Which Sicilian Aprician is the Most Typically "Sicilian-looking" Sicilian?

[alfieb]

There are others that we do not have photographs for, so the battle will consist of Sikeliot vs. Sicilianu101 vs. Alfieb. All three members have given permission for these three photographs to be used in this thread. [Edit: photos removed]

Sicilianu101 (Messinese [Eastern Sicilian])

Sikeliot (Messinese [Eastern Sicilian])

Alfieb (Palermitan and Trapanese [Western Sicilian])

[alfieb]

I don't even have Sicily in my name like those two, so I'm at a distinct disadvantage.

BUT, two of my three photos were taken in Sicily, so there! (Palermo and Messina, to be exact)

[Sikeliot]

Depends on what people think Sicilian looks like.

If people think it's Greek, I win.
If people think it's Levantine, Sicilianu wins.
If people think it's neither but just an ambiguous swarthoid, then you win.

[Baluarte]

Hmmm....I'd say Sicilianu and yourself are quite typical, but I'll choose Sicilianu since he has a distinctive Greek/Med Islander look, whereas you can fit in continental Italy and maybe the Southwest Europe

Not Sikeliot

[Peyrol]

Alfie and then you, even if you IMHO look more lucanian or apulian.

[Maleficent]

Alfieb looks distinctly Southern Italian/Sicilian.
Sikeliot looks Greek.
Sicilianu looks Jewish, Palestinian, Cypriot, Lebanese, or Syrian.

[Sikeliot]

I personally think alfieb looks more Sardinian or Iberian and not Sicilian.
I think the remaining two of us fit better, but depending on whether one thinks Sicilian looks more Greek or more Levantine.



Alfieb looks distinctly Southern Italian/Sicilian.

You don't think he looks more Iberian?

[Baluarte]

I think I could pass as Sicilian too :P

[Virtuous]

Cazz nun sono elegibile per partecipare :|

[Sikeliot]

I think I could pass as Sicilian too :P

Kind of.

[Sikeliot]

Cazz nun sono elegibile per partecipare :|

If you wanted to you should have said so and we would have included you.

[Newsboy]

Alfieb, you look the most typical Sicilian. Your user name is not very relevant. Not all Sicilians resemble Greeks (in fact, most Western Sicilians don't). It's just a silly stereotype. Sikeliot has a pan-Southern European look. Sicilianu looks rather exotic.

[Sikeliot]

Well I guess people think Sicilian looks Sardinian and Iberian then, if they think alfieb looks it more than the other two of us.

[Lux Aeterna]

I may not be completely objective, but I voted for the alpinoid just to show my support :D :thumbs

[Baluarte]

If I didn't know him, I'd think alfieb is Italian rather than Spanish. Don't get why you say that...visit the terrain.

[alfieb]

People who don't know our history would probably vote against Malta out of ignorance anyway. :picard2:

[Anthropologique]

I personally think alfieb looks more Sardinian or Iberian and not Sicilian.
I think the remaining two of us fit better, but depending on whether one thinks Sicilian looks more Greek or more Levantine.

Not typical for Iberian. He looks Sicilian or Calabrian, IMO




You don't think he looks more Iberian?

[Anthropologique]

^^

Posting mistake.

He looks Sicilian or Calabrian. Not typical Iberian.

[Peyrol]

I personally think alfieb looks more Sardinian or Iberian and not Sicilian.
I think the remaining two of us fit better, but depending on whether one thinks Sicilian looks more Greek or more Levantine.




You don't think he looks more Iberian?

PS. random people in the streets of Palermo




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K3ClXCNRBg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vea7bGroSNY

[Baluarte]

^^

Posting mistake.

He looks Sicilian or Calabrian. Not typical Iberian.

Agree with you.
I do think from Rome southwards he passes perfectly.

[kabeiros]

We should make a composite of the three of you, that would be the most stereotypical Sicilian face in the world. :D

[Sikeliot]

The people in the Palermo video look a bit Ashkenazi ranging to Northern Italian and East Med.

[Sikeliot]

If I didn't know him, I'd think alfieb is Italian rather than Spanish. Don't get why you say that...visit the terrain.

That sort of nose and facial structure is more common in Iberia.

[Baluarte]

Sikeliot has Polish and Portuguese blood. It shows he's not pure South Italian.

[Sikeliot]

Sikeliot has Polish and Portuguese blood. It shows he's not pure South Italian.

And I look less Iberian than does alfieb. I even have 1/8 Sardinian in there too and I still don't look West Med.

[Peyrol]

The people in the Palermo video look a bit Ashkenazi ranging to Northern Italian and East Med.

They absorbed people from all the island (and some tunisians) since the '60s, so it isn't surprising.

[alfieb]

And I look less Iberian than does alfieb. I even have 1/8 Sardinian in there too and I still don't look West Med.

The Greek is strong in this one.

[Baluarte]

Probably. Still doesn't change the fact alfieb looks more Italic than Spanish. And having a large amount of acquaintances and friends from both places I can assure you that.

[Anthropologique]

And I look less Iberian than does alfieb. I even have 1/8 Sardinian in there too and I still don't look West Med.

Alfieb doesn't look Iberian to me.

[Sikeliot]

The Greek is strong in this one.

My look or my personality?

[Sikeliot]

Alfieb doesn't look Iberian to me.

He does. Most Sicilians and other people from that area (Calabria, Malta) have convex features, and flat features and wide-spaced eyes are much more common amongst Iberians, Sardinians, and even Berbers.

[Anthropologique]

Yes, VERY RECENT admixture.

[alfieb]

My look or my personality?

Your look. I'd never guess you as Portuguese, and I'd figure you for a Polack even less.

[Anthropologique]

He does. Most Sicilians and other people from that area (Calabria, Malta) have convex features, and flat features and wide-spaced eyes are much more common amongst Iberians, Sardinians, and even Berbers.

That may be but overall I just can't place him in Spain or Portugal.

[Baluarte]

God x.x

His jawline, lips and cheeks are more Italian than Spanish. I'm sure any other person from Portugal/Spain or even France will think the same.

[Sikeliot]

Your look. I'd never guess you as Portuguese, and I'd figure you for a Polack even less.

But you look more Iberian than me, so by converse, you should theoretically look less Sicilian.

[Lux Aeterna]

An advantage alfie has is the backslick hair - very Sicilian mafioso style :cool:

[alfieb]

An advantage alfie has is the backslick hair - very Sicilian mafioso style :cool:

I think it's the widow's peak that makes it work.

[Sikeliot]

If going by pure genetics, Sicilianu101 is the only one of us who clusters where Sicilians should cluster, so it logically should be him.

I'd like to do a thread seeing which of us passes best in Iberia too.

[alfieb]

You'd win in Greece and Elbonia. He'd win in Swarthistan, and I'd win anywhere in Western Europe. :nod:

Turkey is the one I'm not sure of.

[Baluarte]

Sicilianu clusters the best?
I said it! I win



:whoo::whoo::whoo::whoo::whoo::whoo:

[Peyrol]

Alfie is also the only one who can speak sicilian (and obviously standard italian)...vero Fredo? Bisogna imparare e conoscere la lingua madre. :p

[Newsboy]

If going by pure genetics, Sicilianu101 is the only one of us who clusters where Sicilians should cluster, so it logically should be him.

I'd like to do a thread seeing which of us passes best in Iberia too.

Yeah, it'd be interesting to know which one of you three fit best in Iberia. Some might say no, but I think many Sicilians and S. Italians can at least pass for atypical Iberians.

[alfieb]

Sicilianu speaks sicilianu (lol.) as well. As does Malta. Sunphq only speaks Italian. Sikeliot only English.

[Sikeliot]

You'd win in Greece and Elbonia. He'd win in Swarthistan, and I'd win anywhere in Western Europe. :nod:


Then I can't imagine why anyone would think you look more Sicilian if I look more Greek, since more of us look Greek than Western European.

Although I also think of the three, you fit best in the Maghreb.

[Sikeliot]

Yeah, it'd be interesting to know which one of you three fit best in Iberia. Some might say no, but I think many Sicilians and S. Italians can at least pass for atypical Iberians.

I think that the ones who look "generically Med" can pass in both places (people like Penelope Cruz and Antonio Banderas), but horsy looking Iberians and woggy looking Sicilians cannot be confused.

[alfieb]

Did he just say I looked like a horse? :mmmm:

[Sikeliot]

Did he just say I looked like a horse? :mmmm:

No. :lol: You don't look horsy. But some Iberians do. When I say you look Iberian I mean the pseudo North African looking Berid types, not the horsy Atlantids who look like pigmented Brits.

I'd think you looked more Sicilian if you had a pointy nose.

[Peyrol]

Sicilianu speaks sicilianu (lol.) as well. As does Malta. Sunphq only speaks Italian. Sikeliot only English.

...and what about the marranzanu? Did you ever played a solo like this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se9RaJGgO0k

One of my sicilian classmates in Highschool gave me one of these instruments....i like a lot this sound.

[Newsboy]

I think that the ones who look "generically Med" can pass in both places (people like Penelope Cruz and Antonio Banderas), but horsy looking Iberians and woggy looking Sicilians cannot be confused.

I agree with you. Pan-Mediterranean types like Penelope Cruz, Antonio Banderas, and perhaps Inma Cuesta (look her up) can pass as any Mediterranean European, even Greeks!

[Sikeliot]

It's the horsy Atlantid types who can't pass elsewhere in Southern Europe.

[Peyrol]

1:15 best part...:laugh:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlPLybrRnp0

[kabeiros]

I agree with you. Pan-Mediterranean types like Penelope Cruz, Antonio Banderas, and perhaps Inma Cuesta (look her up) can pass as any Mediterranean European, even Greeks! A lot of Spanish people can pass as Greeks, not just the swarthy types that you mention. I don't get the surprise that ''even Greeks'' indicates

[Sikeliot]

Where are Tyfani, Linet, TehSaint and the other Greeks? I want their opinion.

[alfieb]

...and what about the marranzanu? Did you ever played a solo like this?

In English, I think they call the marranzanu the jew harp.

I only learned keyboard, recorder, trumpet. School band required the latter two, and my love of Guns N' Roses provoked the first.

[Newsboy]

It's the horsy Atlantid types who can't pass elsewhere in Southern Europe.

Those horsy types would pass as Welsh, Irish, and some Scottish. Even horsy Iberians can't fit in England, at least not typical.

[Damião de Góis]

A lot of Spanish people can pass as Greeks, not just the swarthy types that you mention. I don't get the surprise that ''even Greeks'' indicates

Perhaps because Greece is far away?

[Sikeliot]

A lot of Spanish people can pass as Greeks, not just the swarthy types that you mention. I don't get the surprise that ''even Greeks'' indicates

Atlanto-Med Iberians and Pontid Greeks can be confused for one another, too. Even if a trained eye can tell the difference.

[kabeiros]

1:15 best part...:laugh: Sicilians know how to protect their women ;)

[Newsboy]

Alex DeLarge, Greece is far away from Portugal, yes. But Spain (especially Catalonia, Valencian community, and Balearic Islands), not really. Greece and Spain are geographically not that far away. Greece is closer to Spain than Iran, Iraq, most of Syria, Armenia, Azerbaijan and even Turkish Kurdistan!

[alfieb]

Sicilians know how to protect their women ;)

Na carusa siciliana nun ha bisognu ri prutezzioni.

[kabeiros]

Na carusa siciliana nun ha bisognu ri prutezzioni. Does this mean ''Sicilians know how to protect their woman''?

[alfieb]

Fun Fact: Autonomists and Secessionists in Sicily now refer to themselves "sicilianisti".

Therefore, the poll could technically be "Which Sicilian sicilianist is the Sicilian-est?" :lol:


Does this mean ''Sicilians know how to protect their woman''?

No. A Sicilian woman does not need protection.

[Baluarte]

Funny enough I understood it all :)

[alfieb]

A Sicilian woman does not need protection.

Actually, I had wrote girl. Fimmina is woman.

[Peyrol]

Does this mean ''Sicilians know how to protect their woman''?

No, it mean ''a sicilian girl don't need any protection''


Let's compare sicilian, standard italian and piemontese traslations:

Sicilian: Na carusa siciliana nun ha bisognu ri prutezzioni.
Standard Italian: Una donna siciliana non ha bisogno di protezioni
Piemontese: Na fomna sicula as pas bisogna'nen prutesiouns.

...how amazing are our internal linguistical differences...

[Mortimer]

Sicilianu id say.

[dralos]

alfieb offc he has that killer look :p

[Pallantides]

Inquiring Mind, but since he is not actually Sicilian I guess he don't count.

[Sikeliot]

Btw in alfieb's classification thread, most people did pick Sicilian and Greek so I seem to be the only one adamantly maintaining he looks so Iberian.

[Newsboy]

Btw in alfieb's classification thread, most people did pick Sicilian and Greek so I seem to be the only one adamantly maintaining he looks so Iberian.

You're not the only one. I think Alfieb looks Iberian too. Sure Anthropologique disagrees, but he's just a bit nationalistic. I don't think Alfieb looks Greek. He doesn't look North African either. He has a unique Italian look found in the Central and Southern parts of Italy (Italic peoples).

[alfieb]

Btw in alfieb's classification thread, most people did pick Sicilian and Greek so I seem to be the only one adamantly maintaining he looks so Iberian.

I did get a few non-troll North African votes, and some Spanish as well. What's clear is that I don't look very Levantine, while Sicilianu101 does.

[kabeiros]

No, it mean ''a sicilian girl don't need any protection''


Let's compare sicilian, standard italian and piemontese traslations:

Sicilian: Na carusa siciliana nun ha bisognu ri prutezzioni.
Standard Italian: Una donna siciliana non ha bisogno di protezioni
Piemontese: Na fomna sicula as pas bisogna'nen prutesiouns.

...how amazing are our internal linguistical differences...
Is Sicilian closer to standard Italian than Piemontese?

[Damião de Góis]

Btw in alfieb's classification thread, most people did pick Sicilian and Greek so I seem to be the only one adamantly maintaining he looks so Iberian.


You're not the only one. I think Alfieb looks Iberian too. Sure Anthropologique disagrees, but he's just a bit nationalistic. I don't think Alfieb looks Greek. He doesn't look North African either. He has a unique Italian look found in the Central and Southern parts of Italy (Italic peoples).

He could be iberian, but he doesn't look like one.

[riverman]

I wouldn't guess sikeliot as greek or Sicilian, I seem to be the only one who notices the other influences, and sicilianu I might guess as greek, so prob alfieb.

[Anthropologique]

You're not the only one. I think Alfieb looks Iberian too. Sure Anthropologique disagrees, but he's just a bit nationalistic. I don't think Alfieb looks Greek. He doesn't look North African either. He has a unique Italian look found in the Central and Southern parts of Italy (Italic peoples).

Have you ever been to Sicily, Spain and Portugal? Alfieb looks S. Italian.

Nationalistic? I'm more than half Breton! :rolleyes2:

[riverman]

Have you ever been to Sicily, Spain and Portugal? Alfieb looks S. Italian.

Nationalistic? I'm more than half Breton! :rolleyes2:

People shouldn't put their pics up unless they want honest answers. the funniest thing is when you're correct about your guess/estimation and it still ticks them off because it isn't what they want to hear.:lol:

[Newsboy]

Have you ever been to Sicily, Spain and Portugal? Alfieb looks S. Italian.

Nationalistic? I'm more than half Breton! :rolleyes2:

I've met lots of Sicilians, and Portuguese. I've also met a good number of South Americans of Spanish origin.

Well Sorry sir, I said you were a little bit nationalistic. You are just patriotic, that's all. Did I say Alfieb only looks Iberian? He obviously looks more S. Italian than Iberian because that's what he is. He looks more Iberian than Arab!

[alfieb]

Would you also say that Sicilianu looks s. italian, then spanish, then arab?

[riverman]

Would you also say that Sicilianu looks s. italian, then spanish, then arab?

I wouldn't. perhaps some type of middle east before Spanish though, IMO

[Peyrol]

Is Sicilian closer to standard Italian than Piemontese?

They're both different but sicilian is slightly more similar since is a eastern romance language, as standard italian (standard italian is the tuscan spoken in the XIII-XV centuries), while piemontese is a western one, a gallo-romance language precisely.

[Slycooper]

Close between Sikelot and Sicilianu

[Newsboy]

Would you also say that Sicilianu looks s. italian, then spanish, then arab?

Yes Alfieb, I would. The Middle Easterners I would place before Spanish would be Sephardic Jews and maybe Assyrian, but not Arabs.

[Anthropologique]

I've met lots of Sicilians, and Portuguese. I've also met a good number of South Americans of Spanish origin.

Well Sorry sir, I said you were a little bit nationalistic. You are just patriotic, that's all. Did I say Alfieb only looks Iberian? He obviously looks more S. Italian than Iberian because that's what he is. He looks more Iberian than Arab!

It's obvious you know little about Europeans - maybe you are just politely trolling, if that's even possible - You're 19, from China and have met all these Sicilians and Portuguese, etc. Sure, sure. Come on guy... Take a look at all the group photos of ethnicities - the differences are real.:bored:

Of course Alfieb looks MUCH more S. ITALIAN than Arab, but not Iberian.

[Smaug]

Sicilianu I think, but I'm not an expert in Sicilian looks.

[Sikeliot]

Realistically it's a bit more like asking "Which one looks most STEREOTYPICALLY Sicilian" since, let's be real. Almost anyone can pass as Sicilian, at least most Southern Euros and Middle Easterners.

Sicilianu101 to me looks the most Lebanese, Syrian, Palestinian, but he doesn't look Greek for the record. I think I am the only one of the three who does look Greek.

And I am surprised almost no one thinks alfieb looks Iberian but me.

[Sikeliot]

Would you also say that Sicilianu looks s. italian, then spanish, then arab?

Lebanese/Syrian/Palestinian > Cypriot > Sicilian > Egyptian all before Spanish.

[rashka]

AlfieB looks the most like a Sicilian. And no doubt about it Sikeliot looks Greek.

[alfieb]

AlfieB looks the most like a Sicilian. And no doubt about it Sikeliot looks Greek.
So, by extension, it sounds to me that what people consider the "Sicilian" look is Western Sicilian, rather than Eastern Sicilian.

[rashka]

What would this guy be - east or west Sicily?
http://timeglobalspin.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/italy_mafia_1010.jpg?w=580

[Lemon Kush]

I think Alfieb wins the title of Don Corleone here. The typical Sicilian mafiosos have a robust build similar to his. Sikeliot and Sicilianu are too weak and gracile.

[Mans not hot]

I voted Afieb.

[Sikeliot]

So if I look Greek and people are not picking me, people must not think Sicilian looks Greek.

And if people are picking (Levantine looking) Sicilianu101, people must also think that look comes closer than Greek does.

[riverman]

So, by extension, it sounds to me that what people consider the "Sicilian" look is Western Sicilian, rather than Eastern Sicilian.

IDK, sicilianu looks Sicilian to me

[Sikeliot]

So, by extension, it sounds to me that what people consider the "Sicilian" look is Western Sicilian, rather than Eastern Sicilian.

I don't think that is an accurate deduction. Because the "western Sicilian" look is a mixture of Levantine and Norman, which comes out kind of Ashkenazi looking.

But really anyone can pass for Sicilian. I think you fit the stereotype best of what people see in movies, but in terms of sheer number, I'd be more common in eastern Sicily and in the west, people wouldn't look like either of us.

[alfieb]

I don't think that is an accurate deduction. Because the "western Sicilian" look is a mixture of Levantine and Norman, which comes out kind of Ashkenazi looking.

But really anyone can pass for Sicilian. I think you fit the stereotype best of what people see in movies, but in terms of sheer number, I'd be more common in eastern Sicily and in the west, people wouldn't look like either of us.

Maybe.

Both Pacino and I can pass for Ashkenazi.

[Sikeliot]

Both Pacino and I can pass for Ashkenazi.

Have you been mistaken for one in real life?

I've accepted my classification for you is completely inaccurate by this point :p
I've never been told Ashkenazi but I have been told Sephardi for me.

[riverman]

Have you been mistaken for one in real life?

I've accepted my classification for you is completely inaccurate by this point :p
I've never been told Ashkenazi but I have been told Sephardi for me.

Actually I said I might guess you as askenaz or part ashkenaz, in a pm

[riverman]

oh you said irl nevermind

[Sikeliot]

Actually I said I might guess you as askenaz or part ashkenaz, in a pm

I know some who look like me, but I don't look stereotypically Ashkenazi.

Realistically though this is what I realize -- MOST Southern Europeans and Middle Easterners can pass as Sicilian, whether typical or not. It's not hard to pass there :p

[alfieb]

Have you been mistaken for one in real life?

Yeah. Quite a few times. In New York, nearly all the Jews are Ashkenazi, and I've been confused for Jewish more than anything else.

[Sikeliot]

Yeah. Quite a few times. In New York, nearly all the Jews are Ashkenazi, and I've been confused for Jewish more than anything else.

Ahh. :) Well, given your western Sicilian origins, and your DNA results came out like a Norman/Levantine mix (I believe that's what you indicated), it's not a surprise.

[Sunphq]

I can't be bothered to read through the entire thread, but I'd say all three of you. You all fit within the spectrum of looks found in Sicily.

[Sikeliot]

I can't be bothered to read through the entire thread, but I'd say all three of you. You all fit within the spectrum of looks found in Sicily.

It's too bad we haven't seen your picture. You once said you looked it more than any of us :p

This guy IMO is the most typical "Sicilian" look, not based on stereotype but he doesn't really look much like any of us three. What do you say?

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/29002_4890438573436_1041483665_n.jpg

[Sunphq]

I think Alfieb wins the title of Don Corleone here. The typical Sicilian mafiosos have a robust build similar to his. Sikeliot and Sicilianu are too weak and gracile.

A lot of Sicilians are gracile, my father and my grandfather are/were. I am too.

[alfieb]

He's Messinese like the rest of you. He'd lose to me as well. Only Malta is more Sicilian than I! :thumb001:

[Sikeliot]

A lot of Sicilians are gracile, my father and my grandfather are/were. I am too.

The stereotype is someone who is short, round, and robust. I am very thin and small :lol:

[Sikeliot]

He's Messinese like the rest of you. He'd lose to me as well. Only Malta is more Sicilian than I! :thumb001:

I think you and Malta are typologically more similar, and Sicilianu and I are more typologically similar. And it makes sense since Maltese people come from western Sicily, not east. So do all of their common surnames. Farrugia, Camilleri, Vassallo, Vella, Spiteri, are all western Sicilian surnames. :)

[Sunphq]

This guy IMO is the most typical "Sicilian" look, not based on stereotype but he doesn't really look much like any of us three. What do you say?

He does look very Sicilian, the eye shape, my father has that eye shape, I do aswell. But I think Sicilians vary enough that all your looks are found quite commonly.

[Sikeliot]

He does look very Sicilian, the eye shape, my father has that eye shape, I do aswell. But I think Sicilians vary enough that all your looks are found quite commonly.

That eye shape is also common amongst Ashkenazis. But I think you're right -- after all, according to what people have answered to some of my threads, everything from Portugal to Kurdistan can pass in Sicily.

[alfieb]

I think you and Malta are typologically more similar, and Sicilianu and I are more typologically similar. And it makes sense since Maltese people come from western Sicily, not east. So do all of their common surnames. Farrugia, Camilleri, Vassallo, Vella, Spiteri, are all western Sicilian surnames. :)

Indeed. His surname in particular originates in northern Caltanissetta, not far from my family.

[Sikeliot]

Indeed. His surname in particular originates in northern Caltanissetta, not far from my family.

It also is present in Agrigento. I think, having looked them up, that the largest number of Maltese surnames come from Agrigento, then Caltanissetta, then Palermo.

Anything ending in -eri tends to come from Agrigento, whereas Vassallo and Farrugia come from Palermo.

[Sikeliot]

I'll say one more thing. It's funny how our appearances tend to coincide with the groups we identify with most strongly. Sicilianu101, from what I gather, identifies strongly with Arabs and low and behold, he passes as Levantine easily. I identify very strongly with my Ancient Greek roots and I am very Hellenocentric and what do you know, I look very Greek. alfieb from what I gather identifies with Sicily as a collective more than with any one particular aspect of our cultural and ancestral heritage, and identifies very strongly with Malta and passes quite well amongst Maltese (and is actually similar facially to MaltaFalzon if you compare eye and nose shape).

[alfieb]

Part of it is coincidence and part is by design.

If someone looks Greek, comes from some Greek ancestry, and studies Greece, they're likely to be a hellenophile.

If someone looks Arab, comes from some Arab ancestry, and studies Middle Eastern history and the history of Sicily under the Arabs, they're likely to appreciate that more.

Unlike the rest of you guys, including Sunphq, my family don't come from Messina - or even from one province at all. It's nearly a two hour drive from my mother's family to my father's. So, of course if someone is going to embrace the entirety of Sicily, it's going to be me. I've spent more time on Sicilian highways than the average Italian has in Sicily at all.

[Sikeliot]

It may have been you who said it, or I may have read it elsewhere, that people in Palermo and Catania are rivals, and that Palermitans find the Greek mindset of the eastern part of the island to be quite foreign to them and to their own historical narrative. And it does make sense. Eastern Sicilians are basically transplanted Greeks, and have less reason to think about Normans, for instance, than someone from the northwest of the island does.

[Baldur]

I wonder why u ask people since u seem to be insulted that people choose alfieb over yourself Sikeliot, and i think most people here haven't even seen many sicilians in their life, so sorry i cant even answer as i have no idea how a sicilian is supposed to look like.

[Sikeliot]

I wonder why u ask people since u seem to be insulted that people choose alfieb over yourself Sikeliot,

I'm not offended. As we know, the "Sicilian look" to me is Catania, Messina, Enna, and Syracuse. Palermo and Trapani, where alfieb has his family, are foreign land to me :p Catania and Palermo are rivals btw, both being the two largest provinces in population with Palermo representing the west of the island and Catania the east. So it's more that I naturally want an eastern Sicilian face to represent us first. ;)

[alfieb]

Catania is the economic capital of Sicily, and was the royal capital during the Aragonese rule.
Palermo is the political capital, and the largest city.

Catania is the heart of the East, right near Mt. Etna.
Palermo is the heart of the West, indeed the only large city we have.

Catania's football team is in Italy's top league.
Palermo's football team is in Italy's top league.

When they meet, it sometimes has deadly consequences. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Catania_football_violence)

But, Palermo may be relegated to Serie B at the end of the season, so the Etnean Elephants can rejoice.

[Peyrol]

Rarely in the east you can see people with the facial features of Bernardo Provenzano or Ignazio La Russa...''only in Palermo''.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/thumb/7/78/Bprovenzano.jpg/250px-Bprovenzano.jpg

http://www.fratelli-italiapiemonte.it/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/La-Russa.jpg

(someone here, obviously not an italian, told me that Provenzano has something ''baltid'' and La Russa look french...)

Btw, the palermitan reporter Pif look quite pansicilian

http://www.improntadigitale.org/public/dblog/report/pif%20.jpg

[Dombra]

Alfied looks the way way a real pizza baking brute would look

[Baluarte]

It's obvious you know little about Europeans - maybe you are just politely trolling, if that's even possible - You're 19, from China and have met all these Sicilians and Portuguese, etc. Sure, sure. Come on guy... Take a look at all the group photos of ethnicities - the differences are real.:bored:

Of course Alfieb looks MUCH more S. ITALIAN than Arab, but not Iberian.

I've never understood why you're so aggressive when giving your opinion about this anthro shit. At the end of the day, people just give an impression they don't truly care about. Relax x.x...

That's why,with all your great and epic knowledge of anthropology, it starts to be vexing to read you.

[Baluarte]

Btw, it also comes to allure and expression.

While both Sicilianu and alfieb have an Italian vibe/spirit, Sikeliot doesn't. Shows you don't live there nor have their habits.

[quaquaraqua]

I voted Alfieb from my experience! Sikeliot looks more Greek! Anyway all fit well in Sicily!

[alfieb]

Despite the differences, one thing unites East and West:

They're Sicilians, and while each think they're the better Sicilians, they agree that they're both better than everyone else.

http://www.fototifo.it/eventi/20102011/palermo-catania_150/20102011_palermo-catania_012.jpg
Catania at Palermo

http://www.fototifo.it/eventi/20102011/catania-palermo_133/20102011_catania-palermo_035.jpg
Palermo at Catania

[The Alchemist]

Rarely in the east you can see people with the facial features of Bernardo Provenzano or Ignazio La Russa...''only in Palermo''.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/thumb/7/78/Bprovenzano.jpg/250px-Bprovenzano.jpg

http://www.fratelli-italiapiemonte.it/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/La-Russa.jpg

(someone here, obviously not an italian, told me that Provenzano has something ''baltid'' and La Russa look french...)

Btw, the palermitan reporter Pif look quite pansicilian

http://www.improntadigitale.org/public/dblog/report/pif%20.jpg

What delicate noses :D :D
That's why i tend to prefer germanics in general, since i find big noses unattractive.

[Austo]

What delicate noses :D :D
That's why i tend to prefer germanics in general, since i find big noses unattractive.

:naughty2:

[Newsboy]

It's obvious you know little about Europeans - maybe you are just politely trolling, if that's even possible - You're 19, from China and have met all these Sicilians and Portuguese, etc. Sure, sure. Come on guy... Take a look at all the group photos of ethnicities - the differences are real.:bored:

Of course Alfieb looks MUCH more S. ITALIAN than Arab, but not Iberian.

Anthropologique, trust me I'm not a troll. You see, I'm not really in China. It's just my background. My real location is somewhere in North America (not Dixie, West Coast, or Southwest). So I've definitely met some Portuguese, Sicilians, and South Americans of Spanish descent. I acknowledge the differences, but don't get upset. I didn't mean to insult the mostly Breton user.

[Peyrol]

What delicate noses :D :D
That's why i tend to prefer germanics in general, since i find big noses unattractive.

...and what about the ubertuscan Chiellini?

Stereotypical central italic nose...look like a mix between empero Nerone and Dante Alighieri :lol:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ZxW_xAshSn8/SwOCoop0yQI/AAAAAAAAAJ8/q7nwz4fbwQk/s1600/Chielllini3.jpg

[The Alchemist]

...and what about the ubertuscan Chiellini?

Stereotypical central italic nose...look like a mix between empero Nerone and Dante Alighieri :lol:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ZxW_xAshSn8/SwOCoop0yQI/AAAAAAAAAJ8/q7nwz4fbwQk/s1600/Chielllini3.jpg
Damn, we could show millions example from the whole Italy, from north to south there's an army of "abundant" noses :D :D
Call me nordicist or whatever you want, but i like people with small noses, or medium sized ones (on women small is better). And straight or upturned is ideal, but not downturned!!

[Sikeliot]

I voted Alfieb from my experience! Sikeliot looks more Greek! Anyway all fit well in Sicily!

This doesn't make sense. Eastern Sicilians almost all look Greek, while not all western Sicilians look like alfieb.

[Sikeliot]

Rarely in the east you can see people with the facial features of Bernardo Provenzano or Ignazio La Russa...''only in Palermo''.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/thumb/7/78/Bprovenzano.jpg/250px-Bprovenzano.jpg

http://www.fratelli-italiapiemonte.it/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/La-Russa.jpg



And going the other way, Marcella Bella and Bruna di Raimondo, with their prominent Ancient Greek features, are faces I'd only expect to see in eastern Sicily. Very distinct.

http://static2.oggi.it/wp-content/blogs.dir/3/files/marcella-bella-indagata-per-evasione-fiscale/milestone-ed-00wm2s.jpg?v=1317116240

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3615/3652128436_1df984cb65_z.jpg?zz=1

[Peyrol]

Obviously in the east you can see also people who look differently, like Miriam Leone or Anna Valle (Anna Valle is born in Rome but her parents are from Lentini):

http://www.blogsicilia.eu/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Anna-Valle_shadowbox.jpg

http://www.cucchini.com/media/16022010163724_87-25-218-192_2007918163117.jpg

[Sikeliot]

^ She looks like half Greek, half Irish Angie Harmon.

But the examples I posted are probably the "typical" eastern Sicilian look. In western Sicily you also find people like these, in contrast to your examples but also present;

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/299812_618170468198745_1769710650_n.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/16973_1204776893742_2216138_n.jpg

[Peyrol]

Probabily the only place in Europe with this great presence of different phenotypes...

[Sikeliot]

Probabily the only place in Europe with this great presence of different phenotypes...

Yes indeed. As I said in another post, you can find "Sicilian looking" people everywhere from Spain to Kurdistan. I don't think most Europeans can say the same about themselves.

[The Alchemist]

Anna Valle looks text book north italian to me....i even met her in real life, very nice and natural woman i have to say, tall and thin, and not different than in the screan...

[Sikeliot]

Anna Valle looks text book north italian to me....i even met her in real life, very nice and natural woman i have to say, tall and thin, and not different than in the screan...

She's pan-Italian I think. I think she'd fit anywhere in Italy, except maybe Sardinia.

[The Alchemist]

She's pan-Italian I think. I think she'd fit anywhere in Italy, except maybe Sardinia.

Of course yes, but more northern than southern if i should say, believe me.

[Anthropologique]

I've never understood why you're so aggressive when giving your opinion about this anthro shit. At the end of the day, people just give an impression they don't truly care about. Relax x.x...

That's why,with all your great and epic knowledge of anthropology, it starts to be vexing to read you.

The problem is that there are a truckload of liars and exaggerators on these forums.

[Sikeliot]

Of course yes, but more northern than southern if i should say, believe me.

I'd believe it. She is also from an area that was once an ancient Greek settlement. I was looking up to see if there is any Gallo-Italic ancestry there, which would explain her look.

[Peyrol]

Anna Valle looks text book north italian to me....i even met her in real life, very nice and natural woman i have to say, tall and thin, and not different than in the screan...

Wow, you lucky...only famous people i met recently were Berlusconi and Del Piero :lol:

[alfieb]

I'd rather meet ADP myself, especially if I were from Torino.

[Sicilianu101]

Sicily is a place of very diverse phenotypes so I can't completely pick one of us. To do so would be to stereotype my people.

I am not out of the ordinary for my area of northeastern Sicily (Nebrodi mountains in Messina province).

Alfieb is 1/4 Northern Italian. In general I do agree he fits better in western sicily.

Also I think slight Polish + Portuguese influences combined with a very East Med type of Sicilian combines to making a "Greek-looking" Sicilian in Sikeliot

[alfieb]

No, I'm 1/4 Northern Italian (1/8 Ligurian, 1/8 Lombardian) with possible (distant) Basque ancestry on the Ligurian side. 1/4 Trapanese, 1/2 Palermitan.

[Sicilianu101]

No, I'm 1/4 Northern Italian (1/8 Ligurian, 1/8 Lombardian) with possible (distant) Basque ancestry on the Ligurian side. 1/4 Trapanese, 1/2 Palermitan.

Oh yeah Im getting confused with someone else.. lol sorry brother

[alfieb]

No worries. Sikeliot recently said that he believes he's part Sardinian, so that could've been it.

[Sikeliot]

No worries. Sikeliot recently said that he believes he's part Sardinian, so that could've been it.

One of my great grandfathers has a Sardinian-only surname.

[Diërker]

Me.

[Prince Carlo]

I don't see Alfieb as being typical anywhere in Italy. Foreigners talking out of their ass. Very annoying.

[alfieb]

I don't see Alfieb as being typical anywhere in Italy. Foreigners talking out of their ass. Very annoying.
Sicily is not Italy, Neapolitan. :no:

Peyrol voted for me, and there are more Sicilians in Torino than in Napoli. :lol:

[Sikeliot]

I don't see Alfieb as being typical anywhere in Italy.

He fits the stereotype based on American movies, but in terms of raw number I think I look the most Sicilian. Because I look like every other guy in eastern Sicily or Calabria.

[Slycooper]

Sicily is not Italy, Neapolitan. :no:

Peyrol voted for me, and there are more Sicilians in Torino than in Napoli. :lol:

:eek:

[Lorene]

Sicilianu101.

My paternal granparents were from Napoli, Campania.

[Virtuous]

No such thing as most typical Sicilian anyway.

[Baluarte]

He fits the stereotype based on American movies, but in terms of raw number I think I look the most Sicilian. Because I look like every other guy in eastern Sicily or Calabria.

You don't have a Sicilian/Italian allure, that's probably why we don't see you like one.

[Lorene]

I think I look the most Sicilian. Because I look like every other guy in eastern Sicily or Calabria.

Portuguese rather Sicilian.

[Sikeliot]

Portuguese rather Sicilian.

I don't understand some people thinking I look more Portuguese when I think I have an East Med sort of look.. and people say I look Greek, and Greeks definitely look more like Sicilians than like Portuguese.

[riverman]

I don't understand some people thinking I look more Portuguese when I think I have an East Med sort of look.. and people say I look Greek, and Greeks definitely look more like Sicilians than like Portuguese.


I think you look sort of portuguese.

[riverman]

sort of.


that being said sicilianu really has that Sicilian look

[Sikeliot]

I think you look sort of portuguese.

I mean not that I'd have any issue with looking Portuguese -- I am closer to that side of my family than my father's. But I just don't.

[Newsboy]

I don't understand some people thinking I look more Portuguese when I think I have an East Med sort of look.. and people say I look Greek, and Greeks definitely look more like Sicilians than like Portuguese.

Greeks don't necessarily look more Sicilian. I know this sounds ridiculous, but there is a minority of Greeks that look more Northern and Western than Sicilians. This minority of Greeks can pass further west than Italy.

[Sikeliot]

Some Greeks look neither Sicilian nor Portuguese. I know this sounds ridiculous, but there is a minority of Greeks that look more Northern and Western than Sicilians (these Greeks can pass further west).

I don't think more western (i.e. more Sicilians will look German than Greeks will) but more Greeks IMO can pass in Eastern Europe for sure.

[Newsboy]

I don't think more western (i.e. more Sicilians will look German than Greeks will) but more Greeks IMO can pass in Eastern Europe for sure.

What about the Spanish? Sicilians are the Europeans with one of the most Levantine influences (even more than Greeks). Many (but not all) Greeks lack Levantine influence just like the Spaniards. Atlanto-Med and Gracile-Med are common in both places. Pontid types can look Spanish as well. I think some Greeks can look more Southwestern than Sicilians (not Western as in German or Irish).

[Sikeliot]

What about the Spanish? Sicilians are the Europeans with one of the most Levantine influences (even more than Greeks). Many (but not all) Greeks lack Levantine influence just like the Spaniards. Atlanto-Med and Gracile-Med are common in both places. Pontid types can look Spanish as well. I think some Greeks can look more Southwestern than Sicilians (not Western as in German or Irish).


This is my thought -- and it is substantiated both by genetics and all my experience --

a) when at their most "exotic", Sicilians look more like Lebanese whereas Greeks look more like Turks.

b) when at their "lightest", Sicilians look more like Central Europeans or French, whereas Greeks more like Slavs.

c) a substantial part of the Greek population looks generally Balkan, whereas a lot of Sicilians don't look Greek but almost like they could be say, half French/Western European and half Lebanese.

d) Sicilians have more "Gracile Med" overlap with Spain than Greece does, but Greece with their Pontids come closer to the Atlanto-Meds.

[Newsboy]

This is my thought -- and it is substantiated both by genetics and all my experience --

a) when at their most "exotic", Sicilians look more like Lebanese whereas Greeks look more like Turks.

b) when at their "lightest", Sicilians look more like Central Europeans or French, whereas Greeks more like Slavs.

c) a substantial part of the Greek population looks generally Balkan, whereas a lot of Sicilians don't look Greek but almost like they could be say, half French/Western European and half Lebanese.

d) Sicilians have more "Gracile Med" overlap with Spain than Greece does, but Greece with their Pontids come closer to the Atlanto-Meds.

Sikeliot, I agree with most of what you said. The Greeks can overlap with Spanish with their Atlanto-Meds and Pontids. The Spanish can overlap with Greeks with their Atlanto-Meds. This is when Greeks resembling Spanish and vice versa is possible.

The exotic Sicilians do indeed look Lebanese/Coastal Syrian. The exotic Greeks would resemble Western Turks or Georgians. In terms of the lightest types, Sicilians would look German or French while the Greeks look Polish, Ukrainian or even Russian.

Sure Greece is in the Balkan peninsula, but I think they look a bit more Western and Med than the rest of the Balkanians.

That's what I was saying all along.

[Ianus]

I think Alfieb is the most sicilian. His phenotype is Souther Italian

[riverman]

I think Alfieb is the most sicilian. His phenotype is Souther Italian

What about Sicilianu?

[Sikeliot]

I honestly think it's me. I think I have the most common look of the three of us. I think alfieb looks more Sardinian or Iberian than he looks Sicilian, and I think Sicilianu101 looks very Levantine.

[Ianus]

What about Sicilianu?

Never seen his face

[riverman]

Depends on what people think Sicilian looks like.

If people think it's Greek, I win.
If people think it's Levantine, Sicilianu wins.
If people think it's neither but just an ambiguous swarthoid, then you win.

Lol

[riverman]

I honestly think it's me. I think I have the most common look of the three of us. I think alfieb looks more Sardinian or Iberian than he looks Sicilian, and I think Sicilianu101 looks very Levantine.

Could be, I thought Sicilianu looks very Sicilian though. Stereotype maybe, idk.

[Sikeliot]

In spirit though, it's alfieb. He identifies with Sicily as a whole, while I consider myself basically an ancient Greek. He is the most knowledgeable about Sicily as a whole so for that, he wins.

But phenotypically I think it goes me first, then Sicilianu, and then alfieb.

[alfieb]

Because you're biased against Western Sicilian phenotypes. As you've acknowledged in the past, it's all a matter of what someone identifies the typical Sicilian look as, since there are several.

I like the Greek look, I do, but where my family are from, it's not prevalent.

Western Sicily has more Gracile Meds, Alpine Meds, Norids and Berids, while Eastern Sicily has more East Meds and Dinaro-Meds.

[Sikeliot]

Western Sicily has more Gracile Meds, Alpine Meds, Norids and Berids, while Eastern Sicily has more East Meds and Dinaro-Meds.

I'm not biased against western Sicilian looks in that I dislike them. It's just my own view of what we look like is based on people from the eastern coast and Enna.

And Armenoid. Which is where the sometimes Jewish looking can come from. I do think a different type of East Med can occur in western Sicily though -- but it's not a Greek looking one, that's for sure.

And like I always say the higher Berid element goes hand in hand with a stronger North African influence. Berids in eastern Sicily are rare, and North African genetic input is significantly smaller there. It probably arrived via a very ancient migration from North Africa in Europe's formative years, in prehistoric times.

[alfieb]

Oddly enough, as I think I've mentioned before, African DNA has been said by some studies to peak in Ragusa.

I stand by the claims to the contrary that Sciacca deserves that semi-dubious honour.

[Sikeliot]

African as in North African?
I would have thought Ragusa was similar to the rest of the east. I do know they have a high frequency of haplogroup J1, more on par with some western regions. I always thought that African components (especially North African) got stronger as you go southwest in Sicily, meaning Messina has little to none and Agrigento has the most.

I would like to see a study done for each region.

[Dombra]

Alfieb, the random swarthoid

[alfieb]

African as in North African?
I would have thought Ragusa was similar to the rest of the east. I do know they have a high frequency of haplogroup J1, more on par with some western regions.
I am under the impression that J1 is highest in the Southeast, actually.

While we all know that Eupedia is hardly reliable, a brief scan in that direction implies that Ragusa is over 30% J1, and that autosomal admixture for SSA components based on Dodecad data is highest in the Southeast as well.


I always thought that African components (especially North African) got stronger as you go southwest in Sicily, meaning Messina has little to none and Agrigento has the most.
That would be logical. Home of the Carthaginians, first to fall to the Saracens, Capital of the Emirate of Sicily all in the West rather than the East.


I would like to see a study done for each region.
I'd donate money to such an effort, if it were going to be even a half-decent study.

[Tauromachos]

I think Donriccardo is a good candite too

But honestly i haven't seen many more Sicilian members here except Sikeliot and a few others who posted in the past
but aren't much active by now

[Sikeliot]

I think Donriccardo is a good candite too

But honestly i haven't seen many more Sicilian members here except Sikeliot and a few others who posted in the past
but aren't much active by now

No one's pictures are still visible to see, so this thread has no purpose.