Racial origin of Dingling is confusing, ( ancestors of Kypchak Mongoloid or Caucasoid? )

[ButlerKing]

Something here I don't understand. Dingling were ancestors of Kypchaks but their origins sounds very confusing to me.


Caucasian origin
---------------------------

" Many researchers also believe that Kipchaks were blond and blue-eyed, descended from the Dingling, who lived in the steppes of Southern Siberia in the end of the 1st millennium BC, and who were, according to the Chinese chroniclers, blonds. "

Mongoloid origin
-----------------------------


" The Dingling were a warlike group of hunters, fishers, and gatherers of the southern Siberian mountain taiga region from Lake Baikal to northern Mongolia. Chinese records do not mention the physical appearance of the Dingling, suggesting general homogeneity with people of the Asiatic region, and their name appears rarely.[4][5][6] "




Kypchaks.



" Anthropologist SA Pletnev studied a group of burials of Kipchaks in Volga region and found them to be hybrid race of Caucasoid with some admixture of Mongoloid, with physical characteristics such as flat face and distinctly protruding nose "

Could this had been what they mean't? blond, homogeneity with Asiatic, Southern siberian?

http://kazym.ethnic-tour.ru/kazym/images/d.jpg
http://russianow.washingtonpost.com/images/nomads.jpg
http://www.desktopwallpaper2.com/desktop-wallpaper-home/Nenets-hd-picture-widescreen-wallpaper-1280x960-1-50ceefd51ff35-4527.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Can someone explain what they mean't by blonde and homogeneity with Asiatic people?

http://img.index.hu/cikkepek/kultur/galeria/me18.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/skannaaminen0004.jpg
http://www.shell.com/global/future-energy/people-planet/partnering-protect-nature/_jcr_content/par/accordion_1/accordionsection_2/textwithimage_3/image.780200690.jpeg

[Mortimer]

interesting People blonde but asiatic, very unique look thanks for sharing ButlerKing

[ButlerKing]

interesting People blonde but asiatic, very unique look thanks for sharing ButlerKing

There is even some with red hair.
These Dingling people have me very confused.


http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/hjo3uq78094.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/hDKA4iJzM7M.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/x_9717c9b7.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/x_19bef751.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/x_6e45a22e.jpg

[ButlerKing]

It doesn't make any sense. Surely if they were blonde that would mean they look distinguishable yet Chinese don't even bother mention what they look like any other mongoloid groups other than they were blond. Like for example, when mention Yuezhi people they mention they always they had blond hair and look very different or " Alien ".


Among many of these Siberians with light hair many of them have dark hair and dark eyes

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/x_64760840.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/x_86d650f4.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Finally

I found the connection. I can only find it IN Chinese sources.

TRANSLATION

涅涅茨人和丁零人的关系
The Nenets and Dinglinger the relationship

民族关系
涅涅茨人，旧称萨莫迪人、尤拉克人。或许有一小部分涅涅茨人曾加入北方民族之一的“丁零”人。中国汉代时丁 零人游牧于萨彦岭地区。因战乱一批丁零人沿叶尼塞河向北迁移，到达北冰洋沿岸，其中一部分越过了乌拉尔山。 他们吸收一部分当地居民的语言和文化成分，逐渐形成新的民族—萨莫迪人。

Ethnic Relations
Nenets people , formerly Sa Modi people, You Lake. There may be a small part of the Nenets people had joined the northern one of the nation Dinglinger people. The Dingling Chinese Han Dynasty nomadic Sayan region. Dinglinger war group moved northward along the Yenisei River to reach the coast of the Arctic Ocean, part of which crossed the Ural Mountains. They absorb part of the language and culture of the local residents ingredients, gradually formed a new nation - Sa Modi.

[Proto-Shaman]

It doesn't make any sense. Surely if they were blonde that would mean they look distinguishable yet Chinese don't even bother mention what they look like any other mongoloid groups other than they were blond. Like for example, when mention Yuezhi people they mention they always they had blond hair and look very different or " Alien ".
Chinese chronicles also described those people as hairy blond monkeys. Only pred. Caucasoids can share these characteristics. Furthermore Dinlins were of medium growth, often tall, well-build, had elongated faces, white color of skin with blush on the cheeks, blond hair, protruding nose, often aquiline and light eyes. (L. N. Gumilev)

[ButlerKing]

Chinese chronicles also described those people as hairy blond monkeys. Only pred. Caucasoids can share these characteristics. Furthermore Dinlins were of medium growth, often tall, well-build, had elongated faces, white color of skin with blush on the cheeks, blond hair, protruding nose, often aquiline and light eyes. (L. N. Gumilev)

Where does your source come from? is all very confusing to be honest.

http://bks9.books.google.co.uk/books?id=iTsbAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&imgtk=AFLRE72ydHFiHifhAkqWDyc9I_RWwdrCEPvbtiX-ow0IHp7nQIjtddiD7B3P7qi2ZgUm-GMXk8EfwUMIhK3goAIxcpoBXXQnFkVtLOA9GTkioNaEPZbmEsE
The early empires of Central Asia: a study of the Scythians and ... - Page 472

We know little regarding their racial affinities, but it is probable that the bulk of them were Mongoloids, or what Eickstedt, op. cit., p. 192, calls more specifically the Tun- gusid branch of the Mongoloid group. Though the Dingling, who lived to the

Chinese believe these Dingling are related with the Nenets, Yeniseian, Uralic, Samoyedic people.

Yeniseian theory was also proposed





In Zur jenissejisch-indianischen Urverwandtschaft (Concerning Yeniseian-Indian Primal Relationship), the German scholar, Heinrich Werner developed a new language family which he termed Baikal–Siberic. By extension, he groups together the Yeniseian peoples (Arin, Assan, Yugh, Ket, Kott, and Pumpokol), the Na-Dene Indians, and the Dingling of Chinese chronicles to Proto-Dingling. The linguistic comparison of Na-Dene and Yeniseian shows that the quantity and character of the correspondences points to a possible common origin. According to Russian linguistic experts, they likely spoke a polysynthetic or synthetic language with an active form of morphosyntactic alignment, exhibiting a linguistically and culturally unified community.[citation needed]
The name Dingling can be seen to resemble both:
the Yeniseian word *dzheng people > Ket de?ng, Yug dyeng, Kott cheang
the Na-Dene word *ling or *hling people, i.e. as manifested in the name of the Tlingit (properly hling-git son of man, child of the people).
Although the Dené–Yeniseian language family is now widely accepted, the same cannot be said about his inclusion of the Dingling.

For them these are descendants of Dingling. The Dingling were a tribes of many Siberians which included Yeniseian, Western Uralic and Eastern Uralic.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gdroq_aO8Zw/SqqoJy-5U5I/AAAAAAAACM4/Tlc9j1Br9oA/s400/45370.jpg
http://www.wormfans.com/static/content_file/i0/00/00/06/65/25.jpg
http://www.gazprom.com/f/posts/95/299107/yrm-energy-of-nature-43.jpg
http://www.hs.fi/kuvat/iso_webkuva/1076153676877.jpeg
http://img9.ph.126.net/bd4UUvMdla8uz7sjGvF5UA==/95138542145532579.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/Uralids/DSCN1794_zps9aa8e789.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/x_0131d979.jpg
http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/nenets-students-must-learn-russian-maria-stenzel.jpg
http://foto.ravna.no/500/021809.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/ibc1h1.png
http://cdn1.vtourist.com/15/1420479-Nenets_grandma_with_3_girls_Nelmin_Nos.jpg

[Proto-Shaman]

Where does your source come from? is all very confusing to be honest.

http://bks9.books.google.co.uk/books?id=iTsbAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&imgtk=AFLRE72ydHFiHifhAkqWDyc9I_RWwdrCEPvbtiX-ow0IHp7nQIjtddiD7B3P7qi2ZgUm-GMXk8EfwUMIhK3goAIxcpoBXXQnFkVtLOA9GTkioNaEPZbmEsE
The early empires of Central Asia: a study of the Scythians and ... - Page 472

We know little regarding their racial affinities, but it is probable that the bulk of them were Mongoloids, or what Eickstedt, op. cit., p. 192, calls more specifically the Tun- gusid branch of the Mongoloid group. Though the Dingling, who lived to the

Chinese believe these Dingling are related with the Nenets, Yeniseian, Uralic, Samoyedic people.

Yeniseian theory was also proposed


For them these are descendants of Dingling. The Dingling were a tribes of many Siberians which included Yeniseian, Western Uralic and Eastern Uralic.

This is all right. The Dinglings originated from the Karasuk culture which was Yeniseian and Turkic Kipchak (see Wikipedia: Karasuk culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karasuk_culture)).


In 1959, in the tidings of the All-Union Geographical Society of the USSR (№ 1) L N Gumilev published an article, where based on the data of paleoanthropology and history, conducted an audit of Grum - Grzhimailian hypothesis. Let us quote an excerpt from it: "Debez believes that dolichocephalic South Siberian type, i.e. dinlins, is ancestor of Europeans, "close to the Cro-Magnon", and its similarity with the "northern type" explains by convergence. Indeed, this type goes back to antiquity, predating the formation time of the Aryan linguistic unity (the middle of the III millennium). However, he notes europoid brachicranial type, mixed with Mongoloid narrow-faced type, and this mixture gets to Siberia from China approximately in the XVII century. BC ("Karasuktsy"). At this time, the Chinese history ascertains the eviction from China to the north of supporters of the overthrown of the Xia Dynasty. In 1764 BC, Tsarevich Shun Wei and his companions settled with the nomads and took their lifestyle. The legend is confirmed by archeology, but they both support the hypothesis of Grumm - Grzhimailo. Obviously, brachicranial Europeoid type was brought from China by di. Another variety of di - Usuns - also short head "[13].
The basic conclusions of LN Gumilev were:
1. The ancient white race in Central Asia really existed. South Siberian dolichocephalic (dinlins) and Northern China brachycephalic (di) treated each other as the race of the second order of the European racial barrel.
2. Dinlins, being a branch that rejected yet in the Paleolithic, did not have the direct connection with the Europeans,
3. Steppe dinlins became part of Huns, giving them several Europeoid features (high noses, fluffy beard), and steppe descendants of di were usuns and tele. [13]
But we, based on new data of DNA genealogy, wanted to offer our interpretation of events.
We believe that an anthropological similarity of Europeans and Asian dinlins was the result not of convergence, and that the European carriers of haplogroup R1b were akin to the dinlins. Recall that one of the major haplogroups of Western European (and some Asian) populations is R1b. According to the AA Klesov, ancestor of European R1b come to Europe 4000-4500 years ago, and haplogroup itself appeared in the Asia 16,000 years ago. [14]
As a working hypothesis, we can assume that dinlins were carriers of R1b haplogroup, while the northern Chinese di tribes were owners of haplogroup R1a. As is known, di tribes and zhuns coexisted with the Chinese people. There is a very informed opinion that the Chinese chariots, together with animal style in art and some bronze instruments, were borrowed from north-western "barbarians" by Chinese. [15] L N Gumilev, characterizing the ancient population of Siberia and Mongolia, said:
"Dinlins inhabited the the Sayano-Altai mountains, Minusinsk depression and Tuva. Their type is characterized by the following features: the medium growth , often tall, well- build, elongated face, white color of skin with blush on the cheeks, blond hair, protruding nose, often aquiline and light eyes." These conclusions, that built on the basis of written sources, were confirmed in archeology. Sayano-Altai was homeland to Afanasevian culture 3, dating from about 2000 BC. Anthropologically afanasevian tribes were special race. They had "sharply protruding nose, relatively low face, low orbits, and wide forehead - all these signs say that they belong to the European trunk. From modern Europeans, afanasevian tribes differ by much more broad face 4. In this respect they are similar to the Upper Paleolithic skulls from Western Europe, i.e. with the Cro-Magnon type in the broad sense of the term. "
The inheritors of afanasevian tribes were tribes of Tagar culture lived till the III century BC. This suggests that afanasev-dinlins carried their culture through the ages, despite the invasion of foreigners.
Around 1200 year, in the Minusinsk steppes Andronov culture was replaced by new Karasuk culture that was brought by settlers from the south, from North China, from the banks of the Yellow River. For the first time Chinese style enters to Western Siberia. This is not just borrowing. Together with the new culture in burial grounds appears a new racial type - a mix of Mongoloids with Europeoids, at that Europeoids brahikrans and thin-faced Mongoloids belong to the "Far Eastern race of Asian barrel."
Such race formed in North China, in the era of Yangshao. Outwardly, its representatives resembled modern Uzbeks, who are also the product of mixing of Europoid and Mongoloid components. On the spot, they mixed in turn, but for us it is important to note that "to the South Siberia moved already mixed people. To the thin-faced southern Mongoloid was mixed Europeoid brachicranial type, whose origin is unclear, as well as its place in the systematics "....
Dinlins disappeared from the historical arena in the middle of the II century BC ... Thus dinlins were the people with whom mixed ancestors of the Huns that came from the south "[16].

Aryan footprint among Turkic nations
Zh.Sabitov: CA-NEWS (KG)
http://forum.atababa.kz/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=3227

[Böri]

The Yeniseian hypothesis isn't taken serious by most scholars, just another fiction. Chinese sources don't dispute their Turkicnes.

They were proto-Turkic people plain and simple.
Obviously both Kypchaks and Yenisei (location, river name) Kyrgyz descended from them.

Old Chinese sources also reveal that Xiongnu spoke similar language to Dinglings, which also indicates that Xiongnu were clearly Turkic-dominated.

The Huns, Rome and the Birth of Europe
By Hyun Jin Kim
p.177
https://i.hizliresim.com/V3Eqdv.jpg

[Böri]

They were reported living originally along Lena river in Baykal lake region. Very old Turkic settlement.

https://i.hizliresim.com/V3E4AR.jpg

[Nanushka]

There is even some with red hair.
These Dingling people have me very confused.

No wonder, ancient Turkish typology is well-known by almost all scholars and Dinglings, the ancestors of asian Huns (Sofi Tram-Semen; Huns, Our Ancestors, 2007), were also depicted as big, red-haired or blonde people. Obviously they were proto-Turks

[ButlerKing]

The Yeniseian hypothesis isn't taken serious by most scholars, just another fiction. Chinese sources don't dispute their Turkicnes.

They were proto-Turkic people plain and simple.
Obviously both Kypchaks and Yenisei (location, river name) Kyrgyz descended from them.

Old Chinese sources also reveal that Xiongnu spoke similar language to Dinglings, which also indicates that Xiongnu were clearly Turkic-dominated.

The Huns, Rome and the Birth of Europe
By Hyun Jin Kim
p.177
https://i.hizliresim.com/V3Eqdv.jpg


I just used google translate on Chinese dingling and they seem to mention Dingling are related to Uralic people instead of Turkic. Their origins are still under debate and for your info. Although they also mentioned a possible Turkic or partial Turkic origin they historically mentioned Uralic groups as Dinglings instead

Russian and Chinese anthropologist on Xiongnu

" Those included the Ordos culture, many of them had been identified as the Xiongnu cultures. The region was occupied predominantly by peoples showing Mongoloid features, known from their skeletal remains and artifacts. Portraits found in the Noin-Ula excavations demonstrate other cultural evidences and influences, showing that Chinese and Xiongnu art have influenced each other mutually. Some of these embroidered portraits in the Noin-Ula kurgans also depict the Xiongnu with long braided hair with wide ribbons, which is seen to be identical with the Ashina clan hair-style.[108] Well-preserved bodies in Xiongnu and pre-Xiongnu tombs in the Mongolian Republic and southern Siberia show both Mongoloid and Caucasian features.[109] Analysis of skeletal remains from sites attributed to the Xiongnu provides an identification of dolichocephalic Mongoloid "




A majority (89%) of the Xiongnu mtDNA sequences can be classified as belonging to Asian haplogroups, and nearly 11% belong to European haplogroups.[citation needed] This finding indicates that contact between European and Asian populations preceded the start of Xiongnu culture, and confirms results reported for two samples from an early 3rd century BC Scytho-Siberian population (Clisson et al. 2002).

[Böri]

Xiongnu were a confederation of many nations. It was an empire.
Modu Chanyu mastered 26 nations, from Indo-European Yuezhi until Mongoloid Tungus.

Historians who hold anti-Turkic view explain the transition from old Huns (Xiongnu) to Turkic European Huns (Attila) by saying Xiongnu moved West and assimilated Turkic Dinglings and took their language, assuming Xiongnu was originally Yeniseian-speaking.

That doesn't make sense, the assimilator wouldn't take the language of the assimilated subject.

Xiongnu had people from different races but they were led (Modu Chanyu included) by a Turkic elite stratum.

[ButlerKing]

No wonder, ancient Turkish typology is well-known by almost all scholars and Dinglings, the ancestors of asian Huns (Sofi Tram-Semen; Huns, Our Ancestors, 2007), were also depicted as big, red-haired or blonde people. Obviously they were proto-Turks

The question is what race they belong. For example the Chinese mentioned that Dinglings didn't look physically different from the Chinese and other Asiatic populations but also said they had blonde hair ( I can't one single source that even they were red hair) and they also claimed people such as Nenets as Dinglings and other Uralic tribes, and also compared them Tungustic people.


The question is what race they belong ? Only the Chinese have seen them so their sources are most reliable since they were only to mention them. I believe is they were something like Nenets and other Uralic racial types just like Chinese had claimed they were.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YHpFTcbeOTc/U28drqNXnCI/AAAAAAAAExQ/ZnULX3pZovM/s1600/nenet.jpg
http://www.arcticimages.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/nenetsia39.jpg
https://68.media.tumblr.com/7a5303644a8dfe343619f1b528e845dd/tumblr_og054jRLy11qjdjmoo7_r1_1280.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d6/be/b9/d6beb99867b4560818e94f2526f9d397--ainu-people-native-americans.jpg
http://alphapipe.imagefarm.s3.amazonaws.com/fwp0000263-Seretetto%20Tribe.jpg.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Xiongnu were a confederation of many nations. It was an empire.
Modu Chanyu mastered 26 nations, from Indo-European Yuezhi until Mongoloid Tungus.

Historians who hold anti-Turkic view explain the transition from old Huns (Xiongnu) to Turkic European Huns (Attila) by saying Xiongnu moved West and assimilated Turkic Dinglings and took their language, assuming Xiongnu was originally Yeniseian-speaking.

That doesn't make sense, the assimilator wouldn't take the language of the assimilated subject.

Xiongnu had people from different races but they were led (Modu Chanyu included) by a Turkic elite stratum.


We don't even if the Xiongnu were Turkic. The thing is they proposed Yenesian, Iranic, Turkic, Mongolic. I don't know what language group they belong to but I trust anthropology data and genetics, it shows they were predominately Mongoloid with some admixture of Caucasoid. They were obviously not a racially Indo-European group.

[Böri]

The question is what race they belong. For example the Chinese mentioned that Dinglings didn't look physically different from the Chinese and other Asiatic populations but also said they had blonde hair ( I can't one single source that even they were red hair) and they also claimed people such as Nenets as Dinglings and other Uralic tribes, and also compared them Tungustic people.


Your OP wiki quote says Chinese didn't say anything particular about their look, and then (subjective) concludes that they should be Mongoloid.

Well İ guess that they were rather Europoid or Europoid-leaning Europo-Mongoloid.
And I am not the only to think that way obviously.

Siberia: A Cultural History
By Anthony Haywood
https://i.hizliresim.com/9DgRRr.jpg



We don't even if the Xiongnu were Turkic. The thing is they proposed Yenesian, Iranic, Turkic, Mongolic. I don't know what language group they belong to but I trust anthropology data and genetics, it shows they were predominately Mongoloid with some admixture of Caucasoid. They were obviously not a racially Indo-European group.

Tested samples could belong to anyone any citizen in the Xiongnu empire. Some subjects or some soldiers or so. That doesn't mean much for the ruling people. Especially not at crossroads of different races, like that area was.

[ButlerKing]

Your OP wiki quote says Chinese didn't say anything particular about their look, and then (subjective) concludes that they should be Mongoloid.

Well İ guess that they were rather Europoid or Europoid-leaning Europo-Mongoloid.
And I am not the only to think that way obviously.

Siberia: A Cultural History
By Anthony Haywood
https://i.hizliresim.com/9DgRRr.jpg

All the more reason to suspect they were Mongoloid. Because the Chinese had mentioned what the Kushan, Yuezhi, Scythians and other central Asian tribes. The Chinese described them as White and blonde but in the Dingling case, they didn't mentioned their facial traits of Dingling like the Chinese had done generally with their neighbouring East Asian people but only in this case mentioned they had blonde hair but other than nothing more.

What are Chinese suppose to they when they saw a race of people who had blonde/red hair but look similar to themselves ?

Is very common for Siberian Uralic Mongoloid mix breed to have blonde hair/red hair with blue/green eyes.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9886cI6Kv1roxnsyo1_500.jpg
http://static.wixstatic.com/media/88a2da_5c55e053d84bc69e8cad9a7647418ecd.jpg_srz_40 0_270_85_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/e1/e4/a1/e1e4a1ee9313aa84a2967aac28da1d59--geography-cultural.jpg
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/12/5/1354713624973/Portraits-of-Nenets-in-th-012.jpg?w=700&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&
http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/24fe88db4ddb4abda082c524fc99dd63/nenets-reindeer-breeders-b9prhy.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Your OP wiki quote says Chinese didn't say anything particular about their look, and then (subjective) concludes that they should be Mongoloid.

Well İ guess that they were rather Europoid or Europoid-leaning Europo-Mongoloid.
And I am not the only to think that way obviously.

Siberia: A Cultural History
By Anthony Haywood
https://i.hizliresim.com/9DgRRr.jpg




Tested samples could belong to anyone any citizen in the Xiongnu empire. Some subjects or some soldiers or so. That doesn't mean much for the ruling people. Especially not at crossroads of different races, like that area was.


BOOK SOURCES, ARE NOT ENITIRELY REALIBLE. In many things from books are rubbish nonsense written by the authors. You can even find freaking afro-centrist books and Korean nationalist books claiming the world civilizations were created by them. Books are generally considered reliable and authentic but in many of them are just superficial theories and claim, I mean we have freaking dumb idiots of books that claim Buddha was a Negroid or Mongoloid but this is stupid ass crap.

We don't have any racial anthropology of Dingling. We have only for Kypchaks who are mixture of properly many different tribes and only partially descent from Dingling since these people originated in Kazakstan unlike Dingling which originated from Southern Siberia.

[Böri]

All the more reason to suspect they were Mongoloid. Because the Chinese had mentioned what the Kushan, Yuezhi, Scythians and other central Asian tribes. The Chinese described them as White and blonde but in the Dingling case, they didn't mentioned their facial traits like Chinese had done generally with his neighbouring East Asia but only in this case mentioned they had blonde hair.

What are Chinese suppose to they when they saw a race of people who had blonde/red hair but look similar to themselves ?


Scythians isn't ethnicity, it's reference to various peoples sharing a similar lifestyle.

Overwhelmingly or Full Mongoloid people can be rarely light in feature.
Dingling and their followers Yenisei Kyrgyz (supposed to be a bit more East Asian mixed since they lived centuries after them).

Chinese year books described the Yenisei Kyrgyz and their society in details tho.

History of Civilizations of Central Asia (vol.4,part-1)

https://i.hizliresim.com/7y8W7v.jpg
https://i.hizliresim.com/a1B8XO.jpg

*'Türk, here means the Göktürks (Turkic Kaghanate).

[ButlerKing]

Scythians isn't ethnicity, it's reference to various peoples sharing a similar lifestyle.

Overwhelmingly or Full Mongoloid people can be rarely light in feature.
Dingling and their followers Yenisei Kyrgyz (supposed to be a bit more East Asian mixed since they lived centuries after them).

Chinese year books described the Yenisei Kyrgyz and their society in details tho.

History of Civilizations of Central Asia (vol.4,part-1)

https://i.hizliresim.com/7y8W7v.jpg
https://i.hizliresim.com/a1B8XO.jpg

*'Türk, here means the Göktürks (Turkic Kaghanate).


With exception of Uralic Mongoloid-North Mongoloid mix breed and the Hmong people who are pure Mongoloid but were historically described as blonde hair/blue eyes since ancient times.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzEnsynTBhM

Okay, I just used google translate. Since I can't any other single crap about Dingling in English, I tried google translate in Hungarian, Russian and Chinese but the Russian knowledge on them and only the Chinese know them.

( Note Ding Zero is translated as Dingling in the translator google. )

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fbaike.baidu.com%2Fitem%2F%E4%B8%81 %E9%9B%B6%E4%BA%BA


Is a messy translation but I only wanted to know the part bolded in black, which is the most important.


" Ding zero, ancient Chinese national name in northern China. Also for Ding Ling, Ding Ling, nail Ling. Also known as high car, Di calendar, Tie Le, Ding zero (Ding Ling). Three parts of the country, part of the Ding is still in the south of Lake Baikal nomadic, said North Ding zero; part of the migration so far Xinjiang Altai and Tacheng area, south and Wusun, car division, southwest and Kangju neighborhood, said West. [1]

Ding zero belongs to the original nomadic tribe, Chileer people first lived near Lake Baikal. To stay in the original Baikal Lake area of ​​Chile is known as Ding zero. Xianbei people because of the north of the Chileans who use the wheels of tall cars, called the high car. After the Eastern Han Dynasty attack on the Northern Huns, Chile's territory began to move south, with the Central Plains of the Han exchanges. [1-2]

Chinese name Ding Ling (Ding Ling, Ding Ling, nail Ling, etc.) Activities Baikal Lake, Xinjiang Central Asia, the main descendants and Nenets

in the era of Qin and Han Dynasties to the Northern and Southern Dynasties
table of Contents
1 history
2 territory
3 culture
4 descendants
▪ National integration
▪ with the Nenets


One of the tribes of the Baltic theme museum Chileer earliest people living near Lake Baikal. In the time of the first single in the Huns. South moved into the Central Plains Chile is known as Ding zero. Xianbei people because of the north of the Chileans who use the wheels of tall cars, called the high car. After the Han Dynasty defeated the Northern Huns, Chile's territory began to move south, with the Central Plains of the Han Chinese exchanges. [3-4]

Qin and Han Dynasties, nomadic in the North Sea (Baikal Lake area). About 200 BC, was conquered by the Huns. Ding and other ethnic groups because of unbearable Huns of the captive and brutal oppression, have joined together to deal with the Huns. [5-6]

Han Xuan emperor of the beginning of two years (72 BC) winter, Ding zero, Wu Huan, Wusun to the Huns attack, heavy blow to the Huns. God of the first year (before 61) before and after, Ding several times attack the Huns. After the middle of the 1st century AD, the Huns split into two parts, the forces are declining. The Eastern Han Dynasty Emperor and two years (AD 85), Ding zero and Xianbei, the Western Regions, together with the Southern Huns, defeated the Northern Huns, forcing the Northern Huns moved westward. [1] [6]

Three parts of the country, part of the Ding is still in the south of Lake Baikal nomadic, said North Ding zero; part of the migration so far Xinjiang Altai and Tacheng area, south and Wusun, car division, southwest and Kangju neighborhood, said West. Siddhwin soldiers 60,000, with the grass nomadic. There is a part of the Eastern Han Dynasty when the martial arts to the present Hexi Corridor, Ningxia area nomadic. During the Northern and Southern Dynasties, Ding part of a small part of the south, gradually with the local national integration. [5-7]

The middle of the fourth century, living in the area along the Yinshan have been humble. The famous "Qi Le song", is the Northern Qi Dynasty when the people of the freshman language of the pastoral song, after being translated into Chinese. Chileer people in the Northern Wei Dynasty to participate in a large number of Xianbei people, the Han Chinese war, most of them and Ding people together gradually into the Han nationality. [3-4]

At the end of the fourth century to the middle of the 6th century, following the Huns and Xianbei, the Chileans and Rourans were active in the north and north of the Chinese desert. In the Central Plains Ding people have established Zhai Wei regime. Chile in the north of a later became the Uighur, modern Uighur ancestors. The Yakut people in the Republic of Sakha (Yakut) of the Russian Federation are also descendants of the Chileans. [3-4]

At the end of the 4th century and the beginning of the 5th century, the Northern Wei Dynasty launched nine wars against them and seized six hundred and seventy thousand people. There are a lot of Chileer tribe in the desert service belongs to Rouran [8]

At the end of the 5th century AD, Ran Ran was weakening in the Northern Wei Dynasty. He was in the front of the division (now Xinjiang Turpan Cross River Gucheng area) to establish a high car country (AD 487 - 541 years), a total of seven main, about fifty-five years ago. High car country south to control the gateway to the Western Regions Gaochang and Yanqi, Shanshan, the power of the northeast to the color Lengge River, Erhun River, Tula River area, north of Altai Mountain, west of Wusun Northwest Yue like , East and north Wei adjacent. And finally destroyed.

Ding zero is a large nomadic nation in ancient China, also known as Ding zero, Ding Ling, nail Ling, correct pronunciation should be connected, so also known as Di Li, Chile Le, Tie Le and so on. The Han Dynasty is mainly in the vast area south of Lake Baikal. Before and after the first century AD, the Han Dynasty and other Ding Ding defeated the Huns, forcing its westward move. Wei Jin Southern and Northern Dynasties, a large number of Ding zero south, part of the diaspora in the north and south of the mountain. Later, hegemony of the time Xue Yantuo, Uighur, Turkic and Mongolian in the ancient Wang, Kelie and other ministries are Ding ethnic descendants. [9-10]
Cultural editor
Ding zero good at making and generally use high-speed car, so after the Central Plains, also known as Ding zero "high car." Ding people so the general use of high car, because the original grassland in the grass and high, deep snow, and more swamp. In this area using high-speed car, you can reduce the resistance, smooth passage. [9-10]
In the Hulun Buir League Balu Sanqi also retains the habit of using high-speed carts, the locals call it Lele car or a large wheel. The wheel diameter of up to 1.4 meters or so, more than the height of the local cattle body, and the horse's height is almost the same. The wheel of raw materials for the birch, baked wood after baking, so that bending, a few sections of the tree trunk connected together into a wheel, so some wheels are not round, the car is not straight. The car is mostly between 15 and 20. Each family of herdsmen has at least four Lele cars for water, moving and transporting fuel. Sometimes also put the wheel connection as a fence, in general, with cattle car, a cow a car, the car end to end, by a person can pack. [9-10]
Of course, Ding zero people use the high-speed carts, much lighter than the current Le Le car, the quality is also poor. However, as far as 165,600 years ago, Ding people can create such a high-speed car, is indeed a very simple thing. [9-10]
Descendants

Ethnic Fusion
Under the rule of the Northern Wei Dynasty, the mainland continued to resist, placed in the town as the camp of the Ministry of Chile is the main force of the six town uprising. Rouxuan town leader Duoluo Zhou (or Tujin Luo Zhou) may be Chileer people. Six town after the uprising, Chileer people fought in the Central Plains, and the Central Plains around the integration of Dingzhong in the Han. Chilele family love song and dance, the Song Dynasty Guo Maoqian "Yuefu poems" in the preservation of the "Chile Le song" is Chile's family of a famous folk song. [8]

With the Nenets formerly known as the Samodians, the Juraks.

The source of the Nenets can be traced back to one of the ancient Chinese northern national "Ding zero" people. In the Han Dynasty, the Chinese people were nominated in the Sakamura area. As a result of the war, a group of people moved north along the Yenise River to the north of the Arctic Ocean, part of which crossed the Urals. They absorb part of the local residents of the language and cultural elements, and gradually formed a new nation - Samodi people. [11]

[Nanushka]

The question is what race they belong. For example the Chinese mentioned that Dinglings didn't look physically different from the Chinese and other Asiatic populations but also said they had blonde hair ( I can't one single source that even they were red hair) and they also claimed people such as Nenets as Dinglings and other Uralic tribes, and also compared them Tungustic people.


An interesting question to ask; ofc they were europid, who else would have blonde hair and blue eyes?? Sofi Trem and Ahmet Tasagil describes them as europid. These photos and chinese sources give their phenotype after mixing with yellow race to some extent, it shouldnt be that hard to figure out

[Sacrificed Ram]

The chinese chronicles always stated the chinese emperors as "The Ruler Of All Black Haired People", it probable because they didn't rule above non black haired people.

[Nanushka]

Scythians isn't ethnicity, it's reference to various peoples sharing a similar lifestyle.

Scythians/Sakas are referred to as Turkic by Ilhami Durmus and Abdulhalik Cay (Iskitler, 2007) in their works, especially the ruling clans and sound proof is given by what found in kurgans like Esik and Pazyryk

[MagnusAurelius]

Scythians/Sakas are referred to as Turkic by Ilhami Durmus and Abdulhalik Cay (Iskitler, 2007) in their works, especially the ruling clans and sound proof is given by what found in kurgans like Esik and Pazyryk

Seems like more Turk cult non-sense on this forum where your people wish they were IndoEuropean. Off White Delusions. Get with reality, the original Proto-Turks were pure Caucasoids who heavily mixed with Mongoloids, some of their tribes assimilating into this Steppe East Asian Culture. Modern Turks have nothing to do with being even close to the original ProtoTurks.

http://suyun.info/userfiles/bulletin/2017-7/origin_karasuk_culture.png I might be wrong previously thinking the Proto-Turks were originally Caucasoid.


http://alterling2.narod.ru/English/Maps/BulgarsE.PNG

https://www.google.ca/search?biw=1422&bih=684&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=scythian+mummy+reconstruction&oq=scythian+mummy+reconstruction&gs_l=psy-ab.3...6575.8444.0.8603.15.14.0.0.0.0.118.880.13j1 .14.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.1.60...0j0i30k1.0.Vl07D5xI_aI#imgrc=_


https://tengritagh.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/on-turkler-proto-turks-map-v1-2.png?w=700 R1a originally came from the Baltic region. Turkics replaced the IndoEuropean geographic region after most already migrated out.

[Proto-Shaman]

R1a originally came from the Baltic region. Turkics replaced the IndoEuropean geographic region after most already migrated out.
Seriously?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/R1a_origins_%28Underhill_2010%29_and_R1a1a_oldest_ expansion_and_highest_frequency_%282014%29.jpg/1024px-R1a_origins_%28Underhill_2010%29_and_R1a1a_oldest_ expansion_and_highest_frequency_%282014%29.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dwo953D.png

Proto-Turkic R-M420*

[Nanushka]

Seems like more Turk cult non-sense on this forum where your people wish they were IndoEuropean. Off White Delusions. Get with reality, the original Proto-Turks were pure Caucasoids who heavily mixed with Mongoloids, some of their tribes assimilating into this Steppe East Asian Culture. Modern Turks have nothing to do with being even close to the original ProtoTurks.

http://suyun.info/userfiles/bulletin/2017-7/origin_karasuk_culture.png I might be wrong previously thinking the Proto-Turks were originally Caucasoid.


http://alterling2.narod.ru/English/Maps/BulgarsE.PNG

https://www.google.ca/search?biw=1422&bih=684&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=scythian+mummy+reconstruction&oq=scythian+mummy+reconstruction&gs_l=psy-ab.3...6575.8444.0.8603.15.14.0.0.0.0.118.880.13j1 .14.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.1.60...0j0i30k1.0.Vl07D5xI_aI#imgrc=_


https://tengritagh.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/on-turkler-proto-turks-map-v1-2.png?w=700 R1a originally came from the Baltic region. Turkics replaced the IndoEuropean geographic region after most already migrated out.

We dont wish to be IE and we are not, who is saying that? IE (or you may wish to say aryan) are originally persian and indian and you are related with them according to some writers. So be it. But Turks are caucasian, yes and mixed with yellow race in the east, browns in middle-east and kept their original look in the west. That is so simple and plain, easy to understand for a person with an average IQ

[ButlerKing]

Seems like more Turk cult non-sense on this forum where your people wish they were IndoEuropean. Off White Delusions. Get with reality, the original Proto-Turks were pure Caucasoids who heavily mixed with Mongoloids, some of their tribes assimilating into this Steppe East Asian Culture. Modern Turks have nothing to do with being even close to the original ProtoTurks.

http://suyun.info/userfiles/bulletin/2017-7/origin_karasuk_culture.png I might be wrong previously thinking the Proto-Turks were originally Caucasoid.


http://alterling2.narod.ru/English/Maps/BulgarsE.PNG

https://www.google.ca/search?biw=1422&bih=684&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=scythian+mummy+reconstruction&oq=scythian+mummy+reconstruction&gs_l=psy-ab.3...6575.8444.0.8603.15.14.0.0.0.0.118.880.13j1 .14.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.1.60...0j0i30k1.0.Vl07D5xI_aI#imgrc=_


https://tengritagh.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/on-turkler-proto-turks-map-v1-2.png?w=700 R1a originally came from the Baltic region. Turkics replaced the IndoEuropean geographic region after most already migrated out.

You can clearly tell this is a fake map. It has picture of cartoons, drawings, a picture of a model and the warrior picture is a Alan who are proven to be a haplogroup G north Caucasian people. Also historical record shows Turks only migrated in 6th century to Central Asia, there was no Turkic people central Asia.

Making a fake map doesn't prove anything. Haplogroup Q is very low frequencies in Caucasoid but very high in Mongoloid in Siberians, Southeast Asian, Southern Chinese, Native Americans.



Possible place of origin Central Asia,[4][5] South Central Siberia)[2]

Q-M242 is the predominant Y-DNA haplogroup among Native Americans and several peoples of Central Asia and Northern Siberia. It is also the predominant Y-DNA of the Akha tribe in northern Thailand and the Dayak people of Indonesia.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Haplogroup_Q_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG



Oh whatever, apparently Southeast Asians are descendants of proto-Turks

Hahaha, you mean to tell me Southeast Asians are more closer to Proto-Turks than to modern Turks / Central Asian Turks ???? hahahahahahaha


Haplogroup Q reaches very low to high in different regions of Southeast Asia but in some tribes is very high.

Dayak people 46.8% Q

http://www.welove-indonesia.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Young-Dayak-Kenyah-girls-Borneo-Indonesia.jpg

Akha tribe 55.6% Q

http://dietmartemps.com/media_library/image/53110_1403092020241.jpg

[Böri]

And R1b is more common in northern Cameroon than in Germany...


https://i.hizliresim.com/1gO1Bb.jpg (https://hizliresim.com/1gO1Bb)

Peak in north Cameroon. Garoua region.
https://i.hizliresim.com/pWJyaz.jpg (https://hizliresim.com/pWJyaz)

American soldiers with fellow R1b's in Garoua
https://i.hizliresim.com/VMWoGq.jpg (https://hizliresim.com/VMWoGq)

Most likely R1b cotton field workers in same region
https://i.hizliresim.com/BA7Jnj.jpg (https://hizliresim.com/BA7Jnj)

[ButlerKing]

We dont wish to be IE and we are not, who is saying that? IE (or you may wish to say aryan) are originally persian and indian and you are related with them according to some writers. So be it. But Turks are caucasian, yes and mixed with yellow race in the east, browns in middle-east and kept their original look in the west. That is so simple and plain, easy to understand for a person with an average IQ

The map is fake. No scientific study would ever make such a obvious fake study created by paint the funny thing is it has a picture of Alan warrior who are proven to be haplogroup G like Caucasus people not R1a.

If you really believe haplogroup Q is proto-Turk marker than would mean South Chinese, Southeast Asians are more Turkic than the Central Asians ?

Obviously proto-Turks were Mongoloid

[ButlerKing]

An interesting question to ask; ofc they were europid, who else would have blonde hair and blue eyes?? Sofi Trem and Ahmet Tasagil describes them as europid. These photos and chinese sources give their phenotype after mixing with yellow race to some extent, it shouldnt be that hard to figure out

If they were Europoid than the Chinese would have grouped them together. The Chinese had even said people from Indians had Europoid appearance like those of Central Asia but very dark but it never mentioned Turkic tribes had Europoid appearance they always considered them different.


Haplogroup Q is the predominant marker of Southeast Asians, Siberian Turks, Native Americans, and many populations in Southern China it reaches only high frequencies in Mongoloids and half Mongoloid. If haplogroup Q is really some proto-Turk marker than how the hell your going to everyone your people are descentants of proto-Turk. A Chinese guy is properly more Turkic than a Central Asian Turk ?

There is no blue-eye, blonde hair population with haplogroup Q. A fake map created by paint using a European women model and a Alan warrior ( haplogroup G) and claiming they are R1a, Q is ridiculous.

[ButlerKing]

The chinese chronicles always stated the chinese emperors as "The Ruler Of All Black Haired People", it probable because they didn't rule above non black haired people.

" The Kirghiz khagans of the Yenisei Kirghiz Khaganate claimed descent from the Han Chinese general Li Ling, which was mentioned in the diplomatic correspondence between the Kirghiz khagan and the Tang Dynasty emperor, since the Tang imperial Li family claimed descent from Li Ling's grandfather, Li Guang. The Kirghiz qaghan assisted the Tang dynasty in destroying the Uyghur Khaganate and rescuing the Princess Taihe from the Uyghurs. They also killed a Uyghur khagan in the process. "


"They were described in Tang Dynasty texts as having "red hair and green eyes", while those with dark hair and eyes were said to be descendants of a Chinese general Li Ling.[20] In Chinese sources, these Kyrgyz tribes were described as fair-skinned, green- or blue-eyed and red-haired people with a mixture of European and Mongol features.[21][22][23][24] "

[ButlerKing]

Seriously?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/R1a_origins_%28Underhill_2010%29_and_R1a1a_oldest_ expansion_and_highest_frequency_%282014%29.jpg/1024px-R1a_origins_%28Underhill_2010%29_and_R1a1a_oldest_ expansion_and_highest_frequency_%282014%29.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dwo953D.png

Proto-Turkic R-M420*

You also have a fake map. That statue of the man next to your proto-Turk DNA is a picture of a Saka/Scythian just like the one posted by Magnus is also fake as hell posting a picture of Alan warrior (who are predominant haplogroup G ) as R1a people.

If R1b is proto-Turk than you're telling me West Europeans are more Turk than the Turkish themselves ?

[ButlerKing]

And R1b is more common in northern Cameroon than in Germany...

Haplogroup R1b can easily be debated. West Europeans and many sub-populations in Europe who are Caucasoid have this high Y-DNA. While the only Black African population who have in high frequencies are the Chadic, Cameroon tribes.

Haplogroup Q on the other hand is very common in Southeast Asian, Siberian Turkic mongoloids, Native Americans and many populations of Southern China. Where as haplogroup Q is almost non-existant in Caucasoid population. Only Mongoloids and half Mongoloid population have high Q

[Böri]

" The Kirghiz khagans of the Yenisei Kirghiz Khaganate claimed descent from the Han Chinese general Li Ling, which was mentioned in the diplomatic correspondence between the Kirghiz khagan and the Tang Dynasty emperor, since the Tang imperial Li family claimed descent from Li Ling's grandfather, Li Guang. The Kirghiz qaghan assisted the Tang dynasty in destroying the Uyghur Khaganate and rescuing the Princess Taihe from the Uyghurs. They also killed a Uyghur khagan in the process. "


"They were described in Tang Dynasty texts as having "red hair and green eyes", while those with dark hair and eyes were said to be descendants of a Chinese general Li Ling.[20] In Chinese sources, these Kyrgyz tribes were described as fair-skinned, green- or blue-eyed and red-haired people with a mixture of European and Mongol features.[21][22][23][24] "

Chinese general Li-Ling defected to Kyrgyz in 1st century B.C.
The Yenisei Kyrgyz used title Kaghan after defeating Uighurs in 840 A.D.

Around 900 years of separation.

Probably Kyrgyz kaghans wanted to please China after becoming neighbour of the Chinese empire (as Kyrgyz became new ruler of Mongolian steppe after pushing Uighurs to modern Xianjiang) or Chinese invented it themselves probably after seeing the Kyrgyz kaghan had dark eyes.
Those are more likely.

That also means by 840 AD the Kyrgyz already started to mix.


Haplogroup R1b can easily be debated. West Europeans and many sub-populations in Europe who are Caucasoid have this high Y-DNA. While the only Black African population who have in high frequencies are the Chadic, Cameroon tribes.

Haplogroup Q on the other hand is very common in Southeast Asian, Siberian Turkic mongoloids, Native Americans and many populations of Southern China. Where as haplogroup Q is almost non-existant in Caucasoid population. Only Mongoloids and half Mongoloid population have high Q

Q is present at low rates in Turkey and more common in Turkmenistan, both being rather Caucasoid groups.
How about some Turks going to S-E Asia and getting assimilated there?

[ButlerKing]

Chinese general Li-Ling defected to Kyrgyz in 1st century B.C.
The Yenisei Kyrgyz used title Kaghan after defeating Uighurs in 840 A.D.

Around 900 years of separation.

Probably Kyrgyz kaghans wanted to please China after becoming neighbour of the Chinese empire (as Kyrgyz became new ruler of Mongolian steppe after pushing Uighurs to modern Xianjiang) or Chinese invented it themselves probably after seeing the Kyrgyz kaghan had dark eyes.
Those are more likely.

That also means by 840 AD the Kyrgyz already started to mix.

Well than you can also say that Kyrgyz had red hair, green eyes was also a invention. I mean there's no modern day population that have more than 20% red hair. And red hair is almost non-existant in Turkey, Central Asia.

The highest red hair in in the world are in the pure Northwest European Irish, Scottish and in the Udmurt Uralic people are surprisingly also mixed Mongoloid/Caucasoid but a lot more closer to Caucasoid but none of these people even have more than 20% of red hair.


http://i.imgur.com/ymbBd.png



Q is present at low rates in Turkey and more common in Turkmenistan, both being rather Caucasoid groups.
How about some Turks going to S-E Asia and getting assimilated there?


Not surprised is common in Turkmenistan who are a half Mongoloid population.


Turkmen have 42.6% haplogroup Q and they look more Mongoloid

http://i66.tinypic.com/r89x6r.png

One do not even need DNA study to prove they are Mongoloid but whatever
http://i46.tinypic.com/2nsqvbt.png
https://orexca.com/images/fotogallery/img_full/1321696031_4174.jpg

Y-DNA haplogroups of Turkmens[edit]

Recent studies on the Turkmens of Iran and Afghanistan suggest that haplogroup Q is the dominant Y-DNA in Turkmens. So far, there have been two detailed studies on the Y-DNA of Turkmens.

One piece of research (Cristofaro et al.,2013) found that the Turkmens in Afghanistan have 31.1% Q-M25 (currently Q1alb) and 2.7% Q1a3-M34 6(currently Q1a2) (Q total 25/74=33.8%), followed by R1a1a-M198 (16.2%, also R1b 2.74%, R2 1.4%), J1c3-Page8 (8.1%, also other various J 9.5%), N1b-P43 (6.8%), G2a-P303 (4.1%), L1a-M76 (4.1%), and various subgroups of E1b1b 5.4%, O3 (KL2, M134) 2.7%, C(M401) 1.4%, H(M69*) 1.4%.[36]

Another study (Grugni et al.,2012) found that 42.6% (29/68) of Iranian Turkmens (in Golestan) have haplogroup Q-M25 (currently Q1a1b), followed by R1a1a-M198 (14.5%, also R1b 4.3%, R2 1.4%), J1c3-Page8 (5.8%, also other various J 8.8%), G2a (5.8%), L3-M357 (5.8%), E1b1b (4.3%), NO (2.9%, xN, xO), H (1.4%), T (1.4%).[37]

[Proto-Shaman]

You also have a fake map. That statue of the man next to your proto-Turk DNA is a picture of a Saka/Scythian..
He is from Boldyrevo I kurgan cemetery you moron. google "Yamna Boldyrewo I, kurgan nr 1".

[ButlerKing]

He is from Boldyrevo I kurgan cemetery you moron. google "Yamna Boldyrewo I, kurgan nr 1".

I'm no moron. OPEN YOUR SLANTY EYES

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan


----> Scythian-Saka-Siberian monuments[edit]

"The monuments of these cultures coincide with Scythian-Saka-Siberian monuments. Scythian-Saka-Siberian monuments have common features, and sometimes common genetic roots.[5]

[Proto-Shaman]

I'm no moron. OPEN YOUR SLANTY EYES

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan


----> Scythian-Saka-Siberian monuments[edit]

"The monuments of these cultures coincide with Scythian-Saka-Siberian monuments. Scythian-Saka-Siberian monuments have common features, and sometimes common genetic roots.[5]

ButtKing? I have a serious question to you. Are you actually mentally ill?

[Böri]

I'm no moron. OPEN YOUR SLANTY EYES

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan


----> Scythian-Saka-Siberian monuments[edit]

"The monuments of these cultures coincide with Scythian-Saka-Siberian monuments. Scythian-Saka-Siberian monuments have common features, and sometimes common genetic roots.[5]

Kurgan is a Turkic word, meaning burial place.

Pazyryk kurgan samples were tested, they are ydna N and autosomally closest to Altay Turks.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?191255-Pazyryk-Scythians-Y-Dna-N1b

[ButlerKing]

Kurgan is a Turkic word, meaning burial place.

Pazyryk kurgan samples were tested, they are ydna N and autosomally closest to Altay Turks.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?191255-Pazyryk-Scythians-Y-Dna-N1b

Is a Turkic word but it's also a Indo-European words. Some of the samples of haplogroup N and others were R1a.

[ButlerKing]

ButtKing? I have a serious question to you. Are you actually mentally ill?

How am I mentally ill ? It clearly means Kurgans correspond with the Scythian/Saka that means they are thing connected together. I don't understand people like you keep making these fake maps of proto-Turk DNA. Maybe many Turkish people are mentally ill ? Why I say this:

1) You Turkish always claim this and that haplogroups as proto-Turks DNA when many other non-Turk population having it 3x to 10x higher, people from Turkey have very little of that DNA.

2) You claim proto-Turks were blonde, red hair when your Turkish population have the tiniest percent of blonde hair/red hair in all Europe.

I don't understand a Turkish logic. Claiming Turks were R1b, R1a that's like saying West/East Europeans are direct proto-Turks descendant not people from Turkey. Claiming they were blonde hair/red hair that's like saying over 98% of your population have nothing to do with Turks. I don't get it's why your people always claim to be related with ancient ethnic group that are clearly neither genetically related or share physical description.

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/82c62bd834164b378e486bf0b589edc8/football-international-friendly-the-netherlands-vs-turkey-turkish-bwb4xg.jpg
http://c8.alamy.com/comp/CWXMCY/fifa-world-cup-qualifier-the-netherlands-vs-turkey-amsterdam-nl-7-CWXMCY.jpg

[Proto-Shaman]

How am I mentally ill ? It clearly means Kurgans correspond with the Scythian/Saka that means they are thing connected together. I don't understand people like you keep making these fake maps of proto-Turk DNA. Maybe many Turkish people are mentally ill ? Why I say this:

1) You Turkish always claim this and that haplogroups as proto-Turks DNA when many other non-Turk population having it 3x to 10x higher, people from Turkey have very little of that DNA.

2) You claim proto-Turks were blonde, red hair when your Turkish population have the tiniest percent of blonde hair/red hair in all Europe.

I don't understand a Turkish logic. Claiming Turks were R1b, R1a that's like saying West/East Europeans are direct proto-Turks descendant not people from Turkey. Claiming they were blonde hair/red hair that's like saying over 98% of your population have nothing to do with Turks. I don't get it's why your people always claim to be related with ancient ethnic group that are clearly neither genetically related or share physical description.

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/82c62bd834164b378e486bf0b589edc8/football-international-friendly-the-netherlands-vs-turkey-turkish-bwb4xg.jpg
http://c8.alamy.com/comp/CWXMCY/fifa-world-cup-qualifier-the-netherlands-vs-turkey-amsterdam-nl-7-CWXMCY.jpg

ButthurtKing, I never used a Scythian/Saka on my proto-Turks DNA map. It's still a YAMNA reconstruction.