When Kings of Poland were of Lithuanian origins,on paternal side

[Dacul]

If today the relations between Poles and Lithuanians are not that great,not same was the situation in the past.
One of the most important ruling dynasties of Poland,Jaggelonian dynasty ,was of Lithuanian origins,on the paternal ancestors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagiellonian_dynasty
The dynasty started with Grand Duke of Lithuania Jogaila who married the Queen of Poland,Jadwiga,at the invitation of most Polish nobles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jogaila
When the queen Jadwiga died,Jogaila become the King of Poland being crowned as King of Polland under the name of Władysław II Jagiello.
Poland and Lithuania became one single state,than.
Together they could stop the aggression of dementia crusades of Teutonic Knights against Baltic people,with the very prestigious victory from Grunwald , against Teutonic Knights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grunwald
This Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth can be seen as a precurssor of modern European states. Anyway,it was still a state that had serfdom.

[Artek]

If today the relations between Poles and Lithuanians are not that great,not same was the situation in the past.
One of the most important ruling dynasties of Poland,Jaggelonian dynasty ,was of Lithuanian origins,on the paternal ancestors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagiellonian_dynasty
The dynasty started with Grand Duke of Lithuania Jogaila who married the Queen of Poland,Jadwiga,at the invitation of most Polish nobles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jogaila
When the queen Jadwiga died,Jogaila become the King of Poland being crowned as King of Polland under the name of Władysław II Jagiello.
Poland and Lithuania became one single state,than.
Not a single state but two countries bound with personal union. It looked like that until 1569, when the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Lublin Union of Lublin was signed and personal union replaced with real union. Even though we had some separate things like offices, judicature, finances and army.


Together they could stop the aggression of dementia crusades of Teutonic Knights against Baltic people,with the very prestigious victory from Grunwald , against Teutonic Knights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grunwald
It still took years to finally beat Teutonic Knights Order, we managed to do that because of their poor finances and Prussian opposition.

Anyway, the real union was made under the pressure to stop Moscow from gathering lands previously conquered by Lithuania.


This Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth can be seen as a precurssor of modern European states. Anyway,it was still a state that had serfdom.
So the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth can't be seen as a precurssor of modern European states. There are many better examples, like England, some Italian free cities, France...

[Dacul]

Still it had Sjem which was like a Parliament.
And it seems the situation of the serfs was not that bad how it was in other states.

[member]

What's with those Polish threads in Lithuanian section? They're nothing more but a place for XX/Mordid to troll around.

[Dacul]

How come this is Polish thread?
Is just a thread to show that was a strong union sometime between Poland and Lithuania,in the past.
Nothing to do with Mordid/XX threads.
I made here a thread to show that Poland had a dynasty that was having kings of Lithuanian origins,on paternal side and I see some Lithuanians are still unhappy.
Weird people.

[member]

It's pretty clear where such threads lead. Yeah, have fun.

EDIT: they're both (XX and M) banned? Whoa!! Many thanks for those who made this happen!!! Now, you can talk about Poland as much as you like :)

[Artek]

Still it had Sjem which was like a Parliament.
And it seems the situation of the serfs was not that bad how it was in other states.
Sejm was only for nobles and clergy of noble background. English Parliament was open to anyone, even peasantry, who had enough wealth to be egligible for the election.

France had http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estates_General_%28France%29 Estates General. Not so powerful as polish equivalent, because French kings did they best to strenghten their rule.
Sadly, polish kings were getting weaker and weaker, with less and less influences. It escalated into the factual rule of magnates (very wealthy and powerful nobles, often with vast possessions and private armies)

Situation of serfs was bad, peasants in private estates were often exploited. Nobody cared till the economical crisis came, when buying of polish grain stopped to be profitable. Polish rural economy, based mostly on outdated agricultural methods and serfdom was overcome by the Western agriculture, that used modern methods of cultivation and rent (the latter was beneficial to both feudal lords and peasants; since then peasant was interested in high yields and productivity).

Serfs from king's demesne were in better situation, though. But we must remember that they were in minority.

[Twistedmind]

Still it had Sjem which was like a Parliament.
And it seems the situation of the serfs was not that bad how it was in other states.

All Medieval states had some kind of Parliament. Hm concerning how hard serfdom was, lol, it was more or less same ewerywhere. Dacul, lol, what's this, you had history in school, this is among trivial things.

PS
Artetl, English parlaiment until 19 century was reserved for noble magnats, higher clergy, as members by position and elective places were reserved for gentry (members fro couunties) and rich citizens (members from boroughs). Some lesser nobles were buying rotten boroughs, dead towns who had 10 or even less voters, but had privileg of sending one or even two representatives to House of commons.

[member]

All Medieval states had some kind of Parliament. Hm concerning how hard serfdom was, lol, it was more or less same ewerywhere. Dacul, lol, what's this, you had history in school, this is among trivial things.

PS
Artetl, English parlaiment until 19 century was reserved for noble magnats, higher clergy, as members by position and elective places were reserved for gentry (members fro couunties) and rich citizens (members from boroughs). Some lesser nobles were buying rotten boroughs, dead towns who had 10 or even less voters, but had privileg of sending one or even two representatives to House of commons.

Commonwealth's case was exceptional.


In other respects as well, the distinctive features of Jagiellonian Poland ran against the historical trends of early modern Europe. Not the least of those features was its singular governmental structure and practice. In an era that favored the steady accumulation of power within the hands of European monarchs, Poland-Lithuania developed a markedly decentralized system dominated by a landed aristocracy that kept royal authority firmly in check. The Polish nobility, or szlachta, enjoyed the considerable benefits of landownership and control over the labor of the peasantry. The szlachta included 7 to 10 percent of the population, making it a very large noble class by European standards. The nobility manifested an impressive group solidarity in spite of great individual differences in wealth and standing. Over time, the gentry induced a series of royal concessions and guarantees that vested the noble parliament, or Sejm, with decisive control over most aspects of statecraft, including exclusive rights to the making of laws. The Sejm operated on the principle of unanimous consent, regarding each noble as irreducibly sovereign. In a further safeguard of minority rights, Polish usage sanctioned the right of a group of gentry to form a confederation, which in effect constituted an uprising aimed at redress of grievances. The nobility also possessed the crucial right to elect the monarch, although the Jagiellons were in practice a hereditary ruling house in all but the formal sense. The prestige of the Jagiellons and the certainty of their succession supplied an element of cohesion that tempered the disruptive forces built into the state system.

http://historymedren.about.com/library/text/bltxtpoland8.htm

[Twistedmind]

Commonwealth's case was exceptional.



http://historymedren.about.com/library/text/bltxtpoland8.htm

There were other countries with weak King, controled by strong nobility. Polish Lithuanian commonwelt was even considered Pepublic. (Rzeczpospolita). But yes, it has verry nuemrous noble class, and according to soem historians, Serfdom there was verry harsh compared to rest of Europe (ps I dont want to start flame war or anything, Polish and Lithuanian autors agree on it).

Anyway, when I was telling about Trivial things, it is simply the fact that Jagelonians were gediminid branch, also some other Polish kings and Lithuanian Grand Dukes were of Gedimind family. (Michał Korybut Wiśniowiecki)

[Minde]

whats this tread about?

[Dacul]

Is about educating fanatic Slavic speakers and pro-Slavic speakers (from this forum) to stop hating Lithuanians.

[Artek]

Is about educating fanatic Slavic speakers and pro-Slavic speakers (from this forum) to stop hating Lithuanians.
As for me, I don't need an education about the history and political regime. I don't hate Lithuanians either :)

Who do you want to educate and who do you consider a fanatic Slavic speaker?

[Dacul]

@Artek:
No idea,Twistedmind,Xx (who is sadly banned now) etc.
I noticed you are not fanatic,earlier.
It can be seen clearly that Twistedmind got upset,he said I am posting trivial well known things that were learned at history.
Hardly doubt in Serbia,Russia,Croatia,Bulgaria etc you are learning about Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth,at history.

[Artek]

@Artek:
No idea,Twistedmind,Xx (who is sadly banned now) etc.
I noticed you are not fanatic,earlier.
It can be seen clearly that Twistedmind got upset,he said I am posting trivial well known things that were learned at history.
Hardly doubt in Serbia,Russia,Croatia,Bulgaria etc you are learning about Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth,at history.
Even though, Twistedmind was right in his last post.

[Twistedmind]

@Artek:
No idea,Twistedmind,Xx (who is sadly banned now) etc.
I noticed you are not fanatic,earlier.
It can be seen clearly that Twistedmind got upset,he said I am posting trivial well known things that were learned at history.
Hardly doubt in Serbia,Russia,Croatia,Bulgaria etc you are learning about Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth,at history.
Lol, last time I checke we did have lessons, two in sixth class, two in seventh, two in second year of Gimnasium and two in third. (I am speaking about Serbia and Bosnia, I also happen to know, Russian, Belarusian and Ukrainian history curiculums have lessons about Polish history, same as about every European country)

[Minde]

they can hate, slavs are not the most liked people in lithuania aswel so its logic to do so

[Dacul]

One of the most nasty serfdooms were in Russia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom_in_Russia

[Dacul]

Lol, last time I checke we did have lessons, two in sixth class, two in seventh, two in second year of Gimnasium and two in third. (I am speaking about Serbia and Bosnia, I also happen to know, Russian, Belarusian and Ukrainian history curiculums have lessons about Polish history, same as about every European country)

Well if you knew that,how come no one posted this till now?
Either you do not like that Poland had kings of Lithuanian ancestry,either you did not knew it because you were not remembering about this from History lessons.
I was not talking about Polish history,but about learning considering the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth.

[sevruk]

what the trolling Poles lately?

[Twistedmind]

Well if you knew that,how come no one posted this till now?
Either you do not like that Poland had kings of Lithuanian ancestry,either you did not knew it because you were not remembering about this from History lessons.
I was not talking about Polish history,but about learning considering the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth.

Look, Romanul, I would continue this verry interesting and verry importnan discussion with you, after all I have master degree from History, :D but I have more importnant things to do like washing my dog. Enjoy broadening horizonts of my Slavic brothers :D

[Dacul]

This thread is opened on Lietuva / Lithuania section,not on Poland section and is not any kind of trolling.
Is just history.

[Minde]

but baltic languages are brothers of slavic languages as i think they come from one long time ago

[Dacul]

Look, Romanul, I would continue this verry interesting and verry importnan discussion with you, after all I have master degree from History, :D but I have more importnant things to do like washing my dog. Enjoy broadening horizonts of my Slavic brothers :D


I do not have with whom to talk about this subject,it seems.

[Minde]

I do not have with whom to talk about this subject,it seems.
talk me i interested

[Mans not hot]

It's pretty clear where such threads lead. Yeah, have fun.

EDIT: they're both (XX and M) banned? Whoa!! Many thanks for those who made this happen!!! Now, you can talk about Poland as much as you like :)
A lot of people ask me
Where the fuck I've been at the last few days
Shit, I don't know
But I do know XX is back now, haha

[Twistedmind]

A lot of people ask me
Where the fuck I've been at the last few days
Shit, I don't know
But I do know XX is back now, haha
Good lot of pussies is wet for you.

[Dacul]

Good lot of pussies is wet for you.

That is not a nice way of talking from a future Christian orthodox priest.

[Mans not hot]

That is not a nice way of talking from a future Christian orthodox priest.
Someone needs a good spank.

[Skomand]

A sacred painting for Polish nationalists: the "Prussian homage". Ethnically speaking it's man with a Lithuanian mother and a German father kneeling in front of another man - the King of Poland, his uncle - with a Lithuanian father and a German mother.
http://hostarea.de/out.php/i301662_prussian-homage.jpg (http://hostarea.de/show.php/301662_prussian-homage.jpg.html)
"Prussian Homage (Polish: Hołd pruski) is an oil on canvas painting by Polish painter Jan Matejko painted between 1879 and 1882 in Kraków (then part of Austria-Hungary). The painting depicts the "Prussian Homage," a significant political event from the time of the Renaissance in Poland in which Albrecht Hohenzollern, the Duke of Prussia paid tribute and swore allegiance to King Sigismund I the Old in Kraków's market square on 10 April 1525."
(WIKIPEDIA)