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View Full Version : Brothers in arms, I beseech thee.



Beorn
09-03-2009, 08:07 PM
An interesting scenario crossed my mind today, I was browsing tehnetz and was amazed to find the amazing fact that it is believed that in England there is over 30 million English people with a Y-chromosome thats origins come from Denmark (or there abouts, we're all Germanic really), or, 50% of English people can claim to have potential Danish ancestry.

Now, this got me thinking. If England suddenly turned into an absolute nightmare...say like the once great nation of South Africa, and the English people were en-masse moving out of England, would you Danish people have arms stretched wide open to greet these 30 million English people to settle into your lands?, or would you reject them and cite reasonable grounds that were full and really the English people aren't that Danish. Not like you who was born and raised inDenmark?

Anyway, just a query. Interested to hear from the Danish on this forum.

Lutiferre
09-03-2009, 09:27 PM
An interesting scenario crossed my mind today, I was browsing tehnetz and was amazed to find the amazing fact that it is believed that in England there is over 30 million English people with a Y-chromosome thats origins come from Denmark (or there abouts, we're all Germanic really), or, 50% of English people can claim to have potential Danish ancestry.
Though the actual genetics which came from the original bearers of that Y-chromosome are -now after thousands years of breeding- mixed up across maternal and paternal lineages, and therefore, one with a "Danish" Y-chromosome could have 80% of his ancestry outside of Denmark in spite of his Y-chromosome. You can't measure the make-up of an individuals whole actual ancestry this way.

Now, this got me thinking. If England suddenly turned into an absolute nightmare...say like the once great nation of South Africa, and the English people were en-masse moving out of England, would you Danish people have arms stretched wide open to greet these 30 million English people to settle into your lands?,.
No. Absolutely not. Accepting people just because they have a Y-chromosome (which as I have shown, is not actually a valid and holistic determinant for ancestry) which came from your country is just ridiculous.


or would you reject them and cite reasonable grounds that were full and really the English people aren't that Danish. Not like you who was born and raised inDenmark?
Well, they aren't Danish. Just like Swedes aren't Danish.

They might historically have had a lot in common with Danes. I don't know the English that well.

But, I would have nothing against welcoming some English immigrants on altruistic grounds. Just not because of their genetic make-up.

Liffrea
09-03-2009, 09:31 PM
Hell Wat our Anglian ancestors didn't move here just to go all the way back again, Denmark looks kind of flat to me, no hills, I don't think I would like it there.

Ever west and on, that's the Anglo-Saxon destiny.:p

Beorn
09-03-2009, 09:32 PM
Thank you for the response. :)


But, I would have nothing against welcoming some English immigrants on altruistic grounds. Just not because of their genetic make-up.

Onus upon the word 'some'. Good. I thought I was going mad in not wanting to accept an indiscriminate amount.

Lutiferre
09-03-2009, 09:40 PM
Thank you for the response. :)



Onus upon the word 'some'. Good. I thought I was going mad in not wanting to accept an indiscriminate amount.

30 million immigrants would end this country. Not to mention end those people since the infrastructure of our country is not fit for so many people.

Beorn
09-03-2009, 09:49 PM
Only a couple of tens of thousands would trumpet the beginning of the end.

Ulex
09-03-2009, 09:56 PM
In 1002 king Ethelred was trying to do some ethnical cleansing on the Danes in England. Apperantly he did not have much succes, even though he managed to kill the sister of Danish king Svend Forkbeard. Svend took a dreadful revenge in 1013, when he and his army crossed the Northsea to say hello to the English. But that's another story... You have been forgiven. :thumb001:

Ofcause you would all be welcomed, if your scenario will become real someday, but I am not sure, if there are many Danes left to greet you by then. We don't reproduce ourselves, which means that we will be eradicated in a few generations from now. The lack of hundreds of thousands of little new Danes per generation has great costs on a people of only 4 million inhabitants.

But who am I to talk? The Danish politicians would probably not give a damn, whether you have Danish genes or not. They are biofobic and thus they would choose swarties, if they ever had a chance.

Lutiferre
09-03-2009, 10:03 PM
Ofcause you would all be welcomed, if your scenario will become real someday,
30 million people? Even if you wanted to welcome them, it wouldn't be possible. There's no housing, food, jobs, etc, for those people. They would destroy the country and starve to death.


but I am not sure, if there are many Danes left to greet you by then. We don't reproduce ourselves, which means that we will be eradicated in a few generations from now. The lack of hundreds of thousands of little new Danes per generation has great costs on a people of only 4 million inhabitants.

But who am I to talk? The Danish politicians would probably not give a damn, whether you have Danish genes or not. They are biofobic and thus they would choose swarties, if they ever had a chance.
Both good points.

Ulex
09-03-2009, 10:19 PM
30 million people? Even if you wanted to welcome them, it wouldn't be possible.
I didn't take that quite literally. I suspected that Watt just wanted to know about the attitude towards our English cousins. ;)

Barreldriver
09-03-2009, 10:22 PM
What about those Anglo-Americans :D. My genetic matches are from England, Denmark, Netherlands, and such. Possibly a Frisian-Danish origin there. :P

Beorn
09-03-2009, 10:22 PM
Of cause you would all be welcomed, if your scenario will become real someday, but I am not sure, if there are many Danes left to greet you by then.

This is all a very imagined scenario so I think it believable enough to twist the set up some, Ulex, so let's say the Denmark we are discussing is not the Denmark you know it today with everything you despise about it regards to its immigrant population, etc...and we lowered the number of that 30 million Englishmen to the current level of non-whites currently living in Denmark, which I believe is 9.5% (roughly) of your population total.

So now the immigrant population in your country is Englishmen. Do you still agree to the mass migration?

Lutiferre
09-03-2009, 10:26 PM
What about those Anglo-Americans :D. My genetic matches are from England, Denmark, Netherlands, and such. Possibly a Frisian-Danish origin there. :P
Well, since you call yourself English, Scots, Ulster-Scots, Irish, German, Welsh, Dutch, Swedish, in my opinion, I don't think you have any "claim" to Danish citizenship.

This is all a very imagined scenario so I think it believable enough to twist the set up some, Ulex, so let's say the Denmark we are discussing is not the Denmark you know it today with everything you despise about it regards to its immigrant population, etc...and we lowered the number of that 30 million Englishmen to the current level of non-whites currently living in Denmark, which I believe is 9.5% (roughly) of your population total.

So now the immigrant population in your country is Englishmen. Do you still agree to the mass migration?
No, definitely not. Having a 9,5% population of one alien ethnic group is too much. I'd rather have 9,5% of extremely different ethnic groups that are completely isolated and even enemies of each other. Anything else becomes a minority which is going to exercise power and influence on society beyond what is healthy for guests.

Barreldriver
09-03-2009, 10:36 PM
Well, since you call yourself English, Scots, Ulster-Scots, Irish, German, Welsh, Dutch, Swedish, in my opinion, I don't think you have any "claim" to Danish citizenship.



You fail to differentiate between ancestry and heritage #1 (All those compose my ancestry, but English is the only one in my "heritage"), #2 English is the majority group, the other mentions are charitable outliers. Not significant statistics.

My Scots and Ulster Scots lines are of a North Germanic Stock, much like the Danes, as are my English, so with those three combined that's a significant Ingvaeone stock, then the Dutch, and such.

The exact percent of "Germanic" blood is 74.9% Germanic, most of that North Germanic via England, the Netherlands, and the Germanic Scots (who are largely of an Anglo-Danelaw-Frisian ancestral stock based on the DNA and territorial divides).

And I made the comment in all fun. For the sake of the original argument of English YDNA.

Lutiferre
09-03-2009, 10:40 PM
You fail to differentiate between ancestry and heritage #1 (All those compose my ancestry, but English is the only one in my "heritage"), #2 English is the majority group, the other mentions are charitable outliers. Not significant statistics.

My Scots and Ulster Scots lines are of a North Germanic Stock, much like the Danes, as are my English, so with those three combined that's a significant Ingvaeone stock, then the Dutch, and such.

The exact percent of "Germanic" blood is 74.9% Germanic, most of that North Germanic via England, the Netherlands, and the Germanic Scots (who are largely of an Anglo-Danelaw-Frisian ancestral stock based on the DNA and territorial divides).
Yet none of them are Danish. Since I won't even accept English based on "genetic" claims of remote ancestry, why should I accept that millions and millions of American mutts have a claim to Danish citizenship and nationality? They absolutely don't. Any acceptance of immigrants would be pure altruism and charity, and only if it either benefited society or if society could handle it and take the burden of it.


And I made the comment in all fun. For the sake of the original argument of English YDNA.
Still. This discussion is pretty relevant actually, to American claims of Europeanness.

Barreldriver
09-03-2009, 10:41 PM
Yet none of them are Danish. Since I won't even accept English based on "genetic" claims of remote ancestry, why should I accept that millions and millions of American mutts have a claim to Danish citizenship and nationality? They absolutely don't. Any acceptance of immigrants would be pure altruism and charity, and only if it either benefited society or if society could handle it and take the burden of it.

I will refer again to my closing statement:

And I made the comment in all fun. For the sake of the original argument of English YDNA.

Also, to deny the Ingvaeonic bond between the English, Scots, Danes, Frisians, and such is quite ignorant. As if they're so completely alien from the start.

Nearly 80% Germanic is hardly remote ancestry btw.

Barreldriver
09-03-2009, 10:42 PM
Still. This discussion is pretty relevant actually, to American claims of Europeanness.

That's right we're all powow's and niggers.

Lutiferre
09-03-2009, 10:47 PM
Also, to deny the Ingvaeonic bond between the English, Scots, Danes, Frisians, and such is quite ignorant. As if they're so completely alien from the start.
I don't deny any bonds. I just deny that they must equal citizenship or nationality since, in reality, they don't.

That's right we're all powow's and niggers.
There's not a dichotomy between being either a complete European or a negro/native american ;)

Barreldriver
09-03-2009, 10:50 PM
I don't deny any bonds. I just deny that they must equal citizenship or nationality since, in reality, they don't.

So if those cousins are displaced, and have no where to go they are not welcome? Those bonds should mean something in desperate measures.


There's no a dichotomy between being either a complete European or a negro/native american ;)

Well, the claim that Americans have no right to identify with Europeans in the past is largely centered around the ignorant claim that we Americans have significant non-European blood, so my statement is relevant.

And there is a dichotomy between European Americans and Americans of negro and Native American stock, that's where hyphenated ethnicity's come into play, and segregation.

Lutiferre
09-03-2009, 10:53 PM
So if those cousins are displaced, and have no where to go they are not welcome? Those bonds should mean something in desperate measures.
Yes, it should mean something according to what the bond actually means. So it would depend very much on the situation.


Well, the claim that Americans have no right to identify with Europeans in the past is largely centered around the ignorant claim that we Americans have significant non-European blood, so my statement is relevant.
Not necessarily. At least, it's not what I have built my view on.


And there is a dichotomy between European Americans and Americans of negro and Native American stock, that's where hyphenated ethnicity's come into play, and segregation.
I meant that theres not one between being either a "complete" European, OR being a complete negro/indian. There is much in between and also much that has nothing to do with ancestry.

Barreldriver
09-03-2009, 10:55 PM
I meant that theres not one between being either a "complete" European, OR being a complete negro/indian. There is much in between and also much that has nothing to do with ancestry.

That is very true. It largely comes down to the views of independent families, rather than a national outlook.

Smaland
09-04-2009, 01:08 AM
In such an event, I would welcome the English to America. Whites need to be on the same team and help each other.

Ulex
09-04-2009, 07:01 PM
So now the immigrant population in your country is Englishmen. Do you still agree to the mass migration?
But ofcourse I would. As I wrote above, our problem in Denmark is that we don't reproduce ourselves. As it is, your migration is needed. "Race mixing" is not the problem in Denmark at present, because only a very few Danes choose to breed with people of non-Danish ancestry. You would be surprised to see how intolerant we are in these matters.

To answer your question completely, I would like to quote Lutiferre, who had the guts to answer your question, which was adressed to me:


No, definitely not. Having a 9,5% population of one alien ethnic group is too much. I'd rather have 9,5% of extremely different ethnic groups that are completely isolated and even enemies of each other. Anything else becomes a minority which is going to exercise power and influence on society beyond what is healthy for guests.
I respect you for most of your posts, but this time you lost the track completely. You see, the "extremely different ethnic groups" are already achieving power at large. You can go to prison for saying something bad about them, and they can say, whatever they want about us. Now, this is power beyond reason, and this power conflicts totally with the doctrines of democracy and freedom of speech.

It seems that western democracies are eager to give an overwhelming amount of power to any of their minority groups, and in this case you will have to ask yourself which minority you prefer, and which minority group you believe can be trusted with power. Ofcause you would prefer an ethnic group closely related to you.

Ĉmeric
09-04-2009, 07:11 PM
An interesting scenario crossed my mind today, I was browsing tehnetz and was amazed to find the amazing fact that it is believed that in England there is over 30 million English people with a Y-chromosome thats origins come from Denmark (or there abouts, we're all Germanic really), or, 50% of English people can claim to have potential Danish ancestry. Only men have Y chromosomes So I guess the other 50% are female?:wink


Now, this got me thinking. If England suddenly turned into an absolute nightmare...say like the once great nation of South Africa, and the English people were en-masse moving out of England, would you Danish people have arms stretched wide open to greet these 30 million English people to settle into your lands?, or would you reject them and cite reasonable grounds that were full and really the English people aren't that Danish. Not like you who was born and raised inDenmark?

Anyway, just a query. Interested to hear from the Danish on this forum.

They can all come to America. We have room for them. All we ask is that you chase out the 50 million Latino squatters. But no half-caste Afro-Saxons or Anglo-Indians. And no Irish please, we have enough troubles with the likes of the Kennedys & Daleys.:coffee:

Beorn
09-04-2009, 07:12 PM
And no Irish please

Why not? They are your blood. They are your kin. They are in essence you.