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Beorn
09-07-2009, 04:50 PM
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46333000/gif/_46333221_drive_left_rights_signs2_466.gif


Motorists in Samoa have switched the side of the road they drive on, overnight. It's a move that Britain has considered - but how would it work?

It's the kind of interview question that has reduced confident job seekers to quivering wrecks.
Imagine you are the minister in charge of the UK's roads and you have to switch the country to driving on the right-hand side. How would you do it?
A study of Samoa, in the South Pacific, this week might offer some clues. The country is experiencing its first day of driving on the left on Monday, the start of a special two-day bank holiday to ease Samoans into the new regime.

What if the UK were to follow? Driving on the right would make trips to the European mainland easier, when taking or hiring a car. And cars with steering wheels on the left could be cheaper.
The idea is not as fanciful as it sounds. Although the Department for Transport says it has no plans to change, it did examine such a plan in the late 1960s, two years after Sweden successfully switched to driving on the right.
Its report rejected the idea on grounds of safety and costs. But that was before Britain's entry into the European Union and the opening of the Channel Tunnel, which for the first time established a land link between Britain and the Continent. So, if the UK was to think again about a switch, what would be the key issues?

SIGNS & JUNCTIONS

Road markings and roadside signs would have to be switched to the other side of the road, but ready in advance of the day of change, in a huge logistical exercise.
One-way streets would have to be reconfigured and traffic lights with filters changed, says Paul Watters of the AA. To get an idea of the cost, changing signs from miles to kilometres alone was estimated at £750m, he adds.

The biggest engineering issue would be highway building, says Benjamin Heydecker of the Centre for Transport Studies at University College London. About one in 10 motorway junctions is asymmetric or incomplete, so would need to be dug up and rebuilt.
"Motorway signs would have to be turned round and repositioned, so approaches to junctions would not be in the same place."
Accident blackspots would all need looking at too, because the signs there are site-specific and so would need to change.

ADJUSTING SLIP ROADS



"Entrance and exits to motorways are not symmetrical either, so there would be consequences there too," says Mr Heydecker.
Slip roads that were deceleration lanes would suddenly be used for accelerating, so their lengths would need to be extended; and vice versa.

EDUCATING DRIVERS



Although many motorists would be used to driving on the right - thanks to trips abroad - a comprehensive retraining programme would be needed, according to Mr Heydecker. Particular emphasis would be put on negotiating roundabouts (which would run anti-clockwise) and left-hand turns, which would require cutting across oncoming traffic.
After years of driving, habits are well entrenched and it might take more than a few lessons to get used to the new arrangements. But where could "learners" practise, before the switch?

CAR STEERING WHEELS & BUS DOORS



Making life even harder for motorists is the fixed right-hand driver's position of cars sold in the UK - suddenly drivers would find themselves further away from the centre of the road.
Over time British drivers would buy cars with left-hand steering, so they would be changing gears with their right hands.
The global manufacturing of cars would be simplified if all countries were to opt for left-hand steering, says Mr Heydecker.
"If cars were all manufactured the same way, it would reduce the cost of design and improve the quality of vehicles."
Public service vehicles like buses would also have to undergo a massive overhaul so that their doors were on the right-hand-side of the vehicle.

LEARN FROM SWEDEN


Preparations were made long in advance, says Niklas Stavegard of Motormannen, which is the Swedish Automobile Association.
"All road signs were doubled, new signs on the right-hand side, which were covered until the day of the change. On the particular day, the left-hand side signs were covered and right hand side signs were used."
The change was made at 0500 on Sunday 3 September 1967. All private traffic was banned between 0100 and 0600 and there was a total stop on all traffic at 0450, with a countdown on the radio to 0500.
The speed limit in urban areas was lowered from 50km/h to 40km/h for a period of time after the change.
A majority of all cars already had the steering wheel on the left side, so no change was made to cars.

COST



In 1969, the financial burden of making the switch was calculated by the government to be £264m - about £3.4bn today. But that would now be seen as a ridiculously conservative estimate.
"Since that time, the road network and the level of sophistication of the network and its controlling infrastructure has grown enormously," says a spokeswoman for the Department for Transport.
Additional costs would include all buses being changed, alteration to motorway entrances and exits, and traffic control systems.
"Casualties would also be likely to rise, and the current cost of a fatality is £608,580," she says. "This could be particularly true for elderly road users who are less able to adapt to changed conditions."

THE VERDICT



The Republic of Ireland, which has already changed its road signs from miles to kilometres, briefly considered this move to greater European integration last year, when a pro-Brussels political party suggested it. But it was swiftly rejected.
"When the question came up, it was followed by the question 'Is it needed?' and the answer to that was 'No', says Sean O'Neill of the Irish National Roads Authority.
"If it was needed or if the UK did it, and left us as one of the last European countries driving on the left-hand side, then we would think differently."
For a significantly bigger country, like the UK, with a relatively more developed road network, the challenge would be even greater.
The immediate fear would be of road chaos and mass casualties, says Philip Gomm of the RAC Foundation.
"Given that any change would have to be instantaneous, and the nation's roads are never quiet, only less busy - indeed Britain has some of the most congested roads in Europe - how do you seamlessly get everyone onto the other side of the carriageway?
"The whole concept is mindboggling. It would be a logistical nightmare involving huge public education, vast sums of money and a massive amount of staff - and all so we can be like the French.
"So probably the best advice to anyone even contemplating such a scheme is; don't bother. If it ain't broke, don't fix it."


Source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8239048.stm)

There used to be a time when headlines like 'FOG IN CHANNEL. CONTINENT CUT OFF.' meant something.

Atlas
09-07-2009, 04:52 PM
I'm laughing already at the mess it will be by midnight when your governement will decide this.

"You're on the wrong side, motherfucker"... "listen to the fucking medias, pratt". :p

ikki
09-07-2009, 05:29 PM
heheh... better do it the careful way, by a gradual shift.

First the heavy traffic shifts to driving on the right, later cars and finally motorcycles.. all in all a week for each shift :D

Skandi
09-07-2009, 06:11 PM
heheh... better do it the careful way, by a gradual shift.

First the heavy traffic shifts to driving on the right, later cars and finally motorcycles.. all in all a week for each shift :D

?? that would be fun oncoming lorries in middle of the road!

No we should not bow to stupid pressure from the continent, There is also no need as we don't share any road connection with any country that drives on the right it is never a problem.

What is funny is that Scotland is full of arrows and signs telling you which side to drive on, while in England they are very rare only around ports. Tells you something about the scots :D?

Loki
09-07-2009, 06:50 PM
Why on earth would we want to drive on the wrong side of the road? It's bad enough when you get to Europe. :coffee:

The Lawspeaker
09-07-2009, 06:52 PM
Should the European Union switch to left-hand traffic ?

Yes.

The Lawspeaker
09-07-2009, 06:57 PM
BTW. I remember that I had posted a thread about Dagen H (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5761&highlight=dagen) (September 3, 1967) when the Swedes switched to right-hand traffic.
Perhaps it is interesting to look at it and see what that kind of change will bring.

I propose left-hand traffic in all of the EU as it seems to be safer as well. A 1969 study by the British road engineer L.L Leeming showed that countries driving on the left-hand side of the road have a lower collision rate then those driving on the right-hand side of the road because of the way the human eye works. Or as wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-_and_left-hand_traffic#Safety_factors) states: It has been suggested this is partly because humans are more commonly right-eye dominant than left-eye dominant. In left-hand traffic, the predominantly better-performing right eye is used to monitor oncoming traffic and the driver's wing mirror.

I am yet to find his work that lead him to this conclusion - or the figures for that matter but if this is true then it is a sound reason to left-hand traffic.

Gooding
09-07-2009, 07:52 PM
Ooohh, you mean drive on the right! Sorry, I thought rightism was intended as a political term! In that case, I honestly don't know..

Atlas
09-07-2009, 07:54 PM
Seriously I don't know either if the brits like it that way why not I am just not used to it and am more likely to involve in accidents.

Lahtari
09-07-2009, 07:55 PM
Yes. And you also need to start using the metric system. ;)

Of course you won't, but some day a new Hitler will come and kick your ass, and do the same that they did with the Austrians: order the tanks to drive on the right. http://clicksmilies.com/s1106/sauer/angry-smiley-048.gif

The Lawspeaker
09-07-2009, 08:08 PM
Yes. And you also need to start using the metric system. ;)

Of course you won't, but some day a new Hitler will come and kick your ass, and do the same that they did with the Austrians: order the tanks to drive on the right. http://clicksmilies.com/s1106/sauer/angry-smiley-048.gif
:) Nah. The metric system is a nice and easy system but it is not traditional. Before the invention of the metric system all European nations used their own system and the way it worked differed from place to place. Well I am not in favor of this either but I think that we in Europe should switch towards the Imperial system and in our currencies also revert to the pre-decimal system that dates back to the Frankish era (and was used in the U.K- the last country in all of Europe which was ironically never part of the Frankish Empire).

We need our own systems and our own ways again.

Lahtari
09-07-2009, 08:13 PM
:) Nah. The metric system is a nice and easy system but it is not traditional. Before the invention of the metric system all European nations used their own system and the way it worked differed from place to place. Well I am not in favor of this either but I think that we in Europe should switch towards the Imperial system and in our currencies also revert to the pre-decimal system that dates back to the Frankish era (and was used in the U.K- the last country in all of Europe which was ironically never part of the Frankish Empire).

We need our own systems and our own ways again.

Ok, just wait for the new Führer I promised you. Have fun working at the coal mines in some distant hellhole of the occupied British Empire. :D :D ;)

The Lawspeaker
09-07-2009, 08:15 PM
Ok, just wait for the new Führer I promised you. Have fun working at the coal mines in some distant hellhole of the occupied British Empire. :D :D ;)
Nah. I prefer returning to tradition. Not one size fits all. :thumb001:
There were countries like Britain, Ireland, the Netherlands and several more (probably Austria too) that used the duodecimal system in their currencies before (on the mainland) the French took over in the late 1700s and in Britain until 1971.

Lahtari
09-07-2009, 08:46 PM
Pssst, there was also a time when people measured distance by how often the horse takes a leak, and paid their daily groceries with squirrel skins. :icon_lol: :cool:

(Ok, enough trolling for today, good night. :D)

Brynhild
09-07-2009, 10:51 PM
BTW. I remember that I had posted a thread about Dagen H (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5761&highlight=dagen) (September 3, 1967) when the Swedes switched to right-hand traffic.
Perhaps it is interesting to look at it and see what that kind of change will bring.

I propose left-hand traffic in all of the EU as it seems to be safer as well. A 1969 study by the British road engineer L.L Leeming showed that countries driving on the left-hand side of the road have a lower collision rate then those driving on the right-hand side of the road because of the way the human eye works. Or as wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-_and_left-hand_traffic#Safety_factors) states: It has been suggested this is partly because humans are more commonly right-eye dominant than left-eye dominant. In left-hand traffic, the predominantly better-performing right eye is used to monitor oncoming traffic and the driver's wing mirror.

I am yet to find his work that lead him to this conclusion - or the figures for that matter but if this is true then it is a sound reason to left-hand traffic.

I can't say I've heard of this test, and would have no way of knowing how conclusive it is, but for myself, I'm right eye dominant and very comfortable with driving on the left hand side. Perhaps it's because I've been conditioned that way, but if there's any element of truth in this test, I'd be involved in a pile-up! :D

I said no to the UK switch. It's what everyone has gotten used to, and why should they conform to the rest of Europe, just because some of them want them to?

Æmeric
09-08-2009, 01:12 AM
Britian is an island off to itself. Go ahead & drive on the leftside, it is part of makes the British unique. The Japanese also drive on the left.

Treffie
09-08-2009, 01:28 AM
Countries driving on the left or right

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Countries_driving_on_the_left_or_right.svg/800px-Countries_driving_on_the_left_or_right.svg.png

Beorn
09-08-2009, 01:33 AM
Bloody fascists all over the world. Workers of the blue world unite. No Pasaran!

The Lawspeaker
09-08-2009, 02:22 AM
Bloody fascists all over the world. Workers of the blue world unite. No Pasaran!
I am from a red nation and it is high time to join the blue front !

Lahtari
09-08-2009, 07:40 AM
Bloody fascists all over the world. Workers of the blue world unite. No Pasaran!

Workers? No, the countries marked on blue are the Free World, where everyone is still allowed to drive on whatever side they wish to. The reds are the Asiatic Communist hordes under one supreme Leader, who like the warriors of Genghis Khan, with slanting eyes gleaming behind the wheel, will drive over everyone who disagrees. http://clicksmilies.com/s1106/teufel/devil-smiley-041.gif

Amarantine
09-08-2009, 08:31 AM
Of course, they should not drive with the wrong side!
Uh I would implement so big penalities for this!

:P

Phlegethon
09-08-2009, 09:54 AM
I have to admit that I harbour a deep distrust towards folks who drive on the wrong side of the road. Actually I have made the weird experience of driving a jeep with steering wheel on the right both in U.K. barracks as well as in regular German traffic, and although I am a good driver that alone can drive you nuts in no time. Changing gears with the left hand is a big no-no, and the arrangement of the pedals to me also clearly favours steering on the left and driving on the right side.

I consider Lawspeaker's quoted opinion as bogus. Just look at who is driving on the left in the world: Island apes, Aussies and Kiwis, plus a few piss-ant colonies and third world countries. You cannot really have accidents there as either nobody is driving there anyway, or, like in downtown London, it is completely safe, as the average speed is somewhere around 5 miles per hour.

Lahtari
09-08-2009, 10:01 AM
I have to admit that I harbour a deep distrust towards folks who drive on the wrong side of the road. Actually I have made the weird experience of driving a jeep with steering wheel on the right both in U.K. barracks as well as in regular German traffic, and although I am a good driver that alone can drive you nuts in no time. Changing gears with the left hand is a big no-no, and the arrangement of the pedals to me also clearly favours steering on the left and driving on the right side.

So true. I'd rather trade my car for a donkey than go through all that trouble for nothing. At least there will be less accidents, then. :D


I consider Lawspeaker's quoted opinion as bogus. Just look at who is driving on the left in the world: Island apes, Aussies and Kiwis, plus a few piss-ant colonies and third world countries. You cannot really have accidents there as either nobody is driving there anyway, or, like in downtown London, it is completely safe, as the average speed is somewhere around 5 miles per hour.

And in ...India? What do they drive there with? Donkeys? :mmmm:

Phlegethon
09-08-2009, 10:07 AM
As we all know India has no traffic laws that get enforced, so the side of the street can be chosen deliberately. They are at the "survival of the fittest' stage in this respect.

Pino
09-08-2009, 12:24 PM
I like driving on the left, it's just about one of the last British things in Britain left!

The Lawspeaker
09-08-2009, 01:01 PM
I consider Lawspeaker's quoted opinion as bogus. Just look at who is driving on the left in the world: Island apes, Aussies and Kiwis, plus a few piss-ant colonies and third world countries. You cannot really have accidents there as either nobody is driving there anyway, or, like in downtown London, it is completely safe, as the average speed is somewhere around 5 miles per hour.
It's a study dating back to 1969. Actually in those days here in the Netherlands around 3000 a year died in traffic.
Sweden actually got less head-on collisions after Dagen H because people drove carefully but it didn't take long until the number of accidents reached the old level.

And I have no idea when you were in Britain. But I have noticed that traffic was indeed very safe there when I was there but that perhaps has more to do with the responsible way in which they drive. (As punctual as the Germans btw).

But I think that your remark btw it more motivated by this hatred of anything English. "Nobody is driving there" LOL!

Here is Sydney:

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/74769/sydney-rush-hour-3.jpg

And the good old M25 around London:

http://www.travelpictures.co.uk/TP/TRAFFIC%20&%20ROADS/231366d%20M25%20OrbitalMotorway.jpg

Nobody ever drives in India :coffee:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2335/1918641762_60e1ab45c5.jpg?v=0

But, indeed, traffic in India is far from safe. But that is because those Sahib's can't drive anyways.;)

Phlegethon
09-08-2009, 06:38 PM
We have more traffic here than around London, as we are the bigger metropolitan area. And I'd say that we're also slightly more disciplined in traffic. Belgium and France of course are pure anarchy on the street, Portugal and Greece are suicide, Spain is somewhere in between. And the Netherlands: they are only a problem when they drive outside of the Netherlands, unless you're talking about the bicyclists. They should all be shot!

Frigga
09-08-2009, 06:48 PM
Well, that is way it is called the "right" side of the road! ;) :P

We Americans do it right! :D And most of the rest of the world agrees with us! :P

Phlegethon
09-08-2009, 06:50 PM
And yet California driving licenses are void here in Germany. We have our reasons.

Äike
09-08-2009, 07:09 PM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2335/1918641762_60e1ab45c5.jpg?v=0

But, indeed, traffic in India is far from safe. But that is because those Sahib's can't drive anyways.;)

Here's the reason:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGfLNqjh4j0

Albion
04-26-2011, 05:35 PM
Should the European Union switch to left-hand traffic ?

Yes.

Why??? Wouldn't it be easier to switch Britain than most of the continent? I think we should switch to the right and adopt the Europe-wide (de-facto) standard. Then I could get into grey exports. :lightbul::lightbul:

The Lawspeaker
04-26-2011, 05:41 PM
Err this is about driving on the left or the right-hand side of the road. Not about politics.

Cato
04-26-2011, 05:42 PM
Err this is about driving on the left or the right-hand side of the road. Not about politics.

LOL. Misread it a bit. Will delete the post.

The Lawspeaker
04-26-2011, 05:44 PM
Why??? Wouldn't it be easier to switch Britain than most of the continent? I think we should switch to the right and adopt the Europe-wide (de-facto) standard. Then I could get into grey exports. :lightbul::lightbul:
Britain has had to give up a lot of cultural baggage. No I think that it is our turn to accommodate to British sensitivities and switch to the left. It will also be a nice little bonus for the car industry (particularly the British car industry) as there will be a lot of people that will buy new cars.. And, given the right incentives, cleaner cars.

Also while we are at it: we'll switch to Imperial and dub it the European Standard Unit.

Cato
04-26-2011, 05:45 PM
LOL. Misread it a bit. Will delete the post.

I'm multitasking hugely at the moment. :D

Albion
04-26-2011, 05:50 PM
Britain has had to give up a lot of cultural baggage. No I think that it is our turn to accommodate to British sensitivities and switch to the left. It will also be a nice little bonus for the car industry (particularly the British car industry) as there will be a lot of people that will buy new cars.. And, given the right incentives, cleaner cars.

Also while we are at it: we'll switch to Imperial and dub it the European Standard Unit.


Yeah, that'd be good for our car manufacturers in the short term.

Switch to imperial? Are you mad??? I'm about the only person here who supports metric (it makes more sense) - European brainwashing has worked and now you want me to switch to back imperial?:p

SaxonCeorl
04-26-2011, 05:51 PM
What if we compromise and just let everyone drive where they want? http://www.akworld.net/webblog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/traffic-mess.jpg

The Lawspeaker
04-26-2011, 05:54 PM
Yes. Because Imperial is traditional. Metric is a French revolutionary system. It may be easy for everyday use but that's about it. We should also revert to the pre-decimal system that dates back to the days of the Franks.

Cato
04-26-2011, 06:29 PM
Hmm, on which side of the time/space stream does Dr. Who drive the Tardis? ;)

Albion
04-26-2011, 06:40 PM
Yes. Because Imperial is traditional. Metric is a French revolutionary system. It may be easy for everyday use but that's about it. We should also revert to the pre-decimal system that dates back to the days of the Franks.

What about progress? :D And besides, an Englishman invented metric. ;)

The Lawspeaker
04-26-2011, 06:50 PM
Progress my arse :) Progress can be achieved using old methods as well. And yes.. while it may be Wilkins that, in part, came up with it. Stevin and Huygens (Flemish and Dutch) had also been thinking about it.

But it were the French (during the 19th century) that pushed for internationalisation of the idea.

Albion
04-26-2011, 07:58 PM
Progress my arse :) Progress can be achieved using old methods as well. And yes.. while it may be Wilkins that, in part, came up with it. Stevin and Huygens (Flemish and Dutch) had also been thinking about it.

But it were the French (during the 19th century) that pushed for internationalisation of the idea.

Wow, until seeing this last one I was still convinced you were joking - a continental who doesn't love metric? That's impossible! :p

Well I'm sticking by metric, imperial with all its weird ways doesn't appeal to me in the least.
And isn't it better to have a simple, universal system? When I was in engineering we still had everything in imperial because engineering is rather stuck in its ways and because of American influence to keep it. I always hated the accursed system, it needs to be scrapped.

Anyway, I've created a new thread for this... (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26654)

Loki
04-27-2011, 07:09 AM
I really hope not. I couldn't imagine driving on the right, it just seems WRONG! :(

The Lawspeaker
04-27-2011, 11:02 AM
My father-in-law had to hold me back a couple of times on the first days when I was crossing the street (in England) but driving on the left-hand side of the road now actually now makes more sense to me rather then our Americanofrog habit of driving on the wrong side of the road.

Lahtari
05-02-2011, 11:22 PM
Britain has had to give up a lot of cultural baggage. No I think that it is our turn to accommodate to British sensitivities and switch to the left. It will also be a nice little bonus for the car industry (particularly the British car industry) as there will be a lot of people that will buy new cars.. And, given the right incentives, cleaner cars.

Also while we are at it: we'll switch to Imperial and dub it the European Standard Unit.


Also while we're at it, let's switch money back to squirrelskins.:thumb001:

(talking about fighting inflation lol! :D)


Yes. Because Imperial is traditional. Metric is a French revolutionary system. It may be easy for everyday use but that's about it. We should also revert to the pre-decimal system that dates back to the days of the Franks.

And when we are at it, let's switch the distance measurements back to "dog barkings" and "reindeer pissings". They predate everything you continentals might have got by at least a millennium. :thumb001::thumb001::thumb001:

IConnor
06-08-2012, 01:19 PM
My bad.

Incal
06-08-2012, 03:20 PM
It would be cool. Standardization.

The Lawspeaker
06-11-2012, 10:05 AM
The Netherlands should actually turn to left-hand traffic - just to be different from the rest of the club. And if the Belgians and Luxembourgers would want to do the same that would be even better. Now we should make sure that one day there will be another United Kingdom. A new United Kingdom of the Netherlands.

Albion
06-11-2012, 03:40 PM
The Netherlands should actually turn to left-hand traffic - just to be different from the rest of the club. And if the Belgians and Luxembourgers would want to do the same that would be even better. Now we should make sure that one day there will be another United Kingdom. A new United Kingdom of the Netherlands.

That's the problem with you lefties, you're always trying to be different. ;)

Britain is different because for a long time it has been conservative and isn't a country which embraces radical change. We said "screw the rest of the world, if we want to keep driving on the left we'll just make / refit the cars".
You've got to stand up to these people, the rest of the world. :thumb001:

The Lawspeaker
06-11-2012, 03:41 PM
That's the problem with you lefties, you're always trying to be different. ;)

Britain is different because for a long time it has been conservative and isn't a country which embraces radical change. We said "screw the rest of the world, if we want to keep driving on the left we'll just make / refit the cars".
You've got to stand up to these people, the rest of the world. :thumb001:

We are merely going back to the days before Napoleon. ;)

Leadchucker
06-11-2012, 04:04 PM
They could but shouldn't. It just wouldn't be right somehow. I did very well the first couple times except for shifting the gearbox with my left hand. Roundabouts the wrong way round are fun too....wheeeeeeeeee :D