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View Full Version : What's the proportion of Black and Amerindian admixture in the average White Brazilian?



Wolf
05-23-2013, 01:09 PM
As far as I know, Brazil has promoted racial mxing in former times, and there haven't been any laws preventing this like in the USA. According to official statistics, approx. 45% of today's Brazilian population are considering themselves as "White". But if racial mixing has been promoted in former times this amount seems questionable to me.

So, I was wondering about the proportion of Black and Amerindian admixture in the average White Brazilian.

Perhaps someone can clarify this issue.

Gauthier
05-23-2013, 04:13 PM
Negro admixture seems to be higher on average for the general population.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2w4hdtx.png

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0017063?imageURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0017063.g002

istripador
05-23-2013, 04:53 PM
As far as I know, Brazil has promoted racial mxing in former times, and there haven't been any laws preventing this like in the USA. According to official statistics, approx. 45% of today's Brazilian population are considering themselves as "White". But if racial mixing has been promoted in former times this amount seems questionable to me.

So, I was wondering about the proportion of Black and Amerindian admixture in the average White Brazilian.

Perhaps someone can clarify this issue.

é impossível saber porque o governo não pergunta raça e sim cor apenas, qualquer um pode se declarar branco. classe é raça estão muito interligados então vai variar de acordo com a classe social, a mistura com nativos aconteceu mais no seculo 16 e 17 quando eles eram um grande numero da população, qualquer um que se parece "branco" pode se declarar assim independente da ascendência, raça é uma coisa banalizada no brasil

curupira
05-23-2013, 04:56 PM
This plot depicts the autosomal composition of Brazil, the whole composition of Brazil ("blacks", "pardos" and "whites" included, according to their average proportions), european ancestry is the most important in all Brazilian regions, followed by ssa african and native american ancestries; in the north the native american input is higher.


http://i40.tinypic.com/2w4hdtx.png

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0017063?imageURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0017063.g002

If you want to have a look at how individual Brazilians score (compared to other Latin American countries), you can check it here:

23andme V3 results:
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/29933-Latin-Americans-23andme-results?highlight=Madeira

The new updated version (ancestry composition results):
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/39137-Ancestry-composition-results-of-Brazilians

I'm an individual from the deep interior rural impoverished parts of Brazil, with a very overwhelming degree of colonial background (31/32, tracing back to the very first settlers of Brazil, ~year 1500) and I scored 97% european on the V3 version of 23andme and 95% european on the new 23andme ancestry composition version, a result on par with what Afrikaners and even some european americans score (Loki, f.e, scored 96% european). The vast majority of it is Southern European (all or nearly all Iberian ancestry as far as I know and from what I can infer from my results, tracing back to the first settlers of Brazil; except for one 1/32 ancestor, who was German, they all settled here in the 1500 to 1800 period). I consider my ancestry/score relatively interesting and informative, and it is on par with what I have seen Afrikaners f.e to score with the new tool. Many other Brazilians of colonial background have scored like me. Native american and ssa african contributions are roughly the same on my own case, as among the other ones I have seen, sometimes one is lower sometimes the other. There are many individuals of fully european ancestry in Brazil, since we received later immigrants, and many communities are relatively isolated given the size of our country. I have seen German Brazilians, f.e, to score fully european, and their ancestors arrived in the early to middle XIX century (or 5 to 6 generations ago). However, the very mast majority of Brazilians, "black", "pardo" or "white" do have all the three ancestries, just in varying degrees.

BLUEU
05-23-2013, 04:58 PM
According to this study, self-identified Whites in Rio de Janeiro are 86.4% European, 6.9% African, and 6.7% American on average.

http://www.laboratoriogene.com.br/geneImprensa/2009/pensamento.pdf

ChocolateFace
05-23-2013, 04:58 PM
I was surprised when I realized there are a lot of unmixed white Brazilians. A lot.

istripador
05-23-2013, 04:59 PM
Negro admixture seems to be higher on average for the general population.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2w4hdtx.png

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0017063?imageURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0017063.g002

essas amostras são muito pequenas para falar em geral

istripador
05-23-2013, 05:01 PM
According to this study, self-identified Whites in Rio are 86.4% European, 6.9% African, and 6.7% American on average.

http://www.laboratoriogene.com.br/geneImprensa/2009/pensamento.pdf

qualquer um pode se identificar como branco independente de ter mistura ou não não leve esse teste a serio

Wolf
05-23-2013, 08:00 PM
é impossível saber porque o governo não pergunta raça e sim cor apenas, qualquer um pode se declarar branco. classe é raça estão muito interligados então vai variar de acordo com a classe social, a mistura com nativos aconteceu mais no seculo 16 e 17 quando eles eram um grande numero da população, qualquer um que se parece "branco" pode se declarar assim independente da ascendência, raça é uma coisa banalizada no brasil

I'm a bit out of training in Portuguese. Do you mind to translate your post?



I was surprised when I realized there are a lot of unmixed white Brazilians. A lot.

And where did you make this discovery?

ChocolateFace
05-23-2013, 08:09 PM
And where did you make this discovery?

Extensive research

Diërker
05-23-2013, 08:10 PM
They need to go back to Africa. Niggers should not be allowed here, They need to go work on farms and plantations like the good ole' days :D

Dombra
05-23-2013, 08:13 PM
Cant they dump the niggers in the jungle? They would feel like home

Diërker
05-23-2013, 08:31 PM
Cant they dump the niggers in the jungle? They would feel like home

All niggers do is fight, they need to get the fuck off this planet

Smaug
05-24-2013, 06:51 PM
That depends very much on what you call "White Brazilian".

Wolf
05-24-2013, 07:10 PM
That depends very much on what you call "White Brazilian".

Because the classification is subjective that's difficult to answer.

What do you regard as "White Brazilian"?

Smaug
05-24-2013, 08:22 PM
Because the classification is subjective that's difficult to answer.

What do you regard as "White Brazilian"?

Someone of 100% European descent, like Brazilians from Southern and Sotheastern parts of the country.

istripador
05-25-2013, 03:49 AM
Someone of 100% European descent, like Brazilians from Southern and Sotheastern parts of the country.

então a maioria dos afrikaners não são branco, a esmagadora maioria deles estão misturados em diversos graus com negro e asiáticos, o próprio dono do fórum é um com 3% não europeu no DNA, então porque afrikaners pode ser branco mas um cubano, argentino, uruguaio e brasileiros não podem ser branco por ter mistura?

Smaug
05-25-2013, 12:26 PM
então a maioria dos afrikaners não são branco, a esmagadora maioria deles estão misturados em diversos graus com negro e asiáticos, o próprio dono do fórum é um com 3% não europeu no DNA, então porque afrikaners pode ser branco mas um cubano, argentino, uruguaio e brasileiros não podem ser branco por ter mistura?

Very good point!

Peyrol
05-25-2013, 12:33 PM
25-33 million of italian brazilians...almost half of our current population.


Btw, white brazilians by state:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Brazilian_States_by_Race.svg

I'm surprised about Mato Gross do Sul...

istripador
05-25-2013, 06:30 PM
25-33 million of italian brazilians...almost half of our current population.


Btw, white brazilians by state:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Brazilian_States_by_Race.svg

I'm surprised about Mato Gross do Sul...

não no máximo entre 10 e 15 milhões de brasileiros tem sangue italiano incluindo pessoas misturados com pardos.

Peyrol
05-25-2013, 06:32 PM
não no máximo entre 10 e 15 milhões de brasileiros tem sangue italiano incluindo pessoas misturados com pardos.

Are you sure?

I know plenty of pure italobrazilians of Sao Paulo, Santa Catarina, Rio Grande do Sul and Paranà.

What surprise me is Mato Grosso do Sul ''Branco''...i thought was majority Pardo...

istripador
05-25-2013, 07:01 PM
Are you sure?

I know plenty of pure italobrazilians of Sao Paulo, Santa Catarina, Rio Grande do Sul and Paranà.

What surprise me is Mato Grosso do Sul ''Branco''...i thought was majority Pardo...

puro sangue italiano no brasil não chegam a 1 milhão, esse mapa mostra auto declaração de branco então não leve ele a serio

curupira
05-26-2013, 01:22 AM
Mato Grosso do Sul has received immigration from Southern Brazil, Southern Brazil has a tradition of smaller farmers, and there were big families not too long ago, hence the diaspora. During our military regime many were settled all the way from Mato Grosso do Sul through Mato Grosso up to Rondônia. I once dated a girl in Campo Grande, she was part Dutch and part Italian, from Paraná. Her family had moved to Campo Grande.

Gaúcho diaspora:

http://i43.tinypic.com/f3ib9w.png

The governor of Mato Grosso do Sul, by the way, is Italian, from Tuscany, his name is Andre Puccinelli (from Viareggio):
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9_Puccinelli

http://www.brazilplanet.info/imgpub/img85950_0_0.jpg

As for Italian communities, Brazil is the only one as far as I know to have so many over 90% smaller Italian cities. I visited Nova Trento and I was amazed at how Italian the city is. Nova Veneza is another example of what I'm talking about. They are both in Santa Catarina. Venda Nova do Imigrante in Espírito Santo and Caxias do Rio Grande do Sul are two other examples.

There are several smaller cities which are almost entirely settled by Italian descendants. As I said, I've been to Nova Trento once (http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_Trento), and it was quite a different experience for myself, nearly everyone I saw there looked very Italian, it was founded in the XIX century by Northern Italian immigrants.

Pics of Nova Veneza, a town like the ones I'm talking about:


Nova Veneza (a Portuguese name meaning "New Venice"") is a Brazilian town located in Santa Catarina, Southern Brazil. It has 12,703 inhabitants and was settled by Italian immigrants from Venice in 1891. People of Italian descent make up 95% of the population.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_Veneza,_Santa_Catarina

The local legislative assembly members (vereadores):
http://www.cvnv.sc.gov.br/vereadores.php

http://www.cvnv.sc.gov.br/img/vereadores/lodejani-zanoni.jpg
http://www.cvnv.sc.gov.br/img/vereadores/pazetto.jpg
http://www.psdb-sc.org.br/arquivos/representantes/representantes/WD9RB8SW.jpg
http://www.psdb-sc.org.br/arquivos/representantes/representantes/CQ6MY4QQ.jpg
http://www.cvnv.sc.gov.br/img/vereadores/ze-spillere.jpg
http://www.cvnv.sc.gov.br/img/vereadores/edgar-preis.jpg
http://www.cvnv.sc.gov.br/img/vereadores/silvino-moreli.jpg
http://www.cvnv.sc.gov.br/noticias/_files/Image/Materia%20de%20capa/Ronconi.jpg

Random pics:

http://talian.net.br/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Grupo_Roba_da_ciodi-Nova_veneza_SC-01.jpg
http://www.radiocriciuma.com.br/imagens_editor/nova_veneza_garotas.jpg
http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Brasil/foto/0,,14746398,00.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/avo12w.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/alitqp.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/2w4jxqx.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/90ucth.jpg
http://www.novaveneza.sc.gov.br/turismo/evento/detalhe/codEvento/images/files/thumbs/10066_resize_fixo_576_432.jpg

Are you sure?

I know plenty of pure italobrazilians of Sao Paulo, Santa Catarina, Rio Grande do Sul and Paranà.

What surprise me is Mato Grosso do Sul ''Branco''...i thought was majority Pardo...

SchwarzenCatzz
05-28-2013, 11:45 PM
if brazil have 25 % of it's population being 100% white it's more than expected