Are Turks more white than Sicilians?

[Loki]

Could be, I think so. Discuss.

[Roy]

Let the shitstorm begin! :coffee:

[Sikeliot]

Culturally definitely not.. Turks have an Oriental culture while Sicilians have a European one.

Appearance wise, I'd also say Turks are not whiter despite the fact that you do have many Sicilians who are "exotic" although exotic Sicilians usually look more Levantine than Turkish.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Turkish_people_in_Belgium.jpg


and genetically, if we draw the cutoff for Europe at south Italians, Sicilians, Greeks and Jews, then Turks fall outside of that and closer to other Middle Easterners.

[Loki]

Culturally definitely not.. Turks have an Oriental culture while Sicilians have a European one.

Appearance wise, I'd also say Turks are not whiter despite the fact that you do have many Sicilians who are "exotic" although exotic Sicilians usually look more Levantine than Turkish.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Turkish_people_in_Belgium.jpg


and genetically, if we draw the cutoff for Europe at south Italians, Sicilians, Greeks and Jews, then Turks fall outside of that and closer to other Middle Easterners.

I'm not talking about culturally, but appearance. And the pic you show is cherry-picked. Have a look at the Turkish section for many other pics.

[Philo]

NO.

[Sikeliot]

If Sicilians don't look European to you then what do they look?

[Newsboy]

I don't think Turks are more white than Sicilians or Southern Italians. Generally they are very similar in pigmentation, but features not so much. Many Turks can fit in Italy, but at the same time many cannot.

[Sikeliot]

I don't think Turks are more white than Sicilians or Southern Italians.

I wouldn't group all southern Italians together. Genetically Campanians, Abruzzese, and even Apulians tend to be quite different than Sicilians and Calabrese.

[Sky earth]

Sicilians are whiter/more Caucasoid than Turks. Turks have a strong Iranian and Turanid look which makes them phenotypically alien in europe. Sicilians have a little bit Negroid admixture but Turks have much more Mongoloid admixture on average than Sicilian have Negroid admixture

[Virtuous]

I aint even mad. :coffee:

[Sikeliot]

Sicilians have a little bit Negroid admixture

This is not true. 0.3% every now and again on 23andme does not count.

[King Claus]

sicilians and turks are equally nigger only some turks have dat asian u know.

[Philo]

sicilians and turks are equally nigger only some turks have dat asian u know.
This is what you call a genius right there, ladies and gentlemen.

[wvwvw]

Turks are FAR swarthier than ANY Sicilian and any cherry picking of photos of Turks won't change that. Visit Turkey and get a clue!!
Sicilians are not like Sikeliot has been portraying them for years on these Anthroboards. Turks are not European in any imaginable way, and only 3% of Turkey's mass lies in Europe, and even in that little bit live almost as many Kurds as in Kurdistan.

[Loki]

Turks are FAR swarthier than ANY Sicilian and any cherry picking of photos of Turks won't change that. Visit Turkey and get a clue!!
Sicilians are not like Sikeliot has been portraying them for years on these Anthroboards. Turks are not European in any imaginable way, and only 3% of Turkey's mass lies in Europe, and even in that little bit live almost as many Kurds as in Kurdistan.

You're positively insane.

[Sikeliot]

Sicilians are not like Sikeliot has been portraying them for years on these Anthroboards.

Actually they are. I am quite typical looking for Sicily and except for insecure people with complexes, I've been told the photos I post are very spot on.

[wvwvw]

sicilians and turks are equally nigger only some turks have dat asian u know.

No they are not. Sikeliot has a fetich with Levantines, and loves to portray Sicilians as such. Turks unless cherry picked are as a whole far swarthier to Sicilians.

[wvwvw]

You're positively insane.

and you are biased as hell

[Virtuous]

Culturally definitely not.. Turks have an Oriental culture while Sicilians have a European one.

Appearance wise, I'd also say Turks are not whiter despite the fact that you do have many Sicilians who are "exotic" although exotic Sicilians usually look more Levantine than Turkish.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Turkish_people_in_Belgium.jpg


and genetically, if we draw the cutoff for Europe at south Italians, Sicilians, Greeks and Jews, then Turks fall outside of that and closer to other Middle Easterners.


For comparison's sake: These are Maltesi, supposed to be nigger-er than Sicilians.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/421543_482602281802663_1655837723_n.jpg

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/533753_10151240437003929_1802891012_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/36607_479802575415967_127298021_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/535611_479802588749299_1691776751_n.jpg

[ABest]

NEVER. Not even in their wildest dreams. Not genetically, not culturally, not phenotypically. Only pigmentation wise they are alike.

That said, I like Turks and have Turkish friends. ;)

[Loki]

and you are biased as hell

I'm the opposite of biased - the description fits you better, angry woman. You'll develop wrinkles from all that frowning.

[Newsboy]

I wouldn't group all southern Italians together. Genetically Campanians, Abruzzese, and even Apulians tend to be quite different than Sicilians and Calabrese.

I didn't say that all Southern Italians are the same. I just said that Turks are not whiter than them and have similar pigmentation to them (same latitude and climate). I acknowledge the difference between the people of Lazio/Abruzzo/Molise and Sicily.

[Proto-Shaman]

Turks are FAR swarthier than ANY Sicilian and any cherry picking of photos of Turks won't change that. Visit Turkey and get a clue!!
So Sicilians are swarthy? :rolleyes:

[Sikeliot]

Maltese people are actually in my experience about on par with western Sicilians (except with more British looking people which Sicily does not have), and lighter than eastern Sicilians.

And no, Raine, I do not portray Sicilians as Levantines. I portray them exactly as they are, and post whatever I can find, light or dark. You are probably just insecure because you know people consider both Sicilians and Greeks to be woggy but no one denied both are European.

[ABest]

So Sicilians are swarthy? :rolleyes:

Yes, they are (like other Southern Europeans, maybe a bit more) but noticeably less than the average of your country.

Now, please, cherry pick.

[Sikeliot]

Yes, they are but noticeably less than the average of your country.

Agreed. Sicily also is capable of producing a significant (25% or so) number of people who can pass north of the Alps and in Central Europe, something that Turkey is not capable of.

[Sky earth]

This is not true. 0.3% every now and again on 23andme does not count.

I said a little bit. In this Dodecad spreadsheet Sicilians have 0.3 % Neo-African, 1% East African, 0.2 % Paleo-African and 3.1 % Northwest African admixtures. That makes together 1.5 % Negroid DNA. I don't count Northwest African admixture because I think it's an Berber Caucasoid component

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadDUyeEtjNnBmY09EbnowN3M3UWRyN nc&authkey=COCa89AJ&hl=en_US&authkey=COCa89AJ#gid=0

[Terror Terror]

Yes, they are (like other Southern Europeans, maybe a bit more) but noticeably less than the average of your country.

Now, please, cherry pick.
Pigmentation differences are very insignificant between Italy, the Balkans, Western Turkey and more generally the East Mediterranean.

[Virtuous]

Pigmentation differences are very insignificant between Italy, the Balkans, Western Turkey and more generally the East Mediterranean.

Do not put Italy all together, only peninsular people are compared to Greeks really.

[ABest]

Pigmentation differences are very insignificant between Italy, the Balkans, Western Turkey and more generally the East Mediterranean.

Which is exactly my point, if you read my very first post in this thread.

The only thing that Turks and Sicilians share is a relatively similar average pigmentation (I still think that Sicilians are a bit lighter though, because the more East you go in Turkey the more dark types you see, eventually meeting pigmentations completely alien to Europe).

So basically, other than pigmentation Turks and Sicilians are not that alike. Genetically, culturally and feature-wise they are different. And Sicilians are the ones who have the "whiter" and more European facial features, the more "European" and "Caucasian" genetics (if you recognize such terminology) and the more European culture.

[Newsboy]

Do not put Italy all together, only peninsular people are compared to Greeks really.

In Italy, southerners are not the only ones that resemble Greeks. Central ones do as well. The peninsular ones (Romagna/Tuscany to Sicily) resemble Greeks and are genetically close to them as well.

[Virtuous]

In Italy, southerners are not the only ones that resemble Greeks. Central ones do as well. The peninsular ones (Romagna/Tuscany to Sicily) resemble Greeks and are genetically close to them as well.

Not really, Romans and Greeks have distinct features. But anyway...speaking about pigmentation, I know Greeks to be stereotyped as very pale.

[Terror Terror]

Which is exactly my point, if you read my very first post in this thread.
You said they were like "other Southern Europeans", which is correct only to the extent that you didn't consider the Portuguese and the Spaniards.

[ABest]

You said they were like "other Southern Europeans", which is correct only to the extent that you didn't consider the Portuguese and the Spaniards.

Why are you so technical? You still got my point, right?

[Newsboy]

Not really, Romans and Greeks have distinct features. But anyway...speaking about pigmentation, I know Greeks to be stereotyped as very pale.

Central Italians are not just Romans, but Tuscans, Umbrians, Marchesi, and Romagnoli as well. Romans and Greeks don't look that different from each other. Southern Italians don't all look Greek either. Some of them (especially Western Sicilians) have distinct features.

[ABest]

NEVER. Not even in their wildest dreams. Not genetically, not culturally, not phenotypically. Only pigmentation wise they are alike.

That said, I like Turks and have Turkish friends. ;)

This was my first post btw, in case you read the second one.

[Hevo]

Loki, , give a a reason why Turks could be whiter than Sicilians?

[Loki]

Loki, , give a a reason why Turks could be whiter than Sicilians?

Lighter skin colour?

[Peyrol]

Agreed. Sicily also is capable of producing a significant (25% or so) number of people who can pass north of the Alps and in Central Europe, something that Turkey is not capable of.

Ehm...even our ''census'' (taken in 1910) about light eyes shown a clear ''swartiness'' of the region in comparison to central-northern Italy.
Very few sicilians can pass as native here (Cisalpine regions):

Veneto/Friuli 41,4%
Piemonte/Valle d'Aosta 40%
Lombardia 38,2%
Liguria 37,6%
Emilia-Romagna 31,2%
Umbria 32,8%
Toscana 31,5%
Marche 31,3%
Lazio 26,2%
Abruzzo/Molise 28,5%
Campania 25,6%
Puglia 26,4%
Sicilia (isola) 23,7%
Basilicata 23,1%
Calabria 19,6%
Sardegna (isola) 13,9%

[Lábaru]

First of all we must divide Italy racially in 47 parts, an Italian from Sicily is completely different and distinguishable of an Italian from the Campania, as is well known on the internet :)

[Terror Terror]

Ehm...even our ''census'' (taken in 1910) about light eyes shown a clear ''swartiness'' of the region in comparison to central-northern Italy.
Very few sicilians can pass as native here (Cisalpine regions):

Veneto/Friuli 41,4%
Piemonte/Valle d'Aosta 40%
Lombardia 38,2%
Liguria 37,6%
Emilia-Romagna 31,2%
Umbria 32,8%
Toscana 31,5%
Marche 31,3%
Lazio 26,2%
Abruzzo/Molise 28,5%
Campania 25,6%
Puglia 26,4%
Sicilia (isola) 23,7%
Basilicata 23,1%
Calabria 19,6%
Sardegna (isola) 13,9%
This must be wrong, the Sardinian figure looks too low compared to the others.

[Amun]

No, for sure. Sicilians received Greek, Phoenician and Norman influences, while Turks have Tunarid and some Central Asian admixture. That's doesn't mean that some Turks could actually pass in Europe.

[Peyrol]

This must be wrong, the Sardinian figure looks too low compared to the others.

Lol, it's an isolated island...

[ABest]

Threads like these are annoying. Like, I can imagine a Turk reading this thread going all "OMG I am lighter than a Sicilian, who is European, which makes me whiter than some Europeans, which makes me white and European... OMG". However, that's a non-fact because Sicilians are similar in pigmentation to (Western) Turks (and much lighter than Eastern Turks, actually) and much more European than Turks genetically, facial-features-wise and culturally.

Loki, come on.

[Mans not hot]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/36607_479802575415967_127298021_n.jpg
What is Baltoid (the guy in the middle) doing in Malta?

[Terror Terror]

Lol, it's an isolated island...
It's still got plenty Western Med genes making it lighter.

[Tropico]

I don't consider Sicilians European nor Turks. But that's not a bad thing. Both are unique and have good and bad aspects in their culture and pheno.

[Hevo]

Lighter skin colour?

What makes you think that?

[Virtuous]

What is Baltoid (the guy in the middle) doing in Malta?

Apparently fatty depigmentid berid-alpinid = EastBaltoid :laugh:

[Peyrol]

In Italy, southerners are not the only ones that resemble Greeks. Central ones do as well. The peninsular ones (Romagna/Tuscany to Sicily) resemble Greeks and are genetically close to them as well.

Senseless.

At least tuscans genetically cluster with some turks because of ancient etruscans.

[Loki]

What makes you think that?

I'm just asking a question, since I'm not sure myself.

[ABest]

No, for sure. Sicilians received Greek, Phoenician and Norman influences, while Turks have Tunarid and some Central Asian admixture. That's doesn't mean that some Turks could actually pass in Europe.

Historically, Anatolia has also been colonized by the Phoenicians.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/PhoenicianTrade.png

Also, Anatolia has had continual contact with Mesopotamians, who were darker, Middle-Eastern types. Also, there have been many population movements of Arabs and other Muslims from around the Muslim world into Anatolia because of the Arab-Byzantine wars and also because of the multicultural Ottoman Empire which assimilated many Arab/MENA populations within Anatolia through times.

Also, Anatolia has an undeniable geographical relatedness to the MENA world, which would make such population movements inevitable at all historical and pre-historical times.

[Mans not hot]

Apparently fatty depigmentid berid-alpinid = regular Baltid :laugh:
Fixed. The guy really does look pseudo regular Baltid, interesting. Good to see diversity among Maltese, though.

[Virtuous]

Fixed. The guy really does look pseudo regular Baltid, interesting. Good to see diversity among Maltese, though.

Ah, indeed he looks wide faced East with West Baltid features.

[Zmey Gorynych]

Comparing turks with sicilians means spitting in the face of the italian nation which is a disgraceful thing to do.

[Hevo]

I'm just asking a question, since I'm not sure myself.

Sicilians are more European looking than Turks obviously.

[Peyrol]

Comparing turks with sicilians means spitting in the face of the italian nation which is a disgraceful thing to do.

Why?

They're 5 million people conquered in 1861 (as the whole South), the rest of Italy has other 55 million people.
''italian'' is a nationality, not an ethnicity.
Luckly.

[Loki]

Sicilians are more European looking than Turks obviously.

It may be obvious for you, but not for me.

[Loki]

Comparing turks with sicilians means spitting in the face of the italian nation which is a disgraceful thing to do.

Can we keep emotions out of this? You are actually insulting Turks in this way.

[ABest]

Why?

They're 5 million people conquered in 1861 (as the whole South), the rest of Italy has other 55 million people.
''italian'' is a nationality, not an ethnicity.
Luckly.

Luckily? Peyrol, that sounds kind of harsh... :p

[Peyrol]

Luckily? Peyrol, that sounds kind of harsh... :p

What...?

[ABest]

What...?

Nothing... I just felt that you wanted to disassociate yourself from the South by saying "Luckily". Maybe I misunderstood...

[Newsboy]

Senseless.

At least tuscans genetically cluster with some turks because of ancient etruscans.

Some Greeks really do cluster with Central Italians (Tuscans). Were Ancient Etruscans really from Anatolia (Present day Turkey)? And are you saying they cluster closer to some Turks than to Greeks?

[Zmey Gorynych]

Why?

They're 5 million people conquered in 1861 (as the whole South), the rest of Italy has other 55 million people.
''italian'' is a nationality, not an ethnicity.
Luckly.
I know you like to wallow in the state of gorgeous isolation but don't you have any kind of sympathy for your southern brothers and let them be equaled with turks !?


Can we keep emotions out of this? You are actually insulting Turks in this way.
No emotions, cold reasoning only ... there can be no association between turks and italians.

[Peyrol]

Nothing... I just felt that you wanted to disassociate yourself from the South by saying "Luckily". Maybe I misunderstood...

And what's wrong in this?

We never been united, neither politically and culturally/ethnically, until 1861, lol.

Just watch a random linguistical, cultural, geographical and historical map of the Peninsula from 476 A.D. to 1861.


This don't mean i hate them, just that we've nothing in common, except to be united into a nation built by freemasons and giacobines 152 years ago.

[Peyrol]

I know you like to wallow in the state of gorgeous isolation but don't you have any kind of sympathy for your southern brothers and let them be equaled with turks !?

''Brothers''?

Man, i live 40 min of car from France and about 48 hours of car from Palermo...what is exactly a ''brother''?

(i don't agree about the association with turks, btw)

[ABest]

And what's wrong in this?

We never been united, neither politically and culturally/ethnically, until 1861, lol.

Just watch a random linguistical, cultural, geographical and historical map of the Peninsula from 476 A.D. to 1861.


This don't mean i hate them, just that we've nothing in common, except to be united into a nation built by freemasons and giacobines 152 years ago.

I knew that and I knew that different Italians spoke virtually different languages until recently. I just thought that the Italian identity was stronger nowadays, but I was wrong, I guess.

And yeah there was nothing wrong with what you said.

[Ibericus]

No, Turks are darker than sicilians. And less european genetically.

[Peyrol]

I knew that and I knew that different Italians spoke virtually different languages until recently. I just thought that the Italian identity was stronger, but i was wrong.

And yeah there was nothing wrong with what you said.

''Italian identity'' is something senseless since standard italian is an aritifical language based on medieval tuscan.

''Italian identity'' was forged firstly by some freemasons like Garibaldi, Cavour and Thaon du Reveil (last two were piemontese, lol) and after and mainly by fascist government, between 1922 ad 1945.
''regional'' (lol) languages were strictly forbidden during fascism, for example.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Not when the average Turk looks like this:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Dwmh5DWisk4/T__-FiXH_0I/AAAAAAAAAUw/cuCyrZ-A1J4/s1600/IMG_3161.JPG

versus

http://cf.mp-cdn.net/e5/92/2779d93b42f80740316539e2fe66.jpg

[Zmey Gorynych]

''Brothers''?

Man, i live 40 min of car from France and about 48 hours of car from Palermo...what is exactly a ''brother''?

(i don't agree about the association with turks, btw)
If brother is a too stronger word for you than compatriot or would this also be an exaggeration of your ties with sicilians.

[poiuytrewq0987]

''Italian identity'' is something senseless since standard italian is an aritifical language based on medieval tuscan.

''Italian identity'' was forged firstly by some freemasons like Garibaldi, Cavour and Thaon du Reveil (last two were piemontese, lol) and after and mainly by fascist government, between 1922 ad 1945.
''regional'' (lol) languages were strictly forbidden during fascism, for example.

Don't you consider Italian identity a continuation of Roman identity?

[Lábaru]

but, what Sicilians are we talking? because there are obvious phenotypic differences between Sicilians from coast and inland Sicilian.

[Peyrol]

Don't you consider Italian identity a continuation of Roman identity?

Nope, since even in roman times northern Italy was gaulish and southern Italy hellenic.

At least only modern latials and umbrians can be considered ''romans'', lol.

[Peyrol]

but, what Sicilians are we talking? because there are obvious phenotypic differences between Sicilians from coast and inland Sicilian.

There isn't any kind of significative difference between the whole south in term of features.
Maybe a little about pigmentation, but nit so significative as some people here protrays.

[Newsboy]

Nope, since even in roman times northern Italy was gaulish and southern Italy hellenic.

At least only modern latials and umbrians can be considered ''romans'', lol.

Southern Italy is also Phoenician and Norman. Not all Southern Italians look Greek. Many Southern Italians don't look Greek. Ancona was a Greek colony situated at the Adriatic coast of Central Italy. Osimo and Lumana were also Syracusan Greek settlements near Ancona. Normans never went north of Abruzzo. Why deny any connection between Central Italians and Greeks?

[Zmey Gorynych]

Don't you consider Italian identity a continuation of Roman identity?
What a strange and ironic state of affairs, many eastern nations are divided into countless states and want to be together once more while those from the west have that unity but dream of separation.

[Peyrol]

Southern Italy is also Phoenician and Norman. Not all Southern Italians are Greek. Many Southern Italians don't look Greek. Ancona was a Greek colony situated at the Adriatic coast of Central Italy. Normans never went north of Abruzzo.

I said hellenophones, not hellenic.

[Peyrol]

If brother is a too stronger word for you than compatriot or would this also be an exaggeration of your ties with sicilians.

Just for clarification: the division line between Western Romanic and Eastern Romanic populations pass here

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-G-IhQUf8rZ8/Tg3qKFPculI/AAAAAAAAAhQ/GDDdaX0eSC4/s1600/imma2.jpg

[Twistedmind]

I don't consider Sicilians European nor Turks. But that's not a bad thing. Both are unique and have good and bad aspects in their culture and pheno.
Seems we reached conclusion then. :rotfl2
I dont want to sound harsh, but what the fuck your opinion means? Honestly, nothing.
Sicily is culturaly, politicaly, economicaly, geographicaly, religiously part of Europe, Turkey is not.

Anyway, Western Turkey is maybe on pair with Sicily in lightness, rest, not realy.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Nope, since even in roman times northern Italy was gaulish and southern Italy hellenic.

At least only modern latials and umbrians can be considered ''romans'', lol.

Italy itself might have a couple different peoples but I think they've been unified by the common Roman culture. Yes, there are different dialects, maybe even languages, but is it sufficient to keep all of them separate after 1000 years of Imperial Rome, 200 years of unified Italy?

[Newsboy]

I said hellenophones, not hellenic.

Oh I'm Sorry:confused:, you said hellenic on your other post. I was confused. Some people spoke Greek there but the language probably became extinct there after Byzantine Empire with the exceptions of Griko people in Apulia and Calabria.

[Ivan Kramskoï]

Turks are not white whereas in sicile many are white so ...
The only turks that look euro are descendants of bosnian, greek ... so they are not indeed turk ...

[Loki]

Not when the average Turk looks like this:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Dwmh5DWisk4/T__-FiXH_0I/AAAAAAAAAUw/cuCyrZ-A1J4/s1600/IMG_3161.JPG

versus

http://cf.mp-cdn.net/e5/92/2779d93b42f80740316539e2fe66.jpg

These two look racially similar. The first is just an old dirty man and the second a young woman in a bikini.

[Loki]

Only the Turks with pure Balkan ancestry look white/European.

:picard1:

[Peyrol]

Italy itself might have a couple different peoples but I think they've been unified by the common Roman culture. Yes, there are different dialects, maybe even languages, but is it sufficient to keep all of them separate after 1000 years of Imperial Rome, 200 years of unified Italy?

This is senseless since roman world ended 1500 years ago.

Even Portugal or Wales were part of roman empire...would you consider them the same people as, for example, romanians?

[poiuytrewq0987]

These two look racially similar. The first is just an old dirty man and the second a young woman in a bikini.

True. I love Turkish women anyhow especially when they remove their hijab.

[Hevo]

Seems we reached conclusion then. :rotfl2
I dont want to sound harsh, but what the fuck your opinion means? Honestly, nothing.
Sicily is culturaly, politicaly, economicaly, geographicaly, religiously part of Europe, Turkey is not.

Anyway, Western Turkey is maybe on pair with Sicily in lightness, rest, not realy.

Right on brat, i don't even understand why some people doubt that Sicilians are whiter/ more European than Turks. I mean come on son....

[poiuytrewq0987]

This is senseless since roman world ended 1500 years ago.

Even Portugal or Wales were part of roman empire...would you consider them the same people as, for example, romanians?

All European Romance countries belong to the same common cultural sphere, regional differences do exist but it's Europe... what do you think?

[Peyrol]

All European Romance countries belong to the same common cultural sphere, regional differences do exist but it's Europe... what do you think?

I don't think so, since romanization was a cultural assimilative process and not an ethnic replacement.

[Arianiti]

In European part you see white Balkan people but when crossing Bosphorus Bridge then they look darker, but still you can see people who could fit in Balkans. I have never been to Sicily and I can not make comparison between two people.

[Terror Terror]

I don't think so, since romanization was a cultural assimilative process and not an ethnic replacement.
I couldn't agree more, for example the Iberians speak Romance languages but they are culturally and ethnically Atlantic Celts:

http://lightstorage.ecodibergamo.it/media/2006/07/hevia11.jpg

[Arianiti]

My mom has relatives there too, who have been expelled by Slavs.

[Loki]

Yes, and there are many of them. Among my relatives aswell who have been in Turkey for 90years+.

You probably don't know much about the history of Anatolia.

[Bosnjakinja]

Nope they're not

[Peyrol]

You probably don't know much about the history of Anatolia.

...as many people here don't know much about the history of Sicily.

[ABest]

Loki I think you need to understand that Western Turks will look superficially similar to Sicilians, in terms of pigmentation mostly. In terms of their features, Western Turks still deviate much more than Sicilians from the "European mean", on average.


Central Turks and especially Eastern Turks are not only darker than Sicilians but their features become truly and clearly "non-European" and more Middle-Eastern-ish (again, I'm talking about averages, don't start cherry-picking).

[SKYNET]

they are both niggers

[ABest]

Also Loki, genetically all Turks (Western, Central and Eastern ones) are much less "European" than Sicilians. Let's not even talk about culture, as Sicily is an important island for European history in general!

[Peyrol]

Sicilian Untermadchen...blehah, i would never breed with those disgusting creatures...

http://www.giulianovanews.it/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/miriam-leone.jpg

http://www.blogsicilia.eu/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Anna-Valle_shadowbox.jpg

http://static.televisionando.it/televisionando/fotogallery/625X0/49935/chiara-salvo-miss-deborah-sicilia.jpg

http://corrierefiorentino.corriere.it/appsSondaggi/pages/corfirenze/images/19_672-458_resize.jpg

[Loki]

Let's not even talk about culture, as Sicily is an important island for European history in general!

Turkey had a much more important role in shaping Europe than Sicily ever had.

[Arianiti]

You can see in Turkey people like her, who was born in Sivas Province, Anatolia.

She is turkish singer by the way, Emel Sayin

http://www.turkishculture.org/images/people/example-1567-2-49542037.jpg




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Sivas_in_Turkey.svg

[ABest]

Turkey had a much more important role in shaping Europe than Sicily ever had.

That is very true, but right now they are not in the European cultural sphere, except Istanbul (barely).

Sicily has managed to retain its European-ness (excluding one small break during the Muslim conquest).

[Virtuous]

You can see in Turkey people like her, who were born in Sivas Province, Anatolia.

http://www.turkishculture.org/images/people/example-1567-2-49542037.jpg




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Sivas_in_Turkey.svg

Makeup-id, Contact lenses-id, dye-id East Med.

[Loki]

Loki I think you need to understand that Western Turks will look superficially similar to Sicilians, in terms of pigmentation mostly. In terms of their features, Western Turks still deviate much more than Sicilians from the "European mean", on average.


Central Turks and especially Eastern Turks are not only darker than Sicilians but their features become truly and clearly "non-European" and more Middle-Eastern-ish (again, I'm talking about averages, don't start cherry-picking).

Have you ever been to central Turkey? There where the Celts (Galatians) have settled.

[Arianiti]

Makeup-id, Contact lenses-id, dye-id East Med.

No no she is real. Very famous

[ABest]

You can see in Turkey people like her, who were born in Sivas Province, Anatolia.

She is turkish singer by the way, Emel Sayin

http://www.turkishculture.org/images/people/example-1567-2-49542037.jpg




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Sivas_in_Turkey.svg

Are you trying to cherry-pick European looking Eastern Turks? Because that's pointless... Come on now...

[Virtuous]

Turkey had a much more important role in shaping Europe than Sicily ever had.

If it wasn't for Malta, Spain and Austria, Europe would be Ottoman Muslim. Nice shape-ing right there.

[Arianiti]

Are you trying to cherry-pick European looking Eastern Turks? Because that's pointless... Come on now...

No, I'm not trying to do anything, bur there are people like her blond, and when I checked where she was born, some time ago, she was from this Sivas Province.

[ABest]

Have you ever been to central Turkey? There where the Celts (Galatians) have settled.

Of course I know about Galatia, but that doesn't change the fact that the average central Turk will look not that European. It's not like those people are still Celts.

The Gauls entered Anatolia and mixed with the natives, obviously...

[Peyrol]

Turkey had a much more important role in shaping Europe than Sicily ever had.


:picard1:

Just a couple (for the rest there is always Uncle Google)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Evola

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gramsci



(no atomic bomb with this guy)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ettore_Majorana

[Loki]

Of course I know about Galatia, but that doesn't change the fact that the average central Turk will look not that European. It's not like those people are still Celts.

The Gauls entered Anatolia and mixed with the natives, obviously...

The fact remains that most of you guys speak out of pure ignorance, never having been to Turkey more than likely. It's easy to speculate, especially about people you don't like. Reality is often different from what you want it to be.

[Leliana]

Can we keep emotions out of this? You are actually insulting Turks in this way.
Uhm, aren't you kinda insulting Sicilians by asking if Turks could be more 'white' than them? What would you say if I'd ask if native Zulus are more intelligent or creative than Afrikaners? And don't say that you wouldn't feel offended because everyone knows it were a rhetoric but provocative question.


Turkey had a much more important role in shaping Europe than Sicily ever had.
Yes, just like a wild boar who has gone aggro had an important role in 'shaping' a garden. :picard2:

http://kurt-staudt.de/cmsbk/wb/media/Wildschweine/Wildschweine-12.JPG

The photo could stand for the visualization of the crap that the Ottomans left on the Balkans.

[Loki]

:picard1:

Just a couple (for the rest there is always Uncle Google)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Evola

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gramsci



(no atomic bomb with this guy)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ettore_Majorana

I wasn't talking about individuals, obviously - but a country's whole contribution.

[Loki]

Uhm, aren't you kinda insulting Sicilians by asking if Turks could be more 'white' than them? What would you say if I'd ask if native Zulus are more intelligent than Afrikaaners? And don't say that you wouldn't felt offended in any way.


No, you are insulting Turks by saying I am insulting Sicilians :rolleyes:

I don't care, you can ask what you want. It won't make it real. I won't be offended, of course. I'm not a teenager anymore.

[Peyrol]

I wasn't talking about individuals, obviously - but a country's whole contribution.

Sicily never been a country except for few years in the Middle Age and in the Renaissance.


Btw, whitout Venetian, Piemontese, Ligurian, Germanic states and Spanish fleets and armies, the entire Europe now would be muslim since 1500....so, if for ''turkey was influential to modern europe'...yes, it was since promoted european unity against an external invader.

[safinator]

Ataturk for example looked quite the Balkanite.

For well known reasons i might add.

[American_Hispanist]

Western Anatolians and some central Anatolians look similar to Sicilians but past central Anatolia, you get gypsy looking people (Kurds). Anyway, Western Turks aren't whiter than Sicilians, and never would be. I have a feeling this a troll thread to be honest, as the answers are very obvious.

[Loki]

Sicily never been a country except for few years in the Middle Age and in the Renaissance.


Btw, whitout Venetian, Piemontese, Ligurian, Germanic states and SApanish fleets and armies, the entire Europe now would be muslim since 1500....so, if for ''turkey was influential to modern europe'...yes, it was since promoted european unity against an external invader.

That's a good example, yes.

[Peyrol]

That's a good example, yes.

That's for sure

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lepanto




Btw, after the Siege of Cyprus (that was a venetian dipartimento)turks deported about 40,000 venetic-cypriots into Anatolia. I wonder if there are some descents of these people.

[American_Hispanist]

:lol: LOL at some of these idiots in here who stress "European" unity. they are as stupid as some of the people on Anthroscape who try to stress me to unite with a bunch of Puerto Rican morons to form "Latin-American Unity" :lol:

Hell, I can't even agree with my ethnogenisis (mexicans) many times. what makes them think I'll unite with a bunch of ssa influenced Latin-Americans. :lol:

[Peyrol]

:lol: LOL at some of these idiots in here who stress "European" unity. they are as stupid as some of the people on Anthroscape who try to stress me to unite with a bunch of Puerto Rican morons to form "Latin-American Unity" :lol:

Hell, I can't even agree with my ethnogenisis (mexicans) many times. what makes them think I'll unite with a bunch of ssa influenced Latin-Americans. :lol:


I'm talking about Renaissance, not about nowadays.

Take a look of the Holy Alliance...some historical enemy nations like Venetian republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Venice) and Genoese republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_genoa) allied together against ottomans...

[Virtuous]

:lol: LOL at some of these idiots in here who stress "European" unity. they are as stupid as some of the people on Anthroscape who try to stress me to unite with a bunch of Puerto Rican morons to form "Latin-American Unity" :lol:

Hell, I can't even agree with my ethnogenisis (mexicans) many times. what makes them think I'll unite with a bunch of ssa influenced Latin-Americans. :lol:

Are you comparing European peoples with Spanish-ized Amerindians? Unity in cocaine...

[American_Hispanist]

I'm talking about Renaissance, not about nowadays.

Take a look of the Holy Alliance...some historical enemy nations like Venetian republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Venice) and Genoese republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_genoa) allied together against ottomans...

I'm not talking what you have been talking. I am talking about fools like leliana. :lol:

The only thing Turkey did in Europe was unite almost all Catholic europeans against them (Holy League) and show how unhonorable France.

[American_Hispanist]

Are you comparing European peoples with Spanish-ized Amerindians?

:lol: My people aren't Bolivians. But I'm comparing fools who believe in the NS shit that all europeans should be brothers when at even the local level, Europeans can't unite (just go ask people in Northern Ireland what they think of people of their opposite religion). Some Latin-Americans are trying to stress the same thing, that we should unite like brothers, when I can't even find a dam thing in common with ssa influenced "Latin-Americans." :lol:

[ABest]

The fact remains that most of you guys speak out of pure ignorance, never having been to Turkey more than likely. It's easy to speculate, especially about people you don't like. Reality is often different from what you want it to be.

I've been to Istanbul three times, though? I also know many Turkish people who come from the West and the center.

And according to your previous logic any region that has been exposed to a Gallic or Nordic invasion is lighter than Sicily. Does that mean that areas of the Levant are lighter than the Sicilian pigmentation average because of the crusades? And are you forgetting that Sicily herself has been exposed to numerous Nordic invasions?

And I don't see why you are accusing others of being ignorant when many of the opinions expressed here have been quite sensible imo.

[Peyrol]

The only thing Turkey did in Europe was unite almost all Catholic europeans against them (Holy League)

Exactly.

Thanks to this honorable man, the doge Sebastiano Venier, head of the Venetian Republic and founder of the Alliance.

http://www.rositour.it/Arte/Tintoretto/Sebastiano%20Venier_Coll.Privata.jpg

God bless him forever and the Serenixima Republica de Venexia (697-1797 and 1848-1849)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhP5XZiQn6k

[Loki]

I've been to Istanbul three times, though?


That explains it. Istanbul is a multicultural hellhole of 14 million people, many of whom are immigrants.

[ABest]

:lol: LOL at some of these idiots in here who stress "European" unity. they are as stupid as some of the people on Anthroscape who try to stress me to unite with a bunch of Puerto Rican morons to form "Latin-American Unity" :lol:

Hell, I can't even agree with my ethnogenisis (mexicans) many times. what makes them think I'll unite with a bunch of ssa influenced Latin-Americans. :lol:

Well, personally, my "rants" (lol) are not about European unity, they are about some phenotypical differences that do exist between Sicilians and Turks.

[ABest]

That explains it. Istanbul is a multicultural hellhole of 14 million people, many of whom are immigrants.

I also know many Turks who come from the West and central Turkey. They don't look particularly different to each other but their group pics on Facebook do. Anyway, I'm sick of this conversation but I still stand by my arguments.

[American_Hispanist]

Well, personally, my "rants" (lol) are not about European unity, they are about some phenotypical differences that do exist between Sicilians and Turks.

I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about some fools on this forum who are in the 14/88 crowd.

[Prince Carlo]

Turks I've met IRL didn't look very European. I mean if Turks are white, then Armenians and especially Georgians are ultra white.

[American_Hispanist]

Turks I've met IRL didn't look very European. I mean if Turks are white, then Armenians and especially Georgians are ultra white.

I thought you were going to use this thread to troll alfieb. :lol:

[Virtuous]

Bananajoe to the rescue.

[Peyrol]

Hironically, the most powerful sicilian ever was quite eastern-european looking :lol:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/thumb/7/78/Bprovenzano.jpg/250px-Bprovenzano.jpg

http://www.fascioemartello.it/images/stories/mafiosi/provenzano/Bernardo_big.jpg

[Prince Carlo]

I am not enough white to fit in Malta.


First of all we must divide Italy racially in 47 parts, an Italian from Sicily is completely different and distinguishable of an Italian from the Campania, as is well known on the internet :)

Quite funny. The difference is not huge, but still enough to see a difference in the phenotype.

[Virtuous]

I am not enough white to fit in Malta.

I report you. HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE.

[Gospodine]

No they are not. Sikeliot has a fetich with Levantines, and loves to portray Sicilians as such.

When the hell has he done that?

He just posts atypical looking Sicilians from time to time because they're more of a challenge to classify and represent Sicily's/Southern Italy's diversity as opposed to the massive white-washed image presented by a lot of the Italians (and even some of the Sicilians) on here.

[Proto-Shaman]

Turks I've met IRL didn't look very European. I mean if Turks are white, then Armenians and especially Georgians are ultra white.
Turks in Europe = mostly not white Turks of Western Anatolia

[Peyrol]

Turks I've met IRL didn't look very European. I mean if Turks are white, then Armenians and especially Georgians are ultra white.

The most famous turk we have here in Italy, Paolo Kessisoglu, is half ligurian, 1/4 turk and 1/4 kurd...

http://images.movieplayer.it/2009/09/10/una-foto-di-paolo-kessisoglu-129912.jpg

[wvwvw]

Turkey had a much more important role in shaping Europe than Sicily ever had.

It is true that Turkey had an important role in shaping Europe. But that role was very negative. Many had to be massacred, genocided, and ethnically cleansed from the ancestral lands for that. Turkey may had an impact on Balkan countries & in shaping Europe but we paid with our lives and keep paying for that impact. The dark ages that Balkan experienced from Ottoman occupation is the very result of that impact. In all countries in the Balkans the traditional picture of the genocidal Turk has become part of the national folklore. Europeans started to define themselves as Europeans only after they came in contact with Turks. So there is no comparison between the two: Sicily contributed to European civilization, Turkey destroyed that civilization.

[Prince Carlo]

The most famous turk we have here in Italy, Paolo Kessisoglu, is half ligurian, 1/4 turk and 1/4 kurd...


I thought he was half Armenian. BTW Today I saw a documentary about immigrants in Italy, and it showed a couple a of Turks selling Kebabs in Tuscany. They both had jet black curly hair and strange facial features. I initially thought they were Moroccans or something.

[liamliam]

Possibly. To be honest, I have met more naturally blonde Turkish people with light skin and pale reddish skin which doesn't really tan, in comparison to Sicilians who look like this. But that's just my opinion. I guess you probably get a more large range of looks in Turkey, very light, Scandinavian looking people, to very middle eastern looking people, wheras in Sicilly most people seem to look generally somewhere in between.
Some examples of these types of Turkish people:

http://media.snimka.bg/9451/025158356.jpg?r=0

http://files.myopera.com/celebfan/albums/10577912/thumbs/bade_23.jpg_thumb.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2SwVz-iwWSc/TgjveH1UmPI/AAAAAAAAALo/BWFJEtseq5Y/s1600/badeiil3.jpg

http://www.celebshouse.com/images/Bade-Iscil-05.jpg

http://www.tvaktuel.com/upload/resimler/galeri/bade-iscil-foto-7.jpg

http://dl.topnaz.com/2012/5/image/shabnam%20(1).jpg

http://dl.topnaz.com/2012/5/image/shabnam%20(4).jpg

Girl 2:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3453/3881023372_4ea8483160.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8394/8674109376_0293be2a3b.jpg

Girl 3:

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2641/3880227105_348923b465.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YHdQXbQmDH0/TSSdOrwSf_I/AAAAAAAAA70/ef34zF-7NCo/s1600/4.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-19P6g67cAh4/UPrYKz9mxfI/AAAAAAAABUk/vaYidMznoOM/s1600/Ceyda-Ates-kavak-yelleri-20234613-377-500.jpg

http://www.bakimlikadin.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Ceyda-Ates-8560.jpg

Girl 4:

http://www.dizifix.com/kisi_img/33fc668f14f9205348384459067eec7c.jpg

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/6630/duygudikmenoglu7forumda.jpg

http://www.odatv.com/images/2008_09/2008_09_23/duygu-dikmenoglunun-gozaltina-alindigi-haberi-yalan-mi-2309081200_l.jpg[/QUOTE]

http://st-listas.20minutos.es/images/2009-08/135385/1535268_640px.jpg?1251459708

http://1.2.3.9/bmi/www.alarab.net/data/news/2012/03/29/446233/20120329114726201110231124351732_5_1250440633.jpg

http://g.mynet.com/i/107/78277_0.jpg

http://1.2.3.13/bmi/www.dizimizi.com/resimler/802000/meral-kaplan.jpg


I'm not sure they would be able to pass as Sicillian's, most people would assume they where northern European tourists imo.

[ABest]

It is true that Turkey had an important role in shaping Europe. But that role was negative. Many had to be massacred, genocided, and ethnically cleansed from the ancestral lands for that. Turkey may had an impact on Balkan countries a role in shaping Europe but we paid with our lives and keep paying for that impact. The dark ages that Balkan experienced from Ottoman occupation is the result of that impact. In all countries in the Balkans the traditional picture of the genocidal Turk has become part of the national folklore. European started to define themselves as Europeans only when they first came in contact with Turks.

He was talking about ancient Hellenistic Anatolia, Raine. From Mycenaean up to late Byzantine times, Hellenism was flourishing in Western Anatolia.

[Peyrol]

I thought he was half Armenian. BTW Today I saw a documentary about immigrants in Italy, and it showed a couple a of Turks selling Kebabs in Tuscany. They both had jet black curly hair and strange facial features. I initially thought they were Moroccans or something.

Yup, my mistake...1/4 armenian, not kurd.

[Gospodine]

But that's just my opinion.

... And it's worthless, as we all know.

[American_Hispanist]

They both had jet black curly hair and strange facial features. I initially thought they were Moroccans or something.

That almost basically describes my look. :lol:

[Peyrol]

Hironically, the most powerful sicilian ever was quite eastern-european looking :lol:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/thumb/7/78/Bprovenzano.jpg/250px-Bprovenzano.jpg

http://www.fascioemartello.it/images/stories/mafiosi/provenzano/Bernardo_big.jpg


i've also to add our former Minister of the Army and Defence, native from Palermo (and member of the former neofascist party Alleanza Nazionale)...quite odd look :lol:

http://www.fratelli-italiapiemonte.it/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/La-Russa.jpg

[ABest]

Turks in Europe = mostly not white Turks of Western Anatolia

True. But they are still Turks and they represent the wide range of phenotypes that can be found in Turkey, which I was stressing previously.

[liamliam]

... And it's worthless, as we all know.

In your opinion. Which isn't particularly important to me at all.

[Peyrol]

How many people on this board travelled in Sicily...very amazin fact...

[wvwvw]

He was talking about ancient Hellenistic Anatolia, Raine. From Mycenaean up to late Byzantine times, Hellenism was flourishing in Western Anatolia.

Hellenism has nothing to do with Turks. This is what Turkish Civilization is all about.

One of the tendencies of the Ottoman state was to lash out against the Christians under its rule. The tragedy of Christian communities under Turkish rule, as then-British Prime Minister William Gladstone saw it, was not “a question of Mohammedanism simply, but of Mohammedanism compounded with the peculiar character of a race.” He wrote of the Turks:

“They were, upon the whole, from the black day when they first entered Europe, the one great anti-human specimen of humanity. Wherever they went a broad line of blood marked the track behind them, and, as far as their dominion reached, civilization disappeared from view. They represented everywhere government by force as opposed to government by law. — Yet a government by force can not be maintained without the aid of an intellectual element. — Hence there grew up, what has been rare in the history of the world, a kind of tolerance in the midst of cruelty, tyranny and rapine. Much of Christian life was contemptuously left alone and a race of Greeks was attracted to Constantinople which has all along made up, in some degree, the deficiencies of Turkish Islam in the element of mind.”

“The attitude of the Moslems toward the Christians and the Jews is that of a master towards slaves,” reported the British Vice Consul in Mosul (an Ottoman city in what is now Northern Iraq) a little later in 1909, “whom he treats with a certain lordly tolerance so long as they keep their place. Any sign of pretension to equality is promptly repressed.” This, of course, is the old story of dhimmitude or the second-class citizenship of non-Moslems under Moslem rule.

The Ottomans lurched from outrage to outrage. Regular slaughters of Armenians in Bayazid (1877), Alashgurd (1879), Sassun (1894), Constantinople (1896), Adana (1909) and Armenia itself (1895-96) claimed a total of two hundred thousand lives, but they were only rehearsals for the genocide of 1915. The slaughter of Christians in Alexandria in 1881 was only a rehearsal for the artificial famine induced by the Turks in 1915-16 that killed over a hundred thousand Maronite Christians in Lebanon and Syria. So imminent and ever-present was the peril, and so fresh the memory of these events in the minds of the non-Moslems, that illiterate Christian mothers dated events as so many years before or after “such and such a massacre.” Across the Middle East, the bloodshed of 1915-1922 finally destroyed ancient Christian communities and cultures that had survived since Roman times—groups like the Jacobites (Syrian Orthodox), Nestorians (Iraqi Orthodox), and Chaldaeans (Iraqi Catholic).[/QUOTE]

[Proto-Shaman]

True. But they are still Turks and they represent the wide range of phenotypes that can be found in Turkey...
Eastern Anatolia

[Prince Carlo]

Yup, my mistake...1/4 armenian, not kurd.

Turks in Tuscany = ancient Etruscans. Enjoy your dark side!!111

:rolleyes:

[AlanAstarDersimi]

Western Anatolians and some central Anatolians look similar to Sicilians but past central Anatolia, you get gypsy looking people (Kurds). Anyway, Western Turks aren't whiter than Sicilians, and never would be. I have a feeling this a troll thread to be honest, as the answers are very obvious.

i dont now why people like you talk everywhere about kurdish people, this thread is about turkish people not about kurds....
kurds look like kurds, i dont now why you equite kurds and gypsys...
gypsys arent one ethnic group, so wtf ???
i think you are an racist and want to humiliate kurdish people...

[Proto-Shaman]

Turks in Tuscany = ancient Etruscans. Enjoy your dark side!!111

:rolleyes:
Could work... some of them had really slanted eyes :rolleyes:http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2023/2105641051_e71074ec36.jpg

[Peyrol]

Turks in Tuscany = ancient Etruscans. Enjoy your dark side!!111

:rolleyes:


Nope, all the peninsula, Friuli and Alto Adige included, were for centuries under the Caliphate...all the millions and millions of inhabithants were killed and replaced with saharawi bedouisn and hedjaz nomads.
Now all the 61 million people are of this stock...unless Malta, which still is a aryan stronghold.

[ABest]

Hellenism has nothing to do with Turks. This is what Turkish Civilization is all about.

One of the tendencies of the Ottoman state was to lash out against the Christians under its rule. The tragedy of Christian communities under Turkish rule, as then-British Prime Minister William Gladstone saw it, was not “a question of Mohammedanism simply, but of Mohammedanism compounded with the peculiar character of a race.” He wrote of the Turks:

“They were, upon the whole, from the black day when they first entered Europe, the one great anti-human specimen of humanity. Wherever they went a broad line of blood marked the track behind them, and, as far as their dominion reached, civilization disappeared from view. They represented everywhere government by force as opposed to government by law. — Yet a government by force can not be maintained without the aid of an intellectual element. — Hence there grew up, what has been rare in the history of the world, a kind of tolerance in the midst of cruelty, tyranny and rapine. Much of Christian life was contemptuously left alone and a race of Greeks was attracted to Constantinople which has all along made up, in some degree, the deficiencies of Turkish Islam in the element of mind.”

“The attitude of the Moslems toward the Christians and the Jews is that of a master towards slaves,” reported the British Vice Consul in Mosul (an Ottoman city in what is now Northern Iraq) a little later in 1909, “whom he treats with a certain lordly tolerance so long as they keep their place. Any sign of pretension to equality is promptly repressed.” This, of course, is the old story of dhimmitude or the second-class citizenship of non-Moslems under Moslem rule.

The Ottomans lurched from outrage to outrage. Regular slaughters of Armenians in Bayazid (1877), Alashgurd (1879), Sassun (1894), Constantinople (1896), Adana (1909) and Armenia itself (1895-96) claimed a total of two hundred thousand lives, but they were only rehearsals for the genocide of 1915. The slaughter of Christians in Alexandria in 1881 was only a rehearsal for the artificial famine induced by the Turks in 1915-16 that killed over a hundred thousand Maronite Christians in Lebanon and Syria. So imminent and ever-present was the peril, and so fresh the memory of these events in the minds of the non-Moslems, that illiterate Christian mothers dated events as so many years before or after “such and such a massacre.” Across the Middle East, the bloodshed of 1915-1922 finally destroyed ancient Christian communities and cultures that had survived since Roman times—groups like the Jacobites (Syrian Orthodox), Nestorians (Iraqi Orthodox), and Chaldaeans (Iraqi Catholic).

I will repeat myself: He was talking about that region.

[American_Hispanist]

i dont now why people like you talk everywhere about kurdish people, this thread is about turkish people not about kurds....
kurds look like kurds, i dont now why you equite kurds and gypsys...
gypsys arent one ethnic group, so wtf ???
i think you are an racist and want to humiliate kurdish people...

:lol: I'm not a Turk bro.

[ABest]

Eastern Anatolia

Yup.

[Peyrol]

Could work... some of them had really slanted eyes :rolleyes:http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2023/2105641051_e71074ec36.jpg

...


etruscans:

http://www.climatemonitor.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/etruschi.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-eMVtaDGxGaE/T6vr0vWWFGI/AAAAAAAABi8/oxk83TEGUU0/s1600/tarquinia_-_tomba_leopardi.jpg

[Prince Carlo]

Nope, all the peninsula, Friuli and Alto Adige included, were for centuries under the Caliphate...all the millions and millions of inhabithants were killed and replaced with saharawi bedouisn and hedjaz nomads.
Now all the 61 million people are of this stock...unless Malta, which still is a aryan stronghold.

Anthropologists have discovered a new racial type: the Malta Nordid. Let's hope that the Malta Nordids will save us from our etruscan-turan genes.

[poiuytrewq0987]

i dont now why people like you talk everywhere about kurdish people, this thread is about turkish people not about kurds....
kurds look like kurds, i dont now why you equite kurds and gypsys...
gypsys arent one ethnic group, so wtf ???
i think you are an racist and want to humiliate kurdish people...

True, Kurds look like depigmented guidos.

http://failhair.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/guidos.jpg

[AlanAstarDersimi]

:lol: I'm not a Turk bro.
i dont say that you are a turk :D

[Peyrol]

Anthropologists have discovered a new racial type: the Malta Nordid. Let's hope that the Malta Nordids will save us from our etruscan-turan genes.

New turanist maps have to include Tuscany, definitely.

Now i'll go to our famous alpine med beaches to eat our mediterranean cisalpine food.


...but before... behold Melkor, proudest of the Ainur:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG3USDHjOnA

[Proto-Shaman]

...


etruscans:

http://www.climatemonitor.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/etruschi.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-eMVtaDGxGaE/T6vr0vWWFGI/AAAAAAAABi8/oxk83TEGUU0/s1600/tarquinia_-_tomba_leopardi.jpg
and Etruscans who had really slanted eyes :rolleyes:

[AlanAstarDersimi]

True, Kurds look like depigmented guidos.

http://failhair.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/guidos.jpg

you are very humorous :picard1:

[Proto-Shaman]

New turanist maps have to include Tuscany, definitely.
:bored:

"The archeological findings represent proofs that the Etruscans, Mycenaean and Scythian influences were almost equally strong. These three (supposedly all) Ural Altaic ethno-lingual waves were quite similar in characteristics, [...]. The newest archeological findings seem to prove that the Etruscans were non- Indo-European, but Turanian, or Ural-Altaic peoples. [...]. We do not have certain evidence about the racial origin of the prehistoric men who populated the Danubian Basin in Mesolithic times. (#15). We know from archeological evidence that a full-fledged Neolithic culture (the so-called Danubian I, #16) appeared in the Danubian area about 2700 BC, having come presumably from the east and south. If it came from the east, it could be of Scythan origin, which is suspected to be an early Ural-Altaic ethno-linguistic culture, and it could be interesting to mention that the Hungarian language of today belongs to he same linguistic group." (Endre Haraszti, The ethnic history of Transylvania, Danubian Press, 1971, p.8 (http://books.google.de/books?id=eK9nAAAAMAAJ))

[Peyrol]

:bored:

"The archeological findings represent proofs that the Etruscans, Mycenaean and Scythian influences were almost equally strong. These three (supposedly all) Ural Altaic ethno-lingual waves were quite similar in characteristics, [...]. The newest archeological findings seem to prove that the Etruscans were non- Indo-European, but Turanian, or Ural-Altaic peoples. [...]. We do not have certain evidence about the racial origin of the prehistoric men who populated the Danubian Basin in Mesolithic times. (#15). We know from archeological evidence that a full-fledged Neolithic culture (the so-called Danubian I, #16) appeared in the Danubian area about 2700 BC, having come presumably from the east and south. If it came from the east, it could be of Scythan origin, which is suspected to be an early Ural-Altaic ethno-linguistic culture, and it could be interesting to mention that the Hungarian language of today belongs to he same linguistic group." (Endre Haraszti, The ethnic history of Transylvania, Danubian Press, 1971, p.8 (http://books.google.de/books?id=eK9nAAAAMAAJ))

Etruscans were originally from the area near modern city of Bursa, and the language was a tyrsenic language, as thaetian and lemnic

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Tyrsenian_languages.svg

Classical latin was 30% etruscan derived...and so are modern romance languages (and, for some degrees, also english).

[Proto-Shaman]

Etruscans were originally from the area near modern city of Bursa, and the language was a tyrsenic language, as thaetian and lemnic

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Tyrsenian_languages.svg

Classical latin was 30% etruscan derived...and so are modern romance languages (and, for some degrees, also english).
The Lemnian (Lemnos inscriptions: Pelasgian Ural-Altaic) connotation is correct, but the Rhaetic connection has been dismissed. The Rhaetians in the Alps were civilised by the Etruscans and retained the Tuskan language. The word Tus, whence Tuskan, apparently means 'south', as in Turkic dialects. Tyrsen/Tyrhen comes from Turkic Tarhan/Tarkan. The formation of the Etruscan civilisation is characterized by two migration lines: the Troyan/Anatolian line, and the Scythic/Kazakh line.

[Peyrol]

Wow...so this mean that Leonardo, Galileo, Michelangelo and Giotto were turanics.

[Proto-Shaman]

Wow...so this mean that Leonardo, Galileo, Michelangelo and Giotto were turanics.
Einstein was a Khazarian Jew btw :cool:

[Peyrol]

The Lemnian (Lemnos inscriptions: Pelasgian Ural-Altaic) connotation is correct, but the Rhaetic connection has been dismissed. The Rhaetians in the Alps were civilised by the Etruscans and retained the Tuskan language. The word Tus, whence Tuskan, apparently means 'south', as in Turkic dialects. Tyrsen/Tyrhen comes from Turkic Tarhan/Tarkan. The formation of the Etruscan civilisation is characterized by two migration lines: the Troyan/Anatolian line, and the Scythic/Kazakh line.

Well, Tuscolana/Tuscia/Tuscana was the latin name of the region, given by romans to their neigbors...etruscans called themselves ''Rasna/Rasenna'' and Tuscany ''Mexl Rasnal''.

Here an old topic of mine about etruscans, with a lot of words from etruscan language:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?60289-Etrurian-Etruscans

[Atlantic Islander]

http://imageshack.us/a/img843/5522/202l.gif

[Roy]

Do you think this look could be some reminiscence of ancient migration from Anatalia to Italy? (Etruscs?)
I've seen some similar Central Italians.
http://www.sportscardigest.com/wp-content/uploads/Enzo-Ferrari1.jpg

[Peyrol]

Do you think this look could be some reminiscence of ancient migration from Anatalia to Italy? (Etruscs?)
I've seen some similar Central Italians.
http://www.sportscardigest.com/wp-content/uploads/Enzo-Ferrari1.jpg

Enzo Ferrari? Lol, it was Aemilian, so could be.

http://www.summagallicana.it/lessico/e/Etruschi%20Etruscan_civilization_italian_map.JPG

[Sikeliot]

When the hell has he done that?

He just posts atypical looking Sicilians from time to time because they're more of a challenge to classify and represent Sicily's/Southern Italy's diversity as opposed to the massive white-washed image presented by a lot of the Italians (and even some of the Sicilians) on here.

Exactly. I find online that some people like to show an overly whitewashed Nordified image of Sicily and I don't deny that some Sicilians are actually very light (some can even pass in Norway and Germany) but the average Sicilian was not impacted much by Northern European/Nordic genes at all, but I still show all of the diversity and I think I do a good job of it. Just because it's uncomfortable for some to admit doesn't mean I will censor the truth for them :lol:

[Smeagol]

Turks have more non-White blood than Sicilians.

[alfieb]

http://cdn.wl.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/grandpa-simpson-gif.gif

Another day on TA, and another troll thread from Loki. There are better ways of creating activity than trying to get flamewars going. :yawn:

[Newsboy]

Loki is the founder of this forum, so it will be an oxymoron to say Loki is a troll.

But nonetheless, this thread is rather silly and most likely Sicilians are genetically more European with different facial features. Pigmentation they are roughly the same.

Turks have the same pigmentation as most Northern Mediterraneans but different facial features. Liam showed us some blonde Slavic looking Turks, but they are not the majority and are found mostly in the Black Sea coast near Ukraine, Russia, and Georgia. They are not more common than the Turanid (somewhat Mongoloid) types.

[alfieb]

Loki is the founder of this forum, so it will be an oxymoron to say Loki is a troll.
No, he's rather deliberate about it.

Guapo and XX get away with their multiple account bullshit because any nearly activity is seen as good activity, I guess. :shrug:

[Newsboy]

No, he's rather deliberate about it.

Guapo and XX get away with their multiple account bullshit because any nearly activity is seen as good activity, I guess. :shrug:

I have noticed his behavior lately. He's starting threads that just don't seem right for the founder. Sicilians darker than Turks? Bosnians smelling bad? Guapo and XX getting extra good treatment? Something's up.

[arcticwolf]

Ah, this is the question that keeps me up at night. I've spent so many sleepless nights pondering this question. It's something that's constantly on my mind.

Thanks Loki for voicing out what has been on my mind since forever. You've read my mind. Thanks a lot!!! :laugh:

[alfieb]

Ah, this is the question that keeps me up at night. I've spent so many sleepless nights pondering this question. It's something that's constantly on my mind.

Thanks Loki for voicing out what has been on my mind since forever. You've read my mind. Thanks a lot!!! :laugh:

Really. Turks and Sicilians have no beef. We don't think about you guys, and you don't think about us.

[lamb]

I don't know what race they are, but these Sicilian/Italian ladies scare me. o.O

http://imageshack.us/a/img11/2842/reneegraziano.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img443/720/teresagiudice240.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img842/7397/castvh1mobwivesvisitsel.jpg

[Sikeliot]

I don't know what race they are, but these Sicilian/Italian ladies scare me. o.O

http://imageshack.us/a/img11/2842/reneegraziano.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img443/720/teresagiudice240.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img842/7397/castvh1mobwivesvisitsel.jpg

Teresa Guidice is Campanian. But I know as for the others, they look like they had plastic surgery so I don't even know what to consider them.

[lamb]

They probably had plastic surgery..and too much tanning beds..

[Newsboy]

Teresa Guidice is Campanian. But I know as for the others, they look like they had plastic surgery so I don't even know what to consider them.

While it's true that Italians are a bit overrated in looks (no offense Sikeliot), those Italian women are not representative of Italy, North or South. Most Italians are not as good-looking as the media would portray them as, but they still aren't hideous or narcissistic fake-tan annoying people xD

[Sikeliot]

Back on topic -- the three biggest components to Sicilian genes are Greek, Italic, and Levantine. Of the three, two of those are "whiter" than the average Turk and therefore Sicilians cannot possibly be less 'white' than Turks.

[Newsboy]

Back on topic -- the three biggest components to Sicilian genes are Greek, Italic, and Levantine. Of the three, two of those are "whiter" than the average Turk and therefore Sicilians cannot possibly be less 'white' than Turks.

That's right. There were S. Greeks in the Eastern coasts, Italic tribes in the inland, and coastal Levantine in the West. The ones in the Eastern, inland, and most of the West can't possibly be darker than Turks on average. Maybe the same, but not darker. Even if the Celts were in Istanbul, they probably didn't leave such a big impact on the people. Turks look essentially Central Asian (Turkmen) with Southern European, Kurdish, and even Levantine influences. Kurds, Levantines, and Turkmens are not whiter than Sicilians or anyone in Europe whatsoever.

[alfieb]

Kurds, Levantines, and Turkmens are not whiter than Sicilians or anyone in Europe whatsoever.

http://media.irishcentral.com/images/20111101035931Roma-Gypsies.jpg

[Newsboy]

http://media.irishcentral.com/images/20111101035931Roma-Gypsies.jpg

Thanks for reminding me, Alfieb. I meant to say every native European, Zingari/Gitano not included.

[Sikeliot]

That's right. There were S. Greeks in the Eastern coasts, Italic tribes in the inland, and coastal Levantine in the West.

People in central/inland Sicily on 23andme cluster close to Cypriots and Anatolian Greeks. So it makes us wonder if the "Italic" tribes were mostly Italic by blood or Italicized Neolithics.

[Newsboy]

People in central/inland Sicily on 23andme cluster close to Cypriots and Anatolian Greeks. So it makes us wonder if the "Italic" tribes were mostly Italic by blood or Italicized Neolithics.

It's debatable. With those genetic results, maybe the latter seems more likely for Sicilians and some other Southern Italians. Inland Sicilians don't just cluster near Cypriot/Anatolian Greeks but they look like them as well. IMO more than mainland and Ionian Islander Greeks.

[Sikeliot]

Well I posted some people from Catania in another thread if you want to judge.

[Diërker]

It's debatable. With those genetic results, maybe the latter seems more likely for Sicilians and some other Southern Italians. Inland Sicilians don't just cluster near Cypriot/Anatolian Greeks but they look like them as well. IMO more than mainland and Ionian Islander Greeks.

So your name is the Golden Dragon.

[Diërker]

Akuba, I am the Great Arkan Prodigy.
I am pleased to meet you, my fellow China man.

[RussiaPrussia]

turks have higher iq than latinos, its as high as Sicilians. Its equal i would say

[Baluarte]

If it wasn't for Malta, Spain and Austria, Europe would be Ottoman Muslim. Nice shape-ing right there.

The real European truth of the Modern Age right here.
Just worth remembering that "Austria" also encompassed Hungary and a number of West Slavs.

[ZephyrousMandaru]

I'm not talking about culturally, but appearance. And the pic you show is cherry-picked. Have a look at the Turkish section for many other pics.

Cherry picked? As far as I'm aware, that's not a small crowd. So I very much doubt it's cherry-picked. If anything, the single individual photographs in the Turkish thread are cherry picked.

[Incal]

turks have higher iq than latinos, its as high as Sicilians. Its equal i would say

Depends on the country. The Southern cone has higher IQ than turks:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/IQ_by_Country.png/800px-IQ_by_Country.png

[ZephyrousMandaru]

NEVER. Not even in their wildest dreams. Not genetically, not culturally, not phenotypically. Only pigmentation wise they are alike.

That said, I like Turks and have Turkish friends. ;)

I'd question their supposed equivalence even with pigmentation. I think Turks are darker, especially as you go further East and South.

[Lemon Kush]

Turks, they may have Dutch blood

[Ulla]

Could be, I think so. Discuss.

No.

[aja675]

I don't know what race they are, but these Sicilian/Italian ladies scare me. o.O

http://imageshack.us/a/img11/2842/reneegraziano.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img443/720/teresagiudice240.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img842/7397/castvh1mobwivesvisitsel.jpg

How would you classify Teresa Giudice?

[SkyBurn]

1) Loki, love the trolling effort :p

2) "Whiteness" is meaningless

3) Probably Sicilians...

[slayer]

from what I've seen in the anthroboard, I can say that some italans and balkan people (yugo,bulgarian,albanian ecc.) could overlap with the turkish.
This kind of overlap (probably for historical reason) lacks in the Iberians for historical reasons (the ottoman empire did not include eastern europe).

[Trun]

I don't know who has seen Turks and who hasn't. But Anatolian Turks stick out in Bulgaria. Greeks in comparison with them are visibly lighter and more Euro-loking, so I guess it'll be the same with Sicilians.

Absolutely typical Turks, would I mistake them for Europeans? No way.

http://www.modatakipcisi.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/volkan-demirel-sac-modelleri-3.jpeg
http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/1/2012/324x324/250005335.jpg

[RussiaPrussia]

Depends on the country. The Southern cone has higher IQ than turks:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/IQ_by_Country.png/800px-IQ_by_Country.png

i think this map is very outdated, lyn took some numbers out from his ass

http://imageshack.us/a/img94/2097/mathvg.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img833/4605/sciencei.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img843/6758/10668657.png

[Ulla]

Turks in Tuscany = ancient Etruscans. Enjoy your dark side!!111

:rolleyes:

When Tuscany was Etruscan, Turks didn't even exist. And Turkey was known as Anatolia.

Etruscans were an admixture, They were also indo-european. An Etruscan surname found in Tuscany is "Arianas".

[Ulla]

Could work... some of them had really slanted eyes :rolleyes:http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2023/2105641051_e71074ec36.jpg

The slanted eyes were an artistic style present in Egypt and also in ancient Greece. It has little to do with the people of Asia. The conquest of the Turks of Anatolia took place two thousand years after the first written documents of the Etruscans found in Italy.

[Ulla]

New turanist maps have to include Tuscany, definitely.



Turanism is puerile nationalist Turkish propaganda.

[alfieb]

When Tuscany was Etruscan, Turks didn't even exist. And Turkey was known as Anatolia.
And Asia Minor.

[Ulla]

The Lemnian (Lemnos inscriptions: Pelasgian Ural-Altaic) connotation is correct, but the Rhaetic connection has been dismissed. The Rhaetians in the Alps were civilised by the Etruscans and retained the Tuskan language. The word Tus, whence Tuskan, apparently means 'south', as in Turkic dialects. Tyrsen/Tyrhen comes from Turkic Tarhan/Tarkan. The formation of the Etruscan civilisation is characterized by two migration lines: the Troyan/Anatolian line, and the Scythic/Kazakh line.


Well, Tuskan language doesn't exist. There is the Tuscan language of modern Tuscany, but it's a medieval language of Latin origin, the most conservative Latin dialect from which is derived Italian. Etruscan called themselves Rasna (a word that recalls the indoeuropean India not the nomadic Mongol-Turkic tribes). Latins and Umbrians called them Etruscans (Latin Tuscus, plural Tusci from Umbrian Tuskum, meaning "neighbors". Both Latin and Umbrian are indoeuropean languages.)

And, let's see the difference, Turanist friend.

The first Etruscan written document is dated 700 BC.

The first Turkish written document is dated 732 AD (Old Turkic, Orkhon inscriptions).

Among the Etruscans and the Turks there are 1400 years of difference. Few, is not it?

[Aquafina]

No.

[Proto-Shaman]

Well, Tuskan language doesn't exist. There is the Tuscan language of modern Tuscany, but it's a medieval language of Latin origin, the most conservative Latin dialect from which is derived Italian. Etruscan called themselves Rasna (a word that recalls the indoeuropean India not the nomadic Mongol-Turkic tribes). Latins and Umbrians called them Etruscans (Latin Tuscus, plural Tusci from Umbrian Tuskum, meaning "neighbors". Both Latin and Umbrian are indoeuropean languages.)

And, let's see the difference, Turanist friend.

The first Etruscan written document is dated 700 BC.

The first Turkish written document is dated 732 AD (Old Turkic, Orkhon inscriptions).

Among the Etruscans and the Turks there are 1400 years of difference. Few, is not it?
Stop your Anti-Turkish Propaganda and join the academic style of debate: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?60289-Etrurian-Etruscans

@gregor (alias Brownboy) if you continue trolling here as well, you'll be banned for 2 days.

[gregorius]

Stop your Anti-Turkish Propaganda and join the academic style of debate: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?60289-Etrurian-Etruscans

@gregor (alias Brownboy) if you continue trolling here as well, you'll be banned for 2 days.

Lol trolling? i dont troll dude. If anyone its you

[gregorius]

how do you mean continue trolling? :picard1:, I dodnt troll i give sources with my claims. While you are missusing your moderators rights by threatening me for no reason, And at the same time in the other thread you were swearing at me for no reason either. If someone should stopping trolling its you

[Loki]

@gregor (alias Brownboy) if you continue trolling here as well, you'll be banned for 2 days.

That's not necessary. He's just debating.

[tEhSaint]

That's out of question. No.

[Proto-Shaman]

That's not necessary. He's just debating.
This thread is a good example of "gregor"ian style of OT-trolling...
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?81526-Blonde-European-looking-Turkish-people/page11

[gregorius]

This thread is a good example of "gregor"ian style of OT-trolling...
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?81526-Blonde-European-looking-Turkish-people/page11

:rotfl: , If you call that trolling

[Loki]

This thread is a good example of "gregor"ian style of OT-trolling...
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?81526-Blonde-European-looking-Turkish-people/page11

You mean you actually delete his posts when he is just debating with you? It shouldn't happen ...

[gregorius]

You mean you actually delete his posts when he is just debating with you? It shouldn't happen ...

Lol he deleted all my posts :picard2:,

[Proto-Shaman]

You mean you actually delete his posts when he is just debating with you? It shouldn't happen ...
I deleted all OT posts of our conversation, not only his. He is not debating, he is simply ignoring academic sources and misinterpreting, since he can only push his own opinion, nothing else.

[Proto-Shaman]

Lol he deleted all my posts :picard2:,
two-sides-of-the-same-coin
http://mymarriageworks.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/two-sides-of-the-same-coin.jpg

[American_Hispanist]

I see the Turk losing his mod position.

[gregorius]

I deleted all OT posts of our conversation, not only his. He is not debating, he is simply ignoring academic sources and misinterpreting, since he can only push his own opinion, nothing else.

:rotfl: Says you,
Academic sources by hungarian nationalist, Dude i gave you sources of Cornell a ivy league University.
You gave me a source of a hungarian nationalistic lawyer who was talking about turanian people 5000 years ago.

And you even denied he was hungarian :rotfl:

and you accidentaly didnt deleted your claim? What is this kind of manipulation.

[tEhSaint]

You mean you actually delete his posts when he is just debating with you? It shouldn't happen ...

He should be demoded. This is not a civilized way to argue on a matter. This is how fascists "debate" . :coffee:

[Proto-Shaman]

:rotfl: Says you,
and even the tags for the thread (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?81526-Blonde-European-looking-Turkish-people)

[American_Hispanist]

He should be demoded. This is not a civilized way to argue on a matter. This is how fascists "debate" . :coffee:

agreed.

[gregorius]

and even the tags for the thread (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?81526-Blonde-European-looking-Turkish-people)

Yea i didnt do that

[Proto-Shaman]

Yea i didnt do that
me too. so...

[gregorius]

two-sides-of-the-same-coin
http://mymarriageworks.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/two-sides-of-the-same-coin.jpg

But you helded your own last one, You wanted to have the last word huh? well you can have it by this way :laugh:

[gregorius]

me too. so...

Than dont speculate like if i did that

[Proto-Shaman]

Than dont speculate like if i did that
I did't claim such thing :eusa_doh:


But you helded your own last one, You wanted to have the last word huh? well you can have it by this way :laugh:
You mean Turukkeans, Lullubeans? Actually there wasn't any further answer on this.

[gregorius]

Seems like you still dont know the difference between claiming and speculating

[gregorius]

I did't claim such thing :eusa_doh:


You mean Turukkeans, Lullubeans? Actually there wasn't any further answer on this.

You kept on talking that they were from anatolia, when they were clearly in iran.

[Proto-Shaman]

You kept on talking that they were from anatolia, when they were clearly in iran.
In particular Eastern Anatolia, Irak, Northern Iran. I thought we finished it?


Seems like you still dont know the difference between claiming and speculating
How do you want me to answer?

[gregorius]

In particular Eastern Anatolia, Irak, Northern Iran. I thought we finish it?
You source says that lubbeans and that other tribe where from the zagrazmountains-northen mesopotamia, So not Ancient anatolian,



How do you want me to answer?
:picard1:

[Proto-Shaman]

You source says that lubbeans and that other tribe where from the zagrazmountains-northen mesopotamia, So not Ancient anatolian,
Turukkaeans mainly inhabited the borderland of North Iran/Irak.

And Lullubaeans mainly inhabited the borderland of North Iran/ East Anatolia. i.e. both tribes were related to Hurrians.
http://books.google.de/books?hl=de&id=tiHwDe7JmCEC&dq=Anatolia+Turukku&q=Lullu#v=snippet&q=Lullu&f=false

Why do you want to play this kindergarden game again?


:picard1:
Gregor why are you so doll?

[gregorius]

Turukkaeans mainly inhabited the borderland of Northern Iran/Irak.

And Lullubaeans mainly inhabited the borderland of North Iran/ East Anatolia.
http://books.google.de/books?hl=de&id=tiHwDe7JmCEC&dq=Anatolia+Turukku&q=Lullu#v=snippet&q=Lullu&f=false

Why do you want play this kindergarden game again?

Your earlier source was said something else, Which one is true ?

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?81526-Blonde-European-looking-Turkish-people&p=1633011&viewfull=1#post1633011



Gregor why are you so doll?

You are a laughingobject really, :rotfl:

[gregorius]

my post Than dont speculate like if i did that
your posts I did't claim such thing

I said than dont specualte, while you replie with I didnt claim. Read better like all of your sources you use where they are speculating.

[Guapo]

I aint even mad. :coffee:

You're portuguese.

[Proto-Shaman]

Your earlier source was said something else, Which one is true ?

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?81526-Blonde-European-looking-Turkish-people&p=1633011&viewfull=1#post1633011
Do you know where Aratta actually lies?
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aratta


my post Than dont speculate like if i did that
your posts I did't claim such thing

I said than dont specualte, while you replie with I didnt claim. Read better like all of your sources you use where they are speculating.

You are a laughingobject really, :rotfl:
Are you trolling again gregor?

[Baluarte]

Kipchak you're a disgrace.

[Proto-Shaman]

Kipchak you're a disgrace.
Says the Greek :coffee:

[gregorius]

Says the Greek :coffee:

:rotfl:

[Baluarte]

Says the Greek :coffee:

So? Run from the Greek fire like your caveman kin

http://www.greece.org/romiosini/gr_fire.gif

[Loki]

Okay that's enough. This discussion is closed.