orangepulp's grandmothers FTDNA results

[orangepulp]

Finally got her results, now waiting for my grandfathers.

Population Finder:

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6255/ftdnagm.png

A question I asked to the admin of the Armenian DNA project:


''I was looking at her population finder and it is: Adygei, Druze, Iranian, Jewish

I am surprised by Iranian, Jewish and Druze. So this means her ancestors are from the countries that are listed?''

His reply:


''Regarding the Adygei, Druze, etc. ancestry, you are not the only one to be puzzled by it. Be reassured, you do not have any Adygei, Druze or Iranian ancestry. Until now, there was no Armenian reference group with which to compare the results of people tested. Due to this absence, Armenians are automatically classified in the reference groups closest to Armenians, often in this " Jewish, Druze, Iranian or Adygei" reference group. (There was a study of these populations a few years ago, and the reference group was constituted based on that research.)

This should soon disappear as we have constituted an Armenian reference group and transmitted it to FTDNA. They should soon upload it, and Armenians will hopefully soon stop being classified as "Jewish, Druze, Palestinian or Adygei."

Eurogenes K36

#PopulationPercent

1North_Caucasian23,47%
2East_Med18,47%
3Armenian15,12%
4West_Caucasian13,21%
5Near_Eastern6,30%
6Arabian5,51%
7Italian5,36%
8South_Central_Asian3,09%
9East_Balkan2,91%
10West_Med2,60%
11Iberian2,41%
12Basque1,51%


JTest


#PopulationPercent

1WEST_ASIAN36,65%
2EAST_MED31,48%
3WEST_MED8,63%
4MIDDLE_EASTERN6,89%
5ATLANTIC5,45%
6ASHKENAZI4,01%
7EAST_EURO3,24%
8NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO1,57%
9SIBERIAN1,43%
10SOUTH_ASIAN0,67%

Using 1 population approximation:

1 Armenian @ 8.472
2 TR @ 11.562
3 Kurdish @ 13.884
4 Assyrian @ 14.994
5 GE @ 15.871
6 IR @ 16.009
7 Mandean @ 19.033
8 Lezgin @ 23.670
9 IQ @ 26.756
10 GR @ 26.800
78 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:

1 50% Assyrian +50% GE @ 6.897
2 50% Armenian +50% GE @ 7.308
3 50% GE +50% TR @ 7.523
4 50% GE +50% Mandean @ 8.345
5 50% Armenian +50% Armenian @ 8.472
6 50% Armenian +50% TR @ 8.753
7 50% GE +50% GR @ 9.474
8 50% GE +50% Kurdish @ 9.713
9 50% Armenian +50% Kurdish @ 9.875
10 50% Armenian +50% Lezgin @ 10.287

EUTest

#PopulationPercent

1WEST_ASIAN37,24%
2EAST_MED32,52%
3WEST_MED9,13%
4MIDDLE_EASTERN7,62%
5ATLANTIC5,98%
6EAST_EURO3,49%
7NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO1,85%
8SIBERIAN1,46%
9SOUTH_ASIAN0,70%


Using 1 population approximation:

1 Armenian @ 8.284
2 TR @ 10.973
3 Kurdish @ 13.915
4 Assyrian @ 15.112
5 GE @ 15.867
6 IR @ 16.155
7 Mandean @ 19.101
8 Lezgin @ 24.000
9 GR @ 26.565
10 IQ @ 26.748
78 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:

1 50% Assyrian +50% GE @ 6.910
2 50% Armenian +50% GE @ 7.122
3 50% GE +50% TR @ 7.410
4 50% GE +50% Mandean @ 8.266
5 50% Armenian +50% Armenian @ 8.284
6 50% Armenian +50% TR @ 8.380
7 50% GE +50% GR @ 9.114
8 50% GE +50% Kurdish @ 9.710
9 50% Armenian +50% Kurdish @ 9.794
10 50% GE +50% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 10.253


Eurogenes K13

#PopulationPercent

1Caucasus39,90%
2Mediterranean21,80%
3West Central Asian18,23%
4Southwest Asian8,86%
5North European7,67%
6North Eurasian2,08%
7South Asian0,89%
8Pygmy0,48%
9Amerindian0,08%

Dodecad K12b

#PopulationPercent

1Caucasus51,03%
2Gedrosia16,79%
3Atlantic_Med11,59%
4Southwest_Asian11,17%
5North_European6,16%
6Siberian1,99%
7Northwest_African1,28%

Using 1 population approximation:

1 Turks @ 6.903
2 Armenian @ 6.970
3 Armenians_15 @ 7.129
4 Turkish @ 7.810
5 Azerbaijan_Jews @ 9.366
6 Georgia_Jews @ 9.397
7 Armenians @ 9.544
8 Assyrian @ 10.033
9 Uzbekistan_Jews @ 10.964
10 Iranian_Jews @ 14.117

Using 2 populations approximation:

1 50% Armenians_15 +50% Turkish @ 2.630
2 50% Armenian +50% Turks @ 2.679
3 50% Armenian +50% Turkish @ 2.863
4 50% Armenians_15 +50% Turks @ 2.994
5 50% Armenians +50% Turks @ 3.509
6 50% Armenians +50% Turkish @ 3.933
7 50% Azerbaijan_Jews +50% Turkish @ 4.158
8 50% Assyrian +50% Turkish @ 4.572
9 50% Azerbaijan_Jews +50% Turks @ 4.676
10 50% Georgia_Jews +50% Turkish @ 4.764

[Vesuvian Sky]

Cool idea getting your grandmom's DNA done OP!;):cool:

And also great question to bring up to that one admin, often times we forget the concept of reference populations and how people in a certain geographic location will often share similar autosomal characteristics with different ethnicities.

[orangepulp]

Cool idea getting your grandmom's DNA done OP!;):cool:

And also great question to bring up to that one admin, often times we forget the concept of reference populations and how people in a certain geographic location will often share similar autosomal characteristics with different ethnicities.
I was actually surprised when I first saw her results because none of my DNA or my aunts DNA results suggest anything Iranian, Jewish or Druze, you can even see that through my grandmothers admix and oracle results.
Lack of West Asian samples on FTDNA make Turks, Armenians and other North West Asians score Druze, Iranian, Adygei, Jewish cause they are the closest samples they have to the West Asians. Admin said that will be fixed soon and we will see a better picture.

[Vesuvian Sky]

I was actually surprised when I first saw her results because none of my DNA or my aunts DNA results suggest anything Iranian, Jewish or Druze, you can even see that through my grandmothers admix and oracle results.
Lack of West Asian samples on FTDNA make Turks, Armenians and other North West Asians score Druze, Iranian, Adygei, Jewish cause they are the closest samples they have to the West Asians. Admin said that will be fixed soon and we will see a better picture.

FTDNA results are rather general as well I find and sometimes, depending on their margin or error, it leaves you questioning things more.

The third party calculators for the most part, are really good and can help out here quite a bit. But its always good to submit the results to as many different calcs/tests as one can.

Are you going to get a McDonald's BGA for her?:)

[Onur]

His reply:

''Regarding the Adygei, Druze, etc. ancestry, you are not the only one to be puzzled by it. Be reassured, you do not have any Adygei, Druze or Iranian ancestry. Until now, there was no Armenian reference group with which to compare the results of people tested. Due to this absence, Armenians are automatically classified in the reference groups closest to Armenians, often in this " Jewish, Druze, Iranian or Adygei" reference group. (There was a study of these populations a few years ago, and the reference group was constituted based on that research.)

This should soon disappear as we have constituted an Armenian reference group and transmitted it to FTDNA. They should soon upload it, and Armenians will hopefully soon stop being classified as "Jewish, Druze, Palestinian or Adygei."
Afaik, Turkish people also suffering from this problem in these databases because there is not enough Turkish reference group, as big as to make an impact in their statistics.

Your grandmother is also suffering this problem but yet you apply your questions to the "Armenian DNA project" group anyway.

Thats exactly why i don't trust none of these so-called "ethnicity finder" databases. They need to have large databases with people who has known ancestral roots for all the ethnic groups but they lack this for many.


imho orangepulp, you are just chasing ghosts.

[orangepulp]

Afaik, Turkish people also suffering from this problem in these databases because there is not enough Turkish reference group, as big as to make an impact in their statistics.

Your grandmother is also suffering this problem but yet you apply your questions to the "Armenian DNA project" group anyway.

Thats exactly why i don't trust none of these so-called "ethnicity finder" databases. They need to have large databases with people who has known ancestral roots for all the ethnic groups but they lack this for many.


imho orangepulp, you are just chasing ghosts.

For FTDNA there aren't enough reference samples but amature DNA projects such as Eurogenes and Dodecad have reference samples from Turks and other West Asians and thats why everyone sends them their "raw data" and uses their calculators to compare.

I have direct contact with one of the admins in the Armenian DNA project because he is the one who offered to test my maternal family, he has tested other North Eastern Turks as well, especially from Camlikaya. He is also aware of the way FTDNA functions and I don't think there is a Turkish project on FTDNA to ask. My grandparents are part of the Hemshin project of which he is in charge of.

[orangepulp]

Are you going to get a McDonald's BGA for her?:)

I sent him the raw data but no responce yet.

[orangepulp]

Reply from Dr. Mcdonald:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9349/281947autosomalo36resul.png

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/9349/281947autosomalo36resul.png

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9349/281947autosomalo36resul.png

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9349/281947autosomalo36resul.png


Most likely fit is 57.1% (+- 25.7%) Mideast (various subcontinents)
and 42.9% (+- 25.7%) Mideast (all Caucasus Area)
which is 100% total Mideast

The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
most likely at the top

Turkish= 0.315 Armenian= 0.685 or
Armenian= 0.828 Adygei= 0.172

Second most likely fit is 5.7% (+- 0.6%) Europe (all Northeast Europe)
and 94.3% (+- 0.6%) Mideast (all Caucasus Area)

The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
most likely at the top

Chuvash= 0.064 Armenian= 0.936 or
Russian= 0.056 Armenian= 0.944 or
Finland= 0.050 Armenian= 0.950

A custom fit gives:

Jewish 0.1696 Bedouin_Nor 0.1651 Georgian 0.6653 or
Jewish 0.0305 Turkish 0.2958 Armenian 0.6738 or
Bedouin_Nor 0.0259 Turkish 0.3218 Armenian 0.6523 or
Sephardic 0.0425 Turkish 0.3014 Armenian 0.6560 or
Moroccan 0.0129 Turkish 0.3130 Armenian 0.6741 or
Mozabite 0.0099 Turkish 0.3120 Armenian 0.6781 or
Jewish 0.0858 Iranian 0.2824 Armenian 0.6318 or
Egyptian 0.0162 Turkish 0.3221 Armenian 0.6618 or
Bedouin_Sou 0.0062 Turkish 0.3231 Armenian 0.6707 or
Palestinian 0.0091 Turkish 0.3229 Armenian 0.6680 or
Turkish 0.3193 Cypriot 0.0144 Armenian 0.6663 or
Turkish 0.3179 Georgian 0.0089 Armenian 0.6732 or
Sicily 0.0002 Turkish 0.3200 Armenian 0.6799

which is Caucasus area but clearly not pure Armenian. Could be Kurd or
untypical Turkish, or perhaps Syria, or a mix.

See green spot on map.

Doug McDonald

I asked Dr. Mcdonald what's untypical Turkish about my grandmother and he said:


She is too far east in Turkey on the map, most real ordinary Turks are more central ... and test as “mostly” Turkish on my test, and no Armenian. She is a variation of eastern Anatolian/Armenian like people

[Vesuvian Sky]

Wow interesting results OP. Thanks for sharing. It looks like your grandmother has very indigenous/archaic east Anatolian/Caucus DNA traits.

[orangepulp]

Wow interesting results OP. Thanks for sharing. It looks like your grandmother has very indigenous/archaic east Anatolian/Caucus DNA traits.

Her daughter ( my aunt) is even more so than her.
I had my aunt tested via 23andme, see her Mcdonald results for comparison:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?68651-orangepulp-s-aunts-23andme-results/page5

[Instinct]

Interesting results, so your grandmother's ancestors were Armenians of Erzurum.

[orangepulp]

Interesting results, so your grandmother's ancestors were Armenians of Erzurum.
This is just a speculation, there is no known Armenian ancestry.