Maggie Thatcher Dead

[Graham]

:p
Am crying
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTn5vpe-bb9ALuhyc79ANLB1GM39UGi2U0EKHBBa6EdkbGkRB1PaQ

[SkyBurn]

I just read about it on the news about 5 minutes ago!

What a shame :( she was an...interesting lady.

[Graham]

Garlic,holy water & a wooden stake.

[Hurrem sultana]

I just read about it on the news about 5 minutes ago!

What a shame :( she was an...interesting lady.

why is it a shame? she had a long life,death is natural

[billErobreren]

She died again?!...whoa its like Reagan's death all over again...whatever she lived a full life so she can't complain. Tootles ol' gal see you on the other side if there is one

[Graham]

Tootles ol' gal see you on the other side if there is one
Hell?

[SkyBurn]

why is it a shame? she had a long life,death is natural

It may be natural, but that doesn't make it cheery.

[billErobreren]

Probably. I fucked my chances of getting into heaven a long ass time ago

[Hurrem sultana]

It may be natural, but that doesn't make it cheery.

well its tragical and sad when a 30,50,even 60 year old dies,but once you are over 70,it becomes natural.And Thatcher was close to 90,full and healthy happy life

nothing sad :D

[Philo]

LOL. Did'nt know she was still alive anyway. RIP .

[Hurrem sultana]

Is she going to hell or heaven now :/

[Anglojew]

RIP. She was a great leader, the UK hasn't had anyone with her balls since.

[RussiaPrussia]

nothing to cry about she is the reaon why the Uk is unindustrialized now.

[rhiannon]

I can still remember when she started the Falklands War. Damn I feel old on this forum lol. She was a battleaxe who was tough as any dude.

[Dombra]

How will karma strike?

[Graham]

nothing to cry about she is the reaon why the Uk is unindustrialized now.

She was good for London or not. Creating an open doors, Neo-Liberal paradise. Can see why the Americans love her.

[Virtuous]

I thought she was already dead :mmmm:

[Graham]

I thought she was already dead :mmmm:

She's been quiet for a while, with dementia. Lived to a long age.

Don't feel sorry for her, she hated the Scots.

[derLowe]

Love her or hate her but every one has to agree that she has made a great impact on the world.

[Hess]

She was good for London or not. Creating an open doors, Neo-Liberal paradise. Can see why the Americans love her.

Thatcher was a friend of Free Enterprise only in style, not in substance; Economist Murray Rothbard derisively reffered to Thatcherism as "Free-Market rhetoric masking statist content"

She instituted the Poll Tax. She did lower income taxes slightly, but she more than made up for it by large VAT tax increases.

[Sisak]

Currently she is not so important politician.

[sevruk]

yet another Russophobe became less! :thumb001:

[Hess]

yet another Russophobe became less! :thumb001:

She was Anti-Communist, not Anti-Russian.

[Loki]

Goodbye Iron Lady. Now she's just a bowl a dust (or will soon be). No-one lives forever, and Maggie will probably not be remembered as another Ataturk.

[Graham]

Don't get why Thatcher had a movie on her, over-rated..

The tough choices she had were inevitable, due to the IMF bailout of the UK in 1976. Very Greece like, in the situation. Why no Brit should slag off the Greeks.

She stole Scotland's oil( at the time booming) & sold off the industry to balance the books. Her priority was the South & the city of London. At the same time destroyed our promised devolution.

What Scotland hates, is the poll tax & that she used Scotland as a Guinea Pig test. We had it one year early.

What Merkel is to Greeks, is what Thatcher is to us. Except Scotland wasn't producing debts, but taking the hit.


We English, who are a marvellous people, are really very generous to Scotland.’ Thatcher, 1990

http://www.scottisheconomywatch.com/.a/6a015393ec64ea970b016304730291970d-pi

[Loki]

We English, who are a marvellous people, are really very generous to Scotland.’ Thatcher, 1990

LOL!! :P

[baraSYR]

Great lady... RIP

[Graham]

LOL!! :P

Am sure Germanicus, has used that line on me a few times. Haha!

[Graham]

Thatcher described Mandela as a Terrorist, Would have been strange for them to go so close. Mandela is recovering now.

[Loki]

Thatcher described Mandela as a Terrorist, Would have been strange for them to go so close. Mandela is recovering now.

He is very old. Won't be long now ...

[Aunt Hilda]

Is she going to hell or heaven now :/

Hell soul suit her well

[Graham]

He is very old. Won't be long now ...

He'll die this year,2013. I think anyway.

[Graham]

Looks like some have been warned..

Scores gather in Glasgow for 'party' to mark Thatcher's death
http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/220638-council-says-stay-away-from-george-square-party-for-thatcher/

Glasgow City Council has urged anyone planning to celebrate the death of former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher to "stay away" from George Square.

Read more...

[Hurrem sultana]

He'll die this year,2013. I think anyway.

No :(

[Loki]

No :(

He's just human. We all have to die. He's had a long life.

[Loki]

Looks like some have been warned..

Scores gather in Glasgow for 'party' to mark Thatcher's death
http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/220638-council-says-stay-away-from-george-square-party-for-thatcher/

Glasgow City Council has urged anyone planning to celebrate the death of former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher to "stay away" from George Square.

Read more...

lol I foresee troubles and embarrassments :p

http://nfs.stvfiles.com/imagebase/182/623x349/182890-protesters-gather-in-george-square-to-mark-margaret-thatchers-death.jpg

I can agree with "Smash the Tories".

[Aunt Hilda]

Looks like some have been warned..

Scores gather in Glasgow for 'party' to mark Thatcher's death
http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/220638-council-says-stay-away-from-george-square-party-for-thatcher/

Glasgow City Council has urged anyone planning to celebrate the death of former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher to "stay away" from George Square.

Read more...


This is gonna be awesome!

[Aunt Hilda]

Oh happy days, why can't she die more often....

[Hurrem sultana]

Lol am i the only one that find it primitive to celebrate anyones death?(except someone like Hitler of course)...and what is there to celebrate,she left the earth at age 88? what exactly did she have to see more? she probably had a better and interesting life that any of us will

[Aunt Hilda]

Lol am i the only one that find it primitive to celebrate anyones death?(except someone like Hitler of course)...and what is there to celebrate,she left the earth at age 88? what exactly did she have to see more? she probably had a better and interesting life that any of us will

The woman destroyed many peoples lives.
I could not care less about her.

[Loki]

Lol am i the only one that find it primitive to celebrate anyones death?(except someone like Hitler of course)...and what is there to celebrate,she left the earth at age 88? what exactly did she have to see more? she probably had a better and interesting life that any of us will

Did you cry when Milosevic died?

[Hurrem sultana]

Did you cry when Milosevic died?

well he is someone like Hitler

[Philo]

We need Hassan Nasrallah to die. I am sure parties will be arranged and Alcohol will be insterted into stomachs to celebrate his death:p

[Graham]

Milosevic was a murderer. Thatcher isn't on that level. It's neglect on Thatchers fault.

[Aunt Hilda]

Milosevic was a murderer. Thatcher isn't on that level. It's neglect on Thatchers fault.
True, its not like most of us were praying for her death, she's just a bad politician not a dictator

[mr. logan]

Goodbye, Mrs. Tatcher.

[Graham]

My Grandad lost his job at the Balmoral Hotel, he had for decades. When the rail hotels were sold off. Loved that place too.

Though he did go on to run a Cafe & ice Cream place, that went bust & worked on tour buses in Edinburgh. :P

[Hurrem sultana]

Margareth Thatcher was a great supporter of the Bosniaks,she was against the embargo on weapons saying "muslims have a right to defend themselves".Here she talks about Bosnia:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbh5pKexJr4

[Graham]

Wasn't Prime Minister in 1995 & it's easy to give opinions on foreign affairs, as non-pm. Good to know she cared about somewhere.

[Aunt Hilda]

Margareth Thatcher was a great supporter of the Bosniaks,she was against the embargo on weapons saying "muslims have a right to defend themselves".Here she talks about Bosnia:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbh5pKexJr4

You can tell she's picking her words very carefully... A politician till the end.
Although most Americans probably thought, she 'sounds' smart....

[Graham]

Labour & Tony Blair, had stronger opinions on the following Kosovo war.

The Prime Minster in 1995, was also a Conservative, John Major. He supported an arms embargo. Which goes against Thatcher.

[Aunt Hilda]

Labour & Tony Blair, had stronger opinions on the following Kosovo war.

The Prime Minster in 1995, was also a Conservative, John Major. He supported an arms embargo. Which goes against Thatcher.
Thatcher was very critical of the reunification of Germany and the Baltic independence movements. Really not somebody you should glorify as a saviour in continental Europe

[Graham]

Thatcher was very critical of the reunification of Germany and the Baltic independence movements. Really not somebody you should glorify as a saviour in continental Europe
Didn't know this.

[Aunt Hilda]

Didn't know this.

According to her, they first had to 'learn' to be democratic

[Shkembe Chorba]

You can vote here to see the results, im curious

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?75427-How-is-M-Thatcher-view-in-your-country

[Xyresic]

RIP Maggie. You stood for those good old fashion Victorian values, though a lot of people did lose their jobs because of you.

You made good rave music too:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1opP7tNLzg

[Stefan]

I like the rhetoric she espoused, which had quite the ear-candy for any individualist liberal-minded person, from the videos I've seen. Not sure about her actions though, as I'm not well educated on them. Regardless, R.I.P.

[Graham]

I like the rhetoric she espoused, which had quite the ear-candy for any individualist liberal-minded person, from the videos I've seen. Not sure about her actions though, as I'm not well educated on them. Regardless, R.I.P.

She would have made a good Republican, suited to American politics.

[Stefan]

She would have made a good Republican, suited to American politics.

I have heard her referred to as a female Reagan, and today's conservative portion of the Republican party adore Reagan. Also, the Tea Party loves to use her anti-socialist quotes on their Facebook page, today especially, but I've seen it many times before. To be honest, I also assumed she was dead already.

[Vasconcelos]

Am sure Germanicus, has used that line on me a few times. Haha!

Where's the old bugger? I don't recall seeing him around as of late. I always enjoyed reading posts or his chatbox stories.

[Graham]

Where's the old bugger? I don't recall seeing him around as of late. I always enjoyed reading posts or his chatbox stories.
He's called Ironman or something like that now.

[Graham]

Liverpool, Brixton toinght

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHXC6PgCcAAIju8.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHXXp4PCYAAjChO.jpg:large

[Graham]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHXHdGaCMAAeZ2S.jpg:large

[Graham]

Scotlands top Newspaper

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHXaD4OCUAA59_j.jpg

[Vasconcelos]

"rejoice!" lol :|

[Aunt Hilda]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHXHdGaCMAAeZ2S.jpg:large

I'm surprised with the headline of the daily mail

[Graham]

I'm surprised with the headline of the daily mail

Expected it to Say 'SAVED MANKIND'.

[Aunt Hilda]

Expected it to Say 'SAVED MANKIND'.


I was expecting something like this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZsVP2WoE9E



I'm disappointed with the sun.... They used to be creative

[Loki]

I'm surprised with the headline of the daily mail

Typical Tory rubbish. Cameron used the same words.

[Aunt Hilda]

Typical Tory rubbish. Cameron used the same words.

Yeah, they should have gone all out on this one. Think of how many ukip voters they could get back.

[Loki]

Yeah, they should have gone all out on this one. Think of how many ukip voters they could get back.

Why is Scotland so much cooler than Tory England? I think I should move.

[Aunt Hilda]

Why is Scotland so much cooler than Tory England? I think I should move.

Irn bru, it must be.

[Herr Abubu]

I like that she had her own will and didn't care much for popularity and controversy. Her uncompromising ways were awesome too. Her actions and views could have been more consistent, though. And while her economic policies were a step in the right direction, it was still too in between.

Hopefully there will be someone in the future ready to take the final step towards a society which lives in the long run. But that depends on how much people are willing to learn.

[Loki]

I like that she had her own will and didn't care much for popularity and controversy. Her uncompromising ways were awesome too. Her actions and views could have been more consistent, though. And while her economic policies were a step in the right direction, it was still too in between.

Hopefully there will be someone in the future ready to take the final step towards a society which lives in the long run. But that depends on how much people are willing to learn.

Her economic policies were disastrous, entrenching class-division among Britons.

[rashka]

well he is someone like Hitler

No, he wasn't. However Alija Izetbegovic was like Hitler, linked to the SS Handschar Division.

[rashka]

Why don't people like her? It is sad she died. However the day that Tony Blair goes, will be a day of rejoicement.

[Loki]

Why don't people like her?

Margaret Thatcher: a brutal ruling-class warrior is dead (http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art/32952/Margaret+Thatcher%3A+a+brutal+ruling-class+warrior+is+dead)

The official response—including of course that of the establishment media—to Margaret Thatcher’s death will seek to embalm her in “statesmanship”.

Those who remember what Thatcher did to the miners—and to many other working class communities—will prefer her immortalised as the poet Shelley did another Tory politician, Lord Castlereagh, after the Peterloo massacre in 1819: “I met murder on the way— / he had a mask like Castlereagh”.

For murder was Thatcher’s business. Sometimes the murder was metaphorical—of industries and communities. It still destroyed people’s lives.

Sometimes the murder was real. She oversaw the ongoing dirty war in Ireland. Thatcher’s callousness was on display also when she condemned Irish Republican hunger strikers to death rather than concede the recognition as political prisoners for which they were campaigning.

The 907 Argentine and British military personnel killed in the 1982 Falklands war would not have died if Thatcher hadn’t decided to take back an absurd colonial anomaly by force. Her legacy was continued British possession of the Malvinas that still poisons relations with Argentina.

Thatcher gloried in war. When her cabinet finally decided to remove her in November 1990, she pleaded to stay on as prime minister till the forthcoming war against Saddam Hussein’s Iraq was over.

Morally contemptible though Thatcher was, she could probably claim to be the last British political leader of world-historic importance. She came to office in May 1979 at a critical historical juncture.

The world economy was entering its second great recession that decade—evidence that the long boom of the 1950s and 1960s was well and truly over. Underlying the economic crisis was a sharp fall in the rate of profit on the capital compared to the last boom years.

Restoring profitability required forcing up the rate of exploitation for workers. But, particularly in Britain, the ruling class was caught between hammer and anvil. It faced a well organised, combative working class that had built up powerful rank and file workplace organisation during the boom.

Led by the miners and the dockers, the British workers’ movement had put paid to Thatcher’s Tory predecessor, Ted Heath, between 1972 and 1974. The great pay revolt of 1978-9, the “winter of discontent” that destroyed the Social Contract brought in after Heath by Labour, showed the enduring strength of this movement.

Before Thatcher won the 1979 general election, Thatcher had already branded herself as the “Iron Lady”, represented a much harsher and more combative form of ruling-class politics than had become common in the boom years. She disinterred free-market orthodoxies that had been buried with the Great Depression of the 1930s.

More than any other leading capitalist politician Thatcher pioneered what would soon come to be known as neoliberalism. She soon had an immensely powerful ally in the shape of the new right-wing Republican President of the United States, Ronald Reagan.

But Reagan faced a less powerful workers’ movement, and by the time he took office in January 1981 he could benefit from the impact of the brutal recession imposed by Paul Volcker, chairman of the US Federal Reserve Board, in October 1979.

Thatcher and her sycophants liked to praise her courage. In fact, particularly in her early years in Downing Street, she ducked and dived, often avoiding premature confrontations that could provoke too powerful a working-class response.

She enjoyed one huge advantage that she inherited from her predecessors, the Labour prime minister Harold Wilson and, after him, Jim Callaghan. The Social Contract eventually failed, but it succeeded in integrating an increasingly bureaucratised layer of senior shop stewards into collaboration with management and the state.

This meant, for example, the bosses at the British Leyland car giant could move against one of the most powerful of these stewards. Derek Robinson, the convenor at the Longbridge plant in Birmingham, found himself cut off from the shop floor and was successfully victimised.

It also meant that sectionalism often trumped solidarity. This made it easier for Thatcher to isolate the epic miners’ strike of 1984-5.

But she was lucky as well. If Argentine armourers had put the right fuses in their bombs, most of the British battle fleet would have ended up on the floor of the South Atlantic and Thatcher would have had to resign in ignominy.

She was also fortunate in her enemies. This was true of her Labour opponents—first Michael Foot and then Neil Kinnock concealed increasingly right wing politics beneath a hot-air balloon of rhetoric.

Above all, it was true of the trade union leaders who to their eternal shame allowed the men and women of the mining communities fight on alone for a year. Militarised police squads occupied pit villages and Thatcher’s cronies organised a scab union, as despair and privation sapped the miners’ will to fight.

But there were moments when she could have been defeated—above all in July 1984, when an organised scabbing operation provoked a national dockers’ strike, and then again the same autumn, when the pit deputies (supervisors) threatened to walk out. On both occasions, trade union officialdom came to her rescue.

In the aftermath of this victory, Thatcher sought to radicalise her efforts to remodel Britain for the possessive individualism of the market. By the late 1980s she and her chancellor of the exchequer Nigel Lawson had engineered the first of the financial bubble-driven booms of the neoliberal era.

But, in the end, Thatcher overreached herself. Vaingloriously, in 1989-90 she imposed the poll tax, charging everyone from billionaires to paupers the same amount to finance local government.

Out of nowhere came a social explosion—the biggest riot London had seen since the 1930s and a mass movement of 14 million people refusing to pay the tax. Eventually self-preservation forced the Tories to expel from Thatcher from her bunker and to scrap the tax.

This is the most important lesson of Thatcher’s premiership. By chance she has died as an even greater assault on the welfare state than any she mounted is coming into force.

The best form of class revenge on Thatcher would be to build an even bigger social movement to break the coalition government and bury everything she stood for even deeper than her coffin will lie.

[Aunt Hilda]

Why don't people like her? It is sad she died. However the day that Tony Blair goes, will be a day of rejoicement.

She was bad at her job, its that simple

[Loki]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax_riots

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRJW3cOnWVswxKeZHUXCN9qt3HIgwpIl SH3mrYNVZdMeC4WNB7_Lg

http://standpointmag.co.uk/files/u1/poll-tax-demo_w_new.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md1axfl3T11qbrntno1_500.jpg

[rashka]

The 907 Argentine and British military personnel killed in the 1982 Falklands war would not have died if Thatcher hadn’t decided to take back an absurd colonial anomaly by force. Her legacy was continued British possession of the Malvinas that still poisons relations with Argentina.

But she was lucky as well. If Argentine armourers had put the right fuses in their bombs, most of the British battle fleet would have ended up on the floor of the South Atlantic and Thatcher would have had to resign in ignominy.

I think there must be some kind of exaggeration in that list. In one point re the Falkland Islands, I have noticed that most Brits say that it is theirs and it does not belong to Argentina. Now you guys are hating her for it?

[Svipdag]

I shall say only that she was a remarkable woman for whom I had profound respect.


"DE MORTVIS NIL NISI BONVM" - DIOGENES LAERTIVS

[Graham]

Thatcher "There is no such thing as society."

She wasn't a big fan on culture either...

She'd have suited The US big time. Shame...

[Herr Abubu]

Her economic policies were disastrous, entrenching class-division among Britons.

Reform will always hurt a bit, but it's better to take responsibility and take the hit now than to run completely down. Her economic policies were a step in the right direction. Furthermore, they were only bad in the short run, and that was because of previous state involvement, something which she should have gone even harder against. Towards the end of the 80's, the economy was turning for the better. The same thing happened during Reagan in the US. At first, the economy went into a recession, but it turned out very positive. One should judge the whole picture and not just the bits of it.

Class-division in Britain have another origin, it is inherited and has been shaped by Britain's history, and is simply part of British culture. I'm curious, however, precisely what do you mean by class-division among Britons? Class is a very ill-definable concept in itself and very complex. If anything, Thatcher, by getting rid of the Union feudal lords and making the British industries competitive, did good for those industries. Surely many lost because of her, but only at the expense of the greater good.

Oh, and need I even mention that Thatcher was a symbol in herself of how even people from the Middle Class could come up in the system? One thing Britain is often criticized for is that there is little social mobility. Its political leaders are often from the Upper Class, while Thatcher wasn't.

The problem was that there was still too much statism in her.

[Teyrn]

why is it a shame? she had a long life,death is natural

I've seen people on other forums celebrating her death. How horrible and ghoulish to make fun of the dead! :/ Gorbachev, although a communist, was friends with Reagan, the champion of capitalism, and spoke at his funeral.

This is how utterly uncivil our brave new world is. ;/

[arcticwolf]

RIP

[Loki]

Class-division in Britain have another origin, it is inherited and has been shaped by Britain's history, and is simply part of British culture. I'm curious, however, precisely what do you mean by class-division among Britons? Class is a very ill-definable concept in itself and very complex.

Class is very real in Britain - society here is far different from that in Sweden, Netherlands or France. There is a clear pecking order here, and it's unhealthy. Sometimes sickening. Thatcher was "one of those" who would "beat the poor" just because she can. Have you heard her accent? lol :p

[Graham]

Thatcher played a big part in Britain's current financial climate, with her deregulation of the financial markets. Corrupt bankers, love Thatcher.


Also the unaffordability of housing today.


Could be the single reason for Scotland's independence. 'The PM responsible for destroying the UK'


Blame Labour for not changing anything Thatcher had done.

[Graham]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41029000/gif/_41029086_disposable_income416.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41029000/gif/_41029720_gdp.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41029000/gif/_41029092_house_prices416.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41029000/gif/_41029094_inflation416.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41029000/gif/_41029104_unemployment416.gif

[Jackson]

RIP

[Albannach]

The Ladies not for returning. If there is a hell then she's surely in it.

[Pallantides]

She must have been doing something right, since the Scots seem to hate her:p;)

[Loki]

Margaret Thatcher and the taboo of speaking ill of the dead (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22066540)

Margaret Thatcher's death was greeted by a torrent on Twitter and elsewhere. The battles that broke out between those showing loathing and those demanding respect shows the taboo over speaking ill of the dead is still powerful.

Yesterday a flood of tweets greeted the death of Margaret Thatcher.

One of the most curious strands in the early comments was tweeters predicting that there would soon be abusive tweets.

There soon were.

Some - including Respect MP George Galloway and comedian Mark Steel - tweeted references to Elvis Costello's song Tramp the Dirt Down. Released in 1989, the song imagines the prime minister's death and going to her grave where "we'll stand there laughing and tramp the dirt down".

It was seconds from the first tweet revealing the news to the first abusive tweet. Within minutes, news of her death was trending under at least three hashtags, and soon some that hinted at disrespect (#nostatefuneral and #nowthatchersdead).

News and humour website Buzzfeed noticed the outpouring of the vitriol was so widespread people were even making the same joke "ding dong the witch is dead", a reference to the song from The Wizard of Oz.

Others looked forward to parties they said would take place the same evening. Comedian Ross Noble regretted he was in Australia as he did not like to miss a good street party. Some called for milk parties. True to the tweets, last night saw parties in places like Glasgow and Brixton in south London. There were reports of cheers among a minority at a National Union of Students conference.

Then there were lots of people who got angry at the people who were happy at the news. "Show some respect," tweeted one. "Celebrating someone's death is a bit sick," said another. "Today someone's mum died," was a third.

To its critics, the reaction was a microcosm of everything that's wrong with Twitter. Many retweeted and Facebooked a pie chart journalist Martin Belam had circulated in December entitled "What Twitter will look like on the day that Thatcher dies".

It showed an equal split between "people mourning Thatcher's death" and "people gloating about Thatcher's death". The same proportion was "Young people asking 'Who is Thatcher?'", while sections were also reserved for "People who should be mourning her death but who are looking on Twitter for people who are gloating in order to be outraged" and journalists looking on Twitter for both to write stories about them.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/66822000/jpg/_66822117_thatcher.jpg

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/66822000/jpg/_66822429_166067500.jpg

[Philo]

It's a disgrace for the Brits that they would celebrate her death. Show some respect it's not like Osama died.

[Loki]

It's a disgrace for the Brits that they would celebrate her death. Show some respect it's not like Osama died.

Osama never hurt Brits as much as Maggie did :)

[Jackson]

Well whether you liked her or not, respect is important. At least give her a week before you rip into her.

[Philo]

Osama never hurt Brits as much as Maggie did :)

Yeah but she got you Falklands back. What about all the Brits that al-Qaeda killed in 9/11 and in Iraq and Afghanistan?
I think Maggie was a British patriot first and foremost. Don't know enough about her though, obviously.

[Meow]

Most people will remember her for what she did to her own country. So called "creative destruction" to make way for new Industries when the new Industries never arrived and left millions of families totally wasted. She destroyed more than 1/3 of Britain's manufacturing capability because they were not profitable at the time. It's what happens when you put accountancy over Economics, she knew the price of everything but value of nothing. She destroyed more industry than the Luftwaffe could.

[Graham]

Thatcher was not on Scotland’s wavelength
SCOTTISH SUN
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/scottishnews/4879327/Thatcher-was-not-on-Scotlands-wavelength.html
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01706/poll_28_620x413_1706921a.jpg
Published: 10 hrs ago

MARGARET Thatcher “didn’t understand” Scotland and wasn’t on the country’s wavelength, her former Scots Secretary admitted yesterday.

Ian Lang, now Baron Lang of Monkton, was one of the former Prime Minister’s most devoted supporters.
And despite sparking anger north of the border with her controversial policies, he insists the Iron Lady was misunderstood.

He said: “She was accused of turning Scotland into a desert, but she was clearing away the debris of what was already a desert.

“It was a desert on life support, and the life support was taxation pumped in by the Westminster Government. It couldn’t go on.”

But Lord Lang added: “Scotland is a different place. I don’t think what she said and the manner in which she said it came across in Scotland. She didn’t understand the extent to which Scotland was in thrall to socialism and the dependency culture.”

Critics and supports admit Mrs Thatcher’s controversial years in power devastated Scotland and unintentionally paved the way for the battle over independence.

Then she swept into power in 1979, the Tories controlled 22 of Scotland’s 77 constituencies — their best result in 15 years.

But a decade of doom followed, with industrial decline, the miners’ strike and the Poll Tax.

Just seven years after she left office in 1990, the Tories faced electoral wipeout in Scotland and not a single MP remained. And anger at her policies and a sense of alienation from Westminster fuelled the clamour for Scottish devolution and helped the rise of the SNP.

Ironically, devolution was the last thing Mrs Thatcher had wanted when she became PM — fearing more powers for Scotland could ultimately lead to the break up of the UK.

But, by her stubbornness to push through the radical and painful changes of the 1980s, she united Scots against her.
Even Malcolm Rifkind, who served as her Scots Secretary and went on to become Defence Secretary, admitted there were times when he “could have cheerfully strangled her”.

He added: “The objectives in 1979 were modest — to deal with inflation, try to bring some order to the trade union situation and give a kick-start to the economy through the private sector. I don’t think any of us realised that when you start that process, if you have got the guts, you can start a whole new economy.”

Former Scottish Trades Union Congress chief Campbell Christie saw Mrs Thatcher as a much harsher figure.
He said: “She was opinionated, unwilling to listen to other points of view other than those that fitted in with herself.”

In the first two years of Mrs Thatcher’s rule, Scotland lost a staggering FIFTH of its workforce.

She had demanded savage cuts in public expenditure to tackle runaway inflation. That meant dumping loss-making nationalised industries, privatisation, and a head-on clash with trade unions.

Coal mining was a notorious casualty of Thatcherism — and Scotland would be badly hit. The 80s included the disastrous confrontations of the miners’ strike in 1984, and saw Scotland’s 15 deep pits cut to two in a decade.
Meanwhile, the steel industry was suffering the death of a thousand cuts.

The Gartcosh mill closed in 1986 and although Ravenscraig survived Mrs Thatcher’s reign, it shut down less than three years after she left office.

Shipbuilding also faced disaster. Competition from Asia increased and the supply of central government cash helping ailing yards dried up under Mrs Thatcher.

The process of industrial decline caused devastation across swathes of Scotland, in some places leaving a generation without work.

And there was more controversy to come with the Poll Tax disaster.

Scots were furious at being used as guinea pigs for the hated flat-rate charge in 1989 and for thousands north of the border, that will be her legacy.

But her wider impact here was huge. And 23 years after she left office, the Tories, with their sole Scottish MP David Mundell, have still not recovered.

[Meow]

Yeah but she got you Falklands back. What about all the Brits that al-Qaeda killed in 9/11 and in Iraq and Afghanistan?
I think Maggie was a British patriot first and foremost. Don't know enough about her though, obviously.

Chavez went through much more abuse (from the Media) than her even though arguably far less people on his country celebrated his death than here which tells at least something about her real legacy. But for me its all about her legacy, which is quite relevant to all the problems we have today

Her death has opened a debate about her legacy and "thatcherism", in my opinion a very right wing Milton Friedman fundamentalist inspired accountancy over actual economics. If it wasn't for the Falklands war, she would easily become the least popular prime minister in history beating even Eden. Personally i think she was a wicked individual who was so extreme that it made her own party puke (and conservatism in the 70s and 80s were certainly no softies) and they regularly fell out with her.

[Aunt Hilda]

I think Maggie was a British patriot first and foremost. Don't know enough about her though, obviously.

Posh England, not Britain.


P.s. did you guys see the doc BBC made?

[Jackson]

Posh England, not Britain.


P.s. did you guys see the doc BBC made?

Was watching it earlier, will finish it later. It seemed good, showed both sides of the argument from what i can make out.

[Graham]

Looking at America & the poll tax. It gets a mention in their Constitution. Now I understand the American love for Thatcher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Poll tax
--------------
A capital tax levied equally on every adult in the community.

Although no longer a significant source of revenue for any major country, the poll tax did provide large sums for many governments until well into the 1800s.

The tax has long been attacked as being an unfair burden upon those less able to pay.

In the United States, the poll tax has been connected with voting rights. Poll taxes enacted in Southern states between 1889 and 1910 had the effect of disenfranchising many blacks as well as poor whites, because payment of the tax was a prerequisite for voting.

By the 1940s some of these taxes had been abolished, and in 1964 the 24th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution disallowed the poll tax as a prerequisite for voting in federal elections.

In 1966 this prohibition was extended to all elections by the U.S. Supreme Court, which ruled that such a tax violated the "equal protection" clause of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution.

In 1990, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher of Great Britain introduced a poll tax with exemptions for people with low incomes or disabilities. The measure was extremely unpopular and played a role in her replacement as prime minister later that year.

[Stefan]

I like much of what she says in this video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoIZdEBf9Wk

[Loki]

You would, Stefan. :p

[Stefan]

You would, Stefan. :p

Still I think her poll tax was a huge mistake, from what I've read. I believe in flat rates, neither head taxes nor progressive taxes.

[Meow]

We have to admit, she won, her extreme political ideology is now the orthodoxy around the world infact. Neoliberal capitalism despite how many times it fails horribly its never questioned and entrenches itself even further. Like Marx said: "All that is Solid melts in the air, all that is sacred will be profaned"

[Stefan]

We have to admit, she won, her extreme political ideology is now the orthodoxy around the world infact. Neoliberal capitalism despite how many times it fails horribly its never questioned and entrenches itself even further. Like Marx said: "All that is Solid melts in the air, all that is sacred will be profaned"

While it is the most accepted economic theory, I wouldn't say Keynesians are too far behind in numbers. And as far as observations go, we all live in a corporatist system, not a liberal one(only in the ways that help corporations.)

[Graham]

Adam Smith Capitalism can work. It depends on the people & the culture. It never suited us in the North.

[Stefan]

The nice thing about free-market (separation of state and economy) capitalism is that local socialist or mixed systems can be implement (as long as they're voluntary and not forced by a state or community.) If we are to assume that a socialist or mixed market can compete with a capitalist one then this would be no problem. Of course this is assuming they are both equally successful systems, which is very unlikely.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGv50uYUHJw

[antonio]

I am not a liberal but still admire Mrs Thatcher. Many reddish trash as the ones celebrating today could learn many things and virtues for such a brilliant lady.

[Aunt Hilda]

Was watching it earlier, will finish it later. It seemed good, showed both sides of the argument from what i can make out.

Yeah, it was fairly balanced. Definitely worth a glimpse.

[Loki]

Margaret Thatcher death celebrated in Brixton and Glasgow (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22076706)

There have been small celebrations in some parts of the UK following Baroness Thatcher's death on Monday.

In Brixton and Glasgow revellers gathered for impromptu street parties after the news was announced, with some daubing anti-Thatcher graffiti on buildings.

[Aunt Hilda]

Margaret Thatcher death celebrated in Brixton and Glasgow (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22076706)

There have been small celebrations in some parts of the UK following Baroness Thatcher's death on Monday.

In Brixton and Glasgow revellers gathered for impromptu street parties after the news was announced, with some daubing anti-Thatcher graffiti on buildings.

http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article8565350.ece/ALTERNATES/w620/Thatcher-Socialist-Worker.jpg

I guess they took that literally.....

[Smaug]

Why some Brits dislike Tatcher so much? Could anyone enlighten the mind of this little boy of British stock who wants to know more about what happened in his ancestral lovely island?

[Pallantides]

Margaret Thatcher death celebrated in Brixton and Glasgow (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22076706)

There have been small celebrations in some parts of the UK following Baroness Thatcher's death on Monday.

In Brixton and Glasgow revellers gathered for impromptu street parties after the news was announced, with some daubing anti-Thatcher graffiti on buildings.

Am I the only one who finds this slightly distasteful?


I have no strong feelings for or against the deceased, but this seem quite low.

[arcticwolf]

Am I the only one who finds this slightly distasteful?


I have no strong feelings for or against the deceased, but this seem quite low.

No you're not, this is quite disguisting.

[Aunt Hilda]

No you're not, this is quite disguisting.
...
...
...
Naaaaah.....

[Graham]

Why some Brits dislike Tatcher so much? Could anyone enlighten the mind of this little boy of British stock who wants to know more about what happened in his ancestral lovely island?
To put into the simplest term.

She exasperated class division in the UK, to an already class based society & wasn't shy about it. Didn't like society or community & preferred individualism. Hated localism & increased Centralisation. Purposely neglected many parts of the country.

Dislike her, but the street celebrations are too far. Like in Belfast, Glasgow & Liverpool.

[Aunt Hilda]

To put into the simplest term.

She exasperated class division in the UK, to an already class based society & wasn't shy about it. Didn't like society or community & preferred individualism. Hated localism & increased Centralisation. Purposely neglected many parts of the country.

Dislike her, but the street celebrations are too far. Like in Belfast, Glasgow & Liverpool.

There's one in belfast? It's nice to see them agreeing on something :p

[Wadaad]

Always felt she was some sort of witch...never understood all the praise she gets over in America

[Baluarte]

Jewish community pays tribute to Margaret Thatcher

By Jennifer Lipman, April 8, 2013
Follow Jennifer on Twitter

Tributes have been pouring in from Anglo-Jewry in memory of the late British Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher.
Baroness Thatcher, who died on Monday at the age of 87, was described as "a giant who had a transformative impact on Britain" by chief rabbi Lord Sacks.

He added: "I first got to know her early on in my life when she was the local MP. She was loved and admired by many in the Jewish community who will miss her deeply. Few people in my lifetime have left such a personal imprint on British life."

"She was always extremely supportive and admiring of the ethos of the British Jewish community," said Vivian Wineman, president of the Board of Deputies. "This close relationship began when her family took in a young Austrian Jewish refugee from Nazism in the late 1930s. When she entered Parliament as MP for Finchley, a very Jewish constituency, her relationship with local Jewish institutions blossomed and continued throughout her illustrious career as Prime Minister.

"She counted a number of Jews among her closest advisers and confidants, and at one point nearly a quarter of her Cabinet were of Jewish origins. She also greatly admired the late Chief Rabbi Dr Immanuel Jakobovits whom she elevated to the House of Lords. She was unquestionably a great statesman of the later 20th Century, and one who was a friend to the Jewish people and Israel."

"Margaret Thatcher was always a strong supporter of Israel and the Jewish community. Her staunch defence of freedom and liberty perhaps explains her genuine admiration of Israel as the only democracy in an autocratic region; something that she felt should be fought for and protected," said Stuart Polak, director of Conservative Friends of Israel.

"Britain has lost a great leader but her legacy will never be forgotten."
Lord Sugar, a Labour peer, posted on Twitter that Baroness Thatcher was "a great lady".

He added: "She changed the face of British politics, created opportunity for anyone to succeed in the UK. RIP."
Conservative MP Robert Halfon described her as one of our greatest leaders. "Truly great people come along once a generation," he said. "Her influence on the Conservative Party as a whole is almost unparalleled."

Party chairman and fellow Jewish MP Grant Shapps added: "Margaret was an incredible woman, with the bravery to lead where others could only follow."
Daniel Peltz, chairman of Technion UK, spoke of the Prime Minister's strong links with the Israeli institution, including that she was awarded an honorary degree in 1998.

"She was an inspirational leader, whose passion for science and technology, and the friendship she extended to the State of Israel will not be forgotten."
The Israeli ambassador to the UK, Daniel Taub, sent a letter to Baroness Thatcher's children to express his deep condolences. He said: "For her strong support for Israel, for the way in which she epitomised the values of freedom and democracy that our two countries hold so dear, and in memory of her remarkable life, we mourn with you and the British people on this solemn day."

From Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu offered his condolences. "She was a woman of principle, of determination, of conviction, of strength, a woman of greatness," he said. "She was a staunch friend of Israel and the Jewish people. She inspired a generation of political leaders.

"I send my most sincere condolences to her family and to the government and people of Great Britain."
President Shimon Peres added: There are people, there are ideas. Occasionally those two come together to create vision.

"Baroness Thatcher was an exceptional leader, a colleague in the international arena and a friend for me personally. She served as an inspiration for other leaders, as the first female Prime Minister of Great Britain she broke new ground. She showed how far a person can go with strength of character, determination and a clear vision."
Send tributes or memories to jenniferlipman@thejc.com

[Graham]

There's one in belfast? It's nice to see them agreeing on something :p

Mainly the Catholics in Belfast, Derry. The hunger strikes, The IRA bombing on the Conservative party in England. Some bitterness.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Hunger_Strike.JPG/800px-Hunger_Strike.JPGhttp://nationalpostnews.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/brighton.jpg?w=620&h=600

[Jackson]

Can't wait till George Galloway dies, that'll be a right jolly time. :thumb001:

[Loki]

Margaret Thatcher 'racist' - Australian minister Bob Carr (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22087702)

Australia's Foreign Minister Bob Carr has described comments made by Baroness Thatcher as "unabashedly racist".

In a conversation with her "in her retirement", Mr Carr said the former UK prime minister had warned Australia against Asian immigration.

She said "if we allowed too much of it we'd see the natives of the land, the European settlers, overtaken by migrants", he said.

Lady Thatcher, 87, died on Monday after suffering a series of strokes.

Mr Carr made his comments on the Australian broadcaster ABC's Lateline programme.

He said he had been "astonished" at the comments by Lady Thatcher, which were made while his Malaysian-born wife Helena was "standing not far away" but was "fortunately out of earshot".

But he said he retained respect for the "boldness of her political leadership".

[Jackson]

I don't see how that is racist, it's not like they were causing a concern because they are Asian.:picard2:

[Hess]

Being that Scots and Socialists are the two groups that seem to have the most antipathy towards her, I suppose she must be the Scottish Socialist's worst nightmare.

[Graham]

Can't wait till George Galloway dies, that'll be a right jolly time. :thumb001:

Another cunt. Galloway annoys me more.

[Loki]

I don't mind Galloway, he's funny :D

[Albion]

nothing to cry about she is the reaon why the Uk is unindustrialized now.

People keep saying this, but I'm not seeing it. We're still 7th in the world by industrial output. Britain de-industrialized in that a lot of under performing, propped-up industry was allowed to fail. Britain was the China of the 19th century, mass producing everything so naturally it seems bad. But industry still exists and Britain still exports a lot, it isn't up there with China and Germany but still a respectable figure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industry#List_of_countries_by_industrial_output

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/8379/captureeuu.png

People need to stop repeating worn-out rhetoric and actually look at the situation Britain faced.

[Graham]

I don't mind Galloway, he's funny :D

Bet he didn't block you from his Twitter though. Fanny! That's what he is! Never forgiving, for what he done to me.

[Graham]

Being that Scots and Socialists are the two groups that seem to have the most antipathy towards her, I suppose she must be the Scottish Socialist's worst nightmare.

Scottish Catholic Socialist.

[Loki]

Bet he didn't block you from his Twitter though. Fanny! That's what he is! Never forgiving, for what he done to me.

LOL he blocked you? :P

[Graham]

LOL he blocked you? :P

Yes. I compared him to the Orange Lodge.

[Jackson]

Another cunt. Galloway annoys me more.

Yes Galloway is one of those people to whom i'd happily celebrate the death of before it actually occurred.

[Albion]

Thatcher described Mandela as a Terrorist, Would have been strange for them to go so close. Mandela is recovering now.

The man that single-handedly ruined South Africa, a great country built by the Dutch and British and given for free to Bantu. :picard1: They hadn't even reached the Cape at the time and most Bantu in South Africa were driven there by Shaka's army and were not native to the lands in which they came to reside.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/KingShaka.jpg/250px-KingShaka.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Alphonse_de_Neuville_-_The_defence_of_Rorke%27s_Drift_1879_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg


Why is Scotland so much cooler than Tory England? I think I should move.

Champagne socialists are not cool, they should be an embarrassment to any nation.

[Jackson]

Champagne socialists are not cool, they should be an embarrassment to any nation.

:thumb001:

And they are also incredibly annoying and cringe-worthy.

[Loki]

Champagne socialists are not cool, they should be an embarrassment to any nation.

The Scottish ones seem okay :) (from a Scottish perspective)

If there are people whose deaths I won't mourn, it would be George Osborne, David Cameron, Iain Duncan Smith etc ... class thugs of a horrible regime.

[Philo]

Can't wait till George Galloway dies, that'll be a right jolly time. :thumb001:

You can say that again!


Yes. I compared him to the Orange Lodge.

That's such a low move by him.

[Jackson]

You can say that again!

Can't wait till George Galloway dies, that'll be a right jolly time. :thumb001:

[Hurrem sultana]

The man that single-handedly ruined South Africa, a great country built by the Dutch and British and given for free to Bantu. They hadn't even reached the Cape at the time and most Bantu in South Africa were driven there by Shaka's army and were not native to the lands in which they came to reside.
No one asked them to come and build a country in their fatherland

[Graham]

:thumb001:

And they are also incredibly annoying and cringe-worthy.

The only left wing party I like are the Green Party. I used to like the Liberal Democrats. Nick Clegg has killed the party. True champagne socialist.

My knowledge on Mandela is limited, so don't give much thought to it. You have the saying "one mans terrorist, is another's freedom fighter". Saying is true to many areas.

[Loki]

The only left wing party I like are the Green Party. I used to like the Liberal Democrats. Nick Clegg has killed the party. True champagne socialist. SNP have moved into the Central politics.


SNP is probably better than the other big offerings, not?

[Hurrem sultana]

My knowledge on Mandela is limited, so don't give much thought to it. You have the saying "one mans terrorist, is another's freedom fighter". Saying is true to many areas.


Just in his case not possible to see him as terrorist,unless you think some humans are less worth

[Jackson]

The only left wing party I like are the Green Party. I used to like the Liberal Democrats. Nick Clegg has killed the party. True champagne socialist.

My knowledge on Mandela is limited, so don't give much thought to it. You have the saying "one mans terrorist, is another's freedom fighter". Saying is true to many areas.

Yes i haven't really looked much into the Green Party, they seem alright and good natured, but i wouldn't vote for them all in all.

Yes he executed his own party pretty much, what a fool. Still i guess politics isn't easy.

If i'd been born 100 years ago i'd have probably been likely to vote for a liberal party but as it stands now i think we are a bit too liberal, and it's served it's purpose so we can move on back to proper conservatism. :)

[Hess]

I don't mind Galloway, he's funny :D

Funny is one word for him.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQA2X4yvK_g

[Jackson]

Actually you could call the conservatives we have now 'Champagne Conservatives', thinking about it. :P

[Graham]

SNP is probably better than the other big offerings, not?

They're doing ok. a populist party. Some bad decisions, like the dealings with Donald Trump, & the policing on football fans.

Prefer them to what's down south. We're still cutting our budget at the same rate as England, due to the Barnett Formula. Doing it differently.

[Albion]

The Scottish ones seem okay :) (from a Scottish perspective)

If there are people whose deaths I won't mourn, it would be George Osborne, David Cameron, Iain Duncan Smith etc ... class thugs of a horrible regime.

The sight of the left celebrating Thatcher's death is disgusting. They're your typical champagne socialists - largely whinging university students that weren't even born at the time and are from middle class backgrounds harping on about the poor working classes and socialism whilst doing nothing for them. They support the working class (apparently), but when the working class expresses an opinion or does something they don't like they'll label them as chav scum or some other offensive terms. Such is your typical champagne socialist hypocrite.
They'll live comfortable lives in high paying jobs once they graduate and do nothing for the "downtrodden" as they said they were doing whilst at university. In essence such people are full of shit, and Edinburgh is full of them. They're the left's self-styled intelligentsia, all words and no action - their actions are purely a teenage revolt against the establishment.
Migla here, I highly suspect is one of them.

Britain's (and the West's) universities are full of them and half the commenters in the Guardian are the same type of people. Their sport is attacking the right wing and any part of society that isn't permissive. They're anti-person, pro-people because they're weak as individuals that can't function alone and seek to make themselves heard. Whilst half of the British population is politically conservative or centre-right, these are typically descent people and as such don't go around shouting and making a load of noise as the champagne socialists. But the latter will be heard - from protests, to vile media and disgusting antics such as celebrating a death, they're essentially attention seekers that need to grow up and shut up.

People's social beliefs change over time, most people becoming more right wing as they mature and get experience of the real world (versus living at uni on loans and being around kids that have never done a day's work in their life). This is why voting age should be raised to 25 - because people need experience in life before they can be trusted to vote. Scots planning to lower it to 16 - wtf does an average 16 year old know about anything? :picard1: Essentially, most people under 25 are too immature to be trusted to make an informed political decision based on reality (rather than what the Guardian or some other BS outlet tells them).

[Graham]

^^^
Chav:tongue

[Albion]

Actually you could call the conservatives we have now 'Champagne Conservatives', thinking about it. :P

Because they've absorbed a lot of Labour and Lib Dem ideology over the years.

[Jackson]

The sight of the left celebrating Thatcher's death is disgusting. They're your typical champagne socialists - largely whinging university students that weren't even born at the time and are from middle class backgrounds harping on about the poor working classes and socialism whilst doing nothing for them. They support the working class (apparently), but when the working class expresses an opinion or does something they don't like they'll label them as chav scum or some other offensive terms. Such is your typical champagne socialist hypocrite.
They'll live comfortable lives in high paying jobs once they graduate and do nothing for the "downtrodden" as they said they were doing whilst at university. In essence such people are full of shit, and Edinburgh is full of them. They're the left's self-styled intelligentsia, all words and no action - their actions are purely a teenage revolt against the establishment.
Migla here, I highly suspect is one of them.

Britain's (and the West's) universities are full of them and half the commenters in the Guardian are the same type of people. Their sport is attacking the right wing and any part of society that isn't permissive. They're anti-person, pro-people because they're weak as individuals that can't function alone and seek to make themselves heard. Whilst half of the British population is politically conservative or centre-right, these are typically descent people and as such don't go around shouting and making a load of noise as the champagne socialists. But the latter will be heard - from protests, to vile media and disgusting antics such as celebrating a death, they're essentially attention seekers that need to grow up and shut up.

People's social beliefs change over time, most people becoming more right wing as they mature and get experience of the real world (versus living at uni on loans and being around kids that have never done a day's work in their life). This is why voting age should be raised to 25 - because people need experience in life before they can be trusted to vote. Scots planning to lower it to 16 - wtf does an average 16 year old know about anything? :picard1: Essentially, most people under 25 are too immature to be trusted to make an informed political decision based on reality (rather than what the Guardian or some other BS outlet tells them).

100% Correct in my view.

[Albion]

No one asked them to come and build a country in their fatherland

Unless you're blind, I just wrote how the black Africans didn't even inhabit the Cape at the time of Dutch settlement. Europeans got to the Cape before Black Africans. :picard1:
The indigenous inhabitants were some hunter gatherers numbering a few thousand - Khoisan peoples. They're still found there, but the majority of the population - the Black Africans are not native to the area.

What we see as Black / Sub-Saharan Africans today are quite a recent concept. Originally Southern Africa was largely populated by people akin to the Khoisan peoples who are essentially a different race. The modern Black Africans began expanding from the West African rainforests during the Bantu expansion. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_expansion) They reached South Africa at a similar time to the Europeans, they reached the Cape (the western half of SA) latter than Europeans which is essentially why pure black Africans are a minority there (the majority being mixed race).
Black Africans do not have a claim to the Cape, the Afrikaaners (Dutch et al) descendants do.

Please learn some basic history on the subject before commenting. :rolleyes2:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/South_Africa_racial_map%2C_1979.gif

[kabeiros]

This is why voting age should be raised to 25 - because people need experience in life before they can be trusted to vote. Essentially, most people under 25 are too immature to be trusted to make an informed political decision based on reality (rather than what the Guardian or some other BS outlet tells them). rep+

[Graham]

Thatcher is my Hero..Working class hero.

[Loki]

What is Thatcherism? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22079683)

Margaret Thatcher's policies as prime minister changed many aspects of British life, and were collectively called Thatcherism. But what does the term mean?

A handful of political leaders are influential enough to have an ism after their name. But no political philosophy has shaped a nation in quite the same way as Thatcherism.

At its most crude, Thatcherism represents a belief in free markets and a small state. Rather than planning and regulating business and people's lives, government's job is to get out of the way.

It should be restricted to the bare essentials: defence of the realm and the currency. Everything else should be left to individuals, to exercise their own choices and take responsibility for their own lives.

This was a revolutionary, even dangerous, notion to most postwar politicians.

[Xyresic]

I think its sad that people are celebrating her death.

Tony Blair just the other day said something along the lines of making tough and divisive decisions is part of political life.

Its funny how people from Scotland, North England, Wales and Northern Ireland hated her. These places are also full of unemployed layabouts. The combined property value in the 10 most affluent boroughs in London are worth more than the entire combined property value of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

My dad once said to me that I should be grateful that he cared about his family and worked 'like a a animal' to provide for his family. Otherwise we have been living in some Council Estate just like the Glaswegian population or the Black population of Tottenham does. My dad could have spent all his money on himself, going to Pubs, Nightclubs, Casinos and Prostitutes and "living life". Funny how he came to England in the early 1980s and by 1991 worked hard enough and saved enough money to buy a house on Mortgage in London - a decent part of London as well - Maggie was the MP for my area.

Meanwhile up north is full of junkies who still blame Maggie and in some cases come from families where they haven't worked for the past 3 generations since the end of the second world war.

Maggie had a degree in Chemistry from Oxford, she was the first female Prime Minister in the UK and had to make tough decisions. Whereas layabouts up North can barely be bothered to get their thumbs out of their asses to go to the job centre and act like they've been looking for work for the past week or fortnight.

[Loki]

Funny how he came to England in the early 1980s and by 1991 worked hard enough and saved enough money to buy a house on Mortgage in London - a decent part of London as well

I don't think it would be done easily today ... it was still "good times" then.

[Graham]

Meanwhile up north is full of junkies who still blame Maggie and in some cases come from families where they haven't worked for the past 3 generations since the end of the second world war.

Scotland has lower unemployment than England currently. 7.4%...

[Smaug]

To put into the simplest term.

She exasperated class division in the UK, to an already class based society & wasn't shy about it. Didn't like society or community & preferred individualism. Hated localism & increased Centralisation. Purposely neglected many parts of the country.

Dislike her, but the street celebrations are too far. Like in Belfast, Glasgow & Liverpool.

Weird, here in the New World she is seen as a good leader, probably due to the Falklands War and all the neighbours that dislike Argetina.

[Loki]

Weird, here in the New World she is seen as a good leader, probably due to the Falklands War and all the neighbours that dislike Argetina.

Yes, from a purely foreign-affairs perspective. But foreign people are less aware of her 'crimes' on the home front.

[xajapa]

Garlic,holy water & a wooden stake.
From what I know the UK was in much better condition when she was in office. Would you agree?

[Smaug]

Yes, from a purely foreign-affairs perspective. But foreign people are less aware of her 'crimes' on the home front.

Exactly, that's why I didn't understand all the hatred Brits had for her.

[Loki]

Exactly, that's why I didn't understand all the hatred Brits had for her.

Perhaps there are some street parties in Buenos Aires as well.

Too bad Chavez didn't live to see this day.

[xajapa]

Yes, from a purely foreign-affairs perspective. But foreign people are less aware of her 'crimes' on the home front.
What crimes?

[Loki]

What crimes?

By effectively throwing people into poverty, deepening the class divide, causing riots and disunity etc.

[Smaug]

Perhaps there are some street parties in Buenos Aires as well.

Too bad Chavez didn't live to see this day.

Many Brazilians are certainly very sad about her death :P

[xajapa]

By effectively throwing people into poverty, deepening the class divide, causing riots and disunity etc.
Sounds like words spoken from a liberal perspective. I am no expert on the affairs of the UK, but the same arguments were made here about Reagan. She has been out of office for 23 years. Have things improved for the average Briton during that time? Is there more unity and less divide today? Has Britain been free from riots since her departure? I am curious if those who live in the UK see these times as their glory days, as compared to 25-30 years ago.

[Loki]

Sounds like words spoken from a liberal perspective. I am no expert on the affairs of the UK, but the same arguments were made here about Reagan. She has been out of office for 23 years. Have things improved for the average Briton during that time? Is there more unity and less divide today? Has Britain been free from riots since her departure? I am curious if those who live in the UK see these times as their glory days, as compared to 25-30 years ago.

We've had successive bad governments. And the current one, the Conservatives under David Cameron, seems extremely Thatcherist. It's a shame.

[Graham]

From what I know the UK was in much better condition when she was in office. Would you agree?

Depends where you lived. Scotland wasn't even producing debt in the eighties. But hit with depression like Austerity.

Anyhow I'm done with the subject, so wont be saying anything else on Thatcher from now on.

If you want to ask questions, come over here and ask the locals

[Mans not hot]

Good riddance.

[xajapa]

We've had successive bad governments. And the current one, the Conservatives under David Cameron, seems extremely Thatcherist. It's a shame.
So one cannot necessarily blame thatcher for the UK's woes. Here is another thread on TA that I just read
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?75576-Romania-Poland-And-Slovakia-Richer-Than-Some-Parts-Of-The-UK
Think about this: the entire former eastern block of the iron curtain was just being freed from Soviet influence around the same time that Thatcher left office. Some of these nations have made tremendous progress since then. There is no logical or fair way that somebody can say that the vestiges of Thatcher's policies are impacting the UK today. If she and her policies diminished the UK (which is debatable) there has been ample time for the left in the UK to right the ship. In reality, I would argue that the affairs of the UK are worse today. There may not be as much official poverty, but that is only because the UK has become a full blown welfare state where poverty is masked by throwing some crumbs at the poor to keep them from rioting. I would argue the standard of living today is worse than 25-30 years ago. Again, I would like to read what those within the UK believe.

[Hess]

The sight of the left celebrating Thatcher's death is disgusting. They're your typical champagne socialists - largely whinging university students that weren't even born at the time and are from middle class backgrounds harping on about the poor working classes and socialism whilst doing nothing for them. They support the working class (apparently), but when the working class expresses an opinion or does something they don't like they'll label them as chav scum or some other offensive terms. Such is your typical champagne socialist hypocrite.
They'll live comfortable lives in high paying jobs once they graduate and do nothing for the "downtrodden" as they said they were doing whilst at university. In essence such people are full of shit, and Edinburgh is full of them. They're the left's self-styled intelligentsia, all words and no action - their actions are purely a teenage revolt against the establishment.
Migla here, I highly suspect is one of them.

They would have us believe that Socialism is the working man's ideology, and yet almost every Socialist of this generation is an upper-middle class college student; part of the bourgeoisie, in other words.

But it shouldn't be too surprising; after all, Marx himself never held a real job in his life.

[Albion]

But it shouldn't be too surprising; after all, Marx himself never held a real job in his life.

Yes, the lazy bastard loved to talk a lot about the bourgeoisie and plight of the working man whilst drinking and sitting on his arse. I don't understand how anyone could take him seriously.

[Loki]

Yes, the lazy bastard loved to talk a lot about the bourgeoisie and plight of the working man whilst drinking and sitting on his arse. I don't understand how anyone could take him seriously.

Marx had great ideas and was/is still incredibly influential in political thought.

[xajapa]

Yes, the lazy bastard loved to talk a lot about the bourgeoisie and plight of the working man whilst drinking and sitting on his arse. I don't understand how anyone could take him seriously.
Reminds me of university professors and bureaucrats: all full of themselves on theories that have never been tried in the real world because they have no practical application. All they while the lament the plight of the little man while they sit around the neighborhood pub drinking expensive pints and food, then get into their BMWs and drive home to their gated communities, so they can get ready to go with their spouse to the symphony for the evening where they will rub elbows with others of their ilk. Their hands are as soft as a baby's bottom and their they bear no scars, having lived a pampered, privileged life. Personally, I have no need for their ideas and certainly no need for their guilt-ridden pity.

[Albion]

Marx had great ideas and was/is still incredibly influential in political thought.

Influential, yes. But he had little real experience of the world to base his ideas on, he was always an observer and never actually a worker. This alone means he lacks some credibility, although some of his ideas aren't bad.

[Stefan]

Marx has done more harm than good, to be honest. He should've ended with his observations, in my opinion, because almost every single one of his conclusions has been false. For example, according to Marx the U.S should've been the first country to have its socialist revolution, yet oddly enough the U.S retained capitalism and then corporatism while denouncing socialism more than any other first world country. In order to fulfill Marx's predictions, countless nations had killed their own and hindered progress. Today we don't suffer much of his false economic and class predictions, but the application of his model to other fields, in the form of critical theory are debilitating to a multitude of nations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory

Either pragmatism has eluded these educators, or they have some ulterior intentions (inhibition of class mobility under the facade of class equality.)

[Loki]

http://i46.tinypic.com/kcjqiw.jpg

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/_xlH7inzPtzThD9wM5eIPA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Y2g9MzUwMztjcj0xO2N3PTU1MzI7ZHg9MD tkeT0wO2ZpPXVsY3JvcDtoPTM5OTtxPTg1O3c9NjMw/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/news/2013-04-09/4d081603-3793-4492-850b-d14e56f39bb3_thatcher-parties2-090413.jpg

[Albion]

http://i46.tinypic.com/kcjqiw.jpg

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/_xlH7inzPtzThD9wM5eIPA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Y2g9MzUwMztjcj0xO2N3PTU1MzI7ZHg9MD tkeT0wO2ZpPXVsY3JvcDtoPTM5OTtxPTg1O3c9NjMw/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/news/2013-04-09/4d081603-3793-4492-850b-d14e56f39bb3_thatcher-parties2-090413.jpg

See what I mean? Kids.

[Pretan]

http://i46.tinypic.com/kcjqiw.jpg

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/_xlH7inzPtzThD9wM5eIPA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Y2g9MzUwMztjcj0xO2N3PTU1MzI7ZHg9MD tkeT0wO2ZpPXVsY3JvcDtoPTM5OTtxPTg1O3c9NjMw/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/news/2013-04-09/4d081603-3793-4492-850b-d14e56f39bb3_thatcher-parties2-090413.jpg

^ Says more about the partiers than Thatcher.

Notice how most are to young to have even experienced her premiership.

Degenerates.

[Aunt Hilda]

^ Says more about the partiers than Thatcher.

Notice how most are to young to have even experienced her premiership.

most of them were too busy shitting themselves to notice her premiership.

[alfieb]

^ Says more about the partiers than Thatcher.

Notice how most are to young to have even experienced her premiership.

Degenerates.

Well said.

[Albion]

not really making you look any better......

Most people will be thinking the same thing. Stop taking the moral high ground, his statement is justified. They might be your sort of people, but you don't have to keep defending the indefensible.

[Aunt Hilda]

Most people will be thinking the same thing. Stop taking the moral high ground, his statement is justified. They might be your sort of people, but you don't have to keep defending the indefensible.

how am I defending them? I think actually celebrating her death is disgraceful.
I might dislike her but I didn't wish death on her, I never would.

[arcticwolf]

...
...
...
Naaaaah.....

I see you possess ethical flexibilty, ain't that special? :laugh:

[Aunt Hilda]

I see you possess ethical flexibilty, ain't that special? :laugh:

the 'naaaaah' was sarcastic

I said this at the start of the thread



Milosevic was a murderer. Thatcher isn't on that level. It's neglect on Thatchers fault.
True, its not like most of us were praying for her death, she's just a bad politician not a dictator

[arcticwolf]

the 'naaaaah' was sarcastic

I said this at the start of the thread

Do you really think that playing mind games with a Buddhist is a good idea? :P

[Aunt Hilda]

Do you really think that playing mind games with a Buddhist is a good idea? :P

the best...



oh and death to the milk snatcher?





is it working?

[arcticwolf]

the best...



oh and death to the milk snatcher?





is it working?

You know it is! lol

[Stefan]

I was reading a wikipedia article on Freeman Dyson and found this quote, lol.


My view of the prevalence of doom-and-gloom in Cambridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Cambridge) is that it is a result of the English class system. In England there were always two sharply opposed middle classes, the academic middle class and the commercial middle class. In the nineteenth century, the academic middle class won the battle for power and status. As a child of the academic middle class, I learned to look on the commercial middle class with loathing and contempt. Then came the triumph of Margaret Thatcher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Thatcher), which was also the revenge of the commercial middle class. The academics lost their power and prestige and the business people took over. The academics never forgave Thatcher and have been gloomy ever since.

[xajapa]

I was reading a wikipedia article on Freeman Dyson and found this quote, lol.
The same mentality is now permeating the US. To re-phrase the quote: there are two classes of people: producers and non-producers. The non-producers greatly resent the producers for their accomplishments. The non-producers desire things for themselves, but can't earn them, so they feign as if they really don't desire any of these products. But their envy is real. They create new theories and indoctrinate the young into their beliefs, including fools who actually come from the producer class. It sounds so easy: why work? Let's just take from theise who have; they stole from us anyway to get. Then non-producers get themselves into places of power and authority. The non-producers talk a good game about how these products are bad, and those who want them are selfish. They then confiscate the products through taxes, regulations and laws, all with the stated purpose of giving these confiscated items to the have-nots. A funny thing happens along the way, however. These items never get to the have-nots (think Cuba, USSR, North Korea, etc.), or only a few crumbs get through. Surprisingly, those in power seem to live quite well.

[Albion]

Do you really think that playing mind games with a Buddhist is a good idea? :P

You're not a mind reader, heathen. ;)

[Pallantides]

Sex Pistol Johnny Rotten attacks hate mobs celebrating Baroness Thatcher's death as 'loathsome' and calls for respect

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2307183/Margaret-Thatcher-dead-Sex-Pistol-Johnny-Rotten-says-hate-mobs-loathsome--calls-respect.html?ICO=most_read_module


He added: 'Her politics were really dreadful and derisive and caused a great many issues for me when I was young, for all of us trying to go through that.
'But that don't mean I am gonna dance on her grave, as they say. I'm not that kind of person.
'I was her enemy in her life but I will not be her enemy in her death. I am not a coward.'
He added: 'My entire life, socially, was all around the Maggie era.
'That was the great challenge as a Sex Pistol was how to deal with Margaret Thatcher.
'I think we did rather good.'
He also denied she was having a Diana-style funeral.
'She's not. It's a Conservative send off. Do you think they'll be parading me through the streets of London?
'I'm more likely to be dragged along from the back of a wagon.'

[Jackson]

Sex Pistol Johnny Rotten attacks hate mobs celebrating Baroness Thatcher's death as 'loathsome' and calls for respect

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2307183/Margaret-Thatcher-dead-Sex-Pistol-Johnny-Rotten-says-hate-mobs-loathsome--calls-respect.html?ICO=most_read_module

He's right, it is a cowardly and disrespectful act. Of course done by cowardly and disrespectful people.

[Loki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMFjFoq6T9M

[Grumpy Cat]

As much as I didn't like Thatcher, celebrating her death is distasteful.

[Jackson]

As much as I didn't like Thatcher, celebrating her death is distasteful.

Honour and respect is thin on the ground in the UK.

[Grumpy Cat]

Honour and respect is thin on the ground in the UK.

Not just the UK. Did you hear about what happened in my hometown that has made international news and even Anonymous have gotten involved?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2013/04/11/ns-rehtaeh-anonymous-hackers.html

My family knows the family.

[Jackson]

Not just the UK. Did you hear about what happened in my hometown that has made international news and even Anonymous have gotten involved?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2013/04/11/ns-rehtaeh-anonymous-hackers.html

My family knows the family.

Disgusting. We need more discipline. Things have never been perfect of course, always been troublemakers, but there's a difference between kids causing a bit of trouble and what they do now. Discipline, discipline, discipline.

[Grumpy Cat]

Yeah. I'm admittedly a French Canadian nationalist so it comes as no surprise I'd not like Thatcher, and even as far as view her as an enemy. But an honourable person respect their enemy and shows compassion in death.

[rashka]

I was surprised when I heard about the anti-Thatcher song.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/04/13/297979/bbc-top-40-censors-antithatcher-song/

The BBC has come under fire for a decision not to air a song, which has hit top of the charts after the death of former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, in its weekly music countdown show.


http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20130413/rasouli_amir20130413063358913.jpg

The song, “Ding Dong! The witch is dead” from the 1939 movie The Wizard of Oz, is now contending to gain the top slot in Britain’s weekly list of the top 40 best-selling singles that are usually played in full on a BBC Radio 1 chart show on Sunday.

However, the BBC has announced it will only air a 5-second clip of the 51 second song in the form of a news broadcast, with the BBC director Tony Hall saying the “tasteless” and inappropriate song may offend Thatcher’s supporters while banning it may lead to public outrage.

Thatcher’s death on Monday led to a hail of “Thatcher death parties” on the streets of different cities across Britain including Glasgow, London, Belfast and Manchester.

The protesters also took to the internet to voice their pleasure at the 87-year-old ex-PM’s death, with the word “witch” becoming a rally point for her opponents both on the web and on the streets.

[Loki]

Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead enters chart at two (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-22145306)

Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead has failed to reach the number one spot in the music charts.

The Wizard of Oz song, which has been at the centre of an online campaign by opponents of Baroness Thatcher, reached number two after selling 52,605 copies.

However it was still more than 5,700 copies behind Duke Dumont and A*M*E with Need U (100%) which remained at the top for a second week.

Rival campaign song I'm In Love With Margaret Thatcher entered at 35.

[Lusos]

Thatcher was a friend of Free Enterprise only in style, not in substance; Economist Murray Rothbard derisively reffered to Thatcherism as "Free-Market rhetoric masking statist content"

She instituted the Poll Tax. She did lower income taxes slightly, but she more than made up for it by large VAT tax increases.


Don't forget the effing Council Tax

[Graham]

Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead enters chart at two (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-22145306)

Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead has failed to reach the number one spot in the music charts.

The Wizard of Oz song, which has been at the centre of an online campaign by opponents of Baroness Thatcher, reached number two after selling 52,605 copies.

However it was still more than 5,700 copies behind Duke Dumont and A*M*E with Need U (100%) which remained at the top for a second week.

Rival campaign song I'm In Love With Margaret Thatcher entered at 35.

It was number one, in Scotland this week..Wouldn't waste my time, with the song. lol
http://www.officialcharts.com/scottish-singles-chart/

[Loki]

It was number one, in Scotland this week..Wouldn't waste my time, with the song. lol
http://www.officialcharts.com/scottish-singles-chart/

To be expected :)

[Graham]

To be expected :)

A've decided not to be so bad, offline also..

Was only a toddler when she was about.. My parents still managed to get a small council home, for us then, when I was born 1987.. Both lived in poor conditions before..

My mum hates her. I'll leave her to do the hating, not me. Not my generation.