Why have People with Haplogroup N no solidarity with each other?

[RussiaPrussia]

http://imageshack.us/a/img18/7814/yhaplogroupsoftheworld1.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/2qluxvl.png

Why do we lack any support to each other? Russians feel more slavic and dont want to have any relations to other people with Haplogroup N. Finns arent proud to have it and feel more noridic along scandinavia. Baltics want to be either be just baltics or also scandinavian.

Turkic people who have it feel more turkic, even if central asians and turks dont have any haplogroup N left in them therefor they far far less related to yakuts and tatars than russians. And other uralic folks feel either connected to finnic and other uralic people.


Western countries on the other hand have huge solidarity, you can see they share the same massive haplogroup r1b and they often argue that thats is what defines being western, i read it often times. In general germans feel more connected to italy or spain if you ask them, you can see it at the eurozone they chose almost all western and southern countries, finland was the only exception. Sure since the euro crisis all of that has changed.

Finnish and baltics as well as russian have also often times to hear how they are viewed as asian because they have it, but we arent defending us each other if other us with this. And russian ethnic minorities almost all have it and they still feel more turanic or what ever there is. And swedish and other scandinavians look down on finnic people i have always recognized that. They dont view finland as part of scandinavia, despite that finland tried very hard being as western as possible adopting the euro and still holding swedish as national language.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/Skandinavism.jpg

I think its illusion if people think that culture or religion defines a people to their total extend. History has proven that genetics are more important than language and culture. Look at africa almost all of them spoke foreign european languages in the past but that didnt make them european and they broke up from their colonial masters.

Same for latin america. People spoke Portuguese and spanish since ever but so more different people immigrated and mixed with the old masters so less portugese and spanish the region has become and of course also broke away from colonialism. It is genetics what matters and defines a people.


So we should feel more connected because in western eyes we will be always different.

[Albion]

Are you seriously asking why Finns and Chukchi don't have any solidarity? Maybe vast geographical distances alone are enough?
And have you also considered that women carry haplogroups and genes too? So when a Eurpoid daddy mates with a Mongoloid mummy it doesn't lead to a Europoid baby.

Russians have more R1a than N anyway, it also occurs in India so why not solidarity with them? You're simply trying to downplay differences between Siberian peoples, Scandinavians and ethnic Russians to justify Russia in Siberia.

Your post is nonsense and childish, no one in the real world defines themselves by one gene that mutated thousands of years ago.

[Albion]

Why do we lack any support to each other? Russians feel more slavic and dont want to have any relations to other people with Haplogroup N. Finns arent proud to have it and feel more noridic along scandinavia. Baltics want to be either be just baltics or also scandinavian.

Because Russians are Slavic in culture and a large degree of ancestry, Finns have had a long history of interaction with Scandinavians and Balts have their own culture.


Turkic people who have it feel more turkic, even if central asians and turks dont have any haplogroup N left in them therefor they far far less related to yakuts and tatars than russians. And other uralic folks feel either connected to finnic and other uralic people.

Turkic people that have N feel more Turkic? How would you know what every Turkic is feeling?


Western countries on the other hand have huge solidarity, you can see they share the same massive haplogroup r1b and they often argue that thats is what defines being western, i read it often times. In general germans feel more connected to italy or spain if you ask them, you can see it at the eurozone they chose almost all western and southern countries, finland was the only exception. Sure since the euro crisis all of that has changed.

So why do Scandinavians with a lot of I1 feel Western then? It's not about R1b, it's about Germanic, Celtic and Romanic cultures and their interaction for centuries.


I think its illusion if people think that culture or religion defines a people to their total extend. History has proven that genetics are more important than language and culture.

Genetics makes a people, but culture defines them.


Look at africa almost all of them spoke foreign european languages in the past but that didnt make them european and they broke up from their colonial masters.

They still speak European languages now and try to emulate us. They're not Euro because the differences in genetics (their behaviour and intelligence among other traits) and culture are totally different.


Same for latin america. People spoke Portuguese and spanish since ever but so more different people immigrated and mixed with the old masters so less portugese and spanish the region has become and of course also broke away from colonialism. It is genetics what matters and defines a people.

Latin America is about as racially diverse as it gets and here you are talking about haplogroup solidarity there? You do know that in Mexico, most paternal lines are from Spain so R1b will be among the largest haplogroups there? That means by your logic they should feel European. Of course the female lines are Ameridian, so like I said earlier - you forgot about women.


So we should feel more connected because in western eyes we will be always different.

Speak for yourself, the differences are cultural.

[RussiaPrussia]

Are you seriously asking why Finns and Chukchi don't have any solidarity? Maybe vast geographical distances alone are enough?
yeah that much distance? All countries are bordering the baltic sea and the other people live all in russia.



Russians have more R1a than N anyway, it also occurs in India so why not solidarity with them? You're simply trying to downplay differences between Siberian peoples, Scandinavians and ethnic Russians to justify Russia in Siberia.

There are different kinds of R1as, R1a1a1 to R1a1a8

Haplogroup is more rarer and more diverse but i think the people are much more similar than eastern europeans to indians.


Your post is nonsense and childish, no one in the real world defines themselves by one gene that mutated thousands of years ago.

Jews do


Because Russians are Slavic in culture and a large degree of ancestry, Finns have had a long history of interaction with Scandinavians and Balts have their own culture.

Genetics makes a people, but culture defines them.

Speak for yourself, the differences are cultural.


And where coems culture from? It comes from genetics

Just as different bugs live different and behave different according to their culture so it is with humans which comes from genetics
http://www.holidaycheck.de/data/urlaubsbilder/images/17/1158107853.jpg

http://www.l-seifert.de/bilder-insekten/Marienkaefer-1.jpg






So why do Scandinavians with a lot of I1 feel Western then? It's not about R1b, it's about Germanic, Celtic and Romanic cultures and their interaction for centuries.

They feel more Scandinavian

[xajapa]

I would be curious to see how many Ns there are, worldwide. I imagine they are a fringe ( as in on the periphery, not as in 'strange or odd' :)) haplogroup. I bet the N haplogroup is few and far between, thus the lack of cohesion and unity.

[Sky earth]

Sorry but Haplogroup solidarity ist just LOL! Haplogroups make only a tiny percent of your gene. What the hell have Yakuts and Finns to do with each other except that both carry ancient Haplogroups like N?. Or what the hell have Kyrgyz people and Poles in common. Both carry predominatly R1a but they don't look nothing like each other. I can understand Autosomal DNA solidarity but Haplogroup solidarity sounds ridiculous.

[Albion]

yeah that much distance? All countries are bordering the baltic sea and the other people live all in russia.

Chuckchi border the Baltic? An ethnic group that live near the Berring straight near Alaska are from the Baltic?


Jews do

Jews are united by religion. Their haplogroups are diverse.


Sorry but Haplogroup solidarity ist just LOL! Haplogroups make only a tiny percent of your gene. What the hell have Yakuts and Finns to do with each other except that both carry ancient Haplogroups like N?. Or what the hell have Kyrgyz people and Poles in common. Both carry predominatly R1a but they don't look nothing like each other. I can understand Autosomal DNA solidarity but Haplogroup solidarity sounds ridiculous.

This is what I'm trying to tell young RussPrus.

[Aunt Hilda]

RussiaPrussia you have discussed this topic several times already...

[RussiaPrussia]

Chuckchi border the Baltic? An ethnic group that live near the Berring straight near Alaska are from the Baltic?



Jews are united by religion. Their haplogroups are diverse.


They live in russia, in the region live russians so they are familiar with baltic europeans for 300 years now. Jews are united by race, their religion is their race.


Jewish World, December 14, 1922: "The Jew remains a Jew even though he changes his religion; a Christian which would adopt the Jewish religion would not become a Jew, because the quality of a Jew is not in the religion but in the race. A Free-thinker and athiest always remains a Jew".



Rabbi Stephan S. Wise, Herald-Tribune, June 13, 1938: "Hitler was right in one thing. He calls the Jewish people a race, and we are a race".


The Jewish World, September 22, 1915: "No one would ever dream of claiming that the son of a Japanese or an Indian is an Englishman under the pretext that he was born in England; the same argument applies to the Jews".


Professor Albert Einstein, quoted in 'Collier's', November 26, 1938: "Anti-semitism is nothing but the antagonistic attitude produced in the non-Jew by the Jewish group...The Jewish group has thrived on opposition and on the antagonism it has forever met in the world...The Jew who abandons his faith...remains a Jew".

[Dacul]

Dude,how Migla got senior moderator?
:rofl:

Migla,let him talk,he did not broke any forum rules here....

[Szegedist]

Dumb thread by RussiaPrussia is incredibly dumb.

Real question is, why does RussiaPrussia share more solidarity with humans than he does with monkeys, since he is closer to the latter genetically?

[Dacul]

Let me see,now this forum of "free speech" is having some "moderators" who tells you which thread is proper and which thread is not proper.
:picard2:

[Aunt Hilda]

Dude,how Migla got senior moderator?
:rofl:

Migla,let him talk,he did not broke any forum rules here....

I know, i didn't close the thread or anything.

[Dacul]

Dumb thread by RussiaPrussia is incredibly dumb.

Real question is, why does RussiaPrussia share more solidarity with humans than he does with monkeys, since he is closer to the latter genetically?

He just asked a question,what is your problem about this?
I also thinks Russia,Finland ,Estonia,Latvia and Lithuania native people should have good relations between them.
And you know there also some Finnish wise people,who thinks same.

[Dacul]

I know, i didn't close the thread or anything.

Well you know ,just say something to the subject of the thread and stop miss-using the fact you are moderator.
You write with red,which is a moderator thingy,because you would not like Latvia people to have good relations with Russia people.

[RussiaPrussia]

Dude,how Migla got senior moderator?
:rofl:

Migla,let him talk,he did not broke any forum rules here....

yeah i really think its unfair, i have only talked about Hablogroup N with different direction. Once when i pointed out that having hablogroup N can be said that russians are native siberians as they probably mixed with them, the other when i questioned why russians are supposed to be not tyrannic according to turks despite having huge portion haplogroup N. Like genetics and there for million years of history are so easy to fit into one thread.

[Szegedist]

yeah i really think its unfair, i have only talked about Hablogroup N with different direction. Once when i pointed out that having hablogroup N can be said that russians are native siberians as they probably mixed with them, the other when i questioned why russians are supposed to be not tyrannic according to turks despite having huge portion haplogroup N. Like genetics and there for million years of history are so easy to fit into one thread.

I dont think you know what you are talking about.

Haplogroup =/= culture, nations, identity, phenotype, just about anything

[Aunt Hilda]

Well you know ,just say something to the subject of the thread and stop miss-using the fact you are moderator.
You write with red,which is a moderator thingy,because you would not like Latvia people to have good relations with Russia people.

hun, he's free to talk about whatever he pleases.
I just pointing out how ridiculous his premiss is. besides, he actually has talked about this several times already.

[Dacul]

Finland,Estonia,Latvia,Lithuania,North Russia are quite high on N-m178 subclade of HG N.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_N-M231#N-M178

[Dacul]

As a fact,on genetics,Finns,Estonians and Latvians/Lithuanians are much more closed to Russians,than to any Western Europeans.
Which shows that the current politics followed by the leaders of these countries (Latvia,Lithuania,Estonia) is wrong.
Is true that is was not good for Estonia during communism,neither for Lithuania or Latvia,but times changed,now the situation with Russia is different.
Finland did not joined NATO,I am asking,why?

[Aunt Hilda]

As a fact,on genetics,Finns,Estonians and Latvians/Lithuanians are much more closed to Russians,than to any Western Europeans.
Which shows that the current politics followed by the leaders of these countries (Latvia,Lithuania,Estonia) is wrong.
Is true that is was not good for Estonia during communism,neither for Lithuania or Latvia,but times changed,now the situation with Russia is different.
Finland did not joined NATO,I am asking,why?

?????????

since when do Haplogroups determine politics?

[Dacul]

European Union - fanatic ultra-capitalist organization which actually leads countries of Europe to ruin,same with Europe nations,not to prosperity.
Nordic countries should leave this union as fast as they can,until they are not forced to start "austerity" and gave up to their social politics and get their economy ruined also (and normally,their population lead into disaster).
And NATO is just an organization made to defend ultra-capitalism.
Nordic countries that joined NATO (Norway&Denmark) should also leave it.
It is just the trick to scare Nordic countries and Baltic countries and Estonia with "Russia will make you bad" and take them into European Union and in NATO.

[Szegedist]

?????????

since when do Haplogroups determine politics?

you are talking to Dacul.. lol
RussiaPrussia + Dacul...= :laugh:

[Aunt Hilda]

European Union - fanatic ultra-capitalist organization which actually leads countries of Europe to ruin,same with Europe nations,not to prosperity.
Nordic countries should leave this union as fast as they can,until they are not forced to start "austerity" and gave up to their social politics and get their economy ruined also (and normally,their population lead into disaster).
And NATO is just an organization made to defend ultra-capitalism.
Nordic countries that joined NATO (Norway&Denmark) should also leave it.
It is just the trick to scare Nordic countries and Baltic countries and Estonia with "Russia will make you bad" and take them into European Union and in NATO.

is that so, http://theaviationist.com/2013/04/22/backfire-sweden/#.UbTvcfnVCAg,
http://yle.fi/uutiset/russian_plane_violates_finnish_airspace/6639476

this is cold war tactics, and most certainly wont be appreciated by any reasonable neighbour

[Dacul]

Is not only N-M178 HG (and R1a1,in case of Latvia/Lithuania and Estonia) common but is also closed autosomal genetics,between these people.
I know Russians here are pan-slavic,but Russia have too much N-M178 to be slavs.
Besides,Russia does not really seems interested in pan-slavism now,but rather in promoting good relations with their neighbors.
(and Finland,Estonia,Latvia,Lithuania are all neighbors to Russia).
Also these things with autosomal genetics,haplogroups and so on are getting to people and people start to take these into account also.

[Aunt Hilda]

Is not only N-M178 HG (and R1a1,in case of Latvia/Lithuania and Estonia) common but is also closed autosomal genetics,between these people.
I know Russians here are pan-slavic,but Russia have too much N-M178 to be slavs.
Besides,Russia does not really seems interested in pan-slavism now,but rather in promoting good relations with their neighbors.
simulating attacks on them might not be the best way to do it.

[Mans not hot]

I know Russians here are pan-slavic
Like who? I could mention Russian members, but I won't say it anyway.

[Dacul]

Ye,because that source is so credible.

Is said that it did not actually violated Finnish air space,it was forced to move more closed to Finnish borders because of bad weather and it was accompanied by a Finnish military airplane during this time:
http://www.itar-tass.com/en/c154/734216.html

[Mans not hot]

You should quoting members' posts because we have no idea who you are referring to.

[Aunt Hilda]

Ye,because that source is so credible.
http://www.itar-tass.com/en/c154/734216.html
Is said that it did not actually violated Finnish air space,it was forced to move more closed to Finnish borders because of bad weather and it was accompanied by a Finnish military airplane during this time:
http://www.itar-tass.com/en/c154/734216.html
I was talking about this http://www.businessinsider.com/david-cenciotti-russia-simulated-a-massive-aerial-attack-2013-4

besides, Russia is known for doing this all the time.
do I have to remind you how ''a few Russian patriots'' launched a giant cyber attack on Estonia?

[Accountant]

RP you are either the greatest troll or dumbest fuck I've ever encountered in the internet.

[Dacul]

I was talking about this http://www.businessinsider.com/david-cenciotti-russia-simulated-a-massive-aerial-attack-2013-4

besides, Russia is known for doing this all the time.
do I have to remind you how ''a few Russian patriots'' launched a giant cyber attack on Estonia?
If Russia would want to attack Sweden,they could,Sweden is not in NATO yet.
And 6 airplanes,considering how many airplanes Russia has,is not "massive attack".
They did not crossed Sweden airspace,they just flew over neutral waters.
No idea what these people are saying,that they simulated attacks in Stockholm,because is not written they flew over Stockholm.

[Aunt Hilda]

If Russia would want to attack Sweden,they could,Sweden is not in NATO yet.
And 6 airplanes,considering how many airplanes Russia has,is not "massive attack".
They did not crossed Sweden airspace,they just flew over neutral waters.
No idea what these people are saying,that they simulated attacks in Stockholm,because is not written they flew over Stockholm.
:picard1: you cannot be this ignorant.

[Dacul]

No,I can not be manipulated by the absurdities some are telling.
Why would Russia want to attack Sweden?
:rofl:
The absurdity is really at high levels,these days,at some people.

[Aunt Hilda]

No,I can not be manipulated by the absurdities some are telling.
Why would Russia want to attack Sweden?
:rofl:
The absurdity is really at high levels,these days,at some people.
:picard1:
it's not about attacking Sweden, it's about keeping the fear of NATO live and kicking in Russia.

[Albion]

They live in russia, in the region live russians so they are familiar with baltic europeans for 300 years now. Jews are united by race, their religion is their race.

By this logic, Australian aborigines have a lot in common with Brits because they've lived alongside them for a long time now. :picard2:


yeah i really think its unfair, i have only talked about Hablogroup N with different direction. Once when i pointed out that having hablogroup N can be said that russians are native siberians as they probably mixed with them, the other when i questioned why russians are supposed to be not tyrannic according to turks despite having huge portion haplogroup N. Like genetics and there for million years of history are so easy to fit into one thread.

Modern humans haven't been in Russia for millions of years.


As a fact,on genetics,Finns,Estonians and Latvians/Lithuanians are much more closed to Russians,than to any Western Europeans.
Which shows that the current politics followed by the leaders of these countries (Latvia,Lithuania,Estonia) is wrong.
Is true that is was not good for Estonia during communism,neither for Lithuania or Latvia,but times changed,now the situation with Russia is different.
Finland did not joined NATO,I am asking,why?

Finland didn't join NATO because it agreed with USSR to stay neutral to preserve its independence and was extremely cautious in its relations with the USSR.
As for the Baltic states - yeah, Russians showed how good haplogroup N solidarity was there... :picard2:


European Union - fanatic ultra-capitalist organization which actually leads countries of Europe to ruin,same with Europe nations,not to prosperity.
Nordic countries should leave this union as fast as they can,until they are not forced to start "austerity" and gave up to their social politics and get their economy ruined also (and normally,their population lead into disaster).
And NATO is just an organization made to defend ultra-capitalism.
Nordic countries that joined NATO (Norway&Denmark) should also leave it.
It is just the trick to scare Nordic countries and Baltic countries and Estonia with "Russia will make you bad" and take them into European Union and in NATO.

The EU isn't ultra capitalist. It's very protectionist and many of its regulations kill business.

[Jackson]

Because your average Russian or Finn doesn't know or care about what their haplogroup is, and cares even less about whether or not there is someone thousands of miles away that happens to share a similar one. It's just not important in everyday life. I think haplogroup factionism must probably be resigned to the darkest fringes of the nerd corner. I'm really interested in all this yet sharing a haplogroup with someone is not going to make me feel closer to them in any significant way, especially politically.

[RussiaPrussia]

By this logic, Australian aborigines have a lot in common with Brits because they've lived alongside them for a long time now. :picard2:
did aussies mixed with them? No



Finland didn't join NATO because it agreed with USSR to stay neutral to preserve its independence and was extremely cautious in its relations with the USSR.
As for the Baltic states - yeah, Russians showed how good haplogroup N solidarity was there... :picard2:
Baltics neither show solidarity to russians living in their country now



RP you are either the greatest troll or dumbest fuck I've ever encountered in the internet.
yeah yeah look whos talking (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/group.php?groupid=79), nice group you joined there. And Karl is there too of course. :picard1:
Funny thing is finns and russians have most east asian admixture and similar high IQ probably (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?80825-East-Asian-and-Russian-Students-are-the-smartest-according-to-a-study).
http://imageshack.us/a/img577/3525/gr1zi.jpg
And you glorify nazims you would be first one who would be killed by germans if russia would have lost the war with hitler. So more i see this thread so more i realize its pointless to even talk about stuff like that, i have more change in convincing koreans or chinese having together solidarity than with fins and baltics.

[Aunt Hilda]

So more i see this thread so more i realize its pointless to even talk about stuff like that

thank god for that

[RussiaPrussia]

Because your average Russian or Finn doesn't know or care about what their haplogroup is, and cares even less about whether or not there is someone thousands of miles away that happens to share a similar one. It's just not important in everyday life. I think haplogroup factionism must probably be resigned to the darkest fringes of the nerd corner. I'm really interested in all this yet sharing a haplogroup with someone is not going to make me feel closer to them in any significant way, especially politically.

of course they care, look at their worldview its all about Russia, Russia here Russia there if you meet fins and baltics nothing else they care and talk about. Its their subconscious affinity towards russia which is negative but they do care about and it seems russians care about baltics and finland too because these countries are related to each other.

East Asians also do hate each other doesnt change the fact they are related to each other, because love/hate is the same thing subconscious which is caring for someone or something not caring is the opposite of it. Fins and baltics are just disappointed that Russia which was a relative treated them so bad thats where the hate comes from.

Swedes and germans were way worse in the baltic and finland when they ruled, just look at swedish language its still official language in finland so their colonialism still holds even today in finland. Baltics were ruled like 400 years by germans or so and some period of russia is worse for them than any colonialism by the germans who wiped out prussians and forced baptization on them. But being stabbed by your own brother is worse than by a foreigner so i can understand to some degree tough they are not better to their own related minorities now.
But you cant change genetics just as you cant change your family thats why these countries will never stop caring about us, even lithuenians caring about Russia all the time despite having no russian minority and not bordering next to mainland russia. Anyways i am done with this thread.

[Albion]

Because your average Russian or Finn doesn't know or care about what their haplogroup is, and cares even less about whether or not there is someone thousands of miles away that happens to share a similar one. It's just not important in everyday life. I think haplogroup factionism must probably be resigned to the darkest fringes of the nerd corner. I'm really interested in all this yet sharing a haplogroup with someone is not going to make me feel closer to them in any significant way, especially politically.

Get outta here filthy haplogroup I barbarian!


of course they care, look at their worldview its all about Russia, Russia here Russia there if you meet fins and baltics nothing else they care and talk about. Its their subconscious affinity towards russia which is negative but they do care about and it seems russians care about baltics and finland too because these countries are related to each other.

That's because Russia worries them, not because they feel an affinity to it. They both hate Russia, get over it. The suggestion that there is some instinctive attraction to Russia is dumb.

[Jackson]

of course they care, look at their worldview its all about Russia, Russia here Russia there if you meet fins and baltics nothing else they care and talk about. Its their subconscious affinity towards russia which is negative but they do care about and it seems russians care about baltics and finland too because these countries are related to each other.

They can't care about their haplogroup if they don't know what it is. Here the majority of people don't know what a haplogroup is, it's probably similar in Russia and Finland...

[Jackson]

Get outta here filthy haplogroup I barbarian!



That's because Russia worries them, not because they feel an affinity to it. They both hate Russia, get over it. The suggestion that there is some instinctive attraction to Russia is dumb.

'I' was (probably) here before R1b suckaaa! xD

Yes i cannot see that taking off in a big way, or at least not for a century or two.

[Albion]

They can't care about their haplogroup if they don't know what it is. Here the majority of people don't know what a haplogroup is, it's probably similar in Russia and Finland...

Most Russians are R1a anyway, not N. RussPruss thinks 1/4 = 50% though so is hard to reason with.

[Accountant]

And you glorify nazims you would be first one who would be killed by germans if russia would have lost the war with hitler. So more i see this thread so more i realize its pointless to even talk about stuff like that, i have more change in convincing koreans or chinese having together solidarity than with fins and baltics.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/010/669/421566_110052819134743_1827862103_n.jpg

[Serpent Mist]

For curiosity's sake, how many members belong to hg N? Would be interesting to see if their political outlook or worldview reflect any pan-inner Eurasian cooperative views.

[Serpent Mist]

Ok, just realised this is in the mtDna forum yet Y Dna hg N is the topic of the thread O_o