Non-Caucasian Whites?

[VikingCelt]

We all know not all Caucasians are White: Arabs, Indians, etc...

But is it possible for some Whites to not be Caucasians?

Meaning not all Caucasians are White and inversely, not all Whites are Caucasian.

I've noticed that some Whites have more neotonic facial structures compared to pure Caucasians from the middle-east.

Swede:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3375/3473409814_e11ce91f16.jpg
Chechen:
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/Gallery_Images/2013/4/19/1366400505773/Tamerlan-Tsarnaev---Ameri-008.jpg
^I have a hard time believing that BOTH these people are caucasian and therefore have the same skull type.

Perhaps we should get rid of the "Caucasian" label.

[Smaug]

You inverted the concept:

All whites are Caucasoid.
Not all Caucasoids are white.

[Vasconcelos]

What's a "white"?

[Dombra]

Nothing wrong with some minor north asian admixture and cold adaption

[The Lawspeaker]

What's a "white"?
Europeans and their descendants.

[Vasconcelos]

Europeans and their descendants.

Yep, that is the original concept at least. We should move to more "accurate" names, tho.

[The Lawspeaker]

Yep, that is the original concept at least.
And that's the only appropriate concept.

[Musso]

Europeans and their descendants.

flawed, outdated, colonial definition.

whites = white-skinned, caucasoids

[The Lawspeaker]

flawed, outdated, colonial definition.

whites = white-skinned, caucasoids
Bullshit. And I am not even a colonial.

[Vasconcelos]

flawed, outdated, colonial definition.
Yes.


whites = white-skinned, caucasoids
Wrong, white was a label started by us Iberians to refer to other Europeans who were in the colonies. A light skinned Turk was not label as such.

[Musso]

Bullshit. And I am not even a colonial.

Not saying you are colonial, but that definition is. White and Europeans should be seperate definitions. Makes little sense for white = european.

[VikingCelt]

You inverted the concept:

All whites are Caucasoid.
Not all Caucasoids are white.

That thinking is dated and not really accurate. Scandinavians seem to be different from the rest of Europe because of Viking heritage which did not descend from Caucasians.

[Musso]

Yes.


Wrong, white was a label started by us Iberians to refer to other Europeans who were in the colonies. A light skinned Turk was not label as such.

Iberians came up with the term 'white'? White just refers to skin color and further more Caucasoids with that skin color. It's a simple descriptive term.

[Vasconcelos]

Iberians came up with the term 'white'? White just refers to skin color and further more Caucasoids with that skin color. It's a simple descriptive term.

In the way we use today, yes, it was.

[Smaug]

Colonials rule!

[Musso]

In the way we use today, yes, it was.

European refers to a geographical area of ancestry. White refers to simply a descriptive feature. The difference is rather clear. I generally see European as a more political term also.

[Anglojew]

We all know not all Caucasians are White: Arabs, Indians, etc...

But is it possible for some Whites to not be Caucasians?

Meaning not all Caucasians are White and inversely, not all Whites are Caucasian.

I've noticed that some Whites have more neotonic facial structures compared to pure Caucasians from the middle-east.

Swede:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3375/3473409814_e11ce91f16.jpg
Chechen:
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/Gallery_Images/2013/4/19/1366400505773/Tamerlan-Tsarnaev---Ameri-008.jpg
^I have a hard time believing that BOTH these people are caucasian and therefore have the same skull type.

Perhaps we should get rid of the "Caucasian" label.


Girl's hot. The only major difference between them, besides skin tone, is their noses.

[VikingCelt]

Dolph Lundgren:

http://burntretina.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/dolph-lundgren-as-drago-will-crush-you.png
His skull-type is not caucasian either. Look at the nostrils and jawline.

[Vasconcelos]

European refers to a geographical area of ancestry. White refers to simply a descriptive feature. The difference is rather clear. I generally see European as a more political term also.


Look, it was a simple way for us to refer to people of European descent beacuse we all have light skin, as opposed to (American) Indians, Africans or whatever. It wasn't meant to specifically refer to ANYONE who had light skin, regardless of his origins - as I said Turks weren't referd as "white", despite many of them having indeed light skin. It exactly because it was so simplistic that it became popular amongst people in the colonies. The very same simplicity means that it's use can be easily distorted, depending on who uses it...which is why I asked "what is a white?" on my first post on this thread.

But yes, it's obviously outdated and should be avoided and replaced with something more "scientific" or "accurate".

[Lorene]

Lundgren looks 'white' for me lol. At least people in US see him as such one. Are you a troll?

also, caucasoids, mongoloids, negroids, and australoids etc, are all outdated terms, old racial science. Modern genetic deny the existence of it.

[mr. logan]

The two nordids are caucasians and the other thing something else. White is not about the color, for being a White other things must be there. Non visible race degeneration is one. Being a tribal part of the techno industrial civilization. A pure color, which may give dominance to the red component of white sometimes. The word pinky that mongrels and sissys like to use is funny. Another modern one would be being surrounded by mixed and non white stuff, trying to convince you they are something they are not. They always try to stick, one way or the other.

[Vasconcelos]

White is not about the color, for being a White other things must be there. Non visible race degeneration is one. Being a tribal part of the techno industrial civilization. A pure color, which may give dominance to the red component of white sometimes.

This is what I meant with distorted meaning lol

[VikingCelt]

Lundgren looks 'white' for me lol. At least people in US see him as such one. Are you a troll?

also, caucasoids, mongoloids, negroids, and australoids etc, are all outdated terms, old racial science. Modern genetic deny the existence of it.

No.

Yes, they both look "White" but not "Caucasian". I am talking about skull type ONLY. Not skin color.

Whites have more neotonic features than pure Caucasians like Arabs. That's why I am saying that some whites do not have a Caucasian skull.

[Smaug]

White = Europeans and their descendants in the diaspora.

Why do you want to make things so complicated?

[VikingCelt]

White = Europeans and their descendants in the diasporta.

Why do you want to make things so complicated?

I'm saying some Whites are not Caucasian. That doesn't mean they're not european or "White".

[Loki]

Meaning not all Caucasians are White and inversely, not all Whites are Caucasian.


No, this is incorrect. All whites are Caucasian (or Caucasoid) by definition. For example, Chinese with white skin will still be Mongoloid and not called white in a racial sense.

[Loki]

I'm saying some Whites are not Caucasian. That doesn't mean they're not european or "White".

'Caucasian' is just a classifying label. It is not specific to people from the Caucasus.

[Smaug]

I'm saying some Whites are not Caucasian. That doesn't mean they're not european or "White".

White is a subgroup of the Caucasoid proper, one can't be white without being Caucasoid.

[VikingCelt]

'Caucasian' is just a classifying label. It is not specific to people from the Caucasus.

Caucasian is too broad a term. It includes Arabs, N. Africans, and Indians...

I am proposing we do away with the term Caucasian and just use "White". There is definitely a huge difference in skull types between Europids and Caucasoids - mainly, neotony.

[Loki]

Caucasian is too broad a term. It includes Arabs, N. Africans, and Indians...

I am proposing we do away with the term Caucasian and just use "White". There is definitely a huge difference in skull types between Europids and Caucasoids - mainly, neotony.

Sure ... then the Saami can become white as well :thumb001:

[Virtuous]

Let me see if I understood the concept:


"Whites" are Europid Caucasians, right?

[VikingCelt]

Let me see if I understood the concept:


"Whites" are Europid Caucasians, right?



If Whites must be caucasian, then that means Finns and Icelandics are not White.

[Vasconcelos]

If Whites must be caucasian, then that means Finns and Icelandics are not White.

Why not?

[Loki]

If Whites must be caucasian, then that means Finns and Icelandics are not White.

The Icelandics are a Celtic-Norse mix, they are white.

The Finns can probably be considered as non-Caucasoid/semi-Caucasoid whites, due to their Siberian admixture.

[Comte Arnau]

Whites can be non-full Caucasians in the US. If they show Chinky admix but they're pale and blond, they're classified as white.

[VikingCelt]

The Icelandics are a Celtic-Norse mix, they are white.

The Finns can probably be considered as non-Caucasoid/semi-Caucasoid whites, due to their Siberian admixture.

How do you explain Bjork?
http://25.media.tumblr.com/be8e89b6a86aec3c81a0724e32489066/tumblr_mg9vyyHfVK1rlbsqeo1_500.jpg

Supposedly, she is 100% Icelandic but not Caucasian.

[Loki]

^ Not all Icelanders look like her, not even average.

She very possibly has some other ancestry long ago, we don't know.

[Lorene]

Her hub.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/f123/katiezo/marchd/bjorkheader.jpg

Poor Palla. :p

[Smeagol]

Sure ... then the Saami can become white as well :thumb001:

Saami are basically White. They maybe have a little Siberian admixture, but I still consider them White.

[Smeagol]

Let me see if I understood the concept:


"Whites" are Europid Caucasians, right?

I wouldn't classify Levantines as non-White.

[Sikeliot]

I wouldn't classify Levantines as non-White.

Levantines are for the most part white. I don't feel some sense of "European solidarity" based on being of European descent to the extent where I could ever look at say, a Latvian or a Finn as being more similar to myself than a Lebanese or an Armenian. I would say I feel 5x closer to an Armenian than I feel to a Finn, Saami, or a Baltic European.

[VikingCelt]

Saami are basically White. They maybe have a little Siberian admixture, but I still consider them White.

Saami do not have a Caucasian skull type though (closer to Inuit), therefore they fail one of the main factors of being "White".

[Loki]

Saami do not have a Caucasian skull type though (closer to Inuit), therefore they fail one of the main factors of being "White".

Well many people regard the Saami as non-white, and one can understand it.

http://facetofacemedia.ca/files/ARKTIKA_Saami_family.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Saami_Family_1900.jpg

[Sikeliot]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Saami_Family_1900.jpg

I'd think that was a picture of Native Americans in the northern US or Canada, or Inuits.

[Loki]

I'd think that was a picture of Native Americans in the northern US or Canada, or Inuits.

I think it's Saami. Maybe we can ask Pall.

[Sikeliot]

I think it's Saami. Maybe we can ask Pall.

Oh I'm sure it is. And it reiterates what I said before. Anyone who would say I should feel more related to a Saami than to an Assyrian, on the basis of both Sicilians (the ethnic group I look most like/am perceived as in America) and Saamis being "European", is an idiot.

[Loki]

Oh I'm sure it is. And it reiterates what I said before. Anyone who would say I should feel more related to a Saami than to an Assyrian, on the basis of both Sicilians (the ethnic group I look most like/am perceived as in America) and Saamis being "European", is an idiot.

Ah, sorry I misunderstood you.

And yes, I agree with you.

[Smeagol]

Well many people regard the Saami as non-white, and one can understand it.

http://facetofacemedia.ca/files/ARKTIKA_Saami_family.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Saami_Family_1900.jpg

''The Sami are no more closely related to the Siberian and Mongol populations than other eastern European populations (Niskanen 2002), in contrast to the historically held view that the Sami are of Siberian-Asian origin. The genetic distances between the Sami and the rest of the world are due to (amongst other factors) adaptation, founder effects and genetic drift resulting from their arctic location and small, isolated population (Beckman 1993, Tambets 2004).''

[VikingCelt]

Scandinavia is like the twilight zone when it comes to Europe because they are so different from everyone else.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Haplogrupo_N_(ADN-Y).PNG/300px-Haplogrupo_N_(ADN-Y).PNG

http://postimg.org/image/4s2gps47h/

Scandanavia had no Roman influence.

[Vasconcelos]

Scandanavia had no Roman influence.

Romans had a neglectible impact on European genes, and many places in Europe were outside their borders.

[suip]

Scandinavia is like the twilight zone when it comes to Europe because they are so different from everyone else.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Haplogrupo_N_(ADN-Y).PNG/300px-Haplogrupo_N_(ADN-Y).PNG

http://postimg.org/image/4s2gps47h/

Scandanavia had no Roman influence.

Finland isn't Scandinavia. And Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia have more N1c than Sweden, Denmark and Norway.

[VikingCelt]

Romans had a neglectible impact on European genes, and many places in Europe were outside their borders.

Well they influenced European culture and language. The roman alphabet is the basis for most European languages, except for Scando.

[suip]

Well they influenced European culture and language. The roman alphabet is the basis for most European languages, except for Scando.
Are you an idiot or a troll?

[Vasconcelos]

The roman alphabet is the basis for most European languages, except for Scando.

What are you talking about?

[VikingCelt]

What are you talking about?

Swedish, Finnish, Norweigian, etc...don't follow the same alphabet progression as English, French, or Spanish. Plus, they have very different characters.

[Vasconcelos]

Swedish, Finnish, Norweigian, etc...don't follow the same alphabet progression as English, French, or Spanish. Plus, they have very different characters.

:confused2:

[Lorene]

Swedish, Finnish, Norweigian, etc...don't follow the same alphabet progression as English, French, or Spanish. Plus, they have very different characters.

Swedish and Norwegian are Germanic languages, full European. I think you are a troll.

[lei.talk]

...caucasoids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race), mongoloids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongoloid), negroids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negroid), and australoids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australoid_race) etc, are all outdated terms (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss1.htm), old racial science (http://www.theapricity.com/earlson/index.htm).

Modern genetics deny the existence of it.
genetic science has disproven any distinctions between the races (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(biology))?


where may we read this evidence?


an url-link (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/misc.php?do=bbcode#url) would be appreciated.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Punnett_square_mendel_flowers.svg/120px-Punnett_square_mendel_flowers.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenotype#Phenotypic_variation)

[Tropico]

Europeans and their descendants.

Not all since im not white yet a large part of me has Euro ancestry.

[Lorene]

genetic science has disproven any distinctions between the races?


where may we read this evidence?


an url-link (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/misc.php?do=bbcode#url) would be appreciated.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Punnett_square_mendel_flowers.svg/120px-Punnett_square_mendel_flowers.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenotype#Phenotypic_variation)

23andme and all other genetic ancestry companies don't use the terms anymore from what I have read, they use ancestry's location (continent) %. So one can be 95% European and 5% Asian.
https://www.23andme.com/

[no limit lurker]

It's conceivable that there are a few people with no Caucasoid ancestry who could nonetheless pass for white.

This Ainu man, if you picture him with thinner eyebrows, no beard, and in normal clothes, could probably pass for a well-tanned European.
http://i.imgur.com/kVjXEM0.jpg

[Smeagol]

It's conceivable that there are a few people with no Caucasoid ancestry who could nonetheless pass for white.

This Ainu man, if you picture him with thinner eyebrows, no beard, and in normal clothes, could probably pass for a well-tanned European.
http://i.imgur.com/kVjXEM0.jpg

I think the Ainu are part Caucasoid. Sometimes they were described as having blue, and grey eyes.

[no limit lurker]

I think the Ainu are part Caucasoid. Sometimes they were described as having blue, and grey eyes.
I don't think they're Caucasoid. But some of them do have quasi-Caucasoid features.

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/6609/2148s.jpg

[Ryuichi Sakamoto]

Levantines are for the most part white. I don't feel some sense of "European solidarity" based on being of European descent to the extent where I could ever look at say, a Latvian or a Finn as being more similar to myself than a Lebanese or an Armenian. I would say I feel 5x closer to an Armenian than I feel to a Finn, Saami, or a Baltic European.

Levantines are part black. They have to 5-15% of SSA genes
http://www.google.co.uk/#output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=levantines+have+black+ancestry&oq=levantines+have+black+ancestry&gs_l=hp.12...3326.3326.0.4663.1.1.0.0.0.0.302.302. 3-1.1.0...0.0...1c.2.9.psy-ab.D27CC5gdreU&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45512109,d.eWU&fp=350f1be9dcd73e69&biw=1140&bih=588

[Smeagol]

Levantines are part black.

No. Or if they are it's minimal. Maybe like 3% from the Arab slave trade.

[Ryuichi Sakamoto]

No.

Yes.
http://www.google.co.uk/#output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=levantines+have+black+ancestry&oq=levantines+have+black+ancestry&gs_l=hp.12...3326.3326.0.4663.1.1.0.0.0.0.302.302. 3-1.1.0...0.0...1c.2.9.psy-ab.D27CC5gdreU&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45512109,d.eWU&fp=350f1be9dcd73e69&biw=1140&bih=588

[Smeagol]

Yes.
http://www.google.co.uk/#output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=levantines+have+black+ancestry&oq=levantines+have+black+ancestry&gs_l=hp.12...3326.3326.0.4663.1.1.0.0.0.0.302.302. 3-1.1.0...0.0...1c.2.9.psy-ab.D27CC5gdreU&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45512109,d.eWU&fp=350f1be9dcd73e69&biw=1140&bih=588

It's still minimal. The ones with 15% black you can tell, the others are White.

[Lorene]

Why was he banned? Only he said levantines are part black lol..

[Sikeliot]

trolling

[Lorene]

trolling

His post weren't more trolling than many here, he was only asking about black admixture. Some Palestines and Lebaneses are part black.

[Maleficent]

His post weren't more trolling than many here, he was only asking about black admixture. Some Palestines and Lebaneses are part black.
About 3 to 7% SSA admixture at the most on average, if even. And even then, it is usually East African, which is Caucasoid shifted, not West African.:icon_rolleyes:

[Harkonnen]

Saami do not have a Caucasian skull type though (closer to Inuit), therefore they fail one of the main factors of being "White".

People here are trolling. Saamis are the purest Europeans. They have the least arab admixture. It must be close to zero.

[Harkonnen]

Anyway what do you mean with caucasian skulltype. Do you mean dolicocecephaplic and with a small braincase similar to negroids? Well that's true, mideasterners do often have tiny heads.

The more yellow the more ancient Euro ancestry you have winkwink

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/Genetika/Uralic.png

[Harkonnen]

I should now mention that these kind of tiny heads look awfully cute to me. Every time I see one, I get a urge to pad it at the top of the head. There, there..

[lei.talk]

Kuu-Ukko http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?76954&p=1532002&viewfull=1#post1532002) Do you mean dolicocecephaplic (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss1.htm#DOLICHOCEPHALIC) and with a small braincase similar to negroids (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss2.htm#NEGRID)?






CAUCASIAN = Europid, in Blumenbach's typology; present popular usage, along with Caucasoid.

EUROPID (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss1.htm#EUROPID) Caucasian or White race (Blumenbach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Friedrich_Blumenbach#Blumenbach.27s_racial_ classification_system)); Caucasoid; European Temperate Race (Agassiz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Agassiz#Controversies)); Homo sapiens albus (von Eickstedt (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egon_von_Eickstedt#Wirken))

One of the major subspecies (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss2.htm#SUBSPECIES) or races (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss2.htm#RACE) of Homo sapiens, indigenous to western Eurasia and North Africa. The most important subvarieties or evolutionary tendencies are Cro-Magnoid (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss1.htm#CRO-MAGNOID) (including Alpinoid (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss1.htm#ALPINOID)), Indid (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss1.htm#INDID), Mediterranid (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss2.htm#MEDITERRANID), Nordid (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss2.htm#NORDIC), Orientalid (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss2.htm#ORIENTALID) and Taurid (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss2.htm#TAURID).

CAUCASOID = Europid; present popular usage, along with Caucasian.


How many a debate would have been deflated into a paragraph (http://web.archive.org/web/20110517124520/http://www.willdurant.com/articles.htm)

if the disputants had dared to define their terms (http://web.archive.org/web/20110517124520/http://www.willdurant.com/articles.htm)? - Will Durant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Durant)


http://i56.tinypic.com/18nokk.png (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/index2.htm)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Wikipedia_logo_3d_gold.png/120px-Wikipedia_logo_3d_gold.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropometry#External_links)http://i30.tinypic.com/scytjl.jpg
*

[Pure ja]

Saami do not have a Caucasian skull type though (closer to Inuit), therefore they fail one of the main factors of being "White".

That is because of the diet and lifestyle.
Look at the saamis that have a "modern" "white" lifestyle and they look like as white as one can get.