Geneva genocide memorial will be built

[Skomand]

despite Turkish intervenions:


http://www.nzz.ch/aktuell/schweiz/tuerkei-will-gedenkstaette-in-genf-verhindern-1.18077908

[Windischer]

well this is nice.

[Onur]

Turkish interventions? I call that as a waste of time.

Let them erect as many as fake monuments they want for something doesn't even exist. We all know that this is the bread&water of partly assimilated Armenian diaspora. Let them do it and mentally masturbate by the statues. And do we really care what Swiss people thinks about this issue? Nope!

Like they can ever prove their fake genocide in the international court of justice in Hague? Nope again, so i see no problems for my side.

[The Lawspeaker]

Let's be blunt here (I know you people like that): the Armenians pulled a Jew. They thought "if they can get away with milking the Holocaust.. so can we !".

[Musso]

Let's be blunt here (I know you people like that): the Armenians pulled a Jew. They thought "if they can get away with milking the Holocaust.. so can we !".

What's wrong with a Genocide memorial? Are you saying only Jews put Genocide memorials?

[The Lawspeaker]

What's wrong with a Genocide memorial? Are you saying only Jews put Genocide memorials?
Build it in Armenia. It has nothing to do with Europe. And this kind of memorials quickly turn into an industry.

[Musso]

Build it in Armenia. It has nothing to do with Europe. And this kind of memorials quickly turn into an industry.

Where-ever there's a sizeable Armenian community, they will want to build one to remember their ancestors, given also a good portion of the community is descendants of Genocide survivors. Azeris build a memorial to the 'khojaly massacre' every place there's a group of Azeris, and their proclaimed death toll of that is around 600 people:

In your country:

http://azerbaijanamericaalliance.org/uploads/files/Khojaly%20in%20the%20Hague.JPG

http://www.habermonitor.com/img/630x345/hocali-kurbanlari-lahey-deki-soykirim-aniti-o.jpg

[Windischer]

why not? if theres a community of armenians who are willing to finance a small memorial somewhere in a park, why not?

[The Lawspeaker]

why not? if theres a community of armenians who are willing to finance a small memorial somewhere in a park, why not?
Because they could also build it in their own country where it is actually relevant ? Building foreign monuments in another country is a sign of a take-over and in fact: very hostile and insulting.

[The Lawspeaker]

Where-ever there's a sizeable Armenian community, they will want to build one to remember their ancestors, given also a good portion of the community is descendants of Genocide survivors. Azeris build a memorial to the 'khojaly massacre' every place there's a group of Azeris, and their proclaimed death toll of that is around 600 people:

In your country:

http://azerbaijanamericaalliance.org/uploads/files/Khojaly%20in%20the%20Hague.JPG

http://www.habermonitor.com/img/630x345/hocali-kurbanlari-lahey-deki-soykirim-aniti-o.jpg
It should be removed. Build it on the embassy grounds (which is technically Armenian soil) or in your own country. It is akin to hoisting your flag over my soil and thus hostile. In fact: if I would see some Armenian or another foreigner hoisting his flag over my soil without a Dutch flag accompanying it (either hanging next to it or above it): I will tear it down and tear it up.

[Musso]

It should be removed. Build it on the embassy grounds (which is technically Armenian soil) or in your own country.

Should Azeris remove their memorial? Are you also saying that every other ethnic group that has a memorial in a foreign country should remove it? (that's a lot of memorials to remove...)

[The Lawspeaker]

Should Azeris remove their memorial? Are you also saying that every other ethnic group that has a memorial in a foreign country should remove it? (that's a lot of memorials to remove...)
They should remove it too. There should be monuments here that are relevant to this country and it's history. Not yours or the Azeri's. Build those in your own country where they belong.

[Musso]

They should remove it too. There should be monuments here that are relevant to this country and it's history. Not yours or the Azeri's. Build those in your own country where they belong.

Assyrians have a Genocide monument in Armenia, I have no problem with it. It's something for their community and it's normal for them to have it. But I guess, we have to agree to disagree here.

[The Lawspeaker]

Assyrians have a Genocide monument in Armenia, I have no problem with it. It's something for their community and it's normal for them to have it. But I guess, we have to agree to disagree here.
Indeed.. we have. And when it comes to flags: I expect of any foreigner that wishes to hoist his flag over my soil or build a monument on my soil that it should be accompanied by our flag: either next to it or above it and indeed if a monument should be built it should have your flag and mine next to each other so then it would make it more relevant. Symbolism is always very important and to build your monuments in my country without even having the decency of showing respect to my country by having two flags side by side but instead only talking what happened to your people is an insult.. in our own home. What happens in Armenia when you insult people in their own home ? One would get beaten into a pulp and one would deserve no less.

[Windischer]

who are you to decide whats their country and whats not? if they live switzerland and like it they may as well consider it to be their country.
its a plain stupid xenophobia from your side, lawspeaker.

edit: is the azerbaijani memorial built on your soil? are you the owner? if not, then its not your soil.

[The Lawspeaker]

who are you to decide whats their country and whats not? if they live switzerland and like it they may as well consider it to be their country.
its a plain stupid xenophobia from your side, lawspeaker.
Xenophobia my arse. They didn't ask the Dutch community if they could build a monument in my own country either. Then they disrespected us by not showing any reverence to their hosts. That's an insult inside our own home. Building a monument in a foreign country or hoisting your flag there without the consent of the locals is the same as occupying it.. . It's a symbol of STAKING YOUR CLAIM. I would go even further: it's, quite frankly, a casus belli.

[Musso]

Indeed.. we have. And when it comes to flags: I expect of any foreigner that wishes to hoist his flag over my soil that it should be accompanied by our flag: either next to it or above it and indeed if a monument should be built it should have your flag and mine next to each other so then it would make it more relevant. Symbolism is always very important and to build your monuments in my country without even having the decency of showing respect to my country by having two flags side by side but instead only talking what happened to your people is an insult.. in our own home. What happens in Armenia when you insult people in their own home ? One would get beaten into a pulp and one would deserve no less.

That makes sense. But out of defence, when Armenians hold rallies in other countries for example, we also hoist the host country's flags along with the Armenian flag. Most reasonable ethnic groups do that. Even at Armenian Churches, you have outside, the host nation's flag along with Armenian flag (sometimes host nation flag is even higher).

Armenians Rallying in Paris (I don't even see any Armenian flags):

http://static0.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/1000-1/photos/1327337689-armenians-rally-in-paris-for-antinegation-law-_1015421.jpg

Turkish Rally in Paris:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/images/news/201203/n_17343_4.jpg

[The Lawspeaker]

That makes sense. But out of defence, when Armenians hold rallies in other countries for example, we also hoist the host country's flags along with the Armenian flag. Most reasonable ethnic groups do that. Even at Armenian Churches, you have outside, the host nation's flag along with Armenian flag (sometimes host nation flag is even higher).

Armenians Rallying in Paris (I don't even see any Armenian flags):

http://static0.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/1000-1/photos/1327337689-armenians-rally-in-paris-for-antinegation-law-_1015421.jpg

Turkish Rally in Paris:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/images/news/201203/n_17343_4.jpg

I agree: such behaviour as shown by those Turks is absolutely disgusting. In fact, I think it's an abuse of our freedoms and that march should have been broken up by the riot police.

[The Lawspeaker]

edit: is the azerbaijani memorial built on your soil? are you the owner? if not, then its not your soil.
I am a native born citizen of my country and my ancestors lived here and thus it is Dutch soil. And I am Dutch and thus it is my soil and of the other Dutch. Not yours or any other.

[RussiaPrussia]

Build it in Armenia. It has nothing to do with Europe. And this kind of memorials quickly turn into an industry.

so true, where is memorial for 8 million Germans and 20 million Russians in Switzerland?

[The Lawspeaker]

so true, where is memorial for 8 million Germans and 20 million Russians in Switzerland?
True. It should be there too then. But it isn't. In fact: why haven't the Germans built a monument for their own victims yet ?

[Musso]

I agree: such behaviour as shown by those Turks is absolutely disgusting. In fact, I think it's an abuse of our freedoms and that march should be broken up by the riot police.

Check this out, Kurdish-Turkish fight in France. Watching the video you forget that you are in France, but in some neighbourhood of Turkey:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyhcJe3StTQ

[The Lawspeaker]

Check this out, Kurdish-Turkish fight in France. Watching the video you forget that you are in France, but in some neighbourhood of Turkey:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyhcJe3StTQ
Only when I browsed through the vid and saw the boulevards I realised that it was Paris. Those people should be deported: no questions asked.

[Windischer]

Xenophobia my arse. They didn't ask the Dutch community if they could build a monument in my own country either. Then they disrespected us by not showing any reverence to their hosts. That's an insult inside our own home. Building a monument in a foreign country or hoisting your flag there without the consent of the locals is the same as occupying it.. . It's a symbol of STAKING YOUR CLAIM. I would go even further: it's, quite frankly, a casus belli.

ROFL casus belli?! how can be xyz country responsible for actions of its citizens abroad. you can safely delete the "law" from your nickname.
such things are insult maybe for insecure xenophobic paranoids that see offense in a memorial or showing a foreign flag in a different country. for everybody else its a normal thing.

i guess i cant add anything else to that.

[The Lawspeaker]

ROFL casus belli?! how can be xyz country responsible for actions of its citizens abroad. you can safely delete the "law" from your nickname.
such things are insult maybe for insecure xenophobic paranoids that see offense in a memorial or showing a foreign flag in a different country. for everybody else its a normal thing.

i guess i cant add anything else to that.
How would you feel if foreigners would do this in your own country ?

[Windischer]

it wouldnt affect my feelings at all.

[The Lawspeaker]

it wouldnt affect my feelings at all.
Then you're a "man" (not even that) without honour or principles and I feel sorry for you.

[gregorius]

Then you're a "man" (not even that) without honour or principles and I feel sorry for you.

There are plenty of Dutch monument on non dutch ground, Like the banner of Hope in South Africa which is placed by the dutch people for a dutch resistance fighter WW2.

[Windischer]

honour and principles have nothing to do with a country. "love for a country" is weird after all. i may like the area where i live or where i was born but love? love for material things?

[The Lawspeaker]

There are plenty of Dutch monument on non dutch ground, Like the banner of Hope in South Africa.
True and also those should only exist with the consent of the locals and also there the same rules should be applied. I know, for one, that the Dutch war cemeteries in Indonesia are preserved by both the Dutch and Indonesian governments. The difference here is that the monument in South Africa has to do with Dutch in South Africa and the cemeteries with Dutch that died in Asia. Whereas the Armenian monuments here have..nothing to do with the Netherlands. So there is a difference.

[The Lawspeaker]

honour and principles have nothing to do with a country. "love for a country" is weird after all. i may like the area where i live or where i was born but love? love for material things?
That means that you're, quite frankly, a man without honour. So you would like to be ruled by foreigners, to watch your language and culture disappear and your landscapes altered in order to suit the needs of your new overlords.

[gregorius]

True and also those should only exist with the consent of the locals and also there the same rules should be applied. I know, for one, that the Dutch war cemeteries in Indonesia are preserved by both the Dutch and Indonesian governments.

So you think that the Banner of Hope should be removed in SU ?

[The Lawspeaker]

So you think that the Banner of Hope should be removed in SU ?
If the South Africans want it gone ? Yes. South Africa hasn't been Dutch since 1795.

[Geni]

There are 40 to 50 million deaths in World War II .., no monument :rolleyes:?

[gregorius]

There are 40 to 50 million deaths in World War II .., no monument :rolleyes:?

How do you mean there are alot of WW2 monuments

[xajapa]

How do you mean there are alot of WW2 monuments
You are correct gregor. A Google search reveals WW2 monuments in Germany, France, Poland and the US.
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=cpsugrccelt2&gs_rn=12&gs_ri=psy-ab&tok=uQPRGFVD9cN-tdkihvfx9Q&cp=13&gs_id=1g&xhr=t&q=WW2+monuments&es_nrs=true&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=WW2+monuments&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.46340616,d.dmQ&fp=96c5caaa8a1f5a76&biw=1821&bih=857

I am sure there are monuments in the UK, and I would imagine other European nations, Canada and Australia have them.