Neolithic mitochondrial haplogroup H genomes and the genetic origins of Europeans....

[evon]

Haplogroup H dominates present-day Western European mitochondrial DNA variability (>40%), yet was less common (~19%) among Early Neolithic farmers (~5450 BC) and virtually absent in Mesolithic hunter-gatherers. Here we investigate this major component of the maternal population history of modern Europeans and sequence 39 complete haplogroup H mitochondrial genomes from ancient human remains. We then compare this ‘real-time’ genetic data with cultural changes taking place between the Early Neolithic (~5450 BC) and Bronze Age (~2200 BC) in Central Europe. Our results reveal that the current diversity and distribution of haplogroup H were largely established by the Mid Neolithic (~4000 BC), but with substantial genetic contributions from subsequent pan-European cultures such as the Bell Beakers expanding out of Iberia in the Late Neolithic (~2800 BC). Dated haplogroup H genomes allow us to reconstruct the recent evolutionary history of haplogroup H and reveal a mutation rate 45% higher than current estimates for human mitochondria.

http://i35.tinypic.com/2irq981.png
http://i34.tinypic.com/jzy9p3.png
http://i37.tinypic.com/al6we0.png
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v4/n4/full/ncomms2656.html

Good stuff!

[Dacul]

European mesolithic barbarians,were vikings like,it seems and went to steal the women of other populations.

[evon]

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/neolithic-mtdna-h-genomes-bell-beaker.html

This Brotherton et al. paper confirms latest archeological and anthropological findings that the Bell Beaker Culture expanded from the Iberian Peninsula. However, it seems the authors are somewhat befuddled by these results, and attempt to explain them in the following way:

Also:

This idea not only challenges traditional views of a linguistic spread of Celtic westwards from Central Europe during the Iron Age, but also implies that Indo-European languages arrived in Western Europe substantially earlier, presumably with the arrival of farming from the Near East41.

About R1b:

So there's no need to propose that the Bell Beaker Phenomenon was an Indo-European expansion from Iberia. It's more plausible that Bell Beaker groups spoke Vasconic languages related to modern Basque. Note that Basques carry high frequencies of mtDNA H and Y-DNA R1b, and the latter was recently found in Bell Beaker remains from Germany (see here).

[evon]

So basically it seems R1b came via the Mediterranean into Iberia and there moved North into Scandinavia with Vasconic languages during the Neolithic, and not from the east with the spread of Indo-european languages, same goes for many mtDNA H lineages.

I wonder if U5b carriers also spoke a Vasconic language, or if it came from the Neolithic immigrants?

[evon]

Hmm, wonder if i should learn Basque :P connect with my R1b roots...


OT posts moved to split thread (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?77380-split-thread-R1b-In-Africa).

[Prisoner Of Ice]

So basically it seems R1b came via the Mediterranean into Iberia and there moved North into Scandinavia with Vasconic languages during the Neolithic, and not from the east with the spread of Indo-european languages, same goes for many mtDNA H lineages.

I wonder if U5b carriers also spoke a Vasconic language, or if it came from the Neolithic immigrants?

That would be interesting if that were the case but I am not 100% on that.

[Artek]

That would be interesting if that were the case but I am not 100% on that.
I'm also not 100% on that.


There should be a study on pre-Bronze Age Basques. Most of their contemporary and medieval Y-DNA is R1b. This R1b seems to derive from P312 branch, which is considered Indo-European. If this branch was not Indo-European - paralell U106 was unlikely to be Indo-European as well. And the same goes to many other branches upstream of it (L11, L51, Z2103, L23) that are found all the way along the Danube and Southeastern Europe(also in West Asia) with newer SNP's upcoming in the westward direction. So who the hell could've indoeuropeanised them, Corded Ware cultures alone? Unlikely. Both Yamna at first and Corded Ware later? More likely but still with many lacks.

Let's assume the P312 branch was Indo European. Still, there is also a possibility, that original pre-Bronze Age Basques could've been mostly (I2,E,G, etc.), like Sardinians and even though most of them were killed off or in any other way largely prevented from breeding - women became the reservoir of Basque culture and language.

Without hard proofs, we're not able to exclude any of these options.

EDIT: Paleolithic Iberia was also quite H, this mtDNA was also found in epipaleolithic Karelia. Still no sign of H in paleolithic Germany.

[gold_fenix]

I think something fails, we need to find the common point of origin of R1a and R1b in Europe, this is the key

[Artek]

I think something fails, we need to find the common point of origin of R1a and R1b in Europe, this is the key
They both seem to come from Eastern or Southeastern direction anyway.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I don't think the r1b really all came from east either, at least not right before time of christ. The migrations and pop levels would have been way lower for most of prehistory. I think the germanic migrations were mainly periodic and back and forth before the bronze age collapse and higher population levels changed everything.

Seems like this ought to come out soon enough, there's plenty of bones in north africa and caucaus even if there's not a lot of iberian DNA to test.

[Fire Haired]

U guys should click on Y DNa spread by Indo Europeans (R1a1a1 M417, R1b1a2a1 L51, R1b1a2a L23?, R1b1a M73?, Etc.?) (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?91971-Y-DNA-spread-by-Indo-Europeans-(R1a1a1-M417-R1b1a2a1-L51)-(R1b1a2a-L23-R1b1a1-M73-Etc-))

Also Strong evidnec mtDNA H in Europe did not spread in Neloithic (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?84970-Strong-Evidence-mtDNA-H-in-Europe-did-not-Spread-in-the-Neolithic-age)

No one should make any big theory's from the few mtDNA samples we have, mtDNA in Europe and the mid east is so similar we cant make theory's about specific little tribes migrations from the amount of mtDNA we have. Also Neolithic mtDNA in Germany before Bell Beaker when taking out lBK is also at the modern European average for mtDNA H. those materinal lineages in Bell Beaker defintley don't go back to Iberia it had been hundreds of years. People trust to much on mtDNA it gets annoying. mtDNA H1 and H3 the main subclade in Europe orignated in Europe anyways come from a huge migration out of southwestern Refuge click here (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eupedia.com%2Fforum%2Farchive %2Findex.php%2Ft-28829.html&ei=SF06UtftHcKEygGbnID4Ag&usg=AFQjCNHj0NrYYc7EmYYsyuaj3cOYbhr5UA&sig2=f0SU7_4n9MSvwlC3C65Fdg&bvm=bv.52288139,d.aWc)

No matter how u but it Europeans mainly decend from pre Neolithic ones which seems to be a huge argument right now. The reason is aust dna (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.isogg.org%2Fwiki%2FAutosomal_ DNA&ei=h106Uq6UOsnayAHbooDQCA&usg=AFQjCNG8NuxkUWi-3fPmcn4czYal0U-tAA&sig2=dH-4kJX61dr7bcHJuuyHZQ&bvm=bv.52288139,d.aWc) which gives a much better idea of ancestry it is full ancestry not direct lines like mtDNa and Y DNA. Europe has its own group called north euro which is dominate in 7,000ybp sample in north spain it was a hunter gather with U5b2c1 which so many claimed were wiped out and not ancestors of modern Europeans because of the few mtdna samples we have well they were proven wrong. Also European Palness(Origin of European Palness (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?92883-Origin-of-European-Paleness(skin-hair-and-eye-color))) compared to other Caucasians totally goes against a recent Neolithic origin form brown skinned mid easterns. Even people in far north Scandinavia like Sami and FInnish(closest relatives to Mesolithic hunter gather samples (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?90760-Sardine-Neloithic-Euro-s-Finnish-and-Sami-Mesolithic-Paleolithic-Euro-s)) the Neolithic age never really spread that far north. But their actulley the palest of all Europeans obliviously dominate paleness in Europe is very pre Neolithic over 10,000ybp its from the hunter gathers and so is most of Europeans ancestry.

[Fire Haired]

sorry repeat of post