Citizens of 108 countries live in Lithuania

[Baluarte]

According to the data of 2011 Population and Housing Census, citizens of 108 countries lived in Lithuania, 99% of residents had the nationality of the Republic of Lithuania, 94% were born in Lithuania, 205,900 had been living abroad for one year or longer, reports LETA/ELTA, referring to Statistics Lithuania.

According to the data of Census, 2.864 million of Lithuania's residents were born in Lithuania. 51.6% of them were born in the cities, 42.5% were born in the rural area. 179,600 or 5.9% of residents of Lithuania were born abroad. The majority of them were born in Russia, Belarus, Ukraine and Latvia. 72.4% of (according to the data of 2001 Census 67.6%) Ukrainians living in Lithuania, 70.6% (66.7%) Byelorussians, 36.3% (37.1%) Russians, 9% (9.4%) Polish residents of Lithuania were born in other countries. Lithuanians who were not born in Lithuania made up 1.8% (in 2001 – 1.4%) of all the residents who were born abroad.

The residents of Lithuania live a settled way of life. 93.4% of residents indicated that a year before the census they had lived in the same place, whereas1.8% had lived in the other place in Lithuania, 0.5% had lived abroad, and 4.3% residents did not indicate where they had lived a year before the Census.

The majority of the residents who had lived abroad a year before the Census indicated the United Kingdom as the place of their residence (5,900 or 36.8% of all settled residents of Lithuania who had lived abroad), Ireland was indicated by 1,800 or 11.1%, Norway was indicated by 1,600 or 10.1%, and Germany by 900 or 5.4%.


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Wow, that is some immigration difference with Western Europe.

[ABest]

Is that supposed to be less or more than normal for the North? I've heard that the North is rather multicultural in general nowadays.

[Baluarte]

99% of residents had the nationality of the Republic of Lithuania, 94% were born in Lithuania,

That's far far lower compared to Western Europe.
The Baltic countries don't have the same immigration problem as the Scandinavian ones.

In Tallinn over a period of 2 weeks, I saw 3 black men, all tourists that didn't speak the language.

[Bandzakovsky]

Haha in my city Kosice in poor east slovakia i saw in 2 weeks 4 black men, but they live there, but ca. 30 times i saw in 2 weeks arabs.
In capital Bratislava i saw much more black men or near east muslims. In 2 hours i saw ca. 6 black man 10 muslims and ca. 30 asians.
But the immigration begins only now, because they need workers, for example indian technic specialists or kosovar factory workers. And the gypsies with 90% unemployment are dont qualified to get a job.

[Skomand]

With East-Prussia gone and surrounded by Slavs who they hate, Lithuania is really in a shitty geo-political and economic situation now. In 2004 Germany closed its doors to Eastern immigration. That measure was directed against Poles, but also impacted Lithuanians.

[member]

With East-Prussia gone and surrounded by Slavs who they hate, Lithuania is really in a shitty geo-political and economic situation now. In 2004 Germany closed its doors to Eastern immigration. That measure was directed against Poles, but also impacted Lithuanians.

Do you think Lithuanians would have flooded Germany more so than UK?

[Skomand]

I don't know. There was the Soviet propaganda against Germany of the past which would have had an influence on their choice. But leaving for Britain or Ireland is more of an emigration than travelling to Germany would have been. I think ties with Germany might have been more beneficial.

[lI]

There was the Soviet propaganda against Germany of the past which would have had an influence on their choice.
But leaving for Britain or Ireland is more of an emigration than travelling to Germany would have been. I think ties with Germany might have been more beneficial.You are probably right about ties with Germany being more beneficial than those with UK, if we're talking about economics.
However, antipathy towards Germans is not a new thing that developed due to Soviet propaganda, it has very old traditions in Lithuania's regions which formerly bordered East Prussia.
Even the most archaic layers of Sudovian (Suvalkiečių/Sudūvių) folklore is full of songs, sayings, proverbs like this one:

Sun, dear mother, come onto us, onto us!
Clouds with black lining, onto Prussians ye go, onto Prussians!
There you will get nice towels...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oJfqALjQx0

Here's another Sudovian folk song mentioning flies coming from Prussia drinking vodka:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kwo7bUXfX8

[Baluarte]

Of course it's not new.
You have to remember the country that was most interested in partitioning Poland-Lithuania was indeed Prussia.

[Skomand]

Of course it's not new.
You have to remember the country that was most interested in partitioning Poland-Lithuania was indeed Prussia.
I don't think the partition of Poland - this is what it is called - affected Lithuanian peasantry negatively. On the contrary, I have seen circulars in which the Prussian authorities ask Lithuanian peasants to report to the Prussian administration directly if they suffer confiscations by Poles. These circulars were in Lithuanian language, something that Lithuanians could not expect from Poles.

[lI]

I don't think the partition of Poland - this is what it is called - affected Lithuanian peasantry negatively.The first partition happened before the May constitution hence the correct name is the partition of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth while calling it simply "the partition of Poland" is factually incorrect.

And you are forgetting that only Sudovia (i.e. a subset of Lithuanians in whose folklore Prussians are viewed the most negatively) was snatched by Prussia, the rest of Lithuania was annexed by Russia. You think that Tsarist occupation was very beneficial to Lithuania? With the press ban and all?

On the other hand, specifically due to this occupation by Prussia, Sudovian folk traditions are the least archaic of all Lithuanians (the folk costume, the songs and dances), so the effect of being in Prussian-German sphere of influence on traditional Lithuanian culture can be considered very negative - for the economical side it's the opposite but wealth isn't the end of all IMO.

[Roy]

How much Poles and Belarussians in census?

[Skomand]

The first partition happened before the May constitution hence the correct name is the partition of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth while calling it simply "the partition of Poland" is factually incorrect.

Yes, but with the Lithuanian nobility polonized, Lithuania becames a quantite negligeable in the name:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Partitions_of_Poland_german.png



And you are forgetting that only Sudovia (i.e. a subset of Lithuanians in whose folklore Prussians are viewed the most negatively) was snatched by Prussia, the rest of Lithuania was annexed by Russia. You think that Tsarist occupation was very beneficial to Lithuania? With the press ban and all?
We were talking about the Prussian context, I made that clear with the afore mentioned circular in Lithuanian.


On the other hand, specifically due to this occupation by Prussia, Sudovian folk traditions are the least archaic of all Lithuanians (the folk costume, the songs and dances), so the effect of being in Prussian-German sphere of influence on traditional Lithuanian culture can be considered very negative - for the economical side it's the opposite but wealth isn't the end of all IMO.

Prosperity is everything, it brings education. The prosperous farmers of the Suvalkija wanted their sons to be educated. There - under the influence of Prussian-Lithuanian culture - the XXX-Lithuanian national revival started.
The XXX stands for a word that you don't want me to use. I won't use it because I don't want to antagonize you.

[member]

I don't know.There was the Soviet propaganda against Germany of the past which would have had an influence on their choice. But leaving for Britain or Ireland is more of an emigration than travelling to Germany would have been. I think ties with Germany might have been more beneficial.

I doubt it. Sure, we learn at schools and from older family members about the contacts with Germans but I haven't heard such an argument coming from a Lithuanian.

Having to learn German language is a much greater barrier. Everyone has to study English at school, so most young people know the language at least a little bit. German might be a secondary foreign language if you choose it over Russian. Though it is harder to study German than the other two languages for obvious reasons. On the other hand, open borders would have had produced larger classes of those preferring German. There is quite a difference between knowing that the borders are open right now and that they are going to be opened some 8 years later. If you work in Lithuania, knowing Russian is more useful and it is easier to learn it than German.

Btw, Skomand, would like to inform us about your progress in studying Lithuanian? I'm interested.

[Skomand]

Btw, Skomand, would like to inform us about your progress in studying Lithuanian? I'm interested.

I haven't progressed much and I'm still struggling to find the method that fits me best.
I can do sentences like this: "Mano tevas dabar dirba universiteto bibliotekoja." I would need an exercise book that slightly varies this sentence (other cases etc) into for instance:"Siandien jis dirba namie." And so on.
To make it stick in my memory I use a repeat player.

There is a website that has this approach: LITHUANIAN OUT LOUD. The problem is that whenever the English speaker intervenes with his translation into English, this spoils my concentration.

I think you can't become an active user of Lithuanian via written texts or grammars alone(I do have about 10 Lithuanian grammars now, including Prussian ones). It must be learned by listening and reproducing the sounds. The representation of sounds in letters I find sometimes unfortunate.

The structure of Lithuanian does not seem too difficult to understand. The problem is the vocabulary that is not transparent, while when I do Spanish it all flows from what I know in Latin and French.
One of the first words I learnt was pasivaikščioti . When you see it first you might want to run out of your Lithuanian language course classroom. When you hear 10 times repeatedly it starts sucking in.

[Skomand]

On the other hand, specifically due to this occupation by Prussia, Sudovian folk traditions are the least archaic of all Lithuanians (the folk costume, the songs and dances), so the effect of being in Prussian-German sphere of influence on traditional Lithuanian culture can be considered very negative - for the economical side it's the opposite but wealth isn't the end of all IMO.


Here is the circular of 1795, in German and in Lithuanian. Did Poles or later Russians ever use Lithuanian as administrative language?

If not, then this is really something that must have boosted Lithuanian self-awareness.

http://hostarea.de/out.php/i301267_bial1.jpg (http://hostarea.de/show.php/301267_bial1.jpg.html)



http://hostarea.de/out.php/i301268_bial2.jpg (http://hostarea.de/show.php/301268_bial2.jpg.html)

[lI]

How much Poles and Belarussians in census?Poles - 6.6%
Belarusians - 1.2%
Lithuanians - 84.1%

That's based on the data from the latest survey (2011):
http://db1.stat.gov.lt/statbank/selectvarval/saveselections.asp?MainTable=M3010215&PLanguage=0&TableStyle=&Buttons=&PXSId=3236&IQY=&TC=&ST=ST&rvar0=&rvar1=&rvar2=&rvar3=&rvar4=&rvar5=&rvar6=&rvar7=&rvar8=&rvar9=&rvar10=&rvar11=&rvar12=&rvar13=&rvar14=


Here is the circular of 1795, in German and in Lithuanian. Did Poles or later Russians ever use Lithuanian as administrative language?

If not, then this is really something that must have boosted Lithuanian self-awareness.The mass Polonization of peasantry only started after the failed revolts against the Tsarist government, in particular the 1863's one. If the partitions would not have happened - and the revolts too - do you think that the so-called self-awareness wouldn't have reached us from East Prussia's Lietuvininkai Protestants anyway? But in that scenario the ground on which it would have been seeded might have been stronger than what it had become due to Tsarist occupation. What I mean to say, is that maybe without the partitions ethnic Lithuanian lands in the East would not have become Slavicized.

[lI]

However, antipathy towards Germans is not a new thing that developed due to Soviet propaganda, it has very old traditions in Lithuania's regions which formerly bordered East Prussia.
Even the most archaic layers of Sudovian (Suvalkiečių/Sudūvių) folklore is full of songs, sayings, proverbs like this one:

Sun, dear mother, come onto us, onto us!
Clouds with black lining, onto Prussians ye go, onto Prussians!
There you will get nice towels...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oJfqALjQx0

I stand corrected - apparently South-East Lithuanians have similar songs too, except that they were a bit more explicit...
Maybe it was just friendly teasing after all, nothing special.

Dear cloud, ye little chunk, go past us!
Onto Belarusian calves ye go!
If not on calves, then onto sheep
Belarusian's balls are wet
Dear rain, don't you rain!
We're little shepherds
Our fur coats are short
It's cold for us, it is cold...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgD0nMGqgcU



For comparison, Latvians were sending rain onto both Estonians and Lithuanians

Dear rain go past us
Onto that piece of land
Lithuanian girls are crying sorrowfully
While searching for water
http://www.dainuskapis.lv/daina/28077-0-Arajs-labibas-audzesana-arsana-sesana-plausana

Go roaring and wailing, you rain,
over to those black Estonians!
Come singing, dear sun,
over to those white Latvians!
Estonians have black clothes
They need rain
Latvian have white clothes
They don't need any more rain
http://www.dainuskapis.lv/meklet/Igau%C5%86iem

Only Northern Lithuanians (Samogitians & Aukstaitians) were not sending rain onto anybody.

[Skomand]

It is also not clear who is meant by "Prussians". The Lietuwininkai were also called "Prusai" by the Lithuanians across the border.