Are Croats the big losers?

[Loki]

It seems in terms of population spread, they lost the most territory. Here is the map in 1918:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wSDcsvrWce8/UCwc2aOVt5I/AAAAAAAADLc/N2hFPuHcI1A/s640/Croats+or+Hrvati+1850..gif

[Arbërori]

There was a map that I saw once, appareantly northern and central Serbs are actually Orthodox Croats, while the southern ones are Serbianized Bulgarians, Vlachs and Albanians. It is quite probable actually.

I think Archduke sent me such a map once. :P

[Szegedist]

Compared to who?

[Loki]

There was a map that I saw once, appareantly northern and central Serbs are actually Orthodox Croats, while the southern ones are Serbianized Bulgarians, Vlachs and Albanians. It is quite probable actually.

I think Archduke sent me such a map once. :P

Makes sense!! Let's hear what Lena says :)

[Arbërori]

Makes sense!! Let's hear what Lena says :)

She's a Slavicized Hungarian actually. :P :lol:

[Szegedist]

It seems in terms of population spread, they lost the most territory. Here is the map in 1918:


Not really, Croatia is bigger now than before WW1. They gained Dalmatia and Istria.

[Loki]

Not really, Croatia is bigger now than before WW1. They gained Dalmatia and Istria.

And loses Bosnia it seems. In Bosnia the main competitors for power are Bosnian Serbs and Bosniaks.

[Szegedist]

And loses Bosnia it seems. In Bosnia the main competitors for power are Bosnian Serbs and Bosniaks.

Depends what you mean by loses Bosnia. Croatia did control the territory of Bosnia in the past, but centuries leading up to WW1, Croatia did not have Bosnia. They gained it during WW2 in the form of NDH, but then lost it.

A better way of phrasing it would be "Croatia has yet to gain Bosnia, or parts of it", rather than losing it.


The biggest loser in terms of population spread, land, resources, was some other country ;)

[Lena]

Makes sense!! Let's hear what Lena says :)

Oh, how clever, but not good enough :wink

[Sultan Suleiman]

I don't see how Croats lost anything. They got a practically homogeneous nation by expeling half a million Serbs without "loosing face in the world", yeah they have secured the homogeneity of their country at the cost of losing Croat footholds in Bosnia.

[Diërker]

And loses Bosnia it seems. In Bosnia the main competitors for power are Bosnian Serbs and Bosniaks.

First. Bosnia and Herzegovina will NEVER and I repeat NEVER be Serbian or Croatian dominantly. These Serbs and Croats on TA are showing false propaganda, and how Herzegovina and or/Bosnia is predominantly Serb or Croat. But in Reality, there stupid. Bosnia and Herzegovina is a BOSNIAK land.

[Bosnjakinja]

I don't see how Croats lost anything. They got a practically homogeneous nation by expeling half a million Serbs without "loosing face in the world", yeah they have secured the homogeneity of their country at the cost of losing Croat footholds in Bosnia.

Correct. I don't think Croats feel as loosers at all. Except maybe the BH Croats who were sacrificed by Tudjman.

[Insuperable]

First. Bosnia and Herzegovina will NEVER and I repeat NEVER be Serbian or Croatian dominantly. These Serbs and Croats on TA are showing false propaganda, and how Herzegovina and or/Bosnia is predominantly Serb or Croat. But in Reality, there stupid. Bosnia and Herzegovina is a BOSNIAK land.

Is not Herzegovina pred. Croat and Serb land already? Just asking BTW
Bosniaks are significant only in Eastern Mostar as far as I know.

[Duke]

First. Bosnia and Herzegovina will NEVER and I repeat NEVER be Serbian or Croatian dominantly. These Serbs and Croats on TA are showing false propaganda, and how Herzegovina and or/Bosnia is predominantly Serb or Croat. But in Reality, there stupid. Bosnia and Herzegovina is a BOSNIAK land.

Bosniaks are moslty centered around few bigger cities, most of the land is not Bosniak.

BiH is allread showing as failed experiment, we dont even need to do anything, it will fall apart by itself

[Bosnjakinja]

we dont even need to do anything, it will fall apart by itself

Problem is that Croats don't exactly have time on their hands in Bosnia. When Croatia enters EU many BH Croats will move and their numbers will drop even more then it already has.

Time will show what will happen with Bosnia but time is not something that works for the Croats there.

[Insuperable]

Herzegovina is a shit country anyway, Bosniaks can have it

[Duke]

Problem is that Croats don't exactly have time on their hands in Bosnia. When Croatia enters EU many BH Croats will move and their numbers will drop even more then it already has.

Time will show what will happen with Bosnia but time is not something that works for the Croats there.

LOL, dodnt you hear from our Premier who is visitnig right now, BiH Croats will always have Croatian Citizenship

[Bosnjakinja]

Herzegovina is a shit country anyway, Bosniaks can have it

Why do you think that?

[Loki]

Well, I think Bosnia deserves a port. Why isn't Split given to Bosnia?

[Insuperable]

Why do you think that?

Why would not I think that?

[Bosnjakinja]

LOL, dodnt you hear from our Premier who is visitnig right now, BiH Croats will always have Croatian Citizenship

Yes, and they will always prefer to live in Croatia and not in BiH. Which is bad for them tbh.

[Insuperable]

Well, I think Bosnia deserves a port. Why isn't Split given to Bosnia?

Now, Loki, this is trolling :)

[Sultan Suleiman]

Correct. I don't think Croats feel as loosers at all. Except maybe the BH Croats who were sacrificed by Tudjman.

The saddest part is that Tudzman actually thought that Herzegovina had more Croats than Posavina. Bosnian Croats are screwed, but that is on their own heads. No one forced them to leave all the industrialized urban areas in exchange for some Herzegovinian outbacks.

[Bosnjakinja]

Why would not I think that?

Because the Croat parts of Herzegovina are some of the most wealthiest parts of the country.

[Duke]

Well, I think Bosnia deserves a port. Why isn't Split given to Bosnia?

Ask the guy in your avatar, because of him BiH looks like this.

It was a project for creating a jugoslav nation

[Insuperable]

Because the Croat parts of Herzegovina are some of the most wealthiest parts of the country.

Country is shit, I know, I live there. If it is the wealthiest part than whole B&H should be relocated to Africa with their unter people

[Bosnjakinja]

The saddest part is that Tudzman actually thought that Herzegovina had more Croats than Posavina. Bosnian Croats are screwed, but that is on their own heads. No one forced them to leave all the industrialized urban areas in exchange for some Herzegovinian outbacks.
True, they can complain about majorization by Bosniaks but nobody can explain why they leave pure Croat areas like Zepce and areas that were just some years ago majority Croat like Vitez. No Bosniaks to force them out there, it's just because their future in Croatia looks brighter.

Btw, Herzegovina is nice.

[Sultan Suleiman]

LOL, dodnt you hear from our Premier who is visitnig right now, BiH Croats will always have Croatian Citizenship
And that would only speed up the Croatian exodus from Bosnia when Croatia enters EU. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw TENS of thousands of Mudlim and Orthodox Croats popping out of nowhere to get on free EU pass.

[Bosnjakinja]

Country is shit, I know, I live there. If it is the wealthiest part than whole B&H should be relocated to Africa with their unter people

Mmmm..then I think you havent been to other parts of the Balkans...

[Duke]

Country is shit, I know, I live there. If it is the wealthiest part than whole B&H should be relocated to Africa with their unter people

you cant have prosperus country in witch everyone hates everybody, and undermines and move towards progress

[Insuperable]

We can see the mentality and perhaps one of man reasons of wars
right in this thread. If people move from a certain area, take it, its yours now mentality.

[Duke]

And that would only speed up the Croatian exodus from Bosnia when Croatia enters EU. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw TENS of thousands of Mudlim and Orthodox Croats popping out of nowhere to get on free EU pass.

Nah, i see BiH croats get upper hand in buisnies department even more.

Your logic just confirms Bosniak low IQ.


I win

[Insuperable]

Mmmm..then I think you havent been to other parts of the Balkans...

Dear God

[Sultan Suleiman]

Country is shit, I know, I live there. If it is the wealthiest part than whole B&H should be relocated to Africa with their unter people

Herzegovina isn't richer, but the Croats there have more wits than their kin in Croatia.

[Bosnjakinja]

We can see the mentality and perhaps one of man reasons of wars
right in this thread. If people move from a certain area, take it, its yours now mentality.

The mentality is more like: if you want a piece of land, you live there, dont move to somewhere richer and then talk all day how you love some other country/area.

This is not directed at you because you live here, but many Croats have this mentality.

You want Bosnia and Herzegovina? Ok, I have nothing against it, but make the land your home at least.

[Bosnjakinja]

Dear God

It's true, you talk about Bosnia and Herzegovina as if it was Uganda, but have you ever been to Serbia, Macedonia, Albania, Kosovo? Maybe BiH is poor in comparison to Croatia but it is on par or better then the rest of the Balkans.

[Arbërori]

Don't you dare say that, Croatia is central Europe afterall. :P

[Sultan Suleiman]

Nah, i see BiH croats get upper hand in buisnies department even more.

Your logic just confirms Bosniak low IQ.


I win

What I said here is what most of the top Croat analysts agree on as the number one threat for Croats in Bosnia. But if you think that your IQ overshadows the collective experiance of the best Croatian political analysts your nation has to offer I don't see how does that affect me.

[Insuperable]

Herzegovina isn't richer, but the Croats there have more wits than their kin in Croatia.

Haahahhaha, a joke of the day. People in Herzegovina (and more or less in the entire Bosnia and Herzegovina) are backwards people where a vast majority of people still loves from agriculture. If bu wits you mean how to steal from people in every freaking chance they got they sure have more wits.


The mentality is more like: if you want a piece of land, you live there, dont move to somewhere richer and then talk all day how you love some other country/area.

This is not directed at you because you live here, but many Croats have this mentality.

You want Bosnia and Herzegovina? Ok, I have nothing against it, but make the land your home at least.

Yeah, I can agree with you.
Truth be told I do not want it. I despise that country and it is a shame for any country to be associated with it.

[Duke]

What I said here is what most of the top Croat analysts agree on as the number one threat for Croats in Bosnia. But if you think that your IQ overshadows the collective experiance of the best Croatian political analysts your nation has to offer I don't see how does that affect me.

OK :)

[Bosnjakinja]

Haahahhaha, a joke of the day. People in Herzegovina (and more or less in the entire Bosnia and Herzegovina) are backwards people where a vast majority of people still loves from agriculture. If bu wits you mean how to steal from people in every freaking chance they got they sure have more wits.



Yeah, I can agree with you.
Truth be told I do not want it. I despise that country and it is a shame for any country to be associated with it.

If you even dislike your fellow Herzegovinian Croats so much I can understand better why you hate Bosniaks so intensely :lol:

Do you plan to move to Croatia? Mozes i na pm da odgovoris ako neces javno.

[Loki]

I despise that country and it is a shame for any country to be associated with it.

Why?

[American_Hispanist]

I think the biggest losers were the Hungarians and the Bulgarians in the general area. The Serbs might also qualify. The Hrvats actually gained a lot.

[Sisak]

Haahahhaha, a joke of the day. People in Herzegovina (and more or less in the entire Bosnia and Herzegovina) are backwards people where a vast majority of people still loves from agriculture. If bu wits you mean how to steal from people in every freaking chance they got they sure have more wits.



Yeah, I can agree with you.
Truth be told I do not want it. I despise that country and it is a shame for any country to be associated with it.

Solin, you like only talk negative stuffs about Croats. Are you Croat or Serb?

[Duke]

I think the biggest losers were the Hungarians and the Bulgarians in the general area. The Serbs might also qualify. The Hrvats actually gained a lot.

LOL

[Szegedist]

LOL

Lol?

[American_Hispanist]

LOL

well, you Hrvats now have a country where almost No Serbs or non-Croatians live in, and you guys have control of the Dalmatian coast. I would say, Croatians gained some.

[Sultan Suleiman]

OK :)

I am glad that I know someone online of your collosal intelect, who knew that all those opinons of Croats with their fancy "PHDs" or watchimacallits don't know shit.

[Duke]

Lol?

you lost colonies, we lost our land

[Sisak]

I think the biggest losers were the Hungarians and the Bulgarians in the general area. The Serbs might also qualify. The Hrvats actually gained a lot.

Explain, wha you think this?

[Duke]

I am glad that I know someone online of your collosal intelect, who knew that all those opinons of Croats with their fancy "PHDs" or watchimacallits don't know shit.

do you believe everything you read?

[Szegedist]

you lost colonies, we lost our land

No, we lost our land.

[American_Hispanist]

Explain, wha you think this?

Hungarians and Bulgarians lost land, and possible ways to become stronger (ask szengiest on that, he can explain more the Hungarian problem). Croatians retained their overall land given during the Yugoslav period, and Croatia is more homogenous than before the war, thanks to kicking out Serbs from Krajina during Operations Storm and Flash.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Explain, wha you think this?


do you believe everything you read?

I do believe decades long analysis by qualified individuals of an even longer trend which is depopulating regions of my country and putting massive strains on the state budget. The budget I fill with my hard earned Marks!

[Duke]

Hungarians and Bulgarians lost land, and possible ways to become stronger (ask szengiest on that, he can explain more the Hungarian problem). Croatians retained their overall land given during the Yugoslav period, and Croatia is more homogenous than before the war, thanks to kicking out Serbs from Krajina during Operations Storm and Flash.

we didnt kick them out, they left, not all mind you, lots of them stayed.

Operation Storm, and Flash was about kicking out Serbian military force.

[Duke]

I do believe decades long analysis by qualified individuals of an even longer trend which is depopulating regions of my country and putting massive strains on the state budget.

da ne pijete kahvu po cjele dane imali bi budžeta.

Nije da nemate budžeta radi toga, jer depopulacija regija koje nisu imale privredu kao prvo nemože negativno utjecat na gospodarstvo, već nemate budžeta zato šta vas je MZ prestala sponzorirat.

I da Hrvati i Muslimani su opstali samo na mjestima koje je HVO drža, za depopulaciju Hrvata su odgovrni JNA, i ABiH

[Sultan Suleiman]

we didnt kick them out, they left, not all mind you, lots of them stayed.

Operation Storm, and Flash was about kicking out Serbian military force.

Then burning down their homes and Croatizing their former habitats to the point that some return to their old homes is practically imposible. Just look at the massive protests about reintroducing cyrilic writting.

[American_Hispanist]

we didnt kick them out, they left, not all mind you, lots of them stayed.

Operation Storm, and Flash was about kicking out Serbian military force.

The Cro-Serb population in Croatia is smaller than during the pre-war era.


According to the 2011 census there were 186,633 ethnic Serbs living in Croatia, 4.4% of the total population. Their number was reduced by more than two thirds in the aftermath of the 1991–95 War in Croatia as the 1991 pre-war census had reported 581,663 Serbs living in Croatia, 12.2% of the total population.

[Szegedist]

Hungarians and Bulgarians lost land, and possible ways to become stronger (ask szengiest on that, he can explain more the Hungarian problem). Croatians retained their overall land given during the Yugoslav period, and Croatia is more homogenous than before the war, thanks to kicking out Serbs from Krajina during Operations Storm and Flash.

- 72% of its territory (232 000 km2)
- 64% of its population (13 370 000 inhabitants)
- 60% of its agricultural lands
- 70% of its livestock
- 74% of its roads
- 62% of its railways
- 65% of its navigable waterways
- 88% of its forests
- 60% of its coal reserves
- 85% of its iron ore
- 100% of its salt and copper mines
- 95% of its quarries
- 82% of its machine industry
- 60% of its iron and steel factories
- 64% of its chemical works
- 95% of its water-power
- its only outlet to the sea, the port-city of Fiume (Rijeka), along with all its fleet, and all trade and industry connected with maritime activities
- State property amounting to 3.5 billion Hungarian Gold Crowns (1920)
- 210 million Gold Francs (1920) as well as other imposed crippling war reparations in kind
- losses estimated at 6.5 billion Swiss Francs (1919) due to the Rumanian occupation alone
- over 3000 villages, towns and cities with majority Hungarian populations and irreplaceable historical buildings, monuments, cultural artifacts, art collections, churches, museums, libraries, and educational and cultural institutions.
- 45% of Locomotives
-The victorious powers intentionally drew the new borders to cut off the strategic railway lines from the rest of the country;
-The borders were set in such a way that all natural defense lines were crossed making the remaining territory totally vulnerable and difficult to defend.



Now lets see these huge Croat losses :rolleyes:

[Duke]

Then burning down their homes and Croatizing their former habitats to the point that some return to their old homes is practically imposible. Just look at the massive protests about reintroducing cyrilic writting.



Cyrilic writing in a town that Serbs razed to the ground, seems logical.


What Croatizing?

[Sisak]

Hungarians and Bulgarians lost land, and possible ways to become stronger (ask szengiest on that, he can explain more the Hungarian problem). Croatians retained their overall land given during the Yugoslav period, and Croatia is more homogenous than before the war, thanks to kicking out Serbs from Krajina during Operations Storm and Flash.

You are patetic. Wha you call self Abdulah?

[Permafrost]

Cyrilic writing in a town that Serbs razed to the ground, seems logical.

Well, sentimental arguments aside, it would make sense to introduce cyrilic writing if the town does indeed have a substantial cyrilic-reading population. Istra today has only a few ethnic Italians left, yet when I drive to Pulj all the street signs are bilingual, even in areas devoid of the particular minority in question.

I'm not taking sides here, but it is a matter of consistency.

[American_Hispanist]

You are patetic. Wha you call self Abdulah?

how is it pathetic to talk about a group of people who were were in de-facto terms, expelled from their homes. I would say the same for Croatians that lived in Serbia, I'm not sucking up to the Serbs. I'm simply saying what happened, not what I think happened. and besides, Loki started this thread to talk about if Croatians were losers on the territorial exchanges of the 20th century in the Balkans and I said no, and you know that as well.

[o__o]

You are patetic. Wha you call self Abdulah?

No one knows what it's like
To be the bad man
To be the sad man
Behind blue eyes
And no one knows
What it's like to be hated
To be faded to telling only lies

[Sisak]

how is it pathetic to talk about a group of people who were were in de-facto terms, expelled from their homes. I would say the same for Croatians that lived in Serbia, I'm not sucking up to the Serbs. I'm simply saying what happened, not what I think happened. and besides, Loki started this thread to talk about if Croatians were losers on the territorial exchanges of the 20th century in the Balkans and I said no, and you know that as well.

In Yugoslavia exist practice replacement house. Croatian Serbs had moved to Serbia, the Croats from Serbia to Croatia.

[Duke]

how is it pathetic to talk about a group of people who were were in de-facto terms, expelled from their homes. I would say the same for Croatians that lived in Serbia, I'm not sucking up to the Serbs. I'm simply saying what happened, not what I think happened. and besides, Loki started this thread to talk about if Croatians were losers on the territorial exchanges of the 20th century in the Balkans and I said no, and you know that as well.


you are not saying what happen, the ones who left, left on their free will.

Thing is before those 2 operations they did the same thing to majority of population that was Croatian, with the help of Yugoslavian army that was in Serb hands.
Most of them left because of fear of reprisal, because those poor "good neighbors" had direct or indirect conection with such actions, like as burning down properties, stealing items from houses, burning churches, zank parades on the street calling for croat blood, shoting rifles..etc

[Sultan Suleiman]

da ne pijete kahvu po cjele dane imali bi budžeta.

Nije da nemate budžeta radi toga, jer depopulacija regija koje nisu imale privredu kao prvo nemože negativno utjecat na gospodarstvo, već nemate budžeta zato šta vas je MZ prestala sponzorirat

Drzavni Telekomi i Elektroprivred popunjavaju dosta budzetskih rupa. Dok depopulacija neznaci samo nsstanak ljudi sa odredenog prostora, za potpuno nestajanje populacije trebaju desetljeca, samo mladi napustaju, mladi Koji bi trebali puniti budzetaku kasu,a ne bjezati bezobzirno. Oni koji ostaju onda snose citav teret I obacezu za starce supaka Koji su odleprsali za zelenije pasnjake.

[Duke]

Drzavni Telekomi i Elektroprivred popunjavaju dosta budzetskih rupa. Dok depopulacija neznaci samo nsstanak ljudi sa odredenog prostora, za potpuno nestajanje populacije trebaju desetljeca, samo mladi napustaju, mladi Koji bi trebali puniti budzetaku kasu,a ne bjezati bezobzirno. Oni koji ostaju onda snose citav teret I obacezu za starce supaka Koji su odleprsali za zelenije pasnjake.


Zašto bi ljudi stajali u državi koja ih smatra neprijateljima, a njihovo kao svoje?

Svako ko je pametan odlazi, baš zato šta je pametan

[Archduke]

Hungarians and Bulgarians lost land

I have to agree with Mexican Abdullah here.

Map with Bulgaria's borders in black and the territories which were populated with Bulgarian in red

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1007/bulgarianexarchate.jpg

[American_Hispanist]

you are not saying what happen, the ones who left, left on their free will.

Thing is before those 2 operations they did the same thing to majority of population that was Croatian, with the help of Yugoslavian army that was in Serb hands.
Most of them left because of fear of reprisal, because those poor "good neighbors" had direct or indirect conection with such actions, like as burning down properties, stealing items from houses, burning churches...etc

yes, they left of their free-will, that's true, but they knew that if they stayed, they would get retribution from the Hravts because of the actions they did to Hrvats (shelling Croatian majority towns, kicking out Croatian civilians from villages, etc). for every action, there is a reaction.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L5Qm-qRjqg

[Duke]

yes, they left of their free-will, that's true, but they knew that if they stayed, they would get retribution from the Hravts because of the actions they did to Hrvats (shelling Croatian majority towns, kicking out Croatian civilians from villages, etc). for every action, there is a reaction.

The ones who didnt left, did so because they had nothing to fear.
There was no retribution to those

[Insuperable]

Why?

I have already said why more or less, but Id rather send PM


Solin, you like only talk negative stuffs about Croats. Are you Croat or Serb?

I am a realist Croat and I speak negatively only about Croats from Bosnia and Herzegovina (including all residents of BiH).
A lot of Croats near border where I live despise Croats from BiH. I was called names in school for example and such things can continue way after school and child mentality.Are they Serbs too?


well, you Hrvats now have a country where almost No Serbs or non-Croatians live in, and you guys have control of the Dalmatian coast. I would say, Croatians gained some.


Hungarians and Bulgarians lost land, and possible ways to become stronger (ask szengiest on that, he can explain more the Hungarian problem). Croatians retained their overall land given during the Yugoslav period, and Croatia is more homogenous than before the war, thanks to kicking out Serbs from Krajina during Operations Storm and Flash.

There are 5% of Serbs in Croatia. There are 90% of Croats in Croatia. There is 90% of Germans in Germany... 84% of Serbs in Serbia. Why should Croatia have less than 90%? You do realize that three times less of Croats live in Serbia? You do realize that they were prosecuted too during 1990s?

Serbs like to say that Krajina is Serbian, but at the same time Kosovo is Serbian too. Croatia (without Baranja) used to expand more into Serbia, far from Ilok (the most eastern town in Croatia), but still nobody complains.

Regarding Hungary and Baranja I do not know much about that. Perhaps Szegedist and others can explain.

Who are Croats to you? VrhBosnian likes to joke how Dalmatians are actually Bosniaks, Serbs like to say they were Serbs, maybe they and Istrians should belong to Italy. Dralos says those from Zagorje are Slovenians. According to Serbs and Radic Slavonians are Serbs, lets not forget Hungarians, Bosniaks again.
I just know that ever since Croats came where they are they were always "under" someone. Well, I say now, they can f•ck off. They paid their part.

[American_Hispanist]

The ones who didnt left, did so because they had nothing to fear.
There was no retribution to those

the essence was fear though. fear makes people do things.

[Duke]

I have already said why more or less, but Id rather send PM



I am a realist Croat and I speak negatively only about Croats from Bosnia and Herzegovina (including all residents of BiH).
A lot of Croats near border where I live despise Croats from BiH. I was called names in school for example and such things can continue way after school and child mentality.Are they Serbs too?





There are 5% of Serbs in Croatia. There are 90% of Croats in Croatia. There is 90% of Germans in Germany... 84% of Serbs in Serbia. Why should Croatia have less than 90%? You do realize that three times less of Croats live in Serbia? You do realize that they were prosecuted too during 1990s?

Serbs like to say that Krajina is Serbian, but at the same time Kosovo is Serbian too. Croatia (without Baranja) used to expand more into Serbia, far from Ilok (the most eastern town in Croatia), but still nobody complains.

Regarding Hungary and Baranja I do not know much about that. Perhaps Szegedist and others can explain.

Who are Croats to you? VrhBosnian likes to joke how Dalmatians are actually Bosniaks, Serbs like to say they were Serbs, maybe they and Istrians should belong to Italy. Dralos says those from Zagorje are Slovenians. According to Serbs and Radic Slavonians are Serbs, lets not forget Hungarians, Bosniaks again.
I just know that ever since Croats came where they are they were always "under" someone. Well, I say now, they can f•ck off. They paid their part.

It is true, to Serbians we are Serbian, to Italians, Italians, to Slovenians, we are Slovenians, to Albanians now we are Albanians, to Hungarians Hungarians, to Bosniaks, we are Bosniak..

FFS i even heard Montenegrins to claim us as well

Everybody wonts a piece of us

[American_Hispanist]

There are 5% of Serbs in Croatia. There are 90% of Croats in Croatia. There is 90% of Germans in Germany... 84% of Serbs in Serbia. Why should Croatia have less than 90%? You do realize that three times less of Croats live in Serbia? You do realize that they were prosecuted too during 1990s?

I'm not denying Hrvats were persecuted. I Know they were (the behavior of Serbian militias in intentionally shelling Croatian majority villages and kicking out innocent civilians)


Serbs like to say that Krajina is Serbian, but at the same time Kosovo is Serbian too. Croatia (without Baranja) used to expand more into Serbia, far from Ilok (the most eastern town in Croatia), but still nobody complains.

I have already said Croatians retained or gained some land that's historically ethnic Croatian.




Who are Croats to you?

People who identify themselves as Hrvats.


VrhBosnian likes to joke how Dalmatians are actually Bosniaks, Serbs like to say they were Serbs, maybe they and Istrians should belong to Italy. Dralos says those from Zagorje are Slovenians. According to Serbs and Radic Slavonians are Serbs, lets not forget Hungarians, Bosniaks again.
I just know that ever since Croats came where they are they were always "under" someone. Well, I say now, they can f•ck off. They paid their part.

Croatians are Croatians. Nothing else. if these people want to troll by saying Croatians=Serbs, then it's trolling, nothing else.

[American_Hispanist]

It is true, to Serbians we are Serbian, to Italians, Italians, to Slovenians, we are Slovenians, to Albanians now we are Albanians, to Hungarians Hungarians, to Bosniaks, we are Bosniak..

FFS i even heard Montenegrins to claim us as well

Everybody wonts a piece of us

Because Cros are cool people, that's why. :D :lol:

[Duke]

Because Cros are cool people, that's why. :D :lol:

Its like they wont to be same as us, but hate us in same time.

Hard to explain

[Szegedist]

Regarding Hungary and Baranja I do not know much about that. Perhaps Szegedist and others can explain.
Baranya had a significant Hungarian population. Beli Manastir for example had a Hungarian relative majority in 1929.


Who are Croats to you? VrhBosnian likes to joke how Dalmatians are actually Bosniaks, Serbs like to say they were Serbs, maybe they and Istrians should belong to Italy. Dralos says those from Zagorje are Slovenians. According to Serbs and Radic Slavonians are Serbs, lets not forget Hungarians, Bosniaks again.
I just know that ever since Croats came where they are they were always "under" someone. Well, I say now, they can f•ck off. They paid their part.

to Hungarians Hungarians,

What the .... are you talking about? When did you see Hungarians think Croats are Hungarians?? No Hungarian thinks this. Once I joked about Avar-Hrvat Turanic brothers, but that is about it...

[derLowe]

I'm not denying Hrvats were persecuted. I Know they were (the behavior of Serbian militias in intentionally shelling Croatian majority villages and kicking out innocent civilians)



I have already said Croatians retained or gained some land that's historically ethnic Croatian.





People who identify themselves as Hrvats.



Croatians are Croatians. Nothing else. if these people want to troll by saying Croatians=Serbs, then it's trolling, nothing else.

Exactly that! Croats are Croats,saying any thing else diminishes their uniqueness as a people.

[Geni]

what for a bad man..are you cactus mexican _abdullah...a big troll http://youtu.be/jaex-84uc04

[Duke]

What the .... are you talking about? When did you see Hungarians think Croats are Hungarians?? No Hungarian thinks this. Once I joked about Avar-Hrvat Turanic brothers, but that is about it...


I am mostley talking about this

http://www.danube-swabians.org/hrastovac/historical/Images/DS-Areas.jpg


Not saying all of you are like this, but there are part of you that are

[American_Hispanist]

Its like they wont to be same as us, but hate us in same time.

Hard to explain

simple jealousy my friend. :D ;)


Exactly that! Croats are Croats,saying any thing else diminishes their uniqueness as a people.

It's just simple trolling what those people do. Croatians are a national/ethnic group, unique people in other words.


what for a bad man..are you cactus mexican _abdullah...a big troll http://youtu.be/jaex-84uc04

I'm not trolling here gypsy albanian, I'm having a discussion about why Hrvats actually gained from the territorial exchanges that happened in the last century. Do you care to input or do you want to have chimpouts like how your pseudo gypsy/Middle-Eastern albanian people have whenever things don't go their way?

[Geni]

I ask forgiveness for the intrusion to the Croatian friends .. here is my picture, put your so let's see who is gyphttp://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=26335&d=1360099469

[Duke]

simple jealousy my friend. :D ;)





I think of Croats of confederation of people/tribes under one flag.

There are lots of differences between us, you could probably make 5 or 6 small nations out of us.

Others maybe see it as our weakness, and act on that, but because of same hard history we share, it is our greatest strength

[Szegedist]

I am mostley talking about this

http://www.danube-swabians.org/hrastovac/historical/Images/DS-Areas.jpg


Not saying all of you are like this, but there are part of you that are


That map is mostly symbolic. The vast majority of nationalists do have claims on some neigbouring countries, but not Croatia, Slovenia or Austria. There are a few naive ones who want to make a common Monarchy again, but based on Croat agreement, and not annexation.

HCSP for example invited HVIM (probably the biggest Hungarian irredentist group) to it's gatherings. HVIM also organized Pro-Gotovina marches, etc. Do you think Croat and Hungarian nationalists would co-operate if we had any territorial claims?

Toroczkai explains it here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0ri7x6gP6s


By the way, I have noticed that a lot of "Hungary wants to annex Croatia" lies come from some other Balkan ethnicity ;)

[Duke]

That map is mostly symbolic. The vast majority of nationalists do have claims on some neigbouring countries, but not Croatia, Slovenia or Austria. There are a few naive ones who want to make a common Monarchy again, but based on Croat agreement, and not annexation.

HCSP for example invited HVIM (probably the biggest Hungarian irredentist group) to it's gatherings. HVIM also organized Pro-Gotovina marches, etc. Do you think Croat and Hungarian nationalists would co-operate if we had any territorial claims?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0ri7x6gP6s


our relations are good, but that doesent change the fact, some Hungarians think of Croatia as "lost land"

[Szegedist]

our relations are good, but that doesent change the fact, some Hungarians think of Croatia as "lost land"

And there are probably some pan-Slavic Croats who think Hungary is ancient Slavic land occupied by "asiatic hordes", and want to make common border with their Slavic brothers in the North. (you tried this in WW1). What's your point?

[Duke]

And there are probably some pan-Slavic Croats who think Hungary is ancient Slavic land occupied by "asiatic hordes", and want to make common border with their Slavic brothers in the North. (you tried this in WW1). What's your point?

Croatia was never actually a part of Hungary. Unlike some other territories.


Even if they are ,they are hard alternatives, and even if they think that, I doubt they think Hungary is Croatian

[Szegedist]

Even if they are ,they are hard alternatives, and even if they think that, I doubt they think Hungary is Croatian

I don't know any Hungarian who thinks of Croatia as part of Hungarian territory. The ones that want something with Croatia want a 'United Kingdom' England-Scotland type of solution.

[Duke]

I don't know any Hungarian who thinks of Croatia as part of Hungarian territory. The ones that want something with Croatia want a 'United Kingdom' England-Scotland type of solution.

But why would we do it, last time all glory went to Hungarians.

You basically wont us to be your "Scotland", yea right.

[Szegedist]

But why would we do it, last time all glory went to Hungarians.

You basically wont us to be your "Scotland", yea right.
This is what I tell them, that it is a very naive way to think, and that it's not going to happen, and Croats will never agree to it.

As for why, the usual arguments is stronger economy, "strength in unity", small weak states are bad, etc.
But like I said, they are a minority.


As for me, I would not protest against it if Croats wanted it, but I would never actively pursue it either, as it could bring us more harm than good (1 more enemy). We have so many other issues, both internal and external, that we don't need Josip Jelacic the Second ;)

[Hurrem sultana]

To be honest i believe the secret deal was,Croats kick out serbs and get a homogenous Croatia,serbs get RS ,Bosniaks get Federacija

and thats how things are slowly turning out to,its all planned

[Duke]

To be honest i believe the secret deal was,Croats kick out serbs and get a homogenous Croatia,serbs get RS ,Bosniaks get Federacija

and thats how things are slowly turning out to,its all planned


federacija, is a federation of Croats and Bosniaks, its not Bosniak only at all, and it isnt working

[Bosnjakinja]

federacija, is a federation of Croats and Bosniaks, its not Bosniak only at all, and it isnt working

Yes, but there is a reason why Croatia was so welcoming to Croats from both the Federation and RS - they needed to repopulate areas which had previously been inhabited by Serbs.

[Duke]

Yes, but there is a reason why Croatia was so welcoming to Croats from both the Federation and RS - they needed to repopulate areas which had previously been inhabited by Serbs.

Croats only left from areas that were under ABiH, and JNA control.

Where HVO was, both Croats, Serbs, and Bosniaks stayed.


Repopulation never really happen, there and most of it was from Kosovo Croats, who were few, one village worth of people

[Hurrem sultana]

federacija, is a federation of Croats and Bosniaks, its not Bosniak only at all, and it isnt working

this census will show croats are 9-10%,and that will still decrease with time,sorry but with villages in hercegovina there is no future,the oldies will stay,youth will go to zagreb,split,dubrovnik

i would too if i was croat in a herzegovina village


simply,as my dad puts it,niko bosanske hrvate nije postenije zajebao od tudzmana

[Bosnjakinja]

Croats only left from areas that were under ABiH, and JNA control.

Where HVO was, both Croats, Serbs, and Bosniaks stayed

That's not true that Bosniaks stayed where HVO was, in Mostar for instance many Bosniaks had to flee. And the Croats who fled from ABiH, VRS and JNA were welcomed warmly in Croatia, that is what I am talking about. Even economic migration from BiH after the war is welcomed by Croatia because the Croatian population is in decline. Even you yourself say that it is smart for Croats in BiH to leave.

[Duke]

this census will show croats are 9-10%,and that will still decrease with time,sorry but with villages in hercegovina there is no future,the oldies will stay,youth will go to zagreb,split,dubrovnik

i would too if i was croat in a herzegovina village


simply,as my dad puts it,niko bosanske hrvate nije postenije zajebao od tudzmana

Pa da, jer je potpisa ugovor sa vama.

There are probably 500 000 Croats in Bosnia, thats about 200 000-250 000 less, while Bosniaks dont even know what they are, some are Bosnains, some are Bosniaks, some are just Muslims... etc

You also forget that lots of you guys left, lets not forget you yourself are not in Bosnia

[Bosnjakinja]

I don't think Croats are 500 000 thousand at all, but I have had this discussion so many times that I am simply tired of it. I have my opinion, you have yours and time will tell who is right and what will happen.

[Hurrem sultana]

Pa da, jer je potpisa ugovor sa vama.

There are probably 500 000 Croats in Bosnia, thats about 200 000-250 000 less, while Bosniaks dont even know what they are, some are Bosnains, some are Bosniaks, some are just Muslims... etc

You also forget that lots of you guys left, lets not forget you yourself are not in Bosnia

true we are divided between bosniaks and bosnians,islam will show real situation.Bosniaks will be probably 48%,islamic believers 53%+-

not even as close as you,many also returned,and also bosniaks from Sandzak

[Duke]

I don't think Croats are 500 000 thousand at all, but I have had this discussion so many times that I am simply tired of it. I have my opinion, you have yours and time will tell who is right and what will happen.

So.. you think we lost more then 250K?

really?


Anyways we will se, but what i certanly know we have good birthrate there now

[Duke]

true we are divided between bosniaks and bosnians,islam will show real situation.Bosniaks will be probably 48%,islamic believers 53%+-

not even as close as you,many also returned,and also bosniaks from Sandzak

You cant put all Islamic belivers as Bosniaks, not by law anyways.

Sandžak is in Serbia, are they not Serbian citizens?

[Bosnjakinja]

So.. you think we lost more then 250K?

really?


Anyways we will se, but what i certanly know we have good birthrate there now

Yes I think there is a good possibility the number of Croats is between 300 and 400 000. Also the number of Bosniaks and Serbs are not as big as people think (census say that there are 4.5 million people in BiH which is ridiculous), but Croats have declined the most.

The birthrate in Herzegovina is good, in fact probably the best in the country except for Cazinska Krajina, but in other Croat areas of Bosnia it is very very bad. And Herzegovina also has a lot of emigration to Croatia, some of the Hercegovci return but most don't.

[Bosnjakinja]

Sandžak is in Serbia, are they not Serbian citizens?

I think she means the immigration of Sandzak Bosniaks to BiH. Sandzaklije and immigration are the only reasons why Sarajevo for example has a positive growth rate, because the natality in Sarajevo is very bad.

[Duke]

Yes I think there is a good possibility the number of Croats is between 300 and 400 000. Also the number of Bosniaks and Serbs are not as big as people think (census say that there are 4.5 million people in BiH which is ridiculous), but Croats have declined the most.

The birthrate in Herzegovina is good, in fact probably the best in the country except for Cazinska Krajina, but in other Croat areas of Bosnia it is very very bad. And Herzegovina also has a lot of emigration to Croatia, some of the Hercegovci return but most don't.

According to statistics made by Herceg Bosna, estimate is 500 000. We will see, there is no point in arguing

[Hurrem sultana]

You cant put all Islamic belivers as Bosniaks, not by law anyways.

Sandžak is in Serbia, are they not Serbian citizens?

primali su drzavljanstva kao i bh hrvati u HR

[Insuperable]

Duke koga briga za Hercegovinu i za Bosnu zemlja je kurac ionako

[Hurrem sultana]

Duke koga briga za Hercegovinu i za Bosnu zemlja je kurac ionako

Zemlja je bezveze svakako,nema nista sem kamena,well give it to us :D

[Duke]

Duke koga briga za Hercegovinu i za Bosnu zemlja je kurac ionako

Naravno da me briga za moje ljude, ti imaš pravo na svoje stajalište, al nemoj mi ga nabijat na nos

[Duke]

Zemlja je bezveze svakako,nema nista sem kamena,well give it to us :D

proživili smo mi carstva i kraljevstva, poturčivanja, posrbljavanja i ina, nebrini ti za nas

[Hurrem sultana]

proživili smo mi carstva i kraljevstva, nebrini ti za nas

I mi smo vjeruj

[Insuperable]

Zemlja je bezveze svakako,nema nista sem kamena,well give it to us :D

Eto uzmi je ionako ne sluzi nicemu

Ali zasto Bosanci muslimani misle da je i Herc njihova?

[Duke]

I mi smo vjeruj

da jeste, al vi ste se transformirali, za razliku od nas.

Jer vidiš ljudi sa kamena su tvrdoglavi

[Sultan Suleiman]

Zašto bi ljudi stajali u državi koja ih smatra neprijateljima, a njihovo kao svoje?

Možeš li mi dati primjere te "aktivne hostilnosti" prema Hrvatima? Još nisam vidio nikakva masovna paljenja hrvatske literature ili zastava po Sarajevu, niti sam primjetio nikakva prisiljenja 30K-40K Hrvata u Sarajevu da prodaju stanove po niskim cijenama dok im u porodicu drže uperene cijevi kao što ste vi radili u Mostaru.


Svako ko je pametan odlazi, baš zato šta je pametan

Pa šta onda pizde o majorizaciji o "bošnjačkoj većini" i "majorizaciji" kad sami odlaze iz Bosne u hiljadama godišnje?

Hoćemo li reći da su Bošnjaci krivi za njih nedostatak lojalnosti državi ili da je egzodus Hrvata posljedica politike sami njih koji su radili sva ista sranja kao Srbi, ali samo isti rezultat nisu postigli niti će ikada postići.

[Duke]

Eto uzmi je ionako ne sluzi nicemu

Ali zasto Bosanci muslimani misle da je i Herc njihova?

Zato jer nemogu pojimit da je ovakva BiH, i u ovim granicama napravljena od Tita, pa misle da je legitimno zaslužuju

[Sultan Suleiman]

You cant put all Islamic belivers as Bosniaks, not by law anyways.

Sandžak is in Serbia, are they not Serbian citizens?

That is a rather silly notion.

By that logic Serbs and Croats are Bosniaks.

[Duke]

Možeš li mi dati primjere te "aktivne hostilnosti" prema Hrvatima? Još nisam vidio nikakva masovna paljenja hrvatske literature ili zastava po Sarajevu, niti sam primjetio nikakva prisiljenja 30K-40K Hrvata u Sarajevu da prodaju stanove po niskim cijenama dok im u porodicu drže uperene cijevi kao što ste vi radili u Mostaru.



Pa šta onda pizde o majorizaciji o "bošnjačkoj većini" i "majorizaciji" kad sami odlaze iz Bosne u hiljadama godišnje?

Hoćemo li reći da su Bošnjaci krivi za njih nedostatak lojalnosti državi ili da je egzodus Hrvata posljedica politike sami njih koji su radili sva ista sranja kao Srbi, ali samo isti rezultat nisu postigli niti će ikada postići.

U Sarajevu ima više Kineza neg Hrvata, u Mostaru ima muslimana, tako da ne pričaš bajkice.

Naravno da jeste hostilno raspoloženi, dovoljno je otić na Sarajevo-X ili Klitoris.ba

[Insuperable]

Koja je to jebena pamet
"Ako oni odu i smanji im se broj ispod broka x mi cemo uzet tu zemlju"
Koji debili jebote
E bas necete

[Duke]

Koja je to jebena pamet
"Ako oni odu i smanji im se broj ispod broka x mi cemo uzet tu zemlju"
Koji debili jebote
E bas necete


Pa kužiš ti njihovu logiku?

To je zapravo i njihova strategija za BiH

[Sultan Suleiman]

The birthrate in Herzegovina is good, in fact probably the best in the country except for Cazinska Krajina, but in other Croat areas of Bosnia it is very very bad. And Herzegovina also has a lot of emigration to Croatia, some of the Hercegovci return but most don't.

By which sources can you back this up?

Herzegovina is in the same free fall as is Podrinje and Posavina, all one big ass gray zone.

[Hurrem sultana]

Koja je to jebena pamet
"Ako oni odu i smanji im se broj ispod broka x mi cemo uzet tu zemlju"
Koji debili jebote
E bas necete

E vidjecemo

[Duke]

E vidjecemo

Znači otvoreno govoriš da vršite otimačinu.


Doći će vam na naplatu, čeka vas dosta a i da toga niste svjesni ;)

[Bosnjakinja]

By which sources can you back this up?

Herzegovina is in the same free fall as is Podrinje and Posavina, all one big ass gray zone.

Some statistics posted by Croats on some forums. If they are true then Herzegovina have a good birthrate. But it's possible that it is not.

[Insuperable]

E vidjecemo

Hahaha jos viceva

[Bosnjakinja]

Znači otvoreno govoriš da vršite otimačinu.


Kakva otimacina, majorizacija ba.

Nisi u toku.

[Duke]

Kakva otimacina, majorizacija ba.

Nisi u toku.

da da, samo slabo vam ide, zapeli ste za kamen

[Sultan Suleiman]

U Sarajevu ima više Kineza neg Hrvata, u Mostaru ima muslimana, tako da ne pričaš bajkice.

Jesi i to pokupio sa Ercegbosne xD


Naravno da jeste hostilno raspoloženi, dovoljno je otić na Sarajevo-X ili Klitoris.ba

Klitoris.ba je najveća skupina morona, cvjećara, komunjara, imbecila i retarda koja je ikada počastila internet. Čak i da uzmemo ta preseravanja kao "legitimno opće mišljenje Bošnjaka", dovoljno je samo da se baci oko na hercegbosnu.org i njihova drkanja na Ahmetoviće, logore u Mostaru i Vareš i dovoljno će ti biti jasno ko prema kome ima više hostilnosti.

[Hurrem sultana]

Znači otvoreno govoriš da vršite otimačinu.


Doći će vam na naplatu, čeka vas dosta a i da toga niste svjesni ;)
Ulazite u EU,zao mi je,prosla su ta vremena ;) ne smijete vise pisnuti dok EU ne kaze hajde

[Bosnjakinja]

da da, samo slabo vam ide

Ok, ali cemu onda kukanje? O neravnopravnosti Hrvata BiH mislim..

[Hurrem sultana]

da da, samo slabo vam ide, zapeli ste za kamen

Polako

[Sultan Suleiman]

Koja je to jebena pamet
"Ako oni odu i smanji im se broj ispod broka x mi cemo uzet tu zemlju"
Koji debili jebote
E bas necete

Bracika ti ne kontaš da niko neće baš "na tu zemlju".

Bošnjake više intresuje povratak Podrinja i Stolca nego neke kamenjarske vukojebine u zapadnoj Hercegovini.

[Duke]

Jesi i to pokupio sa Ercegbosne xD



Klitoris.ba je najveća skupina morona, cvjećara, komunjara, imbecila i retarda koja je ikada počastila internet. Čak i da uzmemo ta preseravanja kao "legitimno opće mišljenje Bošnjaka", dovoljno je samo da se baci oko na hercegbosnu.org i njihova drkanja na Ahmetoviće, logore u Mostaru i Vareš i dovoljno će ti biti jasno ko prema kome ima više hostilnosti.

Na Herceg Bosni ima redovnih Muslimana i Srba, na vašim stranicama Hrvati i Srbi se brišu, i vlada jednoumlje.
Nisu Haram izgleda :laugh:

[Bosnjakinja]

Bracika ti ne kontaš da niko neće baš "na tu zemlju".

Bošnjake više intresuje povratak Podrinja i Stolca nego neke kamenjarske vukojebine u zapadnoj Hercegovini.

Bas...sumnjam da je prosjecni Bosnjak uopste cuo za Posusje ili Citluk recimo.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Some statistics posted by Croats on some forums. If they are true then Herzegovina have a good birthrate. But it's possible that it is not.

All you have to take is one good look at the Croats here and their "facts", it becomes quite obvious that most of their facts there still have the fresh aroma of their rectums.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Na Herceg Bosni ima redovnih Muslimana i Srba, na vašim stranicama Hrvati i Srbi se brišu, i vlada jednoumlje.
Nisu Haram izgleda :laugh:

Gdje se brišu moj dragi Latinu?

[Duke]

Bracika ti ne kontaš da niko neće baš "na tu zemlju".

Bošnjake više intresuje povratak Podrinja i Stolca nego neke kamenjarske vukojebine u zapadnoj Hercegovini.

Naravno, jer niste prilagođeni za život na kamenjaru, niste nikad ni bili

[Sultan Suleiman]

Bas...sumnjam da je prosjecni Bosnjak uopste cuo za Posusje ili Citluk recimo.

Ma i oni bježe iz tih vukojebina, a kad formiraju svoje Štokholmske, Berlinske ili ako su stvarno patriorski nastrojeni Zagrebačke brigade počinju preseravat kako im Bošnjaci otimaju ovo, ne daju ono, pa oni jadni nisu imali izbora nego pobjeć iz tamnog vilajeta xD

Ma tipična latinska sranja, lijepa moja.

[Hurrem sultana]

Naravno, jer niste prilagođeni za život na kamenjaru, niste nikad ni bili

Polako,prilagodicemo se

[Insuperable]

Bracika ti ne kontaš da niko neće baš "na tu zemlju".

Bošnjake više intresuje povratak Podrinja i Stolca nego neke kamenjarske vukojebine u zapadnoj Hercegovini.

Ne znam za Podrinje, nisam tamo nikada bio, ali jesi li ti svjestan kolika je vukojebina Stolac? Vukojebina na vukojebinu pa sve na kvadrat
U Sirokome samo imas pesto sluzbeno prijavljenih firmi :lol:

[Duke]

Polako,prilagodicemo se

Nemožete, vi ste evoluirali uz gnjojivo i govna

[Sultan Suleiman]

Naravno, jer niste prilagođeni za život na kamenjaru, niste nikad ni bili

Da niko sem guštera i drugih reptila, nije baš prilagođen za to beznađe.

[Duke]

Da niko sem guštera i drugih reptila, nije baš prilagođen za to beznađe.

I Hrvata

[Insuperable]

Kao sto rekoh nije samo Hercegovina kurac nego cijela BiH tako da je suvisno, a i smijesno of nazadnoga stanovnika BiH srati po "zapadnome kamenjaru"

[Hurrem sultana]

I Hrvata

Neka vam ono sto je uvijek bilo vase,ljubuski i tamo ta mjesta,,Mostar cemo preuzeti ,to je sigurno ;)

[Sultan Suleiman]

Ne znam za Podrinje, nisam tamo nikada bio, ali jesi li ti svjestan kolika je vukojebina Stolac? Vukojebina na vukojebinu pa sve na kvadrat

Stolac ste unakazili do bola.


U Sirokome samo imas pesto sluzbeno prijavljenih firmi :lol:

I više od tri-četvrtine tih firmi preživljavaju samo zato što neplaćaju poreze, taj Široki je poznat kao najveća rupa za utaju poreza na Balkanu. Svaki put kad se pokuša nešto tu promjeniti, odmah počnete zapomagati o majorizaciji, islamizaciji ili bilo kojoj aktuelnoj -ciji.

[Bosnjakinja]

Ma i oni bježe iz tih vukojebina, a kad formiraju svoje Štokholmske, Berlinske ili ako su stvarno patriorski nastrojeni Zagrebačke brigade počinju preseravat kako im Bošnjaci otimaju ovo, ne daju ono, pa oni jadni nisu imali izbora nego pobjeć iz tamnog vilajeta xD

Ma tipična latinska sranja, lijepa moja.
:-D Meni je ipak najzanimljivije kako diskusije sa njima uvijek pocinju sa kukanjem kako ih majoriziramo i maltretiramo na svakom koraku a zavrsaju sa hvaljenjem kako oni odlicno stoje u BiH, ekonomska su kicma zemlje, natalitet im je veci nego u Bangladesu :D Mislim, ako je zaista tako niko sretnija od mene...ali ponavljam, cemu onda ona prica o majorizaciji?

[Sultan Suleiman]

I Hrvata

Iz tvojih usta u Božije uši.

[Duke]

Neka vam ono sto je uvijek bilo vase,ljubuski i tamo ta mjesta,,Mostar cemo preuzeti ,to je sigurno ;)

očete pičku materinu, slabo rađate, haha

" Slično kao što su Eskimi najsposobniji gospodari sjevernog leda, a crnci gazde tropskih prašuma ili npr. Arapi nedostižni u pješčanim pustinjama - tako su već kroz više tisućljeća Hrvati i njihovi fizički srodnici najjači gospodari po kamenjarama i pećinama ljutoga krasa Eurazije, što je jezgrovito sažeto i u našoj narodnoj poslovici: "Na golom kamenjaru žive jedino zmije i Hrvati!". Zato mi stručno pripadamo u ekološku grupu petrobionti tj. grčki: petra = kamen-stijena, bios = život (kao što su npr. kaktusi, škorpioni, zmije i Hrvati), koji su najotporniji za život na golom kamenju. To zapravo znači da su već izvorni Prahrvati po prirodoznanstvenoj definiciji bili prilagodjeni "ljudi s kamenjara". U tomu je glavna ekonomsko-biološka tajna kako su sve dosad Hrvati kao mali narod ipak uspjeli preživjeti tolika tisućljeća od prapovijesti do danas: Tijekom takve dugotrajne evolucije su se njihov genotip, tradicije, ekonomija i ratovanje idealno prilagodili i specializirali za trajan život na golomu kamenitom krasu, gdje su Hrvati postali jednako nedostižni i neuništivi, kao npr. Arapi u pustinjskom pijesku ili Eskimi na polarnom ledu. "



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFkG5jNRSTk

[Sultan Suleiman]

:-D Meni je ipak najzanimljivije kako diskusije sa njima uvijek pocinju sa kukanjem kako ih majoriziramo i maltretiramo na svakom koraku a zavrsaju sa hvaljenjem kako oni odlicno stoje u BiH, ekonomska su kicma zemlje, natalitet im je veci nego u Bangladesu :D Mislim, ako je zaista tako niko sretnija od mene...ali ponavljam, cemu onda ona prica o majorizaciji?

Preseravanja lijepa moja, skutorska preseravanja.

[Insuperable]

Stolac ste unakazili do bola.



I više od tri-četvrtine tih firmi preživljavaju samo zato što neplaćaju poreze, taj Široki je poznat kao najveća rupa za utaju poreza na Balkanu. Svaki put kad se pokuša nešto tu promjeniti, odmah počnete zapomagati o majorizaciji, islamizaciji ili bilo kojoj aktuelnoj -ciji.


Ah jebi ga nama ste ga vi unakazili mi smo vama...
Nije tri cetvrtine nego osamdeset cetvrtina:lol:

Svi ste vi (a i ja) govna, pripadnici BiH-a. Ne treba nitko pokazivati jedan na drugoga jer pogodi sta svi smo mi govna jer da je i bilo sto drugacije bilo isto bi ostali govna jer samo to znamo i biti

[Hurrem sultana]

Zato mi stručno pripadamo u ekološku grupu petrobionti tj. grčki: petra = kamen-stijena, bios = život (kao što su npr. kaktusi, škorpioni, zmije i Hrvati), koji su najotporniji za život na golom kamenju

HAHAHAHHAHAH nasmija me moj petrabios :D

[Insuperable]

:-D Meni je ipak najzanimljivije kako diskusije sa njima uvijek pocinju sa kukanjem kako ih majoriziramo i maltretiramo na svakom koraku a zavrsaju sa hvaljenjem kako oni odlicno stoje u BiH, ekonomska su kicma zemlje, natalitet im je veci nego u Bangladesu :D Mislim, ako je zaista tako niko sretnija od mene...ali ponavljam, cemu onda ona prica o majorizaciji?

A ja mislio da si ti sama rekla da je to jedan od najbogatijih krajeva itd

[Sultan Suleiman]

Bracika vise se ponasas kao gljiva nego ti tvoji petrobios :]

[Duke]

HAHAHAHHAHAH nasmija me moj petrabios :D

smješno možda, ali istinito


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFkG5jNRSTk

[Insuperable]

Ima jos u Europi zemalja sa tri naroda i tri (ali slicne) vjere pa su prenapredni.
Mi se samo koljemo i postajemo ruglo narodima
Tko se mrzi i ubija to su glupi ljudi i ne sluze nicemu i po svojoj okolini pokazuju svoju prosvjetljenost

[Sultan Suleiman]

Ah jebi ga nama ste ga vi unakazili mi smo vama...
Nije tri cetvrtine nego osamdeset cetvrtina:lol:

Svi ste vi (a i ja) govna, pripadnici BiH-a. Ne treba nitko pokazivati jedan na drugoga jer pogodi sta svi smo mi govna jer da je i bilo sto drugacije bilo isto bi ostali govna jer samo to znamo i biti

Tu se slazemo :]

Govna mi, govna Vi, zivjeele nase septicke ;)

[Insuperable]

Tu se slazemo :]

Govna mi, govna Vi, zivjeele nase septicke ;)

Naj jaca stvar mi je kada je FIFA izbacila BiH sa natjecanja
Ne mogu se ni u tome dogovoriti

[Bosnjakinja]

Tu se slazemo :]

Govna mi, govna Vi, zivjeele nase septicke ;)

Meni ova prica kako smo svi "govna" ide na neku stvar :rolleyes: Zasto ja nikad ne vidim Makedonca ili Albanca da tako govori o svom narodu ili svojoj zemlji? Mislite da se tamo bolje zivi, da su oni bogatiji, kulturniji, civilizovaniji? Jesu qrac.

@Solin: Hrvati Hercegovci su dobri u biznisu, stojim iza toga.

[Hurrem sultana]

Naj jaca stvar mi je kada je FIFA izbacila BiH sa natjecanja
Ne mogu se ni u tome dogovoriti

Najbolje bi bilo da vi odete u HR a srbi u Srbiju ,,bogami :P

[Insuperable]

Meni ova prica kako smo svi "govna" ide na neku stvar :rolleyes: Zasto ja nikad ne vidim Makedonca ili Albanca da tako govori o svom narodu ili svojoj zemlji? Mislite da se tamo bolje zivi, da su oni bogatiji, kulturniji, civilizovaniji? Jesu qrac.

@Solin: Hrvati Hercegovci su dobri u biznisu, stojim iza toga.

To svaki pripadnik BiH, a i svaki Balkanac mora reci sam sebi.
Mora si reci, uvidjeti i sam sebi priznati da je glup, nazadan, sramota, te da se to o njemu ili njoj misli iz nekih drugih daljih zemalja, a ne se potajno zavaravati kruvicama kruha
Kada to ucini pola posla je napravljeno i tek onda moze krenuti nesto napraviti

[Mraz]

And loses Bosnia it seems. In Bosnia the main competitors for power are Bosnian Serbs and Bosniaks.

Bosnia was never a Croatian possession, except during WWII.

[Sisak]

očete pičku materinu, slabo rađate, haha

" Slično kao što su Eskimi najsposobniji gospodari sjevernog leda, a crnci gazde tropskih prašuma ili npr. Arapi nedostižni u pješčanim pustinjama - tako su već kroz više tisućljeća Hrvati i njihovi fizički srodnici najjači gospodari po kamenjarama i pećinama ljutoga krasa Eurazije, što je jezgrovito sažeto i u našoj narodnoj poslovici: "Na golom kamenjaru žive jedino zmije i Hrvati!". Zato mi stručno pripadamo u ekološku grupu petrobionti tj. grčki: petra = kamen-stijena, bios = život (kao što su npr. kaktusi, škorpioni, zmije i Hrvati), koji su najotporniji za život na golom kamenju. To zapravo znači da su već izvorni Prahrvati po prirodoznanstvenoj definiciji bili prilagodjeni "ljudi s kamenjara". U tomu je glavna ekonomsko-biološka tajna kako su sve dosad Hrvati kao mali narod ipak uspjeli preživjeti tolika tisućljeća od prapovijesti do danas: Tijekom takve dugotrajne evolucije su se njihov genotip, tradicije, ekonomija i ratovanje idealno prilagodili i specializirali za trajan život na golomu kamenitom krasu, gdje su Hrvati postali jednako nedostižni i neuništivi, kao npr. Arapi u pustinjskom pijesku ili Eskimi na polarnom ledu. "



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFkG5jNRSTk

Hahaha

[Bosnjakinja]

To svaki pripadnik BiH, a i svaki Balkanac mora reci sam sebi.
Mora si reci, uvidjeti i sam sebi priznati da je glup, nazadan, sramota, a ne se potajno zavaravati kruvicama kruha
Kada to ucini pola posla je napravljeno i tek onda moze krenuti nesto napraviti

Samokritika je svakako dobra stvar, samo nemoj kukanja koje je svrha samom sebi.

Ja evo nisam glupa i nazadna pa nemam sta da "priznam" po tom pitanju.

[Duke]

Najbolje bi bilo da vi odete u HR a srbi u Srbiju ,,bogami :P

Kažem ti ti si gnjojarka, nemaš veze s kamenjarom, crkla bi tamo.

Al nema smisla tebi govorit LOL

[Hurrem sultana]

Kažem ti ti si gnjojarka, nemaš veze s kamenjarom, crkla bi tamo.

Al nema smisla tebi govorit LOL

Lol,kako uspijevaju hrvati iz srednje bosne?

[Insuperable]

Samokritika je svakako dobra stvar, samo nemoj kukanja koje je svrha samom sebi.

Ja evo nisam glupa i nazadna pa nemam sta da "priznam" po tom pitanju.

Nisam mislio sada na pojedince
To sto sam rekao kada bi mogli trebali bi reci kolektivno jer u suprotnome oni koji bi zeljeli nesto napraviti se gube medu mediokritetima
Pitanje je da li se ljudi sa ovih prostora uopce mogu promijeniti te da li imaju potencijala nesto napraviti i kada bi htjeli

[Duke]

Lol,kako uspijevaju hrvati iz srednje bosne?

I eskim bi preživio u srednjoj bosni, al neznam ddal bi mi na artiku :D

[Bosnjakinja]

Nisam mislio sada na pojedince
To sto sam rekao kada bi mogli trebali bi reci kolektivno jer u suprotnome oni koji bi zeljeli nesto napraviti se gube medu mediokritetima
Pitanje je da li se ljudi sa ovih prostora uopce mogu promijeniti te da li imaju potencijala nesto napraviti i kada bi htjeli

Ja mislim da imaju potencijala ali da ih jebe upravo taj gubitnicki i samodestruktivni mentalitet...kao "ionako nismo ni za sta, zasto da se uopste trudimo".

[Hurrem sultana]

I eskim bi preživio u srednjoj bosni, al neznam ddal bi mi na artiku :D

a kako hrvat iz fucking srednje bosne koji ode u medju kamenje uspjeva? sto i ja nebi mogla?

[Bosnjakinja]

Play nice people, idem u krpice :D

[Insuperable]

Ja mislim da imaju potencijala ali da ih jebe upravo taj gubitnicki i samodestruktivni mentalitet...kao "ionako nismo ni za sta, zasto da se uopste trudimo".

Eh da to je to ili kao sto je jedan ovdje najbolje srocio sto je to balkansko mentalitet - "osjecaj zadovoljstva biti drugorazredan"
Ali ima tu jos toga

Vecina se ovdje (pa i ja sa razlogom) divi sjevernjacima i sjeverozapadnjacima i ostalima
Nasi domaci kreteni non stop spominju ili kosooke ili Amere ili Njemce: " vidi sta je ovaj Njemac napravio" "nema do Japanaca" "to moze samo ovaj napraviti"...
Zasto ljudi sa ovih prostora ne kazu "neka se nama netko divi" "neka kazu to ti je hrvatska, bosanska, srpska... pamet"
Bosanci ne vole svoje susjede
Hrvati ne vole svoje susjede
Srbi ne vole svoje susjede

Pitaj Norvezanina za Svedana, pitaj Njemca za Nizozemca, pitaj Francuza za Njemca ... i svi ce reci relativno lijepo, a i oni su imali sto ratova, a danas suraduju i napreduju. Zasto? Jer samo glupani ratuju i mrze se.

[Sisak]

21 čitač ove teme

[Hurrem sultana]

Eh da to je to ili kao sto je jedan ovdje najbolje srocio sto je to balkansko mentalitet - "osjecaj zadovoljstva biti drugorazredan"
Ali ima tu jos toga

Vecina se ovdje (pa i ja sa razlogom) divi sjevernjacima i sjeverozapadnjacima i ostalima
Nasi domaci kreteni non stop spominju ili kosooke ili Amere ili Njemce: " vidi sta je ovaj Njemac napravio" "nema do Japanaca" "to moze samo ovaj napraviti"...
Zasto ljudi sa ovih prostora ne kazu "neka se nama netko divi" "neka kazu to ti je hrvatska, bosanska, srpska... pamet"
Bosanci ne vole svoje susjede
Hrvati ne vole svoje susjede
Srbi ne vole svoje susjede

Pitaj Norvezanina za Svedana, pitaj Njemca za Nizozemca, pitaj Francuza za Njemca ... i svi ce reci relativno lijepo, a i oni su imali sto ratova, a danas suraduju i napreduju. Zasto? Jer samo glupani ratuju i mrze se.

kad su ratovali? a kad smo mi? ocekujes da ljudi zaborave nakon 20 godina,treba tu jos dobrih 50

[Insuperable]

kad su ratovali? a kad smo mi? ocekujes da ljudi zaborave nakon 20 godina,treba tu jos dobrih 50

Da, izgleda da pricam za kurca. Ne znam odakle bih posao da ti nesto kazem.

[dralos]

no croats arent,albanians are we have lost millions of albanians to serbs,greeks,turks and bosniaks(sandzak and in montenegro)
and about land,more than 80% of our original land isnt anymore but now with kosova independent we're restoring this part of our lost

[Peyrol]

Not really, Croatia is bigger now than before WW1. They gained Dalmatia and Istria.

That's for sure...this was Italy in 1940...compare with the modern one...

http://www.stelladitalianews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/italia.jpg

[dado]

kakvi gubitnici...hrvati su se nakrali samo tako

[Loki]

Maybe Dalmatia should have been given to Bosnia.

[Duke]

a kako hrvat iz fucking srednje bosne koji ode u medju kamenje uspjeva? sto i ja nebi mogla?

pa da eskim iz srednje bosne ode na artik, uspio bi.

Fali ti logike

[Duke]

That's for sure...this was Italy in 1940...compare with the modern one...

http://www.stelladitalianews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/italia.jpg

haha, libereting our teritories is not a gain in any way or sense

[Peyrol]

Maybe Dalmatia should have been given to Bosnia.

Croatians are the moajority of population, so now (2012) is 100% right the croatian posession of the territory.




BTW, ''you'' (english) promised the entire n.Dalmatia to us in the London Treaty of 1915

http://www.balcanicaucaso.org/var/obc/storage/images/dossier/dossier/articolo7/222476-1-ita-IT/Articolo1_large.jpg

The region was romance speaker (Dalmatian language) until 1600, btw...last dalmatian speaker, Tuone Udaina (or Antonio Udaina) died in 1898

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmatian_language )

[Rastko]

Dodem ulogiram se ovdje svako nekoliko da vidim sta ima na par minuta...Samo cu se kiselo nasmijat na ovaj thread.I na jadne pokusaje gazde da trola.


Uglavnom htio sam rec da u 10. mjesecu selim u kamenjar ,tocnije u Siroki najrapidnije rastuci grad federacije da s buducom radim na natalitetu.

Haj,vozdra sto bi se reklo u Tehe...ups Sarajevu :D

[Duke]

Croatians are the moajority of population, so now (2012) is 100% right the croatian posession of the territory.




BTW, ''you'' (english) promised the entire n.Dalmatia to us in the London Treaty of 1915

http://www.balcanicaucaso.org/var/obc/storage/images/dossier/dossier/articolo7/222476-1-ita-IT/Articolo1_large.jpg

The region was romance speaker (Dalmatian language) until 1600, btw...last dalmatian speaker, Tuone Udaina (or Antonio Udaina) died in 1898

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmatian_language )


trading with other peoples land, you should be put back under Germans.

Germany lost a lot

[Loki]

The region was romance speaker (Dalmatian language) until 1600, btw...last dalmatian speaker, Tuone Udaina (or Antonio Udaina) died in 1898

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmatian_language )

Aha ... which connects with what we discussed earlier about Dalmatians. So they're basically Slavicized Romance people?

[Hurrem sultana]

pa da eskim iz srednje bosne ode na artik, uspio bi.

Fali ti logike


malo morgen,pa nije u genetici ako je neko zivio u jednoj BanjaLuci recimo ,zadnjih 100 godina,i kako se on mogao prilagoditi lakse nego drugi od istog mjesta? pa nisu hrvati posebne zivotinje lol

[Duke]

malo morgen,pa nije u genetici ako je neko zivio u jednoj BanjaLuci recimo ,zadnjih 100 godina,i kako se on mogao prilagoditi lakse nego drugi od istog mjesta? pa nisu hrvati posebne zivotinje lol

evolucija, sunce mamino

[Duke]

Aha ... which connects with what we discussed earlier about Dalmatians. So they're basically Slavicized Romance people?

Udaina was italian imigrant from Udinese, and spoke Udinese dialect, such constructs.

BTW why do you care

[Hurrem sultana]

evolucija, sunce mamino

da evolucija srce,ne poznaje nacionalno opredjeljenje,ako je hrvat u zadnjih 100-200 godina zivio u sumi Banjaluckoj nema veze sto je on u srcu hrvat

[Loki]

BTW why do you care

lol is it a secret or what? :D I like to study history and learn more.

[Duke]

da evolucija srce,ne poznaje nacionalno opredjeljenje,ako je hrvat u zadnjih 100-200 godina zivio u sumi Banjaluckoj nema veze sto je on u srcu hrvat

Geni se nasljeđuju, nemate vi to u kostima, nebi se tamo snašli, pocrkali bi svi

[Peyrol]

Aha ... which connects with what we discussed earlier about Dalmatians. So they're basically Slavicized Romance people?

Not 100% romanic, but the romanic ethnocultural impud is definitely very high still nowaday.
Basically, in the middle age there was an ethnic meltin' pot of indigenous romance populations and croats, even if they like to deny this fact.

This is the areal of dalmatian language (and culture) in the middle ages

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Morlacchi.jpg

[Duke]

lol is it a secret or what? :D I like to study history and learn more.

Is English native language of Irish?

Lets just say Italians failed, where English somewhat succeded

[Hurrem sultana]

Geni se nasljeđuju, nemate vi to u kostima, nebi se tamo snašli, pocrkali bi svi

lool bilo je tama bosnjaka za vrijeme osmanlija,znaci i mi imamo to u sebi negdje skriveno lol

[dado]

Maybe Dalmatia should have been given to Bosnia.

absolutely...just look at that unnatural shape of croatia....i am sure if bosnia was majority christian county that croatia wouldnt have half of the coast it has now

[Loki]

Is English native language of Irish?

Lets just say Italians failed, where English somewhat succeded

I totally don't see the relevance, but anyway.

[Duke]

lool bilo je tama bosnjaka za vrijeme osmanlija,znaci i mi imamo to u sebi negdje skriveno lol


Možda jedan mali sidtni dio vas, pa i ako je bilo do sada se razvodnilo, al ti ionako nisu bili dovoljno tvrdoglavi

[Duke]

I totally don't see the relevance, but anyway.

how?

Its pretty clear to 6 year old girl


Romanized= language shift

[Peyrol]

Udaina was italian imigrant from Udinese, and spoke Udinese dialect, such constructs.

BTW why do you care


Lol, what is supposed to be ''udinese dialect''?

In Udine they speak furlan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friulian_language) (see link), which isn't a ''dialect'' but an independent rhaeto-romanic language. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhaeto-Romance_languages)

And btw, this is a prayer written by Udaina...and isn't furlan. It's dalmatic:

Tuota nuester, che te sante intel sil,
sait santificuot el naun to.
Vigna el raigno to.
Sait fuot la voluntuot toa, coisa in sil, coisa in tiara
Duote costa dai el pun nuester cotidiun.
E remetiaj le nuestre debete,
coisa nojiltri remetiaime a i nuestri debetuar.
E naun ne menur in tentatiaun,
miu deleberiajne dal mal.

[Duke]

Lol, what is supposed to be ''udinese dialect''?

In Udine they speak furlan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friulian_language) (see link), which isn't a ''dialect'' but an independent rhaeto-romanic language.

And btw, this is a prayer written by Udaina...and isn't furlan. It's dalmatic:

Tuota nuester, che te sante intel sil,
sait santificuot el naun to.
Vigna el raigno to.
Sait fuot la voluntuot toa, coisa in sil, coisa in tiara
Duote costa dai el pun nuester cotidiun.
E remetiaj le nuestre debete,
coisa nojiltri remetiaime a i nuestri debetuar.
E naun ne menur in tentatiaun,
miu deleberiajne dal mal.


who cares about language of intruders?

[Hurrem sultana]

Možda jedan mali sidtni dio vas, pa i ako je bilo do sada se razvodnilo, al ti ionako nisu bili dovoljno tvrdoglavi

zasto su ljudi opstali? zato sto se lako prilagode na nove situacije,a danas kad imas sve mogucnosti koje ti tehnologija pruza,kad u hlad moze kad ti naumpadne,ne vjerujem da problem predstavlja vruci kamen

[Duke]

zasto su ljudi opstali? zato sto se lako prilagode na nove situacije,a danas kad imas sve mogucnosti koje ti tehnologija pruza,kad u hlad moze kad ti naumpadne,ne vjerujem da problem predstavlja vruci kamen

fali vam snalažljivosti i prirodne izdržljivosti.

[Loki]

how?

Its pretty clear to 6 year old girl


Romanized= language shift

But we don't disagree there. They were Romanized indigenous Balkanites (i.e. Illyrians and others), who were then again Slavicized, to make the modern Dalmatians.

[Peyrol]

who cares about language of intruders?

This isn't ''intruder languages'', but obviously a romance-slavic hybrid.
It's a shame that was lost as living language.

[Hurrem sultana]

fali vam snalažljivosti i prirodne izdržljivosti.

Ako mogu hrvati mozemo i mi niste nista vise superiorniji od nas,jebiga,na kraju krajeva sto cemo tamo...nase je zivotoljubiva zemlja,koja radja,grije ,hladi...vama eto sterilni kamen odakle i zivotnje bjeze

[Duke]

But we don't disagree there. They were Romanized indigenous Balkanites (i.e. Illyrians and others), who were then again Slavicized, to make the modern Dalmatians.

he is talking about 16-17 century

[Duke]

anyways, oldest records, carved in stone from 8-9 century were either on old Croatian, Latin, or both, so even back then we had knowlage in Latin language.

[dralos]

dubrovnik had albanian presence very early this provves it
1285 in Dubrovnik (Ragusa) a document states: "Audivi unam vocem clamantem in monte in lingua albanesca" (I heard a voice crying in the mountains in the Albanian language)
Konstantin Jireček: Die Romanen in den Städten Dalmatiens während des Mittelalters, I, 42-44.

[Duke]

dubrovnik had albanian presence very early this provves it
1285 in Dubrovnik (Ragusa) a document states: "Audivi unam vocem clamantem in monte in lingua albanesca" (I heard a voice crying in the mountains in the Albanian language)
Konstantin Jireček: Die Romanen in den Städten Dalmatiens während des Mittelalters, I, 42-44.

we had Croatian Ban(Lord) in Albania, few sources prove it, one of them preserved as original, like Supetarski kartular

[dralos]

we had Croatian Ban(Lord) in Albania, few sources prove it, one of them preserved as original, like Supetarski kartular
show me quote or something like i did with mine claim

[Duke]

"Tempore transacto erat consuetudo in regno Croatorum: erant septem bani qui eligerant regati in Croacia, quando rex sine liberis moriebatur, scilicet banus Croaciae primus, banus bosniensis secundus, banus Sclavonie tercius, banus Posige quartus, banus Podrauie quintus, banus Albanie sestus, banus Sremi septimus...“

It was a election for a king of Croats in 12th. century

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/df/Sumpcart1pg.jpg/403px-Sumpcart1pg.jpg

[Insuperable]

But we don't disagree there. They were Romanized indigenous Balkanites (i.e. Illyrians and others), who were then again Slavicized, to make the modern Dalmatians.

But we can not know this, so why do you speak in such a defnite sense?


absolutely...just look at that unnatural shape of croatia....i am sure if bosnia was majority christian county that croatia would look natural with whole B&H included

Fixed


Maybe Dalmatia should have been given to Bosnia.

Why the f•ck why?:) You think that Bosniaks are native too?

Stop trolling! hehe

[dado]

maybe because it`s more natural that dalmatia belongs to bosnia as it natural mainland

[dralos]

it lists possesions in albania not that albania is ruled by it

[Duke]

it lists possesions in albania not that albania is ruled by it

LOL, are thick or what, it list 7 lords(banus) who participate in election of a new King of Croats, one of the lords is lord of Albania

[Loki]

But we can not know this, so why do you speak in such a defnite sense?


Well, someone must have been there before the language-carrying Slavs arrived :)

[Loki]

maybe because it`s more natural that dalmatia belongs to bosnia as it natural mainland

Bosnia needs a harbour for their future destroyers and frigates.

[Duke]

Well, someone must have been there before the language-carrying Slavs arrived :)

yes, people who arrived from same place we did

[Insuperable]

Well, someone must have been there before the language-carrying Slavs arrived :)

And someone indeed was - romanized native Balkan folk who were pushed southwards

[Insuperable]

yes, people who arrived from same place we did

What is your source for that?

[Duke]

And someone indeed was - romanized native Balkan folk who were pushed southwards

no one was pushed, most of local vlach languages(like Istrian) are mix of latin and slavic, no trace of any 3rd language

[dralos]

oke how does this means that we are croats and it doesnt even list the ethnicity of the king

[Duke]

oke how does this means that we are croats and it doesnt even list the ethnicity of the king

Croatian king isnt enough?

... and why do you think they would have need to specify lol.

[Arbërori]

I don't get it, were those Croatian Kings Slavic speaking or what?

[dralos]

Croatian king isnt enough?

... and why do you think they would have need to specify lol
you also had roman emperors of different ethnicities like illyrian forexample and there was never presence of croats in albania

[Duke]

I don't get it, were those Croatian Kings Slavic speaking or what?


yes, letter was in latin, because it was made for Pope, Pope was the only guy who could allow somebody to became King in Europe, in that time of age.
Story was, you could be king only before God, or something like that

[dralos]

yes, letter was in latin, because it was made for Pope, Pope was the guy who could allow somebody to became King in Europe, that time of age
The state was ruled mostly by native Croats of Trpimirović dynasty until 1102, when the crown passed into the hands of the Hungarian Árpád dynasty.
that letter was of 12century and this proves that the king was an hungarian and not a croat
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/143561/Croatia/223953/History#ref=ref476634

[Arbërori]

yes, letter was in latin, because it was made for Pope, Pope was the only guy who could allow somebody to became King in Europe, in that time of age.
Story was, you could be king only before God, or something like that

Did these Croats regard themselves as Illyrian or what? Were they Slavs or natives?

[dralos]

Did these Croats regard themselves as Illyrian or what? Were they Slavs or natives?
look at my post they,it explains it

[Duke]

Did these Croats regard themselves as Illyrian or what? Were they Slavs or natives?

Illyrians and Croats were used as synonyms for most of written history, until 20th. century.

[dralos]

Illyrians and Croats were used as synonyms for most of written history, until 20th. century.
The Illyrian movement (Serbo-Croatian: Ilirski pokret, Slovene: Ilirsko gibanje) was a pan-South-Slavist cultural and political campaign with roots in the early modern period, and revived by a group of young Croatian intellectuals during the first half of the 19th century, around the years of 1835–1849 (there is some disagreement regarding the official dates).[1] This movement aimed to create a Croatian national establishment in Austria-Hungary through linguistic and ethnic unity among South Slavs.

[Arbërori]

Illyrians and Croats were used as synonyms for most of written history, until 20th. century.

Yes, but they're two different ethnonyms.

[dralos]

Illyrians and Croats were used as synonyms for most of written history, until 20th. century.


The Illyrian name was revived officially during the Napoleonic Wars, when the French gave the name Illyrian Provinces to the Adriatic possessions acquired from the Austrian Empire in 1809. After 1813, when the territories were again included into the Austrian Empire, the Austrians kept the denomination and formed the Kingdom of Illyria, which comprised mostly the Slovene Lands.

[dado]

Bosnia needs a harbour for their future destroyers and frigates.

damn right ;)

[Duke]

The Illyrian movement (Serbo-Croatian: Ilirski pokret, Slovene: Ilirsko gibanje) was a pan-South-Slavist cultural and political campaign with roots in the early modern period, and revived by a group of young Croatian intellectuals during the first half of the 19th century, around the years of 1835–1849 (there is some disagreement regarding the official dates).[1] This movement aimed to create a Croatian national establishment in Austria-Hungary through linguistic and ethnic unity among South Slavs.

Croats were base and driving force for Illyrian movement, so such name was used, however Illyrian as synonym for Croat is much older

[dralos]

so duke i think our stand in claiming dalmatian lands as alboz is far more realistic than your claims on albania

[Loki]

Illyrians and Croats were used as synonyms for most of written history, until 20th. century.

So why do you call yourself Slavic then?

[Duke]

Yes, but they're two different ethnonyms.

They were not, first Latin-Croatian dictionary, 15th. century

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Bartol_Kasic_Institutiones_linguae_Illyricae.jpg

[Duke]

So why do you call yourself Slavic then?

why shouldn't I, its a linguistic designation

[dralos]

So why do you call yourself Slavic then?
he has no source for that and like i said before the illyrian movement in croatia became strong after this

The Illyrian name was revived officially during the Napoleonic Wars, when the French gave the name Illyrian Provinces to the Adriatic possessions acquired from the Austrian Empire in 1809. After 1813, when the territories were again included into the Austrian Empire, the Austrians kept the denomination and formed the Kingdom of Illyria, which comprised mostly the Slovene Lands.
and before there was mentioning in croatia but only slavic writers who had the ability because they were part of habsburg empire to write about illyrians but they dont identify with them

[Duke]

he has no source for that and like i said before the illyrian movement in croatia became strong after this

The Illyrian name was revived officially during the Napoleonic Wars, when the French gave the name Illyrian Provinces to the Adriatic possessions acquired from the Austrian Empire in 1809. After 1813, when the territories were again included into the Austrian Empire, the Austrians kept the denomination and formed the Kingdom of Illyria, which comprised mostly the Slovene Lands.
and before there was mentioning in croatia but only slavic writers who had the ability because they were part of habsburg empire to write about illyrians but they dont identify with them

We have ton of material where it states Croatian=Illyrian, even the book, which was printed in Vatican collage department is from 15 century.

You are blowing in the wind...

[dralos]

yes croatian=illyrian while illyrian=albanian

you people had the luxury ti say such stuff since you had it easy with the hapsburg and were writing stories and other stuff while we had no time for that being under ottomans and anyway when you speak slavic means that you didnt really want to be illyrian while we want it

[Arbërori]

Actually, most of Croats are also of Slavic heritage and this is not only linguistically speaking. Technically, those Romanized people could've been anything, from Illyrians to Venetians, so you don't make any sense.

[Duke]

Actually, most of Croats are also of Slavic heritage and this is not only linguistically speaking. Technically, those Romanized people could've been anything, from Illyrians to Venetians, so you don't make any sense.

Croats have very little genetic conection with Albanians, we did asimilated previus people, but they were not related to albos, so it seems

[Duke]

yes croatian=illyrian while illyrian=albanian

you people had the luxury ti say such stuff since you had it easy with the hapsburg and were writing stories and other stuff while we had no time for that being under ottomans and anyway when you speak slavic means that you didnt really want to be illyrian while we want it

It doesent matter what we wont, i am just saying how it was, i dont care for albania

[dralos]

Actually, most of Croats are also of Slavic heritage and this is not only linguistically speaking. Technically, those Romanized people could've been anything, from Illyrians to Venetians, so you don't make any sense.
true croatia was a very multicultural country at that time and the slavic names can be easy explained by the slavization made by majority who were slavs

[Duke]

true croatia was a very multicultural country at that time and the slavic names can be easy explained by the slavization made by majority who were slavs

Most known corvesion of names that are noted on these parts were from Slavic to Latin.

Example
Antun Vrančić=>Antonio Veranzio

[Insuperable]

Got a headache because of Loki's trolling :lol: and nonsense being said in this thread
ta ta

[dralos]

Most known corvesion of names that are noted on these parts were from Slavic to Latin.

Example
Antun Vrančić=>Antonio Veranzio
source?

[Duke]

source?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antun_Vran%C4%8Di%C4%87

just a google would be enough :picard2:

[dralos]

happend both ways
Vodnjan was known as early as Roman times as Vicus Attinianum