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Baluarte
04-12-2013, 07:21 PM
Portugal’s elder statesman calls for 'Argentine-style' default

Portugal's leading elder statesman has called on the country to copy Argentina and default on its debt to avert economic collapse, a move that would lead to near certain ejection from the euro.

Mario Soares, who steered the country to democracy after the Salazar dictatorship, said all political forces should unite to “bring down the government” and repudiate the austerity policies of the EU-IMF Troika.

“Portugal will never be able to pay its debts, however much it impoverishes itself. If you can’t pay, the only solution is not to pay. When Argentina was in crisis it didn’t pay. Did anything happen? No, nothing happened," he told Antena 1.
The former socialist premier and president said the Portuguese government has become a servant of German Chancellor Angela Merkel, meekly doing whatever it is told.

“In their eagerness to do the bidding of Senhora Merkel, they have sold everything and ruined this country. In two years this government has destroyed Portugal,” he said.

Dario Perkins from Lombard Street Research said a hard-nosed default would force Portugal out of the euro. “It would create incredible animosity,” he said. “Germany would be alarmed that other countries might do the same so it would take a very tough line.”

Mr Perkins said all the peripheral states are “deeply scared” of being forced out of EMU. “They fear their economies would collapse, which is ridiculous. But in the end voters are going to elect politicians who refuse to along with austerity as we are seeing in Italy, and the EU will lose control,” he said.

Raoul Ruparel from Open Europe said Portugal had reached the limits of austerity. “The previous political consensus in parliament has evaporated. As so often in this crisis, the eurozone is coming up against the full force of national democracy.”

The rallying cry by Mr Soares comes a week after Portugal’s top court ruled that pay and pension cuts for public workers are illegal, forcing premier Pedro Passos Coelho to search for new cuts. The ruling calls into question the government’s whole policy “internal devaluation” aimed at lowering labour costs.

A leaked report from the Troika warned that the country is at risk of a debt spiral, with financing needs surging to €15bn by 2015, a third higher than the levels that precipitated the debt crisis in 2011. “There is substantial funding risk,” it said.

In a rare piece of good news, eurozone finance ministers agreed on Friday to extend repayment of rescue loans for Portugal and Ireland by a further seven years, reducing the pressure for a swift return to markets.
Brussels said both countries are “still highly vulnerable” to forces beyond their control, and deserve a “strong signal” of support. Critics say it is too little, too late. Fast-moving events on the ground now have a will of their own.

Vasconcelos
04-12-2013, 07:32 PM
Soares is a senile idiot, no one in his right mind should care with what he has to say.

Damião de Góis
04-12-2013, 08:22 PM
Soares is a senile idiot, no one in his right mind should care with what he has to say.

And an african diamond dealer to boot.

Baluarte
04-12-2013, 08:41 PM
I really don't know the person, and I take it you guys are telling the truth, but still, doesn't change the fact that this position should considered and discussed more often.

Albion
04-13-2013, 12:02 AM
I'm not sure if it's a good idea though. What if countries with huge debts like Japan or America suddenly decided they'd default? Of course much of it is to be paid off in the long term (in theory), but countries have to show a level of responsibility. If countries default then no one lends to them and they have little room to maneuver if they do actually need extra cash (other than through raising taxes).

Baluarte
04-13-2013, 11:01 AM
Most of the debt in Europe is held either mostly by Anglo-American banks or German/French institutions closely linked to Wall Street/City of London.
I don't see any moral inconvenient in putting a stop to their usury.

Lusos
04-13-2013, 11:10 AM
If we don't default now.
This will happen again and again and again.

Vasconcelos
04-13-2013, 11:15 AM
The problem is that if we default no one will loan us money again in a long time, and you have no idea how critical this is for a small country such as ours. Defaulting is a very bad idea.

Lusos
04-13-2013, 11:20 AM
^
So in short.

There's no where to turn.
The UE was/is nothing but a trap.

Baluarte
04-13-2013, 11:30 AM
Hmmm....I don't believe in hopeless scenarios. There's always something that can be done.

Maybe recurring to the new "Bank of the BRICS" that is actively seeking to counter the influence of the IMF?

Vasconcelos
04-13-2013, 11:31 AM
^
So in short.

There's no where to turn.
The UE was/is nothing but a trap.

Exactly, we have to bear with it until this crisis passes. Only afterwards can we make big decisions, like dropping from the Euro, and so on - eventhough at that time everyone will be happy and the critical changes that the country needs will be forsaken. The usual "só fazem algo quando lhes aperta o rabo".

Lusos
04-13-2013, 12:26 PM
Exactly, we have to bear with it until this crisis passes. Only afterwards can we make big decisions, like dropping from the Euro, and so on - eventhough at that time everyone will be happy and the critical changes that the country needs will be forsaken. The usual "só fazem algo quando lhes aperta o rabo".



1-How long will It last?

Who decides that the crisis is finished?

2-Are local Governments allowed to make big decisions?

Why do Governments have to lose sovereignty over their own Nation?(To avoid the above?)

3-E quem lhes aperta o ânus?(Este povo apático,feliz pela sua extrema civilidade?)

Catrau
04-13-2013, 12:34 PM
I used to think that we must pay all our debts but after I got a reality check und understood that that money never existed, it was electronically created and that we are paying speculative interest rates over that... I say, what the fuck, do not pay it. Nobody gets poor if we don't pay it, since that money came from nowhere. If someone is trying to punish us, well, fuck them too.

I wonder why that fucking german finance minister comments the verdict of our supreme court instead of the EU commission? What the fuck does he has to do with it? Why don't he stick his nose to his own business (maybe that is what he is doing)? Do we need more to understand that germany is controlling the EU to it's own will and nobody challenge those fuckers?? This wasn't supposed to happen when the EU was created!!! We can't bend over in front of no one, we shouldn't be friends we people that is showing a growing antipathy towards us because we, the people, are opening our eyes and understanding that this isn't, after all a question of money. It never existed, it is a question of interest rates, and those are the ones killing us and the main responsible for the western world growing debt crisis. And more, now I feel that I owe nothing to germans, for example. Supposedly we had a debt to banks, not to citizens or states... THINK ABOUT IT!!!

Lusos
04-13-2013, 12:46 PM
I used to think that we must pay all our debts but after I got a reality check und understood that that money never existed, it was electronically created and that we are paying speculative interest rates over that... I say, what the fuck, do not pay it. Nobody gets poor if we don't pay it, since that money came from nowhere. If someone is trying to punish us, well, fuck them too.

I wonder why that fucking german finance minister comments the verdict of our supreme court instead of the EU commission? What the fuck does he has to do with it? Why don't he stick his nose to his own business (maybe that is what he is doing)? Do we need more to understand that germany is controlling the EU to it's own will and nobody challenge those fuckers?? This wasn't supposed to happen when the EU was created!!! We can't bend over in front of no one, we shouldn't be friends we people that is showing a growing antipathy towards us because we, the people, are opening our eyes and understanding that this isn't, after all a question of money. It never existed, it is a question of interest rates, and those are the ones killing us and the main responsible for the western world growing debt crisis. And more, now I feel that I owe nothing to germans, for example. Supposedly we had a debt to banks, not to citizens or states... THINK ABOUT IT!!!


We can't get poorer then this so fuck It.
Now getting poorer while making other's richer with our sacrifices.Death to all of them.I have hate for almost all of the "New Europe"
Especially because now more then ever It became very clear ,what they all think of us.
I'm not a fucking Hippocratic cunt.

Who's bending it's our politicians.(And we bend to them)
And don't really like Soares and all his troop.
But at least he always showed balls.

RussiaPrussia
04-13-2013, 01:07 PM
The problem is that if we default no one will loan us money again in a long time, and you have no idea how critical this is for a small country such as ours. Defaulting is a very bad idea.

Argentine was also a small country. And wasnt taking debt the main problem in the first place?

Lusos
04-13-2013, 01:15 PM
I have a dream.

31706

Vasconcelos
04-13-2013, 03:18 PM
Argentine was also a small country. And wasnt taking debt the main problem in the first place?

Argentina has FOUR TIMES the population of Portugal.

Albion
04-13-2013, 08:26 PM
Most of the debt in Europe is held either mostly by Anglo-American banks or German/French institutions closely linked to Wall Street/City of London.
I don't see any moral inconvenient in putting a stop to their usury.

I don't care about the banks, I care about the effect on Portugal, it'll be another Argentina.

Lusos
04-13-2013, 08:50 PM
I don't care about the banks, I care about the effect on Portugal, it'll be another Argentina.

At least,slaves of ourself.

Lusos
04-13-2013, 08:50 PM
BUMP

HispaniaSagrada
04-14-2013, 05:46 AM
I confess that I don't know about the Euro but in the USA currency (federal reserve notes) appears to be backed by absolutely nothing as far as I can tell. It's just funny monopoly money.

Portugal should hold on to her gold reserves.

The trouble people get into trying to keep up with the Joneses.

Baluarte
04-15-2013, 02:39 PM
^^ It's the same.
The Euro has a double problem:

First and foremost, it is a currency that is supposed to represent with very different characteristics. Whether it is labour market, technological transmission, industrial output levels or technological transfer. That makes it very prone to shocks.
This part is very well known to everybody

What is not known to people is the second part: The ECB has blindly accepted the post 1970s Bretton Woods system, where the world just accepts dollars and pretends it represents real reserve value. Just like the Bank of England and the Bank of Japan it hasn't started to look for alternatives, like the BRICS have.