Canada's new "Trolling Law"

[Grumpy Cat]

You think other countries will follow suit? Maybe the UK will be next after this.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/04/29/schoolgirl-hangs-herself-after-shes-bullied-by-online-trolls-3696590/

The law in a nutshell:

If person is distressed, a court order will be issued to the offender to cease electronic contact.

If offender fails to comply, they will receive a court order to stop using social networking.

After that, if offender fails to comply, they will be banned from owning computers, smartphones, or tablets.

After that, still failure to comply, a fine of $5000 and/or jail time.

It's bad that such a law should be passed, parents should be teaching their kids that if someone tells you to stop, stop. It's not an invitation for more harassment. This shouldnt have been something for the courts in the first placd if parents did their jobs.

[The Lawspeaker]

Another direct violation of the freedom of speech. We don't need people to tell us what to do with our trolls. We can kick them out ourselves.

[Grumpy Cat]

Another direct violation of the freedom of speech.

No it's not. This is about harassment like what happened in the two publicized suicides in this country. People who harassed young girls and didn't let up. This is what this law is addressing.

I applaud this law, personally.

There is no censorship of speech anywhere in the law.

[Humanophage]

Are there any relatively well-off countries which respect freedom on the internet and don't engage in this inane surge of new limits on what people post online? I know the new limits are pretty bad in Russia and the UK.

[The Lawspeaker]

No it's not. This is about harassment like what happened in the two publicized suicides in this country. People who harassed young girls and didn't let up. This is what this law is addressing.

I applaud this law, personally.
But that has nothing to do with trolling. That has to do with harassment. There is a difference between the two and the present anti-harassment laws should already deal with this kind of harassment. That legal framework is already there and it just needs to be upheld and we don't need laws to stifle the freedom of speech. This is like shooting a mosquito with a bazooka while you never bothered to pick up the fly swapper.

[alfieb]

What a disgraceful law.

Anglo countries are awful.

Australia: "THERE WAS A MASS KILLING! WE NEED TO TAKE AWAY THE GUNS!"
Canada: "BULLIED PEOPLE KILLED THEMSELVES! WE NEED TO TAKE AWAY FREEDOM OF SPEECH!"

[Grumpy Cat]

But that has nothing to do with trolling. That has to do with harassment. There is a difference between the two and the present anti-harassment laws should already deal with this kind of harassment.

There were no laws previously in Canada that dealt with the Internet. Basically the new law covers continuous contact even after being asked to stop and distributing of personal pictures and other identifying information without consent for malicious purposes.

People are calling it the "trolling law", but it's a cyberbullying legislation, just the harshest one passed to date.

[Loki]

What a disgraceful law.

Anglo countries are awful.

Australia: "THERE WAS A MASS KILLING! WE NEED TO TAKE AWAY THE GUNS!"
Canada: "BULLIED PEOPLE KILLED THEMSELVES! WE NEED TO TAKE AWAY FREEDOM OF SPEECH!"

That's bullshit. This law will just punish offenders, not regular users of the internet. A harasser is a harasser - whether in real life or on the internet. Doing it cyber-style is no different really. In fact it can be worse.

[The Lawspeaker]

If the kids involved could actually be arrested and charged for harassment for once then the judicial services would actually do their work but it shows that the legislative branch of government is out of control. Instead of having the police enforce the current laws they introduce new laws that just curtail the freedom of speech while not even dealing with the existing problem. A very expensive and dangerous symbol that should be repealed at once.

[The Lawspeaker]

There were no laws previously in Canada that dealt with the Internet. Basically the new law covers continuous contact even after being asked to stop and distributing of personal pictures and other identifying information without consent for malicious purposes.

People are calling it the "trolling law", but it's a cyberbullying legislation, just the harshest one passed to date.
So you're saying that Canada had no anti-harassment laws ?

[The Lawspeaker]

Do you have the actual law text ? I will read it and comment on it.

[alfieb]

That's bullshit. This law will just punish offenders, not regular users of the internet. A harasser is a harasser - whether in real life or on the internet. Doing it cyber-style is no different really. In fact it can be worse.
You're naive if you don't think governments would overreach like they always do. This is just another tool in their arsenal now that they can use against the individual.

[Grumpy Cat]

So you're saying that Canada had no anti-harassment laws ?

No Internet harassment laws. Any other medium, yes. This lead to police shrugging off harassment because they could not do anything as stuff online didn't hold up in court. This is what happened in the Retaeh Parsons case. The law was passed after her death.

[The Lawspeaker]

You're naive if you don't think governments would overreach like they always do. This is just another tool in their arsenal now that they can use against the individual.
I have noticed that when actual crimes are committed the police is nowhere to be seen and the courts won't help you. But heaven beware when a politician or banker.. or in our case the Queen gets "attacked" by a man throwing a wax light at the Queen's carriage: he is still held in a mental hospital without even getting a right to a fair trial.

[Grumpy Cat]

Do you have the actual law text ? I will read it and comment on it.

I've been looking for it, it's not on the Parliament site yet. It was passed in less than a week after the death of that girl and national as well as international outrage, probably why. The case was bad PR for Canada.

Although, if you ask me, the case is more bad PR for the parenting styles of Canadian parents, than any lawmakers.

[The Lawspeaker]

No Internet harassment laws. Any other medium, yes. This lead to police shrugging off harassment because they could not do anything as stuff online didn't hold up in court. This is what happened in the Retaeh Parsons case. The law was passed after her death.
Then the laws were not water proof and they just had to be amended (a process which is fairly natural around the world). No such anti-free speech law would have been necessary (and it still isn't) or desirable.


The case was bad PR for Canada.
That explains why they were so quick to circumvent their own Charter and come up with a law that curtails the freedom of speech instead of just updating the anti-harassment laws like they should have been doing and actually enforcing them.

[Grumpy Cat]

That explains why they were so quick to circumvent their own Charter and come up with a law that curtails the freedom of speech instead of just updating the anti-harassment laws and actually enforcing them like they should have been.

I'm outraged it took two girls to die (and it publicized, many died before that) before this issue even got discussed. I was involved in activism about this since the death of Amanda Todd, plus dealing with my own issues before then and getting nowhere. Remember, I could have gone the libel route but that is a civil court law so it would have cost me LOTS of money. Now it's a criminal court matter.

Again, there is nothing about censorship in it, it's to stop people from making unwanted contact.

[alfieb]

It was passed in less than a week after the death of that girl and national as well as international outrage, probably why. The case was bad PR for Canada.

Although, if you ask me, the case is more bad PR for the parenting styles of Canadian parents, than any lawmakers.

The girl's parents, for one. I've never even once thought of killing myself, and neither have my sisters. They're going to second-guess their parenting decisions for the rest of their lives, as well they should.

But ultimately, the blame goes to anyone who kills themselves. Personal accountability rests on your own shoulders.

To be a bully is a terrible thing, and there should be protection from excessive harassment, but nobody made her kill herself.

[Amun]

If this law is applied to every member on theapricity, we all should prepare for going for a very long time to jail :D

[Grumpy Cat]

The girl's parents, for one. I've never even once thought of killing myself, and neither have my sisters. They're going to second-guess their parenting decisions for the rest of their lives, as well they should.


Uh what? What about the guys who raped her, and then the guys and girls who harassed her?

I live in the city where it happened, the guy who raped her is an ass. He was arrested and did time in juvie for pulling a BB gun on a cop (lucky he wasn't killed, dumbass!). Then he gets out and torments this girl?

HIS parents are obviously not doing their jobs. Or maybe just parent. I bet he doesn't even know who his father is.

[The Lawspeaker]

I'm outraged it took two girls to die (and it publicized, many died before that) before this issue even got discussed. I was involved in activism about this since the death of Amanda Todd, plus dealing with my own issues before then and getting nowhere. Remember, I could have gone the libel route but that is a civil court law so it would have cost me LOTS of money. Now it's a criminal court matter.

Again, there is nothing about censorship in it, it's to stop people from making unwanted contact.
Because both the legislative branch and the police and the judicial service hadn't bothered to understand that this is the year 2013 and there is something called the internet which allows for greater anonymity (with all the nasty results that may come from it). While this girl has become the victim of her torturers, she and her parents equally became of a government that is too complacent and evidently too self-absorbed to govern a country and that now just uses her, as a cheap political motive, to enforce laws upon a people that aren't necessary and even dangerous while they should updating the old laws and actually bothering to enforce them. I would go as far as calling the government and the police an accessory to her rape and death because they did not do their work like they should have been doing (the rapists/harassers should have been arrested and charged with rape and the legal framework should have been there to deal with them).

[Grumpy Cat]

I would go as far as calling the government and the police an accessory to her death because they did not do their work like they should have been doing.

They couldn't because there was no law to charge her under. It's 2013 and many Canadian laws are still stuck in 1867.

[The Lawspeaker]

They couldn't because there was no law to charge her under. It's 2013 and many Canadian laws are still stuck in 1867.
And that's exactly what makes the government an accessory to her rape and death because they didn't do their job: their services didn't arrest the culprits, didn't charge them and the legal framework wasn't there. Their complacency is of the disgusting kind that they may just as well have done the deed themselves because they, by doing nothing, allowed for it to happen.

[The Lawspeaker]

In Dutch we have an adage: regeren is vooruitzien. To govern is to look ahead (be prepared). They weren't and they didn't and that makes the government incapable of governing the country. All in all there should be only one solution: Harper should go to the Queen or her highest representative, tender the resignation of his Cabinet and call for elections. They made the single, worst error that a government could make: not looking ahead, not preparing themselves and be complacent. It's a mortal sin. And this should be followed by widespread sackings within the higher echelons of the police and the judiciary: they too are responsible because they didn't do a thing.

[Grumpy Cat]

In Dutch we have an adage: regeren is vooruitzien. To govern is to look ahead (be prepared). They weren't and they didn't and that makes the government incapable of governing the country. All in all there should be only one solution: Harper should go to the Queen or her highest representative, tender the resignation of his Cabinet and call for elections. They made the single, worst error that a government could make: not looking ahead, not preparing themselves and be complacent. It's a mortal sin.

I agree with you, especially because I can relate to the frustration of these girls.

[The Lawspeaker]

I agree with you, especially because I can relate to the frustration of these girls.
By doing nothing they allow it to happen.. so they should not be allowed to govern but be forced to resign in disgrace. They are evidently unfit to do a proper job.

[Grumpy Cat]

By doing nothing they allow it to happen.. so they should not be allowed to govern but be forced to resign in disgrace. They are evidently unfit to do a proper job.

It's not just Harper, in fairness. The Internet was around before he was elected. I remember the first time I had someone threatening to rape and murder me over IRC, Chretien was PM back then. I didn't tell anyone though, I got some of my "not so nice" friends to deal with it.

[The Lawspeaker]

It's not just Harper, in fairness. The Internet was around before he was elected. I remember the first time I had someone threatening to rape and murder me over IRC, Chretien was PM back then. I didn't tell anyone though, I got some of my "not so nice" friends to deal with it.
Well yes the Internet has been around for the last 20 years. That gave him (and former cabinets) plenty of plenty of time to wisen up and look ahead. He didn't. And thus he is responsible. And thus should he resign.

It it happened here in the Netherlands and I was Prime Minister I would have gone to the King to tender the resignation of the Cabinet because we were ultimately collectively responsible.. and call for elections (because also the legislative branch is responsible). If you can't stand the heat.. stay out of the kitchen. Particularly in the world of politics. It's not about the money.. it's about the ambt. The responsibility that weighs on your shoulders and apparently in the case of Mr. Harper the shoulders have given way.

[alfieb]

Uh what? What about the guys who raped her, and then the guys and girls who harassed her?

I live in the city where it happened, the guy who raped her is an ass. He was arrested and did time in juvie for pulling a BB gun on a cop (lucky he wasn't killed, dumbass!). Then he gets out and torments this girl?

HIS parents are obviously not doing their jobs. Or maybe just parent. I bet he doesn't even know who his father is.

I believe in life imprisonment for rapists.

But rape isn't murder. She's not dead because of his parents. She's dead because she chose to be.

[The Lawspeaker]

But rape isn't murder. She's not dead because of his parents. She's dead because she chose to be.
She is dead because the police didn't enforce the laws.. because the government DIDN'T introduce the kind of laws that are required in this day and age. All in all one can say that tax money has been wasted and a life has been lost because of government complacency. Rapists are crooks that should be thrown in prison for the rest of their lives.. and they didn't even do that.

[alfieb]

She is dead because the police didn't enforce the laws.. because the government DIDN'T introduce the kind of laws that are required in this day and age. All in all one can say that tax money has been wasted and a life has been lost because of government complacency. Rapists are crooks that should be thrown in prison for the rest of their lives.. and they didn't even do that.

No.

A life has been lost because she took it.

Personal responsibility trumps societal responsibility. As soon as it doesn't, we can justifiably blame everyone else for our problems. Was she a victim of abuse? Absolutely. Does that justify her own actions? No.

[The Lawspeaker]

No.

A life has been lost because she took it.

Personal responsibility trumps societal responsibility. As soon as it doesn't, we can justifiably blame everyone else for our problems.
Personal responsibility only exists when people are safe. We pay taxes and elect our governments for a reason: to be kept safe. She died because the government didn't do it's job on so many levels. No arrests had been made and no prosecution had taken place.

[alfieb]

Personal responsibility only exists when people are safe. We pay taxes and elect our governments for a reason: to be kept safe. She died because the government didn't do it's job on so many levels.
Safety is a myth. You can be hit by a car tomorrow.

You're only as safe as you make yourself. That's why while I don't own a gun and probably never will, I'm glad America has a culture of self-defense rather than relying entirely on the state to protect you. They can't. Likewise, in Sicily, everyone owns a gun. Legal or otherwise.

[The Lawspeaker]

Safety is a myth. You can be hit by a car tomorrow.

You're only as safe as you make yourself. That's why while I don't own a gun and probably never will, I'm glad America has a culture of self-defense rather than relying entirely on the state to protect you. They can't.
I prefer a European mindset. Officials don't get forced into becoming part of the government - we elect them. We however get forced to pay our taxes. So they should have thought about the fact that on their shoulders rests a burden. Either they run and may get elected.. and if they know they can't do it.. they should stay behind the geraniums like most of us do. So this is how it works: we pay our taxes, they do their job and if they don't we throw them out of office. That's how it works.

Did you actually bother to realise that this is a minor girl btw and that NO ARRESTS HAD BEEN MADE ?

The European idea means that there is something called "society" and that people are to be protected from the madness and cowardice in some. Yours, thoroughly uncivilised, is called the "law of the jungle".

[alfieb]

I prefer a European mindset. Officials don't get forced into becoming part of the government - we elect them. We however get forced to pay our taxes. So they should have thought about the fact that on their shoulders rests a burden. Either they run and may get elected.. and if they know they can't do it.. they should stay behind the geraniums like most of us do. So this is how it works: we pay our taxes, they do their job and if they don't we throw them out of office. That's how it works.
You're an idealist. I'm a realist. In Italy, the government are all but worthless and counterproductive. No matter whether the left or the right wins. Italy is just as European as Holland, only (employed) Italians are less reliant on the government because they know government probably won't be there for them when they need them the most. Hence why Sicilians hired the mafia to protect their businesses and everyone has firearms.


Did you actually bother to realise that this is a minor girl btw and that NO ARRESTS HAD BEEN MADE ?
And that justifies killing yourself? You and I both agree that this is a bad law. The government didn't do their job. The rapist should be in jail. That girl should be alive. She's not... and they all share some responsibility, but ultimately, the bulk of it is on her own shoulders.

[Äike]

Another direct violation of the freedom of speech. We don't need people to tell us what to do with our trolls. We can kick them out ourselves.

Loki is a troll himself, I told him that the threads in the Eesti section is constantly being trolled, he responded with making the most trollish thread ever.

A former TA member killed herself and being trolled on The Apricity with no action from Loki or anyone else was probably one of the factors that led her to that, at least I heard something like that.

Loki's goal is to rename "The Apricity" to "The Trollcity" in the near future.

[Szegedist]

What % of TA members would be arrested if this law was passed internationally?

[The Lawspeaker]

You're an idealist. I'm a realist. In Italy, the government are all but worthless and counterproductive. No matter whether the left or the right wins. Italy is just as European as Holland, only Italians are less reliant on the government because they know government probably won't be there for them when they need them the most.
I have been to Italy a few times in my life and Italy is a rechtsstaat (a state under the rule of law) like all other European countries. Your idea would be... idealistic. Indeed it would be very American: selfish, libertarian.



And that justifies killing yourself? You and I both agree that this is a bad law. The government didn't do their job. The rapist should be in jail. That girl should be alive. She's not... and they all share some responsibility, but ultimately, the bulk of it is on her own shoulders.
She wasn't helped by anyone while she had been raped and shamed by the people that supposedly would have been her friends. The police didn't do anything to protect her. So yes.. she must have been very sad, very traumatised and very depressed and desperate indeed. Some actual life experience might help you. I have known rape victims. And they are.. fucked up for life (to put it bluntly). It destroys a person from within.

[Loki]

A former TA member killed herself and being trolled on The Apricity with no action from Loki or anyone else was probably one of the factors that led her to that, at least I heard something like that.



That's absolute fucking bullshit. Say such nonsense again here and you will be banned. It's not even funny, and I'm serious. :mad: To accuse me of such a thing is beneath you, and beneath anyone worthy to be called an Apricity member.

[The Lawspeaker]

Loki is a troll himself, I told him that the threads in the Eesti section is constantly being trolled, he responded with making the most trollish thread ever.

A former TA member killed herself and being trolled on The Apricity with no action from Loki or anyone else was probably one of the factors that led her to that, at least I heard something like that.

Loki's goal is to rename "The Apricity" to "The Trollcity" in the near future.
What the bloody hell, Karl ?! With this you are disgracing her very memory here. You should be ashamed of yourself as there are people here that still miss her every single day since they considered to be a friend. Just how the fuck dare you ?

[alfieb]

I have been to Italy a few times in my life and Italy is a rechtsstaat (a state under the rule of law) like all other European countries. Your idea would be... idealistic. Indeed it would be very American: selfish, libertarian.
Selfishness is not always a bad thing. At the end of the day, we are all that we have. There are few things in life that are more selfish by definition than suicide.


She wasn't helped by anyone while she had been raped and shamed by the people that supposedly would have been her friends. The police didn't do anything to protect her. So yes.. she must have been very sad, very traumatised and very depressed and desperate indeed. Some actual life experience might help you. I have known rape victims. And they are.. fucked up for life (to put it bluntly). It destroys a person from within.
Oh, I'm well aware. My mother was assaulted. My grandmother was raped. I believe rape is worse than murder. I believe rapists are subhuman scum.

I agree that the police failed to do their jobs. However, I don't agree with the narrative which you and the OP seem to subscribe to, that the government is obligated to act because people kill themselves.


The government is obligated to uphold the law. Whether she's alive or not is inconsequential.

[The Lawspeaker]

Selfishness is not a bad thing. At the end of the day, we are all that we have.
Au contraire. It's the worst possible drive that one can have.



Oh, I'm well aware. My mother was assaulted. My grandmother was raped. I believe rape is worse than murder. I believe rapists are subhuman scum.

I agree that the police failed to do their jobs. However, I don't agree with the narrative which you and the OP seem to subscribe to, that the government is obligated to act because people kill themselves.


The government is obligated to uphold the law. Whether she's alive or not is inconsequential.
And they didn't do that while she was alive.. and probably not when she is dead. So your point being ?

[Graham]

Surely it could already fall into existing laws. Like stalking or anti-harassment.

edit: already discussed.

[Äike]

That's absolute fucking bullshit. Say such nonsense again here and you will be banned. It's not even funny, and I'm serious. :mad: To accuse me of such a thing is beneath you, and beneath anyone worthy to be called an Apricity member.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?76934-Should-Estonia-be-incorporated-into-the-Russian-Federation

An Estonian version of Inese would be pretty depressed by something like that.


What the bloody hell, Karl ?! With this you are disgracing her very memory here. You should be ashamed of yourself as there are people here that still miss her every single day since they considered to be a friend. Just how the fuck dare you ?

If trolling and harassing certain members/sections/threads etc. wouldn't encouraged then I wouldn't have to bring this up. I rarely post here anymore, even the most intellectual thread about a completely neutral topic gets trolled and reporting posts/pointing that out to Loki just results in more trolling... by guess who. This is a general tendency in the entire forum.

Some people with weaker mental health might be influenced my things like that. What I'm saying is that people should learn from the past.

[alfieb]

Au contraire. It's the worst possible drive that one can have.
Why?


And they didn't do that while she was alive.. and probably not when she is dead. So your point being ?
That she is ultimately to blame for her death, not anyone else. Other than that, we're more-or-less in agreement, at least on this subject, albeit not philosophically.

[The Lawspeaker]

-----
Karl. I personally think that you should have your membership revoked. Permanently. Go join the ranks of the cunts that are responsible for doing this to her and are now blaming it on someone else.

[The Lawspeaker]

Why?
Because, quite frankly, it makes you incapable of being around other people.



That she is ultimately to blame for her death, not anyone else.
I personally begin to wonder how old you are because you seem to lack actual experiences. What you're basically implying is that the weak should not be defended and that they can be picked off at ones fancy.

[Graham]

Loki is a troll himself, I told him that the threads in the Eesti section is constantly being trolled, he responded with making the most trollish thread ever.

A former TA member killed herself and being trolled on The Apricity with no action from Loki or anyone else was probably one of the factors that led her to that, at least I heard something like that.

Loki's goal is to rename "The Apricity" to "The Trollcity" in the near future.

Karl stop using Inese's death as your game, to spite on your small grievance..

[Äike]

Karl. I personally think that you should have your membership revoked. Permanently. Go join the ranks of the cunts that are responsible for doing this to her and are now blaming it on someone else.

I was nicer to her than the majority of people here, but this is not the point. My point is that "trolling" can have a severe effect on a handful of people as seen from the original article, thus trolling shouldn't be encouraged nor left unnoticed.

[alfieb]

Because, quite frankly, it makes you incapable of being around other people.
A matter of opinion masquerading as fact. You seem to be quite fond of that.


I personally begin to wonder how old you are because you seem to lack actual experiences.
Only a few years younger than yourself. I've lived quite the colorful life. If you believe society is to blame for someone killing themselves, you're perfectly entitled to hold that view. I only believe that it is entirely wrong and morally repugnant.

[The Lawspeaker]

I was nicer to her than the majority of people here, but this is not the point. My point is that "trolling" can have a severe effect on a handful of people as seen from the original article, thus trolling shouldn't be encouraged nor left unnoticed.
You're nice enough to abuse her unfortunate demise for your own sick, disgustingly twisted games. Some "friend" you are then.

[Vasconcelos]

Regardless, Karl has a point on the amount of trolling that goes around, I've been very critical of this for ages but nothing seems to fix this issue. Sometimes a troll gets banned, but then suddenly the ban gets revoked and all the shitstorms happen once again.

[The Lawspeaker]

A matter of opinion masquerading as fact. You seem to be quite fond of that.
It's called "having actual life experiences"



Only a few years younger than yourself. I've lived quite the colorful life. If you believe society is to blame for someone killing themselves, you're perfectly entitled to hold that view. I only believe that it is entirely wrong and morally repugnant.
I am afraid you haven't learned much then.

[Loki]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?76934-Should-Estonia-be-incorporated-into-the-Russian-Federation

An Estonian version of Inese would be pretty depressed by something like that.



If trolling and harassing certain members/sections/threads etc. wouldn't encouraged then I wouldn't have to bring this up. I rarely post here anymore, even the most intellectual thread about a completely neutral topic gets trolled and reporting posts/pointing that out to Loki just results in more trolling... by guess who. This is a general tendency in the entire forum.

Some people with weaker mental health might be influenced my things like that. What I'm saying is that people should learn from the past.

Perhaps you should just fuck off, and stay in your own world. Jesus you're so grumpy and cannot understand humour. You are absolutely dull, grumpy and boring.

[Loki]

Regardless, Karl has a point on the amount of trolling that goes around, I've been very critical of this for ages but nothing seems to fix this issue. Sometimes a troll gets banned, but then suddenly the ban gets revoked and all the shitstorms happen once again.

Leave those matters to staff.

[alfieb]

It's called "having actual life experiences"


I am afraid you haven't learned much then.
Your smug condescension is irritating. As I have no interest in Karl's hijacking of the thread, I'm done here.

[Vasconcelos]

Leave those matters to staff.

It's not like I have a choice, but the problems still exist.

[The Lawspeaker]

Your smug condescension is irritating. As I have no interest in Karl's hijacking of the thread, I'm done here.
Maybe it is. But maybe you need it too: people are no individuals. Pure individualism leads to the strong abusing the weak. And that's why I believe in society. And in order. I am not sure about the English translation but it is said that "de mens is geneigd tot al het kwade " as today we have seen in Karl. I prefer to make sure that it can't happen. By maintaining order.

[Äike]

Karl stop using Inese's death as your game, to spite on your small grievance..

I'm just saying that a troll-free internet/forum etc. would be better for people's mental health + a handful of people can be quite easily affected by trolling.

Like in 2009, there was this Russian member who was a complete troll and everyone hated him and wanted him banned, but Loki loved him and even supported. One of my first posts was directed to that Russian troll and Loki sent me a neg rep instantly.

Me and Inese had countless arguments with that Russian member, Hors. I'm talking about hundreds if not almost 1000 posts. Everyone thought he is a complete troll.

At one point when that Russian guy went from 100% trolling to 150% trolling, Loki gave him a 1 week ban. The Russian guy Hors was so upset by losing his "favored status" that he didn't return after that. He is still unbanned, though.

To sum it up, trolling shouldn't be left unnoticed nor encouraged (like Loki's recent thread in the Eesti section), we never know what kind of people visit this forum. Some of them might be mentally quite affected by such "trolling". Many people on the internet just turn on their PC to vent out all their frustration and be mean against people & "troll" to feel better about themselves. Most of us realize that, but some people (with weaker mental health) just don't.

[Loki]

It's not like I have a choice, but the problems still exist.

What do you expect? Utopia? Apricity is as good as you can get. I don't get why people always nag on the negative. I think it's because they're negative people themselves.

[Dombra]

I'm just saying that a troll-free internet/forum etc. would be better for people's mental health + a handful of people can be quite easily affected by trolling.

Like in 2009, there was this Russian member who was a complete troll and everyone hated him and wanted him banned, but Loki loved him and even supported. One of my first posts was directed to that Russian troll and Loki sent me a neg rep instantly.

Me and Inese had countless arguments with that Russian member, Hors. I'm talking about hundreds if not almost 1000 posts. Everyone thought he is a complete troll.

At one point when that Russian guy went from 100% trolling to 150% trolling, Loki gave him a 1 week ban. The Russian guy Hors was so upset by losing his "favored status" that he didn't return after that. He is still unbanned, though.

To sum it up, trolling shouldn't be left unnoticed nor encouraged (like Loki's recent thread in the Eesti section), we never know what kind of people visit this forum. Some of them might be mentally quite affected by such "trolling". Many people on the internet just turn on their PC to vent out all their frustration and be mean against people & "troll" to feel better about themselves. Most of us realize that, but some people (with weaker mental health) just don't.

Argument invalid. Trolls may teach us to track real idiots

[The Lawspeaker]

Ah I guess your "friends" sent you here, Karl, because we haven't seen you for a while. The same friends that lied about her death and were the trolls around here. Why don't you go and join them ? What good does it do to tarnish her memory ? What good does it do to abuse her death (which is what you are doing) for your own sick jollies ?

[Loki]

I'm just saying that a troll-free internet/forum etc. would be better for people's mental health + a handful of people can be quite easily affected by trolling.

Like in 2009, there was this Russian member who was a complete troll and everyone hated him and wanted him banned, but Loki loved him and even supported. One of my first posts was directed to that Russian troll and Loki sent me a neg rep instantly.

Me and Inese had countless arguments with that Russian member, Hors. I'm talking about hundreds if not almost 1000 posts. Everyone thought he is a complete troll.

At one point when that Russian guy went from 100% trolling to 150% trolling, Loki gave him a 1 week ban. The Russian guy Hors was so upset by losing his "favored status" that he didn't return after that. He is still unbanned, though.

To sum it up, trolling shouldn't be left unnoticed nor encouraged (like Loki's recent thread in the Eesti section), we never know what kind of people visit this forum. Some of them might be mentally quite affected by such "trolling". Many people on the internet just turn on their PC to vent out all their frustration and be mean against people & "troll" to feel better about themselves. Most of us realize that, but some people (with weaker mental health) just don't.

Who are you to dictate to me who to ban or not? It's not your decision.

And again Karl - if you couldn't get the humour in my thread, then there is something unsavoury to you.

[Graham]

Ah I guess your "friends" sent you here, Karl, because we haven't seen you for a while. The same friends that lied about her death and were the trolls around here. Why don't you go and join them ? What good does it do to tarnish her memory ?

It was that blonde German lass, who Inese disliked, & wasn't speaking too. Who started the whole silly thing.

[Loki]

Yes well despite Karl's long membership on this forum, I am really thinking of terminating it. It's not worth having him around, he's a negative influence.

[The Lawspeaker]

It was that blonde German lass, who Inese disliked, & wasn't speaking too. Who started the whole silly thing.
Exactly. And then too think that we have had her a valued member of our forum as well. I am not sure whether there is an English variant but we have kept a snake to our chest (as if we held a baby).

[The Lawspeaker]

Yes well despite Karl's long membership on this forum, I am really thinking of terminating it. It's not worth having him around, he's a negative influence.
You have my full support. Just throw him out, please. I am not sure about you, boss, but I have seen enough. More than enough.

[Grumpy Cat]

I was blamed for Inese's death and I never spoke to her. Ironically, those same people drove ME into a similar mental state that they were saying I did to others. It's why I was at every protest in my part of the country that lead to this law being passed.

[Loki]

You have my full support. Just throw him out, please. I am not sure, boss, but I have seen enough. More than enough.

I'm on the verge of doing that, he's lost my sympathy - despite being a cute blonde innocent-faced Estonian. Behind that mask he's quite nasty and intellectually dishonest.

[The Lawspeaker]

I'm on the verge of doing that, he's lost my sympathy - despite being a cute blonde innocent-faced Estonian. Behind that mask he's quite nasty and intellectually dishonest.
Another snake that we have held to our chest. I am personally disappointed in him as I thought he was wiser than that.

[Äike]

You're nice enough to abuse her unfortunate demise for your own sick, disgustingly twisted games. Some "friend" you are then.

I'm not abusing anything, use your brain and read my posts and you will understand them.

[The Lawspeaker]

I was blamed for Inese's death and I never spoke to her. Ironically, those same people drove ME into a similar mental state that they were saying I did to others. It's why I was at every protest in my part of the country that lead to this law being passed.
And this is why we should strike down on any of the other bastards that would try to pull this stunt again.


Karl: for as I am concerned.. your days are numbered. You dirty little traitor. And then to think that you would be wiser than this.

[The Lawspeaker]

I'm not abusing anything, use your brain and read my posts and you will understand them.
Just get out already. You're no longer wanted here.

[Äike]

Ah I guess your "friends" sent you here, Karl, because we haven't seen you for a while. The same friends that lied about her death and were the trolls around here. Why don't you go and join them ? What good does it do to tarnish her memory ? What good does it do to abuse her death (which is what you are doing) for your own sick jollies ?

What "friends"? From 2009 to 2013 of being in this forum, the only person I sometimes communicate with outside this forum is another Estonian member, Talvi. What are you talking about? You have lost touch with reality.


Who are you to dictate to me who to ban or not? It's not your decision.

And again Karl - if you couldn't get the humour in my thread, then there is something unsavoury to you.

I have never dictated anything, stop making things up.

Oh and the humour in your thread is as good as asking the Jewish descendants of German concentration camp survivors if Israel should join the 4th Reich (if there ever was one).


Yes well despite Karl's long membership on this forum, I am really thinking of terminating it. It's not worth having him around, he's a negative influence.

Intelligent non-troll individual saying that trolling (on a forum where it is common practice) can have bad consequences and shouldn't be encouraged = bad influence


You have my full support. Just throw him out, please. I am not sure about you, boss, but I have seen enough. More than enough.

Besides sucking someone's cock over the internet, do you do anything else with your life?


I'm on the verge of doing that, he's lost my sympathy - despite being a cute blonde innocent-faced Estonian. Behind that mask he's quite nasty and intellectually dishonest.

I'm definitely not nasty and intellectually dishonest. I lost your sympathy? It's good to know that I ever had it. Don't be so manipulative.


Another snake that we have held to our chest. I am personally disappointed in him as I thought he was wiser than that.

You should get in touch with reality and spend more time outdoors.

[Loki]

Karl cracks me up, I would never ban him. Priceless entertainment value :rotfl:

[The Lawspeaker]

---
Karl. You're no longer welcome here. I think you are the one that has lost touch with reality. Spend some time on your study, travel a bit (like I have done over the last year) and be able to make friends with people instead of being a mean-spirited prick. It might do you some good.. but kindly learn those lessons somewhere else. Not here.

[Äike]

And this is why we should strike down on any of the other bastards that would try to pull this stunt again.


Karl: for as I am concerned.. your days are numbered. You dirty little traitor. And then to think that you would be wiser than this.

What are you talking about?

[The Lawspeaker]

What are you talking about?
Probably you are incapable of thinking: I would you would be a good and loyal member. That is capable of thinking for himself and instead of letting himself be used by a bunch of twats that like to smear other peoples names by abusing Inese's death. Evidently you aren't.

[Äike]

Probably you are incapable of thinking: I would you would be a good and loyal member.

I'm just an average guy who sometimes posts some informative threads and chats with some other posters.

If by "good and loyal member" you mean "sucking Loki's cock and calling him "boss"" then I'm not one.


That is capable of thinking for himself and instead of letting himself be used by a bunch of twats that like to smear other peoples names by abusing Inese's death. Evidently you aren't.

What/who are "a bunch of twats"? And who are/is using me?

[The Lawspeaker]

I'm just an average guy who sometimes posts some informative threads and chats with some other posters.

If by "good and loyal member" you mean "sucking Loki's cock and calling him "boss"" then I'm not one.
I haven't seen you posting anything informative for a long, long, long time, Karl.




What/who are "a bunch of twats"? And who are/is using me?
The same people that were banned for this forum for spreading lies about Inese.

[Äike]

I haven't seen you posting anything informative for a long, long, long time, Karl.

1. http://www.theapricity.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?116-Eesti

2. I have a life, contrary to some individuals.


The same people that were banned for this forum for spreading lies about Inese.

I communicate with banned (I don't even know who) TA members as much as I do with non-banned ones, that means not at all.

You're still puzzling me. Are you high or just trolling me.

[The Lawspeaker]

1. http://www.theapricity.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?116-Eesti

2. I have a life, contrary to some individuals.



I communicate with banned (I don't even know who) TA members as much as I do with non-banned ones, that means not at all.

You're still puzzling me. Are you high or just trolling me.

Neither of them so don't try to be smart. I haven't seen you posting anything of any value, Karl, for a long time. And the thing is: you have contacts with them so you can go here for them and smear other people. That's why you're here. Not to posting interesting stuff. And you know that as well as I do.

[Linet]

I'm just an average guy who sometimes posts some informative threads and chats with some other posters.

If by "good and loyal member" you mean "sucking Loki's cock and calling him "boss"" then I'm not one.

What/who are "a bunch of twats"? And who are/is using me?

Whats wrong with the boss? :eusa_eh: ...want me to beat you up? :icon_mad:

[Äike]

Neither of them so don't try to be smart. I haven't seen you posting anything of any value, Karl, for a long time. And the thing is: you have contacts with them so you can go here for them and smear other people. That's why you're here. Not to posting interesting stuff. And you know that as well as I do.

what contacts with who? wtf are you talking about? I came to this thread to express my (negative) opinion about trolling, while you try to put me into some random conspiracy theories that I have no idea about. Stop pissing me off.

[The Lawspeaker]

what contacts with who? wtf are you talking about? I came to this thread to express my (negative) opinion about trolling, while you try to put me into some random conspiracy theories that I have no idea about. Stop pissing me off.
Why would you need to get pissed off if you came spouting the same bullshit as your buddies did before they got banned for it ? Because you're found out, is that it ?

[Dombra]

This thread has too much hate :( Karl , isnt your local time 2 am? Go to bed and think about what you write or stfu

[Äike]

Whats wrong with the boss? :eusa_eh: ...want me to beat you up? :icon_mad:

Yes, we should definitely meet someday :Bondage1:

[Linet]

Yes, we should definitely meet someday :Bondage1:

I suppose you are aware :chin: you will be the whipped one, yes? :eyes

[Äike]

Why would you need to get pissed off if you came spouting the same bullshit as your buddies did before they got banned for it ? Because you're found out, is that it ?

What buddies? What bullshit? My posts were about the downsides of trolling with all aspects brought out. Stop putting me into your fairy tales. Give me information not vague schizophrenic information. I'm asking you for the 8th time, what are you talking about?


This thread has too much hate :( Karl , isnt your local time 2 am? Go to bed and think about what you write or stfu

Trolling creates hate and I always think what I write, contrary to schizophrenic Lawspeaker. I have been here since 2009 and seen this forum develop, thus don't tell me to stfu, bögjävel.

[Äike]

I suppose you are aware :chin: you will be the whipped one, yes? :eyes

If that's what you wish. :wink

[The Lawspeaker]

-----.
You know that you're lying, Karl. The first post was a direct assault on this forum. Blaming us in general for Inese's death. So any more insults might get you a holiday.

[Linet]

If that's what you wish. :wink

My other wish is to relax :angel ....no need for anyone to be angry here, no need for tention for no reason :angry:

[Dombra]

What buddies? What bullshit? My posts were about the downsides of trolling with all aspects brought out. Stop putting me into your fairy tales. Give me information not vague schizophrenic information. I'm asking you for the 8th time, what are you talking about?



Trolling creates hate and I always think what I write, contrary to schizophrenic Lawspeaker. I have been here since 2009 and seen this forum develop, thus don't tell me to stfu, bögjävel.

Idiots have been with mankind forever and they are still not wanted, jobimokk

[Kale]

"Harassment laws"!?!? Wtf is this?

Please somebody justify these, and provide me with one instance that somebody can harass you without breaking another law (i.e. assault, trespassing, vandalism) before my quantitative faith in humanity dips into the negatives.