North african "whiteness" false myth

[Peyrol]

I don't know why, but on this forum there is the false fallacy that north africans are some kind of "european-like people".

False; i have 75,000 of these shits on my city and these are their average looks.


***pictures deleted because members quote only this and dont' read 50 pages of discussions with tons of pictures.

For the God's sake, read the thread, it's so difficult? ****

[Peyrol]

You have chosen particular "ugly" ones.
The average Arab is looking better. But you are right and I have posted
it before. There is a big gap between Mediteranian looking Europeans and
North African Berberids or Arabs, even if many TA members deny it.

Northafric. aren't, in the average, neither pure arab neither pure berberid: average northafrican is 25% negro.

Members deny this without have never seen a single one i her/his entire life, especially american idiots which knowlege is based on movies or late '800 books.

[Methmatician]

Most of them look Caucasian.

[Peyrol]

Most of them look Caucasian.

Pseudo caucasoid, al least, not definitely "caucasian" :lol:


And the average northafrican is 25% negro.

http://world-countries.net/files/2011/02/75d7ab1f9e2b48be81637fa9d5d62689.jpg

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/timesonline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/6f/46fef327-7813-50f6-b43e-2243f879ebc2/4e10f58eeb3b5.image.jpg

http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20111217/Baqeri_d20111217094026200.jpg

[Methmatician]

Yeah I know, 25% Negro. They just look Caucasian. There are a lot of Black-White people who look predominantly black.

[Peyrol]

http://www.webislam.com/media/2005/04/15870_hassan%20kettani_big.jpg

http://m2.paperblog.com/i/18/181016/i-marocchini-e-i-neri-un-razzismo-depoca-L-nuzZSz.jpeg

http://www.bergamosera.com/cms/wp-content/uploads/cache/91537_NpAdvHover.jpg

http://www.venetouno.it/media/imggall/big/news.jpg

http://isaac.guidasicilia.it/foto/news/cronaca/rivolta_immigrati_lampedusa_N.jpg

[Methmatician]

http://www.upf.edu/enoticies/1112/_img/nordafricans.jpg

[Peyrol]

http://www.upf.edu/enoticies/1112/_img/nordafricans.jpg

:lol:

Some of the famous blonde berbers....10,000 people in an area of 70,000,000 people.

There are 1 millions of moroccans/tunisian/lybic in Italy and no-one look european, i see 75,000 of these shits everyday in the streets of my city :lol:

[safinator]

Definitely one of the most funny myths on Anthroforums.

[Rereg]

Most of them look Caucasian.

Yes but they haven't european ("white") apperance.

[Peyrol]

Definitely one of the most funny myths on Anthroforums.

Yes, in all the antropological forums there is this absurd credence...created probabily by people who never seen a single one in their entire life or by some same north africans who cherrypiks some light skinned blond berber (lol, i never seen any of them neither when i was in Morocco and in Lybia). :lol:

You lived in Italy Saf, you know how much we are infested by these negroarabs.

[Peyrol]

See these groups of illegals maghrebi which landed in Lampedusa and tell me how european they are :lol:

https://www.google.it/search?q=immigrati%20lampedusa&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:it:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=it&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=V0vHT42jCoG2-wavssnODg&biw=1600&bih=796&sei=XUvHT6_RK4bjtQbb8sD_Dg

[zlakopistou]

The myth has nothing to do with North Africans, it's people of euro/american descent on ze internet who see the world as white/mixed/brown/black/yellow/red...

Only retarded people identify as "white" anyway, including Italians.


As for the pictures, it's very easy to cherry-pick ugly or mixed populations, just like everybody on this forum cherry-pick the best looking young female (faggots' choice) with makeup to represent european populations.


Finally, to be objective, I just checked a recent paper on craniofacial variation:
The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form (http://www.pnas.org/content/103/1/242/F3.expansion.html)

http://www.pnas.org/content/103/1/242/F1.large.jpg

OMG! Modern Italians cluster with modern North Africans (and ME)...


When groups that are close to each other in the dendrogram in Fig. 1 are combined to make a single dendrogram twig, the picture is simplified, but much the same conclusion is supported. Czech, Denmark, England, Etruscan, Finn/Sami, France, Germany, Iceland, Norway, Sardinia, and Swiss samples are combined to make a sample designated as “Modern Europe.” Algeria, Berber, Greece, Iran/Iraq, Italy, Morocco, Sicily, and Tunisia samples were combined to generate a “Modern Mediterranean” twig

http://www.pnas.org/content/103/1/242/F3.large.jpg

[Prince Carlo]

Funny article isn't it?

[Comte Arnau]

Well, I kind of disagree here.

The Caucasoidness (I avoid the term "whiteness") of native Berbers in the Maghreb is true, not a myth. What is false is the frequency, as most North Africans are partially mixed with other Africans. It is quite likely, though, that they look much swarthier in Italy than in Iberia, as I'm guessing many there are from Lybia and Egypt, while here most are from the Rif. Yet they are easily distinguishable all the same in most cases.

I don't know the figures about North Africans descending from Moriscos or people influenced by European colonials in the 19th/20th centuries. But again I'm sure they're more in northern Morocco and Algeria than in Lybia and Egypt.

This is what I consider a Berber Caucasoid.

http://es.hibamusic.com/ajouter2/files_uploded/photos_artiste/full_size/aziz-el-berkani-1744-23282-8799434.jpghttp://a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/118/551c553a915e4239b6a845d2055c368d/l.jpg

[Peyrol]

North-Africa has been conquered and colonized by various European powers throughout history.
There still are remnants of Europid stock left from these hegemonies which may account for the lighter appearances of some locals.

Khabilians and other light berber are less than 8% of the total maghrebi population.


The myth has nothing to do with North Africans, it's people of euro/american descent on ze internet who see the world as white/mixed/brown/black/yellow/red...

Only retarded people identify as "white" anyway, including Italians.


As for the pictures, it's very easy to cherry-pick ugly or mixed populations, just like everybody on this forum cherry-pick the best looking young female (faggots' choice) with makeup to represent european populations.


Finally, to be objective, I just checked a recent paper on craniofacial variation:
The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form (http://www.pnas.org/content/103/1/242/F3.expansion.html)

http://www.pnas.org/content/103/1/242/F1.large.jpg

OMG! Modern Italians cluster with modern North Africans (and ME)...



http://www.pnas.org/content/103/1/242/F3.large.jpg


Aahahaha pictures taken in Morocco squares are "cherrypiking":lol:?

Come here to my city and see the truth, moldovan.
Ancient neolithic northafricans have very few to do with modern northafricans, wich are a mix of europoids, arabids and subsaharians.

Ah, another thing "italian ethnicity" don't exist. :lol:



It's funny see foreigners talk about some ethnicity without living in a city where these ethncities are diffuses :lol:

[Mortimer]

do you have gypsies in your city as well, do they look different then northafricans, can you distinguish the two and if so how? because there is a theory that gypsies are descendant of egyptians, it was proposed in the middle ages and lasted up until 2 centuries ago where it was discovered that gypsies are from India, not that i believe they are from egypt but probably there was a physical resemblance to old egyptians if europeans thought they are from egypt. any thoughts?

[Peyrol]

do you have gypsies in your city as well, do they look different then northafricans, can you distinguish the two and if so how? because there is a theory that gypsies are descendant of egyptians, it was proposed in the middle ages and lasted up until 2 centuries ago where it was discovered that gypsies are from India, not that i believe they are from egypt but probably there was a physical resemblance to old egyptians if europeans thought they are from egypt. any thoughts?

I heard this gypsy legend, of the two "gypsy Adam and Eve" , but i sincerely don't believe in this.

Average rom gypsy here (excluding the two tribes of Sintu and Kalderanos wich are here since 1400) look a mix between slavs and mideasterns.

[Dilberth]

North Africans I saw in Italy are at least 25%Negroid.

[Sikeliot]

Tunisians, at least, do not look 25% black African to me, but Moroccans usually do.

[Peyrol]

North Africans I saw in Italy are at least 25%Negroid.

That's what i mean, because many of them are from Marocco and Lybia.

It's funny see people writing "north africans look sardinians, sicilians, greeks, balkanic, albos, etc" when they haven't never seen in reality the average looking of these people.

[Comte Arnau]

do you have gypsies in your city as well, do they look different then northafricans, can you distinguish the two and if so how? because there is a theory that gypsies are descendant of egyptians, it was proposed in the middle ages and lasted up until 2 centuries ago where it was discovered that gypsies are from India, not that i believe they are from egypt but probably there was a physical resemblance to old egyptians if europeans thought they are from egypt. any thoughts?

They really came into Europe from Egypt. But not the one we think about, but from Little Egypt, a region from Asia Minor between Greece and Turkey. Hence the names Gypsy and gitano (< egiptano).

[Peyrol]

They really came into Europe from Egypt. But not the one we think about, but from Little Egypt, a region from Asia Minor between Greece and Turkey. Hence the names Gypsy and gitano (< egiptano).

I thought they came into Europe passing from Kostantinopolis.

[Sikeliot]

Moroccans and Egyptians are the blackest looking North Africans, the ones from Tunisia and Algeria do not tend to look as black.

[Anthropologique]

The vast majority of people in North Africa who claim to be "Berber" are only culturally so. At best, ~ 15% of the North African population is true Berber. Such people are largely endogamous and, consequently, have preserved their original genome structures over time.

The vast majority of N. Africans are heavily mixed with negroid elements and, less so, Arab. They are nowhere near genetically and phenotypically to the original inhabitants of North Africa.

[Peyrol]

Moroccans and Egyptians are the blackest looking North Africans, the ones from Tunisia and Algeria do not tend to look as black.

Whitest algerians are the Khabilians (like Zinedine Zidane), southern algerians (Touaregh and other tribes like the Sahara Hausa) are very dark, something 40% europid (berber), 30% negro, 30% arab.

I had an algerian touaregh bodybuilder in my old gym, and he was very dark looking with the typical negroid "arrow nose".

[Peyrol]

The vast majority of people in North Africa who claim to be "Berber" are only cultural so. At best ~ 15% of the North African population is true Berber. Such people are largely endogamous and, consequently, have preserved their original genome structures over time.

The vast majority of N. Africans are heavily mixed with negroid elements and, less so, Arab. They are nowhere near genetically and phenotypically to the original inhabitants of North Africa.

Even some blonde berber (less than 2000 people into the total 70 million maghrebi population) have the typical maghrebi facial features.

This khabilian guy, despite the hairs, look like Gheddafi

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Berberboypd1.jpg

[2Cool]

Some can actually look kinda European but it's rare. I know a guy, he's Algerian and he's a red head. I also know a Tunisian girl who looks pretty European, she light skinned and everything and has an awesome ass. You have to remember that after the Reconquista most of the Islamized Iberians got kicked out and left to North-Africa and other Muslim areas. True Berbers also look pseudo-European.

But you guys are in Europe, I suspect you get a lot of poorer and lower classed Arabs than we do (in Canada).

[Prince Carlo]

Very very very few N.Africans would be considered as white in N.Europe.


North Africans I saw in Italy are at least 25%Negroid.

Which region of Italy have you visited?

[exceeder]

Some can actually look kinda European but it's rare. I know a guy, he's Algerian and he's a red head. I also know a Tunisian girl who looks pretty European, she light skinned and everything and has an awesome ass. You have to remember that after the Reconquista most of the Islamized Iberians got kicked out and left to North-Africa and other Muslim areas. True Berbers also look pseudo-European.

But you guys are in Europe, I suspect you get a lot of poorer and lower classed Arabs than we do (in Canada).

Many arabs that come to Canada, especially historically, have been christian (statistically a lot more lebanese christians have come here then muslim lebs, and a lot earlier then muslims). Just my 2 cents :thumbs up

[StonyArabia]

The Iberians are the ones who think the Berbers looked like themselves, but we know the reason why;). North African Caucasoid due to look European it's a myth not even the Kabyles or Riffians do they have a very North African look, well more south you go the more the SSA elements become like in the Sharawis, Touregs and related tolks.

[Contra Mundum]

The Iberians are the ones who think the Berbers looked like themselves, but we know the reason why;)

Many Berbers are white. They didn't mix with SSA blacks as much as the Arabs did.

[StonyArabia]

Many Berbers are white. They didn't mix with SSA blacks as much as the Arabs did.

What Arabs are you talking about? Arabians were never White but SouthWest Asians and they were dark because of adaptation to the Desert. In fact the more SouthWest Asian admix you have the darker you are. No they are not they look White because of various European elements, the true Berbers in the Atlas mountains don't even look Caucasoid but almost Mongoloid like.

[2Cool]

Many arabs that come to Canada, especially historically, have been christian (statistically a lot more lebanese christians have come here then muslim lebs, and a lot earlier then muslims). Just my 2 cents :thumbs up

I'm talking about people from the Maghreb. But yeah we have a of Christian Lebanese here too. They pretty much behave like any person of Southern-European descent that I know. But it seems that most of the recent immigrants from the Levant are Muslim. In fact most people who wear the hijab seem to be from there.

[Prince Carlo]

I'm talking about people from the Maghreb. But yeah we have a of Christian Lebanese here too. They pretty much behave like any person of Southern-European descent that I know. But it seems that most of the recent immigrants from the Levant are Muslim. In fact most people who wear the hijab seem to be from there.

Could you post some photos of Christian Lebanese? Thanks.

[Dilberth]

Very very very few N.Africans would be considered as white in N.Europe.



Which region of Italy have you visited?

Northern Italy.

[zlakopistou]

Funny article isn't it?

That's all you have to say about it? Sure, you know nothing about anthropology, just like most people in this forum. :thumb001:

[Prince Carlo]

That's all you have to say about it? Sure, you know nothing about anthropology, just like most people in this forum. :thumb001:

*yawn*

I do prefer molecular anthropology over outdated physical anthropology.

[2Cool]

Could you post some photos of Christian Lebanese? Thanks.

http://i.imgur.com/BA9sp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/v3YWa.jpg

[StonyArabia]

Could you post some photos of Christian Lebanese? Thanks.

Lebanese Christians range in looks. The Greek Orthodox among them are basically of Bedouin stock and look very Arabian, there is nothing European about them. They are short, dark and often have a petite bone structure. They practice the Greek Orthodox faith, others have changed their Christian faith and call themselves Arab Orthodox and use Arabic.

http://s14.postimage.org/4c9n5dxk1/Lebanese_Orthodox.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
free image hosting (http://postimage.org/)

[SKYNET]

Most of them look Caucasian.

seriously? That's nonsense lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northcaucasian_race

before to typing the letters from your keyboard, you need to know who are Caucasians ;)

[2Cool]

Lebanese Christians range in looks. The Greek Orthodox among them are basically of Bedouin stock and look very Arabian, there is nothing European about them. They are short, dark and often have a petite bone structure. They practice the Greek Orthodox faith, others have changed their Christian faith and call themselves Arab Orthodox and use Arabic.

http://s14.postimage.org/4c9n5dxk1/Lebanese_Orthodox.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
free image hosting (http://postimage.org/)

The Christian Lebanese here look nothing like that. Most Lebanese people I know, Christian or Muslim have light skin.

[zlakopistou]

*yawn*

I do prefer molecular anthropology over outdated physical anthropology.

Yeah outdated... 2005 is outdated (http://www.pnas.org/content/103/1/242.full)! :crazy:


As for 'molecular anthropology', if you're refering to genetics, then you certainly know very little in this field.

[Contra Mundum]

What Arabs are you talking about? Arabians were never White but SouthWest Asians and they were dark because of adaptation to the Desert. In fact the more SouthWest Asian admix you have the darker you are. No they are not they look White because of various European elements, the true Berbers in the Atlas mountains don't even look Caucasoid but almost Mongoloid like.

The Arabs who invaded North Africa to spread Islam. In America we tend to call everyone who speaks Arabic "Arab". What I meant to say are the Berbers who have not been Arabicised, and who still speak their ancient language.

I had assumed they looked more Caucasian. Perhaps I was wrong if what you say is true.

[StonyArabia]

The Christian Lebanese here look nothing like that. Most Lebanese people I know, Christian or Muslim have light skin.

Well the Lebanese Arab Orthodox are one of the most Arabian communities in Lebanon. They can be easily distinguished from the Maronites who tend to be lighter and taller. These people often belong to Arabian tribes that settled the region, and genetically they seem to be Arabian, much like the Yemenite Jews who are also Arabian converts. The Lebanese as whole have a good portion of Anatolian/West Asian genetic influence and add to that Crusader and French influence in the Christian Maronite population. The Arab Orthodox tend to be endogamous most often, and have always prefered to identify with the Arab Muslims which has caused some frictions between them and the Maornites who aspire for a Pan-Christian Near Eastern order. The same is also true of many Jordanian Arab Orthodox who belong to the Hejazeen and Akasheh tribes have almost always put their Arabian identity first and for most against Pan-Christian order. My point is that Arab Christians don't really differ much and it depends on their particular community as they range in looks.

[Peyrol]

Lebanese have nothing to do whith moroccans, we're heavy OT.

[Peyrol]

North Africa used to be white. The great barrier between Negroes and Caucasians was the Sahara desert. Because of the Nile, blacks started creeping into ancient Egypt. They later spread to the rest of North Africa because of the Arab slave trade, and more recent immigration due to modern transportation making it easier to transverse the desert. Modern North Africans are very different from their ancient ancestors. They are a mixed race today.

Exactly :thumb001:

[StonyArabia]

Exactly :thumb001:

Not quite, the more North you go the more people look North African with their own unique localized look the more South go the more SSA people become basically. Some dude mentioned Lebs but they are all sandniggers at the end of the day:p

[Supreme American]

I've seen some very light-skinned Moroccans, but I also realize they're probably the descendants of kidnapped Europeans from centuries ago. I don't regard them as white, racially or culturally. They're aliens and belong in Africa.

[StonyArabia]

I've seen some very light-skinned Moroccans, but I also realize they're probably the descendants of kidnapped Europeans from centuries ago. I don't regard them as white, racially or culturally. They're aliens and belong in Africa.

Yes the Berbers often raided as far as Ireland, Iceland, and even the Eastern coast of U.S for slaves, and apparently the Neitherlands as well. There were the Vandals, and then some other Europeans like Iberians, Italians, French, especially the latter created a good amount of Metis from the local Berber women.

[Anthropologique]

*yawn*

I do prefer molecular anthropology over outdated physical anthropology.

In fact, so outdated that it (old physical anthropology) is today called biological anthropology (bioanthropology) and focuses on paleoanthropology, forensics and population genetics. The days of physical anthro frauds like Coon are (hopefully) long gone.:cool:

[Kanuni]

This is how the true Berbers look like

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3988&stc=1&d=1267708001
http://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/berbers.jpg
http://www.caingram.com/Morocco/Pix/Berber_man.jpg
http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/34936983/Amr+Diab+10.jpg
http://dc.img.v4.skyrock.net/dc4/kabylie-2007/pics/682935980_small.jpg
http://football-picture.org/data/media/14/Karim_Benzema_6228.jpg

[Supreme American]

This is how the true Berbers look like

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3988&stc=1&d=1267708001

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/34936983/Amr+Diab+10.jpg

Clear descendants of kidnapped Europeans. We have very distinctive facial structures.

[Alvarado]

Clear descendants of kidnapped Europeans. We have very distinctive facial structures.

Not at all, the first guy looks clearly North African.

[Ibericus]

They all look moorish to me. We have these types of morocco immigrant in Europe.

[Lábaru]

extremely rare.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3988&stc=1&d=1267708001

Very rare, Eastern looks.
http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/34936983/Amr+Diab+10.jpg

a minority, relatively rare and common at the same time.
http://www.caingram.com/Morocco/Pix/Berber_man.jpg

very common.
http://dc.img.v4.skyrock.net/dc4/kabylie-2007/pics/682935980_small.jpg

[Midori]

A funny myth indeed, but what's even funnier is the myth about Iranians being white, and most of them look like typical sandnigger wogs.

[Lábaru]

@Labaru What about Benzema?I think he looks very Berber.

His face is not very common, but is not rare, can found in North Africa.
http://football-picture.org/data/media/14/Karim_Benzema_6228.jpg

the more common look by far.

http://dc.img.v4.skyrock.net/dc4/kabylie-2007/pics/682935980_small.jpg
http://img01.lavanguardia.com/2012/03/22/Mohamed-Merah-divirtiendose-co_54276012102_53699622600_601_341.jpg
http://www.teinteresa.es/mundo/Mohamed-Merah-asesino-Toulouse_TINIMA20120322_0218_18.jpg
http://www.orihueladigital.es/orihuela/deportes/carrera-policia-nacional-eroski-121107-2-ok.JPG
http://estaticos01.cache.el-mundo.net/elmundodeporte/imagenes/2010/12/12/masdeporte/1292157363_0.jpg

[Anthropologique]

If levanites and mesopotamians have "close relations" with caucasians,its pretty fair to assume that north africans have the same relations with south europeans.

The genetics clearly do not support the latter assumption.

[Il Principe]

A funny myth indeed, but what's even funnier is the myth about Iranians being white, and most of them look like typical sandnigger wogs.
They are the genetic sinkhole of Central Asia, the accumulation of racial detritus over the ages. What else can be expected of them?

I've never seen any of these elusive "Aryan Iranians" in all my life. They are unicorns of sorts. However, I do know a French-Lebanese girl who is of far "whiter" phenotype than any Iranian immigrant I've ever laid eyes upon. A haplogroup study would reveal that the East Med (including Turkey) has far more Europid genetic material than all of Iran put together.

[gold_fenix]

The Iberians are the ones who think the Berbers looked like themselves, but we know the reason why;). North African Caucasoid due to look European it's a myth not even the Kabyles or Riffians do they have a very North African look, well more south you go the more the SSA elements become like in the Sharawis, Touregs and related tolks.

I thought it but for example Labaru never did it, anyway unmixed berbers are caucasoid without europoid features, i was confused by the photo of those berbers who post photo of kabylyan and riffian with european features, but in group photos you can see they don't look not even as south european but of course either they look as the average moroccian or argelian

[Artavazt]

The genetics clearly do not support the latter assumption.


There are many tests that support the later assumption,and also former one. And there are many who dont support any of these assumptions.

[Kanuni]

There are many tests that support the later assumption,and also former one. And there are many who dont support any of these assumptions.

List those tests then.We are eager to know.

There is a big genetic barrier between South Europeans and North Africans.

[Anthropologique]

They are the genetic sinkhole of Central Asia, the accumulation of racial detritus over the ages. What else can be expected of them?

I've never seen any of these elusive "Aryan Iranians" in all my life. However, I do know a French-Lebanese girl who is of far higher racial quality than any Iranian immigrant I've laid eyes upon. A genetic study would reveal that the East Med (including Turkey) has far more "white blood" than all of Iran put together.

A major miasma...I can just imagine the levels of malodor emanating from Teheran. BAAAARRRRRFFF!!

[Artavazt]

List those tests then.We are eager to know.

There is a big genetic barrier between South Europeans and North Africans.



Sent on PM,as i have nothing agains south euros and dont think they are closely related to north africans,just saying that according to nordicists its the same,so i find it pretty strange when some south europeans talk about us in the same way some nordicists talk about them (they are not too many btw,but there shouldnt be any i think).

And btw the man in your avatar has yezidi maternal ancestry.

[Ibericus]

North Africans are basically Sardinians with Negroid and minor SW Asian admixes.
Well, Sardinians have around 0% SW Asian, whereas North-Africans have in the order of 30%.


There are many tests that support the later assumption,and also former one. And there are many who dont support any of these assumptions.
Please. Caucasus and northern Midde-east are pretty close on genetic maps, whereas there is a big gap between north-african and southern Europe.

[Anthropologique]

There are many tests that support the later assumption,and also former one. And there are many who dont support any of these assumptions.

North Africans do not cluster anywhere near Southern Euros, even East-Meds.

[KidMulat]

North Africa used to be white. The great barrier between Negroes and Caucasians was the Sahara desert. Because of the Nile, blacks started creeping into ancient Egypt. They later spread to the rest of North Africa because of the Arab slave trade, and more recent immigration due to modern transportation making it easier to transverse the desert. Modern North Africans are very different from their ancient ancestors. They are a mixed race today.

Someone has no idea what their talking about guess who :lightbul:

Three words for you dear: Saharan Pump Theory

Followed by; Oasis Agriculture; Camels; pre-existing SSA admixture

:embarrassed

[Anthropologique]

Well, Sardinians have around 0% SW Asian, whereas North-Africans have in the order of 30%.


Please. Caucasus and Levantine/Midde-east are pretty close on genetic maps, whereas there is a big gap between north-african and southern Europe.

Plus N. Africans have near 20% SSA.

[Anthropologique]

Sent on PM,as i have nothing agains south euros and dont think they are closely related to north africans,just saying that according to nordicists its the same,so i find it pretty strange when some south europeans talk about us in the same way some nordicists talk about them (they are not too many btw,but there shouldnt be any i think).

And btw the man in your avatar has yezidi maternal ancestry.

Most Nordicists are delusional so they have no credibility.

[Artavazt]

Please. Caucasus and northern Midde-east are pretty close on genetic maps, whereas there is a big gap between north-african and southern Europe.

As i said there are many maps that tells the same thing about northern africans and southern euros,and they are used by nordicists sometimes.
And i have posted many maps showing otherwise (in case of caucasians),and the map that is used on this forum shows for example certain caucasian people very close to some mongoloid people and other groups pretty close to middle east,though in reality all these groups look very close to each other,so their not realistic.

[GeistFaust]

There is a wide variation of differences among North Africans, because in part of the isolated nature of some of the peoples who lived there, which has created some unique mixes and phenotypes. A lot of North Africans are of Berber/Arab/Arabo-Berber background, and there is of course some SSA admixture involved from the slave trade period, and some migrations into Northern Africa.


There is actually Sub-Saharan people who still migrate up into North Africa, and their is actually a lot of racism against them, even local people who are heavily SSA influenced. We all know its all a myth that North African "whiteness" is a myth, and a lot of the reasons for it being supported is due to some isolated cases of "whiteness" among Berbers.


That said look does not correlate to actual genetic orientation, and these "white" looking Berbers probably have plenty of non-European genes, even from SSA. Houston Stewart Chamberlain once claimed the Berbers were of the "Ayran" race, and that they were a breed of high bred Asiatics, who intermarried in part with Goths. :p

[Supreme American]

Not at all, the first guy looks clearly North African.

They're mutts, that's the point. I see European facial structure in there. I agree he is clearly North African, I'm not saying he isn't; I'm saying I see European in his face.

[Supreme American]

Three words for you dear: Saharan Pump Theory

Don't call him "dear," he's not gay.

[Peyrol]

I've seen some very light-skinned Moroccans, but I also realize they're probably the descendants of kidnapped Europeans from centuries ago. I don't regard them as white, racially or culturally. They're aliens and belong in Africa.

There was a slave trade of abducted europeans in Almohad Morocco...saracens pirates polluted and ravaged many coastal town in Provence and Southern-Central Italy.

[Peyrol]

Clear descendants of kidnapped Europeans. We have very distinctive facial structures.

No, these people of 100% pure berber blood (wich unfortunalety are less than 8% of maghrebi population) are the true north africans...the heirs of the ancient n.a. white states like Numidia, Mauritania, Cartagine.

But, if you look better, you'll see a clear minor arabid influence also in these pure blooded berbers.

Anyway, less than 2% of northafricans in Spain, Italy and France look like these people.

[Peyrol]

There are many tests that support the later assumption,and also former one. And there are many who dont support any of these assumptions.

Again? -facepalm-


Ancient northafrican famers =/= modern maghrebi population (negroid-arabic-berberic mixage).

[Ibericus]

As i said there are many maps that tells the same thing about northern africans and southern euros,and they are used by nordicists sometimes.
Which maps are these please ? :confused: I've seen plenty, and none showns north-africans being close to south-euros.

[Artavazt]

Which maps are these please ? :confused: I've seen plenty, and none showns north-africans being close to south-euros.


http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9767/hlafreq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/190/hlafreq3.jpg/)

:confused::confused:

[Peyrol]

Which maps are these please ? :confused: I've seen plenty, and none showns north-africans being close to south-euros.

Obviously people talks about "white north-africans" without having 800,000 maghrebi immigrants as in our countries :lol:

[Artavazt]

Again? -facepalm-


Ancient northafrican famers =/= modern maghrebi population (negroid-arabic-berberic mixage).

Why your explaining to me ?


Im just saying what some people say.

[Ibericus]

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9767/hlafreq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/190/hlafreq3.jpg/)

:confused::confused:
But that's an mtDNA PCA, not an autosomal map (genome-wide), It's normal that moroccans here apeear close to Euros, since more than 50% of their mtDNA is shared with Europeans.

[Peyrol]

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9767/hlafreq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/190/hlafreq3.jpg/)

:confused::confused:

"italian" as whole ethnicity :lol:

Explain me this (presumed) massive ancient maghrebi settlement in Piemont, Lombardy or Veneto (but also in Campania or Umbria), please.

[Übermensch]

They aren't ''white'' but they are obviously caucasoid.

[Peyrol]

They aren't ''white'' but they are obviously caucasoid.

Come here in Torino and after one night you will change idea :lol:

Totally aliens in any european country, both racially and culturally.

[Supreme American]

If levanites and mesopotamians have "close relations" with caucasians,its pretty fair to assume that north africans have the same relations with south europeans.

Except that Europeans didn't kidnap over 1 million N. Africans and bring them back home as booty (no pun intended).

[Peyrol]

See these groups of illegals maghrebi which landed in Lampedusa and tell me how european they are :lol:

https://www.google.it/search?q=immigrati%20lampedusa&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:it:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=it&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=V0vHT42jCoG2-wavssnODg&biw=1600&bih=796&sei=XUvHT6_RK4bjtQbb8sD_Dg

I quote myself of this morning :lol:

[Padre Organtino]

lol

Well, that's true. The "white" North Africans are basically ancient proto-meds(or more correctly people with such phenotypes). Autosomally they differe from Sardinians due to East and West African admixes. The East African admix together with proto-Med one forms the famous SW Asian cluster at high Ks in autosomal runs.

Of course apart from some Riffans and Kabyls North Africans are really distant from Sardinians as they have too much African admixture.

[Übermensch]

Totally aliens in any european country, both racially and culturally.

I agree they aren't european or white racially speaking but they are caucasoid, far distant from sub-saharian african negrids...

[Peyrol]

Well, that's true. The "white" North Africans are basically ancient proto-meds(or more correctly people with such phenotypes). Austoomally they differe from Sardinians due to East andWets African admixes. The East African admix together with proto-Med one forms the famous SW Asian cluster at high Ks in autosomal runs.

Of course apart from some Riffans and Kabyls North Africans are really distant from Sardinians as they have too much African admixture.

Sardinians lived in their island since 3,000 A.D. and, with Finland, the island is one of the last "genetic island" in Europe.

[Peyrol]

Classified as "Non-Hispanic-White" in the U.S. census :lol::lol::lol:






http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090921155703/nonciclopedia/images/6/65/Marocchino.jpg

http://www.melitoonline.it/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/MBENJAMIN_Benjamin-220x300.jpg

http://www2.melitoonline.it/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/zimane-219x300.jpg

http://www2.melitoonline.it/show_image_NpAdvSinglePhoto.php?filename=/2008/03/abdulnour-youssef-22-10-1984.jpeg&cat=17&pid=4466&cache=false

http://www.melotti.net/fotografie/persone-ritratti/beduino-arabo.jpg

http://www.ritalevimontalcini.org/fileup/Immagini/PROG.%2078.JPG

[Padre Organtino]

Sardinians lived in their island since 3,000 A.D. and, with Finland, the island is one of the last genetic island in Europe.

You meant 3000 B.C.:p
Yeah, I agree. Sardinians are very ancient and homogenous people. They are a part of the wave that went from ME in very ancient times and colonized South Europe (see Otzi the iceman who's basically Sardinian genetically). In Iberian peninsula they got admixed with more Northern people while in Africa with Sub-Saharans. That's why Sardinians cluster with Europeans (being one of the founding populations of Europe) and North Africans are not European.

[Peyrol]

You meant 3000 B.C.:p
Yeah, I agree. Sardinians are very ancient and homogenous people. They are a part of the wave that went from ME in very ancient times and colonized South Europe (see Otzi the iceman who's basically Sardinian genetically). In Iberian peninsula they got admixed with more Northern people while in Africa with Sub-Saharans. That's why Sardinians cluster with Europeans (being one of the founding populations of Europe) and North Africans are not European.

Oh God, that's for sure.

Damn'd albionic language...

[Artavazt]

"italian" as whole ethnicity :lol:


Whats the funny thing about it ?
Allmost every nations is considered as whole ethnicityo n this board,its as funny as considering armenians for example as whole ethnicity.

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/7638/mdsarmenians.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/39/mdsarmenians.png/)




Explain me this (presumed) massive ancient maghrebi settlement in Piemont, Lombardy or Veneto (but also in Campania or Umbria), please.


Well most of these maps full strange and un explained contradictions.for example
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uKPuN3V1UOQ/ToFjulvp4HI/AAAAAAAAEKs/52BygIDAK0g/s1600/uzbeks.png

According to this map
Chechens and lezgins are closer to nogays (mongoloid people) than they are to georgians or to armenians,which doesnt make sense at all.Yet its still used by your friends (and probably you) to say that armenians are close to levanites. Eitherway if there is any genetic similarity its mostly for one way genetic flow from caucasus to middle east,as some one said in this very thread that he has seen european/caucasian looking lebanese girl... i wish i could say the same for..........

[Padre Organtino]

Well most of these maps full strange and un explained contradictions.for example
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uKPuN3V1UOQ/ToFjulvp4HI/AAAAAAAAEKs/52BygIDAK0g/s1600/uzbeks.png

Chechens and lezgins are closer to nogays (mongoloid people) than they are to georgians or to armenians,which doesnt make sense at all.Yet its still used by your friends (and probably you) to say that armenians are close levanites. Eitherway if there is any genetic similarity its mostly for one way genetic flow from caucasus to middle east,as some one said in this very thread that he has seen european looking lebanese girl... i wish i could say the same for..........

Chechens and the like have both high North Euro admix and some East Asian compared to Georgians and especially Armenians. Nogais are on the other hand a mix of Turkic/Mongol nomads and North Caucasians so the similarity is not surprising. It's liek asking why Turks cluster with Armenians and not with Uzbeks:rolleyes:

[Peyrol]

Maghrebi are like a cancer: they demand, they pretend, they want...but they don't give anything to this nations, and they live segregated in their muslim ghettos and they send their children to coranic schools where the imam say that Italy is a cancer.

Fuck maghrebi, return to your sandland of desert and scorpions if you don't like this nation.

[Foxy]

North-Africa has been conquered and colonized by various European powers throughout history.
There still are remnants of Europid stock left from these hegemonies which may account for the lighter appearances of some locals.

I am just reading a very detailed story of Venice that speaks also of Genoa and long chapters are dedicated to the period of Italian commercial colonies in MENA countries. What history tells us is that the most "colonized" areas throughout history was the Levant, in particular Syria and Israel, in the areas where in the past were Acri and Damasco, and ofc Turkey, in particular Instambul, where Genoeses had an own christian borough called "Pera". Northern Africa was always left a bit a part, excluding maybe Alexandria, mostly because in Eastern Mediterraneum there is a stream that made difficult for ships to navigate from Egypt westward, so all the ships from Alexandria went first to the Levant, then to Cyprus, then in Greece and then back to the Adriatic area. ;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Repubblica_di_Venezia.png/650px-Repubblica_di_Venezia.png

[StonyArabia]

Chechens and the like have both high North Euro admix and some East Asian compared to Georgians and especially Armenians. Nogais are on the other hand a mix of Turkic/Mongol nomads and North Caucasians so the similarity is not surprising. It's liek asking why Turks cluster with Armenians and not with Uzbeks:rolleyes:

I am in between North Caucasians and Yemenite Jews apparently, the result creates an Assyrian like genotype but phenotypically iam closer to the latter:p. Armenians also appear on my similarity because they have good amount of SouthWest Asian admix.:cool:

[Anthropologique]

Classified as "Non-Hispanic-White" in the U.S. census :lol::lol::lol:


:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[Artavazt]

Chechens and the like have both high North Euro admix and some East Asian compared to Georgians and especially Armenians. Nogais are on the other hand a mix of Turkic/Mongol nomads and North Caucasians so the similarity is not surprising.


They as a whole group look much closer to gerogians and armenians than to nogays.



It's liek asking why Turks cluster with Armenians and not with Uzbeks:rolleyes:

It's more like seeing a genetic map where turks cluster with uzbeks not with the rest of anatolian/caucasian nations.

[Padre Organtino]

They as a whole group look much closer to gerogians and armenians than to nogays.

It's more like seeing a genetic map where turks cluster with uzbeks not with the rest of anatolian/caucasian nations.

That's cause Nogais are not really Mongoloid. They're just more East Asian version of North Caucasians.

[Ibericus]

Whats the funny thing about it ?
Allmost every nations is considered as whole ethnicityo n this board,its as funny as considering armenians for example as whole ethnicity.

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/7638/mdsarmenians.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/39/mdsarmenians.png/)

This looks like some haplotype MDS map, not genome-wide autosomal. Dude, do you know the differences ? What counts for genome-wide genetics is MDS/PCA plots with hundreds of thousands of SNP's.

[StonyArabia]

That's cause Nogais are not really Mongoloid. They're just more East Asian version of North Caucasians.

They are basically Turkic dudes who took local North Caucasian wives. It's the same with Kalmyks to lesser extent. They loved Circassian females one of their prince/khans had a Cricassian wife.

[Kanuni]

You meant 3000 B.C.:p
Yeah, I agree. Sardinians are very ancient and homogenous people. They are a part of the wave that went from ME in very ancient times and colonized South Europe (see Otzi the iceman who's basically Sardinian genetically). In Iberian peninsula they got admixed with more Northern people while in Africa with Sub-Saharans. That's why Sardinians cluster with Europeans (being one of the founding populations of Europe) and North Africans are not European.

So the G2a carrying Neolithics brought the Med admix.

[Catrau]

Classified as "Non-Hispanic-White" in the U.S. census :lol::lol::lol:



:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

:jump0000::1127:

[SilverKnight]

This has being discussed before.

"White" is a social term for a person of light or pale skin from European or European ancestry. North Africans are Caucasoid not "white" same with Arabs.

[Sikeliot]

This has being discussed before.

"White" is a social term for a person of light or pale skin from European or European ancestry. North Africans are Caucasoid not "white" same with Arabs.

I disagree with this. Under this standard, Mariah Carey and Jennifer Beals are "whiter" than say, Kathy Najimy or Haifa Wehbe.

[SilverKnight]

I disagree with this. Under this standard, Mariah Carey and Jennifer Beals are "whiter" than say, Kathy Najimy or Haifa Wehbe.

:sad:

[Peyrol]

Maghrebi/mauritani illegals landed in Lampedusa (Sicilia)

http://www.livenews24.it/articolsImages/6/3/8/a/6/375_0.jpg

http://www.latinosmagazine.it/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Clandestini-a-Lampedusa.jpg

http://images2.corriereobjects.it/gallery/Cronache/2011/03_Marzo/sbarchi/1/img_1/sbar_01_672-458_resize.jpg

http://www.blitzquotidiano.it/wp/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/small_110307-101214_mi070311cro_0003.jpg

http://www.livenews24.it/articolsImages/6/3/2/e/f/638_0.jpg

[Prince Carlo]

Few more typical N.Africans.

http://www.radiortm.it/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/WASIM-Ben-Sam-Bizerta-05.05.75-bis.jpghttp://www.ventimiglia.biz/images/stories/a/Arresti/2011/karmia_abdelkarim_arrestato_il_16_5_11.jpghttp://www.radiortm.it/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/ALIM__LOTFI_Tunisia_4-7-83.jpghttp://www.agrigentoflash.it/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/maaoui_bilel_.jpeghttp://www.italiah24.it/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/BEN-ALI-JALEL.jpghttp://www.radiortm.it/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/YACOUBI-Montacer-Tunisia.jpghttp://www.messinaweb.tv/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/BOUGHAMNI-Salah.jpghttp://www.ponenteoggi.it/fileadmin/ponenteoggi/content/immagini/Foto_Marco_Risi/tunisino_1993_270212.JPGhttp://www.riviera24.it/userdata/immagini/foto/510/2011/07/dennechi20mathrem200509_446964.jpghttp://www.radiortm.it/wp-content/gallery/vittoria/lazreg-hassen-nato-a-enfida-tns-06-02-67.jpghttp://www.riviera24.it/userdata/immagini/foto/510/2010/09/arrestato-kaies-bohli_336445.jpghttp://www.tg10.it/files/photogr/TON_ABDELFATTAH.jpeghttp://www.alqamah.it/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Karkouri-Atef2.jpghttp://www.radiortm.it/public/rtm/Image/Vittoria/SALAH.jpeghttp://www.abruzzo24ore.tv/show.php?token=3bcda8f2aed2c8f1fdea1c020dadcf39&id=78252&width=300&scale

[Prince Carlo]

http://www.sciclinews.com/immagini_articoli/maamri_salem.jpghttp://www.agrigentoflash.it/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/SALHI.jpghttp://www.telenovaragusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/BEN-KHISSIBA-Kais-03_07_1983-tns-295x300.jpghttp://www.grandangoloagrigento.it/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Karim-Marzouki.jpghttp://mattinopadova.gelocal.it/polopoly_fs/1.1670831.1321272885!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_250/image.jpghttp://www.newz.it/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/LAMNAOUAR-Hicham.jpghttp://www.castelloincantato.it/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/salhi-aymen-cl.1981.jpeghttp://www.radiortm.it/wp-content/gallery/varie/bassam-tarik2.jpg

[Anthropologique]

Ugly as sin. Grade A Untermenschen.

Look at all those fine Euro features. :lol00002:

[Anthropologique]

I disagree with this. Under this standard, Mariah Carey and Jennifer Beals are "whiter" than say, Kathy Najimy or Haifa Wehbe.

"White" should refer only to indigenous Europeans with a high majority combination of West Euro, South Euro and North Euro autosomal scores. A percentage of West-Asian is certainly acceptable in the mix, since it represents an ancient component of the European genome.

[Prince Carlo]

North Africans interestingly are still genetically Berber. The Berber specific Y-lineage is more than 85% in North African males. No matter what fantasies some people might think. Their maternal lineage shows some influences here and there.

Only Moroccans. Tunisians' Y-lineage is about 40% J1+J2+G+T.

[zlakopistou]

Tsukonin at ABF got really butthurt over Joseph's sample:D

I know this guy from a french forum and also 23andme. He happens to be nice and mature, unlike people here. Therefore, I doubt he was butthurt by any mean but by our Italian guy's behaviour. I don't know Berberwarrior however.



On a side note, I agree with him though, on Joseph belonging to this forum, Aprishitty :D rather than ABF. Does it mean I am shit too?

[Prince Carlo]

I know this guy from a french forum and also 23andme. He happens to be nice and mature, unlike people here. Therefore, I doubt he was butthurt by any mean but by our Italian guy's behaviour. I don't know Berberwarrior however.



On a side note, I agree with him though, on Joseph belonging to this forum, Aprishitty :D rather than ABF. Does it mean I am shit too?

Tsukonin belongs to the army of nordicist North Africans in denial of their nig ancestry. I posted a couple of photos and the kid got butthurt and insulted me and my country. I don't think he is really that mature as you say. :tongue


Turks sure, Lebanese... well, not sure.

Trust me: even the darkest Levantine is an aryan God compared to your average N.African.

[zlakopistou]

Tsukonin belongs to the army of nordicist North Africans in denial of their nig ancestry. I posted a couple of photos and the kid got butthurt and insulted me and my country. I don't think he is really that mature as you say. :tongue



Where is the insult to your country? :confused:

He is reacting to you constantly posting the same mugshots, which implies they are all criminals. Face it, you like insulting people for no reason, just like any apricitian do. That's why I consider you immature.

That guy is mature because he would never say to me "hey Moldavian, you have the toilets to clean" when I don't agree with him.


Tsukonin belongs to the army of nordicist North Africans in denial of their nig ancestry.

You really need to stop weed.

[Peyrol]

Where is the insult to your country? :confused:

He is reacting to you constantly posting the same mugshots, which implies they are all criminals. Face it, you like insulting people for no reason, just like any apricitian do. That's why I consider you immature.

That guy is mature because he would never say to me "hey Moldavian, you have the toilets to clean" when I don't agree with him.



You really need to stop weed.


Posting pictures of random Marrakesh Squares and boat of illegals maghrebi now is "cherrypicking"?

Wow, i have to re-think about this definition.


An i ask you again: have you 75,000 maghrebi in your city? Do you interact with these people daily? Because i have.

[zlakopistou]

Posting pictures of random Marrakesh Squares and boat of illegals maghrebi now is "cherrypicking"?


It is cherrypicking to post mugshots. That's why the guy was mad at Joseph. If Joseph wants to be fair he shouldn't post these pictures again and again. If somebody posts Moldavian whores, I would be upset too. :thumb001:



An i ask you again: have you 75,000 maghrebi in your city? Do you interact with these people daily?


Yes, even more than 100000 probably. And my current girlfriend is of Algerian descent.

[Peyrol]

It is cherrypicking to post mugshots. That's why the guy was mad at Joseph. If Joseph wants to be fair he shouldn't post these pictures again and again. If somebody posts Moldavian whores, I would be upset too. :thumb001:



Yes, even more than 100000 probably. And my current girlfriend is of Algerian descent.

90% of maghrebi in my city looks like those "mughsots".

[zlakopistou]

90% of maghrebi in my city looks like those "mughsots".

Are you dumb? I don't give a shit of their appearance, I am not homo. ;) I explained that the insult was to post criminals.

[Lábaru]

Both of you are right, about 60% of Maghrebis are quite dark, but there are another 40% that are lighter, in any case I do not think they are darker than the Levantines, on average are quite close.

[Supreme American]

I visited Morocco, there are a number of Moroccans that are very white.

I've seen some Moroccans like this here in the US. IMO they're descendants of kidnapped Europeans, but they aren't white, they aren't our people.

[Lábaru]

I've seen some Moroccans like this here in the US. IMO they're descendants of kidnapped Europeans, but they aren't white, they aren't our people.

Of course not, but my point is that they are not very different from the Levantines.

To me eyes the Europeans are not white, we each nation have our ethnicity or race, and never is white, we are light brown, pink, red, yellow and various shades, but never white.

[Peyrol]

I've seen some Moroccans like this here in the US. IMO they're descendants of kidnapped Europeans, but they aren't white, they aren't our people.

You're lucky, then.

Here they're all triracial (arab-berber-negro) mixed low class maghrebi.

[Prince Carlo]

Where is the insult to your country? :confused:

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showpost.php?p=894733&postcount=226


He is reacting to you constantly posting the same mugshots, which implies they are all criminals. Face it, you like insulting people for no reason, just like any apricitian do. That's why I consider you immature.

I posted that photos for a simple reason: they were the only one non-cherrypicked avaible to me.


That guy is mature because he would never say to me "hey Moldavian, you have the toilets to clean" when I don't agree with him.

Read back the thread. He is the one who started insulting me and my country.

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showpost.php?p=894198&postcount=224


You really need to stop weed.

If you say so.

[Lábaru]

Argelian university.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Q9zEbvgnNWQ/S0Zfn44v4PI/AAAAAAAAA1E/NfP_qq0e2RE/s400/FOTO+1.JPG

Moroccans.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FyTj7euhYJQ/SPIlopCoM3I/AAAAAAAAAWs/icdRTgEaxNU/s400/DSC00956.JPG
http://citvc.org/Assets/Photos/Videoconferences/09-10journals/morocco/morocco%20%282%29.JPG

[Prince Carlo]

Lebanese children, the difference is not so great.
http://nurainmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/ninos_libaneses.jpg

Moroccan children.
http://www.tucamon.es/photos/0000/5238/f__25__blog.JPG?1222555127

I've dealt with both N.Africans and Levantines IRL and the latter were definitively "whiter" on average, but you can have your opinion.

PS there are many non-moroccans in those photos.

[Lábaru]

I've dealt with both N.Africans and Levantines IRL and the latter were definitively "whiter" on average, but you can have your opinion.

immigrants are not a reliable source of information, on overall I think that Africans are slightly darker, but as a whole, the areas of North Africa with little or no black mixture, are as white as the Levant.

On the other side of the coin I think that Levantines are more Semites, araboids, even East Mediterranid, while the North Africans are totally different, more archaic or Cro-Magnon, a lot more, uniques, not East/West Mediterranean

[Lábaru]

Well these are levantines.

http://ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/postcard_beirut_0402.jpg


Another problem are the photos, if we take this picture as the general standard looks of the Levantines, then they are not very different compared to Southern Italy or Greece, the cleric in the center can fit well in Europe without problem.

But now look these Syrians in a recent social protest.
http://photos.end.com.ni/2011/10/639x360_1318002894_Manifestaci%C3%B3n%20Siria.jpg
http://www.vanguardia.com.mx/XStatic/vanguardia/images/espanol/Siria-rijozos.jpg
http://static.noticiasdegipuzkoa.com/images/2012/03/09/siria-manifestaciones_1.jpg

[Lábaru]

Syrians
http://imagenes.lapatilla.s3.amazonaws.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/20110325_634366619657370967.jpg
http://imagenes.lapatilla.s3.amazonaws.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/20110325_634366620321926967.jpg
http://www.revistaideele.com/ideele/sites/default/files/en%20Siria%20y%20autoridades%20reportan%20centenar es%20de%20muertos%20por%20el%20conflicto%20FOTO%20 GETTY.jpg

[Prince Carlo]

immigrants are not a reliable source of information, on overall I think that Africans are slightly darker, but as a whole, the areas of North Africa with little or no black mixture, are as white as the Levant.


They are mostly students in my University. (both the Levantines and the N.Africans).

[Hayalet]

Moroccan children.
http://www.tucamon.es/photos/0000/5238/f__25__blog.JPG?1222555127
Are you sure this is not some sort of an international (pan-Mediterranean?) event? The children seem quite heterogeneous.


Moroccans.
http://citvc.org/Assets/Photos/Videoconferences/09-10journals/morocco/morocco%20%282%29.JPG
Passaic Valley High School is in New Jersey according to Wikipedia. :p

[Peyrol]

Are you sure this is not some sort of an international (pan-Mediterranean?) event? The children seem quite heterogeneous.


Passaic Valley High School is in New Jersey according to Wikipedia. :p

Lol :lol:

[Anthropologique]

Are you sure this is not some sort of an international (pan-Mediterranean?) event? The children seem quite heterogeneous.


Passaic Valley High School is in New Jersey according to Wikipedia. :p

:thumb001::thumbs up

Oh yeah, they really look like North Africans. LOL!

[Anthropologique]

Tsukonin belongs to the army of nordicist North Africans in denial of their nig ancestry. I posted a couple of photos and the kid got butthurt and insulted me and my country. I don't think he is really that mature as you say. :tongue



Trust me: even the darkest Levantine is an aryan God compared to your average N.African.

Nordicist North Africans?:confused: Talk about extreme delusions.

Time to laugh our asses off.

[GeistFaust]

Nordicist North Africans?:confused: Talk about extreme delusions.

Time to laugh our asses off.


Yes, and the odd thing is that many racialists from the Gilded Era up to the boom in the 20s, who were Anglo-Saxon supremacists and Nordicists claimed such nonsense.

They claimed that certain Berber groups such as the Riffians and Kabyles were a mix of some of the noblest Vandal and Goth blood.

Houston Stewart Chamberlain was one of the nut cases who advocated for such a belief, and this is the same man who dismissed some of Darwin's most basic evolutionary dynamics. :p

[Libertas]

I've seen many North Africans in Italy, mostly central Moroccan or Casablancan apparently, and most looked slightly mulatto.

Algerians (Kabyles) in Paris are somewhat lighter.

[Prince Carlo]

I've seen many North Africans in Italy, mostly central Moroccan or Casablancan apparently, and most looked slightly mulatto.

Algerians (Kabyles) in Paris are somewhat lighter.

Yes I agree. Kabyles are surely the least nig admixed N.Africans.

[Peyrol]

Yes I agree. Kabyles are surely the least nig admixed N.Africans.

And they're 10,000 people in a 70,000,000 population.

[Optimus]

I think the examples of OP are not fair enough.They seem to be beated prisoners.But he has a point afterall,Berber whiteness is exaggerated.

[Libertas]

I suspect that the Moroccans in Italy are from the poorest class where Subsaharan former slave blood is strongest.

[Peyrol]

I suspect that the Moroccans in Italy are from the poorest class where Subsaharan former slave blood is strongest.

The fact is that many people think "moroccans = pure berbes"....false! 80% of moroccan population is something 33% berber, 33% arabid and 33% negro!

[Anthropologique]

The fact is that many people think "moroccans = pure berbes"....false! 80% of moroccan population is something 33% berber, 33% arabid and 33% negro!

Pure Berbers are rare and usually found mainly in the Riff, Atlas mountains and parts of Algeria. The original (Mesolithic / Neolithic) Berbers were much different than the mixed flotsam you normally find in North Africa today.

[gold_fenix]

Pure Berbers are rare and usually found mainly in the Riff, Atlas mountains and parts of Algeria. The original (Mesolithic / Neolithic) Berbers were much different than the mixed flotsam you normally find in North Africa today.

I don't doubt that Morccians have berbers blood, but has been totally alterated with strong influence of subsaharian and arabic blood and i am agree with Detfri that there are some moroccians with light skin but even in these cases don't look as south europeans, the same unmixed berbers don't look as the average moroccians but either as southeuropean, they certainly have the own look

[Il Principe]

North African "whiteness" is indeed a myth, and moreover, it never existed in the first place. European gene-flow has resulted in a few "white-looking" individuals here and there, although it's obviously a very subjective term. Most of North Africa saturated with black genes, resulting in ugly mulattoid racial types, though there are also undiluted Berbers of a classically handsome Berberid-Mediterranean type, such as Omar Sharif. The area is generally a mixed bag, with both "white" and "black" specimens.


It could be, but slaves should be more common among upper classes than among low classes.
MENA societies were never stratified along class in the same way as European ones. They simply don't have the hereditary European class system in the Islamic world. Obviously, one can speak of "low-class Moroccans" as a social group, but certainly not in the biological sense. There is no racial division between the Moroccan rich and poor, and the Negroid slave blood is about equally distributed in all classes. One should rather look at individuals and tribes for distinguishing racial features, not classes.

(Actually, the fact that Arabs lack the concept of "noble birth" is one of the reasons why they so readily interbred with African slaves and have this admixture. Islamic societies were always slave societies. Even the Sultans were often the sons of harem slaves, something which European rulers found deeply contemptible.)

[Paluga]

The average western european also doesn't look like this :

http://www.becomeamalemodel.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/f32b2_swedish_male_model_1116546475_6fdbd35a31.jpg

More like this :

http://www.weisbrod-blog.ch/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/steinbrueck_krawatte5.jpg

[StonyArabia]

The fact is that many people think "moroccans = pure berbes"....false! 80% of moroccan population is something 33% berber, 33% arabid and 33% negro!

They don't have much Arabian blood. Moroccans are Berbers with some SSA and in some cases European admix usually French or Iberian. Arabian influence is almost rare and nill in most of North Africa.

[Peyrol]

They don't have much Arabian blood. Moroccans are Berbers with some SSA and in some cases European admix usually French or Iberian. Arabian influence is almost rare and nill in most of North Africa.

They have some arabic blood: Almohads imported a lot of colonists from Neghev and northern Yemen to implant cultivation of lemons and oranges (at least, this is what a moroccan guy in my university said me).

[Sikeliot]

As far as I know, North Africans do have something of an Arabian component to their genes.. but Dienekes' "North African" component, which is really a made up one composed of a mixture of SW Asian, Med, and Sub-Saharan masks it .

[Peyrol]

As far as I know, North Africans do have something of an Arabian component to their genes.. but Dienekes' "North African" component, which is really a made up one composed of a mixture of SW Asian, Med, and Sub-Saharan masks it .

This genetic component in northafricans is very related to phenotype of 90% of maghrebi population.

Libya is another thing because "arab" lybians tend to be whiter than other north africans, even whiter than average misrequi (egyptian).

[Prince Carlo]

http://www.upf.edu/enoticies/1112/_img/nordafricans.jpg

Always with those photos of blonde berbers? They are so rare, that I am starting to think that they don't exist.

[Ibericus]

They don't have much Arabian blood. Moroccans are Berbers with some SSA and in some cases European admix usually French or Iberian. Arabian influence is almost rare and nill in most of North Africa.
That is not true at all. Arabian ancestry, as represented by Southwest-Asian, averages 35% in Moroccans, these are for example the averages for moroccans in the Eurogenes WE.12.Q :

38.5% Atlanto-Med
35.4% Southwest-Asian (Arabian)
12.7% Sub-Saharan
9.4% East-African
2.0% Finnic
0.2% Baltic
0.0% North-Atlantic

[Prince Carlo]

That is not true at all. Arabian ancestry, as represented by Southwest-Asian, averages 35% in Moroccans, these are for example the averages for moroccans in the Eurogenes WE.12.Q :

38.5% Atlanto-Med
35.4% Southwest-Asian (Arabian)
12.7% Sub-Saharan
9.4% East-African
2.0% Finnic
0.2% Baltic
0.0% North-Atlantic

Yes, but there is no NWA admix, so it's obvious that the algorithm is using the SWA admix as a proxy. Moroccan_D has about 15% SWA admix on K12b.

[Alvarado]

Always with those photos of blonde berbers? They are so rare, that I am starting to think that they don't exist.

They exist, most of them live in a country called internet.

[Ibericus]

Yes, but there is no NWA admix, so it's obvious that the algorithm is using the SWA admix as a proxy. Moroccan_D has about 15% SWA admix on K12b.
Yes, but the NWA component is kinda fake, created by the inbred Mozabites. . In reality the NWA component is made of SW Asian, Med and some african.
In these last Eurogenes runs there was no NWA components.

[Prince Carlo]

Yes, but the NWA component is kinda fake, created by the inbred Mozabites. . In reality the NWA component is made of SW Asian, Med and some african.
In these last Eurogenes runs there was no NWA components.

And SWA is kinda fake too. It is made of proto-med alleles and some East African. In last Eurogenes runs there was no SWA compontes.

[Ibericus]

And SWA is kinda fake too. It is made of proto-med alleles and some East African. In last Eurogenes runs there was no SWA compontes.
That's not true. His last runs include SWA but not NWA. And the SWA is not fake, because even if you exclude arabians it always appears, while with the NWA is not the case when excluding Mozabites.

[Peyrol]

This is a thread about phisical appearence and culture, not about some hidden mDna.

[Ibericus]

This is a thread about phisical appearence and culture, not about some hidden mDna.
What else is to say ? North-african look north-african, the discussion is dead.

[Peyrol]

What else is to say ? North-african look north-african, the discussion is dead.

That's the point of the thread, infact.

[Kanuni]

This is a thread about phisical appearence and culture, not about some hidden mDna.

Why not?It is more reliable to bring genetics into discussion than focusing on eye color,how light or dark their skintone is.Anyway them being North African says something.There is just a portion of Kabyles/Riffians who would fit in Southern Europe otherwise they have their own distinctive look be it pure or negroid influenced Berbers.

[RowRow]

I don't know why, but on this forum there is the false fallacy that north africans are some kind of "european-like people".

False; i have 75,000 of these shits on my city and these are their average looks.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090921155703/nonciclopedia/images/6/65/Marocchino.jpg

http://www.melitoonline.it/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/MBENJAMIN_Benjamin-220x300.jpg

http://www2.melitoonline.it/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/zimane-219x300.jpg

http://www2.melitoonline.it/show_image_NpAdvSinglePhoto.php?filename=/2008/03/abdulnour-youssef-22-10-1984.jpeg&cat=17&pid=4466&cache=false

http://www.melotti.net/fotografie/persone-ritratti/beduino-arabo.jpg

http://www.ritalevimontalcini.org/fileup/Immagini/PROG.%2078.JPG

Well if there is such a misconception, it is not North Africans fault because they do not claim to be European. You will never find North Africans or Middle Eastern people say: I am a European and White. If they do, they do so to trick White Europeans to treat them as humans ;) as oppose to not.

American immigration policy tried to prevent Italian immigration because they thought you were inferior and not white like them, and the Germans would have assented if they didn't need Italian participation in the axis camp, so wake up. They called you 'guineas', alluding to Black African tribes. They call you 'wogs' today.

'Whiteness' has no currency any more. Even White neonazi are adopting aspects of black culture and mannerisms in order to get laid!!!! This is the sexual climate of our times, white equals sexually deficient. Not saying it is right or wrong but it is.

Italians will be thrown under the bus when their economy slides and you will realise my statements. Greeks are already being intruded into and given ultimatums by the northern countries as if they where third-world countries. The attitude towards Greece has changed for sure.

Those pictures you showed show people who could pass as Italian if they were shades lighter, easy! Plus you guys in Italy and Spain have more prognathous features than even some Sub Saharan groups like Somalis. Very unique, looking people in Spain, I must say:D.

Also don't be too quick to disparage. Southern Europeans are going to be begging North Africans to enter your countries to stop the coming chaos.

You can laugh, but remember you are laughing in front of a collapsing European Periphery.

South European are more catholic than the Pope when it comes to 'whiteness.' I take my hat off to the Germanic races for turning the tables on their ancient Greco-Roman masters, whom they now have on a leash barking at the other side of the Med.

[Peyrol]

Well if there is such a misconception, it is not North Africans fault because they do not claim to be European. You will never find North Africans or Middle Eastern people say: I am a European and White. If they do, they do so to trick White Europeans to treat them as humans ;) as oppose to not.

American immigration policy tried to prevent Italian immigration because they thought you were inferior and not white like them, and the Germans would have assented if they didn't need Italian participation in the axis camp, so wake up. They called you 'guineas', alluding to Black African tribes. They call you 'wogs' today.

'Whiteness' has no currency any more. Even White neonazi are adopting aspects of black culture and mannerisms in order to get laid!!!! This is the sexual climate of our times, white equals sexually deficient. Not saying it is right or wrong but it is.

Italians will be thrown under the bus when their economy slides and you will realise my statements. Greeks are already being intruded into and given ultimatums by the northern countries as if they where third-world countries. The attitude towards Greece has changed for sure.

Those pictures you showed show people who could pass as Italian if they were shades lighter, easy! Plus you guys in Italy and Spain have more prognathous features than even some Sub Saharan groups like Somalis. Very unique, looking people in Spain, I must say:D.

Also don't be too quick to disparage. Southern Europeans are going to be begging North Africans to enter your countries to stop the coming chaos.

You can laugh, but remember you are laughing in front of a collapsing European Periphery.

South European are more catholic than the Pope when it comes to 'whiteness.' I take my hat off to the Germanic races for turning the tables on their ancient Greco-Roman masters, whom they now have on a leash barking at the other side of the Med.


1) This thread is referred to americans and ignorant colonialsn, not to maghrebi. Unfortunately, maghrebi are proud of their mixed blood and they don't want absolutely to pass as "white".
2) "white" is a colonial term, don't belong tu Europe.
3)"Italian ethnicity" don't exist, i don't know how you talk about us as a compact group. And why you talk about (again...always this topic...) sicilian immigration in USA. I'm not southerner and sicilian and i don't mind about these people.
4) Nobody of these people would pass here, neithern in the deep south.
5) about "peripery collapse and maghrebization"....i know well the situation, i live in a city wich is 15% northafrican.
6) Read all the thread, please...there are 21 pages after your quote.

[RowRow]

1) This thread is referred to americans and ignorant colonialsn, not to maghrebi. Unfortunately, maghrebi are proud of their mixed blood and they don't want absolutely to pass as "white".
2) "white" is a colonial term, don't belong tu Europe.
3)"Italian ethnicity" don't exist, i don't know how you talk about us as a compact group. And why you talk about (again...always this topic...) sicilian immigration in USA. I'm not southerner and sicilian and i don't mind about these people.
4) Nobody of these people would pass here, neithern in the deep south.
5) about "peripery collapse and maghrebization"....i know well the situation, i live in a city wich is 15% northafrican.
6) Read all the thread, please...there are 21 pages after your quote.

You are not coherent, poor guy.

[Peyrol]

You are not coherent, poor guy.

Yes, instead a mashriqui girl in a EUROPEAN forum is coherent...:rolleyes:

[RowRow]

Yes, instead a mashriqui girl in a EUROPEAN forum is coherent...:rolleyes:

My father Egyptian mother is Moroccan, so it is coherent for me to speak on the subject of North Africa.

Get some English lessons.

[Peyrol]

My father Egyptian mother is Moroccan, so it is coherent for me to speak on the subject of North Africa.

Get some English lessons.

Welcome back Kacca/Kosovojesrbia...all ok?

[Vasconcelos]

My father Egyptian mother is Moroccan

What are you doing here, then?

[Ibericus]

Well if there is such a misconception, it is not North Africans fault because they do not claim to be European. You will never find North Africans or Middle Eastern people say: I am a European and White. If they do, they do so to trick White Europeans to treat them as humans ;) as oppose to not.

American immigration policy tried to prevent Italian immigration because they thought you were inferior and not white like them, and the Germans would have assented if they didn't need Italian participation in the axis camp, so wake up. They called you 'guineas', alluding to Black African tribes. They call you 'wogs' today.

'Whiteness' has no currency any more. Even White neonazi are adopting aspects of black culture and mannerisms in order to get laid!!!! This is the sexual climate of our times, white equals sexually deficient. Not saying it is right or wrong but it is.

Italians will be thrown under the bus when their economy slides and you will realise my statements. Greeks are already being intruded into and given ultimatums by the northern countries as if they where third-world countries. The attitude towards Greece has changed for sure.

Those pictures you showed show people who could pass as Italian if they were shades lighter, easy! Plus you guys in Italy and Spain have more prognathous features than even some Sub Saharan groups like Somalis. Very unique, looking people in Spain, I must say:D.

Also don't be too quick to disparage. Southern Europeans are going to be begging North Africans to enter your countries to stop the coming chaos.

You can laugh, but remember you are laughing in front of a collapsing European Periphery.

South European are more catholic than the Pope when it comes to 'whiteness.' I take my hat off to the Germanic races for turning the tables on their ancient Greco-Roman masters, whom they now have on a leash barking at the other side of the Med.
What a load of bullshit.

[Lábaru]

Well if there is such a misconception, it is not North Africans fault because they do not claim to be European. You will never find North Africans or Middle Eastern people say: I am a European and White. If they do, they do so to trick White Europeans to treat them as humans ;) as oppose to not.

American immigration policy tried to prevent Italian immigration because they thought you were inferior and not white like them, and the Germans would have assented if they didn't need Italian participation in the axis camp, so wake up. They called you 'guineas', alluding to Black African tribes. They call you 'wogs' today.

'Whiteness' has no currency any more. Even White neonazi are adopting aspects of black culture and mannerisms in order to get laid!!!! This is the sexual climate of our times, white equals sexually deficient. Not saying it is right or wrong but it is.

Italians will be thrown under the bus when their economy slides and you will realise my statements. Greeks are already being intruded into and given ultimatums by the northern countries as if they where third-world countries. The attitude towards Greece has changed for sure.

Those pictures you showed show people who could pass as Italian if they were shades lighter, easy! Plus you guys in Italy and Spain have more prognathous features than even some Sub Saharan groups like Somalis. Very unique, looking people in Spain, I must say:D.

Also don't be too quick to disparage. Southern Europeans are going to be begging North Africans to enter your countries to stop the coming chaos.

You can laugh, but remember you are laughing in front of a collapsing European Periphery.

South European are more catholic than the Pope when it comes to 'whiteness.' I take my hat off to the Germanic races for turning the tables on their ancient Greco-Roman masters, whom they now have on a leash barking at the other side of the Med.

you are very angry with the world, especially Europe, right? I think that you need some time with your countrymen, to soften your character, they will teach you how you should behave with men.

[RowRow]

You looser Europeans concoct these notions of a European presence in North Africa :confused: Only the Greeks might have been able to plant their seeds in antiquity, but as for the Islamic period, European slaves were castrated, so they could not infect us with characteristics which were unsuitable for our climate like introvertedness, social reticence ect. Maternal intrusions are another story.

Yes the myth is bollocks! Especially this rubbish of a Nordic presence. Trust me there is no Nordic infection of our part of the world. Who are Nordics anyway? They don't even have a civilisation of their own. Yet they write about themselves (note: no one else promotes them but themselves) as a civilising force all over the wide earth. Scandinavia has no history compared to other parts of the world. They are even less crucial that the average non-Med European who only enters history in the 15century from civilisational obscurity. Its a disgrace. Nordics, just skate across the ice back to your cave you blanched beggars. I have no tolerance for you, you are merely quiet shy pigeons collecting the crumbs of other cultures.

[Lábaru]

You looser Europeans concoct these notions of a European presence in North Africa :confused: Only the Greeks might have been able to plant their seeds in antiquity, but as for the Islamic period, European slaves were castrated, so they could not infect us .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandals
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Vandals_Migration_it.PNG/400px-Vandals_Migration_it.PNG

and --->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Moriscos

[Willem]

The Moroccans who live in the Netherlands are relatively light and Caucasoid looking.

Mostly like this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Aboutaleb_Dutch_politician_kabinet_Balkenende_IV.j pg/264px-Aboutaleb_Dutch_politician_kabinet_Balkenende_IV.j pg
http://www.freewebs.com/wierdenswijfie/Najib%20Amhali.jpg
http://www.wegaanvlammen.nl/img/artikelen/hoofd/foto_2348_boulahrouz-voor-het-ek-duidelijkheid-over-toekomst.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ck6LQcv4sOg/TNIuPvbbYzI/AAAAAAAAdP8/HvOoY7Cs6YI/s1600/Ibrahim+Afellay+10.jpg

[Lábaru]

The Moroccans who live in the Netherlands are relatively light and Caucasoid looking.


http://tundratabloids.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Mohammed-Bouyeri-murderer-of-van-gogh.jpg

[Peyrol]

What are you doing here, then?

The correct question is: what are you doing in Britain?

[Willem]

@Lábaru,
I said most of them, of course not all. The ones I see do not look as SSA influenced as those examples posted by Perduellio. These are typical Moroccans I see here, they look mainly Mediterranean to me:

http://i49.tinypic.com/apk4mp.jpg
http://onm.bnn.nl/data/media//db_images/original/55383_b4ace3.jpg
http://www.fashionscene.nl/images/library/articles/Iliass4.jpg
http://www.petersmulders.nl/500px/Jun2009-2/Mohammed%20Chaara%20220109043.JPG
http://www.dvhn.nl/migration_catalog/anp_images_dvhn/article8110991.ece/BINARY/original/img-050711-238_onl_2125022a.jpg
http://www.roughtrade.nl/cover_images/8718026034399.jpg
http://www.wijblijvenhier.nl/uploads/2007/rabia.jpg
http://v1.studenten.net/graphics/content/pictures/14-4-2011-12-9-dara_faiziii.jpg
http://anjameulenbelt.sp.nl/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/aaaadakira-22.jpg

[Peyrol]

^

You're lucky, whilem. Of the 75,000 moroccans in my city, 90% of them looks like the pictures in the first pages.

Anyway, some of your picture shows cleary northafr. features.

[Willem]

I read the Moroccans in the Netherlands are mainly of Riffian Berber origin (North Morocco).

[Peyrol]

I read the Moroccans in the Netherlands are mainly of Riffian Berber (North Morocco) origin though.

Probabily...moroccans here are from south-east atlante (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Atlas) and sahrawhi (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westelijke_Sahara).

[Lábaru]

@Lábaru,
I said most of them, of course not all. The ones I see do not look as SSA influenced as those examples posted by Perduellio. These are typical Moroccans I see here, they look mainly Mediterranean to me:

http://i49.tinypic.com/apk4mp.jpg
http://onm.bnn.nl/data/media//db_images/original/55383_b4ace3.jpg
http://www.fashionscene.nl/images/library/articles/Iliass4.jpg
http://www.petersmulders.nl/500px/Jun2009-2/Mohammed%20Chaara%20220109043.JPG
http://www.dvhn.nl/migration_catalog/anp_images_dvhn/article8110991.ece/BINARY/original/img-050711-238_onl_2125022a.jpg
http://www.roughtrade.nl/cover_images/8718026034399.jpg
http://www.wijblijvenhier.nl/uploads/2007/rabia.jpg
http://v1.studenten.net/graphics/content/pictures/14-4-2011-12-9-dara_faiziii.jpg
http://anjameulenbelt.sp.nl/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/aaaadakira-22.jpg


Yes, I am agree, those faces are the ones I see in Spain, and I've seen in Morocco.

[Peyrol]

Yes, I am agree, those faces are the ones I see in Spain, and I've seen in Morocco.

Only 1 of 10 moroccan immigrants here have this skintone. :(

[Ibericus]

@Lábaru,
I said most of them, of course not all. The ones I see do not look as SSA influenced as those examples posted by Perduellio. These are typical Moroccans I see here, they look mainly Mediterranean to me:

http://i49.tinypic.com/apk4mp.jpg
http://onm.bnn.nl/data/media//db_images/original/55383_b4ace3.jpg
http://www.fashionscene.nl/images/library/articles/Iliass4.jpg
http://www.petersmulders.nl/500px/Jun2009-2/Mohammed%20Chaara%20220109043.JPG
http://www.dvhn.nl/migration_catalog/anp_images_dvhn/article8110991.ece/BINARY/original/img-050711-238_onl_2125022a.jpg
http://www.roughtrade.nl/cover_images/8718026034399.jpg
http://www.wijblijvenhier.nl/uploads/2007/rabia.jpg
http://v1.studenten.net/graphics/content/pictures/14-4-2011-12-9-dara_faiziii.jpg
http://anjameulenbelt.sp.nl/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/aaaadakira-22.jpg
mediterranean ? They still look moroccan and north-african.


I read the Moroccans in the Netherlands are mainly of Riffian Berber origin (North Morocco).
In many parts of Spain they are also mostly Riffian.

[Willem]

mediterranean ? They still look moroccan and north-african.

North Africa is also on the Mediterranean, the looks overlap with South Europeans, sometimes I can't tell the difference between you guys.

[Lábaru]

Only 1 of 10 moroccan immigrants here have this skintone. :(

Morocco is a big country, from north to south.

http://www.clubdeviajes.org/graphics/map/mo-mapa-pais.gif

anyway, who care about their skin color? they do not belong to Italy.

[The Lawspeaker]

I read the Moroccans in the Netherlands are mainly of Riffian Berber origin (North Morocco).

Either way: they are scum.




anyway, who care about their skin color? they do not belong to Italy.

Or here for that matter. Send them back to Goatfuckistan.

[Peyrol]

North Africa is also on the Mediterranean, the looks overlap with South Europeans, sometimes I can't tell the difference between you guys.

No.
An this is the purpose of this thread.

[Peyrol]

anyway, who care about their skin color? they do not belong to Italy.

They're the ruin of my city: Torino was called La Parigi d'Italia before the massive maghrebi immigration.

[Ibericus]

North Africa is also on the Mediterranean, the looks overlap with South Europeans, sometimes I can't tell the difference between you guys.
well I live in Catalonia, and here most moroccans are Riffians. No, there isn't an overlap.

[Peyrol]

They're the ruin of my city: Torino was called La Parigi d'Italia before the massive maghrebi immigration.

...and now is again "La Parigi d'Italia"...because both the cities are overrunned by maghrebi. :lol:

[Willem]

well I live in Catalonia, and here most moroccans are Riffians. No, there isn't an overlap.

I have been to Spain several times and some of the native Spaniards look like North Africans to me.

[Vasconcelos]

I have been to Spain several times and some of the native Spaniards look like North Africans to me.

You're not very good at distinguishing people apart then..

[Peyrol]

I have been to Spain several times and some of the native Spaniards look like North Africans to me.

An example about my region in Italy: these are piedmonteis (north-western italians).
You can't real distinguish them from average maghrebi (see the first pages)...?

http://images-srv.leonardo.it/canali/gossip/fotogallery/338/474424d4524ff.jpg

http://cdn.blogosfere.it/tvboomerang/images/foto_chiabotto_F2.jpg

http://www.tuononews.it/tn/all/FCD2995935F9B15BC125790C007D8D0F/$FILE/martina%20invernizzi.JPG

http://fidest.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/chantal-raimondo.jpg

http://www.corrierecaraibi.com/images/missmuretto.jpg

http://politici.openpolis.it/politician/picture?content_id=323

http://politici.openpolis.it/politician/picture?content_id=393

http://www.brigantaggio.net/brigantaggio/Personaggi/Cavur1.JPG

[Vasconcelos]

non-Basque Iberians have 3% Sub-Saharan genes, maybe that explains it.

No they don't, wtf.

[Übermensch]

North Africa is also on the Mediterranean, the looks overlap with South Europeans, sometimes I can't tell the difference between you guys.

Typical Southern European:

http://dienekes.ifreepages.com/texts/biasutticaucasoid/littoral2.jpg

Typical north African:

http://dienekes.ifreepages.com/texts/biasutticaucasoid/libyan2.jpg

Don't overlap at all.

[Aces High]

Northern Europeans and South Africans overlap.

North Africans arent even in the same ballpark.........................they arent even in the same sport.

[Prince Carlo]

That's not true. His last runs include SWA but not NWA.

In Eurogenes K=8 there is no SWA.


And the SWA is not fake, because even if you exclude arabians it always appears, while with the NWA is not the case when excluding Mozabites.

This does not make sense. Care to explain? And Saudi Arabians are about 68% SWA on K12b, so it is not centered on them.

[Willem]

Typical Southern European:

http://dienekes.ifreepages.com/texts/biasutticaucasoid/littoral2.jpg

Typical north African:

http://dienekes.ifreepages.com/texts/biasutticaucasoid/libyan2.jpg

Don't overlap at all.

Southern European:
http://gumbomonster.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/20070916111234_sicilian_man_sigar.jpg

North African:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/Idir_Hamid_Cheriet.JPG/546px-Idir_Hamid_Cheriet.JPG

Don't overlap at all. :rolleyes:

[Übermensch]

Southern European:
http://gumbomonster.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/20070916111234_sicilian_man_sigar.jpg

North African:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/Idir_Hamid_Cheriet.JPG/546px-Idir_Hamid_Cheriet.JPG

Don't overlap at all.

We must consider the averege population not isolated cases.

[Peyrol]

Southern European:
http://gumbomonster.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/20070916111234_sicilian_man_sigar.jpg



This is a gypsy in a gypsy camp...never seen a single native man like this in my entire life:rolleyes:

[Prince Carlo]

Southern European:
http://gumbomonster.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/20070916111234_sicilian_man_sigar.jpg

North African:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/Idir_Hamid_Cheriet.JPG/546px-Idir_Hamid_Cheriet.JPG

Don't overlap at all. :rolleyes:

Southern European:

http://www.celtavigo.net/Portal/recursos/fichas/10.jpg

North African:

http://www.newz.it/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/ayouch.jpg

[Peyrol]

You don't replied me about this post....i'm really interested in your answer. :)



An example about my region in Italy: these are piedmonteis (north-western italians).
You can't real distinguish them from average maghrebi (see the first pages)...?

http://images-srv.leonardo.it/canali/gossip/fotogallery/338/474424d4524ff.jpg

http://cdn.blogosfere.it/tvboomerang/images/foto_chiabotto_F2.jpg

http://www.tuononews.it/tn/all/FCD2995935F9B15BC125790C007D8D0F/$FILE/martina%20invernizzi.JPG

http://fidest.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/chantal-raimondo.jpg

http://www.corrierecaraibi.com/images/missmuretto.jpg

http://politici.openpolis.it/politician/picture?content_id=323

http://politici.openpolis.it/politician/picture?content_id=393

http://www.brigantaggio.net/brigantaggio/Personaggi/Cavur1.JPG

[gold_fenix]

non-Basque Iberians have 3% Sub-Saharan genes, maybe that explains it.

Spain's averages (Polako's):

38.74% Southern European
33.70% North Atlantic ("Irish" - Celtic)
16.21% North Sea (as discussed in this thread, probably "Gothic" mostly)
10.40% North-Central European
0.75% Sub-Saharan African
0.16% Eastern European
0.04% North + East Eurasian

and all % low of 1% is considered noise

[StonyArabia]

Riffians and Kabyles are darker than the average Syrian. Syrians outside of Europe have the highest rates of blondism and light eyes if you exlude the Caucasus, but they seem content that they are Syrians. Blond Berbers are very rare and almost non-existent.

Here are Kabyles they don't look European to me they look North African and can fit most of the Middle East first before Europe:

http://s14.postimage.org/6gxbf733l/Kabyle.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image upload (http://postimage.org/)

http://s7.postimage.org/9zfab8q2j/Kabyle3.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
free picture hosting (http://postimage.org/)

http://s18.postimage.org/jwqb4s31l/Kabyle4.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image upload (http://postimage.org/)

http://s16.postimage.org/m5u7qqev9/kabyles3df.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image hosting (http://postimage.org/)

http://s18.postimage.org/5rp3gpje1/Kabyle2.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
jpg upload (http://postimage.org/)

http://s18.postimage.org/fvieqlpih/Kabyles4.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
upload pictures (http://postimage.org/)

[Ibericus]

non-Basque Iberians have 3% Sub-Saharan genes, maybe that explains it.
Wtf are you talking about, it's not even 0.02% plus spaniards on genetic plots cluster between French and North-Italians, whereas north-africans don't cluster with any european they are far away.

[Prince Carlo]

http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1001373

There are some big methodological flaws in that paper.

http://dienekes.blogspot.it/2011/04/sub-saharan-admixture-in-west-eurasian.html

[Lábaru]

Riffians and Kabyles are darker than the average Syrian. Syrians outside of Europe have the highest rates of blondism and light eyes if you exlude the Caucasus, but they seem content that they are Syrians. Blond Berbers are very rare and almost non-existent.

Here are Kabyles they don't look European to me they look North African and can fit most of the Middle East first before Europe:

http://s14.postimage.org/6gxbf733l/Kabyle.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image upload (http://postimage.org/)

http://s7.postimage.org/9zfab8q2j/Kabyle3.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
free picture hosting (http://postimage.org/)

http://s18.postimage.org/jwqb4s31l/Kabyle4.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image upload (http://postimage.org/)

http://s16.postimage.org/m5u7qqev9/kabyles3df.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image hosting (http://postimage.org/)

http://s18.postimage.org/5rp3gpje1/Kabyle2.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
jpg upload (http://postimage.org/)

http://s18.postimage.org/fvieqlpih/Kabyles4.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
upload pictures (http://postimage.org/)

Now the reality in groups of people from Syria :)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FJ8YdKCZRbU/TkLucU7kdAI/AAAAAAAAAGo/VFgAJkd61eQ/s1600/manifestaciones-siria-a-favor.jpg
http://noticias.starmedia.com/imagenes/2011/06/manifestaciones-siria-300x202.jpg
http://imagenes.lapatilla.s3.amazonaws.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Siria-manifestaciones.jpg
http://photos.end.com.ni/2011/10/639x360_1318002894_Manifestaci%C3%B3n%20Siria.jpg
http://noticias.terra.es/2011/mundo/0828/fotos-media/siria-represion-una-persona-muere-en-siria-por-disparos-en-las-manifestaciones-segun-los-opositores$599x0.jpg
http://alianzaliberal.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/laproximaguerrasiriamanifestacionesbaniasbread.jpg

[Lábaru]

http://www.abc.es/Media/201106/21/siria--644x362.jpg
http://www.rtve.es/imagenes/siria-intentan-detener-manifestaciones/1304884806317.jpg
http://www.heraldo.es/uploads/imagenes/bajacalidad/_siria_67022eb6.jpg
http://static.noticiasdegipuzkoa.com/images/2012/03/09/siria-manifestaciones_1.jpg
http://www.larazon.com.ar/manifestaciones-gobierno-sirio-dan-pais_IECIMA20110425_0016_7.jpg
http://cubaout.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/siria.jpg?w=750
http://www.estrelladigital.es/mundo/Manifestaciones-Siria_ESTIMA20110425_0021_10.jpg

[Peyrol]

^

Like the REAL average moroccan i posted in the first page (take a look of the pictures of the moroccan protests, in Marrakesh squares...)

[Lábaru]

^

Like the REAL average moroccan i posted in the first page (take a look of the pictures of the moroccan protests, in Marrakesh squares...)

http://identidadandaluza.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/manifestacion-marruecos.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eyHkPTGpbBA/TZnhmJfkfVI/AAAAAAAAAMI/DgkFXKxu7oM/s1600/manifestaciones-en-marruecos-610x430.jpg
http://m1.paperblog.com/i/56/563793/manifestacion-marruecos-al-menos-diez-heridos-L-BXFN0S.jpeg
http://www.webislam.com/media/2011/11/50151_manifestacion_marruecos_20f_big.png
http://www.cuv3.com/wp-content/uploads/manifestacion_marruecos2.jpg
http://imagenes.publico.es/resources/archivos/2011/6/6/1307324590828rabatdn.jpg
http://www.diarioprogresista.es/imagenes/fotosdeldia/manifestacion_marruecos.jpg
http://photos.end.com.ni/2011/02/639x360_1298216805_Marruecos.jpg
http://estaticos03.cache.el-mundo.net/elmundo/imagenes/2011/03/22/internacional/1300790383_0.jpg
http://globedia.com/imagenes/noticias/2012/3/5/manifestaciones-marruecos-dejan-heridos_1_1121207.jpg
http://estaticos03.cache.el-mundo.net/elmundo/imagenes/2011/06/05/internacional/1307298743_0.jpg
http://www.cgtandalucia.org/IMG/jpg/Karim_004.jpg

[Peyrol]

I repost also these recent pictures of maghrebi/mauritani illegals landed in Lampedusa (Sicilia).

http://www.livenews24.it/articolsImages/6/3/8/a/6/375_0.jpg

http://www.latinosmagazine.it/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Clandestini-a-Lampedusa.jpg

http://images2.corriereobjects.it/gallery/Cronache/2011/03_Marzo/sbarchi/1/img_1/sbar_01_672-458_resize.jpg

http://www.blitzquotidiano.it/wp/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/small_110307-101214_mi070311cro_0003.jpg

http://www.livenews24.it/articolsImages/6/3/2/e/f/638_0.jpg

[Peyrol]

Some moroccans from my city (Torino)

http://foto.ilsole24ore.com/Job/News/2009/convegno-giovani-musulmani-torino/img_convegno-giovani-musulmani-torino/i_01_352-288.jpg

http://jobtalk.blog.ilsole24ore.com/.a/6a00e54eda81ae88330128760e94a2970c-250wi

http://www.mixamag.it/files/images/gallerieFotografiche/2010/000018/DSC_0020.JPG

http://tg24.sky.it/static/contentimages/original/sezioni/tg24/cronaca/2011/04/03/manduria_fuga_migranti_manduria_taranto_3_aprile_0 9.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MeDNBkHTLOM/Te_mFVtMegI/AAAAAAAABlU/EeeNgPukxkQ/s1600/Alcuni-profughi-nel-Cie-di-Manduria.jpg

[RowRow]

Riffians and Kabyles are darker than the average Syrian. Syrians outside of Europe have the highest rates of blondism and light eyes if you exlude the Caucasus, but they seem content that they are Syrians. Blond Berbers are very rare and almost non-existent.

Here are Kabyles they don't look European to me they look North African and can fit most of the Middle East first before Europe:

http://s14.postimage.org/6gxbf733l/Kabyle.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image upload (http://postimage.org/)

http://s7.postimage.org/9zfab8q2j/Kabyle3.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
free picture hosting (http://postimage.org/)

http://s18.postimage.org/jwqb4s31l/Kabyle4.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image upload (http://postimage.org/)

http://s16.postimage.org/m5u7qqev9/kabyles3df.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image hosting (http://postimage.org/)

http://s18.postimage.org/5rp3gpje1/Kabyle2.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
jpg upload (http://postimage.org/)

http://s18.postimage.org/fvieqlpih/Kabyles4.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
upload pictures (http://postimage.org/)

I think your comment is the best vessel of the truth.

North Africa have never been 'white' or European, but some deranged people say it was otherwise in ancient times, then it became more black. These people probably took trips to ancient N.A in their mind, that's all.


I laughed at those ugly mugshots they selected, and thought, poor guys, they thought they were coming to El-Dorado by reaching Europe, but rather they ended up in terra deficiti aka backwater of Europe aka Italy LMAO...their appearance conveys expectations shattered to fine grains...my mugshot would be terrible too if I found out what they did.

[Peyrol]

I think your comment is the best vessel of the truth.

North Africa have never been 'white' or European, but some deranged people say it was otherwise in ancient times, then it became more black. These people probably took trips to ancient N.A in their mind, that's all.


I laughed at those ugly mugshots they selected, and thought, poor guys, they thought they were coming to El-Dorado by reaching Europe, but rather they ended up in terra deficiti aka backwater of Europe aka Italy LMAO...their appearance conveys expectations shattered to fine grains...my mugshot would be terrible too if I found out what they did.

...which is the 3rd euro economy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy), instead of egypt which is a salafhi sari'a dictature.
Poor Mubarak...

Anyway, the right thing to do with maghrebi illegals boats is only one:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/BB61_USS_Iowa_BB61_broadside_USN.jpg/325px-BB61_USS_Iowa_BB61_broadside_USN.jpg

...let this semithic muslim scum to your dirty land of scorpions and desert. Europe for europeans.
You muslim are the ruin of Europe.

[Kanuni]

@RowRow go ride your desert Ferrari aka the Camel you Semitic Lizard.

[Sikeliot]

To the comment that said you could mistake them for Syrians, I don't think so. Syrians are more East Med and Armenoid, both of which seem to be rare in North Africa.

[The Lawspeaker]

....
You don't need the Italians for that. Just send some French, British and Dutch ships down and give them a blank cheque (the "morality" of the politician is not the same as the " let's fuck 'em up !"- mentality of the average sailor or Marine. Also ask a country that we can take seriously like Turkey or maybe Spain to assist us and use ports along the Med is the temporal home base.

[Prince Carlo]

This thread is not about ships and economy. So stick to the topic.

[Peyrol]

OT deleted.

Return to the main topic.

[Sikeliot]

North Africans in Italy seem blacker than coastal North Africans.. perhaps they come from further south?

[Peyrol]

North Africans in Italy seem blacker than coastal North Africans.. perhaps they come from further south?

Moroccan Atlante (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Atlas) and Saharawhi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sahara), but many also from Marrakesh.

[Sikeliot]

Moroccan Atlante (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Atlas) and Saharawhi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sahara), but many also from Marrakesh.

Ah.
Moroccans seem blacker to me than other North Africans, on average.

[Peyrol]

Ah.
Moroccans seem blacker to me than other North Africans, on average.

Yes, something from 10 to 25% black, as i wrote in the first pages.

[Libertas]

North Africans in Italy seem blacker than coastal North Africans.. perhaps they come from further south?

They come mainly from central Morocco (Chaouia-Ouardigha; Tadla-Azilal etc) and Grand Casablanca. The rest are more from around Rabat and Sale but rarely from the Rif or northern Morocco.

[Prince Carlo]

well I live in Catalonia, and here most moroccans are Riffians. No, there isn't an overlap.

That's true. I saw it myself when I was in Catalonia. Even the Riffians look completely alien to S.Europe.

[StonyArabia]

That's true. I saw it myself when I was in Catalonia. Even the Riffians look completely alien to S.Europe.

Yep, neither Kabyles nor Riffians look Southern Euro. They are on average darker than Levantines, and have clear North African Wog look to them. So what if few of them show blondism, it means nothing in the end. The Kabyles and the general Algerian population don't look much different, the same is true of Moroccans in regards to Riffians, the exception being Southern Moroccans. Anyways I doubt North Africa was White or European like, the Atlas Berbers are the closest thing to the original ones they look nothing like Euros. As well the Berbers seem to originated rather an area near the Levant and Arabia. However it could be that North Africa had several waves.

[Moonbird]

Basically only people of European descent.

[Peyrol]

Bum since the topic is an evergreen

[Peyrol]

Other examples of ''white nort africans'', :lol:

http://www.maroccoggi.it/images/stories/Marocchini%20in%20Italia.jpg

http://tg24.sky.it/static/contentimages/original/sezioni/tg24/mondo/2011/01/29/manifestazioni_egitto_europa_manifestazioni_egitto _parigi_getty4.jpg

[Anthropologique]

Today's "Berbers" are not at all like the original Berbers who may have migrated from the Caspian region to N. Africa eons ago. Like night and day.

[Peyrol]

Today's "Berbers" are not at all like the original Berbers who may have migrated from the Caspian region to N. Africa eons ago. Like night and day.

Yup.

Almohads brought a lot of mauritani and wolof slaves into the Maghreb...unmixed berbers are less than 15% of the population, IMHO.

[Anthropologique]

The overwhelming majority of Berbers mixed with Arabs and negroids (from the Senegal) during the Muslim advance across N. Africa.

[Amun]

We (Egyptians) never claimed to be white at all. We have diversity among us. the most admixed Egyptians in the deep south score 20% or more SSA.

This is how coastal Egyptian looks like
http://new.elfagr.org/Portal_News/big/154041201345894.jpg

Middle Egypt
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/arz/thumb/4/44/%D8%AD%D9%83%D9%8A%D9%85.jpg/300px-%D8%AD%D9%83%D9%8A%D9%85.jpg

Southern Egyptian
http://www.akhbarbaladna.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%B7%D9%81%D9%89-%D8%A8%D9%83%D8%B1%D9%89.gif

a Nubian
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ryz40B6bO2c/Sqb34YKgV5I/AAAAAAAAHGU/4-okuWZFBx4/s400/Hamza+El+Din.jpg


None of the above can be regarded as White (European) or black (except for the last one).

[Anthropologique]

Yup.

Almohads brought a lot of mauritani and wolof slaves into the Maghreb...unmixed berbers are less than 15% of the population, IMHO.

Surely, no more than 15%. I once thought 20%, but not now. North Africa turned into a human genetic toilet more than a thousand years ago.

[Peyrol]

Well, maybe the title was misunderstooding...i think of ''maghrebi'' when i think of ''north africans''.

[Swearengen]

I know an algerian berber who looks pseudo-european.

[Tropico]

I mean Ive seen a lot of North Africans who look fully Caucasoid. Just because some have SSA doesnt mean they all do.

[StonyArabia]

The overwhelming majority of Berbers mixed with Arabs and negroids (from the Senegal) during the Muslim advance across N. Africa.

Arab admixture is nill in most of North Africa, especially areas like Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia. It's more in Libya, but there is more Arabian admixture in Western Egypt, and they are not much mixed with Arabians themselves.

[Anglojew]

I don't know why, but on this forum there is the false fallacy that north africans are some kind of "european-like people".

False; i have 75,000 of these shits on my city and these are their average looks.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090921155703/nonciclopedia/images/6/65/Marocchino.jpg

http://www.melitoonline.it/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/MBENJAMIN_Benjamin-220x300.jpg

http://www2.melitoonline.it/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/zimane-219x300.jpg

http://www2.melitoonline.it/show_image_NpAdvSinglePhoto.php?filename=/2008/03/abdulnour-youssef-22-10-1984.jpeg&cat=17&pid=4466&cache=false

http://www.melotti.net/fotografie/persone-ritratti/beduino-arabo.jpg

http://www.ritalevimontalcini.org/fileup/Immagini/PROG.%2078.JPG

They used to be white but are now usually admixed with SSA to varying degrees.

[Anthropologique]

Well, I kind of disagree here.

The Caucasoidness (I avoid the term "whiteness") of native Berbers in the Maghreb is true, not a myth. What is false is the frequency, as most North Africans are partially mixed with other Africans. It is quite likely, though, that they look much swarthier in Italy than in Iberia, as I'm guessing many there are from Lybia and Egypt, while here most are from the Rif. Yet they are easily distinguishable all the same in most cases.

I don't know the figures about North Africans descending from Moriscos or people influenced by European colonials in the 19th/20th centuries. But again I'm sure they're more in northern Morocco and Algeria than in Lybia and Egypt.

This is what I consider a Berber Caucasoid.

http://es.hibamusic.com/ajouter2/files_uploded/photos_artiste/full_size/aziz-el-berkani-1744-23282-8799434.jpghttp://a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/118/551c553a915e4239b6a845d2055c368d/l.jpg

The majority of the Euro looking Moroccans are really descendants of Mozarabs who were expelled by Spain and Portugal. They aren't really N. Africans.

[Peyrol]

I mean Ive seen a lot of North Africans who look fully Caucasoid. Just because some have SSA doesnt mean they all do.

You live in a different world than me or the dutch members of the forum, then, since we're used to live in countries with millions of NAs.

Obviously, as always happen, americans talk without any kind of knowlege of the rest of the world.

There are 25 pages of thread with hundreds of pictures of real north africans (and noth the usual cherrypiking you can see on the anthrophoras), just take a look.

[Incal]

Obviously, as always happen, americans talk without any kind of knowlege of the rest of the world.


That's always a constant. As a matter of fact, if it were not for the Internet, most yanks here would think the world is just America (US that is), Canada, Mexico, China, the evil axis and the Russkies.

[Peyrol]

That's always a constant. As a matter of fact, if it were not for the Internet, most yanks here would think the world is just America (US that is), Canada, Mexico, China, the evil axis and the Russkies.

...and Peru still the land of Atahualpa and Tupac Amaru, lol.

[Incal]

...and Peru still the land of Atahualpa and Tupac Amaru, lol.

To be honest, unless it were an archeology student or a missionary, I've never met a yank who knows anything about Peru.

[Loki]

The northernmost part of Morocco is said to be fairer than the southern half of Iberia.

[Tropico]

You live in a different world than me or the dutch members of the forum, then, since we're used to live in countries with millions of NAs.

Obviously, as always happen, americans talk without any kind of knowlege of the rest of the world.

There are 25 pages of thread with hundreds of pictures of real north africans (and noth the usual cherrypiking you can see on the anthrophoras), just take a look.

What are you TALKING about. I have LIVED in Europe. Ive seen them with my own eyes. Typical "Non American" assuming that any one that lives in America is uncultured yet ive lived in Europe and traveled all over it.

[Loki]

The northernmost part of Morocco is said to be fairer than the southern half of Iberia.

It's the Riffians:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riffian_people

Physical anthropology

Riffian Berbers are defined as Mediterranean. While only a few tribes have moderate Alpinid and Nordic admixture, these tribes are closer to Europeans than to Africans.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Location_Rif.PNG/255px-Location_Rif.PNG

There are almost 5 million of them in Morocco (not to be confused with other Moroccans).

[Peyrol]

I live in a city with 70,000 moroccans and they look as the people i posted in the previous 24 pages.

[Loki]

I live in a city with 70,000 moroccans and they look as the people i posted in the previous 24 pages.

There are over 30 million Moroccans, but only around 5 million are Riffians. So one cannot come to any sort of conclusion around that - it is likely that mostly non-Riffians - especially Arabs - are in your city.

[Prince Carlo]

The northernmost part of Morocco is said to be fairer than the southern half of Iberia.

The Northernmost part of Turkey is said to be fairer than the southern half of Russia/Ukraine.