Germany tells France and Italy to 'just work harder'

[Baluarte]

Germany tells France and Italy to 'just work harder' to solve economic woes as Hollande warns austerity could tear Europe apart

Italy and France need to work 'harder and faster' to resolve their structural problems, a senior ally of German chancellor Angela Merkel said today.

Michael Meister, a key figure in Merkel's Christian Democrats, said: 'Italy and France have structural problems to resolve and not economic problems.

'They can't wait any longer. More time won't relieve the problem. It'll only make it worse.'

However, French president Francois Hollande warned that the EU's austerity policy was threatening the continent's stability and could even see Europe 'wiped out from the world map'.

Figures yesterday showed France has plunged back into recession exactly a year after Hollande took office, piling more misery on the beleaguered socialist leader.

Italian government bond yields have also fallen in recent months while the eurozone is suffering its longest ever downturn.

The French economic collapse, confirmed last night, means that nine of the 17 eurozone countries are now in recession.

Mr Hollande told a news conference in Paris that the financial crisis is now 'behind us', but predicted that widespread austerity measures could push the continent into a fresh disaster.

'What is hitting Europe is a recession provoked by the austerity policy,' he said.
'If Europe does not advance it will fall or even be wiped out from the world map - my duty is to bring Europe out of its lethargy

Mr Meister said the European Central Bank should stop buying Italian government debt if Italy failed to meet its debt reduction requirements

The value of Italian bonds has fallen as investors put their faith in the ECB's ability to prevent indecisive elections earlier this year driving Italy into full-blown crisis.

But Mr Meister's comments to the Neue Osnabruecker Zeitung newspaper also come just as Germany's campaign for the September election gets into full swing.

He said Italy urgently needed to work on improving its competitiveness and consolidating its budget.
'That's the job of national political leaders and not the ECB,' he said. He added the new Italian government was capable of taking the necessary action and the country has a relatively strong industry.
'Italy can do it on its own strength,' he said.

Meanwhile figures showed that France, the single currency’s second largest economy, saw its output shrink by 0.2 per cent in the first three months of the year.

As it shrank by the same amount in the final three months of 2012, it means France has experienced a double-dip recession – after the economy contracted in 2009 when the banking crisis sparked the deepest global slump since the Second World War

Mr Hollande is the most unpopular president in French history, according to opinion polls. He has often been criticised for his handling of the economy, ridiculed for attempting and failing to introduce a 75 per cent tax on the wealthiest, and lampooned for his personal life and his relationship with partner Valerie Trierweiler.

Under the tenure of the tax-and-spend Left-winger, the country has seen unemployment soar and business confidence drop. Unemployment in France has reached 3.22 million, or 10.6 per cent, the worst since 1997. Youth unemployment is 25.4 per cent.

Under Mr Hollande, the French economy has failed to grow at all. In contrast, the UK avoided re-entering recession – two consecutive quarters of decline. Our economy grew by 0.3 per cent between January and March.

European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso urged Mr Hollande to proceed faster with economic reforms in return for being granted two more years to bring its budget deficit below the EU limit.

France had to make up for 20 years of lost competitiveness and reduce ‘the exorbitant weight of debt’ on its economy, he said.

French finance minister Pierre Moscovici blamed the decline on the moribund economies of the countries around it. He said: ‘We are in Europe, the eurozone countries are our main clients and our main suppliers, and when the environment around us is depressed, well, that’s the main factor in the slowing of the French economy.’

The bad news for the French economy came as the recession across the 17-nation eurozone – of which Britain is not a member – entered its sixth consecutive quarter, falling 0.2 per cent.

The euro bloc has been in recession since the end of 2011, but this is the first time that the economic malaise has spread to the core nations, France and Germany.

Germany, the largest economy, narrowly avoided entering recession after its economy grew 0.1 per cent, up from a decline of 0.7 per cent last quarter. Portugal, Spain and Italy, officially remain in recession, with Ireland, Malta and debt-hit Slovenia still to report on the last quarter. The economies of all three shrank at the end of 2012.

Unemployment across the eurozone is at a record high of 12.1 per cent, and in countries such as Greece is as high as 27.2 per cent.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/15/article-2324749-19CAEE9B000005DC-361_634x583.jpg


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Master arrogance.
How about letting the exchange rate of the Euro fall so that competivity can be found again? Oh, of course, the Germans don't want that?

[Arend]

Master arrogance.
How about letting the exchange rate of the Euro fall so that competivity can be found again? Oh, of course, the Germans don't want that?And why should we do that? Because the Catholic League demands it from us? The European central bank is not the same as the German government and no, it is also not controlled by the German government.

You’re not even European, so please stop trying to further divide Europeans.

[Peyrol]

The solution is simply: exit from the EU and a federal state (i'm talking about Italy), whithout some regions (usually in the south) which literally suck all our taxes and money.

[Pepe Gonzalez]

stupid EU is stupid... bad for all

[poiuytrewq0987]

I am truly astounded at how lazy southern Europeans are. They feel like their job is a right, not a privilege. They expect to keep collecting their salary even if they don't do their job well or not at all. When I am in the US or in one of northern European countries I can expect business to be finished in a timely and respectful manner. In one of southern European countries? Good luck...

[Anglojew]

Good advice.

[Peyrol]

I am truly astounded at how lazy southern Europeans are. They feel like their job is a right, not a privilege. They expect to keep collecting their salary even if they don't do their job well or not at all. When I am in the US or in one of northern European countries I can expect business to be finished in a timely and respectful manner. In one of southern European countries? Good luck...


You eastern have just to stop to come here in massa then, since more than 3 million of eastern euros live there in Northern Italy.

We're full (southerners, maghrebi, africans, asians, eastern euros, etc), so please stay away from there.

[sevruk]

Germans are right...

[Peyrol]

Lo @ the slavs ''they're right''.

Think about your second world nations...let's compare northern italian GDP per capita with eastern Europe...



http://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/images/newshome/gpd_2008_big.png


Exactly the same.

[Stefan]

What was the point of the European Union anyway, to stifle competition? Decentralization seems to be the way of the future, but for some reason every government in the world wants more centralization. Probably a last attempt to retain power. I would think this wouldn't be a problem if each country wasn't so dependent on one another, some more than others even.

[Albion]

I am truly astounded at how lazy southern Europeans are. They feel like their job is a right, not a privilege. They expect to keep collecting their salary even if they don't do their job well or not at all. When I am in the US or in one of northern European countries I can expect business to be finished in a timely and respectful manner. In one of southern European countries? Good luck...

Are Southern Euros really so lazy? I see people say this a lot on forums and blogs, but I can't bring myself to believe it.

[Peyrol]

Are Southern Euros really so lazy? I see people say this a lot on forums and blogs, but I can't bring myself to believe it.

If there isn't work, you can't work, simply and clear.

Here only immigrants employement is growing, while italian employement is always declining...and now our new congolese-born minister of immigration want an affirmative action for the immigrants...:picard1:

[Baluarte]

They're not. OECD working hours statistics disprove that entirely.

It's just comfortable for the Germans to say it is related to "working hard", when in reality, the problem comes from a very overpriced currency that kills competitivity, and from stiff regulations that overregulate the economic activities (think of the fishing in Spain).

A study was conducted in France one year ago, estimating what would be the value of every national currency if the euro was dismantled. Every single one of them (accurate exchange rate) was lower than the current EUR trading price.

Guess what was the exception? Yep, the Deutschmark which would actually be more expensive.

[Ibericus]

Disolve the EU, end of the problem. Each to it's own. Im sick of the EU.

[Arend]

They're not. OECD working hours statistics disprove that entirelyWorking the longest hours ≠ working the hardest (or the most productive). Besides, I wouldn’t trust any of these statistics anyway.

Guess what was the exception? Yep, the Deutschmark which would actually be more expensive.Its called Deutsche Mark not Deutschmark. So, is this actually also beneficial for us? That I can buy less with my money than it’s actually worth?

[RussiaPrussia]

Lo @ the slavs ''they're right''.

Think about your second world nations...let's compare northern italian GDP per capita with eastern Europe...



http://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/images/newshome/gpd_2008_big.png


Exactly the same.

and moscow has gdp per capita of 40 thousand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_federal_subjects_by_GDP_per_capita ) and has 11 million people like your green regions.

[RussiaPrussia]

Master arrogance.
How about letting the exchange rate of the Euro fall so that competivity can be found again? Oh, of course, the Germans don't want that?

dude most of our exports go now to non EURO countries its 60% now, german success has nothing more to do with the currency but with productivity. Yes in the start it was beneficial but we made a transition.

Southern europeans are stuck, without own currencies they they cant compete with germany anymore. But it were southern europeans in the first place who wanted the euro to have lower interest rates for borrowing cheaper debt. France wanted the Euro because they feared germany would be too stronger after renufication. You can also see how southern centric the eurozone is because france wanted all catholic to join.

[Peyrol]

and moscow has gdp per capita of 40 thousand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_federal_subjects_by_GDP_per_capita ) and has 11 million people like your green regions.

Moscow is comparable with the european ''Blue banana'', the economical core of Europe.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Blue_Banana.svg

Other eastern nations can't.

[RussiaPrussia]

Moscow is comparable with the european ''Blue banana'', the economical core of Europe.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Blue_Banana.svg

Other eastern nations can't.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wcbWNFWjl9g/T3e64AwybEI/AAAAAAAARJY/HUOeALp_GXE/s1600/Europe-1992-2010-compare-subset_H.gif

[Peyrol]

Are you really saying that (for example) romanian and bulgarian economies/quality of life are comparable with London, Ile-de-France-Ruhrgebiet or Lombardy...?

Senseless and pretentious.

[Albion]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wcbWNFWjl9g/T3e64AwybEI/AAAAAAAARJY/HUOeALp_GXE/s1600/Europe-1992-2010-compare-subset_H.gif

Lol, what does the increase in street lighting and light pollution have to do with anything. ;)

[Graham]

Moscow is comparable with the european ''Blue banana'', the economical core of Europe.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Blue_Banana.svg

Other eastern nations can't.
Should extend that into Norways North Sea. They grow gold trees.


Lol, what does the increase in street lighting and light pollution have to do with anything. ;)
Poland ditched fire, for street lighting.

[RussiaPrussia]

Lol, what does the increase in street lighting and light pollution have to do with anything. ;)

thats not pollution

[Albion]

thats not pollution

It's a light pollution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_pollution) map. (https://www.google.com/search?q=light%20pollution&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=9XmWUYCIEciq4AT22IGIAg&biw=1366&bih=634&sei=J3qWUc2xGomP0AWa84Eo#um=1&safe=off&hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=light+pollution+map&oq=light+pollution+map&gs_l=img.3..0l10.2220.2776.0.3091.4.2.0.2.2.0.129. 247.0j2.2.0...0.0...1c.1.14.img.pK10xgUJZ-g&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.46751780,d.d2k&fp=c7fb55e54bf8c311&biw=1366&bih=634)

[Damião de Góis]

Interesting list, about regional GDP per capita:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_regions_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

[Albion]

Interesting list, about regional GDP per capita:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_regions_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

Inner London - $152,000 - wow, compare that to the poorest regions of the UK (either the South Wales valleys or Hebrides) and the comparison is quite staggering. Capital cities are always a world away from the rest of their countries though.

[Peyrol]

Interesting list, about regional GDP per capita:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_regions_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

8 venetic cities, 6 lombards, 2 emilians, 2 friulians and 2 piemontese in the AA+...good

[Damião de Góis]

Some surprises on that list by the way, like the Mexican region. Maybe it's well known, but i didn't know it. Also regions like Alaska, which i never thought of as very developed. I guess these two are there because of oil industry?

And also some eastern european regions seem to be doing very well, the capital regions.

[RussiaPrussia]

It's a light pollution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_pollution) map. (https://www.google.com/search?q=light%20pollution&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=9XmWUYCIEciq4AT22IGIAg&biw=1366&bih=634&sei=J3qWUc2xGomP0AWa84Eo#um=1&safe=off&hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=light+pollution+map&oq=light+pollution+map&gs_l=img.3..0l10.2220.2776.0.3091.4.2.0.2.2.0.129. 247.0j2.2.0...0.0...1c.1.14.img.pK10xgUJZ-g&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.46751780,d.d2k&fp=c7fb55e54bf8c311&biw=1366&bih=634)

so what you have it too before and after, also it shows economic activity thats the whole point

[poiuytrewq0987]

Economy activity in Russia is when you bribe someone to do the job they were already being paid to do.

[Albion]

Some surprises on that list by the way, like the Mexican region. Maybe it's well known, but i didn't know it. Also regions like Alaska, which i never thought of as very developed. I guess these two are there because of oil industry?

And also some eastern european regions seem to be doing very well, the capital regions.

Resource dominated regions like Western Australia and Northwest Territories, or Aberdeenshire in the UK have high GDP per capitas.


so what you have it too before and after, also it shows economic activity thats the whole point

I'm not making a point about light pollution here, I'm making a point that it isn't necessarily linked to GDP per capita nor to development. In the third world where they lack electricity in many areas, then yes it often is a sign of development, but in Eastern Europe? No, unless you're telling me that you guys were using candles and waterwheels back in 1992 instead of lightbulbs... :picard1:

[Pepe Gonzalez]

Inner London - $152,000 - wow, compare that to the poorest regions of the UK (either the South Wales valleys or Hebrides) and the comparison is quite staggering. Capital cities are always a world away from the rest of their countries though.

BUT cost of living is also much higher in capitals

[Ibericus]

Some of these regions line Inner London have a lot of companies concentrated in it, so the high GDP can be misleading.

[Wolf]

It seems to me, that there are only two probable options in order to regain your competitiveness. You can either save to death, or you can leave the Euro and devaluate your currency. What sounds best to you?

[RussiaPrussia]

Resource dominated regions like Western Australia and Northwest Territories, or Aberdeenshire in the UK have high GDP per capitas.



I'm not making a point about light pollution here, I'm making a point that it isn't necessarily linked to GDP per capita nor to development. In the third world where they lack electricity in many areas, then yes it often is a sign of development, but in Eastern Europe? No, unless you're telling me that you guys were using candles and waterwheels back in 1992 instead of lightbulbs... :picard1:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_energy_consumption_per_capita

http://www.indexmundi.com/map/?v=81000

Russias energy consumption is above germany and poland is like italys and spains. Per capita of course.




Economy activity in Russia is when you bribe someone to do the job they were already being paid to do.

And the guy has twice the money to spend into the economy

[Baluarte]

It seems to me, that there are only two probable options in order to regain your competitiveness. You can either save to death, or you can leave the Euro and devaluate your currency. What sounds best to you?

I think the Commission will just keep raising our taxes while the politicians obey like good servants.

To quote Alain Soral there are only two choices in today's world: Global government or the revolt of the Nations.

[Albion]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_energy_consumption_per_capita

http://www.indexmundi.com/map/?v=81000

Russias energy consumption is above germany and poland is like italys and spains. Per capita of course.

And? You have many more people, ~140 million to Germany's ~90 million and that you use more energy can mean anything - it can be related to population, or it could just mean that your industry is less efficient in its energy use and so requires more (as is often the case).


And the guy has twice the money to spend into the economy

If he spends it in Russia and not on imports. But such makes the cost of hiring people higher and would make a country thus less competitive and make the unemployment rate grow. Obviously though it isn't the case, workers aren't bribed en mass.

[Aunt Hilda]

Lo @ the slavs ''they're right''.

Think about your second world nations...let's compare northern italian GDP per capita with eastern Europe...



http://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/images/newshome/gpd_2008_big.png


Exactly the same.

have you noticed the czech republic?
in any case, thats not really a fair comparison since eastern europe was communist for 40 - 70 years and made a big regime change just 20 years ago.

[Baluarte]

GDP per capita is a subpar way to measure life quality.

The fact all of France gets a mediocre result while the ultrasaturated Netherlands gets green has no connection whatsoever to the social reality in both places.

I've travelled enough in both places to know.

[Albion]

have you noticed the czech republic?
in any case, thats not really a fair comparison since eastern europe was communist for 40 - 70 years and made a big regime change just 20 years ago.

Czech republic is certainly worth considering, but Scotland surely beats it. Scotland has probably achieved much more than most Slavic states unless Slavs are treated as a whole. I'd say only Czechia and Russia are on an equal footing with it, but Scotland is quite impressive and hard to beat, it probably has achieved more than these two on a per capita basis.

[Aunt Hilda]

Czech republic is certainly worth considering, but Scotland surely beats it. Scotland has probably achieved much more than most Slavic states unless Slavs are treated as a whole. I'd say only Czechia and Russia are on an equal footing with it, but Scotland is quite impressive and hard to beat, it probably has achieved more than these two on a per capita basis.

again, if we're basing our opinion on GDP per capita, we have to consider the history of the region.
just take the IMF. According to them most parts of eastern europe, czech republic in particular, are going to be better off than Italy in just 5 years.

[Baluarte]

Not to discredit your idea Migla, but quoting the IMF is not what I'd call a reliable source..

[Aunt Hilda]

Not to discredit your idea Migla, but quoting the IMF is not what I'd call a reliable source..

agree, they tend to exaggerate quite a bit. my guess would be at least 10 years.

[RussiaPrussia]

again, if we're basing our opinion on GDP per capita, we have to consider the history of the region.
just take the IMF. According to them most parts of eastern europe, czech republic in particular, are going to be better off than Italy in just 5 years.

you can already say that eastern europeans like poland, russia, baltics, hungary, slovenia, czech & slovak republics are already first world. Maybe not at italies level but their gdp per capita is allready as high as portugal, greece or saudi arabia. I actually made a thread about it in ABF.

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/41955-Do-you-think-Eastern-Europeans-should-be-categorized-as-First-World-countries

[Aunt Hilda]

you can already say that eastern europeans like poland, russia, baltics, hungary, slovenia, czech & slovak republics are already first world. Maybe not at italies level but their gdp per capita is allready as high as malta, greece or saudi arabia. I actually made a thread about it in ABF.

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/41955-Do-you-think-Eastern-Europeans-should-be-categorized-as-First-World-countries
I don't know about Russia, their opposition to NATO might make that difficult, politically speaking.
first world is a cold war concept anyway.
let's put it away. Better late than never.

[RussiaPrussia]

first world, is a cold war concept anyway.
let's put it away. Better late than never.

1st world actually means europe originally while second world means americas and third world the rest. Americans abused this term. Anyways you get my point, its about development.

[Albion]

again, if we're basing our opinion on GDP per capita, we have to consider the history of the region.
just take the IMF. According to them most parts of eastern europe, czech republic in particular, are going to be better off than Italy in just 5 years.

I was thinking more along the lines of inventions and innovation, both nations were historically rather good at it. Czechia was the powerhouse of Austria-Hungary, Scotland was the workshop of the British Empire.

[Aunt Hilda]

I was thinking more along the lines of inventions and innovation, both nations were historically rather good at it. Czechia was the powerhouse of Austria-Hungary, Scotland was the workshop of the British Empire.

in that case, Poland surely qualifies as a cultural powerhouse.

[Albion]

in that case, Poland surely qualifies as a cultural powerhouse.

Yeah, but it hasn't really spread it outside of its region like say France, England or even Scotland and Ireland. Besides, don't go humble on me regarding Scottish achievements. Scotland beats most, if not all the Slavic states on an individual basis.

[Aunt Hilda]

Yeah, but it hasn't really spread it outside of its region like say France, England or even Scotland and Ireland.

Ireland? really? think of Chopin, Copernicus, Mickiewicz, the list goes on.


Besides, don't go humble on me regarding Scottish achievements. Scotland beats most, if not all the Slavic states on an individual basis.

most, yes. But there are some that stand out.

[Albion]

Ireland? really? think of Chopin, Copernicus, Mickiewicz, the list goes on.

How about Christianity? Ireland was very important in re-establishing it in Northern Europe and sent missionaries everywhere to convert pagan lands.
The Irish have other stuff going for them that I can post, but I'm not doing a long post now.

[RussiaPrussia]

Yeah, but it hasn't really spread it outside of its region like say France, England or even Scotland and Ireland. Besides, don't go humble on me regarding Scottish achievements. Scotland beats most, if not all the Slavic states on an individual basis.

Russia beats most European states on individual level lol

[Wolf]

Ireland? really? think of Chopin, Copernicus, Mickiewicz, the list goes on.

Chopin was half-French and Copernicus an ethinc German.

[Aunt Hilda]

Chopin was half-French and Copernicus an ethinc German.

still subjects of the polish crown.

[Wolf]

still subjects of the polish crown.

Still born into a German-speaking family in a German-speaking city.

By the way, this question is completely off-topic.

[Albion]

still subjects of the polish crown.

We're subject to the British crown which is ruled by a German monarchy, are we German?

[Aunt Hilda]

We're subject to the British crown which is ruled by a German monarchy, are we German?

the British crown is only a shadow of its former self, hardly comparable to the polish monarchy of the past.

especially before the Rise of nationalism in Europe.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rise_of_nationalism_in_Europe)