Revenge

[Brynhild]

Some would say this is a dish best served cold, while others would rather not go down that road at all. Would you take out an act of revenge, or not? Opinions appreciated.

For myself, I never used to think that anybody was worth it but an incident which occurred recently has forced me to rethink this view. There was no other way to resolve this problem, due to the nasty nature of it all, but I would only reach this conclusion as a last resort.

[Loki]

Slippery subject. First, one has to carefully consider whether an individual is actually deserving of such an act. No human is totally good, or totally evil. People make errors of judgement and in turn make other people angry.

I am not as naive as to think there are no people around who soberly sit and contemplate the undoing and destruction of others. I guess people like that somehow would be deserving of 'revenge'. However, the point in question here is our own judgement. Many a times our own judgement about other people is clouded by our own lack of knowledge about what makes them tick, our own misinterpretation of events, or a purely emotional response.

It is therefore this lack of personal objectivity that would caution me to actually go about a plan of revenge on someone else. You may even get to regret such a thing later on, when you have more perspective on the matter or your viewpoints have been changed by experience or new information regarding the person in question.

[Loki]

Another problem with revenge, is that if you do not totally destroy your enemy, he may decide to take revenge on your revenge -- and it becomes a vicious circle. I have no doubt that this is one of the main causes of physical violence and, eventually, murder.

[Brynhild]

Perhaps revenge was the wrong choice of word. What I was thinking of was along the lines of justice being served, especially when all other avenues have failed. Of course it's a moral dilemma, and one should think very carefully before they go down that path.

[Nodens]

Slippery subject. First, one has to carefully consider whether an individual is actually deserving of such an act. No human is totally good, or totally evil. People make errors of judgement and in turn make other people angry.

I am not as naive as to think there are no people around who soberly sit and contemplate the undoing and destruction of others. I guess people like that somehow would be deserving of 'revenge'. However, the point in question here is our own judgement. Many a times our own judgement about other people is clouded by our own lack of knowledge about what makes them tick, our own misinterpretation of events, or a purely emotional response.

It is therefore this lack of personal objectivity that would caution me to actually go about a plan of revenge on someone else. You may even get to regret such a thing later on, when you have more perspective on the matter or your viewpoints have been changed by experience or new information regarding the person in question.

Translation: Think before you act.

Personal opinion: Revenge is mandatory if it is necessary to further you ultimate goal (in terms of resolving the conflict), acceptable as long as it doesn't hinder your goals (provided it's carried out intelligently) and undesirable if it does.

[Bari]

In my region there was written a code of law which included revenge. Called the kanun. It served a good purpose in old times as preventing murder and remaning order, although today its problematic in the era of globalism. When encountering people with other perceiption of insults and honor. As well as it can be misinterparated, In the hands of unstable people it can be dangerous.

It depends what kind of revenge you are thinking of. By killing someone i understand why people do it, but blood feuds can in Albania go on for generations/centuries, extermanating whole familys. It ends up in a sirlce of counter-revenge which never ends.

Although i do believe in teaching someone a lesson by a good beating if they really are applying for it.

Its not an easy question, for one doesn't really know how to act before one is in the situation and the mind is not filled with reason but hate and thirst for justice. Like if someone kills someone you love and care about, i don't think anyone can say how they would react.

[Loki]

What I was thinking of was along the lines of justice being served

Depends on who is the adjudicator, how objective the adjudicator is, and what judgement is to be considered for the crimes.

It sounds as if you are in doubt about the matter as it is. This should ring extra alarm bells. You are doing the right thing to discuss this, though. It would help you to get perspective on the matter. Actions lead to reactions.

[Skandi]

Revenge? Hm I certainly indulge in petty revenge, such as making life difficult for someone who has done the same for me, i.e. refusing to give a lift to someone who stood me up or didn't give me one. But when it comes to larger issues I think it can get a bit out of hand, as Tonsor pointed out, blood feud can go on for centuries and i don't think that is a good idea. However letting somebody get away with something is also not good, as they will just continue to do it again and again.


EDIT when I take revenge I am careful to do it in a way that cannot be traced back to me.

[Brynhild]

Depends on who is the adjudicator, how objective the adjudicator is, and what judgement is to be considered for the crimes.

It sounds as if you are in doubt about the matter as it is. This should ring extra alarm bells. You are doing the right thing to discuss this, though. It would help you to get perspective on the matter. Actions lead to reactions.

Not so much doubt. My act was done as a means of protecting myself. There may have been a tad bit of guilt because I've never done this before and I don't want to do it again. I've already thought of repercussions, and you just mirrored them. The following remark has reassured me that in this instance I have done the right thing.


Translation: Think before you act.

Personal opinion: Revenge is mandatory if it is necessary to further you ultimate goal (in terms of resolving the conflict), acceptable as long as it doesn't hinder your goals (provided it's carried out intelligently) and undesirable if it does.

In my Shamanic work, I have to understand the sort of people who are out there, and learn to be one step ahead of the more nasty types. To avoid such conflict in the future, appropriate forms of protection must be utilised so that I'm not vulnerable to those types of people again. From this perspective, it promotes my spiritual development and aids me to assisting others who would otherwise go through a similar trauma.

[Atlas]

I can be very spiteful when someone betray me, unless the person apologizes in front of me.

If not I do believe in some sort of revenge, it has not to be necessary physical violence.

[Absinthe]

No, I believe in Karma ;)

[Damião de Góis]

I have never been in a stiuation where i would consider revenge. I can't remember anything serious.
But for example, when playing football, if someone kicks me on purpose i will kick back whenever i have the chance but maybe sports are diferent.

[Liffrea]

Revenge, like anger or hate, can be all consuming and can twist and destroy the person who wishes to exact revenge, particularly if you have to lower yourself or abandon your own principles in order to do it.

[Ulf]

Depends what was done. But yes, I would seek vengeance.

[Piparskeggr]

Revenge need not be physical, nor done in a heat of emotion. It is best done coldly; calculated to have maximum ill-effect upon the person who has earned it.

It must be earned; run of the mill acts do not require revenge.

In example, the last time I performed an act of vengeance was shortly after my sister divorced her first husband. The marriage, well, the Church (through the local Bishop's council) annulled it after speaking to her for 2 hours and him for 15 minutes.

He hurt my sister, so I got him and his cash basis business audited by the US Internal Revenue Service. 14 years later, he's still working a second job to pay them off.

[Finsterer Streiter]

Revenge is the true, most direct form of justice. It´s pure and unbureaucratic. Reporting an offence against somebody is negligible if you have the guts to return fire. Unleash the fucking fury and let the other one pay the price of his own action.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=69086&postcount=71

One sample of proper revenge.

[Cato]

Dirty Harry-styled revenge, no, but via the process of law, yes. Isn't criminal execution revenge? The days of heroic vendettas and blood feuds are gone, and there's no chance that someone can avenge an insult or foul crime, and get away with it. In lawless societies, or places where might makes right, revenge is to be expected, but not in what passes for civlized society today.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Pallamedes
Isn't criminal execution revenge?

No it’s justice, there is a difference.

[Germanicus]

Revenge need not be physical, nor done in a heat of emotion. It is best done coldly; calculated to have maximum ill-effect upon the person who has earned it.

It must be earned; run of the mill acts do not require revenge.

In example, the last time I performed an act of vengeance was shortly after my sister divorced her first husband. The marriage, well, the Church (through the local Bishop's council) annulled it after speaking to her for 2 hours and him for 15 minutes.

He hurt my sister, so I got him and his cash basis business audited by the US Internal Revenue Service. 14 years later, he's still working a second job to pay them off.


Never violence.......... just cold calculated revenge, nothing more nothing less.
In my case my exwife was given everything she asked for in her settlement, 50/50 of all and everything we owned jointly.
She took all her clothes, shoes, jewelry, and i gave her her antique tables and chairs.
Her father was an artist of some worth, over the years he gave us a lot of oil paintings and water colours, and sketches.
Over the course of 26 years you can imagine how many photos of our sons there are in albums before we went digital........Revenge....never give her any of the albums, and never give her fathers paintings back to her.....they are all safely packed away in the attic.... never to be seen again..... i know it hurts her like hell.....my youngest son tells me everything...:thumbs up

[Frigga]

Yes, but only if you do it right. ;) And never anything that be traced back to you. And never anything that could cause mortal harm, unless there are exceptional circumstances. I'm one to hold a grudge.

[Germanicus]

Yes, but only if you do it right. ;) And never anything that be traced back to you. And never anything that could cause mortal harm, unless there are exceptional circumstances. I'm one to hold a grudge.


Agreed..........i have my revenge, and i also still have the respect from my 2 sons, they both know me very well, they both know their mother got everything else she wanted and i never acted unkindly in our divorce.

[Psychonaut]

I'm actually in favor of a bringing back the rigidly codified system of dueling that we had in our nation's infancy.

[Mrs Ulf]

I do believe in revenge. I think its about time we start taking direct action for serious offenses.

I used to think that some greater force would take that revenge for me, but I believe us all to be small gods within ourselves. So we must take revenge where revenge is needed. Not to abuse such actions.

It is meant to be used only when there is no other course. To let something awful go, is to submit to it, and in some ways agree with it.

Revenge should only be used on a personal level, not to include race or religion. Personal views and hates are not an excuse for revenge. It should be view as a sacred act and ONLY when someone has seriously failed on a general moral level.

[Lady L]

Ya'll remember that old bastard that stuck our tires..............? :cool:

And, you remember we're moving in 2 weeks ....................? :wink

Revenge will come about a month after we're gone ...in the middle of the night.

A harsh reality for him it will be .....................:coffee:

...:D

[Barreldriver]

Revenge is one of my prime motivators.

[Bridie]

No. I'm far too lazy to bother with things like revenge. All that time and energy spent for what? Nothing in the end.

[Tabiti]

I believe in revenge, however never used it.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Bridie
No. I'm far too lazy to bother with things like revenge. All that time and energy spent for what? Nothing in the end.

I would tend to agree, revenge is an emotional need; it’s rarely motivated by anything other than self gratification, which is why I prefer justice.

[Rainraven]

I won't go out of my way to get revenge. But if something slightly nasty happens I may give a wee snicker before I tell myself to be nice and that I'm above that ;)

The only thing I really don't like is people that can dish it out but not take it. All I can say is if you're going to be nasty to people then expect it to come back round and bite you in the ass.

[RoyBatty]

Can't really be bothered enough myself to concern myself with revenge. I just don't care I guess.
There was a time in the past when I was contemplating "doing" somebody but it was a stressful time and an unhappy period which eventually resolved itself by cutting that person out of my life.

Imo it isn't worth the hassle.

[Octothorpe]

If one's personal sense of honor demands it, then make sure it's done well. Blind lashings-out will not suffice, nor will they spread the cold, greasy comfort one feels in the gut when revenge fits the bill. Shape it, nuture it, let it make you stronger. Unleash it when your enemy cannot touch you. It's best when you are the only one who knows what has happened. Your souls will be comforted in splendid isolation.

[safinator]

Nope, it's doesn't solve anything.

[Ville]

Like if someone kills someone you love and care about, i don't think anyone can say how they would react.

It makes the world of difference, I agree

Wrongs done to you may and must be taken philosophically. In the end, revenge would ultimately be a petty deed because it comes with a high price tag which is your integrity and self-respect. You are in control here.

But a terrible wrong that was done to those you love may and, most likely, will translate into an inner conflict with heavy gravitas of its own. Imagine somebody tortured your helpless mother or father... just thinking about it makes my blood temperature rise; imagine somebody killed your child in an obscenely appalling way that is simply impossible to evict from your struggling mind.

This will rip the fabric of Universe around you to shreds. Can you really go about your life without constantly hearing their cries for mercy? Would becoming the judge and executioner be the only way to preserve your sanity - even if is your last breath on this planet? You are not in control here. In fact, you don’t serve this type of Vengeance; it serves you, an altar-sacrifice offered to faceless idols of inner justice.

Good subject.

[Fortis in Arduis]

I have generally found that the people whose actions I feel need correcting end up facing it in the end.

If revenge would not serve me, then I should best leave it alone. It can be hard to forgive, and I have nasty plans for someone nearly all of the time, but as I inferred they usually fuck themselves anyway.

It's not about honour for me, and I am happy to back-stab or wait for the right moment to passively screw my hate object. This is not clever and I do not recommend it either, but it has helped on a few occasions. At least I stayed within the law, but I still wasted my energy on it when they were already messing with themselves.

The best revenge is to self-success and happiness, rather than causing more disorder in a troubled world.

[Jake Featherston]

Revenge is immoral, and indicative of a childlike persona. Do the right thing always, don't play silly tit-for-tat games with people beneath your notice. Fight and die if you must in defense of what is right, but don't pick fights with people over perceived slights. Grow the Hell up, in other words.

[mymy]

Revenge has negative emotions in it. So, it means revenge is wrong. If someone do bad to me or my loved ones, why do i have to do the same? What will i get and solve by hurting him, if damage is already done to me? Will his negative act make me a bad person because i will want to take justice in my hand and give him back? Well, i know i will feel guilty after it. So i don't even want to think about any kind of revenge. Forgiveness is something i welcome much more... And i am not religious and Christianity or any religion doesn't have some place in my life. But, i want to base all i do on positive feelings. And i understand, sometimes we can't forgive and forget, sometimes it's hard to move on... but revenge is not what i would do or even plan.

[Flintlocke]

It should be applied intelligently and ruthlessly at the right moment. Nothing wrong with it. We had blood feuds in my area of origin for many ages.

[AussieScott]

It should be applied intelligently and ruthlessly at the right moment. Nothing wrong with it. We had blood feuds in my area of origin for many ages.

Trick is not being caught, or having something preventing a further feud so you can take your revenge out in the open. ;)

[rhiannon]

Knowing myself as I do, if someone were to kill my loved one in cold blood, it cannot be said with certainty that I'd be able to just let justice do its work. Invariably, in this country, justice is only so good as the lawyers the perp is able to afford:(

[Libertas]

Trick is not being caught, or having something preventing a further feud so you can take your revenge out in the open. ;)

The object of your revenge MUST know you are behind it and why you stooped to vengeance.

Otherwise revenge is pointless.:)

Justice of whatever stripe MUST BE SEEN TO BE DONE.

[AussieScott]

The object of your revenge MUST know you are behind it and why you stooped to vengeance.

Otherwise revenge is pointless.:)

Justice of whatever stripe MUST BE SEEN TO BE DONE.

Depends on the situation, novels could and probably have been written on revenge.

[Drawing-slim]

I have argued this in an albanian forum although many disagreed with me, i still believe that in the albanian case and its famous blood feuds this will have a possitive effect in a near future.

Many people have died for small things even, but i was visitng there recently and people seem so polite respctfull and friendly.
Specially in the area i grew up.

So friendly and polite infact, that an outsider visitor might confuse them as soft wimpy culture.
But they couldn't be more wrong.

Precisely the possitive effect is taking place already, there's no bulling in schools there's, no punk adults and everyone is tought to respect anyone however small their size, because everyone knows that anyone can kill you in albania.

[Hurrem sultana]

i believe in karma/universal justice

[Geronimo]

I have argued this in an albanian forum although many disagreed with me, i still believe that in the albanian case and its famous blood feuds this will have a possitive effect in a near future.

Many people have died for small things even, but i was visitng there recently and people seem so polite respctfull and friendly.
Specially in the area i grew up.

So friendly and polite infact, that an outsider visitor might confuse them as soft wimpy culture.
But they couldn't be more wrong.

Precisely the possitive effect is taking place already, there's no bulling in schools there's, no punk adults and everyone is tought to respect anyone however small their size, because everyone knows that anyone can kill you in albania.

The exact same thing happened in Japan :thumbs up

[Drawing-slim]

The exact same thing happened in Japan :thumbs upThank you seriously that you get my point on this. because most of my countryman on this one forum i discussed thought i was crazy of this idea, since they dont see the effects on the long run.

[Flintlocke]

One of my predecessors about 2 centuries ago left the village he was in and moved about 10 miles northwards because of a blood feud. The area was then a forest only used for hunting but he and his sons managed to grow strong economically because there was no outside interference and they had many ancestors, myself included, in turn creating a whole new village. So this is a case when a revenge indirectly brought about material wealth and a very powerful genetic inheritance.

[Bard]

I have argued this in an albanian forum although many disagreed with me, i still believe that in the albanian case and its famous blood feuds this will have a possitive effect in a near future.

Many people have died for small things even, but i was visitng there recently and people seem so polite respctfull and friendly.
Specially in the area i grew up.

So friendly and polite infact, that an outsider visitor might confuse them as soft wimpy culture.
But they couldn't be more wrong.

Precisely the possitive effect is taking place already, there's no bulling in schools there's, no punk adults and everyone is tought to respect anyone however small their size, because everyone knows that anyone can kill you in albania.
I agree with you.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing."
Robert. E. Howard :)

[Gaztelu]

We all desire retribution from those who hurt us.

However, the need for vengeance turns men into animals, and as we embark on the path for revenge, we slowly become absorbed by the rage inside, which stays with us like a parasite and slowly destroys the human soul, until those that have afflicted pain upon us have suffered.

[Loki]

I do not believe in revenge. People who are truly nasty will eventually get what they deserve. It is not up to me to make that decision, or act as judge, jury and executioner. Vengefulness and bitterness only harms oneself, I try my best to stay away from such emotions - and keep my heart pure.

I forgive easily, even those who have hurt me.

[Queen B]

Revenge will only hurt you, not the other. For me, there is no reason to put your energy to hurt someone that doesn't even deserve your time, let along ''plotting'' against him/her

Only once, to someone that broke my heart, I thought of getting a revenge, but after a while, I realized that he didn't even deserve this.At the end, having a wonderful life myself, was the best ''revenge'' , unintentionally.

[Loki]

Only once, to someone that broke my heart, I thought of getting a revenge, but after a while, I realized that he didn't even deserve this.

Yeah, I sometimes get these thoughts initially when angry (as in for example with my boss at work etc). But when I get time to reflect on stuff these emotions dissipate quickly. It's not worth it.

[Queen B]

Yeah, I sometimes get these thoughts initially when angry (as in for example with my boss at work etc). But when I get time to reflect on stuff these emotions dissipate quickly. It's not worth it.
When someone is hurt, in personal level or not, always those kind of thoughts run through your mind. What is best, is not to act while your blood boils.
Then you ll see that they don't deserve your time.
If you act in hurry, nothing good will turn out.

[Germanicus]

Sometimes people stupidly involve you in something that gets you in trouble, you are the innocent party, but circumstances are what they are and you are tarred with the same brush as him/she.
When this happens as did with me a few years ago there was a need for payback/revenge.
We had not worked with each other since the incident, but the person who was at the top of my list and had my full attention, were working together on a contract.
Suffice to say, this individual is no longer working for our company.:coffee:

[askra]

I would use revenge only for extreme cases, if I didn't get justice.

[mymy]

I actually never got thought about revenge. Never wanted it... I take things that happen like a life lecture and experience that, no matter how much bad is, will always teach me something and i could use it in future.

But i am very stable and calm person. And i take things with a lot of self-dignity. No one is worth of my nerves and i am not going to give attention to someone who doesn't deserve it. So, i won't even consider to think about that person and i will rather ignore and move on, instead to spend my precious time on planing revenge.

For that time, i can do something good for those who deserve it.

[Loki]

I would use revenge only for extreme cases, if I didn't get justice.

I have never acted on vengeful feelings, although if I ever did I'd probably make one of the worst enemies anyone can wish for :P

One of my close relatives was wronged by a German in his hunts in Africa before WW1. He became vengeful and was allegedly solely responsible for the sinking of the German cruiser SMS Königsberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Rufiji_Delta) during WW1, in which 33 German sailors died.

[Hevneren]

I felt an immense anger for a long time. In my mind I saw myself kill not out of revenge, but out of prevention and pure anger. I haven't felt this kind of despair, anger and hatred before, and it drove me to feel a strong need to avenge and seek justice. I had fantasies of torturing the perpetrator, just to see him suffer for his crimes. I was not the only one to feel that way.

I don't think I can ever accept of forget what happened, nor can I ever feel anything but hatred and revulsion for the perpetrator. In all honesty, I want that person to suffer, and to feel guilt and disgust with himself before he dies.

[Anthropologique]

Seeking revenge just exacerbates things. Negativity inevitably leads to more negativity - a vicious cycle.

[Wanderlust]

I would consider it only if someone hurt my family irreversibly. I don't condone violence, and I believe in the concept of justice, but in that case I know that it wouldn't be enough for me.

[Pallantides]

If anyone in my family was killed, raped or hurt, the perpetrators would not be able to hide, we'd chase them to hell.
I was brought up with the mentality that if you leave us alone we'll leave you alone, but if you do anything to harm any of us, we will come after you.



Some years ago one of my cousins was in an abusive relationship, her boyfriend was beating her, when my uncle found out he gathered some friends and family members, they picked him up brought him to a barn and beat the crap out of him, they didn't hear much from him after that.

[Queen B]

Oh, now you got to another meaning of revenge. Payback someone who harmed a loving one, is not considered revenge on my books, but justice:D

[Magyar the Conqueror]

I believe in it.
What must be done will be done.

[Loki]

I believe in it.
What must be done will be done.

Woe betide Romania! :eek:

[Mordid]

Only if the other person REALLY deserves it..

[Lumi]

I fully intend to get revenge somehow on the guy that sexually assaulted me. He deserves it.

[Queen B]

I fully intend to get revenge somehow on the guy that sexually assaulted me. He deserves it.

This is justice. And if I could help you pay him back, I would gladly do.

[Loki]

I fully intend to get revenge somehow on the guy that sexually assaulted me. He deserves it.

Yes, justice (as dandelion mentioned) is the only workable way to get back at him. Anything over and above of that can certainly be wished for, but would not serve your own interests well.

[SaxonCeorl]

I guess revenge is something that is hard to resist when it comes to serious, grievous wrongs, but when it comes to small, petty insults, it's often best to just ignore it. Nothing is more frustrating and embarrasing than when the person you're trying to insult doesn't even know or care who you are :thumb001:

[Lumi]

Yes, justice (as dandelion mentioned) is the only workable way to get back at him. Anything over and above of that can certainly be wished for, but would not serve your own interests well.

The justice system of the UK failed me.
He's walking away a free man.

[Loki]

The justice system of the UK failed me.
He's walking away a free man.

That is unfortunate :(

However, anything more from your side - which could harm him - could be illegal and you don't need more problems from that chapter of your life. I am not one to preach to you, however. Just my two pennies, I have no clue what you went through, and as a man would probably never be able to understand fully either. I just don't want you to compound your own misery. :(

[Susi]

I wait patiently until the right opportunity for a lighthanded push in the wrong direction.

<-- bad person. :)

[Teyrn]

Revenge brutalizes whoever practices it.

[Germanicus]

A young guy that had just finished his apprenticeship was sent on a contract that i was involved with.
As a senior operative i was given the task of picking up each member of our team in a vehicle and making sure we arrived on time at work each morning.
Seeings i had the vehicle i got up earlier than all in my team and drove all over my town collecting them.
The young guy in question was always a problem, he would take 10-15 minutes to come out of his house.
The other guys hated him, and always encouraged me to leave him, i ignored them and always waited patiently.
Then one day i noticed an important item of my kit had gone missing, nobody in our team would have taken it except this new guy, it was obvious but i did not accuse him as he would have denied it and that would have shown my hand.
So i played it very clever, instead of waiting for him each morning i would just give him 1 minute then drove off leaving him.
As a result he would have to have got himself to work, and his time would be deducted.
Also at meal breaks i would stand in a position where i could see him leave his work station, then go over to his tool box and help myself to an item of his kit, then quickly throw it into a bin leaving no evidence of my crime.
This carried on for a while.....until he was made redundant.:coffee:

[Mortimer]

not in revenge, but certainly in justice. a killer, raper, child molester etc. needs to be put to justice certainly.

[Lumi]

That is unfortunate :(

However, anything more from your side - which could harm him - could be illegal and you don't need more problems from that chapter of your life. I am not one to preach to you, however. Just my two pennies, I have no clue what you went through, and as a man would probably never be able to understand fully either. I just don't want you to compound your own misery. :(

All I know is that he had better watch his back.
It's not just physical attacks that he should be afraid of.

[Loki]

All I know is that he had better watch his back.
It's not just physical attacks that he should be afraid of.

Be careful, darling :( Do not protract the damage of this horrible experience, it won't help you in the end but may even cause you more problems. :( Not preaching to you, just being papa Loki as PetiteParisienne so unflatteringly gave me that age-insulting attributing designation! :p