Interesting articles.

[Liffrea]

http://timothystephany.com/nordic.html

[Lyfing]

Hey Liffrea,

I thought they were interesting too.. (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2539) :thumbs up

What all did you find interesting..??

I was thinking about Heimdall today and him as Rig, and thought about this dude's ideas..??

Later,
-Lyfing

[Liffrea]

Heimdall as representative of the moon? It’s an interesting theory, I find the general cosmological thesis that Stephany puts forward to have merit.

Heimdall’s dual role as bringer of order and of messenger for man to the Gods is a fascinating part of Germanic lore. Stephany’s equating of him to the moon (via Gjallahorn) and his links to the Indian drink soma isn’t without merit, soma, and mead, were both “inspirational” tools to allow the human mind to attain higher levels of consciousness, perhaps this gift was brought to man when Heimdall-Rig-Scef taught man knowledge of the runes?

I think Stephany is wrong, though, not to see Heimdall as an agency of fire as well. He equates Loki, rightly enough, with fire, but I think Heimdall has that aspect as well and is just a continuance of the dualism found within Germanic, and IE mythology, in general. I think we could almost equate Heimdall with Prometheus to some extent, fire as both an agent of creation and of destruction, the “gift” dependent entirely on the intent of the user. In a similar vein Odin and Loki represent the conflict between enlightened ego and unrestrained ego, that there is overlap between Odin, Heimdall and Loki is surely more than coincidental.

[Psychonaut]

I think Stephany is wrong, though, not to see Heimdall as an agency of fire as well. He equates Loki, rightly enough, with fire, but I think Heimdall has that aspect as well and is just a continuance of the dualism found within Germanic, and IE mythology, in general. I think we could almost equate Heimdall with Prometheus to some extent, fire as both an agent of creation and of destruction, the “gift” dependent entirely on the intent of the user. In a similar vein Odin and Loki represent the conflict between enlightened ego and unrestrained ego, that there is overlap between Odin, Heimdall and Loki is surely more than coincidental.

I can kind of see the Prometheus connection, but wouldn't you say that Heimdall's parentage (Ægir's nine daughters) pushes him a lot closer to water than fire?

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Psychonaut
I can kind of see the Prometheus connection, but wouldn't you say that Heimdall's parentage (Ægir's nine daughters) pushes him a lot closer to water than fire?

Hmmm I think the connection with the nine daughter’s of Ægir and Ran is tenuous, it relies basically on a reference from Skaldskaparmal that only obliquely fits the criteria for Heimdall’s mothers. There is also the reference in Hyndluljod which describes one:

“born in days of yore, With greatly increased power of the race of gods; nine bore him, a man full of grace, Giant maidens on the edge of the earth.”

“That one was increased by the might of the earth, Of the wave-cold sea and the blood of a sacrificial boar.”

The problem here is that this is assumed to be a reference to Heimdall, I think it could fit, and would perhaps settle the debate over his status as a Vanic deity. “Of the wave-cold sea” doesn’t necessarily mean born there of, it could also mean carried by the sea, as Scef was brought to the Teutonic lands in a boat. The belief in God(s) arriving from the sea to teach man knowledge of civilisation isn’t unique to Germanic lore.

Personally having done some thinking on this very subject I wonder if we can see in Heimdall’s nine mothers something more chthonic? In Celtic lore nine maidens guard the fountain of rebirth in the underworld kingdom of Annwn, the “edge of the earth” may well refer to the boundary with the underworld? I also wonder if we can see some connection, symbolically, with the Eleusinian Mysteries? My thinking here is that the Eleusinian’s believed that in order to be born into the lower/physical plane, a soul descended through nine realms of consciousness, the nine mothers of Heimdall? The man-God born (Scef was a child when he came to the Teutons, although admittedly Rig wasn’t) into the world (the lower plane) in order to teach man. Perhaps Heimdall’s nine mothers really represent nine states of consciousness integrated into one man? Perhaps I’m stretching that a bit, but I find it interesting.

As for the Heimdall as flame connection I’m largely extrapolating (although this has been done long before I’m just agreeing with other’s theories here) from Vedic sources, specifically looking at Agni. Agni was/is embodied in the sacred flame of Vedic/Hindu ceremony, he acts as messenger to the Gods and warden (I think the connection with Heimdall here is obvious). In the Rig Veda poem The Element of Sacrifice we also have this reference to Agni as “first born child of order”, he creates order out of chaos, Heimdall plays a comparable role teaching the early, chaotic, Teutonic man, order. Interestingly as well Agni does have a water connection, as an embodiment of the Sun, Agni draws water up from the earth and returns it to nurture the earth.

Perhaps what we are seeing is either a complex, multifaceted role for deity or, perhaps more likely, the complex development and increased anthropomorphisation of myth?