Belgians closer to Swedes or Spaniards?

[Dombra]

Are Belgians closer to Swedes or Spaniards?

[Dombra]

Probably Swedes

[archangel]

swedes imho

[dralos]

swedes altough there are quite alot of spaniards here who have mixed with the locals

[sevruk]

Who are the Belgians? Walloons or Flemish?

[Hevo]

Who are the Belgians? Walloons or Flemish?

You can both consider them as Belgians, but the Flemish people are closer to the Dutch while Walloons are closer to the French people.

[Dacul]

Swedes.

[Han Cholo]

You can both consider them as Belgians, but the Flemish people are closer to the Dutch while Walloons are closer to the French people.

Do they really look that different?

[Sandman]

I'ts simple, Wallons closer to spaniards , flemish (germanics) to swedes

[Mraz]

Flemish, with Swedes for sure, but Walloons are not tall and lot have ancestry from Spain or Italia, but still closer to Northern countries than Southern IMO.

[Baldur]

pics or it didn't happen.

[Hevo]

Do they really look that different?

I mean more like culture/language and mentality. However Flemish people are closer to Swedes than to Spaniards for sure.

[Asgardsrei]

Spaniards

[Jackson]

Flemish - Swedes
Walloons - Probably Swedes

[Anthropologique]

I live in Flanders about 1/4 of the year. The Flemish, on average, are closer to Swedes. Belgians overall can look a bit Scandi and also somewhat Spanish / Portuguese. Generally, they are more like Swedes

[Comte Arnau]

Send a Swede or a Spaniard to Brussels and they all become the same: bald/grey-haired, glasses, coat, tie and briefcase.

[Slycooper]

I'ts simple, Wallons closer to spaniards , flemish (germanics) to swedes

This

[Sikeliot]

Walloons to Spaniards, Flemish to Swedes.

[Comte Arnau]

Walloons are too round headed to fit in Spain. :D

This Flemish could pass both in Spain and Sweden. :)

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/bg/Sports+Illustrated+Swimsuit+issue+unveiled+9byEdJj xG0el.jpg

[Sikeliot]

^ More in Spain.

[dralos]

the flemish especially those of a rich background look very germanic while the lower ones look more celtic
wallons are usually also germanic looking alot of nordids there too but they are more mixed with italians,spaniards

[Ibericus]

genetically Belgians are on average slightly closer to spanairds than to Swedes :


http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/1732/fststatistics.png

[Anthropologique]

Send a Swede or a Spaniard to Brussels and they all become the same: bald/grey-haired, glasses, coat, tie and briefcase.

TOO RIGHT!!

[Atlantic Islander]

Swedes.

[Comte Arnau]

Skin tone: (Jablonski-Chaplin, 2000)

- Dutch = expected: light (65,94) - real: very light (67,37)
- Basques in Spain = expected: wog (62,98) - real: light (65,70)
- Leonese (NW Spaniards) = expected: supawog (60,80) - real: light (64,66)
- Belgians = expected: light (65,66) - real: woggid (63,14) :D

No data for Swedes, unfortunately.

[WOOHP]

Lol what a thread. Ofc it's Swedes.

They cluster closer to Swedes, nowhere near Iberians. I don't know if the sample is from Wallonia or Flanders.

http://imageshack.us/a/img404/5940/9jo.png

Phenotypically speaking they have a stronger overlap with North/West Germany, Britain and Northern France but they are ofc even regarding this much closer to Swedes.

[Ibericus]

Lol what a thread. Ofc it's Swedes.

They cluster closer to Swedes, nowhere near Iberians. I don't know if the sample is from Wallonia or Flanders.

http://imageshack.us/a/img404/5940/9jo.png

Phenotypically speaking they have a stronger overlap with North/West Germany, Britain and Northern France but they are ofc even regarding this much closer to Swedes.
Stop posting this fake plot, is a modification from the original study.

[WOOHP]

Stop posting this fake plot, is a modification from the original study.

It's not a fake plot. It is also taken from a study.

Belgians are closer to Swedes.

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9261/bootstrap.png

[Damião de Góis]

It's not a fake plot. It is also taken from a study.


Which one?

[Dandelion]

Skin tone: (Jablonski-Chaplin, 2000)

- Dutch = expected: light (65,94) - real: very light (67,37)
- Basques in Spain = expected: wog (62,98) - real: light (65,70)
- Leonese (NW Spaniards) = expected: supawog (60,80) - real: light (64,66)
- Belgians = expected: light (65,66) - real: woggid (63,14) :D

No data for Swedes, unfortunately.

I myself am light-skinned, but I have woggish cousins. Some are even mistaken for Southern Europeans because of their darker tones.

[WOOHP]

Which one?

I don't have the link, I got it from an English member here in another thread.

Here's the individual cluster. Belgians are inbetween the French and Brits, but slightly towards the right.

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/3687/pca.png

[Damião de Góis]

I don't have the link, I got it from an English member here in another thread.


I know Graham posted it first. But he got it from a forum, so it's not a study. Just someone playing around with graphics... with very distorted results.

[WOOHP]

I know Graham posted it first. But he got it from a forum, so it's not a study. Just someone playing around with graphics... with very distorted results.

It wasn't Graham.

Results are not disorted and not different from the original one, except for the Swiss sample which is divided into a French and a German part.

How about the one in post #31?

[Azalea]

I don't know much about Walloons but the Flemish don't differ too much from the Dutch. Maybe I am biased because I from the Southern Nederlands myself, but my experience with them is that they are a just a slightly woggier and 'backwarded' (probably not the right word) version of the Dutch. And I am pretty sure the Dutch are closer to Swedes than to Spaniards. So I say Swedes.

[Ibericus]

I don't have the link, I got it from an English member here in another thread.

Here's the individual cluster. Belgians are inbetween the French and Brits, but slightly towards the right.

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/3687/pca.png
In this other study the Belgians are more visible, and about halfway between the two but slightly closer to spaniards than to swedes, (it's the one study where I got the table of distances in the previous page) :

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v16/n12/images/ejhg2008210f3.jpg

[Damião de Góis]

It wasn't Graham.

I'm pretty sure it was.


Results are not disorted and not different from the original one, except for the Swiss sample which is divided into a French and a German part.

Of course they are different.

Original:

http://oi39.tinypic.com/r7kphg.jpg

Fake (rotated for better perception):

http://oi41.tinypic.com/2jg5ff6.jpg


How about the one in post #31?

What is the source of that one?

[Insuperable]

I know Graham posted it first. But he got it from a forum, so it's not a study. Just someone playing around with graphics... with very distorted results.

It was taken from this study: http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v19/n9/abs/ejhg201165a.html

[Damião de Góis]

It was taken from this study: http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v19/n9/abs/ejhg201165a.html

Where is it?

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v19/n9/pdf/ejhg201165a.pdf

[Insuperable]

Where is it?

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v19/n9/pdf/ejhg201165a.pdf

Sorry then I mixed up Whoop's pics

[Roy]

In this other study the Belgians are more visible, and about halfway between the two but slightly closer to spaniards than to swedes, (it's the one study where I got the table of distances in the previous page) :

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v16/n12/images/ejhg2008210f3.jpg

It would be nice to see something like this on a sort of 3D map as for example Slovaks are covered by Poles, Czechs and Hungarians on it. Ibericus could you tell who prepared this study and provide some data about it?


On the topic: Belgians are closer to Swedes than to Spanish people most likely. Still it may depends on whether we take Walloons or Flemish people ...

[Ice]

Swedes ofcourse.

[Dandelion]

but my experience with them is that they are a just a slightly woggier and 'backwarded' (probably not the right word) version of the Dutch.

The correct word would be just 'backward'. And in that regard I agree. Flemish have more of a peasant culture than the Dutch have, as if we lack an elite that truly identifies with the Dutch-speaking culture (culture not just heritage; a Flemish professor for instance even shows such traits, making grammar mistakes like confusing 'noemen' and 'heten' or not even knowing that Rijsel was always French-speaking in history, etc... very unlike what one should expect from a professor).
No insult taken. It's what any observer would say when comparing Flanders with the Netherlands one has to be blind not to see.
A true patriot/nationalist also knows a country can change for the better and that the individual benefits from improvement.

By the way, I think the superiority of a culture doesn't necessarily denote the superiority of the individual, hence I never take insult and even form that opinion myself.
I often had disagreements with Bittereinder on ABF about this (he called me 'someone with an inferiority complex' while I personally see myself as critical of the society I'm part of and associate individuals less with the collective they're part of).

[Smeagol]

Both Flemish, and Walloons are closer to Swedes.

[Asgardsrei]

Both Flemish, and Walloons are closer to Swedes.

How are romance people closer to Swedes than to Spaniards:confused:

[Ibericus]

It would be nice to see something like this on a sort of 3D map as for example Slovaks are covered by Poles, Czechs and Hungarians on it. Ibericus could you tell who prepared this study and provide some data about it?


On the topic: Belgians are closer to Swedes than to Spanish people most likely.
Here is the study :

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v16/n12/full/ejhg2008210a.html

[WOOHP]

In this other study the Belgians are more visible, and about halfway between the two but slightly closer to spaniards than to swedes, (it's the one study where I got the table of distances in the previous page) :
Look at the "original" one that Alex posted. Belgians there are still closer to Swedes.


Of course they are different.

Original:

Fake (rotated for better perception):

Why is it fake? Because you don't like it? It's like I said taken from a study and they have only changed one thing and that is splitting the Swiss sample into three.

What is the source of that one?

http://bga101.blogspot.se/2011/05/french-basques-and-sardinians-are.html

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/3687/pca.png

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9261/bootstrap.png

[Damião de Góis]

Why is it fake? Because you don't like it?

Unsourced and distorted.

[riverman]

Swedes, they look nothing like Spanish.

[Artek]

They are clearly inbetween, with maybe flemish being closer to the Swedes. Just like Poles are inbetween French and Finns with slight bias towards Finns probably. Both phenotypically and genetically (ignoring haplogroups)

[Loki]

They are clearly inbetween, with maybe flemish being closer to the Swedes. Just like Poles are inbetween French and Finns with slight bias towards Finns probably. Both phenotypically and genetically (ignoring haplogroups)

Yep I'd agree.

A lot of people seem to forget that some Spaniards also have a significant incidence of Northern European ancestry, via Goths and others.

[Loki]

One major overlap between Spaniards and Walloons, in particular, is their shared Celtic ancestry.

[Artek]

Yep I'd agree.

A lot of people seem to forget that some Spaniards also have a significant incidence of Northern European ancestry, via Goths and others.
Maybe not even Goths or other Germanics, since their traces are visible but not significant enough to visibly alter a genepool.

The influence I consider a strong enough and North(western) was from the Celts.

[King Claus]

i geuss walloons are closer to french and to some extent to spaniards aswell, and flemish are closer to dutch and to some extent to swedes?

[gold_fenix]

Yep I'd agree.

A lot of people seem to forget that some Spaniards also have a significant incidence of Northern European ancestry, via Goths and others.


That Northern european ancestry is simply pre neolithic admixture who simply is higher in Northern European but it is bad called nothern european

[Artek]

That Northern european ancestry is simply pre neolithic admixture who simply is higher in Northern European but it is bad called nothern european
That's right. Some studies have shown even typical Northern European mtdna in the genepool of Iberian hunters-gatherers.
But I assume that this ancestry in terms of autosomal genetics flushed over time and we must search for more recent sources.

[Roy]

Here is the study :

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v16/n12/full/ejhg2008210a.html

So Swedish samples were taken from Uppsala as I did read ...
the methodology used is quite intricate but still possible to comprehense.

[WOOHP]

Unsourced and distorted.

No. If anything it's an improvement because of the Swiss sample being split into three. You showed that it doesn't differ from the original one by just turning it around.

[WOOHP]

Yep I'd agree.

A lot of people seem to forget that some Spaniards also have a significant incidence of Northern European ancestry, via Goths and others.
Some seem to forget that Swedes are not some kind of über Viking 100% blonde-ish people too. Truth is that both Belgians and Swedes are Northern Europeans being ofc very similar in terms of coloring and they share way more phenotypes than what Belgians do with the Spanish.

[Damião de Góis]

No. If anything it's an improvement because of the Swiss sample being split into three. You showed that it doesn't differ from the original one by just turning it around.

You should have your eyes checked.

[Stormer99]

That Northern european ancestry is simply pre neolithic admixture who simply is higher in Northern European but it is bad called nothern european

It's still there. Spaniards are more North Euro than other southern Europeans like Greeks or Southern Italians.

[WOOHP]

You should have your eyes checked.

Why am I not surprised?

Fine, how about this one.

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9261/bootstrap.png

[Jackson]

That's right. Some studies have shown even typical Northern European mtdna in the genepool of Iberian hunters-gatherers.
But I assume that this ancestry in terms of autosomal genetics flushed over time and we must search for more recent sources.

I think a recent study about shared segments showed that the Iberian peninsula in general had remained quite stable over the last 2000 years or so, or something like that.

[Rudel]

I'ts simple, Wallons closer to spaniards , flemish (germanics) to swedes
You can't discern a Flemish from a Walloon.

The difference is that the Flemish (as well as others) were slightly more heavily settled with Salian Franks and completely switched language, while the Walloons just went with having the most Frankish-influenced Gallo-Romance dialect.

[dralos]

swedes

[Ctwentysevenj]

Closer to the Swedes.

[aimar]

sweden, they are basically northern europeans, belgium is above 50ºN
Regarding culture, phenotype, and geography they are closer to swedes

[scottch]

genetically Belgians are on average slightly closer to spanairds than to Swedes :


http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/1732/fststatistics.png

Is that measured in 1/10000th of a percent? It's amazing how close we Europeans are to each other, we are one of the most homogeneous groups of humans.... well not so much anymore

also what is the 4 groups at the bottom?

[Smeagol]

Belgians are closer to Swedes.

[arcticwolf]

I can't tell the difference between west euros, they all look the same to me. :laugh:

[Tchek]

Well we do look alike, and I'm west Euro

[guyinsf]

How are romance people closer to Swedes than to Spaniards:confused:

Because they are romance linguistically, not necessarily genetically. Their stock is mostly from germanic tribes so they are for sure closer to Swedes than Spaniards, Walloon or Flemish.

[Insuperable]

Probably Swedes.

[Yuffayur]

Wallon and Flamand are bot close to Swedes.

[Tooting Carmen]

Somewhere in the middle.

[guyinsf]

You can both consider them as Belgians, but the Flemish people are closer to the Dutch while Walloons are closer to the French people.

Walloons and Flemish people are virtually the same in the way they look. They just speak different languages.
People always think they are look so different but they don't. Belgium is a tiny country and the flemish and walloon have been mixing for quite a while too so the look is quite homogeneous.

[D´Sanglard]

Walloons and Flemish people are virtually the same in the way they look. They just speak different languages.
People always think they are look so different but they don't. Belgium is a tiny country and the flemish and walloon have been mixing for quite a while too so the look is quite homogeneous.

Right! It´s very difficult to discern Wallons and Flemish. Both are amolst the same.

[Jackson]

It'd be interesting to see some Belgian Flemish genetic results. As i've seen a couple for northern French people, and i think Tcheck is Walloon? Certainly Tcheck was close to the northern French, as was Biotronic (Norman i think), but Biotronic was more northern and more western iirc.

[Borna]

Swedes

[Tchek]

It'd be interesting to see some Belgian Flemish genetic results. As i've seen a couple for northern French people, and i think Tcheck is Walloon? Certainly Tcheck was close to the northern French, as was Biotronic (Norman i think), but Biotronic was more northern and more western iirc.

I asked Danielion who is from Flanders, if he wanted to test on 23andme, maybe he will.

Biotronic is from Quebec. My results with Biotronic were very similar, I don't know if the little percentages of difference matter much, because I've never seen any French individual being as close to the French cluster as I am (2.68) on Eurogenes K13. But I'm slightly more continental than him (closer to West German).

[Hevo]

Walloons and Flemish people are virtually the same in the way they look. They just speak different languages.


I disagree, i have been to Belgium several times and they look different as a whole.



Belgium is a tiny country and the flemish and walloon have been mixing for quite a while too so the look is quite homogeneous.

Netherlands is also a tiny country yet there is a significant difference between Southern&Northern Netherlands. Although i have seen only a few results of Flemish people i am convinced that they are close to Southern Netherlanders while Walloons are closer to North French etc. Also i would like to see evidence that Walloons and Flemish people heavily mixed for centuries.

[Bloody]

You can both consider them as Belgians, but the Flemish people are closer to the Dutch while Walloons are closer to the French people.

Both are closer to Northern French Phenotypically-wise... There is a clear phenotypical distinction between the Flemish and the Dutch.

[Hadouken]

Swedes

[Bloody]

Somewhere in the middle.

Flemish are blonder than Brits on average.

[Hevo]

Both are closer to Northern French Phenotypically-wise... There is a clear phenotypical distinction between the Flemish and the Dutch.

No, there is overlap between the population of Flanders and the population of North-Brabant/Limburg.

[guyinsf]

Both are closer to Northern French Phenotypically-wise... There is a clear phenotypical distinction between the Flemish and the Dutch.

My understanding is that there's not much of a difference in phenotype between dutch and flemish, they're almost the same. I have never heard anyone say otherwise until I read your statement.

[Tchek]

Between Dutch and Flemish? I can easily spot them apart

[Not a Cop]

Between Dutch and Flemish? I can easily spot them apart

What does the oracle on gedmatch say? Are you closer to Swedes or Spaniards?

[Tchek]

What does the oracle on gedmatch say? Are you closer to Swedes or Spaniards?

Depends which one. Scandos rarely show up on Gedmatch. I'm probably closer to Spaniard.

Ironically, on Eurogenes K13, my "2 populations approximation" is:


50% Danish +50% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.153822

My results, shows that I'm overall closer to spanish than to Scandos, but I'm closer to german continentals than to Spanish.


1 French @ 2.998604
2 South_Dutch @ 5.792711
3 West_German @ 6.437105
4 Southeast_English @ 10.379266
5 Spanish_Cataluna @ 11.045295
6 Southwest_English @ 11.523452
....
19 Danish @ 14.361512
....

Only Danish shows up, and I'm usually not far away from Catalonia.

And in "4 populations approximation" I got this:


Danish + French + French + Spanish_Cataluna @ 1.725786

Kinda in between actually.


On Dodecad V3 I'm more northern, but no Scando showing up.




Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 French (HGDP) 7.99
2 French (Dodecad) 8.24
3 CEU (HapMap) 9.02
4 N._European (Xing) 10.56
5 Orcadian (HGDP) 11.13
6 Argyll (1000 Genomes) 11.3
7 Orkney (1000 Genomes) 11.54
8 German (Dodecad) 12.6
9 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 15
10 Slovenian (Xing) 15.03

In the other hand, on 23andme I've got DNA matches with Swedes but not with Spaniards.

[Not a Cop]

Depends which one. Scandos rarely show up on Gedmatch. I'm probably closer to Spaniard.

Ironically, on Eurogenes K13, my "2 populations approximation" is:


My results, shows that I'm overall closer to spanish than to Scandos, but I'm closer to german continentals than to Spanish.


Only Danish shows up, and I'm usually not far away from Catalonia.

And in "4 populations approximation" I got this:


Kinda in between actually.


On Dodecad V3 I'm more northern, but no Scando showing up.



In the other hand, on 23andme I've got DNA matches with Swedes but not with Spaniards.

Yes, you seem to be inbetween, basing on this Flemish would propably be closer to Swedes.

[glicine max]

..

[glicine max]

once I fell in love with a belgian girl from charleroi who looked like the fernado torres' female version

[curupira]

If I remember correctly, Tchek turned out closer to Catalans, Castillians from León, Portuguese and Galicians than he is to Danes in genetic distance calculators.

[curupira]

^ He has already mentioned his results in the previous page.

[curupira]

These are his results I had referred to (he posted them on his results thread):

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 French 2.68
2 Southeast_English 9.12
3 German 9.63
4 Spanish_Cataluna 9.85
5 Southwest_English 10.01
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 11.21
7 Dutch 11.22
8 Spanish_Galicia 11.44
9 Portuguese 11.44
10 Orcadian 11.61
11 Danish 11.93
12 Irish 12.37
13 Spanish_Cantabria 12.39
14 West_Scottish 12.42
15 Spanish_Murcia 12.51
16 Spanish_Valencia 12.63
17 Southwest_French 12.71
18 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 13.04
19 Spanish_Extremadura 13.04
20 Spanish_Aragon 14.23

[interes]

Probably Gurians :D :D :D

[King Claus]

Do they really look that different?
yea

[Tchek]

Yes, you seem to be inbetween, basing on this Flemish would propably be closer to Swedes.

Weirdly enough, on MDLP K23b, the first thing that pops up is German-Volga which I guess is kinda Russian


1 German-Volga @ 6.054254
2 South_German @ 7.537166
3 Belgian @ 7.836284
4 Italian_North @ 8.080315
5 English @ 8.340924


but it makes no sense to me.

[Hithaeglir]

Swedish i guess :P

[Hevo]

Weirdly enough, on MDLP K23b, the first thing that pops up is German-Volga which I guess is kinda Russian


1 German-Volga @ 6.054254
2 South_German @ 7.537166
3 Belgian @ 7.836284
4 Italian_North @ 8.080315
5 English @ 8.340924


but it makes no sense to me.

Because Vladimir used shitloads of German-Volga/Southern German samples compared to other groups like Belgian etc. That's why alot NW Europeans have Southern/Volga German in their top 5.

[Willem]

There is a relatively large genetic distance between North and South Dutch.

North Dutch cluster with Scandinavians

South Dutch cluster with the North French

[glicine max]

There is a relatively large genetic distance between North and South Dutch.

North Dutch cluster with Scandinavians

South Dutch cluster with the North French
by north dutch you mean frisians?

[StonyArabia]

Walloons are still closer to northern euros despite speaking Romance tongue their basically northern French who are berg close to welsh and other northwest Europeans.

[Not a Cop]

Weirdly enough, on MDLP K23b, the first thing that pops up is German-Volga which I guess is kinda Russian


1 German-Volga @ 6.054254
2 South_German @ 7.537166
3 Belgian @ 7.836284
4 Italian_North @ 8.080315
5 English @ 8.340924


but it makes no sense to me.

That's expectable, Volga Germans are descent from about 30 000 group of German colonists which came to Russia inbetween of 1763 and 1767. They were from Central-Southern German lands, so it's expectable for you to be close to them.

[Willem]

by north dutch you mean frisians?

Many Northern Dutch who don't identify as Frisian are identical to them genetically. Probably because they lost the Frisian language the past 1000 years.

[Porpolita]

I am currently in Belgium, and they are clearly Northwest Europeans. As a group they are different to Scandinavians, but still closer to Swedes than to Spaniards (or any Southern Europeans).

And I can't differentiate between Flemish and Walloons (apart from the language of course).

[Hevo]

by north dutch you mean frisians?

Basically north of the Rhine.

[Jackson]

There is a relatively large genetic distance between North and South Dutch.

North Dutch cluster with Scandinavians

South Dutch cluster with the North French

It's more like North Dutch cluster close to but slightly south of Scandinavians, while South Dutch cluster between North French and North Dutch, but yeah there seems to be a significant difference. The same is true of North Germans vs West Germans.

[Not a Cop]

It's more like North Dutch cluster close to but slightly south of Scandinavians, while South Dutch cluster between North French and North Dutch, but yeah there seems to be a significant difference. The same is true of North Germans vs West Germans.

What is counted as West German?

[Hevo]

What is counted as West German?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Western_Germany_Regions_01.png

And i would like to add Hesse to some extent. Westphalia is sometimes counted as Northern Germany tough.

[curupira]

Weirdly enough, on MDLP K23b, the first thing that pops up is German-Volga which I guess is kinda Russian

Volga German results I have seen are barely mixed with Russians. Their ancestors came from Baden, Hesse, Southwest Germany. So it kind of makes sense.


The settlers came mainly from Bavaria, Baden, Hesse, the Palatinate, and the Rhineland, over the years 1763 to 1767.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volga_Germans

[Bloody]

I am currently in Belgium, and they are clearly Northwest Europeans. As a group they are different to Scandinavians, but still closer to Swedes than to Spaniards (or any Southern Europeans).

And I can't differentiate between Flemish and Walloons (apart from the language of course).

How would you compare Belgians with the British in terms of phenotype? since some people tend to claim Belgians are among the closest matches to British Islanders in the European continent?

Are they more/less germanic looking? what about phenotypes?

[Ctwentysevenj]

Overall Swedes.

[Guapo]

who cares.

[Veneda]

Scorpious rulez over full Zodiac. Who is against?

[Septentrion]

Are Belgians closer to Swedes or Spaniards?

What type of question is this? Belgium is located in North-West Europe. So can we be close to the Spaniards?

[Peterski]

To Spaniards in my opinion. Belgium was under Spanish influence but never under Swedish influence.

[Septentrion]

To Spaniards in my opinion. Belgium was under Spanish influence but never under Swedish influence.

Oh well the Netherlands was also under Spanish dominion. So I guess in your opinion, they'd be quite close to Spaniards. Anyway to steer you away from terrible ignorance. For your information, a good number of Swedish people today have Walloon blood. From 1620 well into the middle of the 18th century many Walloon miners and iron-workers settled in Sweden in Uppland and Ostergotland provinces. So that would make the Swedes even closer. Next time, please think before you write.

[Septentrion]

You can both consider them as Belgians, but the Flemish people are closer to the Dutch while Walloons are closer to the French people.

Yes. To be even more precise, Flemish are closer to the Southern Dutch, while Walloons are closer to North-Central French.

[tipirneni]

Swedes

[Daco Celtic]

I think both Walloons and Flemish are closer to Swedes. I know they speak French but aren't Walloons fairly Germanic in their own right?

[Bobby Martnen]

Walloons to Spaniards, Flemings to Swedes.

[Creoda]

From a cursory glance, they're closer to Swedes. Walloons however are about equidistant from Swedes and Galicians.

[Papastratosels26]

Swedens

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