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Beorn
09-12-2009, 02:46 PM
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/bank-genes-cloning-1.jpg


Fictional characters have a habit of popping up again after unpopular deaths. From comic *book superheroes to sultry soap opera stars, you just can't keep a good hero down. Leaf through history books and you'll find any number of legendary kings and saviours slated for an eventual return as well.

But what if death weren't the end in real life, too? What if we could bring back some of the world's most extraordinary figures? Could Albert Einstein help us to solve the energy crisis? What kind of album could Ludwig van Beethoven produce in a modern recording studio?
While such notions were previously the domain of fantasy and mysticism, modern science has finally reached the point where such tales of resurrection might have a real-world counterpart: human gene banks (http://science.howstuffworks.com/gene-bank.htm). After all, much of who we are boils down to our genes. These little tidbits of information are located on strands of DNA (http://science.howstuffworks.com/dna.htm) in every cell in the human body. This means that if you had a sample of Einstein's DNA, you'd essentially have a biological blueprint for his brain.

This is where the prospect of cloning enters the picture. Human cloning is currently outlawed in numerous countries, but scientists have successfully produced genetic copies of various animals and could hypothetically perform the same procedure with human genetic material. Forget the movie images of full-grown zombie (http://science.howstuffworks.com/zombie.htm) men emerging from stainless steel vats of embryonic fluid. These human clones would be normal infants, each brought to term by a human mother. The only difference is that the reproduction is asexual instead of sexual. Scientists would take a donated egg, fuse it with* a cell (http://science.howstuffworks.com/cell.htm) from the person to be cloned and then implant it in the mother. This procedure is known as somatic cell nuclear transfer. Some scientists even think we could clone individuals who are currently dead, provided enough genetic material has been preserved. For more on these issues, read How Human Cloning Will Work (http://science.howstuffworks.com/human-cloning.htm).

The resulting clone baby would have none of the memories or experiences of its clone parent. But genetically, it would be identical -- meaning that a clone of Einstein would possess the same mental advantages the original possessed at birth.
Sound like a good idea? Well, not everyone's excited about going to Einstein II's baby shower.

Cloning the Best: Arguments Against Gene Banks

To put it lightly, human cloning is controversial. Major religions, global organizations and entire countries have banned its research, despite the various medical benefits human cloning offers. While some of their concerns are health-related, objections often come down to ethical or religious stances. For the purposes of this article, we'll put aside some of these larger ethical concerns and focus on the potential pros and cons of banking extraordinary genes for future cloning.

The main argument against the creation of such a bank can be summed up in one existential question: What makes me who I am? While genetics contributes a great deal to the answer, there's no getting past that we're all shaped by our experiences. It's the old nature vs. nurture debate. A clone might be born with all the genetic charms of a great scholar or athlete, but his or her subsequent upbringing, education, environment and relationships might steer the person any number of ways.

After all, is the biological child of two talented individuals guaranteed any of the drive or happiness possessed by his or her parents? Think of all the tiny decisions, influences and bits of pure chance that made you who you are today -- if any one of these had chanced to go a different route, how drastically different might your life be?
Another related argument against the cloning of extraordinary individuals is the extraordinary pressure it could put on the children to match up to their clone parents. Critics argue that this and other methods of genetic tinkering would create an atmosphere more akin to racehorse breeding than healthy parenting.

Some critics also fear that such genetic practices are nothing more than a return to the failed science of eugenics, the controlled breeding of human beings to improve the hereditary qualities. During the early 20th century, eugenics programs in the United States were responsible for the involuntary sterilization of thousands. Nazi Germany followed suit, instituting sterilization programs and eventually attempting to eliminate Jewish and non-Aryan populations. Might the banking of extraordinary genes for cloning purposes constitute the establishment of a new master race?
Another major issue to consider is that the human race is still evolving. While some biologists previously said we stopped evolving 50,000 years ago, researchers have identified more than 700 human genes that have evolved over the last 10,000 years. Researchers are just beginning to understand why and how we evolve, so why should we consider ourselves a finished product?

But the supporters of creating a top-shelf gene bank have a few points on their side as well, including the fact that these banks, in essence, already exist.

Bring on the Clones: Arguments for Gene Banks

Banks of extraordinary genes already exist. We just call them sperm banks (http://health.howstuffworks.com/sperm-bank.htm). As these establishments are in the business of providing quality genetic material to women who need help conceiving, they're discerning with their donors. Sperm banks generally screen donors on a basis of height, education, age and medical history.

In 1980, Robert Graham advanced the concept and founded the Repository for Germinal Choice -- or, as it came to be known, the "Nobel Prize sperm bank." So the idea of saving genetic material from exceptional human specimens is nothing new. We're already doing it. We're just combining the material with the mother's genes. Cloning (http://science.howstuffworks.com/cloning.htm) removes the need for the mother's genes to enter into the picture at all, making her the child's physical mother, but not his or her genetic parent.

And if we did clone these banked individuals? The resulting children would indeed be products of their environment and upbringing, each with their own sense of individuality. They would also have distinct genetic advantages, even if they ultimately squandered them. Parents already can screen pregnancies for genetic disorders such as Down syndrome. Advocates could argue that giving parents the chance to choose the best genes possible for their children is a (giant) step in the same direction.

As for the argument that parents might place unfair expectations on a child cloned from an extraordinary person, supporters point out that such situations are common with children anyway. Many parents push their children to succeed or live vicariously through their achievements. Is a child more prone to mistreatment or love based on who his genetic parent or parents are?

The larger issue of human cloning itself will continue to be a topic of great ethical debate in the decades to come. But if the practice becomes legal and accepted, then the stockpiling of prime genetic material for future cloning will likely happen as an extension of current trends.

Source (http://science.howstuffworks.com/genetic-science/human-gene-bank3.htm)

Poltergeist
09-12-2009, 02:53 PM
Based on wrong premises. As if the extraordinariness of these people were due to genes only.

One of the signs of the ridiculous and stupid genolatria (gene worship) reigning among many people.

Loki
09-12-2009, 03:04 PM
No. Because those genes will be outdated and will have missed out on evolutionary processes by the time in the future when they will want to be used.

Come to think of it, I think preserving mine and that of Richard Dawkins would be a good idea. :D

Grumpy Cat
09-12-2009, 03:04 PM
Just because they have the same genes doesn't mean they will be the same, because environment comes to play in that. For example, if you had John Lennon's DNA and you cloned him, chances are he wouldn't be the musician the original was because it was environment that inspired him too.

Plus, they also cloned a cat, which they called "CC" (carbon copy), a tortoise shell cat, and CC didn't have the same markings as the original cat because those markings are partially dependent on environment.

So no, not much of a point.

Although cloning hot guys would be useful. :D

Jägerstaffel
09-12-2009, 03:26 PM
I think we should use the technology we have in whatever way we can to increase our potential as a species.

So, it can't hurt to try.

Liffrea
09-12-2009, 03:33 PM
Genes provide the potential, intelligence, skeletal form, height etc are dependent on inheritance but they also require stimulus (nurture) cloning Einstein does not an Einstein make, Einstein was a product of nurture as well as nature.

Skandi
09-12-2009, 03:37 PM
No for the reasons mentioned above, and the fact that who would decide who is exceptional?

Liffrea
09-12-2009, 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by Thrymheim
and the fact that who would decide who is exceptional?

That would be me.;)

I have a list around here somewhere……..ah yes they’re all female…with double what!:D

Cato
09-13-2009, 03:12 PM
http://www.desktopexchange.com/gallery/albums/Star-Wars-wallpaper/Star_Wars_attack_of_the_clones_6.jpg

Barreldriver
10-01-2009, 08:56 PM
I voted yes. We can always use these clones for "Drones" for world domination! :D

Absinthe
10-01-2009, 09:00 PM
Of course. ;)

http://www.snowbooks.com/weblog/pinky_brain.jpg

Mesrine
10-01-2009, 09:19 PM
Useless, because extraordinary people have ordinary genes.

Frigga
10-02-2009, 01:38 AM
Maybe those who are universally acknowledged as being truly great people could donate genetic material, ie ovum or sperm to help create a better breed of humans, or to help those who are infertile. But trying to recreate people that have already lived and died? Not possible, or a good idea.

Jägerstaffel
10-02-2009, 02:30 AM
Who decides who is superior?

Hrolf Kraki
10-02-2009, 03:05 AM
I vote no. I'm weary about having my DNA on file.

Vargtand
10-02-2009, 03:16 AM
Nah screw that, firstly it would be to weird concerning the ethics. then the big issue, some people seem to think that the enviroment affects the outcome of the genes, thats just pure nonesense, that the cat that was cloned had a different set of markings were due to the nature of genetics, it is for the very same reason that I carry the genes necessary to be blue eyed, but also carry the genes of being greeneyed, (as an example) one version of me may be blue eyed, an other may be green eyed because those variants are possible with my genetic make up, thus it is possible to have two versions of me that look and behave extremely different from each others but carry the same genetic make up,that is not due to environmental circumstances, that comes down to chance. Come on people 3rd grade biology here.

Gwynyvyr
10-02-2009, 10:14 AM
I think it would be a good idea.
Look, we bank seeds in case of disaster, saving only the best of each species. Zoos are a repository of the genetics for a massive amount of species and breeding programs have brought serveral species back from the brink of extinction.

Why should we not?
Maybe not for cloning a specific individual, but saving specific racial and ethnic types that are getting closer to extinction would be a reason.
I have read that redheads (gingers to you Brits) may become extinct within the next 100 to 200 years because it is such a recessive gene.
How sad a world without redheads would be!

Continued encroachment of immigrants from sub-Sahara Africa and the Middle East into Europe and the resultant cross breeding with the more or less *indigenous* folks there is endangering the existence of many ethnic types long seen in Europe. The birth rate for European natives is down, the birth rates for immigrants is way up.
The same thing is happening in the USA.
It would be nice if at some future date, a woman of European descent could access a sperm bank or an ovum bank if she was unable to produce her own ova, and be secure in the knowledge that her child will be of the same ethnic group as she.
Fertility rates are down...men seem to make less sperm, whether it is due to pollution or a garbage filled diet, I don't know. Women's fertility is down as well.
It makes sense that we would want to preserve our peoples.
We spend billions doing the same for animals and plants...why would we do less for people?

Absinthe
10-02-2009, 10:59 AM
It is a counter-evolutionary idea, I don't like it...

If the world is meant to degenerate and deteriorate then there's not much we can do about it. It's just another cosmic cycle to me. :wink

Aemma
10-02-2009, 12:42 PM
It is a counter-evolutionary idea, I don't like it...

If the world is meant to degenerate and deteriorate then there's not much we can do about it. It's just another cosmic cycle to me. :wink

Yep agree 100%!!

Besides "extraordinariness" is in the eye of the beholder. There is no such objective thing. What is seen as extraordinary one day may be viewed as anathema the next.

People are fickle and people are stupid. Let nature do what it is intended to do shall we and stop screwing around with it.

Liffrea
10-02-2009, 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by Al-Frankawi
Useless, because extraordinary people have ordinary genes.

The reason why many creative people like Vincent Van Gogh show self-destructive tendencies is in the genes, researchers have discovered. Scientists in a new study found that volunteers identified as the most creative also had the highest levels of a gene variant associated with psychosis and depression, the Daily Telegraph reports.

http://www.newser.com/story/70611/genius-madness-linked-to-gene.html

I found this quite interesting.

My oldest brother, myself and my youngest nephew all have above average IQ’s (not genius level but high) and we have all suffered from obsessive compulsive disorder. OCD is quite a common condition so the connection may be more apparent than real but it does seem interesting.

And don't contradict me, I can't afford another keyboard!:D

Barreldriver
10-04-2009, 03:27 AM
Maybe we could use these "superior peoples genes" to make "superior supper"? :D End world hunger! Feed clones to Ethiopians! :D