Slavic Ethnogenesis - where did we come from?

[Jarl]

What do you think? What do the scholars of your country think?


In Poland, we've always had two main conceptions: the autochtonic and the allochtonic. The first one claims Slavs were formed in the Vistula basin (partly or exclusively). The second one claims they formed mainly in the Dnieper basin.

Recently there has been a heated debate in Poland over Slavic ethnogenesis. For the past 30 years, allochtonic conception was marginally more populat, however, recently new materials came to light. These come from the West Poland, and are described as Sukow-Szeligi or Sukow-Dziedzice culture (after the first discovery sites). This culture constituted a separate entity, much different to the well-described, Prague-Korchak which streched from Western Ukraine and Southern Poland, down to the Danube valley and the Balkans. Have you ever heard of this cultural horizon? Can you find anything about it in your native literature?

[Guapo]

In school we were told the Pripet marshes

[Amarantine]

O chemu ti to Vojvodo? What you are talking about ??

[Guapo]

Our original homeland was the marshes of Ukraine.

[Jarl]

Well that is one of the conception. It appeats that most scholars see Slavic ethnogenesis in this way:

Trzciniec horizon ---> Pommeranian and possibly also Chernoles culture -----> Zarubintsy, Zuber (or the Volhyn-Podolia horizon) and possibly Przeworsk/Oksywie -----> Kiev culture and parts of Chernyakov

This Przeworsk/Oksywie question is crucial to Slavic ethnogenesis in Poland. In the 80s it was rejected by some scholars who opposed Przeworsk to Prague-Korchak, saying they are too different and that there is a hiatus in-between then. A discontinuity.

Yet recently new Przeworsk settlements were dug out. Some survived until VII century (before that Przeworsk was thought to last until Vth). Also a whole new Slavic culture of Sukow-Dziedzice or Sukow-Szeligi was discovered. Now this culture is still being excavated/researched, but perhaps it shed some new light on Slavic ethnogenesis.

[Treffie]

What about the Rus? I read somewhere that they came from Scandinavia??:confused:

[Amarantine]

You are asking too much, dear Arawn , you see we have so many theories. :P

[Treffie]

Sorry m'lady! :D

[Svarog]

:D

vHiP9_c2IEI

[poiuytrewq0987]

What do you think? What do the scholars of your country think?


Our history is a bit complicated since there are many theories but here's one I subscribe to. Where Bulgaria is today is where Thrace used to be. Thracians spoke a separate Thracian language but Greek were also widely spoken. There were Thracians who became Hellenized by Greeks in Western Thrace and regions close to Hellespont. Thracians managed to create a substantial kingdom called the Odrysian Kingdom but that didn't last for very long after the Romans conquered the region. Fast forward a couple hundred of years, the Slavs came to Thrace, from that point, there existed a mixed population of Thraco-Slavs. We were that way until the Bulgars came with their heavily armored horses and began war with the Byzantines and eventually the existing Thraco-Slavic population adopted a Bulgarian identity.

[Sarmata]

Our history is a bit complicated since there are many theories but here's one I subscribe to. Where Bulgaria is today is where Thrace used to be. Thracians spoke a separate Thracian language but Greek were also widely spoken. There were Thracians who became Hellenized by Greeks in Western Thrace and regions close to Hellespont. Thracians managed to create a substantial kingdom called the Odrysian Kingdom but that didn't last for very long after the Romans conquered the region. Fast forward a couple hundred of years, the Slavs came to Thrace, from that point, there existed a mixed population of Thraco-Slavs. We were that way until the Bulgars came with their heavily armored horses and began war with the Byzantines and eventually the existing Thraco-Slavic population adopted a Bulgarian identity.

Well Bulgarians are mixed population...I know some Bulgarians who doesn't considered themselves as Slavs what is probably true. Thracs, Romans, Slavs...the question is who were "original Bulgarians" I heard theories about their Turic-Mongoloid origin or even Scythian/Sarmatian:confused:

[Jarl]

Our history is a bit complicated since there are many theories but here's one I subscribe to. Where Bulgaria is today is where Thrace used to be. Thracians spoke a separate Thracian language but Greek were also widely spoken. There were Thracians who became Hellenized by Greeks in Western Thrace and regions close to Hellespont. Thracians managed to create a substantial kingdom called the Odrysian Kingdom but that didn't last for very long after the Romans conquered the region. Fast forward a couple hundred of years, the Slavs came to Thrace, from that point, there existed a mixed population of Thraco-Slavs. We were that way until the Bulgars came with their heavily armored horses and began war with the Byzantines and eventually the existing Thraco-Slavic population adopted a Bulgarian identity.

Actually I had a discussion here with Tabiti on the origins of Bulgarians. I cannot remember which thread exactly, but if you're interested I will look it up send you the link. Tabiti was a proponent of Sarmatian origin of Bulgarian elites, while I was aruging for Turkic origins due to linguistic and historical ties with the Avar Khaganate - Kubrat, Greater Bulgaria:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Great_Bulgaria

Thraco-Slavs indeed adopted Bulgarian identity, yet Bulgarians themselves adopted the Slavic language and blended in.

[Guapo]

Thraco-Slavs indeed adopted Bulgarian identity, yet Bulgarians themselves adopted the Slavic language and blended in.

Same story as the minority Franks adopting Latin but forcing their funny name on the native Celto-Romance people.

[Tabiti]

Thraco-Slavs...Never heard so stupid thing, really...I'm amazed there are still people who believe in that theory, after even the modern official history denies it. The only similarities with so called Slavs and "Thracians" that came is that we share the same roots of origin (Eurasian steppes). Main difference is that the so called "Thracians" just were the earliest settlers on the Balkans, while the other similar ones (including those naming themselves Bulgarians) came later.
As for mixed population, just look at our types - around 70% of the so called Pontids.

PS. Both Thracian and Scythian are terms used for various Eurasian tribes.

[Jarl]

I believe he had in mind Thracians absorbed by the South Slavic element after expansions in VIth century.

[Tabiti]

I believe he had in mind Thracians absorbed by the South Slavic element after expansions in VIth century.
Yes, this is one of the popular believes, since historians always "wondered" what happened to Thracians as one of the largest populations in the ancient world according to Herodotus. There aren't any evidences of "Slavization" as well as significant presence of the so called South Slavic tribes here.

[Crux]

I'm pretty sure that the origin of the European people is very diverse and ''intertwined'' so I think that this is more of a question of where did the roots of our maternal language first develop.

[Cail]

Thraco-Slavs...Never heard so stupid thing, really...I'm amazed there are still people who believe in that theory, after even the modern official history denies it. The only similarities with so called Slavs and "Thracians" that came is that we share the same roots of origin (Eurasian steppes).

There are plenty of similarities between Thracian and Balto-Slavic actually. They weren't Slavs of course, or even Balto-Slavs, but probably closely related to them (us).

F.e. http://groznijat.tripod.com/thrac/thrac_9.html

[Amarantine]

For me it's quite logic that Slavs assimilated all existing tribes or parts of them,Tracians, remaining Roman soldiers, remaining Celts, remaining Saxs and they mixed among them...and after Christianisation , they all stay as Slavs.

[Mordid]

Slavs come from Southern Poland, Southern Belarus and Northern Ukraine.

[Amarantine]

from Mordor-Tau Ceti spase ship got crashed...

ok ok a little trolling...:coffee:

[Swearengen]

Our original homeland was the marshes of Ukraine.

This is the truth. That's where my family is from as well. Most slavic region in the world.

[Lemon Kush]

Northern Ukraine, also the Proto Nordid race originates around northwest Russia/the Baltic.

[Swearengen]

...

[morski]

The Danube basin, from Pannonia to the Northern Black Sea steppes.

[Gospodine]

Iz pizdu materinu. Gdje drugo?

[morski]

Iz pichku tetkinu.:D

[Gospodine]

Evo nas, jebo vas.

Eno mjeseca, govno ti od zeca.

[arcticwolf]

so, what's the latest theory?

[Peterski]

It doesn't matter where we came from, but where we are going to - which lands or planets to colonize next.

[Dick]

It doesn't matter where we came from, but where we are going to - which lands or planets to colonize next.

https://www.fort-russ.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/img_211.jpg