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View Full Version : Genetics: Why many Native American don't look Asian.



ButlerKing
04-19-2013, 04:09 AM
1st theory.

Either because their paleo-Mongoloid as you can see such looks can be found even in Taiwanese aborigine tribe

http://i48.tinypic.com/vn1dzr.jpg


2nd theory.

They have ancient Caucasian mtDNA and Y-DNA.


mtDNA X is proving to have arrived with Native American is found in North America 3% on average and from 1-25% mtDNA X

" Although it occurs only at a frequency of about 3% for the total current indigenous population of the Americas, it is a bigger haplogroup in northern North America, where among the Algonquian peoples it comprises up to 25% of mtDNA types.[9][10] It is also present in lesser percentages to the west and south of this area—among the Sioux (15%), the Nuu-Chah-Nulth (11%–13%), the Navajo (7%), and the Yakama (5%).[11] "

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Haplogroup_X_%28mtDNA%29.PNG

R1b either resettlement from Eurasia or recent colonization but recent colonization seem more likely.


Haplogroup R1 (Y-DNA) (specially R1b) is the second most predominant Y haplotype found among indigenous Amerindians after Q (Y-DNA).[37] The distribution of R1 is believed to be associated with the re-settlement of Eurasia following the last glacial maximum. One theory put forth is that it entered the Americas with the initial founding population.[34] A second theory is that it was introduced during European colonization.[37] R1 is very common throughout all of Eurasia except East Asia and Southeast Asia. R1 (M137) is found predominantly in North American groups like the Ojibwe (79%), Chipewyan (62%), Seminole (50%), Cherokee (47%), Dogrib (40%) and Papago (38%).[37]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Haplogroup_R_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG

3rd theory

The fact that pre-Jomon mtDNA D1 is found at 18% on Native Americans people.
Ranging from 15-35% in the North to 10-55% in the South.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SihOyvwh4zU/TvsS-JMmo1I/AAAAAAAAADs/UQrglXY1H9Q/s1600/Slide13.jpg

Abstract
Ancient DNA recovered from 16 Jomon skeletons excavated from Funadomari site, Hokkaido, Japan was analyzed to elucidate the genealogy of the early settlers of the Japanese archipelago. Both the control and coding regions of their mitochondrial DNA were analyzed in detail, and we could securely assign 14 mtDNAs to relevant haplogroups. Haplogroups D1a, M7a, and N9b were observed in these individuals, and N9b was by far the most predominant. The fact that haplogroups N9b and M7a were observed in Hokkaido Jomons bore out the hypothesis that these haplogroups are the (pre-) Jomon contribution to the modern Japanese mtDNA pool. Moreover, the fact that Hokkaido Jomons shared haplogroup D1 with Native Americans validates the hypothesized genetic affinity of the Jomon people to Native Americans, providing direct evidence for the genetic relationships between these populations. However, probably due to the small sample size or close consanguinity among the members of the site, the frequencies of the haplogroups in Funadomari skeletons were quite different from any modern populations, including Hokkaido Ainu, who have been regarded as the direct descendant of the Hokkaido Jomon people. It appears that the genetic study of ancient populations in northern part of Japan brings important information to the understanding of human migration in northeast Asia and America.

As you can see Ainu are not a Asian looking people

http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/16/4ce277077c6ce2d913ac673ebc4caaa1/l.jpg
http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Reviews/HumanSciences/ainu.jpg

Anglojew
04-19-2013, 04:25 AM
All three and also natural selection since colonising the Americas.

ButlerKing
04-19-2013, 04:36 AM
All three and also natural selection since colonising the Americas.


There is no Caucasoid skull found in Americas, so mtDNA X is either already partly Mongoloid and R1b recent contribution even the red hair mummies are Amerindians. But there is Ainu like Skull which came before the Amerindians more mongoloid looking type. Infact Kenenwick is most closely related with Ainu, either they mated or assimilated.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b50/liffrea/kennewickMan.jpg


And Lucia women who were originally though to be a Australioan aboriginal had facial features like Botocudos people
http://www.laputanlogic.com/images/2003/11/11-Y32XYY1600.jpg
http://img.socioambiental.org/d/216094-1/krenak_3.jpg

Scholarios
04-19-2013, 04:40 AM
It is more or less agreed upon that the varied group "Native Americans" came from several different places and several different times. They are not a homogenous group. Others can cite studies.

ButlerKing
04-19-2013, 04:45 AM
It is more or less agreed upon that the varied group "Native Americans" came from several different places and several different times. They are not a homogenous group. Others can cite studies.

Genetics basically show their mixture of Eskimo, Paleo-Mongoloid, Jomon, with european contribution from Altay region which most likely mean mtDNA X would have come from people who look more mongoloid.

Vesuvian Sky
04-19-2013, 04:46 AM
Until they come out with some very explicit/hard evidence for "Solutrean First" (its not all there yet or as clear as it could be) then 1 and 3 are more likely.

ButlerKing
04-19-2013, 04:48 AM
Until they come out with some very explicit/hard evidence for "Solutrean First" (its not all there yet or as clear as it could be) then 1 and 3 are more likely.

That is exactly what I'm saying.

I'll only believe in the Solutrean theory when anthropologist shows me evidence of Caucasoid skull.

Vesuvian Sky
04-19-2013, 04:53 AM
That is exactly what I'm saying.

I'll only believe in the Solutrean theory when anthropologist shows me evidence of Caucasoid skull.

Not to mention:
-skeletal remains on the east coast of the states that would have autosomal DNA that would cluster to Solutrean era remains
-the appearance of housing units similar to that of "Solutreans" on the east coast

ButlerKing
04-19-2013, 04:57 AM
Not to mention:
-skeletal remains on the east coast of the states that would have autosomal DNA that would cluster to Solutrean era remains
-the appearance of housing units similar to that of "Solutreans" on the east coast

Genetic cluster of Native Americans.

http://signaturebooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/dna2.jpg

Vesuvian Sky
04-19-2013, 05:00 AM
Genetic cluster of Native Americans.

http://signaturebooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/dna2.jpg

Interesting. Source?

ButlerKing
04-19-2013, 05:05 AM
Interesting. Source?

http://signaturebooks.com/2010/06/how-dna-divides-lds-apologists/

But these DNA most likely came from Mexican Mestizo intermarriage. The was many record on this and this explains why their european DNA is smaller than 25%

Vesuvian Sky
04-19-2013, 05:11 AM
Here's the actual article that did the admixture analysis:


Wang S., et al. 2007. Genetic variation and population structure in Native Americans. PLoS Genet 3 (11): e185.

The Cree also have some Euro who are mainly in Canada.

ButlerKing
04-19-2013, 05:13 AM
Here

pure Amerindian Guyami showing non-Asian appearance. This proves the paleo-Mongoloid look theory.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2550/4116932098_db207ef242_z.jpg
http://www.czbrats.com/Photos/guaymi-2.jpg
http://info.bahai.org/images/6_3_1.jpg

ButlerKing
04-19-2013, 05:17 AM
Here's the actual article that did the admixture analysis:



The Cree also have some Euro who are mainly in Canada.


I believe that came from intermarriages from modern Europeans and later these half cree/european intermarried with the tribe


Here Pima 63-70% Amerindian and 30-37% Siberian. I wonder if this Siberian is related to Ainu.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Pima.jpg/270px-Pima.jpg

lamb
04-19-2013, 05:17 AM
As you can see Ainu are not a Asian looking people

http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/16/4ce277077c6ce2d913ac673ebc4caaa1/l.jpg
http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Reviews/HumanSciences/ainu.jpg

I think the second person does look quite Asian. I see a similarity between modern day Japanese and Ainu.

ButlerKing
04-19-2013, 05:20 AM
I think the second person does look quite Asian. I see a similarity between modern day Japanese and Ainu.

You seriously need glasses immediately or this just American trolling dumb opinion. That women looks nothing Asian.

http://www.japanwindow.com/images/20050727043251_050726_matsuri011.jpg

Vesuvian Sky
04-19-2013, 05:21 AM
I believe that came from intermarriages from modern Europeans and later these half cree/european intermarried with the tribe

Yup, that seems to be what the article concludes anyway:


Wang’s team also included Siberians among the populations they examined. DNA that once appeared pink and blue in the Maya in Rosenberg’s work (Fig.1) now appears mostly red because it is more closely related to chromosomes found among Siberian populations (Fig. 2). The small proportions of blue chromosomal DNA in American Indian populations are most likely to be the result of interbreeding with Europeans since Columbus. This is supported by the fact that higher proportions are seen among Algonquian tribes (Cree and Chipewyan) which were heavily impacted at first contact along the Atlantic seaboard. In addition, we see small proportions of African DNA in several American Indian populations, including the Arhuaco (northern Columbia), Wayuu (northern Colombia and Venezuela), and Maya (Fig. 3). The orange chromosomal DNA is most clearly seen in Fig. 2, where it appears above the blue European DNA. These findings are in agreement with mitochondrial and Y chromosome DNA studies on American Indians, which suggest a similarly low frequency of European and African DNA lineages across the two western hemispheres.15 American Indian populations from remote areas of the Amazon, including the Surui and Ache who were only recently discovered, have no European or African chromosomal DNA.

lamb
04-19-2013, 05:22 AM
The facial structure is pretty similar. Plus you're comparing a picture of an elderly person with children.
Ainu are Asian people, so to say they don't look Asian doesn't make sense.

ButlerKing
04-19-2013, 05:25 AM
The facial structure is pretty similar. Plus you're comparing a picture of an elderly person with children

You have to be kidding me man? her face don't look Asian and eyes ain't slanted. Nothing Asian about her at all. She looks just like other Ainu people.

http://www.ainu-museum.or.jp/en/study/img/032.jpg

ButlerKing
04-19-2013, 05:28 AM
Kogi tribe 100% Amerindian

http://www.nso.lt/lucid/women.jpg
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2383/5784534056_7a857673d1_z.jpg

rashka
04-19-2013, 05:39 AM
Kogi tribe 100% Amerindian

http://www.nso.lt/lucid/women.jpg
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2383/5784534056_7a857673d1_z.jpg

They look like Indonesians or Filipinos.

ButlerKing
04-19-2013, 05:47 AM
They look like Indonesians or Filipinos.

Get your eyes check for the love of God.:picard1:

Filipino
http://www.dilg.gov.ph/images/events/DILG_EVENTS_2011323_b0ea99e0fb.jpg

Indonesian
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RN7hTeJIHyQ/S_x5vkGqDtI/AAAAAAAAAF0/P9e0pUe9asI/s1600/indonesian+people+8.jpg

Amerindian Kogi
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2576/3951383801_d6337cdc1e_z.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4043/4426732428_ac4c2de025.jpg
http://cdn3.vtourist.com/15/4965923-Kogi_kids_not_quite_begging_but_soon_enough_Ciudad _Perdida.jpg

VikingCelt
04-22-2013, 01:02 AM
Taiwanese Aborigine and Ainu have nothing to do with Caucasians, they are Austroloid. In fact they are the farthest race from Caucasian you can get.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australoid_race

ButlerKing
04-22-2013, 01:49 AM
Taiwanese Aborigine and Ainu have nothing to do with Caucasians, they are Austroloid. In fact they are the farthest race from Caucasian you can get.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australoid_race


Taiwanese aborigines are dark skinned paleo-Mongoloid.
Ainu are light skinned paleo-Mongoloid.