Race and culture are not the same thing, but culture should be race-specific, discuss

[Fortis in Arduis]

A) Please provide, with a brief explanation as to why it is high, or low:


An example of high culture which is monoracial.

An example of low culture which is monoracial.

An example of low culture which is multiracial.

An example of high culture which is multiracial.


B) Which do you think is better, and why?


Low culture which is monoracial.

High culture which is multiracial.

[Oresai]

I like this topic. :D
and want to give it a lengthy response when I can, but just wanted to say, yes, I do believe at points in history, culture was race specific.
From early days in any peoples history, culture grew out of being landscape specific, with rites, events, and traditions burgeoning out of their relationship, spiritual and creative, with the landscape and geography they were tied to.
Surely, for example, the mountains and meadows of Europe gave rise to very specific music, displaying the nature, beliefs and continuing creativity of each race? The fact that such creative acts would contain references to the spirituality of their own group of people, pertaining to their own gods, for example, to the genius locii of the place of their birth, wrapped up in the lore of their own, specific, people, their race, with tales that only held meaning to their own kind....well, isn`t that race specific?
Artwork, literature, likewise, both great and `small`, aristocratic and highbrow and more earthy and peasant, and can`t we even now tell often, which country and which nationality the great artworks spring from? Even to having their own distinctive styles peculiar to no other peoples?
I will give examples when I can trawl them from the net ;) :D
Or in the culture of dress, when we have distinctive national costume, often with their roots in the landscape and lore too, of the race....isn`t that a specific thing? Many national costumes have their roots in the working dress of a race, or are symbolic of that race`s belief system, stylised and elaborated.
To be honest, Fortuis, I never thought of culture as `high` or `low` before...:redface_002:
If you look at, say, the artwork and jewellery of Africa, and the same of the Celtic lands, to me there`s no doubt each is race specific, the beautiful knotwork of Ireland and Scotland, for example, having a particular and immediate recognition to anyone of the Celtic peoples (ok, I know that strictly, the Celtic peoples are not races, but still.....)
and that knotwork has roots in spiritual and mythic belief particular to those people.
Um, making sense? :)
Gonna come back to this later :D

[SwordoftheVistula]

I think 'high culture' is less likely to be race-specific, as it usually originates amongst the elites of society, people more likely to be well educated and traveled and thus exposed to influences from other parts of the world. Often such influences are even held out as a form of sophistication: incorporation of foreign elements provides evidence of the creator's knowledge of foreign cultures.

'low culture' seems to be more seperated along geographic, religious, and other lines, and therefore would be more race-specific insofar as geographic, religious, and other boundaries correlate with racial and ethnic lines.

[Fortis in Arduis]

An example of high culture which is monoracial:

Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga

http://www.yoga-ayurveda.at/fileadmin/user_upload/bilder/background/misoreschool.jpg

Krishnamacharya is here seen applying an adjustment to one his child students.

For some years the teaching of Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga, a hatha yoga system which was developed in Mysore, was restricted to local men of the Brahmin caste. It is a subtle and refined cultural form, derived from classical hatha yoga and the training techniques of the British Army in Mysore. Practicioners required great discipline and dedication.




An example of low culture which is monoracial.

Animal sacrifice in Bali

http://blog.baliwww.com/wp-content/photos/turtle.jpg

A turtle, ready for sacrifice.

Animal sacrifice, which may involve animals ranging from chickens to tigers, is an obligation in religious ceremonies in Bali, Indonesia. It is a low, wasteful and cruel cultural form comparable with low-caste Hinduism in India and is associated with the worship of demon gods.




An example of low culture which is multiracial.

Unite Against Fascism

http://www.tynesideuniteagainstfascism.moonfruit.com/communities/1/004/005/795/261/images/4513791105.jpg

This is a Unite Against Fascism pop concert featuring degenerate musical performers.

Unite Against Fascism is a pressure group, which primarily focuses on trying to destroy the electoral success of the British National Party. It is composed of multi-racial political groupings (communist, socialist, capitalist) which are materialistic and therefore evil. It is a low cultural form.




An example of high culture which is multiracial.

Association Football

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Football_iu_1996.jpg

An attacking player (No 10) attempts to kick the ball past the goalkeeper to score a goal.

Association football, more commonly known as football or soccer, is a team sport played between two teams of eleven players, and is widely considered to be the most popular sport in the world. Competiton encourages discipline, health and good sportsmanship. It is therefore a high cultural form. Association football is not restricted to participants of any particular racial group but is enjoyed by players all races, all over the world.


Which do you think is better, and why?


Low culture which is monoracial.


or


High culture which is multiracial.



Low culture which is monoracial is better than high culture which is multiracial.

This is because it can be adapted more specifically to the biological and local environmental needs of the participants and so the aspirants can reach greater heights of group and personal achievement than they otherwise would, irrespective of whether the cultural form is high, or low.

If you can, please answer the questions in the format that I have asked them.

[Oresai]

Thanks for explaining, it makes sense to me now. :)
In which case I think high culture is better, simply because it focuses on matters of intellectual, spiritual and aesthetic depth and enlightenment. Low culture appears to me to be herd driven, and of the kind of mentality which Russian Philosopher mentioned in another thread.
As an example, here you have me, a definate peasant :D but belonging to a culture birthed in the races which made up the Celts, with their lore, myth and legend contributing to the whole heritage. Inspired, e.g., by heroic tales, young men would emulate those heroes and act accordingly, setting up elite warrior groups, overlooked by the bards and druids and lawgivers themselves moulding the culture of the times. Into those groups must surely have developed cultural attributes, art, music and games, etc, particular to the races which inspired them.
By maintaining an interest in my ancestors and how they lived, worked and `played`, I plug into their culture and so in a tiny way, help keep the heritage going, yes?
Sadly, too many Celts now are hooked instead into foreign cultures, notably that of black America, imported into the British Isles. :(
Low culture seems not only herd driven but built purely upon instant gratification, shock value and motivated by manipulation of masses. It has no intrinsic value, no lasting worth, unlike the wares of high culture which, even to outsiders looking in, have value in the form of beauty or heritage, or are instructional, intellectual or spiritual.
I would definately say that monoracial high culture must be the most valuable, for the reasons above, or multiracial in the form of the collective cultures of the Celtic tribes and other racially cohesive groups.
The parts of these I would personally say have most value would be music, art and spirituality in the form of Sagas, myths and lore, handed down and most definately race specific which inspire the peoples such belongs to, to live their lives well because of them. Hope this makes sense.
I`m a pretty `lowbrow` person not used to intelligent conversation y`know! :redface_002::writing_thinking:

[Fortis in Arduis]

I would definitely say that monoracial high culture must be the most valuable, for the reasons above, or multiracial in the form of the collective cultures of the Celtic tribes and other racially cohesive groups.

I see what you are saying, but those Celtic tribes were not multiracial within themselves, and so they were not multiracial cultures.

I was hoping to stretch peoples' minds a bit, like Miss Jean Brodie. :wink


I`m a pretty `lowbrow` person not used to intelligent conversation y`know!

This is humourous self-deprecation, because you clearly are, but I sincerely wish for posters to answer the questions as they would on any other question thread, for the benefit of the process.

REALLY! :)

You have 'full marks' from Miss Brodie here, but I wanted to see your process.

[Oresai]

Things I class as high culture that are race specific include.... :)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dutch_painters

http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/article_index/e/early_celtic_or_la_t%C3%A8ne_art.aspx


http://www.about-germany.org/music/music1.php

re music..for those with an ear for it, I believe they can tell without knowing the name or origin of the composer, which country the music comes from, so this means, to me, that each country and perhaps each race has a specific style of music that may be birthed in the heritage of their racial subconsciousness.

http://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/PearlyKingsQueens.htm
National costumes in general. :)

And low culture....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_hooliganism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_marriage

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-505796/The-unspeakable-practice-female-circumcision-thats-destroying-young-womens-lives-Britain.html

http://www.diggingout.org/badger_baiting.html

[Oresai]

Other examples would be, low multiracial culture, the modern cult of celebrity worship. Ditto the cult of `keeping up with the Joneses`, ie the cult of status and greed without an understanding of why status was important in the past.
The culture of knife and gun gangs in inner cities, compared to the old warrior elite groups, maybe no less brutal but in my eyes, a damn sight more honourable. ;)

Guess what I`m trying to illustrate in the difference between the two is...(bear with me please! :D)
monoracial high culture would have hero worship, but those heroes would be people who had acted to benefit the race or community. Or who would have deity links, such as descendancy or allegiance to a specific deity particular to that race or tribal group.
Compare that to the multiracial low culture worship of the celebrity, looked up to and adored simply by dint of how they look or their wealth status alone.

The multiracial high culture society of elite warrior groups, again, these acted largely on behalf of community or race and seldom put themselves outside the law of said people.
And I contrast that with the multiracial low culture knife and gun groups with no values beyond that of terror for it`s own sake or personal greed.

(Am I getting warm yet? :D)

[Beorn]

An example of 'high culture' which is mono-racial.

http://www.ebeijing.gov.cn/BeijingInfo/NewsUpdate/OlympicNews/W020080813341627446557.jpg

The Ancient Olympic Games, originally referred to as simply the Olympic Games (Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language): Ολυμπιακοί Αγώνες; Olympiakoi Agones) were a series of athletic competitions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletic_competition) held between various city-states (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City-state) of Ancient Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece). They began in 776 BC in Olympia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympia,_Greece), Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece), and were celebrated until 393 AD[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Olympic_Games#cite_note-Encarta-Ancient-0) The prizes were olive wreaths, palm branches and woollen ribbons.


An example of 'low culture' which is mono-racial.

http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/00158/images/kkk1920%27srally.jpg

Ku Klux Klan (KKK) is the name of several past and present secret domestic militant organizations in the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States), originating in the southern states, that are best known for advocating white supremacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_supremacy) and acting as terrorists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorists) while hidden behind conical hats, masks and white robes. The KKK has a record of terrorism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan#cite_note-1), violence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence), and lynching (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching) to intimidate, murder, and oppress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppress) African Americans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American), Jews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew) and other minorities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority) and to intimidate and oppose Roman Catholics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Church) and labor unions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_union).


An example of 'high culture' which is multi-racial.

http://images-cdn01.associatedcontent.com/image/A8172/81722/300_81722.gif

Christianity (from the word Xριστός "Christ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ)") is a monotheistic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheistic_religion#Christian_view) religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#cite_note-Monotheism-0) centered on the life and teachings of Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus) as presented in the New Testament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_view_on_Jesus%27_life).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#cite_note-1)
Its followers, known as Christians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_%28word%29),[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#cite_note-name-2) believe that Jesus is the only begotten (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_3:16)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#cite_note-3)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#cite_note-4) Son of God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_God) and the Messiah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah) (Christ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ)) prophesied (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_prophecy) in the Hebrew Bible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_Bible) (the part of scripture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scripture) common to Christianity and Judaism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism)). To Christians, Jesus Christ is a teacher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teacher), the model (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_model) of a virtuous (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue) life, the revealer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revelation) of God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Christianity), as well as an incarnation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarnation_%28Christianity%29) of God, and most importantly the savior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvation) of humanity who suffered, died, and was resurrected (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection) to bring about salvation from sin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin#Christian_views_of_sin).[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#cite_note-McGrath4-5) Christians maintain that Jesus ascended (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascension_of_Jesus) into heaven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven), and most denominations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_denomination) teach that Jesus will return (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Coming) to judge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_judgement) the living and the dead, granting everlasting life (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortality) to his followers. Christians call the message of Jesus Christ the Gospel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_news_%28Christianity%29) ("good news") and hence label the written accounts of his ministry as gospels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel).


An example of 'low culture' which is multi-racial.


http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00357/england_players_357863a.jpg



Association football, more commonly known as football or soccer, is a team sport played between two teams of eleven players, and is widely considered to be the most popular sport in the world. Competiton encourages discipline, health and good sportsmanship. It is therefore a high cultural form. Association football is not restricted to participants of any particular racial group but is enjoyed by players all races, all over the world.

[Beorn]

B) Which do you think is better, and why?


Low culture which is mono-racial.
High culture which is multiracial.



I would say mono-racial. It is still homogeneous and can be easily subjected to adaptation.
It can be adapted to better represent and compliment the race it belongs to.

Every culture starts off somewhere.