uralics? Do you really need IE and Turks to tell you that you are just dreaming aout Ghenghis?

[riverman]

'Semitic' and 'Israel' aren't the same thing:ranger:

[Szegedist]

Hungarians, why are you backstabbing the Uralics? Do you really need IE and Turks to tell you that you are just dreaming aout Ghenghis?

1) Of what relevance is Genghis ?
2) How are be backstabbing Uralics? Is there some Uralic alliance we never heard of, some Uralic historic Brotherhood?

[Szegedist]

I think most smart people here are for a close relation with Iran and Assad's Syria as a means to fight AtlantoZionism.
Only deluded islamophobes would oppose to that.


I genuinely prefer this point of view you've just stated here, and I'm glad to attest that slowly but surely I find myself agreeing more and more with you.

Cheers.


The fact is, those who disagree with this foreign policy are either:
Naive
Cannot see the bigger picture/ closed minded
Unrealistic
Dumb
Puppets of the Vattican
All of the above


So far people only said criticisms, and when I asked for alternatives they provided absolutely nothing.

What is Golden's Dawn plan? If they ever get into power Greece will be sanctioned into oblivion with no allies whatsoever, and no amount of "nationalsozialistischen Weltanschauung" or "Aryan Christian Brotherhood" will help that.
Jobbik has actual plans and views of it's own, and want the best future for Hungary, they try think ahead, think realistic. Sure they are far from perfect, but their program is one of the best of the European nationalist parties that actually has a shot at power.


Tell me, what possible use would Eurocentrism be to a Nationalist Hungary? Western Europe, and probably most of Eastern Europe would keep themselves as far away as possible. This isolating is already happening under a moderate conservative government, what do you think would happen if Jobbik won? Even if Le Pen or Heinz-Christian Strache won in France, Austria, they would keep their distance from Hungary, so what the hell are we discussing here?

Turanism also has it's role too, especially domestically. Sure many might not know what the word means, but Huns, Attila, Csaba, etc are all in our folklore, and such things can only strengthen the national identity, not weaken it.

By the way, here are some winners of a Childrens Drawing competition

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HtSI6QxIfSg/TD_KwifvekI/AAAAAAAAEYs/Ajume4xeK48/s1600/rajzverseny2.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HtSI6QxIfSg/TD_KY4mCNMI/AAAAAAAAEYk/zZnh5xC5if4/s1600/rajzverseny1.jpg

It is far from a "fringe ideology". Turanism itself is simply an extetion of the Hungarian folklore, legends , accept Turkic people as distant cousins. Many people know the former, so they are halfway there. Some antis on the internet will not change this. The Vatican has tried for many years and failed. This is why I hope Protestantism will gain strengh in Hungary again, because the antis are no better than Habsburg puppets.





Historically, both the Germanics to the West of us, and the Ottomans to the south of us have been our enemies, we fought against them. People forget that the Holy Roman Empire wanted to exterminate us and attempted to invade us several times. The difference is, we were strong enough to repel them. We also did the same with the Ottomans, until the disaster on 1526. If the HRE were succesfull at invading us in the middle ages, especially in 907, we would simply not be here today.


Both the Ottomans and the West also helped us several times. But today are different times, and we must look towards the future.

What annoys me the most are the so called Hungarian nationalists that hate Turks, while love Germany, Austria and the West, who probably shed a tear when Otto von Habsburg died too. You see these morons on places like Stormfront, etc.

/rant over

[Dasr]

----------

[Baluarte]

What about all those people that look proudly on the Habsburg times of Hungary? Truth be told, you're the only Hungarian I've met both in normal life and in nationalist forums who has such a severe problem with Austria. Sure, there were good and bad things, but all in all I don't get your aversion to a dinasty that came to power through legitimately through marriage (not war or occupation) and who contributed a lot to the infrastructure and economy of Hungary, all while accepting your language as official.

I don't get it, you're very well aware of the corrupting influence of Jews all over Europe, yet you've developed some passion for Protestantism with is simply Judaized Christianity, accepting usury, accumulation, sedition and antitradition through their implicit condamnations of Monarchism and full-fledged submission to modern democracy, jut for the sake on pissing on Austria (and by extension all Catholic Europe). The Rothschilds and all the great Jewish banking families converted in a heartbeat to Protestantism in the XIX Century.
Do you really not see any problems with it?
Do you really not see a pattern in the materialistic capitalist spirit in all Protestant countries?


I was saying that I am FOR, in favour, accepting, proposing a closer relation with Assad's Syria and Iran. You speak like if I had said the opposite.
Golden Dawn proposes a closer partnership with Russia as a means to counter Atlanticist influence in the Mediterranean, which by extension means a rapprochement with all the pro-Russian Near Eastern countries like Armenia, Syria and Iran.

Working with Russia is the only factual way to really oppose Atlanto-Zionism. Russian cooperation is the only thing that can end Albanian usurpation of Greek and Serb land, it is the only thing that can effectively end the endless fragmentation in the Balkans, it is the only alternative Southeast Europeans countries have to the blasted European Union and the plutocrats in Brussels.

I'm not in any way opposing Hungary, you've seen me defending the right policies of your country at every single moment. The only thing I'm asking you is to stop pandering to the Ottoman dog (who shall keep working for NATO anyway), and to reevaluate if you really need to defend a controversial fairy tale like Turanism, that only gets you more enmity from your neighbours.

That is why I find myself agreeing more with Stears. True, Trianon should probably be reviewed, true, Hungary needs new alliances, but this does not mean you have to fall into a Turanic anti-Catholic rant that really serves noone, not even this forum.

[Stears]

I can't understand your view. France, Balkan states (in most of their history) were supporters/Allies of Ottoman Empire during its European conquest. The Orthodox Balkan countries (+Romania) are both genetically and culturally are less European than the Western Christian Hungarians.


Read about it: http://educator.uw.hu



What about all those people that look proudly on the Habsburg times of Hungary? Truth be told, you're the only Hungarian I've met both in normal life and in nationalist forums who has such a severe problem with Austria. Sure, there were good and bad things, but all in all I don't get your aversion to a dinasty that came to power through legitimately through marriage (not war or occupation) and who contributed a lot to the infrastructure and economy of Hungary, all while accepting your language as official.

I don't get it, you're very well aware of the corrupting influence of Jews all over Europe, yet you've developed some passion for Protestantism with is simply Judaized Christianity, accepting usury, accumulation, sedition and antitradition through their implicit condamnations of Monarchism and full-fledged submission to modern democracy, jut for the sake on pissing on Austria (and by extension all Catholic Europe). The Rothschilds and all the great Jewish banking families converted in a heartbeat to Protestantism in the XIX Century.
Do you really not see any problems with it?
Do you really not see a pattern in the materialistic capitalist spirit in all Protestant countries?


I was saying that I am FOR, in favour, accepting, proposing a closer relation with Assad's Syria and Iran. You speak like if I had said the opposite.
Golden Dawn proposes a closer partnership with Russia as a means to counter Atlanticist influence in the Mediterranean, which by extension means a rapprochement with all the pro-Russian Near Eastern countries like Armenia, Syria and Iran.

Working with Russia is the only factual way to really oppose Atlanto-Zionism. Russian cooperation is the only thing that can end Albanian usurpation of Greek and Serb land, it is the only thing that can effectively end the endless fragmentation in the Balkans, it is the only alternative Southeast Europeans countries have to the blasted European Union and the plutocrats in Brussels.

I'm not in any way opposing Hungary, you've seen me defending the right policies of your country at every single moment. The only thing I'm asking you is to stop pandering to the Ottoman dog (who shall keep working for NATO anyway), and to reevaluate if you really need to defend a controversial fairy tale like Turanism, that only gets you more enmity from your neighbours.

That is why I find myself agreeing more with Stears. True, Trianon should probably be reviewed, true, Hungary needs new alliances, but this does not mean you have to fall into a Turanic anti-Catholic rant that really serves noone, not even this forum.

[Geni]

That allianz bizarroïde .. Hungaria +Iran ... we hear the crazy things the last time ..:confused:

[Baluarte]

@Stears Probably so.

But coming from a Catholic background, and after witnessing the systematic downfall of our moral and cultural structure for decades, I've begun to appreaciate more and more the idea of mending relations with the Eastern Orthodox, who happen to have a value system far more similar to traditional Catholicism than Protestants.
As I've said before, the only real power today that can effectively counter EU/NATO/USA/Zion in Europe is Russia and its natural allies (Greece, Serbia).

I do not deny the huge number of conflicts and grievances you may legitimately have. It's not a little thing honestly.
I genuinely do thing that Hungarian territories that were illegitimately cut through Trianon should find someway to go back to Hungary.

But in the larger scale of things, true Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy will have to deal with their differences and stand together against the tide of Atlanto-Zionism that threatens today to engulf the world and establish a globalist oligarchy, serving Zion and transforming all of us into slaves.

[Stears]

However you forget, that historically Orthodox christians hated more the western world (protestant catholic west) than the muslims.

And don't forget their absloute non-european lifestyle, the large ratio of so-called late shepherd nomadism of Balkan until the early modern era. (except byzantine Greek territories).


@Stears Probably so.

But coming from a Catholic background, and after witnessing the systematic downfall of our moral and cultural structure for decades, I've begun to appreaciate more and more the idea of mending relations with the Eastern Orthodox, who happen to have a value system far more similar to traditional Catholicism than Protestants.
As I've said before, the only real power today that can effectively counter EU/NATO/USA/Zion in Europe is Russia and its natural allies (Greece, Serbia).

I do not deny the huge number of conflicts and grievances you may legitimately have. It's not a little thing honestly.
I genuinely do thing that Hungarian territories that were illegitimately cut through Trianon should find someway to go back to Hungary.

But in the larger scale of things, true Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy will have to deal with their differences and stand together against the tide of Atlanto-Zionism that threatens today to engulf the world and establish a globalist oligarchy, serving Zion and transforming all of us into slaves.

[Baluarte]

However you forget, that historically Orthodox christians hated more the western world (protestant catholic west) than the muslims.

To some extent yes. The Byzantine Empire wasn't like this, although there were real conflicts with the Latins.
But I ask you again, what can we do today? Spite the Orthodox and slowly dissapear, while the West is slowly devoured by corrupt politicians on the payroll of AtlantoZionism, and Afro-Asian ethnic replacement?

I choose to propose an alliance from the otherwise disimilar continent, trying to slowly surpass the great differences and dissent that exists.


And don't forget their absloute non-european lifestyle, the large ratio of so-called late shepherd nomadism of Balkan until the early modern era. (except byzantine Greek territories).

Truth be told Stears, I would have cared about this a few centuries ago, but now that we have English, French, Germans, Italians and Spanish living in big cities, working 10 hours per day in a small cubicle in an office, buying cocaine and African whores, all while consuming Jewish cinema and American television....I choose to not care one bit about that.

[Szegedist]

What about all those people that look proudly on the Habsburg times of Hungary?
The thing we can be the most proud of Habsburg occupation of Hungary are the following :
Rákóczi's War of Independence
Imre Thököly
the other Kuruc uprisings
István Bocskai
Kossuth and 1848 -1849 war.
etc etc
look them up, figure out the pattern.


Truth be told, you're the only Hungarian I've met both in normal life and in nationalist forums who has such a severe problem with Austria.
I have no issues with today's Austrians or Austria.


Sure, there were good and bad things, but all in all I don't get your aversion to a dinasty that came to power through legitimately through marriage (not war or occupation) and who contributed a lot to the infrastructure and economy of Hungary, all while accepting your language as official.
:laugh: The Habsburgs did the opposite, and cripple Hungary's economy. As for language, have you not heard of Germanization in the Austrian empire?



I don't get it, you're very well aware of the corrupting influence of Jews all over Europe, yet you've developed some passion for Protestantism with is simply Judaized Christianity, accepting usury, accumulation, sedition and antitradition through their implicit condamnations of Monarchism and full-fledged submission to modern democracy, jut for the sake on pissing on Austria (and by extension all Catholic Europe). The Rothschilds and all the great Jewish banking families converted in a heartbeat to Protestantism in the XIX Century.
Do you really not see any problems with it?
Do you really not see a pattern in the materialistic capitalist spirit in all Protestant countries?
Protestanism in Hungary is a bit different than the corrupt so called Protestanism in Northern Europe.
Kuruc soldiers have killed Jews. Today you can see Calvinist pastors at Jobbik gatherings, at WW2 commemorations (there was a Calvinist pastor at the remembrance of the Hungarian-German February breakout for example).
Many Hungarian patriots, freedom fighters are Protestants. They were the ones fighting for our freedom, while many of the Catholics were simply sheep.

The Catholic religion was forced upon Hungarians for political reasons, while Protestant religion we adopted because we wanted to, for it to give us strength to fight the invaders that we needed in those days.

However today, with rampant Atheism it does not really matter to me whether you are Catholic or Protestant, but historically it did matter.


I was saying that I am FOR, in favour, accepting, proposing a closer relation with Assad's Syria and Iran. You speak like if I had said the opposite.
My post was not necessarily aimed at you speficially, but at everyone.


Working with Russia is the only factual way to really oppose Atlanto-Zionism. Russian cooperation is the only thing that can end Albanian usurpation of Greek and Serb land, it is the only thing that can effectively end the endless fragmentation in the Balkans, it is the only alternative Southeast Europeans countries have to the blasted European Union and the plutocrats in Brussels.
Working with Russia is part of the solution, not the answer.


I'm not in any way opposing Hungary, you've seen me defending the right policies of your country at every single moment. The only thing I'm asking you is to stop pandering to the Ottoman dog (who shall keep working for NATO anyway), and to reevaluate if you really need to defend a controversial fairy tale like Turanism, that only gets you more enmity from your neighbours.

Would you prefer White Nationalism? :laugh:
I do not care what our neigbours think of us, they can go to hell if they have a problem.

[Géza]

Hungarians, why are you backstabbing the Uralics? Do you really need IE and Turks to tell you that you are just dreaming aout Ghenghis?

Because we want not relationship with you, dear germanized Vejnemöjnen! :D

[Dasr]

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a jew!!!!!!!!!!

[Grenzland]

So you want to be anti Western and anti EU. That's good and ok, but Turkey is pro Western and a good friend to the USA.

[blogen]

So you want to be anti Western and anti EU. That's good and ok, but Turkey is pro Western and a good friend to the USA.

Want? The Hungarian majority does not favour the union already!

What is your opinion from Hungary's EU membership? (2013 summer)
http://www.tarki.hu/hu/news/2013/kitekint/20130829_1.gif
Bad thing: 39%
Good thing: 32%
Not Good, but not bad: 22%
I don't know: 7%

source (http://www.tarki.hu/hu/news/2013/kitekint/20130829_eutagsag.html)