Swiss Member of Parliament Has Had Enough!

[Virtuous]

There is still hope, it seems.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pCW2hxux3Ro

[alfieb]

The Swiss People's Party is a great organization. If only Europe had more people like him.

[Virtuous]

The Swiss People's Party is a great organization. If only Europe had more people like him.

Indeed, it's good to hear that there are still politicians with a spine, politicians that are able to persuade people to wake the fuck up from the apathetic state.

[Drawing-slim]

He is an annoying ignorant on kosovo issue obviously.

[Mary]

lol at loser.

[alfieb]

He is an annoying ignorant on kosovo issue obviously.
Clearly. It's not as though NATO made the area predominantly-Albanian-speaking or Muslim. :picard1:

[Mary]

Indeed, it's good to hear that there are still politicians with a spine, politicians that are able to persuade people to wake the fuck up from the apathetic state.

Do you want a career as a cleaner, taxi driver, care worker etc.?

[Mary]

Clearly. It's not as though NATO made the area predominantly-Albanian-speaking or Muslim. :picard1:

They should be happy that they got rid of the place.

[alfieb]

Do you want a career as a cleaner, taxi driver, care worker etc.?
As opposed to your subhuman gypsoid husband who somehow is allowed to live in Europe while he does not work at all. :picard2:

If immigrants from Muslim countries did not do the jobs, someone would have to. They are needed. So locals would be paid more to do them, or Poles or whatever cheap European labor would come and take them. Either way. Better than Pakis and whatnot.

[Methusalem]

Luckily this imbecile is going to be socially sanctioned for his backward, facist, islamophobic views.

[Drawing-slim]

Clearly. It's not as though NATO made the area predominantly-Albanian-speaking or Muslim. :picard1:

It has always been predominantly albanian which happened to be muslims.
Its not as if arabs came and took a european piece of land. This is total ignorance.

If anything this was the most succesful thing Nato and europe has ever done against muslim radicalism.
If kosovo issue wasn't fixed the way it did by nato, today most likely we would have had radicals from saudi arabia in thousands comimg into europe. And who would have blamed kosovar albanians for welcoming them if europe turned its back to us again?

Kosovo was a succes, that guy is a moron.

[inactive_member]

lol at loser.

He overplays it reading the text. The kind of rhetoric is used to attract attention of working class and young people.

[Windischer]

are those his opinions? because hes reading it from a paper. he wouldnt need to look there all the time if those were his own thoughts, right?

it really looks like he just wrote something to bang out popularity points
or somebody else had written a speech and he just read that to bang out popularity points
in both cases he would come out as a spineless populist

or maybe hes that kind of "honest populist", just unable to remember his own speech :picard1:

[alfieb]

Luckily this imbecile is going to be socially sanctioned for his backward, facist, islamophobic views.

Unlikely. His party are the largest in Switzerland, not to mention Islamophobia and xenophobia are part of their platform.

http://www.creativeroots.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/1339641587_43216466d1.jpg
They were able to use posters like this and still get elected. :lol:

[Mary]

As opposed to your subhuman gypsoid husband who somehow is allowed to live in Europe while he does not work at all. :picard2:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqvfRYETTsY




If immigrants from Muslim countries did not do the jobs, someone would have to. They are needed. So locals would be paid more to do them, or Poles or whatever cheap European labor would come and take them. Either way. Better than Pakis and whatnot.

If the jobs paid more the prices would rise. This would mean less consumption of the services. This would lead to layoffs in these fields and higher unemployment.

[alfieb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqvfRYETTsY
Uh-huh. And that video clip (which contains no Sicilians) is entirely inaccurate, as Sicilians have very little Arab DNA, the Arabs were not black, and that Sicilians looked more-or-less the same in the time of Christ as they do today.


If the jobs paid more the prices would rise. This would mean less consumption of the services. This would lead to layoffs in these fields and higher unemployment.
Speculation. Not even good speculation with that.

"If Europeans drove taxis instead of Pakistani migrants, the unemployment would be higher!" :rolleyes:

[Mary]

Speculation. Not even good speculation with that.

"If Europeans drove taxis instead of Pakistani migrants, the unemployment would be higher!" :rolleyes:

No it's a fact. If the jobs paid more, the cost of that would be pushed onto the consumers. If the consumers had to pay more, they would scale back their consumption. When the consumers bought less of these services, the companies would have to fire some of their staff. This would lead to a) higher prices b) worse service c) higher unemployment.

[Mary]

I suggest that you all watch this documentary, http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ae2_1267106610

[alfieb]

No it's a fact. If the jobs paid more, the cost of that would be pushed onto the consumers. If the consumers had to pay more, they would scale back their consumption. When the consumers bought less of these services, the companies would have to fire some of their staff. This would lead to a) higher prices b) worse service c) higher unemployment.

Further speculation. I contend that people who are unemployed would be able to drive taxis, so it, at least in theory, balances itself out.

And I never said it had to be domestic labor. I'm sure people would rather have Poles and Serbs (you know, European peasants) driving them than Pakistanis and Turks.

[Mary]

Further speculation. I contend that people who are unemployed would be able to drive taxis, so it, at least in theory, balances itself out.

And I never said it had to be domestic labor. I'm sure people would rather have Poles and Serbs (you know, European peasants) driving them than Pakistanis and Turks.

Do you deny that higher wages for workers would result in higher prices for consumers? Of so please explain where the money for the higher wages would come from.

If Westerners wanted to drive taxis they would do so. But they don't want to and that's why we have foreign workers.

The East European labor supply is empty. Everyone who wanted to work in the West has already gone.

[inactive_member]

There is little doubt about skilled foreign labour being beneficial to the economies. Migrants work more for less. There are large companies lobbying governments to bring more skilled labour into the countries. However, there are things money can’t buy such social and cultural integrity of the country. The kind rhetoric parliament member used was inappropriate.

[The Lawspeaker]

Do you deny that higher wages for workers would result in higher prices for consumers? Of so please explain where the money for the higher wages would come from.

If Westerners wanted to drive taxis they would do so. But they don't want to and that's why we have foreign workers.

The East European labor supply is empty. Everyone who wanted to work in the West has already gone.
it's funny. We didn't have that problem back in the 1950s. So obvious bullcrap is obvious.

[Virtuous]

Congratulations on derailing the fucking thread by the way,

I won't even bother to answer the stupid comments. As for the Kosovo affair, he is right, Kosovo has been taken over not by force but demographically, until these people claimed that Kosovo is theirs and NATO helped them in seizing it. Even if he might be wrong about Kosovo, the VIDEO IS NOT ABOUT KOSOVO, he is taking examples on how the flood of illegal immigrants in Europe can threaten our freedom. You motherfuckers can't see past the end of your nose :picard1:

Also, ZnZn, kill yourself.

[Austo]

Unlikely. His party are the largest in Switzerland, not to mention Islamophobia and xenophobia are part of their platform.

http://www.creativeroots.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/1339641587_43216466d1.jpg
They were able to use posters like this and still get elected. :lol:

That clearly shows that these people still use their brains.

[Virtuous]

are those his opinions? because hes reading it from a paper. he wouldnt need to look there all the time if those were his own thoughts, right?

it really looks like he just wrote something to bang out popularity points
or somebody else had written a speech and he just read that to bang out popularity points
in both cases he would come out as a spineless populist

or maybe hes that kind of "honest populist", just unable to remember his own speech :picard1:

Perhaps the speech was way longer than that and he had to write points about it? Hell I'd vote for him over any marxist EUrocrat anytime!

[Mary]

it's funny. We didn't have that problem back in the 1950s. So obvious bullcrap is obvious.

That was because it was an industrial economy. Now it's a service economy. They are different things and require different skills.

[alfieb]

Supply and demand.

If the Muslims weren't there to begin with, they would have to charge and pay more.

It's not that Europeans don't want to do the work, it's that they don't want to do the work for the amount offered. Cheap labor always has a hidden cost. :shrug:

Here in New York, we have plenty of Eastern European cab drivers. If I wanted to become a cab driver, I would have to spend a million dollars, or lease time in their cab from someone who has their own cab... and if you don't know someone, it's obviously going to be more difficult than if you're well-connected. Hence why certain ethnic groups (such as your own) dominate the industry, despite it being a job that is fairly lucrative and with a low level of difficulty.

[Mary]

Congratulations on derailing the fucking thread by the way,

I won't even bother to answer the stupid comments. As for the Kosovo affair, he is right, Kosovo has been taken over not by force but demographically, until these people claimed that Kosovo is theirs and NATO helped them in seizing it. Even if he might be wrong about Kosovo, the VIDEO IS NOT ABOUT KOSOVO, he is taking examples on how the flood of illegal immigrants in Europe can threaten our freedom. You motherfuckers can't see past the end of your nose :picard1:

Also, ZnZn, kill yourself.


Do you want a career as a cleaner, taxi driver, care worker etc.?

Do you?

[The Lawspeaker]

That was because it was an industrial economy. Now it's a service economy. They are different things and require different skills.
There is no difference - since wages are wages: there will always be people that don't have the skills required for the "service economy" and it's better them permanently on relief.

[Virtuous]

There is little doubt about skilled foreign labour being beneficial to the economies. Migrants work more for less. There are large companies lobbying governments to bring more skilled labour into the countries. However, there are things money can’t buy such social and cultural integrity of the country. The kind rhetoric parliament member used was inappropriate.

Especially when these foreign workers send their money abroad. Also mind you, there are much more foreign benefit leeches than foreign workers in certain EU states :lol:.

look at this:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/23614068/Benefits-for-Immigrants-Booklet

[The Lawspeaker]

Perhaps the speech was way longer than that and he had to write points about it? Hell I'd vote for him over any marxist EUrocrat anytime!
Well if those Eurocrats would be Marxists then it would be an actual improvement over what we have now. At least a Marxist believes in something other than just lining his pockets.

[Mary]

Supply and demand.

If the Muslims weren't there to begin with, they would have to charge and pay more.

It's not that Europeans don't want to do the work, it's that they don't want to do the work for the amount offered. Cheap labor always has a hidden cost. :shrug:

Here in New York, we have plenty of Eastern European cab drivers. If I wanted to become a cab driver, I would have to spend a million dollars, or lease time in their cab from someone who has their own cab... and if you don't know someone, it's obviously going to be more difficult than if you're well-connected. Hence why certain ethnic groups (such as your own) dominate the industry, despite it being a job that is fairly lucrative and with a low level of difficulty.

What would happen if the services, for example taxi, became more expensive? Do you think people would a) use taxis more often or b) use taxis less often?

You can not compare the US to Europe they are totally different economies.

[alfieb]

What would happen if the services, for example taxi, became more expensive? Do you think people would a) use taxis more often or b) use taxis less often?

Depends entirely on the area. Tourists would have no choice. Locals may learn to drive.


You can not compare the US to Europe they are totally different economies.
There is no one standard in Europe, or in the U.S. I spoke only of New York City, which is an isolate. Here, you need to buy your license, which costs a million dollars. In Washington, DC, a few hours away, there are no licenses. Anyone could be a cabbie.

I'm sure the cabbies in Lillehammer aren't the same as the cabbies in Palermo. In fact, the cabbies in Rome and the cabbies in Palermo are quite different. Same country, in theory. Cab drivers in Sicily are all locals. Cab drivers in Italy are a mixture of locals and immigrants. Cab drivers in New York? All immigrants from the Communist Bloc and South Asia.

[Mary]

There is no difference - since wages are wages: there will always be people that don't have the skills required for the "service economy" and it's better them permanently on relief.

Anyone can be trained to do basic factory work. But most people can't do service work even if you train them. If you place them on welfare you get a permanent underclass, so that's not a good solution. The only solution is lower wages and a lower standard of living, like in the 1950s.

[The Lawspeaker]

Depends entirely on the area. Tourists would have no choice. Locals may learn to drive.


There is no one standard in Europe, or in the U.S. I spoke only of New York City, which is an isolate. Here, you need to buy your license, which costs a million dollars. In Washington, DC, a few hours away, there are no licenses. Anyone could be a cabbie.

I'm sure the cabbies in Lillehammer aren't the same as the cabbies in Palermo.
I think that rules here depend on the municipality (at least here in the Netherlands). Amsterdam is notoriously corrupt in that field and the entire business is just in the hands of a few companies.

[The Lawspeaker]

Anyone can be trained to do basic factory work. But most people can't do service work even if you train them. If you place them on welfare you get a permanent underclass, so that's not a good solution. The only solution is lower wages and a lower standard of living, like in the 1950s.
And now they are on permanent welfare because of the Poles or other immigrants. Solution: try to re-educate those that still can do something else and find jobs for the others. Even if wages go up a bit (Dutch wages have been kept down for the past 10 years and we are falling BEHIND Europe) it would only benefit the wider economy because people can then actually spend money. Foreigners should always be the last reserve.

[Mary]

Depends entirely on the area. Tourists would have no choice. Locals may learn to drive.

The correct answer is that people would use taxis less. And with less demand the taxi companies would have to fire people. Hence higher wages would lead to higher unemployment.

[alfieb]

The correct answer is that people would use taxis less.
You sure do love to speculate. :picard1:

Then again, your entire worldview exists solely in your mind, so there's plenty of speculation required.

[The Lawspeaker]

The correct answer is that people would use taxis less. And with less demand the taxi companies would have to fire people. Hence higher wages would lead to higher unemployment.
The answer is incorrect. Fees are high.. yet the wages for taxi drivers are low. And people still use taxi's. 10 to 15 euro's for half less than hour drive is a common rate. I remember when I had to go from Utrecht Central Station to Amersfoort: I paid 59 euro's.

[Mary]

And now they are on permanent welfare because of the Poles or other immigrants. Solution: try to re-educate those that still can do something else and find jobs for the others. Even if wages go up a bit (Dutch wages have been kept down for the past 10 years and we are falling BEHIND Europe) it would only benefit the wider economy because people can then actually spend money. Foreigners should always be the last reserve.

If the wages were higher they would still be unemployed because employers wouldn't be able to afford to hire them. Lower wages is the only solution in the long run.

[Mary]

You sure do love to speculate. :picard1:

Then again, your entire worldview exists solely in your mind, so there's plenty of speculation required.

If prices go up, demand goes down. Do you deny this?

[The Lawspeaker]

If the wages were higher they would still be unemployed because employers wouldn't be able to afford to hire them. Lower wages is the only solution in the long run.
I think the Netherlands can show you that that's a bullshit assumption: unemployment is 8.1 percent. Wages have been kept down for the last ten years. Consumer confidence is subzero. Try again, please.

[Mary]

The answer is incorrect. Fees are high.. yet the wages for taxi drivers are low. And people still use taxi's. 10 to 15 euro's for half less than hour drive is a common rate. I remember when I had to go from Utrecht Central Station to Amersfoort: I paid 59 euro's.

If you increased the wages, the fees would become even higher.

[Virtuous]

Well if those Eurocrats would be Marxists then it would be an actual improvement over what we have now. At least a Marxist believes in something other than just lining his pockets.

EU has a lethal mix of cultural marxism and commercialism. Socialist economy, now that's another thing.

[The Lawspeaker]

If you increased the wages, the fees would become even higher.
That has proven to be incorrect. As I said: fees are high, wages are low. Try again, please.

[The Lawspeaker]

EU has a lethal mix of cultural marxism and commercialism. Socialist economy, now that's another thing.
Give me the Europe of the 1950s, early '60s any day of the week.

[Virtuous]

If prices go up, demand goes down. Do you deny this?

Actually when demand goes up prices go up, that is how I know it on Earth.

[alfieb]

If prices go up, demand goes down. Do you deny this?
If more people are working, demand goes up. Do you deny this?

[The Lawspeaker]

If more people are working, demand goes up. Do you deny this?
(Added note: because they can actually afford to purchase a service).

[Mary]

I think the Netherlands can show you that that's a bullshit assumption: unemployment is 8.1 percent. Wages have been kept down for the last ten years. Consumer confidence is subzero. Try again, please.

The cost of labor in the Netherlands is €31/hour. The cost in Bulgaria is €3.7/hour. That means that a Dutch worker is 8 times as expensive to hire as a Bulgarian worker. If you were hiring someone who would you hire, the Dutch or the Bulgarian? Exactly. The only solution in the long run is to match the Bulgarian wages. You would probably end up around €15/hour if you factor in wage increases in Bulgaria and the higher cost of living in the Netherlands. So cut Dutch wages by 50% and you will have full employment.

https://www.destatis.de/EN/PressServices/Press/pr/2013/03/PE13_116_624.html

[The Lawspeaker]

The cost of labor in the Netherlands is €31/hour. The cost in Bulgaria is €3.7/hour. That means that a Dutch worker is 8 times as expensive to hire as a Bulgarian worker. If you were hiring someone who would you hire, the Dutch or the Bulgarian? Exactly. The only solution over time is to match the Bulgarian wages. You would probably end up around €15/hour if you factor in wage increases in Bulgaria and the higher cost of living in the Netherlands. So cut Dutch wages by 50% and you will have full employment.
You mean mass poverty and a completely crashed market because we will have SCANDINAVIAN PRICES and Eastern block wages. I knew that you couldn't think when it comes to economics, Mary, but I now wonder whether your household booklet is actually up to par...

[Mary]

That has proven to be incorrect. As I said: fees are high, wages are low. Try again, please.

If you increase the wages of the drivers that cost must be added to the fees. Do you agree with this?

[Virtuous]

I think we seriously forgot what's the original topic of this thread, the problem is not just economy, that loads and loads of immigrants are taking advantage of the welfare system that we pay from our taxes. It's about mass migration, forced assimilation (towards barbarian cultures) that is finally a threat to what European civilizations built with their own sweat and blood. If one denies this serious problem, either he is blind or he's a marxist.

[Mary]

Actually when demand goes up prices go up, that is how I know it on Earth.

Let's say that you buy an ice cream for €1 once a week. One day the ice cream costs €2. Would you buy more or less ice cream?

[The Lawspeaker]

If you increase the wages of the drivers that cost must be added to the fees. Do you agree with this?
No. I don't because as I said: they are not linked. Can you even think economically and politically ?

[Dombra]

A process of democratisation which have taken cebturies must not be halted by camel riders.

[Mary]

If more people are working, demand goes up. Do you deny this?

It depends on the good that is produced. If more people work with producing something that no one wants then demand will stay flat. If they work with producing something that people want then it might go up, but it's not a guarantee.

[Virtuous]

Let's say that you buy an ice cream for €1 once a week. One day the ice cream costs €2. Would you buy more or less ice cream?

Then I'd start making ice cream myself and sell them cheaper to make profit until the motherfucker has to lower the price due to competition. Then I'd buy the ice cream from him.

[Mary]

You mean mass poverty and a completely crashed market because we will have SCANDINAVIAN PRICES and Eastern block wages. I knew that you couldn't think when it comes to economics, Mary, but I now wonder whether your household booklet is actually up to par...

Eastern Europe has Western prices on most things. You will simply have to cut down on spending, which is a good thing because it will mean less imports.

[alfieb]

Let's say that you buy an ice cream for €1 once a week. One day the ice cream costs €2. Would you buy more or less ice cream?

I'd buy the same amount of ice cream, just as when the fares increased for me to get to work, I still took a cab to work.

[Mary]

I think we seriously forgot what's the original topic of this thread, the problem is not just economy, that loads and loads of immigrants are taking advantage of the welfare system that we pay from our taxes. It's about mass migration, forced assimilation (towards barbarian cultures) that is finally a threat to what European civilizations built with their own sweat and blood. If one denies this serious problem, either he is blind or he's a marxist.

The big expense for society is to raise a child from 0-20 years. If an immigrant is older than 20 when he arrives he is a net gain for society because he can start working and paying taxes right away. That many immigrants can't get jobs is not their fault, it's the fault of your politicians and trade unions.

Will you tell us about the time that a Muslim man "forcibly assimilated" you to his barbarian culture? I think you should stop hanging around the docks at night.

[The Lawspeaker]

Eastern Europe has Western prices on most things. You will simply have to cut down on spending, which is a good thing because it will mean less imports.
That explains why Eastern Europe is fucked.

[Mary]

No. I don't because as I said: they are not linked. Can you even think economically and politically ?

Yes they are linked. Labor is the biggest cost for the employer. If you increase that cost, the employer will have to recover it by adding it to the cost of the service.

[Mary]

Then I'd start making ice cream myself and sell them cheaper to make profit until the motherfucker has to lower the price due to competition. Then I'd buy the ice cream from him.

So you would stop buying ice cream. Do you think that the same might apply to other goods and services? For example cell phones, taxi services, etc.

[The Lawspeaker]

Yes they are linked. Labor is the biggest cost for the employer. If you increase that cost, the employer will have to recover it by adding it to the cost of the service.
And lose his customers in the process. Remember why Ford got so rich: because he raised wages and streamlined production. Labour is an investment in his potential customers.

[Mary]

I'd buy the same amount of ice cream, just as when the fares increased for me to get to work, I still took a cab to work.

Okay. But some people wouldn't. They would buy candy instead. Or make their own ice cream. Therefore higher prices would mean fewer sales.

[alfieb]

And lose his customers in the process. Remember why Ford got so rich: because he raised wages and streamlined production. Labour is an investment in his potential customers.
On his own.

Not at the barrel of a gun from the labour unions.

[The Lawspeaker]

So the only way in which you could progressively control wages is.. by price controls. Controlling both the price AND the wages. The government did that here in the 1950s and it worked quite well but to slash wages and prices now would cause deflation and it would destroy the entire economy.

[Virtuous]

The big expense for society is to raise a child from 0-20 years. If an immigrant is older than 20 when he arrives he is a net gain for society because he can start working and paying taxes right away. That many immigrants can't get jobs is not their fault, it's the fault of your politicians and trade unions.

Will you tell us about the time that a Muslim man "forcibly assimilated" you to his barbarian culture? I think you should stop hanging around the docks at night.

The only families of illegal immigrants I see here in Malta, are families of 4-5 each with another baby on the way, and live on welfare/cheap labour. These people are taking over demographically. As for Islam, we all know the possessive nature of islam and how threacherous it can be disguised with these so called "moderates". As soon as you get a neighbourhood that majority is of these scum, BAM rapes, BAM protests to implement sharia law, BAM protests to eliminate everything which is culturally European. But oh wait...you're into this sumbission and bullshit, so what is acceptable for you isn't acceptable for us Western Europeans.

[Mary]

That explains why Eastern Europe is fucked.

It's not. Since wages are lower a) companies invest more in the countries and create more jobs and b) people consume fewer imported goods which leads to a better trade balance. Bulgaria has the best economy in the EU.

[The Lawspeaker]

On his own.

Not at the barrel of a gun from the labour unions.
One of the few employers that could actually think. For the other 99 percent the intervention of unions was a necessity because, like Mary, they couldn't think longer than short-term gain.

[The Lawspeaker]

It's not. Since wages are lower a) companies invest more in the countries and create more jobs and b) people consume fewer imported goods which leads to a better trade balance. Bulgaria has the best economy in the EU.
It works so well that they are all here including you. So cut the crap. What could be done, however, is get out of the EU, reinstate border control and return to the geleide loon- en prijspolitiek of the 1950s by freezing wages and prices for the first couple of years.

[The Lawspeaker]

But yes.. that would mean unprecedented (for the past 40 years) government control over the economy. It would mean that the welfare state would need to be expanded in order to make up for less spending powers along with government healthcare like in the 50s. So you can't have both unrestricted capitalism and third world wages.

And that had it's drawbacks too.. economically and fiscally speaking (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geleide_loonpolitiek):


Dit beleid werd echter veel te lang volgehouden en in het begin van de jaren zestig keerde de wal het schip: er was een zeer aanzienlijk fiscaal onzichtbaar, zogenaamd 'zwart' circuit ontstaan in de particuliere sector waarin werkgevers aan hun werknemers naast een wit, ook een zwart loon betaalden, hetgeen gefinancierd moest worden uit eveneens 'zwarte' omzetten. Zo onttrok een fors deel van de wassende economie zich aan het inmiddels nodeloos remmende overheidsbeleid en benadeelde de staat zichzelf door het gemis aan belastinginkomsten.

That's right. Because of the low wages and low prices.. the government succeeded in attracting not enough taxes and a lot of employers paid both legal and illegal wages. Illegal in the sense that it was hidden and could not be taxed because of it.

[Mary]

And lose his customers in the process. Remember why Ford got so rich: because he raised wages and streamlined production. Labour is an investment in his potential customers.

Looks at my example again, a Dutch worker costs €31/h and a Bulgarian worker costs €3.7/h. Let's make it an even €30/h for the Dutch worker and €4/hour for the Bulgarian worker. This means that you can get 7 Bulgarian workers for the price of 1 Dutch worker. Who would you hire?

[Mary]

The only families of illegal immigrants I see here in Malta, are families of 4-5 each with another baby on the way, and live on welfare/cheap labour. These people are taking over demographically. As for Islam, we all know the possessive nature of islam and how threacherous it can be disguised with these so called "moderates". As soon as you get a neighbourhood that majority is of these scum, BAM rapes, BAM protests to implement sharia law, BAM protests to eliminate everything which is culturally European. But oh wait...you're into this sumbission and bullshit, so what is acceptable for you isn't acceptable for us Western Europeans.

Why would the Muslims want to take over Malta? Would it not be easier for them to just move to a Muslim country and live there?

[The Lawspeaker]

Looks at my example again, a Dutch worker costs €31/h and a Bulgarian worker costs €3.7/h. Let's make it an even €30/h for the Dutch worker and €4/hour for the Bulgarian worker. This means that you can get 7 Bulgarian workers for the price of 1 Dutch worker. Who would you hire?
You can repeat it all you want but it doesn't work that way. I will pick the Dutchman because the Dutchman knows his job and is educated. And first and foremost: he is Dutch. I don't need to hire translators and other special services.

Also: the well-paid Dutchman will be a happy worker who has hart voor de zaak (as we call it here: company spirit) and not just an employee but also a loyal customer. If I wanted to be cheap I would get a ZZP'er but that has some of the same drawbacks as the Eastern European: no company loyalty and no company spirit.

[Mary]

It works so well that they are all here including you. So cut the crap. What could be done, however, is get out of the EU, reinstate border control and return to the geleide loon- en prijspolitiek of the 1950s by freezing wages and prices for the first couple of years.

Look it up,


Bulgaria ranks second in the European Union by most low government debt ratio to GDP at the end of 2012, Eurostat data show. According to information published by the European statistical office last year debt was 18.3 percent of GDP and has increased compared to those reported in the previous year - 16.3%. Lower is the value of the indicator only in Estonia - 10.1%.
Expected for another year with the weakest score according to state debt as a ratio to GDP represents Greece - towards the end of last year its obligations reached 156.9% of GDP. However, the country managed to achieve some reduction compared to those reported in the previous year 170.3%. Remains high and the debt of other troubled peripheral countries of the eurozone - Italy (127% of GDP), Portugal (123.6%) and Ireland (117.6%).

http://bg-daily-news.eu/economy/1695-bulgaria-is-among-the-countries-with-the-lowest-debt-to-gdp-in-the-eu

Leaving the EU and introducing price controls are hallucinations. Stop taking shrooms.

[The Lawspeaker]

Look it up,



http://bg-daily-news.eu/economy/1695-bulgaria-is-among-the-countries-with-the-lowest-debt-to-gdp-in-the-eu

Leaving the EU and introducing price controls are hallucinations. Stop taking shrooms.
Things go so well (in the figures at least) that they all come here, Mary. You are the living embodiment of one of those unwelcome Eastern Europeans and only there because the borders are open and you can profit from our wages and most of what is being spent in Eastern Europe goes goes there via Western Union so please grow up. And it's not unlikely that we will leave the European Union. The single largest party in the polls is anti-European I know the facts better than you do because I live here in this country.

[Virtuous]

Why would the Muslims want to take over Malta? Would it not be easier for them to just move to a Muslim country and live there?

Because Malta has free education till University, Malta has free healthcare, Malta has welfare, Malta's Government is a traitor and gives them the red carpet/all reasons to stay here. Also because the EU won't let them easily into mainland Europe (xcept for taking a bunch of them once in a while, as if they're making us a great favour) , oh the hypocrisy.

Before you ask, no Malta is not a Socialist State, economy is balanced between private and government, there are also private schools, hospitals etc.

[The Lawspeaker]

And why is that the Eastern Europeans can still spend: because they sent parts of their doles and Western wages home to Poland, Romania and the other bananastans. And that's the only reason why they are here: to use our wages and our benefits.

[Virtuous]

And why is that the Eastern Europeans can still spend: because they sent parts of their doles and Western wages home to Poland, Romania and the other bananastans. And that's the only reason why they are here: to use our wages and our benefits.

Bunt don't forget that Poland is into improving economy :lol:.

[The Lawspeaker]

Bunt don't forget that Poland is into improving economy :lol:.
On paper.

[Virtuous]

On paper.

Yea if wages stay the same it kinda sucks.

[Mary]

You can repeat it all you want but it doesn't work that way. I will pick the Dutchman because the Dutchman knows his job and is educated. And first and foremost: he is Dutch. I don't need to hire translators and other special services.

Also: the well-paid Dutchman will be a happy worker who has hart voor de zaak (as we call it here: company spirit) and not just an employee but also a loyal customer. If I wanted to be cheap I would get a ZZP'er but that has some of the same drawbacks as the Eastern European: no company loyalty and no company spirit.

Then you would go broke. Let's look at a real life example, Renault pays it's French workers at Renault €1800/month. It pays it's Rumanian workers at Renault-Dacia €400/month. As a result the Dacia brand has increased sales and the Renault brand has decreased sales.

Mid 2012,


Renault brand sales fell 2.4% to 1,113,913.

Dacia was up 2.5% to 181,280.

http://www.just-auto.com/news/renault-non-europe-sales-hit-record_id125092.aspx

Lower wages -> lower prices -> more sales.

Higher wages -> higher prices -> fewer sales.

[The Lawspeaker]

Then you would go broke. Let's look at a real life example, Renault pays it's French workers at Renault €1800/month. It pays it's Rumanian workers at Renault-Dacia €400/month. As a result the Dacia brand has increased sales and the Renault brand has decreased sales.

Show me evidence ? ;) I don't see many Dacia's here. Mostly Peugeot, Saab, Volvo, Audi.

[Mary]

Things go so well (in the figures at least) that they all come here, Mary. You are the living embodiment of one of those unwelcome Eastern Europeans and only there because the borders are open and you can profit from our wages and most of what is being spent in Eastern Europe goes goes there via Western Union so please grow up. And it's not unlikely that we will leave the European Union. The single largest party in the polls is anti-European I know the facts better than you do because I live here in this country.

This has nothing to do with my argument. Look at where a lot Western companies have moved production in recent years, it's Rumania and Bulgaria because those countries have lower labor costs. If you want to keep those industries in your country you have to match their labor costs.

[dralos]

Congratulations on derailing the fucking thread by the way,

I won't even bother to answer the stupid comments. As for the Kosovo affair, he is right, Kosovo has been taken over not by force but demographically, until these people claimed that Kosovo is theirs and NATO helped them in seizing it. Even if he might be wrong about Kosovo, the VIDEO IS NOT ABOUT KOSOVO, he is taking examples on how the flood of illegal immigrants in Europe can threaten our freedom. You motherfuckers can't see past the end of your nose :picard1:

Also, ZnZn, kill yourself.
except that the example of kosova is wrong since the albanians were not immigrants but the natives of the land,he could use kosova as an example if he said that servia tried to colonized it with servs but failed see its even a successtory

[Mary]

Because Malta has free education till University, Malta has free healthcare, Malta has welfare, Malta's Government is a traitor and gives them the red carpet/all reasons to stay here. Also because the EU won't let them easily into mainland Europe (xcept for taking a bunch of them once in a while, as if they're making us a great favour) , oh the hypocrisy.

Before you ask, no Malta is not a Socialist State, economy is balanced between private and government, there are also private schools, hospitals etc.

Devout Muslims don't care about these things. They care about living in an Islamic state.

[The Lawspeaker]

This has nothing to do with my argument. Look at where a lot Western companies have moved production in recent years, it's Rumania and Bulgaria because those countries have lower labor costs. If you want to keep those industries in your country you have to match their labor costs.

Of course it has. That's why I mentioned it. Ooh no: we don't have to: just leave the European Union and put severe import duties on them. Their "lower labour costs" (it's labour btw. we are European. British English, please) are not the problem - the EU is destroys the independence of nation to set their own socio-economic policy.

[Virtuous]

except that the example of kosova is wrong since the albanians were not immigrants but the natives of the land,he could use kosova as an example if he said that servia tried to colonized it with servs but failed see its even a successtory

Fine, I'll always remain impartial to this conflict anyway.

[inactive_member]

Looks at my example again, a Dutch worker costs €31/h and a Bulgarian worker costs €3.7/h. Let's make it an even €30/h for the Dutch worker and €4/hour for the Bulgarian worker. This means that you can get 7 Bulgarian workers for the price of 1 Dutch worker. Who would you hire?

Employment of Bulgarian worker for €3.7/h is unlikely as the cost of living is higher in Holland. Bulgarian workers will need to cover basic expenses in Holland retaining some margin of profit for themselves. So, the cost of Bulgarian labour will not very much lower in Holland. However, immigrants ( I am talking about skilled labour or professionals picked by employers), will bring competition to job markets. Locals will require to compete for vacancies offering more skills and work better done. This in turn may create new opportunities for investors to start-up companies or existing companies to expand their businesses creating more jobs for people. This will increase economic growth i.e. more goods and services produced in a given time. So, skilled labour is beneficial to the economy of the country anyway one looks at it. The new world is built by migrants. It’s also a bargain to bring a young educated or talented employee considering taxpayers haven’t spent a penny on his or her education.

There are drawbacks. Some people will be priced out of the job market receiving welfare or forced to go elsewhere searching for work. Some will be inconvenienced requiring to work more for less staying competitive. There is also plenty of work lost through outsourcing to other countries which is another story. The biggest concern is migrants bringing demographic and cultural changes to the country.

PS I am not a migrant in Western Europe and I don’t plan going that way. So, I don’t have vested interest.

[dralos]

Of course it has. That's why I mentioned it. Ooh no: we don't have to: just leave the European Union and put severe import duties on them.
they move it to those countries bcs the goverment doesnt give a danm about their people,even in kosova the wages are higher than there

[Mary]

Show me evidence ? ;) I don't see many Dacia's here. Mostly Peugeot, Saab, Volvo, Audi.

I added to my post. Or you can just google it,


But the biggest surprises are yet to come… Similarly to France where Dacia placed the Duster at #5 and the Sandero at #9 over 6 months 2012, the French/Romanian brand does not sell much to rental companies or administrations and as a result the Dacia Duster ranks at an amazing 7th place in the Private Sales ranking (vs. #33 overall) with 1,915 sales and a stunning 90% PS ratio, by far the best in the Top 20. In the overall ranking, you will never see a foreign model placed that high (except in 2009 when cash-for-clunkers messed up everything) so it is quite revealing to see that ‘true’ German consumers actually buy foreign brands en masse as well as their national ones.

http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2012/08/28/germany-july-2012-private-sales-dacia-duster-7/

[Virtuous]

Devout Muslims don't care about moderate Islam. They care about converting the whole world to Kebablandiastan.

fix'd.

[The Lawspeaker]

they move it to those countries bcs the goverment doesnt give a danm about their people,even in kosova the wages are higher than there
Exactly. And I think that Mary's point of view are a bit backward. They used to claim this 15 years ago but then came the year 2008 and the economic crisis and a lot of Dutch people that could have had a stable job went under.

[The Lawspeaker]

I added to my post. Or you can just google it,



http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2012/08/28/germany-july-2012-private-sales-dacia-duster-7/
Figures say one thing. I have only see a couple of Dacia's here per year. And I, same with Škoda (despite of all the marketing) always tend to look at them because I don't see them very often. It's usually Swedish, French or German here on the road. Japanese were popular in the 1980s. Before that Dutch, German and American brands.

[dralos]

Exactly. And I think that Mary's point of view are a bit backward. They used to claim this 15 years ago but then came the year 2008 and the economic crisis and a lot of Dutch people that could have had a stable job went under.
those factories in romania and bulgaria only help dirty politicians bcs the people there arent getting any better and thats why they move to holland or other richer countries despite of those factories there.if the goverment there made the wages higher it would also benefit the locals and improve situations of dutchmen forexample

[Drawing-slim]

Luckily this imbecile is going to be socially sanctioned for his backward, facist, islamophobic views.


Congratulations on derailing the fucking thread by the way,

I won't even bother to answer the stupid comments. As for the Kosovo affair, he is right, Kosovo has been taken over not by force but demographically, until these people claimed that Kosovo is theirs and NATO helped them in seizing it. Even if he might be wrong about
Kosovo, the VIDEO IS NOT ABOUT KOSOVO, he is taking examples on how the flood of illegal immigrants in Europe can threaten our freedom. You motherfuckers can't see past the end of your nose :picard1
Also, ZnZn, kill yourself.
You're just being very stupid. Sure its not about kosovo but he is fucking wrong as you're.
And discussing about kosovo here wasn't at all off topic since he uses that as an example and ignorants like you claping.
"Muslim" albanians didn't steal anyones land as i maded clear ony post.

If you're sick and tired hearing about kosovo threads, just imagine hoe sick and tired a kosovar who has been in his land for 5thousand years hearing a shmuck swiss and you calling him an invador of his own land, because he is a "muslim"!
don't be an idiot please. I didn't derail your thread.

[The Lawspeaker]

those factories in romania and bulgaria only help dirty politicians bcs the people there arent getting any better and thats why they move to holland or other richer countries despite of those factories there
Those factories are usually co-owned by local politicians and the mob that take protection money from the companies. Well it's a well-known story here.

[dralos]

Those factories are usually co-owned by local politicians and the mob that take protection money from the companies. Well it's a well-known story here.
yes its all part of the big corruption and its something that will not last since its foundation is struggling to keep it hold

[The Lawspeaker]

Another lovely example that comes to mind: Back in the day (1980s, early to mid 1990s) wages were also kept low while prices remained high and getting higher as major services were privatised. Unemployment was around 12 percent but around 50 percent for young people. Interest rates were a whooping 13 percent around 1983, 1984.

Does it remind you of something ? I am sure Greeks will be looking up now and say "Sweet Jesus !" I am not talking about a third world hellhole here: I am talking about the Netherlands. And I am talking about Britain too with it's low wages and high prices. Why didn't it work ? That's simple: wages were low, easy hire, easy fire. The entrepreneur had plenty of unemployed and destitute people to choose from.

[Mary]

And why is that the Eastern Europeans can still spend: because they sent parts of their doles and Western wages home to Poland, Romania and the other bananastans. And that's the only reason why they are here: to use our wages and our benefits.

They buy mostly Western goods so the money ends up in Western Europe anyway.

[Virtuous]

You're just being very stupid. Sure its not about kosovo but he is fucking wrong as you're.
And discussing about kosovo here wasn't at all off topic as he uses that as an example and ignorants like claping.
"Muslim" albanians didn't steal anyones land as i maded clear ony post.

If you're sick and tired hearing about kosovo threads, just imagine a kosovar who has been in his land for 5thousand years hearing a shmuck swiss and you calling him an invador of his own land, because he is a "muslim"!
don't be an idiot.

I'm not being stupid, I'm being realistic. Countries can be seized just by mass immigration, the most obvious example is America. So yes he is right in what he said regardless of who really was the original Kosovar, I really don't give a damn.

and yes, call me a hypocrite if you want, I won't ever sympathize with Islamic people.

[dralos]

I'm not being stupid, I'm being realistic. Countries can be seized just by mass immigration, the most obvious example is America. So yes he is right in what he said regardless of who really was the original Kosovar, I really don't give a damn.
america isnt comparable with europe since in america there was genocide by the foreigners and not in europe

[The Lawspeaker]

They buy mostly Western goods so the money ends up in Western Europe anyway.
Or so you claim. Well then they are living on the never never because they can't bloody afford them.

[Drawing-slim]

I suggest that you all watch this documentary, http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ae2_1267106610

Interesting. I watched the whole thing.

[Virtuous]

america isnt comparable with europe since in america there was genocide by the foreigners and not in europe

Race mixing and forced assimilation is also another form of genocide. Look at France or England for example.

[Mary]

Figures say one thing. I have only see a couple of Dacia's here per year. And I, same with Škoda (despite of all the marketing) always tend to look at them because I don't see them very often. It's usually Swedish, French or German here on the road. Japanese were popular in the 1980s. Before that Dutch, German and American brands.

Use your common sense, a Dacia starts at about €10.000. A Renault starts at around €20.000. And a BMW starts at €30.000. Unless they come down in price Western manufacturers are not going to be able to compete.

[The Lawspeaker]

Which now brings me to the next one: the Eastern economy is "booming" due to low wages. They buy Western stuff (says Mary) but they obviously can't afford them. Hmm.. has this not happened before ? You know.. all over Europe and the United States for the past 20 years ?

Now we know where the next credit crunch will be: Eastern Europe.

[The Lawspeaker]

Use your common sense, a Dacia starts at about €10.000. A Renault starts at around €20.000. And a BMW starts at €30.000. Unless they come down in price Western manufacturers are not going to be able to compete.
You can claim all you want, Mary. I don't see many of them here. Maybe because they are piece of shit cars.

[Mary]

Another lovely example that comes to mind: Back in the day (1980s, early to mid 1990s) wages were also kept low while prices remained high and getting higher as major services were privatised. Unemployment was around 12 percent but around 50 percent for young people. Interest rates were a whooping 13 percent around 1983, 1984.

Does it remind you of something ? I am sure Greeks will be looking up now and say "Sweet Jesus !" I am not talking about a third world hellhole here: I am talking about the Netherlands. And I am talking about Britain too with it's low wages and high prices. Why didn't it work ? That's simple: wages were low, easy hire, easy fire. The entrepreneur had plenty of unemployed and destitute people to choose from.

I'm not talking about keeping wages down, you need to cut wages by about 50%, so if a Dutch employee makes €2000 net per month, he needs to go down to €1000 net per month. That is approximately the price point where he will be competitive with Eastern European and Southern European workers.

[Drawing-slim]

I'm not being stupid, I'm being realistic. Countries can be seized just by mass immigration, the most obvious example is America. So yes he is right in what he said regardless of who really was the original Kosovar, I really don't give a damn.

and yes, call me a hypocrite if you want, I won't ever sympathize with Islamic people.

Be my guest, but you're not making any sense comparing kosovo with mass immigration in europe or usa.
Is very bad example:D

[The Lawspeaker]

I'm not talking about keeping wages down, you need to cut wages by about 50%, so if a Dutch employee makes €2000 net per month, he needs to go down to €1000 net per month. That is approximately the price point where he will be competitive with Eastern European and Southern European workers.

That's even more outrageously stupid. It would crash the economy. Completely even. Everyone's wage would just be to cover the most basic expenses (and fail at that one).

[Mary]

Or so you claim. Well then they are living on the never never because they can't bloody afford them.

They obviously consume much less than people in Western Europe. But still a big part of the money ends up with Western companies.

[Mary]

Which now brings me to the next one: the Eastern economy is "booming" due to low wages. They buy Western stuff (says Mary) but they obviously can't afford them. Hmm.. has this not happened before ? You know.. all over Europe and the United States for the past 20 years ?

Now we know where the next credit crunch will be: Eastern Europe.

The only countries with big economic downturns are Ukraine, Hungary and Poland. That's because these countries tried very hard to follow the Western script. Other East European countries won't have a credit crunch because people and companies couldn't afford to take a lot of loans in the first place.

[The Lawspeaker]

They obviously consume much less than people in Western Europe. But still a big part of the money ends up with Western companies.
No because they will be in depth. Mary.. did you actually get Economy as a high school subject ? I begin to doubt it. These people are in debt (look up the meaning of the word: so they need guess what ? That's right.. they need to borrow money. So yes.. the money they have loaned ends up with the company but then they are still in depth and they need to repay the bank AND on top of that comes the interest. So what happens when they lose their job (because with their meagre salaries they couldn't afford to safe a penny). Tell me what happens then ?

[The Lawspeaker]

The only countries with big economic downturns are Ukraine, Hungary and Poland. That's because these countries tried very hard to follow the Western script. Other East European countries won't have a credit crunch because people and companies couldn't afford to take a lot of loans in the first place.
I am talking personal loans, Mary. Try again. But then again: those other countries can't have an economic downturn because there is no economy for starters.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Further speculation. I contend that people who are unemployed would be able to drive taxis, so it, at least in theory, balances itself out.

It's not "speculation", it's basic economic theory.


And I never said it had to be domestic labor. I'm sure people would rather have Poles and Serbs (you know, European peasants) driving them than Pakistanis and Turks.

Those "peasants" of Europe have achieved more in last 100 years than your entire ethnicity in it's entire existence.

[The Lawspeaker]

Current healthcare costs in the Netherlands alone amount to close to 3000 euro's each year. For just a small family with dental care and most other things no longer included and the own-risk being € 350 in 2013. The regular rent in the Netherlands would be around 800 euro's per month (for a normal middle class home). To buy a home count on 230.000 euro's. Think about mortgage costs of close to 900 euro's per month. The average food shopping costs around 120 euro's for a small family. So how the FUCK, Mary, do you intent on keeping an economy alive when you while gut wages to a Eastern European level while keeping Western European prices ? Most families have to resort to being income since the wages are already low just to keep the roof on (without any frivolity).

Never mind the car. Right now expect to pay 100 euro's if you want to fill up your car. Combine it with the insurances and all that and you will get close to another 350 euro's.

[Mary]

You can claim all you want, Mary. I don't see many of them here. Maybe because they are piece of shit cars.

Renault doesn't have a lot of dealers in Western Europe yet that's probably the reason. Most people are not going to spend the extra €20.000-€30.000 to drive a BMW instead of a Dacia. Car enthusiasts will do it and people who have the money to spend. But regular people will choose the cheaper option.

[The Lawspeaker]

Renault doesn't have a lot of dealers in Western Europe yet that's probably the reason. Most people are not going to spend the extra €20.000-€30.000 to drive a BMW instead of a Dacia. Car enthusiasts will do it and people who have the money to spend. But regular people will choose the cheaper option.
Now snap back to reality. I don't see many Dacia's here. Your argument has thus been discredited.

[Mary]

That's even more outrageously stupid. It would crash the economy. Completely even. Everyone's wage would just be to cover the most basic expenses (and fail at that one).

That is the real cost/value of labor. Anything more than that is subsidized with various schemes that are all going to fail.

[The Lawspeaker]

That is the real cost/value of labor. Anything more than that is subsidized with various schemes that are all going to fail.
And still you don't seem to get it. Slash wages and you will get a dead economy.. even deader than dead. You get Russia in the 1990s.

[Mary]

No because they will be in depth. Mary.. did you actually get Economy as a high school subject ? I begin to doubt it. These people are in debt (look up the meaning of the word: so they need guess what ? That's right.. they need to borrow money. So yes.. the money they have loaned ends up with the company but then they are still in depth and they need to repay the bank AND on top of that comes the interest. So what happens when they lose their job (because with their meagre salaries they couldn't afford to safe a penny). Tell me what happens then ?

There is no debt in Eastern Europe. Look up the debt to GDP figures. Bulgaria is around 20%, Rumania is around 40%. The EU average in Western Europe is 90% (the real figure is probably around 150%).

[Mary]

There is no debt in Eastern Europe. Look up the debt to GDP figures. Bulgaria is around 20%, Rumania is around 40%. The EU average in Western Europe is 90% (the real figure is probably around 150%).


I am talking personal loans, Mary. Try again. But then again: those other countries can't have an economic downturn because there is no economy for starters.

There are no personal loans in Eastern Europe (except for Ukraine, Hungary, Poland) because people a) don't have collateral and b) have too low incomes to service the debt.

Then they can't buy expensive Western stuff. Your destroyed your own argument because they can't bloody afford to buy anything Western.

[Mary]

Current healthcare costs in the Netherlands alone amount to close to 3000 euro's each year. For just a small family with dental care and most other things no longer included and the own-risk being € 350 in 2013. The regular rent in the Netherlands would be around 800 euro's per month (for a normal middle class home). To buy a home count on 230.000 euro's. Think about mortgage costs of close to 900 euro's per month. The average food shopping costs around 120 euro's for a small family. So how the FUCK, Mary, do you intent on keeping an economy alive when you while gut wages to a Eastern European level while keeping Western European prices ? Most families have to resort to being income since the wages are already low just to keep the roof on (without any frivolity).

Never mind the car. Right now expect to pay 100 euro's if you want to fill up your car. Combine it with the insurances and all that and you will get close to another 350 euro's.

It's very simple,

* You live with your family and split the rent
* You only get emergency health care
* You don't own a car
* You only buy the basic necessities

If you are 3 people with €1000 each that means €1000 for the rent, €1000 for food and €1000 for other expenses. It seems reasonable to me.

[The Lawspeaker]

I must have mispressed a button. Err Mary.. I will delete that one and you can say it again.

[Mary]

And still you don't seem to get it. Slash wages and you will get a dead economy.. even deader than dead. You get Russia in the 1990s.

Your economy is already dead, you're just keeping it alive with credit, accounting fraud and by postponing expenses.

[The Lawspeaker]

It's very simple,

* You live with your family and split the rent
* You only get emergency health care
* You don't own a car
* You only buy the basic necessities

If you are 3 people with €1000 each that means €1000 for the rent, €1000 for food and €1000 for other expenses. It seems reasonable to me.


No one will have a 1000 then, Mary. Because you are with Eastern European wages. It doesn't exist, Mary. You know we haven't even talked about the social costs: there will be strikes up and down the country. Qualified people will start leaving in droves for other countries. And people need a car just to be on the road. Let me tell you: for a small family (man, woman, child) a car is a necessity here because people now work on the other side of the country and the train is even more expensive. But you didn't know that (of course).

[The Lawspeaker]

Your economy is already dead, you're just keeping it alive with credit, accounting fraud and by postponing expenses.
Meh you don't know how economy works. it shows.

[Mary]

No one will have a 1000 then, Mary. Because you are with Eastern European wages. It doesn't exist, Mary. You know we haven't even talked about the social costs: there will be strikes up and down the country. Qualified people will start leaving in droves for other countries.

Just look at Bulgaria,

* Low taxes
* Low employer contributions to social costs and pensions
* Low public spending
* etc.

I took €1000 as a benchmark because that is what a White collar worker is supposed to make in Southern Europe.

[The Lawspeaker]

Just look at Bulgaria,

* Low taxes
* Low employer contributions to social costs and pensions
* Low public spending
* etc.

I took €1000 as a benchmark because that is what a White collar worker is supposed to make in Southern Europe.
Supposed to. But they don't make it, Mary. And you didn't mention prices, taxes, social contributions or anything else. Just lowering wages all across the board. It's outrageously stupid and you can't just slash it. Suppose that we would have to lower wages etc. to become competitive. First count on SEVERE social unrest (think Britain in 1984 and potentially a revolution with huge support for extremist parties) and then we would have to leave the EU, prices and wages would be controlled and brought back in stages taking over 20 years. And Bulgaria is not even a functioning economy. Did you check Google Maps lately ? Did you see what it looks like ? LOL

[Methusalem]

Race mixing and forced assimilation is also another form of genocide. Look at France or England for example.

:loco::lol00002::lol00002: You smoke crack?

[Mary]

Meh you don't know how economy works. it shows.

Look at the figures,

This is government debt to GDP,


Netherlands recorded a Government Debt to GDP of 71.20 percent of the country's Gross Domestic Product in 2012. Government Debt To GDP in Netherlands is reported by the Eurostat.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/netherlands/government-debt-to-gdp

(The real figure is probably around 100%)

This is private debt to GDP,


Interestingly enough, Dutch levels of private debt to GDP are even higher, at 249%, the highest in Europe.

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/04/spain-is-the-new-greece.html

Let's add the promises of future social spending, this is about €2.500 billion or 500% of GDP.

http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/st319.pdf

To summarize,

* Your government is in debt
* Your citizens are deep in debt
* Your government has promised €2.500 billion in future social spending
* Your banks are probably broke which means no credit and a future bailout

[Mary]

Supposed to. But they don't make it, Mary. And you didn't mention prices, taxes, social contributions or anything else. Just lowering wages all across the board. It's outrageously stupid and you can't just slash it. Suppose that we would have to lower wages etc. to become competitive. First count on SEVERE social unrest (think Britain in 1984 and potentially a revolution with huge support for extremist parties) and then we would have to leave the EU, prices and wages would be controlled and brought back in stages taking over 20 years. And Bulgaria is not even a functioning economy. Did you check Google Maps lately ? Did you see what it looks like ? LOL


That's not how it's going to happen,

* Social spending will be cut
* Taxes will be raised, especially indirect taxes
* Public services will be privatized
* Work for welfare will be introduced
* Part time employment will be more common

The combined effect of these measures will be the same as a major wage cut.

[Amun]

----

[Virtuous]

:loco::lol00002::lol00002: You smoke crack?

Not really. (http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100611114352AAwX0QD)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB4pLnK_X4U

[Dacul]

Kosovo is not Muslim state.
At Albanians it seems that ancient code of laws is very important,they do not look like very muslim people,lol.

[Virtuous]

Kosovo is not Muslim state.

Because majority of Muslims in Kosovo don't follow Islamic dogma like the real Muslims do. However illegal immigrants from N.Africa and the Middle East are another story.

Why do you highlight what he said about Kosovo but not Turkey and Ataturk?

[Methusalem]

Not really. (http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100611114352AAwX0QD)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB4pLnK_X4U

That's still not a valid explanation for your claim that 'racemixing' is like a genocide.

[Virtuous]

That's still not a valid explanation for your claim that 'racemixing' is like a genocide.

I've had enough of you. The difference between you and me is that you are pro-mixing and multiculturalism and whatever evidence/truth I might post here (and believe me there is a ton) you will never agree with my Pan-European Nationalistic views.

Race mixing per se (if not by mass migration) is not genocide, legal individual migration won't make a difference in demographics. Mass migration is indeed a problem, these people are always arriving in hundreds here, many women pregnant with lots of children. I question myself, are these people really in danger? No, they come here as tradition and they are not arsed/good enough to build a country of their own from the plentiful resources they have.

[Methusalem]

I've had enough of you.

:cool:


The difference between you and me is that you are pro-mixing and multiculturalism and whatever evidence/truth I might post here (and believe me there is a ton) you will never agree with my Pan-European Nationalistic views.

Wrong buddy. If you could post rational, objective evidence which supports your viewpoint, I would actually believe it. Has nothing to do with my 'bias' against your worldview.


Mass migration is indeed a problem, these people are always arriving in hundreds here, many women pregnant with lots of children. I question myself, are these people really in danger?
No, they come here as tradition and they are not arsed/good enough to build a country of their own from the plentiful resources they have.

Please post evidence for this claim.

[Virtuous]

:cool:



Wrong buddy. If you could post rational, objective evidence which supports your viewpoint, I would actually believe it. Has nothing to do with my 'bias' against your worldview.



Please post evidence for this claim.

Oh I can see the evidence in my own Country, trust me, but here's the evidence if you insist.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvSOR_7oeC4&feature=share


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEv3R01scGo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB4pLnK_X4U


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjcUyEIYs98


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kU2_iBCf34


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne6W3ceMc_c


http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/muslim-imam-claims-women-who-dont-wear-hijabs-are-asking-to-be-raped-arrested-for-trying-to-rape-woman/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6k9P7L3tYk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piG9PfG9wVQ

[Virtuous]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97ygSm8I5Nw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q70T3eJZfnU

[Virtuous]

http://i.imgur.com/l1tNCZZ.jpg

[Virtuous]

Is it enough proof for you? Mongrel marxist scum (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?7290-ZnZn)?

[Methusalem]

Is it enough proof for you? Mongrel marxist scum (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?7290-ZnZn)?

Nope. Posting some cherry-picked, biased propaganda videos don't prove your point.

[alfieb]

lol. a communist talking about propaganda in a negative tone, that's entertaining.

[Methusalem]

http://i.imgur.com/l1tNCZZ.jpg

Argumentum ad auctoritatem.


Argument from authority (argumentum ad auctoritatem), also authoritative argument and appeal to authority, is an inductive reasoning argument that often takes the form of a statistical syllogism. Although certain classes of argument from authority can constitute strong inductive arguments, the appeal to authority is often applied fallaciously.

[Virtuous]

Nope. Posting some cherry-picked, biased propaganda videos don't prove your point.

How can one cherrypick undeniable evidence? How can one cherry pick truth?

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9299/france04.jpg

is this image photoshopped perhaps?

You're pathetic, you're scum, you ask for evidence and you are given a ton, but you never post anything in favour of your arguments, only argue semantics. Get out of my sight, scum.

[Methusalem]

lol. a communist talking about propaganda in a negative tone, that's entertaining.

Argumentum ad personam.

[Methusalem]

How can one cherrypick undeniable evidence? How can one cherry pick truth?

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9299/france04.jpg

is this image photoshopped perhaps?

YOU'RE PATHETIC, YOU'RE SCUM, YOU ASK FOR EVIDENCE AND YOU ARE GIVEN A TON, BUT YOU NEVER POST ANYTHING IN FAVOUR OF YOUR ARGUMENTS, ONLY ARGUE SEMANTICS. GET OUT OF MY SIGHT, SCUM.

I asked you to post evidence for the following claim. But you didn't.


No, they come here as tradition and they are not arsed/good enough to build a country of their own from the plentiful resources they have.

Its seems that you are very touchy when it comes to argue rational and objective about this topic. Please spare me your emotional rants which you use to cover up your lack of argumentative reasoning. You don't convince me with this.