What should be done with New "Europeans"?

[Hors]

There are a lot of peoples in Europe who are racially Europid but have non-European origin. They reside here for centuries and even milleniums and their non-European past is largely forgotten/unknown.

I'm talking about Jews, Gypsies, Turkics (Tatars, Turks), Finnics (Finns, Estonians, Hungarians etc.).

What should be done about them?

[Æmeric]

Why should anything be done about the Finns, Estonians or Hungarians? They are European & have their own nation states. The Turks have Turkey - just repatriate the one already in Europe. The Tatars have Tatarstan in Russia. The Jews can go to Palestine (though I prefer the Madagascan Plan) & the Gypsies to India.

[The Lawspeaker]

I'm talking about Jews, Preferably to Israel.


Gypsies, Out (I don't care where)


Turkics (Tatars, Turks), Out (The Turks to Turkey minus Asia Minor and Constitanople and the Tatars to Tatarstan)


Finnics (Finns, Estonians, Hungarians etc.).They have become European over the past 1000 years. And their nations are shaped according to all European principles and their culture is European.
They have become European.

[Æmeric]

It's not really fair to lump the Finns, Estonians & Hungarians together with Turks, Gypsies & Jews.

[Hors]

They have become European over the past 1000 years.

There are a lot of Jews and Turkics who have become European as well.


And their nations are shaped according to all European principles and their culture is European.
They have become European.

Will you accept France as a non-Muslim, but ethnically/racially ARABIC European nation? Or rather will you accept "civilized" Arabs as fellow European? As for me, I will not.

[Hors]

It's not really fair to lump the Finns, Estonians & Hungarians together with Turks, Gypsies & Jews.

The criterium was either the nation has its origins in Europe or outside.

[The Lawspeaker]

There are a lot of Jews and Turkics who have become European as well.
Wrong. They always held their loyalties to their own and did not consider themselves as part of the wider European family nor of the people between which they were living.




Will you accept France as a non-Muslim, but ethnically/racially ARABIC European nation? Or rather will you accept "civilized" Arabs as fellow European? As for me, I will not.
You know as well as I do that you talk rubbish. For a start "civilized" and Arab are an oxymoron- plus they are very recent invaders. And the French themselves are Europeans.

[Æmeric]

The criterium was either the nation has its origins in Europe or outside.Define Europe. It is more of a cultural rather then geographical phrase. Some people don't consider Russia to be Europe.

[The Lawspeaker]

Define Europe. It is more of a cultural rather then geographical phrase. Some people don't consider Russia to be Europe.
I am one of those people. I was in doubt about it but thanks to Hors I don't think anymore that Russians are European.

They might be racially European- but culturally.. I doubt it. They tend to have ideas that are completely alien to the European mind. Whereas the Finns, Estonians and Hungarians may have Asian origins (which is barely noticeable) but are European in culture.

[Hors]

Wrong. They always held their loyalties to their own and did not consider themselves as part of the wider European family nor of the people between which they were living.

Some of them did. A lot of them, actually.

I'm not talking about the Orthodox ones, of course.


You know as well as I do that you talk rubbish. For a start "civilized" and Arab are an oxymoron- plus they are very recent invaders. And the French themselves are Europeans.

Arabs had superior culture 1000 years ago.

And, yes, they're recent newcomers, that's why they're not on the poll, but in several centuries they will stop being recent and a lot of them will turn European, like Jews or Estonians. At least one state will be pred. Arabic, that's France, of course.

And then you will accept them as fellow Europeans, going by your statements...

[Nationalitist]

They should be offered one-way ticket to America, multicultural paradise.

[Hors]

Define Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe


It is more of a cultural rather then geographical phrase.

Your opinion.


Some people don't consider Russia to be Europe.

Russians are neither aware of such people nor would care if they were aware.

[Nationalitist]

It's not really fair to lump the Finns, Estonians & Hungarians together with Turks, Gypsies & Jews.

Hungarians are to Pannonia what Turks are to Balkans. Their asiatic character is alien to Europe

[The Lawspeaker]

Arabs had superior culture 1000 years ago.
Yes.. 1000 years ago.


And, yes, they're recent newcomers, that's why they're not on the poll, but in several centuries they will stop being recent and a lot of them will turn European, like Jews or Estonians.
Estonians hold a loyalty towards their European neighbors. If they should have been kicked out they should have been kicked out when they turned up. It didn't happen.


At least one state will be pred. Arabic, that's France, of course.
Don't sell the pelt until you have shot the bear. I know you would love to see France Arab and Europe taken over by the Russians and the Arabs.



And then you will accept them as fellow Europeans, going by your statements...
Well. I don't accept them as such and I rather kick the Arabs out now then to see someone accept them as Europeans in the year 3000.

[Æmeric]

They should be offered one-way ticket to America, multicultural paradise.

:ban?

[Hors]

They should be offered one-way ticket to America, multicultural paradise.

Good idea. That's option 1, btw. :thumb001:

[Hors]

Estonians hold a loyalty towards their European neighbors.

That's when they cooperated with the Judeo-Bolshevik teror regime? You know, they were the first ones to recognize it a s a legal entity.

If it's loyalty towards fellow Europeans..........



If they should have been kicked out they should have been kicked out when they turned up. It didn't happen.

I don't think we should fix any limits when it comes to it.



Don't sell the pelt until you have shot the bear. I know you would love to see France Arab and Europe taken over by the Russians and the Arabs.

You know little, if anything, as I have already noted from your uneducated entries...


Well. I don't accept them as such and I rather kick the Arabs out now then to see someone accept them as Europeans in the year 3000.

It's not too late to kick out every non-European group NOW.

[Jimbo Gomez]

Hungarians are to Pannonia what Turks are to Balkans. Their asiatic character is alien to Europe

Have you ever been there?

[Nationalitist]

I've been to Judapest 3 times already.

[Jimbo Gomez]

I've been to Judapest 3 times already.

Think away those gypsy bastards, who can be found all over Europe nowadays anyway, and you have a 100% European city. No desert dwellers or negroes anywhere.

[Nationalitist]

No, there are only Hungarians, Jews, Gypsies and Zeropean tourists. Hardly any Europeans.

[Poltergeist]

Who is according to you "Zeropean"?

[Nationalitist]

Lawspeaker for example.

[Nationalitist]

Zeropean = Americanized European, liberal, anti-national, supporter of EU-rocracy, euro-mondialism etc.

[The Lawspeaker]

Lawspeaker for example.
Says the guy portraying like a goddamn Chicano. Piss off. :coffee:

[Nationalitist]

My profile is a joke. Anyway, what's wrong with Mexicans? Cristeros are cool. My ancestors prayed for their Christian brothers in Mexico who were victims of anti-Catholic agression.

Another proof that you're a westernist and chauvinist.

[The Lawspeaker]

My profile is a joke. Anyway, what's wrong with Mexicans? Cristeros are cool. My ancestors prayed for their Christian brothers in Mexico who were victims of anti-Catholic agression.

Another proof that you're a westernist and chauvinist.
Mmm.. I don't even know whether anything that you write is true anyways as you are a troll.
I don't need to prove myself. My profile says enough. And other then you do I know what I am.

En doe mij verder een groot plezier- en sodemieter een eind op en neem je onzin mee.

[Hors]

Lawspeaker for example.


Zeropean = Americanized European, liberal, anti-national, supporter of EU-rocracy, euro-mondialism etc.

LOL

Bingo!

+1

[The Lawspeaker]

LOL

Bingo!

+1
Says the other White Asian on this board. ;)

Ook lekker opsouten !

[Hors]

They might be racially European- but culturally.. I doubt it. They tend to have ideas that are completely alien to the European mind.

Such as?

[The Lawspeaker]

Such as?
You know your own Asian culture better then we do. The insane power of both political extremes, your insane corruption, your maffia, your different religious ideas, the widespread superstition in your society, your imperialism towards smaller neighbors, your dislike of cooperating with others if you can rule over them instead.

[Hors]

You know your own culture better then we do.

Much better.


The insane power of both political extremes,


Worse than in Nazi Germany?


your insane corruption, your maffia,


Worse than in Italy? Or the USA in 30s?

And, btw, the maffia is not "our"


your different religious ideas,

What ideas? Russians are fairly homogenous when it comes to religion.


the widespread superstition in your society,

BS


your imperialism towards smaller neighbors,

You just miserably failed to prove our "imperialism" in Estonia, Mr. Zeropean...


your dislike of cooperating with others if you can rule over them instead.

Any examples?

[The Lawspeaker]

Seriously. Here we go: what about Russia's geopolitical games ? Ukraine ? Estonia ? Finland 1939. Poland 1939. Afghanistan 1979-1988 ? A bit like America but worse.

And yes. Russia is far worse even then the Weimar Republic (after the take-over there was only one insane party left). I think that you know about your own "nutzi" and commie problem. I am too lazy to look it up for you now on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWZ8hBWNHKs&feature=channel) but you know the problem better then I do. A good thing that they act against immigrants but they themselves are sometimes even worse. Just beating up random people on the street. Incredible. Huns.

Superstition in Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_traditions_and_superstitions) ? Trust me- if Russia would be European it would be the only European country renowned for it. And that coupled with your alcohol abuse which is far worse then the alcohol problems in other parts of Europe.

Your Russian mafia is Russian (I wouldn't actually be too surprised if they were supported by the Russian government). And you know that as well as I do. Those are the people that plague the Baltic and Germany with more violence then the Cosa Nostra ever did. And they were bad enough.

Well, mister Zeuropean, I think that it is safe to conclude that Russia, apart from her race (also questionable) and her language is not European.

[RoyBatty]

Lawspeaker, pretty much everything you're accusing Russia of applies to the EU & USA as well. It's pointless. :)

[RoyBatty]

Seriously. Here we go: what about Russia's geopolitical games ? Ukraine ? Estonia ? Finland 1939. Poland 1939. Afghanistan 1979-1988 ? A bit like America but worse.


The same applies to Europe. Colonialism, Imperialism, the EU.....



And yes. Russia is far worse even then the Weimar Republic (after the take-over there was only one insane party left). I think that you know about your own "nutzi" problem. I am too lazy to look it up for you now on youtube but you know the problem better then I do.


I didn't think it was so insane when I was there and I've been there a number of times.



Superstition in Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_traditions_and_superstitions) ? Trust me- if Russia would be European it would be the only European country renowned for it.


Russia is the only country in Europe where there are traditions and some people have superstitions? :confused:



And that coupled with your alcohol abuse which is far worse then the alcohol problems in other parts of Europe.


Ever heard of Finland or Sweden, to give 2 examples?



Your Russian mafia is Russian (I wouldn't actually be too surprised if they were supported by the Russian government).


"Russian Mafia".... errrr... have you bothered to look into the ethnicity of most of the oligarchs, ie, the bigggg bosses? How many of the smaller operators are from the Soviet Union as opposed to being ethnic Russians?



And you know that as well as I do. Those are the people that plague the Baltic and Germany with more violence then the Cosa Nostra ever did. And they were bad enough.


The Cosa Nostra is Italian and don't afaik operate much in the Baltics or Germany. German violence is mostly instigated by football hools and leftwing "anti-fascist" groups. The Baltics generally don't have problems with violence apart from some recent Nazi provocations which descended into a melee.



Well, mister Zeuropean, I think that it is safe to conclude that Russia, apart from her race (also questionable) and her language is not European.

The language has the same origins as many other Indo-European languages. Many words are Indo-European. The grammatical structure isn't all that different. The alphabet is virtually identical to the Latin one. I don't understand how you can draw such conclusions.

[Hors]

Lawspeaker, pretty much everything you're accusing Russia of applies to the EU & USA as well. It's pointless. :)

He's too uneducated and... simple to realize it, unfortunately :)

[Hors]

Seriously. Here we go: what about Russia's geopolitical games ? Ukraine ? Estonia ? Finland 1939. Poland 1939. Afghanistan 1979-1988 ? A bit like America but worse.

Are geo-political games un-European? So you don't consider Britain, France, Spain, Germany etc. as European countries? :D


And yes. Russia is far worse even then the Weimar Republic (after the take-over there was only one insane party left).

The question was about Nazi Germany.



Superstition in Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_traditions_and_superstitions) ? Trust me- if Russia would be European it would be the only European country renowned for it. .

Mostly rural. Anyway, what's wrong with these vestiges of paganism?


And that coupled with your alcohol abuse which is far worse then the alcohol problems in other parts of Europe

A lot of alcohol is consumed in many European countries.




Your Russian mafia is Russian (I wouldn't actually be too surprised if they were supported by the Russian government). And you know that as well as I do. Those are the people that plague the Baltic and Germany with more violence then the Cosa Nostra ever did. And they were bad enough.

Here's the list of maffia bosses

http://www.compromat.ru/page_24580.htm

Less than 10% are Russian


Well, mister Zeuropean, I think that it is safe to conclude that Russia, apart from her race (also questionable) and her language is not European.

Safe... for a Zeropean :D

[Beorn]

Jews

Religious Jews? Converted Jews? Non-religious Jews? Half-Jews? Quarter-Jews?


Gypsies

Which ones?


Turkics (Tatars, Turks)

How much "European blood" do they have in them?


Finnics (Finns, Estonians, Hungarians etc.)

Certainly.

[Hors]

Religious Jews? Converted Jews? Non-religious Jews? Half-Jews? Quarter-Jews?

All except the former


Which ones?

Romanian and Hungarian?


How much "European blood" do they have in them?

Volga Tatars are 80-100% European. Crimean Tatars are 95-100% European. Caucasian Tatars almost all are 100% European. European = European genes.


Certainly.

No half-measures...

[Ankoù]

There are a lot of peoples in Europe who are racially Europid but have non-European origin. They reside here for centuries and even milleniums and their non-European past is largely forgotten/unknown.

I'm talking about Jews, Gypsies, Turkics (Tatars, Turks), Finnics (Finns, Estonians, Hungarians etc.).

Russia is geographically eurasiatic and according to anthropology there are mongoloid influence in Russian people.
Why so restrictive ? :wink

[Phlegethon]

For a start "civilized" and Arab are an oxymoron


Without Arabs you would not have coffee, tea or numbers. ;)

[Hors]

... and hashish, the Dutch culture would be completely different without it :D

[Hors]

Russia is geographically eurasiatic

So what?


and according to anthropology there are mongoloid influence in Russian people.

What anthropology?


Why so restrictive ?

Okey. What is your ethnicity? ;)

[Ankoù]

So what?

What anthropology?

From that I know, part of Russians are East-Baltid and East-Baltid are partially lappoid.


Okey. What is your ethnicity? ;)

Breton. You hardly will find Moor, Hun, Turk or Mongol influences there.
Anyway, if you are restrictive about Finnics, is it not about historical troubles between these nations and Russia ?

[Hors]

From that I know, part of Russians are East-Baltid and East-Baltid are partially lappoid.

A very small part of Russians belongs to the East-Baltid race... that's several fringe groups in the Russian North, in the contact zone with local Finnics. They're assimilated Finnics actually.


Breton. You hardly will find Moor, Hun, Turk or Mongol influences there.

What is about Phoenicians? And Negroes made it even to England, FYI.


Anyway, if you are restrictive about Finnics, is it not about historical troubles between these nations and Russia ?

I'm not restrictive about Finnics. Their original homeland is on the other side of the Urals mountains, i.e. outside Europe.

[Nodens]

Their original homeland is on the other side of the Urals mountains, i.e. outside Europe.

If you really want to go that route, no Indo-European group has any claim to land west of the Dnieper.

[Ankoù]

What is about Phoenicians?

How many were they in Atlantic coast ?
Is it comparable to Mongoloids who always have been in contact with Russia during centuries ?


And Negroes made it even to England, FYI.

You confound England and Brittany. Anyway, except hypocrital leftists, nobody see mullatos as Bretons.


I'm not restrictive about Finnics. Their original homeland is on the other side of the Urals mountains, i.e. outside Europe.

Original homeland of Slavics is not Russia.

[Luern]

We also owe much to the Jews, our myths and our History (I mean, the books).

[Poltergeist]

Everything that doesn't belong to the genetic Europe should be thrown out of Europe. Though I am not sure about Finns and Hungarians, that they are non-European: some more detailed genetic testing should be done and then decision on their status brought.

Any culture and religion and anything similar that hasn't its origin in Europe, whose founders were not blond Germanics/Celts/Slavs etc., has to be discarded. Europeans should practice only pure European culture.

[ikki]

im pretty sure the newcomer list is the other way around... finns being one of the original populations. And with those indo-immigrants coming, decided to move onward from those noisy people... until ending up so far north the indos didnt feel like coming there.

[ikki]

Ever heard of Finland or Sweden, to give 2 examples?


Try looking up the newest european statistics, and you will find finland at the very bottom of "alcohol consumed divided by population, expressed as 100% proof" of the european countries.

There was a new one done a month ago or so. Obviously our own totalitarians were less than thrilled, as it made the impression there had been some progress :wink

[Loki]

It's pretty pointless to speculate on "what should be done" with people against their wishes. We're no longer living in the forties. Not even the Muslims would be willing to relocate, what of established nations? Wishful thinking you'll only find on the internet. But entertaining, nonetheless. :coffee:

[Amarantine]

Preferably to Israel.

Out (I don't care where)

Out (The Turks to Turkey minus Asia Minor and Constitanople and the Tatars to Tatarstan)

They have become European over the past 1000 years. And their nations are shaped according to all European principles and their culture is European.
They have become European.


Why should anything be done about the Finns, Estonians or Hungarians? They are European & have their own nation states. The Turks have Turkey - just repatriate the one already in Europe. The Tatars have Tatarstan in Russia. The Jews can go to Palestine (though I prefer the Madagascan Plan) & the Gypsies to India.

hm gas chambers?

@Lawspeaker> Gypsies in Neitherland, Marat Safin in Montenegro, others I'll let you distributes as you wish.

[Beorn]

.....

In all honesty Hors I would keep the ones that can assimilate into my country and remove the ones that can't. As Loki said, we as Europeans will never have episodes of genocide in Western Europe again, the regulatory bodies set up after the Second World War put paid to that.

I'm happy in returning to the pre-50s England. Blacks, Jews, Asians, warts and all. It was the vast amount of immigrants enforced en masse into the country that I object to and the crushing of the native ethnic English identity and culture that irks me the most.

[Hors]

If you really want to go that route, no Indo-European group has any claim to land west of the Dnieper.

Fine with me... :)

[Hors]

How many were they in Atlantic coast ?

You live there, not me


Is it comparable to Mongoloids who always have been in contact with Russia during centuries ?

Russia is a (vast) country, and not an ethnic or racial group, FYI.



You confound England and Brittany. Anyway, except hypocrital leftists, nobody see mullatos as Bretons.

I don't. It should have been harder fro Negroes to make it to Britain than to Brittany, yet it is known for sure that they've reached the former.

French samples also show not so negligible percentage of Negro genes... as well as Mongoloid. Don't know about such a bear corner as Brittany thou...


Original homeland of Slavics is not Russia.

Slavs come comes from the post-Zarubinetz culture. Check the map for the location.

[Luern]

French samples also show not so negligible percentage of Negro genes... as well as Mongoloid. Don't know about such a bear corner as Brittany thou...

But he is NOT French, he is Breton, don't you understand. :D

[Hors]

It's pretty pointless to speculate on "what should be done" with people against their wishes. We're no longer living in the forties. Not even the Muslims would be willing to relocate, what of established nations? Wishful thinking you'll only find on the internet. But entertaining, nonetheless. :coffee:

Only several years ago Muslim Turks-Meskhetians were kicked out from Southern Russia to that filthy racial cesspool... I'm talking about the US, of course.

As the absolute majority of Russians I see no problem with relocation, say, of Estonians... for example, to Inner Mongolia. And we don't give a fuck to what Zeropeans may say (oh hello Lawspeaker!).

And a lot of people know we're serious... that's why Estonians, Ukrainians, Georgians and other lowly creatures shriek in trepidation when Russia frowns at them...

[Hors]

But he is NOT French, he is Breton, don't you understand. :D

I should have said samples from France...

[Hrolf Kraki]

I really don't have any problem with Jews and certainly not Finnics. The Gypsies and especially the Turks can get the hell out though.

[Finsterer Streiter]

Remove Jews, Turkics and Gypsies from Europe. In case of need at gunpoint.
Remove those who wanna remove Finnics from Europe.

[Æmeric]

It's pretty pointless to speculate on "what should be done" with people against their wishes. We're no longer living in the forties. Not even the Muslims would be willing to relocate, what of established nations? Wishful thinking you'll only find on the internet. But entertaining, nonetheless. :coffee:

In a liberal democracy it is wishful thinking. But the liberal democracies are desentegrating from the social chaos brought about by multiracial welfare states. Some day we will say "We are no longer living in the 00s when individual human rights were paramount." :coffee:

[Loki]

Some day we will say "We are no longer living in the 00s when individual human rights were paramount." :coffee:

God forbid.

[Atlas]

Jews and finns have been in Europe for hundred years, if not more... I have no problem with them in Europe... At least Jews have now a country, gypsies don't and probably will never have. And turks, to me they should stay in turkey.

[Tabiti]

Some Finno-Ugrian tribes are actually one of the first settlers of Europe :D

[Hors]

Some Finno-Ugrian tribes are actually one of the first settlers of Europe, LOL :D

Only according to some obscure FU sites run by Finnics fully aware of their Asiatic origins but acutely wanting to be accepted as Europeans...

[Tabiti]

I don't know any obscure FU sites run by Finnics.

The problem with turks is that they already have territory in Asia Minor since ages and are not like the ordinary homeless immigrants or gypsy nomads. As for the gypsies, where are you going to send them? I'm sure India DOESN'T want that tribes again. So, you see, "removing from Europe" is not so simple solution. On the other hand, gypsies appear in Europe mainly with the Ottomans, so they aren't so "new" actually. However, in the beginning they had really low social status as nomads with quite bad reputation and knew their place out of the normal local society.
I prefer not to mention the word "extermination" for these complicated cases;)

[Svarog]

Complete removal, if jews got their own country should have live there, gypsies also suffered in WWII, justice for them, give them half of Israel and move them there.

[Ankoù]

You live there, not me

It is you who said that. To me it's clearly not enough to make people think we are linked to them. ;)


Russia is a (vast) country, and not an ethnic or racial group, FYI.

I am aware about this and the mixing is more easy in a multiethnic and multiracial state.


I don't. It should have been harder fro Negroes to make it to Britain than to Brittany, yet it is known for sure that they've reached the former.

The fact to be more near to Africa does not change something today. I'm sure you will find more sub-saharians in Scandinavia than in Balkans.


French samples also show not so negligible percentage of Negro genes... as well as Mongoloid. Don't know about such a bear corner as Brittany thou...

Brittany and the west of France is considered as the part the most safe. But like I said nobody would see a mullato as Breton, rather as a French citizen.


Slavs come comes from the post-Zarubinetz culture. Check the map for the location.

Which map ?

[Jägerstaffel]

Hey, now.
Don't bash Finns.

[Murphy]

Jews

There has been Jewish minorities in almost every Jewish nation for centuries. Most are generally not well off and they have always, always maintained their separate identity except for the odd eccentric amongst them. I would say it would be best for them to leave for Israel (though Israel in my ideal is not the contemparary Israeli state).


Gypsies

Gypsies have been present in Eastern Europe for a long, long time as well. In my opinion, what is needed is stricter laws and stricter control over borders. The majority of the gypsies in the West of Europe should be deported back East where they came from as they are an alien element for the most part in the West.

I would say countries like Hungary have to accept that they play host to a Gypsie minority that has been there for centuries. Laws should be enforced to contain the underbelly side of Gypsie culture of course and all-in-all I think that they could co-exist peacefully.


Turkics (Tatars, Turks)

Most are immigrants. I would say repatriation.


Finnics (Finns, Estonians, Hungarians etc.).

I would count Finns amongst my fellow Europeans long before I would count Russians. So watch where you tread.

Regards,
Eóin.

What should be done about them?[/QUOTE]

[Aemma]

You know I'm reading this thread and scratching my head at the very notion that some would suggest that people "be moved" to other locations. Where exactly do you think these groups of people should be moved to? Mars? The International Space Station???

I think that this type of thinking is totally unrealistic and well, quite frankly, preposterous really. Peoples (as in herds of people, communities, whatever you would like to call it) have been moving around this great big planet of ours forever. It's what we do as members of the animal kingdom. Human beings go as the resources go. Need food? We move to where there's food. Need to grow food? We move to where we can grow our food. Need work to buy food? We move to where we can get employment so we can buy our food. Well you get the picture...different variables, same formula.

Tensions arise of course when said resources become scarce and invariably they will at one point or another, no matter how much human ingenuity thinks it can solve all of the world's problems. Yes there is more than one solution to each and every problem in life but oftentimes some solutions are just downright ridiculous (the "Final" one coming to mind here). And I'm sorry but this notion of carting people off elsewhere (wherever this blessed 'elsewhere' may be) is just plain moronic. We're well past the ideology of final solutions and internment camps and such horrendous nonsense. And all I have to say is thank the gods for that.

[sturmwalkure]

Finnics (Finns, Estonians, Hungarians etc.) are fine where they are. It's the Negroids etc that need to be given the boot. If it's impossible to deport them all, then Apartheid and segregation would be necessary to implement.

[anonymaus]

Offer them a free one way ticket to Canada and a piece of land along the 60th parallel?

[Hors]

You know I'm reading this thread and scratching my head at the very notion that some would suggest that people "be moved" to other locations. Where exactly do you think these groups of people should be moved to? Mars? The International Space Station???

I think that this type of thinking is totally unrealistic and well, quite frankly, preposterous really.

FYI
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8248

[Hors]

Finnics (Finns, Estonians, Hungarians etc.) are fine where they are.

First of all, they aren't fine.
Second, the same principle could be applied to "fine" Turks, Arabs, Hindus etc. Either we have the objective criterium or not. If it's the latter the strife between Europeans is unavoidable.

[Poltergeist]

Europe has been a continent of strife for quite a long time.

[Æmeric]

You know I'm reading this thread and scratching my head at the very notion that some would suggest that people "be moved" to other locations. Where exactly do you think these groups of people should be moved to? Mars? The International Space Station???

I think that this type of thinking is totally unrealistic and well, quite frankly, preposterous really. Peoples (as in herds of people, communities, whatever you would like to call it) have been moving around this great big planet of ours forever. It's what we do as members of the animal kingdom. Human beings go as the resources go. Need food? We move to where there's food. Need to grow food? We move to where we can grow our food. Need work to buy food? We move to where we can get employment so we can buy our food. Well you get the picture...different variables, same formula.

Tensions arise of course when said resources become scarce and invariably they will at one point or another, no matter how much human ingenuity thinks it can solve all of the world's problems. Yes there is more than one solution to each and every problem in life but oftentimes some solutions are just downright ridiculous (the "Final" one coming to mind here). And I'm sorry but this notion of carting people off elsewhere (wherever this blessed 'elsewhere' may be) is just plain moronic. We're well past the ideology of final solutions and internment camps and such horrendous nonsense. And all I have to say is thank the gods for that.

:rolleyes:

Canada has a large population of "visible minorities", East Asians, South Asians, Middle Easterners, Africans & Afro-Caribbeans. About 1 of 6 Canadians. These groups were virtually nonexistent when you were born Aemma. They are in Canada because your governement allows other countries to export their surpluss population to Canada. If people can be relocated to Canada why can't they be relocated out of Canada? Why is it that 21st century migration is only suppose to work one-way, from the third world to the first?

[Aemma]

FYI
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8248


Alright I read your FYI. Thank you. But you know I was being facetious about Mars and the International Space Station. :) Sure resettlements occur and granted some may be successful (and I can't highlight the some part enough). If your own country struck an amiable deal with another to resettle another group, well and good on both of you, IF and only if all parties concerned were in agreement and it is a good deal for EVERYBODY. (Having said this there is the tendency towards NIMBYism everywhere of course and I don't have any good sense as to how this particular case you cite has played out in this regard.)

But in the main, what I do object to however in these types of discussions is the cavalier way in which some people tend to say in not so many words: "Got a problem with some people? Send them packing!" I can't help but scratch my head and ask where to most times?

[anonymaus]

:rolleyes:

Canada has a large population of "visible minorities", East Asians, South Asians, Middle Easterners, Africans & Afro-Caribbeans. About 1 of 6 Canadians. These groups were virtually nonexistent when you were born Aemma. They are in Canada because your governement allows other countries to export their surpluss population to Canada. If people can be relocated to Canada why can't they be relocated out of Canada? Why is it that 21st century migration is only suppose to work one-way, from the third world to the first?

I actually feel differently about Canada (and the US) in that this is not our native land and, though we did conquer and settle it, I'm comfortable with it being "the new world" and treating it differently from our ancestral lands. I'm for extremely high standards of immigration over here, but not ethno-cultural ones: that makes sense to me only in places where a properly native ethnicity exists, or a commonly accepted nationality/culture would be upset by mass non-native immigration.

In other words the delta is always dirty, we're better off focusing on keeping the river and its source clean.

[Loki]

... that makes sense to me only in places where a properly native ethnicity exists, or a commonly accepted nationality/culture would be upset by mass non-native immigration.


Indeed, and for this reason, Native Americans will always have my sympathy and support in the Americas -- it's their ancestral and spiritual land. They should be respected in every sense, and given more rights than others who have come after them.

[Gooding]

All right. I think we should just let nature take its course and assimilate them into the societies in which they've moved. Europe, Asia and the Americas have been dealing with nomadic groups since the very beginning and yet the physical characteristics of the Native inhabitants have remained with very little physical alteration. It might take a couple of hundred years, as with the Saxons and the Normans to mesh into a single people, together with the Celts and the Palaeolithic inhabitants of Britain who'd been in the land centuries longer, but the basic phenotypes always remain.The best defense against outright conquest is to reverse our breeding habits and have several children per couple, as I'm trying to talk my wife into letting us do after our financial conditions improve.

[Aemma]

:rolleyes:

Canada has a large population of "visible minorities", East Asians, South Asians, Middle Easterners, Africans & Afro-Caribbeans. About 1 of 6 Canadians. These groups were virtually nonexistent when you were born Aemma. They are in Canada because your governement allows other countries to export their surpluss population to Canada. If people can be relocated to Canada why can't they be relocated out of Canada? Why is it that 21st century migration is only suppose to work one-way, from the third world to the first?

:) I understand what you're saying Aemeric and yes you're very correct in what you say about Canada. I just don't think that people can just cavalierly say "Send people packing!" The issues are systemic and much deeper than we all care to know about, having to do with political economies, globalisation and a whole slew of other things that your average human being really doesn't know or really, and more correctly perhaps, doesn't care to know about. Issues of immigration are much more complex than simply looking at things linearly as in surplus population in country "X" >>> move this surplus to Canada. We've asked the "developing" world to develop and I can't help but think "should we not have left well enough alone already?" Do we really need another Chinese person to be painting a face on a Mattel product so that our WalMart shelves can be fully stocked in time for the Christmas rush?

It's a very complex issue as you know Aemeric. And I typically stay out of these discussions precisely because they are so complex and need careful consideration. It's the cavalier attitude towards so-called solutions to man-made problems that I take exception to in the end.

[Æmeric]

I actually feel differently about Canada (and the US) in that this is not our native land and, though we did conquer and settle it, I'm comfortable with it being "the new world" and treating it differently from our ancestral lands. I'm for extremely high standards of immigration over here, but not ethno-cultural ones: that makes sense to me only in places where a properly native ethnicity exists, or a commonly accepted nationality/culture would be upset by mass non-native immigration.

In other words the delta is always dirty, we're better off focusing on keeping the river and its source clean.:rolleyes2:

So in otherwords we should just hand over America to the Hispanics & Canada to the Asians, because we (the Northwestern Europeans) took it unjustly from the Indians?:tsk:


Indeed, and for this reason, Native Americans will always have my sympathy and support in the Americas -- it's their ancestral and spiritual land. They should be respected in every sense, and given more rights than others who have come after them.

And how do you feel about the rights of the Zulus, Sothos & Xhosas versus the Afrikaners?

When discussing ancestoral rights of Amerindians it is important to remember that they did not respect the ancestoral rights of other tribes to land. The pre-Columbian history of America is one constant warfare between tribes with various tribes being wipeout & displace by other tribes. It was only the reservation system & the wardship of the US government that has given them stability.

[Loki]

And how do you feel about the rights of the Zulus, Sothos & Xhosas versus the Afrikaners?


The same, basically. The main difference, though, is that they are not small in number and threatened with extinction like the native North Americans -- we Afrikaners did not slaughter them wholesale like you guys. ;)



When discussing ancestoral rights of Amerindians it is important to remember that they did not respect the ancestoral rights of other tribes to land. The pre-Columbian history of America is one constant warfare between tribes with various tribes being wipeout & displace by other tribes.

Same can be said of Europeans. They've constantly been in warfare with each other, in horrific slaughters, until 1945.

[Æmeric]

The same, basically. The main difference, though, is that they are not small in number and threatened with extinction like the native North Americans -- we Afrikaners did not slaughter them wholesale like you guys. ;)



We didn't slaughter them. They died off because they had no immunity to diseases like chickenpox. And besides there are more Indians in the US to today, nearly 3 million, then there was when the Englsih settled Jamestown, about 1 million.

As for the the Afrikaners not slaughtering the Bantus wholesale, what you did was worst. You created conditions that allowed them to procreate like rabbits, just for the sake of cheap labor.:(

[Loki]

As for the the Afrikaners not slaughtering the Bantus wholesale, what you did was worst. You created conditions that allowed them to procreate like rabbits, just for the sake of cheap labor.:(

At least we paid them a pittance for their labour, and did not keep them as slaves like you guys (except for the very early colonial days).

[anonymaus]

:rolleyes2:

So in otherwords we should just hand over America to the Hispanics & Canada to the Asians, because we (the Northwestern Europeans) took it unjustly from the Indians?:tsk:

There appears to be some intellectual interference between my location and Planet Redneck. Please hang up and try your call again.

[Gooding]

The same, basically. The main difference, though, is that they are not small in number and threatened with extinction like the native North Americans -- we Afrikaners did not slaughter them wholesale like you guys. ;)

There were more of us and the overpopulation rampant in Europe at the time, plus the lack of opportunities for upward mobility except in the military, pushed us to this continent. Is it just to judge the conditions of the mid 1600s to the nineteenth century by the standards of 2009? There was a struggle for land and the Indians were scarcely the innocent lambs the media paints them up to be today. We had superior weapons, we used cunning, we won, they lost. Not to ignore the atrocities on our side, but they managed to wipe out Colonial settlements, too. King Philip's War and the settlement at Roanoke come to mind as immediate examples.




Same can be said of Europeans. They've constantly been in warfare with each other, in horrific slaughters, until 1945.

It seems endemic in human nature to create and prosecute an enemy. Enemies are easy abstractions for us to vent against.

[Æmeric]

At least we paid them a pittance for their labour, and did not keep them as slaves like you guys (except for the very early colonial days).Kept them as slaves? On the contrary, Any Indians kept as slaves in early America were likely to come from the Spanish realm of America. Those Indians in what is now the US were not considered good slaves. Mainly because if they spent to much time around Europeans they got sick & died. Whites were more likely to be slaves of the Indians then Indians were to be slaves of the Whites. One of my ancestors was captured as a young boy & held for nearly 20-years before he was ransomed.

Anglo-Americans did not use Indian labor. The Indians were kept seperated on their reservations. Unlike the Afrikaners who like to have the Bantus nearby so they could perform the most menial tasks for a pittance.

[Absinthe]

Why can't we all just get along? ;)

http://deadon.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/group-hug.jpg

[Æmeric]

There appears to be some intellectual interference between my location and Planet Redneck. Please hang up and try your call again.
Clean the wax out of your ears & answer the question. Is third world migration to North America justified because we Nordish Europeans "stole it" from the Indians.

Btw, were the Sibero-Indians really the first inhabitants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennewick_Man) of America?

Why can't we all just get along? ;)

http://deadon.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/group-hug.jpg

No, not as long as some people question the legal & moral right of my family to our country.:disapproving

[Aemma]

Why can't we all just get along? ;)

http://deadon.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/group-hug.jpg

:D :thumb001:

[Absinthe]

No, not as long as some people question the legal & moral right of my family to my country.:disapproving

I was addressing the thread question, I only read the first page and I hadn't even gotten to that part where you defend your country... :p

[anonymaus]

Clean the wax out of your ears & answer the question. Is third world migration to North America justified because we Nordish Europeans "stole it" from the Indians.

I could similarly ask you if you feel we should replace all the world's trees with purple broccoflowers and change our electoral system to one based on who can eat the most hot dogs in five minutes.

[Æmeric]

I was addressing the thread question, I only read the first page and I hadn't even gotten to that part where you defend your country... :pThen you missed the part where some people make an exception for America & Canada when it comes to third world immigration on moral grounds & respect for Amerindians.

[Hors]

Alright I read your FYI. Thank you. But you know I was being facetious about Mars and the International Space Station. :) Sure resettlements occur and granted some may be successful (and I can't highlight the some part enough). If your own country struck an amiable deal with another to resettle another group, well and good on both of you, IF and only if all parties concerned were in agreement and it is a good deal for EVERYBODY.

The Meskhetian Turks were indignant, far from being happy. They were ousted virtually at the gun point.


But in the main, what I do object to however in these types of discussions is the cavalier way in which some people tend to say in not so many words: "Got a problem with some people? Send them packing!" I can't help but scratch my head and ask where to most times?

Immense expanses of polar Siberia or Inner Mongolia could accomodate every ethnicity Russians may keep in mind, even fifty times that amount.

Trust me, Russians have got vast experience in dealing with impertinent brats. Why do you think local Baltics go nuts every time any hint of retribution for their Russophobia arise? :)

[Hors]

We didn't slaughter them. They died off because they had no immunity to diseases like chickenpox.

I gather Americans can boast of the first case of usage of biological weapons (contaminated blankets sent to unsuspected Indians who previously saved the colonists from starvation).

[anonymaus]

I gather Americans can boast of the first case of usage of biological weapons (contaminated blankets sent to unsuspected Indians who previously saved the colonists from starvation).

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1088/did-whites-ever-give-native-americans-blankets-infected-with-smallpox

Not that you're likely to believe anything inconvenient to your worldview.

[Hors]

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1088/did-whites-ever-give-native-americans-blankets-infected-with-smallpox

Not that you're likely to believe anything inconvenient to your worldview.

And Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it was just a terrible accident in Japanese nuclear laboratories, right?

[anonymaus]

And Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it was just a terrible accident in Japanese nuclear laboratories, right?

http://macrochan.org/images/Q/G/QGMARPLN357Q6KF5LL3D72CL6ZYQL3AG.jpeg

[Hrolf Kraki]

http://macrochan.org/images/Q/G/QGMARPLN357Q6KF5LL3D72CL6ZYQL3AG.jpeg

That bird is awesome. I want it.

[Hrolf Kraki]

We didn't slaughter them. They died off because they had no immunity to diseases like chickenpox. And besides there are more Indians in the US to today, nearly 3 million, then there was when the Englsih settled Jamestown, about 1 million.

As for the the Afrikaners not slaughtering the Bantus wholesale, what you did was worst. You created conditions that allowed them to procreate like rabbits, just for the sake of cheap labor.:(

The English may not have done the slaughtering, but we still unfortunately celebrate a holiday dedicated to the man that did. In fact, Christopher Columbus was responsible for the demise of the entire native population of...I believe, Haiti.

[Æmeric]

And just what did Columbus do to the Taino people, other then sneezing too close to them?:sick:

[Hrolf Kraki]

And just what did Columbus do to the Taino people, other then sneezing too close to them?:sick:

Killed many for gold and raped a lot of the women, eventually dying from gonorrhea years later.

[ikki]

Killed many for gold and raped a lot of the women, eventually dying from gonorrhea years later.

the indians had syphilis..

[Guapo]

Btw, were the Sibero-Indians really the first inhabitants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennewick_Man) of America?

Give him pigtails and a feather and he'll pass as Native.Those "Sibero-Indians" were/are Cromagnoid with convex noses(the most ancient form) anyway and "them bones" can easily pass as "Caucasoid" after being studied no problemo.


the indians had syphilis..

They were also allergic to led...bullets, whatever.

[F.M.S. Panzerfaust]

Finns are part of Europe, and their gene pool mixed with those of europeans. Certainly theres no need to get rid of them.

But, following your trolling, instead of sending them to Mongolia to work in mines, send them here to my country. We can make an exchange: I send you the negros, you send me the finns. Certainly theres plenty of land for them here, and I would love to welcome them - especially the women - with open arms.

[Lysander]

And how are Finns, Estonians and Hungarians not European?

You seem to have mixed Indo-European and European together. Educate yourself.

[Lutiferre]

Once again, Finnics are European.

As to the rest, the realistic answer of what will happen regardless of what we like, is a combination of all three options. Most will stay, assimilation will occur to some extent, though there may continue to be division, and others will leave.

[Absinthe]

Those "what should be done with" threads always crack me up. As if we make the decisions here :lol:

[Lutiferre]

Those "what should be done with" threads always crack me up. As if we make the decisions here :lol:

It's quite pointless, indeed.

[Vargtand]

It's quite pointless, indeed.

It is only pointless as long as we can not muster a couple of hundred of thousand people and start a lynch mob :P

[sturmwalkure]

As I suggested in another thread: if the Arabs, Negroes etc can't be kicked out of Europe, apartheid is the solution. Either that, or segregation, or both. Cut off all their benefits: their welfare, their health-care, their education. Fining their employers is another effective solution, also putting them in separate schools which they must fund themselves. Also, taking away their right to vote, and to hold public office.

Muslims shall be forced to wear the Islamic moon and star. Each Muslim family will also be forced to house a pig.

They'll also be confined to ghettos, with constant police control. If they get uppity, the police would use lethal force against them.

Non-white refugees should be kicked out without a question, and if they resist then lethal force should be used against them.

Non-whites in prison: they and their entire families should be deported. All their possessions will be confiscated by the host country and they'll be on a boat back to wherever they came from on a cargo ship.

Anti-miscegenation laws would be set in place: it'll be a jailable offense, if an indigenous European wants to marry a non-White he/she would have to give up their citizenship and go move to the country of origin of their spouse. If the non-White spouse has European citizenship, he/she would be stripped of it too.

Products of miscegenation could be sterilized and be allowed to function fairly normally in society, since they'll no longer be able to harm the gene-pool. If they don't want to be sterilized they can pick between living in the ghettos or repatriation to their non-European ancestral homeland.

If I had the power, this is what I would do. :thumbs up

[Absinthe]

Each Muslim family will also be forced to house a pig.

Are you serious? :D

[sturmwalkure]

Are you serious? :D

I am completely serious. :thumbs up

[The Lawspeaker]

Are you serious? :D
I like the idea :D

Added on top could be Wilders' proposal of taxing Muslim headscarfs and on top of it could be a zakat (Islamic tax of 10 percent) and of course the mandatory income tax and excise duties and VAT that we all have to pay anyways. ;)

[Absinthe]

I am completely serious. :thumbs up
So what would be the point of that (them housing a pig)? :icon_ask:

[The Lawspeaker]

So what would be the point of that (them housing a pig)? :icon_ask:
Making their life miserable. Which is an excellent of why we should do it.:D

[Absinthe]

Well I think that this suggestion is an excellent example of how a "minority" acquires public sympathy and uses the "victimization" card.

Many of El.'s suggestions where legit, but the pig thingy is downright ridiculous.

It is a Monty Python-esque kind of thing, and, if anything, it's going to lead to "help, help, we're being oppressed" kind of reactions.

Then the general public acquires sympathy for the "poor people", the Muslims become the new Jews, and the European nations that have implemented such silly measures become the next Nazis. :wink

[The Lawspeaker]

Well I think that this suggestion is an excellent example of how a "minority" acquires public sympathy and uses the "victimization" card.

Many of El.'s suggestions where legit, but the pig thingy is downright ridiculous.

It is a Monty Python-esque kind of thing, and, if anything, it's going to lead to "help, help, we're being oppressed" kind of reactions.

Then the general public acquires sympathy for the "poor people", the Muslims become the new Jews, and the European nations that have implemented such silly measures become the next Nazis. :wink
Then we should make sure that the left-wing press doesn't have presses anymore.
Anyways there isn't much of a chance that the Muslims will be seen as victims. They did too much damage and people would still remember it 30 years from now.

[Lysander]

Once again, Finnics are European.

As to the rest, the realistic answer of what will happen regardless of what we like, is a combination of all three options. Most will stay, assimilation will occur to some extent, though there may continue to be division, and others will leave.

Once again, yes they are. How did you reach the conclusion that they aren't? Because they aren't Indo-European? Again those are two entirely different things.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

I was in doubt about it but thanks to Hors I don't think anymore that Russians are European.

They might be racially European- but culturally.. I doubt it. They tend to have ideas that are completely alien to the European mind.

AMEN.

Horos and other Russofascist thinktanks are the product of a culture fairly effectively removed from European values.

This poll:
Finnics are one of the few people that can be considered indigenous to Europe, the north and northeast of Europe.

All genetic and archaeological evidences does not suggest anything but a presence since the Holocene and thats some fucking +8000 yrs ago.
That's when the Russoslavs ancestors straggled around in the Asian steppe....

[Hrafn]

Define Europe. It is more of a cultural rather then geographical phrase. Some people don't consider Russia to be Europe.

I don't have really nothing against Russia (it is there in Asia,and it is country i will never visit as well as most of the countries in Asia-i actually visited only India) but Russia isn't in Europe and it's not Europe. Russia is simply Russia.
When i recently left the Forum i left it to actually rethink about certain personal issues, since for some time people that i had believed had a real vision for a future Europe, turned out to be just fake people who are interested in their own selfish political agenda and not a zilch of any spirituality.
One of the the issues i have with them is constant and boringly repetitive blind servitude and obedience to Russians through their articles, websites and pamflets.

To be honest i know that Russians don't like people who exhibit such behaviour. They are like Serbs. They will rather respect tough enemy than an supposed ally who is actually a servile and cowardish bureaucrat with no spine at all.

Oh,yes and Finns (not Finnics) and Hungarians are part of Europe and always will be. What would you write then about Indo-Europeans ?
That word ''Indo'' in front of Europeans, where is that coming from ?
Turks and Roma/Gypsies are quite a different story.

That springs to my mind that recently i was really pleasantly surprised that people in country where i was born (Croatia) share same Haplogroup I with people of Scandinavia (Norway and Sweden). My family from both sides aren't Croatians (they are ethnic Germans from Schleswig-Holstein and Baden-Württemberg who came to Croatia at the beginning of 20th century, as well as some of family is originally from Denmark, and mothers side from Elsaß-Lothringen)but i grew up there.

[Hors]

Russia isn't in Europe and it's not Europe. Russia is simply Russia.

Frankly, I don't really care whether Russia is considered to be in Europe and/or a European country or not, but I'm curious what makes you think that Russia is on its own. More precisely, what does differentiate Russia from Europe or any given European country, in your opinion? Please substantiate your opinion with unambigious facts.

[Lutiferre]

Once again, yes they are. How did you reach the conclusion that they aren't? Because they aren't Indo-European? Again those are two entirely different things.
What? I said "Once again, Finnics are European", because the poll suggested that they aren't.

[Hrafn]

Frankly, I don't really care whether Russia is considered to be in Europe and/or a European country or not, but I'm curious what makes you think that Russia is on its own. More precisely, what does differentiate Russia from Europe or any given European country, in your opinion? Please substantiate your opinion with unambigious facts.

What do you mean that Russia is on its own ? What is it then ? Obviously it isn't CCCP anymore and it is on its own.
Russia still wants to be a recognized superpower on pair with USA while Europe doesn't have such goals.
What differentiates Russia from Europe is a culture, heritage, geographical position,then up until the end of 80es in 20th century it was part of superpower called CCCP,furthermore in Europe we don't live geographically so near Asia.


From Euroheritage website:

Brief Historical Background:

The modern Russian Federation -- still by far the largest nation on earth -- is one with a ruling Slavic elite and a broad array of far poorer, disenfranchised ethnic groups and cultures still living under Russian Slavic rule. After finally wresting themselves of Mongol and Muslim Tatar dominance by the 16th century, the next 400 years of Russian history would be one of expansion and conquest not seen since the life of Timur the Mujahid or Genghis Khan. Ivan the Great, Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Catherine the Great, and the Alexanders would lead the tiny state of Muscovy (Moscow) to rule the world's largest empire from the Baltic Sea all the way to Washington state and Alaska in the modern United States, and all the way south to northern Iran and Afghanistan. The Slavic, Orthodox Christian elite would gain authority over the millions of animist, Islamic, Buddhist, Mongol, Turkic, Iranian, and Finnish, and Inuit subjects they conquered. Ethnic tension and hatred was already intense, and the conquered non-Slavs saw no franchise nor protection as second-class citizens despite official efforts by the Russian government to promote a veneer of cultural autonomy and respect (especially Catherine, not even a Russian herself). The Russian empire at its height included (both before the Soviet Union and during) the modern nations of Georgia, Armenia, Muslim Azerbaijan, Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, eastern Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Finland (never part of USSR), Muslim Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Turkmenistan. This dominion remained during the Soviet Union period, where a move toward "Russification" initiated almost exclusively in reference to language under the guise of equality. Uzbeks, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Tajiks, and other Muslims in Russia use the Cyrillic alphabet instead of the Arabic script of their Islamic heritage. There was even a tiny state developed for the Jewish community in the desolate and freezing border with China and the Alaskan sea called the Jewish Autonomous Oblast, a home for Jews expelled by the Soviet Union to keep them from their inconvenient and disproportionate involvement in Communist activity.

With the collapse of the Soviet Union, the outer states -- ethnically Slavic, Mongol, and Turkic -- gained independence from Russian Slavic hegemony. But many non-Slavic, non-Russian ethnic groups remained under the political authority of the non-Communist Russian Federation of today. The primary reason was that the cultures today represented nominally in the "ethnic republics" of Russia failed to historically develop national consciousness, nationalism, or wherewithal, and Russia was able to hastily exert authority over the disparate tribes.

I didn't write that, it is obviously out on the internet.

[Poltergeist]

One of the the issues i have with them is constant and boringly repetitive blind servitude and obedience to Russians through their articles, websites and pamflets.
To be honest i know that Russians don't like people who exhibit such behaviour.

Who are you talking about? Apricity in general? Some particular people from Apricity? Some other website? Or some organizations of the euro-right?

[Hors]

That springs to mind that recently i was really pleasantly surprised that people in country where i was born (Croatia) share same Haplogroup I with people of Scandinavia (Norway and Sweden).

They don't.

[Hors]

What differentiates Russia from Europe is a culture, heritage, geographical position,

So you cannot be more specific? It's just words, empty words.


then up until the end of 80es in 20th century it was part of superpower called CCCP.

CCCP = Russia

[Hrafn]

They don't.

You against the science as it is, or is that ''everybody should be Slavic by default'' campaign ?

[Hrafn]

So you cannot be more specific? It's just words, empty words.



CCCP = Russia

I wrote enough i think. Please go back to my post and read it.

[Hors]

I wrote enough i think. Please go back to my post and read it.

You wrote nothing, you just copy-pasted a stupid text, absolutely irrelevant.


You against the science as it is, or is that ''everybody should be a Slavic by default campaign'' ?

You do not know what you're talking about. Croats are indeed are only partially Slavic genetically, but they're not Scandinavian either. Croats and Scandinavians have DIFFERENT I haplogroups. They're as different as R1 haplogroups in Basques and Poles.

[Brännvin]

That springs to mind that recently i was really pleasantly surprised that people in country where i was born (Croatia) share same Haplogroup I with people of Scandinavia (Norway and Sweden).

Geez :eek: Actually, it is not the same, the Scandinavian version is currently the subclade I1.


The most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of I1 lived from 4,000 to 6,000 years ago somewhere in the far northern part of Europe, perhaps Denmark, according to Nordtvedt.

Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I1_(Y-DNA)#Origins)

[Hrafn]

Who are you talking about? Apricity in general? Some particular people from Apricity? Some other website? Or some organizations of the euro-right?


Noooo. :)
Not in a slightest way about Apricity or anybody from Apricity.
Not even another Forum or website. Just my own spiritual search and groups i used to be interested in, or affiliated to some extent.

I just saw that you are Croatian.
Nitko s Apricity-ja. To je jedna grupa za koju sam vjerovao da je iskrena i da pripada Asatru vjeri. Nist' s nikim ovdje.
Pozdrav,
Hrafn

[Hrafn]

You wrote nothing, you just copy-pasted a stupid text, absolutely irrelevant.

What would you like me to write ? A disertation ? Perhaps i will, but not now.I have other things to do in my life at the moment. If you can't understand how that what i copy/pasted is relevant to our discussion what can i do ? Nothing.



You do not know what you're talking about. Croats are indeed are only partially Slavic genetically, but they're not Scandinavian either. Croats and Scandinavians have DIFFERENT I haplogroups. They're as different as R1 haplogroups in Basques and Poles.

Of course that Croatians are Slavic as well, i didn't say that they weren't.You are correct that they are only partially Slavic.

Regarding haplogroups.
Haplogroup I is native to the Middle East and Europe. It can be found in most European populations, most commonly in Scandinavia and Croatia.

Haplogroup I is a branch of haplogroup F*. According to current theories, Haplogroup I first arrived in Europe around 20,000-25,000 years ago from the Middle East. It is believed to be associated with the Gravettian culture.

The highest frequency of the I Haplogroup can be found in Scandinavian and Croatian populations. This lends support to the hypothesis that the Adriatic region of modern-day Croatia served as a refuge for northern populations during the last glacial maximum. The hypothesis states that after the LGM there was a migration from the north east by the people whose offspring today form a significant portion of the Scandinavian populations. These groups seem to be the ancestors of about 38% of modern day Croats (75% of Bosnian Croats).

There are also indications that this haplogroup is tied to the Celtic culture. The spread of the I group in western Europe could be consistent with the Celtic expansion that occurred in the mid-first millennium BC.

In north of Croatia we had indeed a Celtic culture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I_%28Y-DNA%29

Furthermore:
R1a Haplotype #27

The highest match frequency in the old world falls in Sweden, followed by additional matches in Croatia, the Czech Republic, and Indo-Pakistani samples. This haplotype is most likely of Norse Viking origin, but could conceivably have come to Britain with Gothic or Sarmatian troops.

Anyway, that is for now. I am anyway not Croatian myself (although i speak their language), so i recommend finding Croatian person who will talk with you about it.

[Brännvin]

Get it. The I1, actually common in Scandinavia is simply product of a mutation that occurred in a man who lived in Denmark around 4000 - 6000 years ago, so it's a different subclade of those I common in Balkans

[Hrafn]

Superstition in Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_traditions_and_superstitions) ? Trust me- if Russia would be European it would be the only European country renowned for it.

Serbia is one of them and it is widespread in Balkans as well.

[Hrafn]

Get it. The I1, actually common in Scandinavia is simply product of a mutation that occurred in a man who lived in Denmark around 4000 - 6000 years ago, so it's a different subclade of those I common in Balkans

Thank you for your opinion. I value that. I have mine though because i am an individual.

My favourite tv show of all time ''The Prisoner'':
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/29JewlGsYxs&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/29JewlGsYxs&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Hrafn]

And a lot of people know we're serious... that's why Estonians, Ukrainians, Georgians and other lowly creatures shriek in trepidation when Russia frowns at them...

That happens after how many bottles of undistilled vodka which was high in methanol ?
Usually you can't see so good after drinking that kind of stuff.

[Osweo]

Superstition in Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_traditions_and_superstitions) ? Trust me- if Russia would be European it would be the only European country renowned for it.
:rolleyes:
You're seriously deluded, LS. A good quarter of the superstitions there are met with in my English family. Another fifth or so are bollocks, made up for the article, or incredibly rare nowadays so that I haven't come across them. Others there have serious practical benefits, and others perform a welcom psychological function. The rest is harmless local colour, something that distinguishes one nation from another, and to be PRAISED on a forum like ours.

[Brännvin]

Thank you for your opinion. I value that. I have mine though because i am an individual.

Actually to read what I wrote; a different subclade.

From the wiki its same source; :coffee:

In human genetics, Haplogroup I1 is a Y chromosome haplogroup occurring at greatest frequency in Scandinavia, associated with the mutations identified as M253, M307, P30, and P40.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I1_(Y-DNA)

[Matritensis]

I don't have an answer to the original question,but I sure know what to do with retarded polls.

[Johnston]

I chose assimilate them. Assimilation is what all great powers do. Check the video. You know what I'm talking about!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e64chbyc6I0

[The Ripper]

Thanks for necromancing this awesome and ancient thread I hadn't bumped into before. And Hors, whattaguy.

@OP

VvDBKPADpT8

"Little Russkies in St. Petes are having nightmares:
Russia is become a borderland, Finland an Empire!"

:wink

[Lurker]

Why should anything be done about the Finns, Estonians or Hungarians? They are European & have their own nation states. The Turks have Turkey - just repatriate the one already in Europe. The Tatars have Tatarstan in Russia. The Jews can go to Palestine (though I prefer the Madagascan Plan) & the Gypsies to India.

I don't know if Lipka Tatars know the language that's spoken in Tatarstan, in Russia. Actually, I think their culture diverged a lot from the original Tatars and they became some kind of "honorary" Polish.

[Aces High]

There are a lot of peoples in Europe who are racially Europid but have non-European origin. They reside here for centuries and even milleniums and their non-European past is largely forgotten/unknown.

I'm talking about Jews, Gypsies, Turkics (Tatars, Turks), Finnics (Finns, Estonians, Hungarians etc.).


yYQlYocoFzo

[askra]

we should segregate all "neolithic" europeans in concentration camps or remove all them from europe, because only paleolithic ones are authentic europeans!!! :thumb001::rolleyes: