View Full Version : Уволен врач эстонской больницы, выбросивший паспорт русского пациента
http://www.rian.ru/society/20090831/183132141.html
ТАЛЛИН, 31 авг - РИА Новости, Николай Адашкевич. Администрация больницы в городе Кохтла-Ярве на северо-востоке Эстонии, где проживают преимущественно русскоговорящие жители страны, в понедельник расторгла договор с врачом, швырнувшим в урну паспорт русского пациента, поскольку он не владел эстонским языком, сообщил главврач больницы Кальйо Митт (Kaljo Mitt).
По словам Митта, чье заявление распространила пресс-служба больницы, врач Эйки Страусс (Eiki Strauss) в своем объяснительном письме сослался на Закон о языке и этим объяснил свое поведение. Пациент, по словам врача, не смог изъясниться на государственном языке. "Пациент был русскоязычный, как и большинство людей в уезде Ида-Вирумаа", - сказал главврач.
По свидетельству матери 14-летнего подростка Дмитрия, который в воскресенье обратился в травмопункт больницы к ортопеду Страуссу в связи с травмой ноги, врач по-эстонски поинтересовался, что с ним случилось. Получив ответ на русском языке, Страусс взял его паспорт гражданина Эстонии и швырнул его в урну, сказав, что такой паспорт не нужен подростку, если он не владеет эстонским языком.
"К сожалению Ида-Вируская центральная больница не в состоянии полностью исключить подобное поведение некоторых врачей, медицинских работников или других служащих больницы. Мы просим извинения несовершеннолетнему пациенту, его родителям и всем другим, кого коснулось непозволительное поведение доктора Страусса", - сказал Кальйо Митт.
По словам Митта, врач подобным поведением существенно подорвал доверие к больнице и, кроме того, непозволительно обошелся с паспортом гражданина Эстонии. Главврач также отметил, что Страусс все же оказал пациенту необходимую медицинскую помощь.
"Мы не можем разрешить этому врачу продолжить работать", - заявил Митт, добавив, что в понедельник больница прервала трудовой договор с ортопедом, проработавшим здесь более года.
В свою очередь пресс-служба Департамента полиции Эстонии, сообщила, что "некорректное обращение врача с паспортом пациента" могло нанести моральный ущерб владельцу документа, и он может через суд потребовать компенсации.
"Если документ, выброшенный в мусорную корзину, не был при этом поврежден, то подобное деяние не является наказуемым в рамках Уголовного кодекса. Можно предположить, что этим действием было оскорблено человеческое достоинство владельца паспорта, и у гражданина есть возможность потребовать компенсации морального ущерба в рамках гражданского иска", - сказала в понедельник пресс-секретарь Департамента полиции Нелли Пелло.
Zero tolerance against immigrants who don't speak the native language of the country they live in. That's how it should be.:thumb001:
Actually, I'm a bit amazed. Research shows that at least half of the doctors in Ida-Virumaa have trouble speaking Estonian.
Poltergeist
09-15-2009, 01:48 PM
He was given medical assistance nevertheless.
He was given medical assistance nevertheless.
Sadly yes :(... and the doctor was fired.
Poltergeist
09-15-2009, 02:11 PM
Sadly yes :(...
Sadly??? What about the Hippocratic oath?
Sadly??? What about the Hippocratic oath?
What do you want from the Estonian scum? International humanitarian law and basic human rights is empty sound for these mad dogs.
Sadly??? What about the Hippocratic oath?
Zero tolerance for immigrants?
What do you want from the Estonian scum? International humanitarian law and basic human rights is empty sound for these mad dogs.
This is said by a resident of the least democratic country of Europe.:thumb001:
My country is democratic and everyone have human rights, even the immigrants :(
The Lawspeaker
09-15-2009, 03:50 PM
Zero tolerance for immigrants?
That's not an excuse. Everyone should be helped but immigrants should pay the bill themselves and should not be covered under a countries' health insurance scheme.
There is no excuse whatsoever in turning down someone that requires medical aid. The doctor did the right thing and he shouldn't have been fired. The bill should have been forwarded to the patient.
That's not an excuse. Anyone should be helped but bloody immigrants should pay the bill themselves afterwards.
There is no excuse whatsoever in turning down someone that requires medical aid. The doctor did the right thing and he shouldn't have been fired. The bill should have been forwarded to the patient.
Well, the Russian who didn't speak a word of Estonian got medical aid. Given by the same doctor who threw the passport away. Btw, did you read the article? There have been no cases in Estonia, ever. That someone would be turned down from medical aid. Everyone have the right to medical aid in Estonia and it's free. The medical system of Estonia is even brought as an example in some places.
The Estonian medical system is superior to the UK's medical system (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1100528/Can-really-true-hospitals-worse-Estonias-This-fascinating-dispatch-reveals-shocking-answer.html)
Skandi
09-15-2009, 03:58 PM
Or there should be a provision to bill the home country for the care.
The Lawspeaker
09-15-2009, 04:02 PM
Well, the Russian who didn't speak a word of Estonian got medical aid. Given by the same doctor who threw the passport away. Btw, did you read the article? There have been no cases in Estonia, ever. That someone would be turned down from medical aid. Everyone have the right to medical aid in Estonia and it's free. The medical system of Estonia is even brought as an example in some places.
The Estonian medical system is superior to the UK's medical system (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1100528/Can-really-true-hospitals-worse-Estonias-This-fascinating-dispatch-reveals-shocking-answer.html)
I can't speak Russian and you know that so I had to rely on what others wrote.
Of course the Russian should have been able to speak Estonian or at least English (a neutral language) and the doctor did the right thing in throwing away the passport. If that guy doesn't speak Estonian then what is he doing in Estonia ?
The Estonian healthcare system seems progressive and fair then but you seemed to have been sad that he gave the Russian medical aid ? Don't you think that that is inhuman. Estonians are better people then that.
The Estonian healthcare system seems progressive and fair then but you seemed to have been sad that he gave the Russian medical aid ? Don't you think that that is inhuman. Estonians are better people then that.
There's enough of medical aid in Russia and there's no need to speak Estonian there. People who are openly hostile towards the nation they live in, are hostile towards that nation's native population and don't speak that nation's language, shouldn't receive any benefits from that nation.
That's not an excuse. Everyone should be helped but immigrants should pay the bill themselves and should not be covered under a countries' health insurance scheme.
There is no excuse whatsoever in turning down someone that requires medical aid. The doctor did the right thing and he shouldn't have been fired. The bill should have been forwarded to the patient.
We're talking about an Estonian citizen here. But Estonian Neo-Nazi scum resent non-Estonian residents regardless of their status.
The Lawspeaker
09-15-2009, 04:23 PM
We're talking about an Estonian citizen here. But Estonian Neo-Nazi scum resent non-Estonian residents regardless of their status.
An Estonian citizen speaks the language. This "citizen" is as much a citizen as our Turks and Moroccans.
If that guy doesn't speak Estonian then what is he doing in Estonia ?
Most likely the guy, being born in Estonia, was able to speak at least some Estonian. But as he was sick and his native/first language was Russian it was natural for him to speak to doctor in Russian, especially as the absolute majority of ethnic Estonians speak Russian.
Something like: Doctor, I have terrible pain in stomack, please help!
We're talking about an Estonian citizen here.
An Estonian citizen who can't speak Estonian:rolleyes:
But Estonian Neo-Nazi scum resent non-Estonian residents regardless of their status.
I have no problems with non-Estonian residents. It's just the non-Estonian residents who are hostile towards Estonia and Estonians that I dislike.
I'm not a Neo-Nazi, but you're a Leninistic-Stalinistic Communist, your avatar (http://www.zgapa.pl/zgapedia/data_pictures/_uploads_wiki/c/COA_Estonian_SSR.png) proves my claim.
An anti-European Preservationist (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?u=131) on an European Preservationist forum, the irony :coffee:
Most likely the guy, being born in Estonia, was able to speak at least some Estonian. But as he was sick and his native/first language was Russian it was natural for him to speak to doctor in Russian, especially as the absolute majority of ethnic Estonians speak Russian.
He didn't speak even "some Estonian", he was a typical Russian who is limited to only speaking 1 language. While exchange students from S-America, Asia and Europe learn Estonian in 6-12 months.:rolleyes:
The only recognized national language of Estonia is Estonian. No one in Estonia has to know any other languages except Estonian.
The Lawspeaker
09-15-2009, 04:38 PM
Most likely the guy, being born in Estonia, was able to speak at least some Estonian. But as he was sick and his native/first language was Russian it was natural for him to speak to doctor in Russian, especially as the absolute majority of ethnic Estonians speak Russian.
Something like: Doctor, I have terrible pain in stomack, please help!
He is living in Estonia with an Estonian passport. Hence the language he ought to speak is... Estonian.
Estonian bastards...
Here's the story:
The boy entered to the cabinet and doctor said him: "Tere". And asked him in Estonian what happened. The boy answered him (in Russian, but he was able to understand Estonian) that he has got pain in his leg because he fell yesterday. The doctor then started asking why he was not speaking in Estonian? The boy answered that he can't say it in Estonian [i.e. his language skills are not adequate enough] (again, the boy understood enough of Estonian but had difficulty to discuss such a complicated topic being in pain). Then the doctor took his passport of the citizen of Estonia which the boy brought with him and threw it in a can, saying that if he could not speak Estonian he need not such a passport.
«Ребенок зашел в кабинет, доктор ему говорит: «Tere». И спрашивает по-эстонски, мол, что случилось. Ребенок ему ответил, что болит нога, так как вчера упал. Врач тогда начал спрашивать: почему ты не говоришь по-эстонски? Мальчик ответил, что не может так сказать по-эстонски. Тогда врач взял его паспорт гражданина Эстонии, с которым мальчик пришел на прием, и бросил его в урну, сказав, что, раз ты не говоришь по-эстонски, тебе такой паспорт не нужен».
The boy has not got the medical aid.
He is living in Estonia with an Estonian passport. Hence the language he ought to speak is... Estonian.
You may impress Dutch cows with such "logic", not me. The boy was born in Estonia and has Estonian citizenship. He does not ought anything to anybody.
The Lawspeaker
09-15-2009, 04:47 PM
Estonian bastards...
Here's the story:
The boy entered to the cabinet and doctor said him: "Tere". And asked him in Estonian what happened. The boy answered him (in Russian, but he was able to understand Estonian) that he has got pain in his leg because he fell yesterday. The doctor then started asking why he was not speaking in Estonian? The boy answered that he can't say it in Estonian [i.e. his language skills are not adequate enough] (again, the boy understood enough of Estonian but had difficulty to discuss such a complicated topic being in pain). Then the doctor took his passport of the citizen of Estonia which the boy brought with him and threw it in a can, saying that if he could not speak Estonian he need not such a passport.
«Ребенок зашел в кабинет, доктор ему говорит: «Tere». И спрашивает по-эстонски, мол, что случилось. Ребенок ему ответил, что болит нога, так как вчера упал. Врач тогда начал спрашивать: почему ты не говоришь по-эстонски? Мальчик ответил, что не может так сказать по-эстонски. Тогда врач взял его паспорт гражданина Эстонии, с которым мальчик пришел на прием, и бросил его в урну, сказав, что, раз ты не говоришь по-эстонски, тебе такой паспорт не нужен».
The boy has not got the medical aid.
The boy is at fault. He is an Estonian citizen and he should have been able to speak Estonian.
This guy isn't any different from the Turks and Moroccans here.
He didn't speak even "some Estonian", he was a typical Russian who is limited to only speaking 1 language. While exchange students from S-America, Asia and Europe learn Estonian in 6-12 months.:rolleyes:
The only recognized national language of Estonia is Estonian. No one in Estonia has to know any other languages except Estonian.
Quote any legal document saying that an Estonian citizen HAS to speak the language, that it's his duty.
The Lawspeaker
09-15-2009, 04:51 PM
If I were to become a Russian citizen I would learn Russian and I would learn it well. Tell me- would you be so anti-social, Hors, to move to Germany or the Netherlands and refuse to learn/speak German or Dutch ?
Anyways- If I would go to Russia as a tourist I would bring some phrasebooks. Even if I would be in Russia for only one week.
you're a Leninistic-Stalinistic Communist, your avatar (http://www.zgapa.pl/zgapedia/data_pictures/_uploads_wiki/c/COA_Estonian_SSR.png) proves my claim.
LOL
What is your problem with Lenin and Stalin?
Lenin and other Communist Jews were your partners and cronies, you betrayed/sold the anti-Comunist forces to them and got your independence in reward.
And Stalin was extremely pro-Estonian. He purged something like 0.1% of residents of Estonia, a third of them being Russian, and the rest mostly criminals, while he had to relocate the entire ethnicity to the Polar Circle in Eastern Siberia, to northern outskirts of the fartherland of Estonians...
I hate both Lenin and Stalin.
Estonian bastards...
Here's the story:
The boy entered to the cabinet and doctor said him: "Tere". And asked him in Estonian what happened. The boy answered him (in Russian, but he was able to understand Estonian) that he has got pain in his leg because he fell yesterday. The doctor then started asking why he was not speaking in Estonian? The boy answered that he can't say it in Estonian [i.e. his language skills are not adequate enough] (again, the boy understood enough of Estonian but had difficulty to discuss such a complicated topic being in pain). Then the doctor took his passport of the citizen of Estonia which the boy brought with him and threw it in a can, saying that if he could not speak Estonian he need not such a passport.
«Ребенок зашел в кабинет, доктор ему говорит: «Tere». И спрашивает по-эстонски, мол, что случилось. Ребенок ему ответил, что болит нога, так как вчера упал. Врач тогда начал спрашивать: почему ты не говоришь по-эстонски? Мальчик ответил, что не может так сказать по-эстонски. Тогда врач взял его паспорт гражданина Эстонии, с которым мальчик пришел на прием, и бросил его в урну, сказав, что, раз ты не говоришь по-эстонски, тебе такой паспорт не нужен».
The boy has not got the medical aid.
http://www.postimees.ee/?id=158083
«Hea on see, et ta andis patsiendile adekvaatse ravi, aga halb on see, et ta ei pidanud kinni meie haiglas kehtivast klienditeeninduse standardist,» tхdes haiglajuht.
"It's good that he gave the patient good treatment, but it's bad that she didn't follow the client service standards of our hospital"
Try reading less Russian news, as you can rarely find any truth in Russian news
:coffee:
If I were to become a Russian citizen I would learn Russian and I would learn it well. Tell me- would you be so anti-social, Hors, to move to Germany or the Netherlands and refuse to learn/speak German or Dutch ?
Anyways- If I would go to Russia as a tourist I would bring some phrasebooks. Even if I would be in Russia for only one week.
Estonian Russians are not immigrants, they have not migrated anywhere. Some of them relocated to Estonia just crossing a formal administrative border, others were born there. There was no need for them to learn the language. There is little need for them to learn it now.
They're on their own land.
Is it it much easier to accept Russian as the second official/state language in Estonia? And forget about the issue...
LOL
What is your problem with Lenin and Stalin?
Lenin and other Communist Jews were your partners and cronies, you betrayed/sold the anti-Comunist forces to them and got your independence in reward.
Your statement is wrong. Estonians had to fight for 2 long years to finally achieve independence and liberate Latvia.
And Stalin was extremely pro-Estonian. He purged something like 0.1% of residents of Estonia, a third of them being Russian, and the rest mostly criminals, while he had to relocate the entire ethnicity to the Polar Circle in Eastern Siberia, to northern outskirts of the fartherland of Estonians...
I hate both Lenin and Stalin.
Making the Estonian population to decrease from 1.2 million to 700 000 is pro-Estonian? Are you sure that you don't have any brain damage?
Criminals weren't sent out of Estonia, they were imported. Russians make about 26% of the population here, but around 74% of the prisoners in Estonia are Russians...:coffee:
If you hate both Lenin and Stalin, then stop using their symbolics, you Lenisistic-Stalinistic Commie.
http://www.postimees.ee/?id=158083
"It's good that she gave the patient good treatment, but it's bad that she didn't follow the client service standards of our hospital"
Try reading less Russian news, as you can rarely find any truth in Russian news
:coffee:
She? I was under inpression the doctor was a male :D
The Lawspeaker
09-15-2009, 05:03 PM
Estonian Russians are not immigrants, they have not migrated anywhere. Some of them relocated to Estonia just crossing a formal administrative border, others were born there. There was no need for them to learn the language. There is little need for them to learn it now.
They're on their own land.
Is it it much easier to accept Russian as the second official/state language in Estonia? And forget about the issue...
They are not on their own land. They were brought there under an occupation government. And thus should a Russian in Estonia be very grateful and honored to receive an Estonian passport.
He only has to learn the Estonian language. Seems like a fair bargain because in a lot of other countries they might have been expelled or worse.
Another interesting fact: it looks like the Estonian fascists are firing resident Russian or Estonian doctors from the hospital in question and substitute them with people from the Estonian part of Estonia. Evidently, it was a premeditated provocation.
They are not on their own land. They were brought there under an occupation government.
Their independence was "granted" to them by the illegal Jewish-Bolshevik terror regime. Thus it's void, and "occupation" never happened.
Another interesting fact: it looks like the Estonian fascists are firing resident Russian or Estonian doctors from the hospital in question and substitute them with people from the Estonian part of Estonia. Evidently, it was a premeditated provocation.
It's the opposite actually.
Research shows that around 25% of doctors in Ida-Virumaa have trouble speaking Estonian.
Your statement is wrong. Estonians had to fight for 2 long years to finally achieve independence and liberate Latvia.
What does it have to do with my statement? Have you entered into agreement with the Bolsheviks? Yes. Have you betrayed thew White army in exchange? Yes.
Making the Estonian population to decrease from 1.2 million to 700 000 is pro-Estonian?
Who made it? Are you sure it were not Estonians themselves fucking each other all the time?
Criminals weren't sent out of Estonia, they were imported. Russians make about 26% of the population here, but around 74% of the prisoners in Estonia are Russians...:coffee:
Political prisoners.
If you hate both Lenin and Stalin, then stop using their symbolics, you Lenisistic-Stalinistic Commie.
No, it should remind everyone how generous and kind they were to Estonians...
Their independence was "granted" to them by the illegal Jewish-Bolshevik terror regime. Thus it's void, and "occupation" never happened.
Estonia was declared the victor in that war. USSR was the loosing side and couldn't "grant" anything.
What does it have to do with my statement? Have you entered into agreement with the Bolsheviks? Yes. Have you betrayed thew White army in exchange? Yes.
The White Army disbanded itself...
Who made it? Are you sure it were not Estonians themselves fucking each other all the time?
Are you actually serious?
Political prisoners.
Robbing banks and casinos. Selling drugs, doing everything that's criminally possible makes a criminal into a political prisoner?
No, it should remind everyone how generous and kind they were to Estonians...
Doing genocide on Estonians is generous?
Estonia was declared the victor in that war. USSR was the loosing side and couldn't "grant" anything.
Estonia was not a party of any war. Estonians and Bolsheviks were just 2 terrorist factions first fighting each other and later cooperating against the legal "white" government of Russia.
Estonia and Bolsheviks, being two terrorist organizations, agreed to recognize each other as states, that was the deal.
For me, the Russian Emprire still exist. The day will come and all Bolsheviks treaties will be denounced, and Estonians will be brought down to heel.
The Lawspeaker
09-15-2009, 05:21 PM
Then why use a commie avatar ? :confused:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Greater_coat_of_arms_of_the_Russian_empire.png
I am sure the Estonian coat of arms is somewhere up there.
The White Army disbanded itself...
LOL
Are you actually serious?
Are you?
Robbing banks and casinos. Selling drugs, doing everything that's criminally possible makes a criminal into a political prisoner?
Is Khodorkovsky a political prisoner or criminal for you?
Doing genocide on Estonians is generous?
Can the deportation of 0.1% of population, mostly police agents, criminals and prostitutes be viewed as genocide?
Estonia was not a party of any war. Estonians and Bolsheviks were just 2 terrorist factions first fighting each other and later cooperating against the legal "white" government of Russia.
Estonia was in war against USSR.
Estonia and Bolsheviks, being two terrorist organizations, agreed to recognize each other as states, that was the deal.
Bolsheviks were the only terrorist organization.
For me, the Russian Emprire still exist. The day will come and all Bolsheviks treaties will be denounced, and Estonians will be brought down to heel.
You're a hypocrite, do you know that? You're using Bolshevik symbolics in your avatar and claim to dislike them? You're a Bolshevik yourself.
Then why use a commie avatar ? :confused:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Greater_coat_of_arms_of_the_Russian_empire.png
I am sure the Estonian coat of arms is somewhere up there.
LOL
I doubt Karl will be pleased. It's the coat of arms of Estland, the Russian province :D:thumb001:
The Lawspeaker
09-15-2009, 05:24 PM
Or this one is even better:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Nicolas_II_photographie_couleur.jpg
Nicholas II- the last Czar of Russia.
LOL
I doubt Karl will be pleased. It's the coat of arms of Estland, the Russian province :D:thumb001:
It is at least more "legal" then the judeo- Bolshevist scumbags whose mark you use now.
Estonia was in war against USSR.
There was no Estonia back then. Just some terorist Estonian groups.
Bolsheviks were the only terrorist organization.
Bolsheviks and (some) Estonians.
You're a hypocrite, do you know that? You're using Bolshevik symbolics in your avatar and claim to dislike them? You're a Bolshevik yourself.
I'm not a Bolshevik. I do not recognize their sleazy deals with terorists, like Estonians
LOL
Facts are funny to you? Are you on drugs?
Are you?
I'm serious, when you're just acting like a Troll.
Can the deportation of 0.1% of population, mostly police agents, criminals and prostitutes be viewed as genocide?
It was way more then 0,1%. Try reading some books about history and the deportees were mostly women and children.
Or this one is even better:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Nicolas_II_photographie_couleur.jpg
Nicholas II- the last Czar of Russia.
What are you trying to prove? Why you can't accept that your bullshitting about the need to know the language has nothing to do with reality. Karl does not want Russians to speak Estonian, he wants them out of Estonia, language or not.
The Lawspeaker
09-15-2009, 05:28 PM
I am not trying to prove anything. I am trying to stir you away from judeo-Bolshevistic imperialistic idiocy.
There was no Estonia back then. Just some terorist Estonian groups.
Estonia was recognized as an independent country by several other countries.
Bolsheviks and (some) Estonians.
Estonians didn't murder innocent civilians. Bolsheviks are the terrorists.
I'm not a Bolshevik. I do not recognize their sleazy deals with terorists, like Estonians
If you're not a Bolshevik, then stop using a Bolshevik avatar:confused:
Facts are funny to you?
Post some facts finally, and I'll decide.
I'm serious, when you're just acting like a Troll.
You can't be serious.
It was way more then 0,1%. Try reading some books about history .
I have read all I needed. Okey, it's 0.2% actually, but the number includes a lot of Russians.
and the deportees were mostly women and children
I know, Estonians men are cowards, they have run away :D
Karl does not want Russians to speak Estonian, he wants them out of Estonia, language or not.
Of course I want immigrants out of Estonia, but if they decide to live here, then they should learn Estonian.
Would you want immigrants in your country? Yes or No?
I am not trying to prove anything. I am trying to stir you away from judeo-Bolshevistic imperialistic idiocy.
Russian as the second language in Estonia (30% of Estonian residents are Russian, almost 100 SPEAK Russian). Is it imperialism for you?
The Lawspeaker
09-15-2009, 05:35 PM
Russian as the second language in Estonia (30% of Estonian residents are Russian, almost 100 SPEAK Russian). Is it imperialism for you?
It is if they are there illegally, that is without the consent of the Estonian people, and also behave abysmal.
If they would try to fit in and behave well and if the Estonian population consents then there should be bi-lingualism.
But-if those Russians that were moved here during the Soviet Era and their offspring were to leave there would be few Russians left.
Then the question remains: what of those Russians that ended up in Estonia under the Russian Empire and their offspring. I think that they have more rights to be there then the people that arrived under the Soviet era.
Of course I want immigrants out of Estonia, but if they decide to live here, then they should learn Estonian.
Would you want immigrants in your country? Yes or No?
Russians ARE NOT immigrants in Estonia. An immigrant is a person who immigrates to a sovereign state. When (some of) Russians moved to what is now Estonia, it was not a sovereign state.
Russian as the second language in Estonia (30% of Estonian residents are Russian, almost 100 SPEAK Russian). Is it imperialism for you?
I would say that 50% of Estonians speak good Russian. Everyone born after 1984 can speak some basic(or no Russian at all), because there is no need for it anymore.
The Lawspeaker
09-15-2009, 05:43 PM
And even then I think that that, if I were to believe your fairytale that the majority of those dragged away to the Gulag were Russian, their numbers should be so small that they could just learn Estonian.
It is if they are there illegally, that is without the consent of the Estonian people, and also behave abysmal.
What laws have they broken when they moved into Estonian SSR?
Then the question remains: what of those Russians that ended up in Estonia under the Russian Empire and their offspring. I think that they have more rights to be there then the people that arrived under the Soviet era.
Why? Okey, forget it. You deem that the "occupation" by the Soviets was illegal, while the act of granting independence by the very same Soviets was not.
Typical Western double standarts...
Russians ARE NOT immigrants in Estonia. An immigrant is a person who immigrates to a sovereign state. When (some of) Russians moved to what is now Estonia, it was not a sovereign state.
Bringing foreign people to an occupied country(with a goal of removing the native population) is against the laws of the Geneva convention.:coffee:
What laws have they broken when they moved into Estonian SSR?
Geneva conventions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions)
:coffee:
I would say that 50% of Estonians speak good Russian. Everyone born after 1984 can speak some basic(or no Russian at all), because there is no need for it anymore.
Thankfully, the Estonian birthrate is very low...
Geneva conventions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions)
:coffee:
BS
Bringing foreign people to an occupied country(with a goal of removing the native population) is against the laws of the Geneva convention.:coffee:
Listen, I know you're retarded, so I repeat my question for you slowly:
What laws the people who moved into the Estonian SSR have broken?
Quote the law and show how it could be applied to contemporary inhabitants of Tallin and Narva.
The Lawspeaker
09-15-2009, 05:54 PM
Geneva conventions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions)
:coffee:
The people didn't break it. The USSR did.
Thankfully, the Estonian birthrate is very low...
You're on the wrong forum if you think that low European birthrates are a good thing. Go back to your Leftist forums. I recommend RevLeft (http://www.revleft.com/vb/) to you.
So you guys failed to prove that the Russian residents of Estonia reside there ILLEGALLY.
So,
Russian as the second language in Estonia (30% of Estonian residents are Russian, almost 100 SPEAK Russian). Is it imperialism for you?
It is if they are there illegally
What's about Russian as the second state language in Estonia?
You're on the wrong forum if you think that low European birthrates are a good thing.
LOL
You have delusions of grandeur. Neither Estonians nor Turks, Jews or Gypsies are European even thou they reside in Europe for centuries. The lower their birthrate is, the better for true Europeans.
The Lawspeaker
09-15-2009, 06:09 PM
So you guys failed to prove that the Russian residents of Estonia reside there ILLEGALLY.
So,
What's about Russian as the second state language in Estonia?
Russia has a whole set of minorities. I suppose that Ukrainian is an official state language ?
Russia has a whole set of minorities. I suppose that Ukrainian is an official state language ?
Are you of Jewish stock? Your style of dispute is very Jewish.
And, yes, my uneducated friend, the whole set of minorities have their languages as official in relevant territories.
So you guys failed to prove that the Russian residents of Estonia reside there ILLEGALLY.
So,
What's about Russian as the second state language in Estonia?
The Russians arrived here ILLEGALLY, but after reindependence they weren't expelled from Estonia.
Latvia is 41% Russian, but Latvian and Livonian are the only recognized languages. Why should Estonia adopt a 2nd state language? Only 50% of Estonians speak Russian.
The Lawspeaker
09-15-2009, 06:13 PM
Are you of Jewish stock? Your style of dispute is very Jewish.
And, yes, my uneducated friend, the whole set of minorities have their languages as official in relevant territories.
I am not a Russian and frankly I don't care much about your country. In relevant territories ? Then why should Estonia have Russian as a second state language ?
Why not just in towns with a lot of Russians and in Tallinn ?
LOL
You have delusions of grandeur. Neither Estonians nor Turks, Jews or Gypsies are European even thou they reside in Europe for centuries. The lower their birthrate is, the better for true Europeans.
Are pale white skin, light eyes and light hair, non-European traits? The only non-Europeans you can find here are Russians. (50% of the local Russian population)
Basil
09-15-2009, 06:15 PM
The White Army disbanded itself...
White Army of general Yudenich was betrayed and disarmed by Estonians in late 1919. 5 thousand of soldiers were sent in Estonian concentration camps and Yudenich himself was arrested and released only in 1920 with the help of English forces.
Well, there is some kind of justice imo that Estonians and Latvians who hated Russian Empire and didn't give a damn about its fate and therefore took active participation in its collapse by allying with little Bolshevik monster were subsequently eaten up by mentioned monster when it grew up.
I am not a Russian and frankly I don't care much about your country. In relevant territories ? Then why should Estonia have Russian as a second state language ?
Why not just in towns with a lot of Russians and in Tallinn ?
Russia is a semi-presidential republic, comprising of 83 federal subjects. While Estonia is a democratic parliamentary republic. You can't compare those two systems.
White Army of general Yudenich was betrayed and disarmed by Estonians in late 1919. 5 thousand of soldiers were sent in Estonian concentration camps and Yudenich himself was arrested and released only in 1920 with the help of English forces.
Well, there is some kind of justice imo that Estonians and Latvians who hated Russian Empire and didn't give a damn about its fate and therefore took active participation in its collapse by allying with little Bolshevik monster were subsequently eaten up by mentioned monster when it grew up.
Russian viewpoint of history, one of the funniest things in the world.
The retreating mass was disarmed, yes. You can't call that an army. Without the disarming, there would have been hundreds of deserter squads roaming Estonia.
Those weren't concentration camps, they were medical camps to treat the soldiers.
The Russians arrived here ILLEGALLY,
Why have not you answered my post where I asked to quote the law and show how it could be applied to the Russians residing in Estonia?
I am not a Russian and frankly I don't care much about your country. In relevant territories ? Then why should Estonia have Russian as a second state language ?
Why not just in towns with a lot of Russians and in Tallinn ?
That's exactly what Russians are asking for.
Evidently you don't know what you're talking about... :coffee:
Russia is a semi-presidential republic, comprising of 83 federal subjects. While Estonia is a democratic parliamentary republic. You can't compare those two systems.
LOL
Very moronic statement, typical for Inet Estonians.
Are pale white skin, light eyes and light hair, non-European traits?
http://thestudyofracialism.org/forum/store/aussie-kids1.jpg
http://thestudyofracialism.org/forum/store/aussie-kids1.jpg
They lack white skin, they lack even brown eyes and anthropologically those aborigines aren't European.
They lack white skin, they lack even brown eyes and anthropologically those aborigines aren't European.
Therу are a lot of non-Europeans who have either light hair or light eyes or light skin.
The point is, however, that while Estonians are pred. Europid, they're not European by their origin. They're just... immigrants, illegal immigrants :D
Therу are a lot of non-Europeans who have either light hair or light eyes or light skin.
The point is, however, that while Estonians are pred. Europid, they're not European by their origin. They're just... immigrants, illegal immigrants :D
The original homeland of Finno-Ugrics is more in Europe, then the homeland of Indo-Europeans.;)
It's good you admit that your Fartherland is in Siberia. Don't worry, when Estonians are relocated there, Estonian will be allowed as official language... :D
Basil
09-15-2009, 07:38 PM
The retreating mass was disarmed, yes.
The retreating army, not mass. They were still organized and led by their officers.
Without the disarming, there would have been hundreds of deserter squads roaming Estonia.
And Yudenich wasn't arrested on demand of Moscow Bolsheviks of course. I suppose he was going to become chief of one of deserter squads, that's the reason. :rolleyes:
Those weren't concentration camps, they were medical camps to treat the soldiers.
So we should blame poor Estonian medicine that most of them died in those "medical" camps?
Poltergeist
09-15-2009, 07:39 PM
I would say that 50% of Estonians speak good Russian. Everyone born after 1984 can speak some basic(or no Russian at all), because there is no need for it anymore.
What happened in 1984?
What happened in 1984?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four
LOL
That's exactly what Russians are asking for.
Evidently you don't know what you're talking about... :coffee:
Why I am not surprised not to see Lawspeaker's answer? :coffee:
The Lawspeaker
09-16-2009, 03:18 PM
Why I am not surprised not to see Lawspeaker's answer? :coffee:
Because I was away. You know. I have a life as well. :coffee:
Nah. Your Russians are not interested in bilingualism in the Baltic States. Your minority parties, and it's a public secret, are being by funded by Moscow to cause mayhem. So Russia can Georgia 2008 the Baltic.
Because I was away. You know. I have a life as well. :coffee:
You were ferreting around for hours after I made that post, and I saw you reading the thread.
Nah. Your Russians are not interested in bilingualism in the Baltic States. Your minority parties, and it's a public secret, are being by funded by Moscow to cause mayhem. So Russia can Georgia 2008 the Baltic.
Stop posting drivel and address the issue seriously.
So, Lawspeaker, are you saying that the boy was on the Putin's payroll? :D :D :D
What happened in 1984?
A person born after 1984, would have attended the Estonian school system.
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