Morality and its place in our society?

[evon]

This is a big issue for me, and i dont have a clear opinion on it, but from what i can tell from experience it is best if morality is restricted passively to the personal sphere, the reason i think its best to limit it thus, is because from historical experiences it seems when you extend morality to the wider society, it tends to become corrupted and to fall into pits of stagnant orthodoxy.
Looking at the experiments with Confucianism and state systems in Imperial china, it seems clear to me that the fault of those Confucians was to be a bit naive, and to think that morality could curb corruption alone, which seems to me was clearly proven wrong, although it did show that aspects of Confucianism works well in larger inter-personal relations...

My own morality is a mix of Neo-Confucianism and European Humanism..

so, whats your take on this, where does Morality fit and why? also which kind of morality do you adhere to, or see as your own..?

[Neon Knight]

Good is what makes me happy; bad is what makes me unhappy.

The social good is a compromise between all of us (within nations) achieved through strong democracy. By this I mean informed, direct democracy.

[The Lawspeaker]

Without order and a common morality society would degrade into lawlessness and anarchy.

[1stLightHorse]

My morality stems from Semitic monotheism, although i am not theistic personally. I have studied the abrahamic scriptures for enjoyment and i still do even to this day, i have memorized parts of them in hebrew and arabic.
What i have taken from these scriptures is a common theme that no matter what level of intellectual or technological advancement occurs among human socities, there is still a base 'fitrah' meaning a "natural disposition" of human beings which is best managedby the laws of God.

I feel in practice, it allows one to stay grounded amidst ego inflation, as well as meaning that excellence in any field can and should be achieved in the physical world. However, not at the expense of spiritual integrity. The one that sells themselves for the sake of advancement and material gain is only hurting themselves in the long run (in this life).

It also recognizes the important role of conflict, and encourages it. I admire that.

[arcticwolf]

Yo Evon, here you go this is a good thread on morality though pretty old, by a native of Norway the great Hev, wish he was still here, very smart dude, enjoy http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?34042-What-is-morality-Is-it-absolute&highlight=Morality

[evon]

Good is what makes me happy; bad is what makes me unhappy.

The social good is a compromise between all of us (within nations) achieved through strong democracy. By this I mean informed, direct democracy.

So basically hedonism on a personal level and inter-personal compromise based on the majority rule on a society level?


Without order and a common morality society would degrade into lawlessness and anarchy.

So you want Morality to play a role in Society, enforced by laws?


My morality stems from Semitic monotheism, although i am not theistic personally. I have studied the abrahamic scriptures for enjoyment and i still do even to this day, i have memorized parts of them in hebrew and arabic.
What i have taken from these scriptures is a common theme that no matter what level of intellectual or technological advancement occurs among human socities, there is still a base 'fitrah' meaning a "natural disposition" of human beings which is best managedby the laws of God.

I feel in practice, it allows one to stay grounded amidst ego inflation, as well as meaning that excellence in any field can and should be achieved in the physical world. However, not at the expense of spiritual integrity. The one that sells themselves for the sake of advancement and material gain is only hurting themselves in the long run (in this life).

It also recognizes the important role of conflict, and encourages it. I admire that.

So you believe in the idea of "original sin", basically that humans are naturally bad and selfish, and that they therefore must be controlled by an morality?

If you are into Ego leveling ideas, i would check out Sufism and Buddhism, both focus allot on this issue, Sufism have allot of great "stories" to illustrate these ideas, one of my favorite is this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Conference_of_the_Birds



Yo Evon, here you go this is a good thread on morality though pretty old, by a native of Norway the great Hev, wish he was still here, very smart dude, enjoy http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?34042-What-is-morality-Is-it-absolute&highlight=Morality

Was going to merge them, but i see the theme is slightly different and its pretty much a dead thread...

[The Lawspeaker]

So basically hedonism on a personal level and inter-personal compromise based on the majority rule on a society level?



So you want Morality to play a role in Society, enforced by laws?


Yes and no. If parents would just raise their children like they did in the past and if school would make sure that children would get values instilled into them much of today's problems wouldn't exist.
The third line of defence against anarchy would be the state with it's laws, the police, the prison system and punishment.

[SkyBurn]

Without order and a common morality society would degrade into lawlessness and anarchy.

I agree. While nihilistic anarchy attracts certain people, it completely looks past practicality. Unfortunately, people cannot be trusted to act without unjustifiably infringing upon the freedom of others.
To me, morality is within the scope of Secular Humanism; a synthesis of Utilitarianism and personal freedoms.

[evon]

Yes and no. If parents would just raise their children like they did in the past and if school would make sure that children would get values instilled into them much of today's problems wouldn't exist.
The third line of defence against anarchy would be the state with it's laws, the police, the prison system and punishment.

So which morality are you referring to here, Dutch christian values rooted in protestantism?

[The Lawspeaker]

So which morality are you referring to here, Dutch christian values rooted in protestantism?
Yes, those. The same good old values that we have had for centuries.

[Neon Knight]

So basically hedonism on a personal level and inter-personal compromise based on the majority rule on a society level?
That's a good description but I would not use the word hedonism; the things that make me happy might include helping others.

[1stLightHorse]

So you believe in the idea of "original sin", basically that humans are naturally bad and selfish, and that they therefore must be controlled by an morality?

If you are into Ego leveling ideas, i would check out Sufism and Buddhism, both focus allot on this issue, Sufism have allot of great "stories" to illustrate these ideas, one of my favorite is this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Conference_of_the_Birds

Yes, although i would say something more along the lines of...naturally impulsive or uncontrollable. I tend to view myself in the opposite way though. I like to control everything about myself, especially my desires and refrain from making emotionally based judgements or conclusions.

I was reading some about Buddhism the other day actually, what is the difference between the various sects?

[evon]

Yes, those. The same good old values that we have had for centuries.

I think this is a illusion, but ofcourse if you uphold it for yourself it does not stay an illusion, the reason i say illusion is because the idea of a hegemonic culture/morality based on a form of shapeless protestantism is to me only found in bad history books.


That's a good description but I would not use the word hedonism; the things that make me happy might include helping others.

Do you extend this to Sadists, who enjoy hurting others?


Yes, although i would say something more along the lines of...naturally impulsive or uncontrollable. I tend to view myself in the opposite way though. I like to control everything about myself, especially my desires and refrain from making emotionally based judgements or conclusions.

I was reading some about Buddhism the other day actually, what is the difference between the various sects?

There are countless Buddhist branches, i find Chan/Zen Buddhism interesting, but also earlier branches from South Asia...

[el22]

I created a thread about this sometime ago (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?58634-Moral-a-dangerous-word-amp-concept)

[mr. logan]

There is only one power structure. There is only one reality.

[evon]

There is only one power structure. There is only one reality.

Care to elaborate on this vague statement?