Study-Sub-Saharan ancestry of the Italians

[Methusalem]

Abstract

According to archaeological records and historical documentation, Italy has been a melting point for populations of different geographical and ethnic matrices. Although Italy has been a favorite subject for numerous population genetic studies, genetic patterns have never been analyzed comprehensively, including uniparental and autosomal markers throughout the country.

Source:http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0050794#pone-0050794-g002


Autosomal ancestry in Italy


"...A panel of 52 AIMs was genotyped in 435 Italian individuals in order to estimate the proportion of ancestry from a three-way differentiation: sub-Saharan Africa, Europe and Asia. Structure analyses allowed us to infer membership proportions in population samples, and these proportions can be graphically displayed, as in Figure 2. This analysis indicated that Italians have a basal proportion of sub-Saharan ancestry that is higher (9.2%, on average) than other central or northern European populations (1.5%, on average). The amount of African ancestry in Italians is however more comparable to (but slightly higher than) the average in other Mediterranean countries (7.1%)."

Map showing the location of the samples analyzed in the present study and those collected from the literature.
Pie charts on the left display the distribution of mtDNA haplogroup frequencies, and those on the right the Y-chromosome haplogroup frequencies.

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0050794.g001&representation=PNG_M


Haplogroup frequencies of Ladins, Grecani Salentini and Lucera compared to the rest of the Italian populations analyzed in the present study.
doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0050794.g004

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0050794.g004&representation=PNG_M

[Smeagol]

This analysis indicated that Italians have a basal proportion of sub-Saharan ancestry that is higher (9.2%, on average) than other central or northern European populations (1.5%, on average). The amount of African ancestry in Italians is however more comparable to (but slightly higher than) the average in other Mediterranean countries (7.1%)."

I highly doubt that, and other studies contradict it.

Combined data from two large mtDNA studies provides an estimate of non-Caucasoid maternal ancestry in Italians. The first study sampled 411 Italians from all over the country and found five South Asian M and East Asian D sequences (1.2%) and eight sub-Saharan African L sequences (1.9%). The second study sampled 465 Sicilians and detected ten M sequences (2.2%) and three L sequences (0.65%). This makes a total of 3% non-white maternal admixture (1.3% Asian and 1.7% African), which is very low and typical for European populations, since Pliss et al. 2005, e.g., observed 1.8% Asian admixture in Poles and 1.2% African admixture in Germans.
(Plaza et al. 2003;
Romano et al. 2003)


Similar data from the Y-chromosome reveals Italians' even lower non-Caucasoid paternal admixture. Both studies obtained samples from all over the mainland and islands. No Asian DNA was detected anywhere, but a single sub-Saharan African E(xE3b) sequence was found in the first study's sample of 416 (0.2%), and six were observed in the second study's sample of 746 (0.8%). The total is therefore a minuscule 0.6%, which decreases to 0.4% if only Southern Italians are considered and 0% if only Sicilians are considered. Again, these are normal levels of admixture for European populations (e.g. Austrians were found to have 0.8% E(xE3b) by Brion et al. 2004).
(Semino et al. 2004;
Cruciani et al. 2004)


52 world populations, including three Italian samples, were typed for 993 autosomal polymorphisms and subjected to a clustering algorithm. In the resulting data (excerpted below), Orange, Blue and Pink represent Negroid, Caucasoid and Mongoloid clusters, respectively. Other colors denote Austro-Melanesian and Native American clusters (omitted). Notice that the Italian, Sardinian and Tuscan samples show the same near-total membership (>98%) in the Caucasoid cluster as the Basque, French and Scottish (Orcadian) samples.
(Rosenberg et al. 2005)

[Prince Carlo]

LOL this study is even more ludicrous than Moorjani et al.

[Loki]

Not true. By the way, you can't deduct autosomal percentages by looking at haplogroups alone.

[Anthropologique]

Not true. By the way, you can't deduct autosomal percentages by looking at haplogroups alone.

Yes. Actually haplogroups have very little significance. They can only provide clues on ancient migration patterns, and first ancestors. Autosomal DNA (full ancestry) is the biggest determinant of phenotype, followed by environmental assimilation and accommodation.

[Gaijin]

The Negroid ancestry of the Italians is a well known fact, that is often denied by the entities of this forum.
They also fail to provide any contradictory sources, that may aid their arguments.

Italians are indeed part Black, and this can be witnessed in their phenotype.

Saying "Not True", won't change the facts.
The study is Peer-Reviewed, which means it's true.

[Ianus]

The Negroid ancestry of the Italians is a well known fact, that is often denied by the entities of this forum.
They also fail to provide any contradictory sources, that may aid their arguments.

Italians are indeed part Black, and this can be witnessed in their phenotype.

Saying "Not True", won't change the facts.
The study is Peer-Reviewed, which means it's true.

Seems that 700 years of North African domination do this effects:lol:

[Peyrol]

The Negroid ancestry of the Italians is a well known fact, that is often denied by the entities of this forum.
They also fail to provide any contradictory sources, that may aid their arguments.

Italians are indeed part Black, and this can be witnessed in their phenotype.

Saying "Not True", won't change the facts.
The study is Peer-Reviewed, which means it's true.


Since your people aren't british like (since the ''atlantic facade'' is an anthrophora bullshits no way real), but almost identical to southern italians, you must be negro too.
Pictures of group of people:



http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8219/8385572983_de1367b811.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Luis_Figo_flickr_remix.jpg

http://www.portugaldailyview.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/young-people.jpg

http://rt.com/files/news/1e/35/60/00/portugal-main.si.jpg

http://www.abola.pt/img/fotos/portuguesesASF/sergioconceicao2.jpg

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/20548879/Moonspell.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/FadoInPorto01.JPG/800px-FadoInPorto01.JPG

http://www.marxist.com/images/stories/portugal/Oct_15_crowd-Bloco.jpg

http://www.bslzone.co.uk/files/6013/7565/1024/CLOSING_CEREMONY_PORTGUAL_TEAM_WAVING_TO_CROWD.jpg

http://tools.nlcn.com.au/admin/custom_images/gallery/2008/06/17/70181.jpg

http://www.thelisbonconnection.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/rossio-lisbon-people-are-fond-of-hats.jpg

http://s24.postimg.org/ek4wrwy7p/pedro_Lamy01.jpg

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/55446675/Deolinda.jpg

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2012-09/16/131852900_11n.jpg
http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20130302/hedstrom20130302185557953.jpg


how many english...

[Gaston]

DNA-wise, Italians and Iberians are way more mongoloid than negroid, that's what people tend to forget. They are also less mongoloid than Northern Europeans thus more caucasoid than most Europeans.

[Peyrol]

DNA-wise, Italians and Iberians are way more mongoloid than negroid, that's what people tend to forget. They are also less mongoloid than Northern Europeans thus more caucasoid than most Europeans.

''West asian'' component in Italy and Iberia isn't ''mongoloid'', is middle eastern (mostly neolithic or jew-phoenician).

[Gaijin]

Since your people aren't british like (since the ''atlantic facade'' is an anthrophora bullshits no way real), but almost identical to southern italians, you must be negro too.

You mean Identical to North Italians.
North Italians closest relatives are the Iberians. Southern Italians closest relatives are the Jews.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8211/8437291103_e85c340368_k.jpg

You wish you were close to French, Austrians and Swiss.
But the Alpine Facade does not exist.

[Peyrol]

You mean Identical to North Italians.
North Italians closest relatives are the Iberians. Southern Italians closest relatives are the Jews.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8211/8437291103_e85c340368_k.jpg

You wish you were close to French, Austrians and Swiss.
But the Alpine Facade does not exist.

Infact no one (except some biased members as Lombardista or few others) have ever talked about this or about ''germanicness'' :lol:

And btw, what i've to do if my language is galloromance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piedmontese_language)? Shoot my head? lol...


''Swiss'' isn't an ethicity, btw

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland#Demographics

[Gaston]

''West asian'' component in Italy and Iberia isn't ''mongoloid'', is middle eastern (mostly neolithic or jew-phoenician).

West Asian and North European are East Eurasian-admixed (or more accurately "non-West Eurasian admixed"). The least admixed components are the Mediterranean and Southwest Asian (slightly African) ones.

[Peyrol]

West Asian and North European are East Eurasian-admixed (or more accurately "non-West Eurasian admixed"). The least admixed components are the Mediterranean and Southwest Asian (slightly African) ones.

Isn't ''med'' very close to ''West Asian'' (levantine)?

[The King, I am]

You mean Identical to North Italians.
North Italians closest relatives are the Iberians. Southern Italians closest relatives are the Jews.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8211/8437291103_e85c340368_k.jpg

You wish you were close to French, Austrians and Swiss.
But the Alpine Facade does not exist.

I think you mean the closest relatives of the Jews are Southern Italians and not the other way around

[Gaston]

Isn't ''med'' very close to ''West Asian'' (levantine)?

No, it's often closest to Southwest Asian. But since Africa is very diverse genetically (and Eurasia is rather monolithic in comparison), slight African admixture in Eurasians makes them sand out right away so sometimes, the Southwest Asian component is not the closest to the Mediterranean component.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Xal68HraeTs/UJBfD1d2CoI/AAAAAAAAAzU/yvTVW2WNvLQ/s1600/1_2.png

[Prince Carlo]

Can we please ban this retard? Is he going to resurrect every anti italian thread of this forum?

[Peyrol]

Btw:


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1Y6nfb7Ka8E/Uaz_N0WrLSI/AAAAAAAAI24/XYZxZo9yHUk/s1600/iberia.jpg


Italy has more southwest asian (neolithic farmers) admisture than ''african''.

[Prince Carlo]

BTW I think this study has been debunked zilions of times, but for some reason Mr 3-4% SSA admixture keep claiming it. Hmmm.....

[Anthropologique]

Seems that 700 years of North African domination do this effects:lol:

Not really. I don't agree with what has been said about Italians and SSA. However, the Muslim military occupation of Iberia had very little genetic impact. The SSA influences in Iberia are exceedingly old (Mesolithic and Neolithic) and, consequently, meaningless.

[Anthropologique]

Since your people aren't british like (since the ''atlantic facade'' is an anthrophora bullshits no way real), but almost identical to southern italians, you must be negro too.
Pictures of group of people:



http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8219/8385572983_de1367b811.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Luis_Figo_flickr_remix.jpg

http://www.portugaldailyview.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/young-people.jpg

http://rt.com/files/news/1e/35/60/00/portugal-main.si.jpg

http://www.abola.pt/img/fotos/portuguesesASF/sergioconceicao2.jpg

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/20548879/Moonspell.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/FadoInPorto01.JPG/800px-FadoInPorto01.JPG

http://www.marxist.com/images/stories/portugal/Oct_15_crowd-Bloco.jpg

http://www.bslzone.co.uk/files/6013/7565/1024/CLOSING_CEREMONY_PORTGUAL_TEAM_WAVING_TO_CROWD.jpg

http://tools.nlcn.com.au/admin/custom_images/gallery/2008/06/17/70181.jpg

http://www.thelisbonconnection.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/rossio-lisbon-people-are-fond-of-hats.jpg

http://s24.postimg.org/ek4wrwy7p/pedro_Lamy01.jpg

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/55446675/Deolinda.jpg

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2012-09/16/131852900_11n.jpg
http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20130302/hedstrom20130302185557953.jpg


how many english...

Who says that Portuguese look like British generally? SOME do, but we are dealing equivalencies, NOT sameness.

And, yes, the existence of the Atlantic facade is unquestioned. Just look at all the research (much of it recent) that's been done on it.

For every picture of "darker" crowds, mixed with racially suspicious types, one can counter with this:

[dude]

Accept the fact that according to this forum, if you have Southern European ancestry, you are a swarthy negro.

[Anthropologique]

Accept the fact that according to this forum, if you have Southern European ancestry, you are a swarthy negro.


Well, too many people on here are terribly insecure about themselves so they hang out in the rabbit hole denying obvious facts. AT is a field day for social psychologists and psychiatrists.

The Anthroscape forum, however, is much worse ...

[dude]

Well, too many people on here are terribly insecure about themselves so they hang out in the rabbit hole denying obvious facts. AT is a field day for social psychologists and psychiatrists.

The Anthroscape forum, however, is much worse ...

Yeah, so what's wrong with being negro anyways? It's not like there is a Nazi anti negro that if you have a drop of negro you will starve to death in a concentration camp.

[Gaijin]

Infact no one (except some biased members as Lombardista or few others) have ever talked about this or about ''germanicness'' :lol:



Should I mirror your post?

Since your people aren't French like (since the ''alpine facade'' is an anthrophora bullshits no way real), but almost identical to southern italians, you must be negro too.
Pictures of group of people:

Group Photos of Italians
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/7/1/1341165107338/Italian-fans-are-pictured-002.jpg
http://www.europeword.com/images/italy/italian-people3.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7360/8723489660_2d0a326c58_o.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7304/8723489786_88693bcb4b_o.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7451/8722370015_70fb6da741_o.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7330/8722370039_6aec322af6_o.jpg
http://totallycoolpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01072012_euro2012_final_spain_italy/euro2012Final_040.jpg
http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Photo/competitions/Fans/01/83/61/60/1836160_w2.jpg
http://www.canada.com/sports/soccer/cms/binary/6801703.jpg?size=620x400s
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01657/italy_epa_1657734b.jpg
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01646/italy-protest_1646952c.jpg

I should also throw in there some Italian celebrities.
http://www.calcioweb.eu/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/tommasi-damiano2.jpg
http://www.versiliatoday.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/fabio-troiano10.jpg

And finally some crowds of North-Italians.
http://www.gingergeneration.it/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/proteste-scuola.jpg
http://www.studenti.it/pictures/20130301/studenti-manifestazione-milano-1-marzo-1.jpeg
http://tg24.sky.it/static/contentimages/original/sezioni/tg24/cronaca/2009/11/17/manifestazione_studenti_torino_manifestazione_gelm ini3.jpg

[Sikeliot]

Since your people aren't british like (since the ''atlantic facade'' is an anthrophora bullshits no way real), but almost identical to southern italians,

Those photos might be mostly dark people, but their facial features don't look southern Italian.

[Black Wolf]

There really is not much SSA ancestry among Italians even far Southern Italians such as Calbrese and Sicilians. If there is any it is very minimal.

[Anthropologique]

Those photos might be mostly dark people, but their facial features don't look southern Italian.

Antro forums are very much comprised of racially insecure people in terrible denial. Just look at the irrational behavior concerning the Candille et al. (2012) and Jablonski (2006) results. The day the Harvard Med / U Michigan figures are posted is the day when the loons remain in their rabbit holes permanently. Oh, don't worry, some will come out and yell "conspiracy" from the roof tops. :picard2:

[Sikeliot]

This look is average for Portuguese and I would never mistake her for a southern Italian.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8219/8385572983_de1367b811.jpg

[Black Wolf]

Antro forums are very much comprised of racially insecure people in terrible denial. Just look at the irrational behavior concerning the Candille et al. (2012) and Jablonski (2006) results. The day the Harvard Med / U Michigan figures are posted is the day when the loons remain in their rabbit holes permanently. Oh, don't worry, some will come out and yell "conspiracy" from the roof tops. :picard2:

Very true and also pretty sad.

[Anthropologique]

Very true and also pretty sad.

I have a ton of research material on these sicko forums. For every reasonable person like you, there are ~ 20 loons to be found. Know nothings who just make up stuff. LMAO!!

[Cristiano viejo]

OP Dr. Nigga (the only one Black doctor who I know is the Michael Jackson doctor... and all of us know how finished those story :lol:) is like crazy by relate European populations (in this case Italy) with its Black descent. It´s his agenda.

Come on, Nigga, give me your thumbs down :thumb001:

Stop Portuguese-Italian war, please.

[Anthropologique]

This look is average for Portuguese and I would never mistake her for a southern Italian.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8219/8385572983_de1367b811.jpg

Western as the hills. Don't worry the cherry pickers will come up with mixed race examples, as usual. LMAO!!

[Sikeliot]

Western as the hills. Don't worry the cherry pickers will come up with mixed race examples, as usual. LMAO!!

If she had blue eyes everyone would think she passed in the UK. :lol:

[Black Wolf]

I have a ton of research material on these sicko forums. For every reasonable person like you, there are ~ 20 loons to be found. Know nothings who just make up stuff. LMAO!!

I know it's crazy lol! A lot of people truly believe their own bullshit. I still like it here though and find most of the stuff interesting. Even the loons are fun to read because they give me a good laugh in the end.

[Sikeliot]

People on here love to project their own insecurities onto others, too.

[Gaston]

lol I got a thumb down from Hevo (as usual) because he doesn't like the fact the Northern European cluster is less "caucasoid" than the Southwest Asian one. :cool:



I think people here are fighting over the wrong things: it should be who's the most mongoloid not the most negroid because the former is the main non-Caucasoid ancestry that all Europeans carry.

[Hevo]

lol I got a thumb down from Hevo (as usual) because he doesn't like the fact the Northern European cluster is less "caucasoid" than the Southwest Asian one. :cool:


Whatever floats your boat.:)

[Anthropologique]

Whatever floats your boat.:)

How's Alice Hevo? While you're at it, say hello to the Mad Queen. Isn't it about time you grew up?

Doggerland? Yeah, my ancients hail from Doggerland too (seriously). Doesn't exist anymore, does it? LOL!

[Anthropologique]

People on here love to project their own insecurities onto others, too.

Serious mental illnesses. My colleagues and I have already identified ~ one half dozen serious maladies. The most seriously ill are Cappelli, Nihilist and Frankenstein-Q.

[SilverKnight]

BTW I think this study has been debunked zilions of times, but for some reason Mr 3-4% SSA admixture keep claiming it. Hmmm.....


Embrace your blackness:laugh:


https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTMJx_4Hneb0dIpHsDNs_Iyh-H5Jy8NeFye2YIGEX8Ck8SeLPuH

[Black Wolf]

lol I got a thumb down from Hevo (as usual) because he doesn't like the fact the Northern European cluster is less "caucasoid" than the Southwest Asian one. :cool:



I think people here are fighting over the wrong things: it should be who's the most mongoloid not the most negroid because the former is the main non-Caucasoid ancestry that all Europeans carry.

That is correct actually.

[Hevo]

How's Alice Hevo? While you're at it, say hello to the Mad Queen. Isn't it about time you grew up?

Doggerland? Yeah, my ancients hail from Doggerland too (seriously). Doesn't exist anymore, does it? LOL!

Erm Alice? What are you talking about? Isn't about time you grow up with these weird and childrish insults of yours?

[Smaug]

The Negroid ancestry of the Italians is a well known fact, that is often denied by the entities of this forum.
They also fail to provide any contradictory sources, that may aid their arguments.

Italians are indeed part Black, and this can be witnessed in their phenotype.

Saying "Not True", won't change the facts.
The study is Peer-Reviewed, which means it's true.

As a Portuguese you should not make such a joke because your country is the one that suffers the most with trolls trying to place you amongst Mulattos.

[Methusalem]

thread seems to turn bat shit crazy

[SilverKnight]

thread seems to turn bat shit crazy


Italians should know this by now:


" When you go black, you ain't coming back" :laugh:

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Not true. By the way, you can't deduct autosomal percentages by looking at haplogroups alone.

For populations it's probably the best way to do it. Autosomals don't really mean much for population studies except in cases you are certain of their origin AND certain there's no selection on them. Which is usually not the case whatsoever.

For individual you are looking for ancestry so autosomals are needed for that, but highly conjectural. For countries it's the opposite. You already know the supposed ancestry, you just want to see how it relates to other populations on a broad basis. Autosomals for populations is like using microscope to look at the stars.

[Smaug]

Italians should know this by now:


" When you go black, you ain't coming back" :laugh:

:picard1:

[Anthropologique]

Southern Italians aren't black. So what, they have some Levantine, etc.

Quit with the fucking BS, already.

[Smaug]

Southern Italians aren't black. Sow what, they have some Levantine, etc.

Quit with the fucking BS, already.

And North Italians are very Central and Western European looking.

[Anthropologique]

Since your people aren't british like (since the ''atlantic facade'' is an anthrophora bullshits no way real), but almost identical to southern italians, you must be negro too.
Pictures of group of people:



http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8219/8385572983_de1367b811.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Luis_Figo_flickr_remix.jpg

http://www.portugaldailyview.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/young-people.jpg

http://rt.com/files/news/1e/35/60/00/portugal-main.si.jpg

http://www.abola.pt/img/fotos/portuguesesASF/sergioconceicao2.jpg

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/20548879/Moonspell.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/FadoInPorto01.JPG/800px-FadoInPorto01.JPG

http://www.marxist.com/images/stories/portugal/Oct_15_crowd-Bloco.jpg

http://www.bslzone.co.uk/files/6013/7565/1024/CLOSING_CEREMONY_PORTGUAL_TEAM_WAVING_TO_CROWD.jpg

http://tools.nlcn.com.au/admin/custom_images/gallery/2008/06/17/70181.jpg

http://www.thelisbonconnection.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/rossio-lisbon-people-are-fond-of-hats.jpg

http://s24.postimg.org/ek4wrwy7p/pedro_Lamy01.jpg

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/55446675/Deolinda.jpg

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2012-09/16/131852900_11n.jpg
http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20130302/hedstrom20130302185557953.jpg


how many english...

None of these people look like typial S. Italian, seriously. Also, there are some ME's in there who are probably reporters. LOL!

[Prince Carlo]

Ok little explaination for dummies.

!!!

This is a SPANISH study (financed and made by SPANIARDS!!!!) which uses 52 SNPs in the admixture analysis. Needless to say 23andme uses over a milion of SNPs. A MILION! OK? This is the 453289572390 time I say this.

Can we please close this thread?

[Anthropologique]

ALL Italians are Euro. Remember, NO ONE is 100% of anything, even Basques, Sardinians, Scandis ...

[Anthropologique]

@ CRAPelli, you are a mega sized ass-wipe and a jack-ass. The brain of an Untermensch.

[Smaug]

I believe we all agree that closing this thread is the best solution.

Verdict: Busted.

[Loki]

Reopened

[Methusalem]

Reopened

what is your opinion on this study? is it legit?

[Smeagol]

North Italian: West African: 0% palaeo African: 0% East African: 0%.
Portuguese: West African: 1.3% palaeo African: 0% East African: 1.6%.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArJDEoCgzRKedGR2ZWRoQ0VaWTc0dlV1cHh4ZUNJR UE&pli=1#gid=24

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Ok little explaination for dummies.

!!!

This is a SPANISH study (financed and made by SPANIARDS!!!!) which uses 52 SNPs in the admixture analysis. Needless to say 23andme uses over a milion of SNPs. A MILION! OK? This is the 453289572390 time I say this.

Can we please close this thread?

Um, there are Italians involved in this study, not just Spaniards.

Your post is also an ad hominiem (unlike 90% of posters I know what defines an ad hominiem). Also, the study doesn't deny SSA in other Med populations; in fact, the difference in SSA between Italians and other med pops in the this study isn't much. Taking all that into account your belief this is agenda driven doesn't carry much weight.

That being said, as everyone should be aware but you're all idiots, you don't look at one study but rather a number of studies to see if they back each other up. Peer review means it went through the process. It doesn't mean the conclusion is correct. It's like you're all a bunch of 18 year old college freshmen.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

what is your opinion on this study? is it legit?

With 52 AIMS (which you didn't put in bold) you should know the answer already. The SSA in southern Italians (forget about N. Italians) is far lower, which is pretty much what most studies show.

I like how you defer to your master, btw, but he already said it was bs.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Looks like, by haplotype which is the MOST valid way to look, at least 30% of south italy is invaders or slave remnants. I don't think that can translate easily to a SSA percentage, but best way to check that is actually the skin tone.

For rest of italy it doesn't look too bad, just some minor greek and jew admixture.

[Cristiano viejo]

North Italian: West African: 0% palaeo African: 0% East African: 0%.
Portuguese: West African: 1.3% palaeo African: 0% East African: 1.6%.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArJDEoCgzRKedGR2ZWRoQ0VaWTc0dlV1cHh4ZUNJR UE&pli=1#gid=24
First, the matter is with Italian, all of them, not only North Italians.
Second, I already said you once that table does not work properly.
According that table Yemenite Jews score 0% SSA, which it´s a joke

http://ziomania.com/yemen/images/yemeni122.jpg

[Smeagol]

First, the matter is with Italian, all of them, not only North Italians.

Sicilians even score less than 2% SSA in every study, ask Sikeliot.


Second, I already said you once that table does not work properly.
According that table Yemenite Jews score 0% SSA, which it´s a joke

http://ziomania.com/yemen/images/yemeni122.jpg

The Yemenite Jews score 4.8% East African. Most of them are Arabids though.

[Cristiano viejo]

Sicilians even score less than 2% SSA in every study, ask Sikeliot.
I don´t say that Sicilians, or rest of people of Italy are SSA blood, it´s not my agenda unlike OP Dr Nigga.


The Yemenite Jews score 4.8% East African. Most of them are Arabids though.
I did refer 0% West African and 0% Paleo African, which it´s a joke, I repeat.
But not only the Jemenite Jews example, there are more jokes in that table.
Somalians, Sudanese, Mozabites, Moroccans, score 0% Paleo African.
Lebanese score more West African than Sudanese. Great joke.

[Smeagol]

I don´t say that Sicilians, or rest de Ital

Sicilians score more ssa than any other Italians, but it's still less than 2%.


I did refer 0% West African and 0% Paleo African, which it´s a joke, I repeat.

Because they did not mix with slaves from West Africa like the Yemeni Muslims, mostly.


But not only the Jemenite Jews example, there are more jokes in that table.
Somalians, Sudanese, Mozabites, Moroccans, score 0% Paleo African.

Why should they?


Lebanese score more West African than Sudanese. Great joke.

This is because some West African slaves were imported in medieval times. Still, they are only about 1% West African.

[KidMulat]

Sicilians score more ssa than any other Italians, but it's still less than 2%.



Because they did not mix with slaves from West Africa like the Yemeni Muslims, mostly.



Why should they?



This is because some West African slaves were imported in medieval times. Still, they are only about 1% West African.

Yemeni didn't mix with west Africans though, it was mostly Horners specifically Habeshas.

[Smeagol]

Yemeni didn't mix with west Africans though, it was mostly Horners specifically Habeshas.

They did a little, but it's mostly the coastal Yemenis who have the West African.

[KidMulat]

They did a little, but it's mostly the coastal Yemenis who have the West African.

Most slaves in Ethiopia are Nilotic and even then Yemeni traders did not have access to them; in Oman and the Gulf States East Africans were utilized but even they are a mix of Cushitic, Bantu, and Nilotic populations and therefore one would think that would show up in them more but in fact that trade did not go to Yemen.

[Cristiano viejo]

Because they did not mix with slaves from [QUOTE=Smeagol;2166536]Why should they?
Why should Portuguese?
These people are Africans, unlike Portuguese. I found incredible that Portuguese score more West African than Somalies :lightbul:


This is because some West African slaves were imported in medieval times. Still, they are only about 1% West African.
Because they did not mix with slaves from West Africa like the Yemeni Muslims, mostly.

Sorry but that excuse is very weak. There have been traffic of slaves in all directions, North, South, East and West, and Roma was the most famous in this.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Looks like, by haplotype which is the MOST valid way to look, at least 30% of south italy is invaders or slave remnants. I don't think that can translate easily to a SSA percentage, but best way to check that is actually the skin tone.

For rest of italy it doesn't look too bad, just some minor greek and jew admixture.

Out of curiosity did you look at the study at all because what you think it says about haplogroups isn't what the study says. In fact, it says the opposite.

You're the biggest buffoon on this forum.

The title itself should have stopped you from speaking nonsense but we both know you're not keen on reading what is written:

"Uniparental Markers of Contemporary Italian Population Reveals Details on Its Pre-Roman Heritage"

Moron.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Looks like, by haplotype which is the MOST valid way to look, at least 30% of south italy is invaders or slave remnants. I don't think that can translate easily to a SSA percentage, but best way to check that is actually the skin tone.

For rest of italy it doesn't look too bad, just some minor greek and jew admixture.

For someone who talks about the horrors of low IQ people breeding you sure are deluded about your own abilities.


Italy shows patterns of molecular variation mirroring other European countries, although some heterogeneity exists based on different analysis and molecular markers. From North to South, Italy shows clinal patterns that were most likely modulated during Neolithic times.

Tell me what the above says, which is pretty much the standard belief. With an IQ of 145 you shouldn't have any trouble.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

For someone who talks about the horrors of low IQ people breeding you sure are deluded about your own abilities.



Tell me what the above says, which is pretty much the standard belief. With an IQ of 145 you shouldn't have any trouble.

It just shows what I already know, that you are a fucking moron. I don't care what their silly conclusions are, I am looking at the raw data. And only the haplogroup data because the aDNA data is pure bullshit for this kind of study in the first place.

i already said that in the very post you quoted. Like I said before, dumber every day.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

It just shows what I already know, that you are a fucking moron. I don't care what their silly conclusions are, I am looking at the raw data. And only the haplogroup data because the aDNA data is pure bullshit for this kind of study in the first place.

I forgot that the experts in their field mean nothing when Melonhead speaks. What you call 'raw data' is simply the frequency of the haplogroups. Your assumptions are based on frequency between regions. Never mind the autosomal tests allow us to know which populations are related to each other. Yes, I saw your "argument" that haplogroups are superior. I was going to comment but I said fuck it. Whether you know the origins of a population or not is irrelevant to knowing how closely they are related to other groups. That fact is better than assuming ALL people from population A were R1a at one time or, if we get classification silly, a population was mostly Alpine like you said about the Brits in some point of their history because you're mildly retarded.

aDNA is not pure bullshit. You just don't like the results. You don't even understand the process.




i already said that in the very post you quoted. Like I said before, dumber every day.

Yeah, I'm the dumb one for respecting the view of the experts instead of misunderstanding raw data because I want so terribly for it to fit some crazy ideas I have. Oh, wait... that's you. Aren't you the guy who once said "well, ALL the historians say this.." during an argument with someone? And mocked that person when they supposedly went against it (they didn't; you were just showing your reading disability again) When is an nexpert's view valid? Especially when it's most of them who say something is very likely? Only when they agree with you (or you think they do)?

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

It just shows what I already know, that you are a fucking moron. I don't care what their silly conclusions are, I am looking at the raw data. And only the haplogroup data because the aDNA data is pure bullshit for this kind of study in the first place.

i already said that in the very post you quoted. Like I said before, dumber every day.

Oh, you didn't get that specific in your post.



Looks like, by haplotype which is the MOST valid way to look, at least 30% of south italy is invaders or slave remnants. I don't think that can translate easily to a SSA percentage, but best way to check that is actually the skin tone.

For rest of italy it doesn't look too bad, just some minor greek and jew admixture.

30% slaves, I see. Which haplogroup is the slave one? Which represents greek or jew admixture?

Aren't you the same fool who said G is an Ancient Greek haplogroup or in other words that was the dominant daddy Y before they were swamped by all different types of people?

Please educate us all, wise Melonhead...

The skin tone was pure genius... So.... Indians have more SSA than Lebanese, am I right? Following your logic. Screw a dna test.. skin tone reveals all...

It's baffling to me that you exist in such a state of ignorance and stupidity. I refuse to believe it's possible.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Oh, you didn't get that specific in your post.

Let's see, I said that autosomal dna is useless for looking at populations when used in this way. I said that haplotypes are the best way to look.



30% slaves, I see. Which haplogroup is the slave one? Which represents greek or jew admixture?

Romans had r1b y-dna. G was there before romans, and etruscans were G. Which do you think belong to slaves and invaders? Take a guess. Look at the pie chart, too. Which ones are only in the south?

If you knew any history, you'd know there's no other possibility anyway. Funny how you desperately want to defend the whiteness of italy. Wog solidarity I guess.



Aren't you the same fool who said G is an Ancient Greek haplogroup or in other words that was the dominant daddy Y before they were swamped by all different types of people?

I never said that. I said many times they are too mixed up to know for sure. At one point the precursor to I and J and K was dominant there, for sure. That's where the most K is, and I looks like it radiates out of the balkans and J is obviously what happened to the more SE IJK that differentiated.




Please educate us all, wise Melonhead...

The skin tone was pure genius... So.... Indians have more SSA than Lebanese, am I right?

Well first off south asians get their skin tone the same place sub saharan africans do. What a shock. That's because features come from descent, they are not all randomly decided regardless of genetics.

The E clade and D clade split off from the same ancestors, bro. They are the darky section of humanity, E is bantu types, D is south asian source of darkness. Take a look at melanesians and negritos and tell me they don't fit in africa. But if you want to artificially separate them, we can still use our brains to determine there's not really any South Indians in Italy. So we don't have to worry about them...therefore it's all SSA.



Following your logic. Screw a dna test.. skin tone reveals all...

It's baffling to me that you exist in such a state of ignorance and stupidity. I refuse to believe it's possible.

Fuck you're stupid. Give it up. You are a worthless moron and I have huge IQ, two degrees in fields most people can't comprehend, and more shit you won't possibly believe if you don't even believe that. It's the same as a physical fight between you and me would be. You'd hit me and hurt your hand, then I'd smack you and you'd be permanently fucked up.

So you have two options.

First one you think I am lying/trolling in which case you are a fool to respond to me at all as that's what I want. Because my avatar is fraud, my picture, my skull measurements, every bit of if and it's all a goof.

Second one is I am telling the truth. In which case you should realize you are out of your league and be careful saying anything at all. You're not even in Dr. Funky's leagues (no offense to him), going after me is like a little girl going after Doc Savage, pounding her girly littles fists against his chest and crying.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I especially like the bias in here, though.

All these weird clades that aren't too european are perfectly normal in european countries and not from mixing! And not just because the country founding the study has the same mixtures!!! This is totally legitimate conclusion! They have same DNA clades as us but are 140% nigger while we are aryan master race!!!

[Sikeliot]

Italians have no SSA ancestry in any meaningful amount. Portuguese have more, but still not much if any.

Sicilians have like, 0.5% SSA which is likely residual and came with their North African component which is larger -- 3-5%.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Italians have no SSA ancestry in any meaningful amount. Portuguese have more, but still not much if any.

Sicilians have like, 0.5% SSA which is likely residual and came with their North African component which is larger -- 3-5%.

If invading muslims have 4% SSA then after they invade you have 2% SSA, how much of your DNA came from them?

You are not getting DNA direct from sub saharan africa, so you can't use this kind of yardstick to determine that.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Let's see, I said that autosomal dna is useless for looking at populations when used in this way. I said that haplotypes are the best way to look.

I think it's obvious I got that in my response considering I was mocking you for it.



Romans had r1b y-dna. G was there before romans, and etruscans were G. Which do you think belong to slaves and invaders? Take a guess. Look at the pie chart, too. Which ones are only in the south?

You're the first and only person to associate historical civilizations with haplogroups; you do realize that, right?


If you knew any history, you'd know there's no other possibility anyway. Funny how you desperately want to defend the whiteness of italy. Wog solidarity I guess.

Ah, history... or in this case pre-history... you mean like the Neolithic expansion, you dolt? You ever come across that in your wide reading of history?



I never said that. I said many times they are too mixed up to know for sure. At one point the precursor to I and J and K was dominant there, for sure. That's where the most K is, and I looks like it radiates out of the balkans and J is obviously what happened to the more SE IJK that differentiated.

You said G was associated with Ancient Greeks along with probably K.

The precursor of I, J, and K was dominant there? WTF have you been reading and how would that be relevant if it was accurate?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_IJ_%28Y-DNA%29





Well first off south asians get their skin tone the same place sub saharan africans do. What a shock.

Martians?

What a shock you're not familiar with DNA studies. Be more specific because you must understand I think you're and an idiot so you're liable to say just about any nonsense. I suspect you are dumb enough to think the two populations are closely related.


The E clade and D clade split off from the same ancestors, bro. They are the darky section of humanity. Take a look at melanesians and negritos and tell me they don't fit in africa. But if you want to artificially separate them, we can still use our brains to determine there's not really any South Indians in Italy.

Well, I got the answer to the above question quicker than I thought I would.




Fuck you're stupid. Give it up. You are a worthless moron and I have huge IQ, two degrees in fields most people can't comprehend, and more shit you won't believe.

Why not mention those degrees?

I'd like to believe your intelligence is mind blowing and you have more shit I wouldn't believe but I believe what I see, which is someone who couldn't even read a simple article and then tried to pretend that not only did you not not fuck up but you later pretend you tried to say something else; a fail, wasn't it? Because what you said later didn't match what you actually said in that thread. If your memory is a bit iffy you can click the link in my signature for a reminder.


It's the same as a physical fight between you and me would be. You'd hit me and hurt your hand, then I'd smack you and you'd be permanently fucked up.

It's more like I would shoot you, moron. No one mourns a plastic paddy; especially not a real Irishmen.


So you have two options.

First one you think I am lying/trolling in which case you are a fool to take respond to me at all as that's why I want. Because my avatar is fraud, my picture, my skull measurements, every bit of if and it's all a goof.

I have no reason to doubt all that other stuff except for your supposed IQ; it doesn't match your posting history.


Second one is I am telling the truth. In which case you should realize you are out of your league and be careful saying anything at all. You're not even in Dr. Funky's leagues (no offense to him), going after me is like a little girl going after dog savage, pounding her girly littles fists against his chest and crying.

I believe in evidence and the evidence suggests you are not only dumb as shit but a hypocrite and a little bitch who got so upset that I mocked him for his fake 145 IQ that he used Dr. Funky as a proxy for his butthurt and you should offend D. Funky as much as you can. He threw you under the bus. He agreed with me you're a joke and back peddled afterwards like a little bitch himself instead of manning up.

I don't need allies. If I think someone is shit, I tell them they are shit. No one gets a pass because they happen to dislike the same person.

[Sikeliot]

If invading muslims have 4% SSA then after they invade you have 2% SSA, how much of your DNA came from them?

You are not getting DNA direct from sub saharan africa, so you can't use this kind of yardstick to determine that.

Sicilians don't have 2% SSA.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

I especially like the bias in here, though.

All these weird clades that aren't too european are perfectly normal in european countries and not from mixing! And not just because the country founding the study has the same mixtures!!! This is totally legitimate conclusion! They have same DNA clades as us but are 140% nigger while we are aryan master race!!!

Sarcasm only works when you know the subject and what the other person believes, fool. Based on your attempt at sarcasm I realize you're not familiar with the Neolithic expansion.. you know.... farmers spreading into Europe from NE... or perhaps you don't know. But hey... fuck the academics and science. Melonhead has the answer with his poor understanding of modern science and history.

All you do is generalize because you don't know the subject. Too stupid to know better.

[MINARDOWICZ]

Sicilians don't have 2% SSA.

Not most... but I recall a few being posted with 2.4% even before... but most of the time it is 0-1% from what I have seen.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Sicilians don't have 2% SSA.

It's a hypothetical scenario to show the 'flaw' in your argument except your argument carries more weight than his response.

[Methusalem]

I believe in evidence and the evidence suggests you are not only dumb as shit but a hypocrite and a little bitch who got so upset that I mocked him for his fake 145 IQ that he used Dr. Funky as a proxy for his butthurt and you should offend D. Funky as much as you can. He threw you under the bus. He agreed with me you're a joke and back peddled afterwards like a little bitch himself instead of manning up.


hahahahahahh what a fucking liar. I gave you thumbs up out of pity. I never said that I agree with your post. LOL even in the rep i gave you, i insulted you. but yeah melonhead keep on busting our personal bitch. xD

[Dani Cutie]

don´t be jealous 6% negroid jajajajajaajaj

[Anthropologique]

don´t be jealous 6% negroid jajajajajaajaj

LMAO!! The guy who posted this has no friggin clue - thinks everyone has to look "English." He's irritated because the Atlantic facade is too real.

[Anthropologique]

Sicilians don't have 2% SSA.

Generally, no.

[Anthropologique]

don´t be jealous 6% negroid jajajajajaajaj

Even though he picked a weird combination of pics, more than a few would pass in the U.K; not that you must look "English" to be Atlantic facade. There was a reason this lunatic was banned. Sad, sad, sad.

[Loki]

LMAO!! The guy who posted this has no friggin clue - thinks everyone has to look "English." He's irritated because the Atlantic facade is too real.

:picard2:

[Dani Cutie]

Seems that 700 years of North African domination do this effects:lol:

Reconqusita*
White a lot of explusions also ;)

[RandoBloom]

Reconqusita*
White a lot of explusions also ;)

You totaly didnt have a tan change in those 800 years :laugh:
Just like you didnt mix with native Americans, philipinos, Africans etc..
Oh, I just remembered, you did mix with everyone you came in contact with

[Cristiano viejo]

You totaly didnt have a tan change in those 800 years :laugh:
Just like you didnt mix with native Americans, philipinos, Africans etc..
Oh, I just remembered, you did mix with everyone you came in contact with
After seeing the pic of your great great greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeat grandfather, I dont understand how you dare to talk about mix...