Political protest: would you burn your country's flag?

[Aemma]

A simple enough question at first blush but not really. I'm interested in finding out if you would burn your country's flag as an act of protest or if you wouldn't. Either way I'm interested in knowing why you would choose your course of action or inaction as it were.

I realise that this has the potential to become a volatile topic so let us not lose our heads dear people. Let's discuss and present our views sanely and respectfully please and without judgment if at all possible (oh ya I forget there's a thread on that somewhere too...)

Cheers!...Aemma

[Psychonaut]

Never. Disagreement with a political position or current leadership is not, IMO, reason to disrespect the sacrifices that were made by the thousands of men who died to defend what that flag symbolizes. I would no more spit on my grandfather's grave than I would burn the flag of my country.

[Ulf]

Who says I haven't!

[Beorn]

Political protest: would you burn your country's flag?

No, never. My flag is my flag. It is my emblem. My badge and my banner. It is the physical manifestation of my soul.

[Comte Arnau]

Well, here there have been several Spanish flags burned as an act of protest. But that was because those who burned it didn't feel it as the flag of their country. :)

I personally wouldn't burn any flag.

[Nationalitist]

poll option 4

[Mesrine]

No. Even if this flag is ugly (to speak the truth), I wouldn't burn it, because it's the flag of the French Revolution.

[masty]

Flag burning is great, but I wouldn't burn my own flag, no.

[Ulf]

Liberty is more important than my country.


"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -TJ

[Jägerstaffel]

I agree with Ulf. (image that)

I wouldn't burn my flag - mostly because I tend to ignore politics, but I don't have a huge problem with it.

I don't believe in blind allegiance (I've never pledged allegiance to my flag, believe it or not). A flag is just a symbol - it doesn't represent a country 100%. And nothing is black and white.

[Mrs Ulf]

I agree with Ulf. (image that)

I wouldn't burn my flag - mostly because I tend to ignore politics, but I don't have a huge problem with it.

I don't believe in blind allegiance (I've never pledged allegiance to my flag, believe it or not). A flag is just a symbol - it doesn't represent a country 100%. And nothing is black and white.

Exactly. It is a symbol, and if you believe that the symbol of greatness its suppose to uphold has died, then burning it in protest is fine by me.

I mostly refused to pledge due to the god reference.

[Jägerstaffel]

I refused for the same reason mostly and because I am an individual, not a piece of a larger picture.

[Loyalist]

I do not recognise my country's present flag thus this is a non-issue for me

It may be a meaningless rag, but I still wouldn't burn that excuse of a flag we have now. I certainly won't be burning the Red Ensign when we get it back. :thumbs up

[Treffie]

Never. Disagreement with a political position or current leadership is not, IMO, reason to disrespect the sacrifices that were made by the thousands of men who died to defend what that flag symbolizes. I would no more spit on my grandfather's grave than I would burn the flag of my country.

Yes, these are my sentiments too. I don't really recognise the Union Jack as my own, but it represents the sacrifices that our nation made to defeat our enemies and always will.

[Goidelic]

No I would never burn my country's flag. Never would I burn my heritage flag of Ireland or England. :)

[Jimbo Gomez]

Any excuse to dishonour the belgian flag (the rag, as it is referred to in Flemish nationalist parlance) is good enough for me, but never ever ever for the Flemish flag.

[Tabiti]

Never, since this flag also was carried by warriors, bringing victories. Many men died under it, fighting for the survival of this country.
I'm against the government, the politics but not against my country or nation itself.
I would most likely burn some people I find guilty for the recent situation, but never a national symbol with history.

[Poltergeist]

I can't burn my country's flag since I use it as a curtain for my bedroom window.

[Ariets]

No, I'dnt do it.

Flag of Poland is for me white & crimson colored btw.


And just a note:

to 10 april 2004 was illegal to hang your country's (ie. Poland's) flag in public, I mean on your house, like that link (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/pl/thumb/d/d7/Flaga_polski_przy_domu.jpg/800px-Flaga_polski_przy_domu.jpg). You had only right to do it only when was some special ocasion like state-recognised holiday etc.

[Treffie]

to 10 april 2004 was illegal to hang your country's (ie. Poland's) flag in public, I mean on your house, like that link (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/pl/thumb/d/d7/Flaga_polski_przy_domu.jpg/800px-Flaga_polski_przy_domu.jpg). You had only right to do it only when was some special ocasion like state-recognised holiday etc.

WTF? :(

[Germanicus]

http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n449/ruffusruffcut/RCA7V0EMTCAQA8T53CAIUY65TCANZ43XXCA.jpg

Every Englishman worth his salt has a pair of these madam...:coffee:

[Liffrea]

Not a chance, all because its principles and heritage have been betrayed by a self serving elite that’s no reason to burn it, all you’re doing is the same as the people who wipe their arses with your flag, rights, constitution and freedom on a daily basis.

[SwordoftheVistula]

And just a note:

to 10 april 2004 was illegal to hang your country's (ie. Poland's) flag in public, I mean on your house, like that link (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/pl/thumb/d/d7/Flaga_polski_przy_domu.jpg/800px-Flaga_polski_przy_domu.jpg). You had only right to do it only when was some special ocasion like state-recognised holiday etc.

What is/was the rationale behind that? Poland was never any sort of 'nazi' country. Was it a holdover from the Soviet occupation?

[Poltergeist]

What is/was the rationale behind that? Poland was never any sort of 'nazi' country. Was it a holdover from the Soviet occupation?

Maybe some logic dictating that the flag needs to be protected from trivialization, which would happen in case it were waved and/or displayed all to often and in inappropriate circumstances? Thence limitation of its use to officially approved occasions and holidays only.

[Ariets]

What is/was the rationale behind that? Poland was never any sort of 'nazi' country. Was it a holdover from the Soviet occupation?I have no freakin' idea why was that.

In Polish law you are not allowed to burn any national flag btw., and insulting of national symbols is punished by law (at least theoritically, one celebrity have sticked Polish flag to shit, and that was "ok").

Well Poland was sort of "nazi" country, like "national socialistic" if you look at the part of People's Republic of Poland, especially times of Bierut, Gomułka, Moczar (you could easy call him national socialist or national communist) and Gierek prehaps. Kind of weird mix of "patriotism", localism, antigermanism, socialism et cetera...

[Damião de Góis]

No, even if i don't like the colors and the flag is relatively recent (1910), the shield in the center is about 500 years old and that deserves respect. The flag represents a nation with more than 800 years of history. In fact it's illegal here to slander the republic, anthem, flag, or other symbols. It gives you 2 years in prison, a fine, or community service.

[Loki]

http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=965687

:whistle:

[Beorn]

It's sad that their most prominent member has to come over here for ideas for threads to place upon their shitty forum.

[Aemma]

http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=965687

:whistle:

Wow! I made her list! Do I get a prize? Maybe I'll beat Beornie's record of pilfered posts by a certain someone from elsewhere. ;) :P

[Gooding]

Never. I may not recognize the legitimacy of today's government, but the flag is quite different. I was brought up to respect the flag of my country and to burn the flag of one's own country in my book makes one a traitor.I respect the Union Jack and the Stars and Bars of the Old South almost as much as I do the Stars and Stripes, however and I wouldn't agree to any disrespect to either one of those flags either.

[Birka]

Only if the Ombongo was wrapped in it.

[Lady L]

I would not burn the American Flag. What good is that going to do? What point is that making? It doesn't seem to make a good statement. If one wants to protest that badly, it should have actions that suggest some kind of positive outcome. Not flag burning, fit pitching! :cool:

I love option 4! :D

[Lady L]

It's sad that their most prominent member has to come over here for ideas for threads to place upon their shitty forum.

Just browsing the place I have to say if she didn't post, there really would be no posts! She must like having the place pretty much to herself :D!

That place just isn't what it use to be.:stop00010:

[Amapola]

I would not burn *MINE* but I would burn *OTHERS* :D
Well... not really... the symbolism of burning a flag might appear -direct- and freedom of speech...but I consider it an insult an vandalism, but hey it's a free country :D

[Absinthe]

Option (3) - the current "State" that the flag represents is neither Hellenic nor a State. :....

[Beorn]

Could people who have stated that to burn a flag is to sully the honour of what their ancestors fought for, please elaborate further?

[Treffie]

Could people who have stated that to burn a flag is to sully the honour of what their ancestors fought for, please elaborate further?

Ok, let me ask my dead grandparents.;)

[Beorn]

Ok, let me ask my dead grandparents.;)

They all fought for the British flag? Or did they all fight because they were enlisted to fight? Or 'other'?

I just have trouble getting my head around why people would fight for a flag which individually means nothing.

[Gooding]

Could people who have stated that to burn a flag is to sully the honour of what their ancestors fought for, please elaborate further?

Gladly, Mr.Tyler, gladly. In my view, the flag is a very powerful symbol that represents a government, a land and a people. Many of my ancestors fought on both sides of the Revolutionary War and the Civil War, therefore they fought under two flags, each one representing a specific set of values and loyalties, but ultimately, the flag of the United States was the one that flew over this land.My relatives fought in the two World Wars under the United States flag and came home veterans. For a bunch of wild eyed kids who are rebelling against anything they can think of to burn flags to look cool and concerned is to turn the flag that I was born under and the flag that my ancestors have been born under since 1776 into a cheap rag. I do not take kindly to people incinerating a flag that represents the nation that they live in, might possibly have been born in, that supplies jobs and homes and that represents them abroad. These children mock a history that my ancestors played a part in, they mock the history and sacrifices of the Colonial American people and they should be held responsible for their treachery.

[Amarantine]

Never! It is primitive and rude way to expressed a revolt.

[Rachel]

I would never burn my flag due to the fact that in american the burning of flags has a diffrent connotation... it was or used to be the way you respectfuly got rid of a flag that had started to become worn.

so burning my countrys flags aside from the fact that in an act of poltical protest would be disrespectful it would also show that i have no working knowledge of my countrys history.

[Cato]

Absolutely not!

As much as I may deplore the present state of affairs in the U.S., Old Glory also represents the past, a past that also connects me to my blessed ancestors, such as my late grandfather, a veteran of WW2. I wouldn't besmirch the flag that he fought under. I'm not one for putting forth patriotic nonsense, but, to me, flag-burning of one's national flag is a disgusting and reprehensible deed.

[Beorn]

Thank you for all your answers. Next question.

What if this flag was the very symbol of your oppressors, and was actively the symbol by which you and your nation was being oppressed under? It had sent your people to early graves for profit, sent your loved ones and family to far flung corners as punishment ranging from stealing bread to openly organising unions to help and further your fellow countryman, etc...?

Would burning that flag be acceptable?

[Gooding]

Thank you for all your answers. Next question.

What if this flag was the very symbol of your oppressors, and was actively the symbol by which you and your nation was being oppressed under? It had sent your people to early graves for profit, sent your loved ones and family to far flung corners as punishment ranging from stealing bread to openly organising unions to help and further your fellow countryman, etc...?

Would burning that flag be acceptable?

That wouldn't be my flag, but even so I wouldn't burn it. Flag burning seems rather like bra burning..a very immature way to act out against the Establishment. If my country lost a major war that resulted in my land being occupied by hostile foreigners, without doubt I would join a resistance cell to reestablish my government, but flag burning just doesn't seem necessary.

[Amapola]

No.

[Cato]

Flags normally ought to be treated with respect, even the traditionally-recognized flags of enemy countries. But, for flags like the flag of Nazi Germany, that takes a symbol of luck and hope (the fylfot/swastika) and turns it into a symbol of malice and aggression, I'd say burn it into a pile of cinders.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Wat Tyler
What if this flag was the very symbol of your oppressors, and was actively the symbol by which you and your nation was being oppressed under? It had sent your people to early graves for profit, sent your loved ones and family to far flung corners as punishment ranging from stealing bread to openly organising unions to help and further your fellow countryman, etc...?

You live in the UK Wat, you should know that our worthy leaders mouth platitudes to democracy, liberalism, fairness and justice on a daily basis whilst going out of their way to destroy all of those on a daily basis. You should know that British blood is being poured into the soil of alien lands to bring “democracy” a crude and corrupted imitation thereof for sure, to alien peoples whilst simultaneously the same government that sends them to die is removing the better than nothing benefits that crude and corrupted version of democracy has from the people they are supposed to represent.

Should I give up on democracy, liberalism, justice because those ideals have been warped, twisted, and misrepresented?

I think not.

Nor will I give up on the flag for the same reason, whilst it makes me squirm with anger to see a maggot like Brown wave the flag of Britain and speak of men like Harry Patch, a man who Brown wouldn’t be fit to lick the piss off his boot from, that’s not reason enough to abandon it.

They soil the flag with their presence they certainly don’t represent it.

[Germanicus]

Burning my country's flag?......never. But a Political protest yes...my idea of a non aggressive non-violent protest is voting BNP.....:thumb001:

[Beorn]

Should I give up on democracy, liberalism, justice because those ideals have been warped, twisted, and misrepresented?


I never said we should give up on those ideals and virtues, but give up this false union which is hanging on the thinnest part of it fulcrum. By which, I mean this inherently unpatriotic British flag waving and continued reverence for a flag which taken away means nothing.

The British flag is an alien flag to me. It isn't English and it isn't representative of a nation.

[Germanicus]

Anyone can have the Union jack as their flag....new arrivals from India, Pakistan, the Caribean,
Nigeria, Iran, Iraq, Honk Kong, ..anyone from the Third world can have it....but to a true Englishman we have the St Georges Flag....enough said eh?

[masty]

If thats the case, then maybe England should fight her own battles, going by what is currently being said.

[Beorn]

Anyone can have the Union jack as their flag....new arrivals from India, Pakistan, the Caribean,
Nigeria, Iran, Iraq, Honk Kong, ..anyone from the Third world can have it....but to a true Englishman we have the St Georges Flag....enough said eh?


http://thebluecorner.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/khan1.jpg

;)



http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/11/02/automobiles/480-lewis-hamilton.jpg


Such patriotism. This is what our forefathers died for. If only they were here to witness what they lay down on the battlefield for. All those years of hiding under a table as the Nazis came on ahead and blitzed them from house and home, only for this flag to become the very symbol of our oppression.

People say there was many downturns in English history, some we get taught and some we don't. The most famous taught is 1066, and the least taught was the ascendency of Henry VII, but the one which doesn't join those, and more, is the date 1707. The day England died.

[Beorn]

If thats the case, then maybe England should fight her own battles, going by what is currently being said.

What battles have been fought for England then?

[masty]

You can't blame the flag for what the U.K. has become, thats crazy. Yer an English patriot - and thats fine, but there are people all over these isles that love that flag. And not boat people either.

[Beorn]

You can't blame the flag for what the U.K. has become, thats crazy. Yer an English patriot - and thats fine, but there are people all over these isles that love that flag. And not boat people either.

Do you love the English flag or the British flag more?

If a successful English independence movement was mobilising to usurp the British government, declare independence, abolish the British establishment and all that it is, and rebuild and nurture the the foundations of English law which were long ago left behind, rescinded or completely dishonoured, English culture and cultural identity and English society, would you stand in its path waving the British flag?

[Germanicus]

If thats the case, then maybe England should fight her own battles, going by what is currently being said.

I am sure If SNP get to power and break away from the Union the English will fight it's own battles, ....It would be great to have our Parliment being used for just the English again...:coffee:

[Beorn]

the English will fight it's own battles

I would hope the first thing that happens is England declaring itself as a neutral country. I see no benefit in applying our forces in this day and age to foreign shores to fight for foreign causes to gain foreign assets.

It would be a sweet thing to turn round to America, and the UN, and say: "You want peace and an end to terrorism, you go fight it. Bye!"

[Loki]

http://www.retrochick.co.uk/retroblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/geri.jpg

http://homoveritas.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/bnp_logo.jpg

[Beorn]

There you go. Another fine example: Geri Halliwell of Swedish and Spanish descent and the political party trying to extol nationalism upon a nation that doesn't exist.

[Loki]

There you go. Another fine example: Geri Halliwell of Swedish and Spanish descent and the political party trying to extol nationalism upon a nation that doesn't exist.

You'd hit it and you voted for it. :thumb001:

[Beorn]

You'd hit it and you voted for it. :thumb001:

I'd certainly hit "it", just to make "it" shut up. :swl As for the BNP, I voted for them because they are the only organised party that wishes to pander to my overtly/covertly xenophobic and racist attitudes. I would prefer to vote for an English national party, but alas, none exist...none that doesn't consist of only one man and his dog and/or Steve Uncles at any rate.

[Phlegethon]

I don't have a country.

[Germanicus]

I don't have a country.

In English that should be,,, "I do not have a Country"?..........:coffee:

[Aemma]

Anyone can have the Union jack as their flag....new arrivals from India, Pakistan, the Caribean,
Nigeria, Iran, Iraq, Honk Kong, ..anyone from the Third world can have it....but to a true Englishman we have the St Georges Flag....enough said eh?


Funny you say that Germanicus, since Canada's official flag up until not terribly long ago was the Union Jack as well. ;)

[Phlegethon]

In English that should be,,, "I do not have a Country"?..........:coffee:

There is a reason why I did not capitalize the word "country".

But to get back on topic: flag-burning is so gay. If you want to burn something burn the leaders. This certainly will be more effective.

[Loki]

There is a reason why I did not capitalize the word "country".


Country is not capitalised in the English language anyway, unless at the beginning of a sentence. I'm not sure what Germanicus is on about.

[Phlegethon]

Island apish exceptionalism, most likely. Countries are administrative entities, nothing your heart and soul can get attached to, anyway.

[Sally]

I wouldn't burn a flag, but I'd be tempted to burn heretics. Burn baby, burn! My stepfather doesn't call me Torquemada in a skirt for nothing. ;)

[Phlegethon]

Burning thingies would be much closer to Savonarola, actually.

[Poltergeist]

Burining the flag of the European Union and/or of NATO would be kind-of cool.

Though it would be better to burn the leaders, as Phleggy suggests.

But how to reach them?

[Treffie]

Funny you say that Germanicus, since Canada's official flag up until not terribly long ago was the Union Jack as well. ;)

Even the Hawaiian flag has the Union Jack.

http://www.hawaii1st.com/images/hawaii_flag.gif

[Phlegethon]

All thanks to Higgins!

http://www.magnum-pi.spacejunk.co.nz/images/mag4.jpg

[Liffrea]

Those who say we should abandon the Union Jack and British identity because immigrants claim both, well there are immigrants who claim to be English, Scottish and Welsh, in point of fact the Scots “nationalist” party SNP has pretty much stated any African or Asian getting off the plane at Glasgow airport is Scottish.

Perhaps we should abandon those identities as well?

A true British citizen is of English, Scots, Welsh or Ulster descent, for anyone else it’s just a piece of paper with nothing behind it.

[Freomæg]

No, mainly because there are more suitable expressions of disenchantment. We must remember that when our government is rogue, they are merely hijacking the nation's flag. So to burn the flag does not accurately target an illegitimate government. They have no allegiance to the flag themselves so why would it harm them? The flag belongs to the people who made the country great, not to the people destroying it.

I prefer the act of turning the flag upside down - just a shame it only works for some flags.

[Cato]

Being an off-the-plane African or an Asian living in Scotland just makes you an African or an Asian living in Scotland, just like some Mexican hopping the border into the U.S. is merely an illegal alien in the U.S. who, very likely, will think more fondly of Mexico than the U.S. The flippancy with how issues of citizenship is treated in many modern western countries is appalling. A page can be taken out of the legacy book of old Rome, which did distinguish between citizens and resident/subject aliens in Roman territories- the former had the socio-political benefits and obligations of citizenship whilst the latter were merely residents, usually more heavily-taxed, with very few of the perks of the togaed race.

[Liffrea]

Technically you can be a citizen of any state on earth, at least I don’t know of any states that categorically deny citizenship to certain groups, but to confuse genuine citizenship with naturalisation is wrong.

Granted the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a state as opposed to a nation-state but it is made up of the nations of England, Scotland, Wales and Ulster, there is no provision for extension of that Union, unlike the United States of America, which could well expand the federal state. A Pakistani immigrant may well become a British citizen but that isn’t the same as being British is it.

If England was an independent nation-state we would still have the exact same reality but immigrants would be applying for English citizenship instead.

[Cato]

I like the Roman method of doling out citizenship. In its purest form, the Romans only gave citizenship to those who were worthy and deserved it, say like a foreigner who'd served for years as a member of a non-citizen military unit (auxilia). These fellows could come from anywhere and, after there time with the colors was up, they got the Roman citizenship for years of hard work.

[Beorn]

Perhaps we should abandon those identities as well?

No, that would just be silly. One can stand on firm feet and declare the English as an ethnicity. British is not an ethnicity, which is why it fails to garner mainstream support.


A true British citizen is of English, Scots, Welsh or Ulster descent, for anyone else it’s just a piece of paper with nothing behind it.

Not strictly true. A British citizen is a member of the British Union and the commonwealth. Colour does not factor into who is and who isn't a British person. I did once think it did, but when you consider that the whole of the ideal of the British identity is based upon multiple nations and multiple ethnic identities, it beggars belief that people are excluded from this union.

[Cato]

British is no more an ethnicity than American is, it's just a generic term that's favorably used to imply that everyone within a given country has sameness. I prefer to term myself Anglo or English, since the majority of my ancestry is from the English folk.

[Gooding]

British is no more an ethnicity than American is, it's just a generic term that's favorably used to imply that everyone within a given country has sameness. I prefer to term myself Anglo or English, since the majority of my ancestry is from the English folk.

Excellent point, Pallamedes.:)

[Cato]

More people ought to be aware of their unique ethnic makeup, if even vaguely. Everyone is "not the same" and I often resent being held up as being an American when that term is merely a vanilla wafer. The founding fathers of the U.S. considered themselves to be Englishmen, with the rights and customs of Englishmen; the U.S. was founded as an extension of England, without a monarch. It's a wretched shame that the Englishness has been mostly bled out of the U.S. Imagine Japan without any trace of Japaneseness- the country might still be called "Japan" but if the people there were all bastardized mongrels, as is happening given the inbreeding between the [culturally superior] Japanese and the [culturally inferior] Filipinos, with no connection to Japan's great past, well... So it is with many modern countries of the west.

[Beorn]

British is no more an ethnicity than American is

Agreed.


it's just a generic term that's favorably used to imply that everyone within a given country has sameness.

I can see the cracks developing in the statement already. Is an Black Italian-American fresh off the boat, hailing Mary and the Pope with his beautiful wife of Sicilian descent and brood of children, or the Anglo-American with good old Anglo-Saxon stock with a beautiful Anglo-Saxon wife with children in tow...the same? They are both Americans? And this hasn't raised any tensions in Americas history?

[Cato]

Agreed.



I can see the cracks developing in the statement already. Is an Black Italian-American fresh off the boat, hailing Mary and the Pope with his beautiful wife of Sicilian descent and brood of children, or the Anglo-American with good old Anglo-Saxon stock with a beautiful Anglo-Saxon wife with children in tow...the same? They are both Americans? And this hasn't raised any tensions in Americas history?

For statistical purposes, the black and the Anglo are the same. I was using the term American disparagingly, to be honest. I certainly don't consider myself to be the same as the black, however good he may be.

I see the tensions as resulting more from not letting the different groups identify with their own. Forcing a generic term like American on someone, who more properly thinks of himself as Anglo or whatever, is not going to work.

[Groenewolf]

Option #3 . Our present 'national' flag is not the colors under wich the Geuzen fought under and is the flag of the republican faction. Our true flag, under wich our forefathers fought against the Spanish and under wich those in support of the House of Oranje-Nassau ralied under is still the Oranje-Blanje-Blue.


There you go. Another fine example: Geri Halliwell of Swedish and Spanish descent.

Yes, and we both want to get take that flag of her ;) .

[Æmeric]

http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=965687

:whistle:


It's sad that their most prominent member has to come over here for ideas for threads to place upon their shitty forum.Imitation is the greatest form of flattery. Or so they say. Todesengel borrowed my "Spot the Jew" thread for Skadi. I've borrowed a few of hers.


Just browsing the place I have to say if she didn't post, there really would be no posts! She must like having the place pretty much to herself :D!

That place just isn't what it use to be.:stop00010:Todesengle is the top poster by far this year. Last year it was SwordoftheVistula. There is a diffrent set of regular posters.


Even the Hawaiian flag has the Union Jack.

http://www.hawaii1st.com/images/hawaii_flag.gif

The Hawaiian flag is one of the nicer state flags. Most are pretty dull.


http://unimaps.com/flags-us-state/maryland-flag.gif

Maryland also has a nice flag.


Would You Burn Your Country's Flag?

No. It would offend too many of the right kind of people. By that I mean the ones who give a damn about the future & who also hold tradition values regarding social mores. And who don't like the fact that the old America is being swept away in a tide of immigration, both legal & illegal. That being said, I think there is too much emphasis put on the flag as a symbol. We have no monarchy & no official religion. We do not honor our ancestors & history, on the contrary we are suppose to be ashamed of our racist pass. Chrisitanity is suppressed in the public forum. Instead what we have is a lot of public enthusiam for a piece of cloth that represents a civil nationalism that is unworkable in a multiethnic/multiracial society.

I have a very low opinion of flag burners (in the US) as their motive for flag burning is to be disrespectful for the sake of being disrespectful. They may say they are protesting US policies in Darfur or the war in Afghanistan but in reality those persons are spoiled brats seeking attention.

[Equinox]

Having signed no social contract with the society in which I reside, I would feel no qualms with the burning of a national flag.

[Black Turlogh]

I would burn neither my own nor any other. What's the point of it, really? What purpose does it serve, if not to provoke anger in others? A thing that, itself, serves no purpose as I see it. No. No flag burning for me. Symbolism means little to me, anyhow.

[British and Proud]

Nope. I imagine the people I was protesting against would, though.


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/silverbeam/CSM%20Blog/Muslimdemo.jpg

The great thing about the Union Flag is that it contains THREE crosses! Though, the English flag is the best, as it evokes memories of the Crusades...

[Liffrea]

You would think those muppets would have actually studied what the Union Jack looks like before they made one (badly) and burned it…….

[Beorn]

_tFyYdIbc9Y

[007]

You would think those muppets would have actually studied what the Union Jack looks like before they made one (badly) and burned it…….

If they had any sense they wouldn't be fanatical moslems

[Piparskeggr]

As a veteran, who is the son of veterans (I've found at least one military man in each generation going back to the mid-1600's here in North America), I would not burn my country's flag as a sign of protest. Too much blood has been shed by my family in defense of it and its predecessors, which flew over this land where I live.

Though I find such an act personally distasteful and relatively offensive, I will support the right of anyone who chooses to do so as an act of freedom of expression. That too, is why my family shed blood.

[Ulf]

Flag burning.

jF2iX2VG6e4

[Equinox]

I would like to reiterate and elaborate upon something I wrote earlier in this thread:

I believe it to be only the right of those born into country X to be able to burn country X's flag.

Immigrants to country X should not have this right. Nor should it ever be granted. Immigrants to country X have a social contract with that country. To renege upon such a contract would be to become an oath-breaker and ought to be punishable in a corporal fashion.

[The Lawspeaker]

Burn my flag ? NEVER.

[Equinox]

Burn my flag ? NEVER.

Why not?

[The Lawspeaker]

Why not?
Why ? Because it is the flag of our people, of my country. As a Dutchman it is my emblem. Would you burn your own flag ?


(People that do so are effectively traitors in my eyes)

[Equinox]

Why ? Because it is the flag of our people, of my country. As a Dutchman it is my emblem. Would you burn your own flag ?


(People that do so are effectively traitors in my eyes)

The current flag has not always been the Dutch flag - why do you hold it in such high regard?

People that burn flags are traitors? A flag represents its people, but also its government and laws.

People: from my observations, The Netherlands is a highly multiracial society. Is it truly still the country of the Dutchmen?

Government: appears to be responsible for many of the troubles which are plaguing your country - and responsible for the entry of The Netherlands into the EU. I am sure that you have noticed how I wrote The Netherlands as opposed to the Dutch. It would appear from your political outlook (Direct Democracy) that you must be opposed to the government of The Netherlands taking such action.

Laws: I would not call myself an expert on Dutch law. From what I understand it is based on Roman Law, as is the rest of continental Europe and the EU. Recent trends throughout the Euroblock show the elevation of apparent PC "ethics". I am sure you are able to think of examples where your laws have been subverted to cater to a minority, or adherents of the new PC religion.

Yes, I would burn my own flag - having been born into a society not of my free will. Should I emigrate to another country - no, I would not burn their flag under any circumstances.

[The Lawspeaker]

The current flag has not always been the Dutch flag - why do you hold it in such high regard?
Because it is still our flag. Just the Orange was switched for red. It has been our flag, in the present shape, since 1651.


People that burn flags are traitors? A flag represents its people, but also its government and laws.
Our government does not represent us, neither do the majority of it's current laws and as such does the flag not represent our government and laws. It represents our country and our people.



People: from my observations, The Netherlands is a highly multiracial society. Is it truly still the country of the Dutchmen?
Have you ever been to the Netherlands ? Would you say that here to our face and hope to get away with it ? The majority of the population is still Dutch.
13.5 million Dutchman, some 3 million immigrants.



Government: appears to be responsible for many of the troubles which are plaguing your country - and responsible for the entry of The Netherlands into the EU. I am sure that you have noticed how I wrote The Netherlands as opposed to the Dutch. It would appear from your political outlook (Direct Democracy) that you must be opposed to the government of The Netherlands taking such action.

Laws: I would not call myself an expert on Dutch law. From what I understand it is based on Roman Law, as is the rest of continental Europe and the EU. Recent trends throughout the Euroblock show the elevation of apparent PC "ethics". I am sure you are able to think of examples where your laws have been subverted to cater to a minority, or adherents of the new PC religion.
Well. The government does not represent us at all. So I really don't understand your link government- people- flag. Power and symbolism are supposed to be derived from the people- not from the government. And a government is supposed to be the servant of the people.

The government sold us out. Not our flag. Burn the government I'd say. And the way I see my government is as traitors to the nation.
Am I opposed to my government, of course I am, but burning a flag in protest against people that have betrayed my country, my flag, my people and the ideals on which this nation was founded is silly.




Yes, I would burn my own flag - having been born into a society not of my free will. Should I emigrate to another country - no, I would not burn their flag under any circumstances.
What flag is yours ?


I will go deeper into this when I have more time. I am really busy (despite the early hour).

[The Lawspeaker]

So back to the flag.

Why should I never burn my flag. The reason is simple. This is the flag that led my people through tick and thin.
Whether it be as the Prinsenvlag (Orange, White, Blue) or as the modern red-white-blue this is our flag. Indeed, Dutch laws are based on Roman Law and that was already the case during the 17th century. Why ? Because Roman Law back then was seen as the pivotal of judicial development and it was seen as a fair system. For some time we had the most advanced and honest judicial system in all of Europe.

Now when it comes to PC and the government. The government does not represent us, nor does it represent the country. Because it is the people that forum up a country. The only this government represents are a bunch of lefties, idiotic Christians, the elite and our most recent invaders. Anyways- this country is still ours. Some parts of it are under a kind of occupation so to speak but the majority of the population of the Netherlands is Dutch (and of course the Frisian minority). More then 13 million vs some 3.5 million immigrants and not all of them are actually Muslim. Some 200.000 people in the Netherlands, the silent immigration group, are German.
No one ever hears much about them. If at all.

But back to the government:
Should we vote against them or even rebel ? I think we should.. it is even our sacred duty. Political correctness and it's influence on laws is a relatively new thing. Starting off in the 1950's when the Jews were protected and of course expanding into the 1970s to 1990s.

[Phlegethon]

Some 200.000 people in the Netherlands, the silent immigration group, are German.
No one ever hears much about them. If at all.

Don't make me change that. They are all sleepers waiting for my instructions. One phone call and within hours you'd be forced to eat sauerkraut and bratwurst, kaaskop! ;)

[Atlas]

No. Even if this flag is ugly (to speak the truth), I wouldn't burn it, because it's the flag of the French Revolution.

Exactly. I dislike the French flag but it still is important for the freedom the French Revotution brought. After Napoléon only though.

[The Lawspeaker]

Don't make me change that. They are all sleepers waiting for my instructions. One phone call and within hours you'd be forced to eat sauerkraut and bratwurst, kaaskop! ;)
I'd rather have 100.000 more of you boche around then one more Muslim. After all we are related to each other. :) And you people always fit in nicely and only a mild accent gives you away and we usually wonder "what part of the country" he/she is from.

[Jimbo Gomez]

I'd rather have 100.000 more of you boche around then one more Muslim. After all we are related to each other. :) And you people always fit in nicely and only a mild accent gives you away and we usually wonder "what part of the country" he/she is from.

It must be that our Dutch sounds different from yours, but here you can easily spot a german who has lived in Flanders for 30 years. Even if they mastered the language perfectly, after two words you can spot them as German.

[The Lawspeaker]

Well you can hear it though. But I think that it also depends on where the German is from. A Westphalian sounds different from Bavarian. The dialect that that German spoke in Westphalia would blend in more- in particular since the majority of those Germans that I met moved to Limburg.

According to the Centraal Bureau voor de Statistiek (http://statline.cbs.nl/StatWeb/publication/?DM=SLEN&PA=37325eng&D1=0&D2=0&D3=0&D4=0&D5=a&D6=12-13&LA=EN&HDR=G2,G3,G4,T&STB=G1,G5&VW=T) some 379 559 Germans are living in the Netherlands (2009).
When was the last time a German came into the news or when I even met one. The last time I met a German living in the Netherlands must have been around 1998 when I was still living in the deep south.

[Phlegethon]

Our name is legion. And all your base are do belong to us!

[Murphy]

I would never burn my nation's flag. I have burned other flags ;), never my own.

Regards,
Eóin.

[Amapola]

I wonder which ones :D

[Paleo]

i wouldn't burn <u>any</u> countries flag, flag burning is dumb and juvenile.

if you give respect and you'll often receive it return.

act like a pitiful yob, you'll be treated as such.

[Graham]

wonder which ones :D
^^^ The butchers apron :P . A flags a flags a flag, fuck it. couldn't care less :P

[Amapola]

No way! there are flags and flags :D

[Phlegethon]

Can't we just go back to burning bras? I would burn every country's bras! Hooray for boobies!

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj140/mwzadotcom1/000tyra_banks_bra_burn_2_big.jpg

[Absinthe]

^ Hooray for flaccid boobies if we go back to burning bras;)

[Loki]

^ Hooray for flaccid boobies if we go back to burning bras;)

They can be sexy. ;)

[Absinthe]

Don't tempt me into posting photos with spoiler tags again :p

[Phlegethon]

Better work out then.

[Beorn]

GQLpG5b18pk


It would have had more effect if it was an Englishman burning it.

[Atlas]

Flag burning should remain a custom of muslims retards.

No irishman should burn an english flag, no englishman should burn a french flag over a stupid football game, no frenchman should burn the german flag because OMFG they were nazis not so long ago etc.

Respect your own fellow european.

[Paleo]

flag burning is just like book burning................only cunts do it.

[Amapola]

I prefer taking nice pics with flags, somewhat fetichistic even if it's tacky as it can be :D

[Paleo]

I prefer taking nice pics with flags, somewhat fetichistic even if it's tacky as it can be :D



ditto. :wink

[Osweo]

:wink
You\'re thinking what I\'m thinking, aren\'t you? :naughty:

SHAME on you! :thumbs:

[Paleo]

You\'re thinking what I\'m thinking, aren\'t you? :naughty:

SHAME on you! :thumbs:

Probably :Bondage1:

:fdgd:

[Poltergeist]

No. As much as I detest the current regime, the flag is still flag. Many people died fighting under it for freedom in the last independence war, and in some other wars, so burning a flag would be desecration of their sacrifice. There are plenty of other ways of showing your dissatisfaction and hatred of the government.

[Kempenzoon]

Poll's closed, but in my case the only valid answer lies with "I do not recognise my country's present flag thus this is a non-issue for me. "

I would burn the Belgian flag yes. I don't recognise any authority over the Flemish people coming from the Belgian government though. So to me burning the Belgian flag is no different from burning the Turkish flag (i've actually done that one though.)

The Flemish flag is a whole other question. I have two (plus a Finnish flag) decorating my walls. Hard to burn them like this. :P

[Óttar]

No. Although I prefer the flag of the original 13 colonies, as we need to get back to basics.

http://www.worldofstock.com/slides/PHI1171.jpg

And to a lesser extent, this one. :P
http://www.kohtz.org/images/flag.gif

[Inese]

No i would never burn my flag we are very proud of it!! Our flag stands for independence and pride and no communist can take it away again. :thumb001:

[Wanderer]

No. Never. It is never a legitimate way to protest. The flag is sacred. Burning the flag means you're a traitor who hates his country.