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Baluarte
06-06-2013, 09:37 PM
Latvia will become the 18th country to use the euro after being approved for membership by the European Commission.

In a report, the Commission confirmed that the Baltic state had met the criteria for joining the single currency.
Latvia is keen to strengthen ties with western Europe and reduce its dependency on Russia.

Officials said the eurozone had defied those who predicted it would collapse under the sovereign debt crisis.
Latvia has already experienced the downside of being in a currency union.

'Widespread enthusiasm'

The country will start using the currency at the beginning of 2014 after meeting the criteria for membership, including low inflation and long-term interest rates, as well as low public debt.

EU Economic and Monetary Affairs Commissioner Olli Rehn said Latvia's desire to adopt the euro was a sign of confidence in the single currency.

"Those who predicted a disintegration of the euro...were simply wrong," Rehn told a news conference.

The BBC Brussels correspondent, Matthew Price, said that unlike some established members of the zone, Latvia was well within the economic limits set by Brussels for joining.

"In much of Eastern Europe there's widespread enthusiasm - certainly among policy makers - for joining the single currency," he noted.

"However, polls suggest that many in the country are worried the switch could drive prices higher."

Anti-euro parties won more than half of the vote in elections in the capital, Riga, last weekend..

The membership still has to be approved by EU leaders and the European Parliament, but that is seen as a formality.

EU finance ministers are expected to sign off the accession in July.

The European Central Bank (ECB) also gave its blessing to Latvia on Wednesday ahead of the Commission's announcement, but warned high foreign deposits in its banks were a risk to financial stability.

"The reliance by a significant part of the banking sector on non-resident deposits as a source of funding, while not a recent phenomenon, is again on the rise and represents an important risk to financial stability," the ECB said.


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Oh Dear God:picard2:

The idiocy of the Baltic leaders. Walking happily towards hell believing they must escape Russia at all costs.

Citizen
06-09-2013, 01:02 PM
Oh Dear God:picard2:

The idiocy of the Baltic leaders. Walking happily towards hell believing they must escape Russia at all costs.

Couldn't agree more, but its not limited to Baltics, its a general, sad trend in eastern/central Europe.

riverman
06-09-2013, 01:04 PM
Cool!

Permafrost
06-09-2013, 01:05 PM
Couldn't agree more, but its not limited to Baltics, its a general, sad trend in eastern/central Europe.

It's because Balts and central/eastern Europeans are stuck between the hammer and the anvil.

Lábaru
06-09-2013, 01:20 PM
Welcome to the Jewzone :)

Citizen
06-09-2013, 01:24 PM
It's because Balts and central/eastern Europeans are stuck between the hammer and the anvil.
You are as stuck as you want to be, I wish we had the stance Czech have towards both Russia and EU.

RussiaPrussia
06-09-2013, 01:27 PM
Couldn't agree more, but its not limited to Baltics, its a general, sad trend in eastern/central Europe.

Its actually the same for Finland, all other Scandinavians didnt want to join the EU except them.

sevruk
06-09-2013, 01:43 PM
good luck!

Citizen
06-09-2013, 01:45 PM
Its actually the same for Finland, all other Scandinavians didnt want to join the EU except them.
You mean monetary union, because they all are part of EU, except Norway. I think that Finland going euro had more to do with economics than irrational fear of war with Russia, they never joined NATO during cold war era so doubt they see euro as some anti-russian defense weapon as its seen by the local lunatics here.

RussiaPrussia
06-09-2013, 04:28 PM
You mean monetary union, because they all are part of EU, except Norway. I think that Finland going euro had more to do with economics than irrational fear of war with Russia, they never joined NATO during cold war era so doubt they see euro as some anti-russian defense weapon as its seen by the local lunatics here.

not anti russian but wanting to be part of the west as much as possible, hence they still hold swedish language as official

Permafrost
06-09-2013, 04:34 PM
You are as stuck as you want to be, I wish we had the stance Czech have towards both Russia and EU.

I doubt it's a matter of choice. On one cardinal direction you have retarded Eurocrats, on the other corrupt Russian oligarchs. There's simply no way out of it.

What I propose for us Slavs, Balts and Hungarians is Intermarium

http://www.slavsk.com/im/im_f.gif

EDIT: Excluding Estonians obviously, we don't want to drag their Nordic asses down to our level.

Citizen
06-09-2013, 04:43 PM
not anti russian but wanting to be part of the west as much as possible, hence they still hold swedish language as official

When was it not part of "the west"? If Finland wanted to be more part of "west" they should join NATO, that's a western military alliance, euro is an economic choice (probably bad one for them as well in retrospect), from what I know they have Swedish as official in some island or something where predominantly Swedes live, thou I don't see how that makes them more "western", is Swedish more western language than Finnish and if so why is that?

RussiaPrussia
06-09-2013, 07:38 PM
When was it not part of "the west"? If Finland wanted to be more part of "west" they should join NATO, that's a western military alliance, euro is an economic choice (probably bad one for them as well in retrospect), from what I know they have Swedish as official in some island or something where predominantly Swedes live, thou I don't see how that makes them more "western", is Swedish more western language than Finnish and if so why is that?

yes uralic comes from asia, finland isnt a scandinavian country. Nato isnt a western organisation thats why turkey is in there.

Styggnacke
06-09-2013, 07:44 PM
Its actually the same for Finland, all other Scandinavians didnt want to join the EU except them.
All EU countries are forced to join the EMU at some point, that's why Finland joined the EMU in 2002 like all other EU countries did. The only exceptions from the EU 15 countries are Sweden (because of our referendum), Denmark and the UK (they managed to get some deal with Brussels which excepted them from this rule). So, it has nothing to do with "Finnish Russophobia".

And the reason why Swedish is official in Finland is mainly because of the Åland islands, which are unilingually Swedish. They wouldn't have got them from the League of Nations in 1921 if they didn't have Swedish language as official language and gave autonomy to the islands. Nothing do to with some imaginary "Russophobia" in this case either.

yes uralic comes from asia, finland isnt a scandinavian country.
It's a Nordic country, though.

Citizen
06-09-2013, 08:11 PM
yes uralic comes from asia, finland isnt a scandinavian country. Nato isnt a western organisation thats why turkey is in there.

The division of west and east comes from cold war divisions of the world, it has nothing to do with linguistics. It was pretty simple then, pro-USA countries joined NATO and pro-USSR Warsaw pact, so in that case Finland was technically with the west but not fully as it never joined NATO. Rest was called third world.


All EU countries are forced to join the EMU at some point, that's why Finland joined the EMU in 2002 like all other EU countries did. The only exceptions from the EU 15 countries are Sweden (because of our referendum), Denmark and the UK (they managed to get some deal with Brussels which excepted them from this rule).

I think its something that can be postponed indefinitely as long as there is a lack of support from the public a government can just call referendum and take the whole thing down, so its not like Finland didn't had the same rules Sweden did. From what I know, they didn't had a referendum on the subject, if they didn't had the public support for it, they could have easily stayed with national currency. Our current government is blantly ignoring the majority who is against it.

Harkonnen
06-09-2013, 08:48 PM
yes uralic comes from asia, finland isnt a scandinavian country. Nato isnt a western organisation thats why turkey is in there.

Origin of Uralic is not in Asia, but in Volga-Urals which counts in Europe. The origin of Indo-European was just south of Uralic, not in west Europe so I fail to see why speaking IE would translate to western Europeanish synonymity sköggeböikedeleish.

Szegedist
06-09-2013, 08:50 PM
I doubt it's a matter of choice. On one cardinal direction you have retarded Eurocrats, on the other corrupt Russian oligarchs. There's simply no way out of it.

What I propose for us Slavs, Balts and Hungarians is Intermarium

http://www.slavsk.com/im/im_f.gif

EDIT: Excluding Estonians obviously, we don't want to drag their Nordic asses down to our level.


I have a counter proposal, Slovenia, Croatia and the Balts join the V4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visegr%C3%A1d_Group

But the V4 would need some reforms, because right now its too Eu friendly, but it has potential.

Such ideas are nothing new, Intermarrum, Kossuth's Danubian federation, and our goverment actually wanted to do this during WW2, make a federation of Central European countries ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A1l_Teleki#Germany_demands_Hungary.27s_assist ance ), but none of the attempts sadly worked out, now most of the region are slaves to Anglo-Germanics.

Citizen
06-09-2013, 08:55 PM
But none of the attempts sadly worked out, now most of the region are slaves to Anglo-Germanics.
I think people like Viktor Orban can change that, at least in Hungary.

Szegedist
06-09-2013, 09:04 PM
I think people like Viktor Orban can change that, at least in Hungary.

Viktor Orbán is an exception.

Speaking of Viktor Orbán, he talked about countries from the Adriatic to the Baltic banding together.
He went to Poland with this idea, but Donald Tusk rejected it, after this it didn't come up again.

Pure ja
06-09-2013, 10:09 PM
yes uralic comes from asia, finland isnt a scandinavian country. Nato isnt a western organisation thats why turkey is in there.

Uralic origin is not in any way more eastern than indo-european.
BUT, uralic is definitely more NORDIC !

Szegedist
06-10-2013, 12:18 PM
BUT, uralic is definitely more NORDIC !

Is it?

Baluarte
06-10-2013, 12:21 PM
Donald Tusk is perhaps the textbook definition of a pawn of the West, no wonder Orban didn't achieve anything with him.

Check the series about the Polish government I've put in their forum: Faith in the Euro, privatisations, eternal oath of submission to the US and NATO...

Maximum Speed
06-10-2013, 12:37 PM
poor latvians...

Szegedist
06-10-2013, 12:37 PM
Donald Tusk is perhaps the textbook definition of a pawn of the West, no wonder Orban didn't achieve anything with him.

Check the series about the Polish government I've put in their forum: Faith in the Euro, privatisations, eternal oath of submission to the US and NATO...

It would be great if the Law and Justice party won in Poland in their next elections, for sure they would be on our side, and unlike Hungary, Poland is one of the biggest economies in the EU and a big population. That would set things in a better direction.

alfieb
06-10-2013, 12:41 PM
smh.

:rip: Latvian Lats

Another sovereign nation voluntarily bending over for the EUSSR.

Annihilus
06-10-2013, 12:48 PM
Prepare soon to pay in euro's what the price was in latvi.

Aunt Hilda
06-10-2013, 12:50 PM
Prepare soon to pay in euro's what the price was in lats.
fixed

Grenzland
06-10-2013, 12:59 PM
Another nation falls...

Permafrost
06-10-2013, 01:06 PM
Prepare soon to pay in euro's what the price was in latvi.

Which would be a good thing, since the lat is stronger than the euro.

Annihilus
06-10-2013, 01:10 PM
Which would be a good thing, since the lat is stronger than the euro.

In that case it might actually work for them.

Graham
06-12-2013, 04:16 PM
Joining the Eurozone isn't all bad, as long as Latvia have a plan B & don't do silly debt.

Citizen
06-12-2013, 05:12 PM
Our government is talking about eurozone as well... They want eurozone badly.

They want to pay into ESM as well? For us it will be 200 million euros in few years + around 140 millions or something estimated as expenses to introduce, mostly private sector, which will go into prices and the best part, we will have to pay into ESM on demand 1.4 billion euros, the unity party is freaking nuts. Thats like 1/6 of your government revenue (have to check this later to be sure) So if Italy goes bankrupt or something we will have to take up silly debt or cut even more spending. Im all for blanced budget, but I also believe if you tighten your belt too much you strangle yourself. For economy to grow you need to invest into education, business, culture.

riverman
06-12-2013, 05:48 PM
It's a Nordic country, though.

I thought finnland was N1ce.

mistyguy
10-25-2013, 06:27 PM
Latvia joining the euro zone will lead to the end of Latvia. Currency individualizes country's and makes them unique. Soon after Latvia will lose their language, and then Latvia in itself.

Loki
10-25-2013, 06:32 PM
Joining the Eurozone isn't all bad, as long as Latvia have a plan B & don't do silly debt.

It's really bad for the everyday man in the street. Prices go up unsustainably. Just look what happened to Hungary and Ireland. Hungary's economy is practically destroyed.

Szegedist
10-25-2013, 06:33 PM
It's really bad for the everyday man in the street. Prices go up unsustainably. Just look what happened to Hungary and Ireland. Hungary's economy is practically destroyed.

Hungary doesn't have the Euro, which gave it more control over its economy, which allowed new "unorthodox" policies that resulted in improvement, something Greece or Ireland were unable to do (because they dont have their own currency)

Corvus
10-25-2013, 06:44 PM
Absurd decision by the Latvian government to introduce € by 2014
The next € crisis is already on the horizon and this currency will go down the drain

Graham
10-25-2013, 08:55 PM
Ireland problem wasn't exactly the Eurozone. They built too many homes(bubble), & like us had the banking crisis. They have turned a corner now anyway.

Pure ja
10-26-2013, 01:16 PM
Absurd decision by the Latvian government to introduce € by 2014
The next € crisis is already on the horizon and this currency will go down the drain

Latvian debt is in EURos anyway, so no big loss.
And nobody expects to pay the debts of PIIGS, if they go broke, so will the rest. Just like that.
Nobody expects to actually pay their debts.

Citizen
10-26-2013, 03:24 PM
Latvian debt is in EURos anyway, so no big loss.
And nobody expects to pay the debts of PIIGS, if they go broke, so will the rest. Just like that.
Nobody expects to actually pay their debts.

You already paid for their debts when your gov. used your taxmoney to pay into EFSF, if PIIGS go bankrupt that means they don't pay back money to you. Simple as that.

Pure ja
10-26-2013, 07:17 PM
You already paid for their debts when your gov. used your taxmoney to pay into EFSF, if PIIGS go bankrupt that means they don't pay back money to you. Simple as that.

No Estonian tax money has gone for such purpose.
What Estonia has given to European Central Bank was old currency reserves of the Estonian Bank + own reserves of the Estonian Bank + some new loans that Estonia took.

I repeat - no tax money has gone for EFSF, nor to any other such fund. And nobody expects to actually pay their debt.

Rudel
10-26-2013, 07:22 PM
"In much of Eastern Europe there's widespread enthusiasm - certainly among policy makers - for joining the single currency," he noted.

They don't know, they just don't know.

It's like watching a puppy run into a meat-grinder.

Citizen
10-26-2013, 09:36 PM
No Estonian tax money has gone for such purpose.
I repeat - no tax money has gone for EFSF, nor to any other such fund. And nobody expects to actually pay their debt.

We already had this debate.

Estonia's national debt nearly doubled last year, in part due its involvement in the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF) created to bailout debt-laden eurozone members like Greece, Statistics Estonia said on Thursday.
http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/estonia-economy.nlc

And you will pay back those debts, you are already doing it other solution is default which hasnt happened, didnt Estonia went into recession in last quater of this year because of that? Greece might not pay back debts and go fully bankrupt, if you dont pay them your credit rating will be slashed, nobody will invest in your country and youll get fucked up too. Estonia is not China or USSR, it dones't have so many people and reasources that it can be self sustainable.

Graham
10-27-2013, 09:17 AM
Estonia barely has any debt to begin with. That is like turning one euro into two euros. ;)

robar
10-27-2013, 09:36 AM
not anti russian but wanting to be part of the west as much as possible, hence they still hold swedish language as official

That is what I do not understand about Finland. We are doing the oposite,cuz they demonise Atilla and named our country from the Huns we made some kind of hero Him,and the far-right want to switch the finno-ugric language theory to Turk one of the reason that this is too western....

Pure ja
10-27-2013, 04:55 PM
We already had this debate.


Yes, we already had this debate and you still haven't learned a thing.



And you will pay back those debts, you are already doing it other solution is default which hasnt happened, didnt Estonia went into recession in last quater of this year because of that? Greece might not pay back debts and go fully bankrupt, if you dont pay them your credit rating will be slashed, nobody will invest in your country and youll get fucked up too. Estonia is not China or USSR, it dones't have so many people and reasources that it can be self sustainable.

If the cause of Estonia's foreign debt is entirely due to supporting other EU members via EU stabilisation funds, then defaulting Estonia would still be credit-worthy, provided that Estonia left such EU stabilisation funds and EUROzone. Estonia can manage on its own.
And to put it another way - at the moment Estonia is about even regarding money from EU and money to EU.

And to clarify it further - since it is obvious that nobody in Europe and in the USA intend to pay back their debt, neither does Estonia. The spiral of debt increase continues as far as it can. Estonia does not intend to actively participate in the debt spiral, because getting off narcotics and excessive consumption would be very difficult later on. Estonia only participates in recreating and prolonging the mirage of debt-fueled growth, as part of an act of solidarity towards other EU members, for now. The problem is not just with the Eurozone, it is almost everywhere.

As long as Estonia's internally consumed debt is lower than that of Latvia's, Estonia will continue to have a better credit rating than Latvia.
As long as Germany's internally consumed debt is low, it will continue to have a better credit rating than Italy or Greece or France.

Citizen
10-27-2013, 09:02 PM
If the cause of Estonia's foreign debt is entirely due to supporting other EU members via EU stabilisation funds, then defaulting Estonia would still be credit-worthy, provided that Estonia left such EU stabilisation funds and EUROzone. Estonia can manage on its own.
And to put it another way - at the moment Estonia is about even regarding money from EU and money to EU.

No, because if you take a debt your government signs a deal, they are legally responsible to pay it. Imagine you went to a bank to take a loan to help a friend to pay back his loan, if your friend refuses to pay back to you then you cant just go back to the bank and say that they will have to take a loss because you have some legitimite reasons. Deals a deal. If you dont believe me just look at USA debt/budget crisis, USA has no problem paying back its debt but it has to be approved by government, Republicans almost blocked this, if that had happened USA credit rating would be slashed, it even happened last time because there was fear that it will happen. It would be the same with Estonia because if your minister signs a bond deal and later says, well guys we didnt mean to pay it back it means your country is a shithole that cant be trusted to honor a deal, so nobody will invest or lend money to such an untrustworthy shithole because they cant know if your gov. will just change mind like you said, exit eurozone and say that it will not pay what it said it will. Also there is no such thing as consumable debt. Ratings are based on countries past record, Standard and Poor's reduced USA creditrating when it just came close to default, it did so because USA politics have become unpredictable, it has nothing to do with imagined and made up terminology like consumed debt. Also last data shows that your countries growth in eurozone is lowest in Baltics and this year you even slipped in recession you are also completely dependent on others as your economy is completely export orientated.
http://finance.ninemsn.com.au/newsbusiness/aap/8720576/estonia-slips-into-recession

Pure ja
10-28-2013, 08:23 PM
No, because if you take a debt your government signs a deal, they are legally responsible to pay it.


No more responsible than any other.
And no other is going to pay back their debt, neither will Estonia.




Imagine you went to a bank to take a loan to help a friend to pay back his loan, if your friend refuses to pay back to you then you cant just go back to the bank and say that they will have to take a loss because you have some legitimite reasons. Deals a deal.


Not if all deals are off. Estonia would not default alone. Estonia would continue to fuel the mirage or go bankrupt TOGETHER with the Eurozone.
Either way, Estonia would not pay the debt.




If you dont believe me just look at USA debt/budget crisis, USA has no problem paying back its debt but it has to be approved by government, Republicans almost blocked this, if that had happened USA credit rating would be slashed, it even happened last time because there was fear that it will happen.


Exactly. USA will continue to loan more, until it cannot any more. It will not pay back its debt.




It would be the same with Estonia because if your minister signs a bond deal and later says, well guys we didnt mean to pay it back it means your country is a shithole that cant be trusted to honor a deal, so nobody will invest or lend money to such an untrustworthy shithole because they cant know if your gov. will just change mind like you said, exit eurozone and say that it will not pay what it said it will.


Estonia will just do what others will do, with the exception that Estonia would not use loans for internal use. The others are not going to pay back and neither will Estonia. If you think that someone is going to pay back, then the first should be the PIIGS. If they don't, others don't.

If Estonia goes bankrupt, it can still manage on its own, because Estonia is internally balanced.




Also there is no such thing as consumable debt. Ratings are based on countries past record, Standard and Poor's reduced USA creditrating when it just came close to default, it did so because USA politics have become unpredictable, it has nothing to do with imagined and made up terminology like consumed debt.


You will have to wait until Estonia's credit rating becomes worse than that of Latvia, before you can hope to change my mind.




Also last data shows that your countries growth in eurozone is lowest in Baltics and this year you even slipped in recession you are also completely dependent on others as your economy is completely export orientated.
http://finance.ninemsn.com.au/newsbusiness/aap/8720576/estonia-slips-into-recession

Sure, yes. So what? It is called convergence. Convergence also works within the Baltics. Estonia at least kas kept its own budget in balance.
How about Latvia? Still skirting with the 3% Maastricht rule? You do understand that you need to save during good times and spend during bad times? The world has just had some good years. Has Latvia saved during that period?

Citizen
10-30-2013, 11:10 AM
No more responsible than any other.
And no other is going to pay back their debt, neither will Estonia.

Where are you getting your facts from, please name a single politician currently in power who actually stated that. There is no such a person, neither in EU nor in Estonia. This is a BS you have cooked up in your own mind to feel good about the debt you are paying with interest currently to cover what you put into EFSF.



Not if all deals are off. Estonia would not default alone. Estonia would continue to fuel the mirage or go bankrupt TOGETHER with the Eurozone.
Either way, Estonia would not pay the debt.

Again, which politicians/countries have stated that? Name a single credible article from big news source like The Economist or Bloomberg, that has suggested anything like that from an even speculative perspective. Even if such scenario would take place it would have massive and bad economic complications,basically whole eurozone would become shithole that cant be trusted and if that is your assumption, why do you want to be part of a system that is heading to its own doom, I mean its EU who is creating all those debt boubles like EFSF and ESM and doing all the pointless bailouts, why be part of the bouble if you already stated that nobody will pay it back and system will collapse? Seems idiotic to me, not to mention that this scenario is not gonna happen, if you truly believe it will, please, give information from reliable sources.



Exactly. USA will continue to loan more, until it cannot any more. It will not pay back its debt.

No, USA debt is being reduced actually, it has happened before and it will happen now.



Estonia will just do what others will do, with the exception that Estonia would not use loans for internal use. The others are not going to pay back and neither will Estonia. If you think that someone is going to pay back, then the first should be the PIIGS. If they don't, others don't.

If Estonia goes bankrupt, it can still manage on its own, because Estonia is internally balanced.





You will have to wait until Estonia's credit rating becomes worse than that of Latvia, before you can hope to change my mind.

Latvia is a shitty country that is taking exactly the same path Estonia did, why would it happen? I would worry about you being overtaken by China, which already has the same rating as you depending on agency.



Sure, yes. So what? It is called convergence. Convergence also works within the Baltics. Estonia at least kas kept its own budget in balance.
How about Latvia? Still skirting with the 3% Maastricht rule? You do understand that you need to save during good times and spend during bad times? The world has just had some good years. Has Latvia saved during that period?

So recession and economy moving backwards in a country thats one of Europes poorest is a convergence or just a bad economic policy. What is Greece converging to? Albania? About Latvia, I dont support anything they are currently doing, wish we had 3% of deficit this year, we have 0.9%, hospitals are still lacking vital drugs, people with hepatitis C can just die, poverty is high and people are leaving. If by taking debt country can grow faster than debt, there is no problem with budget with deficit.

Pure ja
10-31-2013, 09:31 PM
Where are you getting your facts from, please name a single politician currently in power who actually stated that. There is no such a person, neither in EU nor in Estonia.


Those are not facts. Those are conclusions based on observations based on facts.




Again, which politicians/countries have stated that? Name a single credible article from big news source like The Economist or Bloomberg, that has suggested anything like that from an even speculative perspective.


There have been plenty of speculations of possible insolvency. But not an open admission of deliberate insolvency.
That is called plausible deniability. Similar to how governments are denying illegal spying on their own citizens. You can't possibly expect to get an open admission of deliberate insolvency from a politician or a bureaucrat.




Even if such scenario would take place it would have massive and bad economic complications,basically whole eurozone would become shithole that cant be trusted and if that is your assumption, why do you want to be part of a system that is heading to its own doom, I mean its EU who is creating all those debt boubles like EFSF and ESM and doing all the pointless bailouts, why be part of the bouble if you already stated that nobody will pay it back and system will collapse?


We are in this together, whether we want it or not, whether within or outside of the EUROzone, whether within or outside of the EU (if 50% of your economy rests on foreign trade and if 70% of that is with EU). The whole EU is at stake. Your logic is flawed. I am the optimist here and you are the pessimist. I merely state that if PIIGS do not pay back their debt, neither will the rest.




No, USA debt is being reduced actually, it has happened before and it will happen now.


It is not being reduced while the debt ceiling is being lifted again and again.




Latvia is a shitty country that is taking exactly the same path Estonia did, why would it happen? I would worry about you being overtaken by China, which already has the same rating as you depending on agency.


Why not compare then with Germany?
Germany has debt more than 90% of its GDP. Estonia just about 10%.
Horses for courses.




So recession and economy moving backwards in a country thats one of Europes poorest is a convergence or just a bad economic policy.


It is convergence.
Estonia just happens to lead Latvia and Latvia just happens to lag Estonia for a couple of quarters, as usual. Probably due to the excessive influence of Russian economy on Latvia.




About Latvia, I dont support anything they are currently doing, wish we had 3% of deficit this year, we have 0.9%, hospitals are still lacking vital drugs, people with hepatitis C can just die, poverty is high and people are leaving. If by taking debt country can grow faster than debt, there is no problem with budget with deficit.

Budget balance is not the main problem, the division of budget and inefficiencies are the problem. You can't grow while fueling inefficiencies. Latvia is overspending somewhere and underspending elsewhere, but overspending is larger at the moment.

Pure ja
10-31-2013, 09:33 PM
removed

Äike
11-24-2013, 06:34 PM
Latvia will become the 18th country to use the euro after being approved for membership by the European Commission.

This is good news. Currently in Northern-Europe, only the Finnic nations use the euro. I live 70km south of Helsinki and I have to say that the common currency is a very good thing at least for Estonia and Finland as our capitals are almost the same city.

Latvia will probably get more tourists from Estonia now, because of the euro.

Citizen
11-27-2013, 12:27 PM
Latvia will probably get more tourists from Estonia now, because of the euro.

If saving a few cents on currency exchange is the main reason to come to Riga then those tourists are dirt poor and of little impact to the citys economy. I went to Georgia this year and had to exchange money twice and lost almost nothing exchanging few hundred dollars and them changing to lari. Riga is pretty expensive city, it would be cheaper for them to exchange to Belarus Rubeli and go there.

Pure ja
11-27-2013, 08:53 PM
If saving a few cents on currency exchange is the main reason to come to Riga then those tourists are dirt poor and of little impact to the citys economy. I went to Georgia this year and had to exchange money twice and lost almost nothing exchanging few hundred dollars and them changing to lari. Riga is pretty expensive city, it would be cheaper for them to exchange to Belarus Rubeli and go there.

Those few cents amount to 0,5% of GDP. Latvia could use that to increase its defense budget.

ALSh
11-27-2013, 09:02 PM
So recession and economy moving backwards in a country thats one of Europes poorest is a convergence or just a bad economic policy. What is Greece converging to? Albania? About Latvia, I dont support anything they are currently doing, wish we had 3% of deficit this year, we have 0.9%, hospitals are still lacking vital drugs, people with hepatitis C can just die, poverty is high and people are leaving. If by taking debt country can grow faster than debt, there is no problem with budget with deficit.
U are right here. Problem is that borrowing money for healthcare is not an investmen that will bring u cash flow that would be needed to pay back principal+interest. Society will benefit only in the short term, but in the long term when the money of the debt will finish there will be no money for future or just u would borrow more.

Äike
11-27-2013, 10:17 PM
If saving a few cents on currency exchange is the main reason to come to Riga then those tourists are dirt poor and of little impact to the citys economy. I went to Georgia this year and had to exchange money twice and lost almost nothing exchanging few hundred dollars and them changing to lari. Riga is pretty expensive city, it would be cheaper for them to exchange to Belarus Rubeli and go there.

It's just convenience. You can easily compare prices etc. Like when going to a country with a completely different currency, where the values are very different, you have to think a lot to know if the value of something is worth it or not.

I'm glad that Latvia isn't so poor anymore that you were accepted into the eurozone. In the EU, you're either very rich(Sweden, Denmark) or very poor(Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic, Romania, Bulgaria) if you're not in the eurozone.

Hercus Monte
11-27-2013, 10:21 PM
I'm glad that Latvia isn't so poor anymore that you were accepted into the eurozone. In the EU, you're either very rich(Sweden, Denmark) or very poor(Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic, Romania, Bulgaria) if you're not in the eurozone.
your you being serious?

Äike
11-27-2013, 10:23 PM
your you being serious?

In the EU, the Westerners look onto the new year 2004 members as poor Eastern-European shitholes until they get the euro. Sadly it is so. So when Latvia gets the euro, it will also get a lot more tourists as getting the euro creates an image of some sort of stability and wealth to some extent (being accepted into the eurozone).

Hercus Monte
11-27-2013, 10:28 PM
In the EU, the Westerners look onto the new year 2004 members as poor Eastern-European shitholes until they get the euro. Sadly it is so. So when Latvia gets the euro, it will also get a lot more tourists as getting the euro creates an image of some sort of stability and wealth to some extent (being accepted into the eurozone).
how 'westerners' view us is not the Euro accession Criteria xD
The Euro accession Criteria pushes for a neo-liberal economic model. you can be dirt poor and still meet it lol.

Äike
11-27-2013, 10:35 PM
how 'westerners' view us is not the Euro accession Criteria xD
The Euro accession Criteria pushes for a neo-liberal economic model. you can be dirt poor and still meet it lol.

The euro will benefit your economy through tourism, that was my point.

Hercus Monte
11-27-2013, 10:40 PM
The euro will benefit your economy through tourism, that was my point.
I'm not disagreeing with that point. but to say that you have to be a moderate income country to join the eurozone makes no sense.
You joined in 2011 you know this.

Äike
11-27-2013, 10:44 PM
I'm not disagreeing with that point. but to say that you have to be a moderate income country to join the eurozone makes no sense.
You joined in 2011 you know this.

Yes, we would have joined in 2008, but then the economic depression came along. Before 2011, Estonia was too poor for Western-European standards, to join the euro.

All new EU members which are not a part of the eurozone, are poor Eastern-European nations, like Lithuania.

Hercus Monte
11-27-2013, 10:49 PM
Yes, we would have joined in 2008, but then the economic depression came along. Before 2011, Estonia was too poor for Western-European standards, to join the euro.

All new EU members which are not a part of the eurozone, are poor Eastern-European nations, like Lithuania.
no, estonia wan't too poor, Estonia simply didn't meet the criteria.

We should have joined in 2006 (we met the Criteria) but the commission made a mistake when predicting our future inflation rate.

Or do you not understand that it's not your GDP that decides if you meet the criteria?
also, our GDP is much bigger that yours.

Äike
11-27-2013, 10:55 PM
no, estonia wan't too poor, Estonia simply didn't meet the criteria.
We should have joined in 2006 (we met the Criteria) but the commission made a mistake when predicting our future inflation rate.

Or do you not understand that it's not your GDP that decides if you meet the criteria?
also, our GDP is much bigger that yours.

Estonia has always met the criteria, it was just thought that it isn't a wise choice to join at that situation.

Luxembourg and Estonia are the only 2 countries in the entire eurozone that have always perfectly fulfilled the Maastricht criteria + Estonia has only 8% of loans.

Eastern-European shitholes without the euro can't fulfill the Maastricht criteria.

Hercus Monte
11-27-2013, 11:02 PM
Estonia has always met the criteria, it was just thought that it isn't a wise choice to join at that situation.

Luxembourg and Estonia are the only 2 countries in the entire eurozone that have always perfectly fulfilled the Maastricht criteria + Estonia has only 8% of loans.

always? that's not true, especially when it comes to inflation.
you have been doing fairly well in the past couple of yours.



Eastern-European shitholes without the euro can't fulfill the Maastricht criteria.

that's not really true as well, any EU country can fufill the criteria if they balance their budged and have the 'proper' economic model.

PS. where did you get the Idea that estonia is richer now than before 2008?
you do realize that estonia hasn't yet reached its pre-crisis levels?

Äike
11-27-2013, 11:11 PM
always? that's not true, especially when it comes to inflation.
you have been doing fairly well in the past couple of yours.



that's not really true as well, any EU country can fufill the criteria if they balance their budged and have the 'proper' economic model.

PS. whre did you get the Idea that estonia is richer now than before 2008?
you do realize that estonia hasn't yet reached it pre-crisis levels?

lol, what are you talking about? Estonia surpassed its pre-crisis level already in 2011. We did the necessary reforms in 2008, 2009 and 2010 what some countries are still doing today or haven't started, thus the quick recovery.

Hercus Monte
11-27-2013, 11:16 PM
lol, what are you talking about? Estonia surpassed its pre-crisis level already in 2011. We did the necessary reforms in 2008, 2009 and 2010 what some countries are still doing today or haven't started, thus the quick recovery.
not according to your economic reports.
http://www.baltic-course.com/eng/analytics/?doc=77494


Lithuania's economy is currently the closest to the pre-crisis level among all Baltic economies – only 2.3% away from it, followed by Estonia's economy – 4.9%, and Latvia's economy – which is yet to grow 12.2% to reach the pre-crisis level.

Äike
11-27-2013, 11:21 PM
not according to your economic reports.
http://www.baltic-course.com/eng/analytics/?doc=77494


http://countryeconomy.com/gdp/estonia

You're visibly an amateur in the economic field, go look at the graph.

Our pre-crisis level has been surpassed years ago.

Hercus Monte
11-27-2013, 11:25 PM
http://countryeconomy.com/gdp/estonia

You're visibly an amateur in the economic field, go look at the graph.

Our pre-crisis level has been surpassed years ago.
:picard1:
gdp is only a small part of reaching pre-crisis levels.

and I quoted a financial SEB financial analyst, not some amateur.

Äike
11-27-2013, 11:37 PM
:picard1:
gdp is only a small part of reaching pre-crisis levels.

and I quoted a financial SEB financial analyst, not some amateur.

The average wages of the Estonians also surpassed the pre-crisis level... We are richer than before the crisis.

Hercus Monte
11-27-2013, 11:40 PM
The average wages of the Estonians also surpassed the pre-crisis level... We are richer than before the crisis.
you clearly don't understand what 'reaching pre-crisis levels' means.

Äike
11-28-2013, 12:27 AM
you clearly don't understand what 'reaching pre-crisis levels' means.

Our GDP has surpassed our pre-crisis level, our GDP per capita (also the PPP one) has surpassed the pre-crisis one and our wages have surpassed pre-crisis levels.

Now, stop playing a retard and tell me what do you mean. Pre-crisis level in what? GDP? GDP per capita? GDP per capita PPP? Wages? I brought out everything.

Hercus Monte
11-28-2013, 12:44 AM
Our GDP has surpassed our pre-crisis level, our GDP per capita (also the PPP one) has surpassed the pre-crisis one and our wages have surpassed pre-crisis levels.

Now, stop playing a retard and tell me what do you mean. Pre-crisis level in what? GDP? GDP per capita? GDP per capita PPP? Wages? I brought out everything.
economic growth rates, export indicators, export oriented economic sectors, unemployment, purchasing power, internal and external investment, personal consumption etc.
there's many things you have to consider, not just GDP xD

also, do you kiss your mother with that mouth? stop being so rude.

Äike
11-28-2013, 01:52 AM
economic growth rates

Good, but could be better. There's no extremely massive growth that makes you look like this, after seeing the numbers: O_O. There's moderate growth.


export indicators, export oriented economic sectors,

Export is good, but slowing down with the Finnish economy slowing down considerably. We mostly do business with other Nordic people, it's easier and makes sense geographically. Thus it's a bit bad when Sweden and Finland with their economies are starting to slow down. They're one of the main export markets.


unemployment

I think it was 4%, which is not bad.


purchasing power

We're rich as fuck, I have so much fucking money that I don't even know what to spend it on. In entire Europe, shopping mall square meters to people, Estonia has the most shopping malls, as our purchasing power is increasing with every year.


internal and external investment

External investment, not so good in the past year, but internal one, there's something amazing going on with that. Recently, Eesti Meedia AS (Estonian Media) bought all Estonian media outlets and all Baltic media outlets from the Norwegian company that just left the market. Estonians control Baltic media. There are similar stories with Estonians buying companies away from foreign investors who have decided to leave the market.


, personal consumption etc.

Has risen in the past years and is one factor of our economic growth.


there's many things you have to consider, not just GDP xD

Cool story, bro.


also, do you kiss your mother with that mouth? stop being so rude.

I have never kissed my mother, that kissing on your face when you greet each other, it's an Eastern-European thing that we find quite uncomfortable.

Hercus Monte
11-28-2013, 02:25 AM
Good, but could be better. There's no extremely massive growth that makes you look like this, after seeing the numbers: O_O. There's moderate growth.



Export is good, but slowing down with the Finnish economy slowing down considerably. We mostly do business with other Nordic people, it's easier and makes sense geographically. Thus it's a bit bad when Sweden and Finland with their economies are starting to slow down. They're one of the main export markets.



I think it was 4%, which is not bad.



We're rich as fuck, I have so much fucking money that I don't even know what to spend it on. In entire Europe, shopping mall square meters to people, Estonia has the most shopping malls, as our purchasing power is increasing with every year.



External investment, not so good in the past year, but internal one, there's something amazing going on with that. Recently, Eesti Meedia AS (Estonian Media) bought all Estonian media outlets and all Baltic media outlets from the Norwegian company that just left the market. Estonians control Baltic media. There are similar stories with Estonians buying companies away from foreign investors who have decided to leave the market.



Has risen in the past years and is one factor of our economic growth.



Cool story, bro.



I have never kissed my mother, that kissing on your face when you greet each other, it's an Eastern-European thing that we find quite uncomfortable.

right, well I wish you a nice day in the Estonian paradise.


p.s. ''Do you kiss your mother with that mouth'' is an idiom in the English language, I recommend you brush up on your language skills, especially when it comes to figurative speech.


also, kissing people when you greet them is completely un-eastern european, it's a very western thing.

Äike
11-28-2013, 02:28 AM
right, well I wish you a nice day in the Estonian paradise.

Thanks, when Lithuania gets the euro, I will bring you some paradise and raise your GRP.



p.s. ''Do you kiss your mother with that mouth'' is an idiom in the English language, I recommend you brush up on your language skills.
also, kissing people when you greet them is completely un-eastern european, it's a very western thing.

I knew that, I just wanted to be original. Also, people who kiss each other when greeting is an Eastern-European(Balts + Slavs + Hungarians + Romanians + Balkanites) and a Southern-European( French + Portuguese + Spaniards + Italians + Greeks) thing.

Hercus Monte
11-28-2013, 02:31 AM
I knew that, I just wanted to be original. Also, people who kiss each other when greeting is an Eastern-European(Balts + Slavs + Hungarians + Romanians + Balkanites) and a Southern-European( French + Portuguese + Spaniards + Italians + Greeks) thing.
but we don't do that, lol. You really know very little about us, don't you?

I hope you don't mind me asking but are you autistic(or maybe bipolar) by any chance?

Äike
11-28-2013, 02:37 AM
but we don't do that, lol. You really know very little about us, do you?

I just like to put Balts and Slavs into the same pot, it makes me feel all warm inside. Like the term "Balto-Slavs", the linguistic family. Such a beautiful word.


I hope you don't mind me asking but are you autistic(or maybe bipolar) by any chance?

No? Are you?

Hercus Monte
11-28-2013, 02:44 AM
I just like to put Balts and Slavs into the same pot, it makes me feel all warm inside. Like the term "Balto-Slavs", the linguistic family. Such a beautiful word.

I prefer Germano-balto-slav, it has an indo-european ring to it.

No? Are you?
your comments display certain characteristics I would associate with autism. You might want to get that checked out.

Äike
11-28-2013, 02:53 AM
I prefer Germano-balto-slav, it has an indo-european ring to it.

Balto-Slavic is quite recent and it's literally a singe linguistic family group, like Germanics. Balts separated from Slavs at the same time when Northern-Germanic split from Western-Germanic.


your comments display certain characteristics I would associate with autism. You might want to get that checked out.

That's a very subtle way of saying "you're retarded". Are you really thinking that my posts are very serious, at 5 AM?

Hercus Monte
11-28-2013, 03:10 AM
Balto-Slavic is quite recent and it's literally a singe linguistic family group, like Germanics. Balts separated from Slavs at the same time when Northern-Germanic split from Western-Germanic.
we didn't split from slavs, both proto-slavic and proto-baltic developed form proto-balto-slavic, out of which all later proto-Baltic and proto-Slavic languages descended.
and proto-balto-slavic developed from germano-balto-slavic, and germano-balto-slavic developed from proto-indo-european, etc.

and please define ''quite recent''. over 3500 years of being separate language groups is quite a long time in my book.

baltic and slavic are quite distant and completely unintelligible, slavs might as well be Germanic to us.



That's a very subtle way of saying "you're retarded". Are you really thinking that my posts are very serious, at 5 AM?
Autistic people are not retarded, I recommend you learn more about about the condition before you speak in such a manner.

Citizen
11-28-2013, 10:59 AM
My god Äike, if you choose to go to Riga instead of Vilnius because now you can compare the prices easier then you must be really mentally challenged. If its so hard for you to do in head use some smartphone app for it. When I go to a trip I only have to make sure my cup of tea doesn't cost 200$, only dirt poor people go to a vacation and count if its few cents more or less than in Tallinn. And Im sorry but with a 740 euros monthly salary Estonia is an eastern European shithole be it euro or not. I view Czech Republic with its own currency and Warsaw pact past a lot better than Greece with euro and never part of the communist block. Is Greece a great country just because it has euro?

Pure ja
11-28-2013, 11:03 AM
Yes, we would have joined in 2008, but then the economic depression came along. Before 2011, Estonia was too poor for Western-European standards, to join the euro.


Actually, we couldn't join Eurozone before because of too high inflation.
And the Ansip government miscalculated (was too optimistic with) the 2007 and 2008 budget, thus fueling the inflation.
Our government made the mistake, but they learned the lesson and 2009 brought acceptance to the Eurozone.

Pure ja
11-28-2013, 11:07 AM
you clearly don't understand what 'reaching pre-crisis levels' means.

To be fair, there was no "pre-crisis level" to speak of. There was no level, it was a bubble. And SEB analysts as professionals should know that comparisons with bubble levels are quite meaningless.

Corvus
11-28-2013, 11:13 AM
My god Äike, if you choose to go to Riga instead of Vilnius because now you can compare the prices easier then you must be really mentally challenged. If its so hard for you to do in head use some smartphone app for it. When I go to a trip I only have to make sure my cup of tea doesn't cost 200$, only dirt poor people go to a vacation and count if its few cents more or less than in Tallinn. And Im sorry but with a 740 euros monthly salary Estonia is an eastern European shithole be it euro or not. I view Czech Republic with its own currency and Warsaw pact past a lot better than Greece with euro and never part of the communist block. Is Greece a great country just because it has euro?

The Czech Koruna is closley related to the €. Now their currency dropped to a record low after the EZB has annonced a cut of intrest rates.
Costs of living in the Czech Rep. are still by far lower than in most European countries, but so are wages and salaries

http://www.expats.cz/prague/article/prague-relocation/cost-of-living/

Citizen
11-28-2013, 11:21 AM
The Czech Koruna is closley related to the €. Now their currency dropped to a record low after the EZB has annonced a cut of intrest rates.
Costs of living in the Czech Rep. are still by far lower than in most European countries, but so are wages and salaries

http://www.expats.cz/prague/article/prague-relocation/cost-of-living/
Czech salaries are much higher than Slovak ones (remember they used to be one country) while prices are much higher in Slovakia. This is what euro does. Meaning Czech purchesing power in Czech Rep. is higher than Slovak in Slovakia, meaning Czech people are richer. Also the falling value is good as it helps export to grow, this is one of main reasons to stick with their own currency and keep it floating instead of attached to euro. Pegging currency to euro is an economic suicide.

Pure ja
11-28-2013, 11:31 AM
economic growth rates, export indicators, export oriented economic sectors, unemployment, purchasing power, internal and external investment, personal consumption etc.
there's many things you have to consider, not just GDP xD

also, do you kiss your mother with that mouth? stop being so rude.

Export was the first which surpassed pre-crisis level. And that is something that wasn't affected with the local bubble.
Unemployment is also at or below "pre-crisis level".

Evolution of PPP is different among different income deciles. Arithmetic average might not be the best metric.

Citizen
11-28-2013, 11:35 AM
For those who try to argue that Maastricht criteria fulfillment is some kind of indicatir of country not being poor, here you can see that Bulgaria fulfills all criteria except one, it has not attached its currency to euro for 2 years. Similary 2 "very rich states" Bosnia and Kosovo fulfill 3 main criteria. Must be really great to live in prosperous countries like Bilgaria, Bosnia or Kosovo (if thats country at all).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_criteria

Pure ja
11-28-2013, 12:40 PM
For those who try to argue that Maastricht criteria fulfillment is some kind of indicatir of country not being poor, here you can see that Bulgaria fulfills all criteria except one, it has not attached its currency to euro for 2 years. Similary 2 "very rich states" Bosnia and Kosovo fulfill 3 main criteria. Must be really great to live in prosperous countries like Bilgaria, Bosnia or Kosovo (if thats country at all).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_criteria

Citizen, you missed something.
Bulgarian lev IS tied to the EURO, has been for a long time. Technically Bulgaria could join Eurozone, but so far they have refused to officially step into the ERM period, although their lev has always adhered to the norms of ERM.

eeroli
11-28-2013, 12:40 PM
At least in Latvia they play ice-hockey. :thumb001:

Citizen
11-28-2013, 12:56 PM
Citizen, you missed something.
Bulgarian lev IS tied to the EURO, has been for a long time. Technically Bulgaria could join Eurozone, but so far they have refused to officially step into the ERM period, although their lev has always adhered to the norms of ERM.

Which proves my point, as even EU's poorest country, where people set themselfs on fire to protest poverty, can easily enter eurozone, what an elite club of successful states that is.


At least in Latvia they play ice-hockey. :thumb001:
I never watch that stuff, what difference does it make if the country is shit.

Äike
11-28-2013, 04:23 PM
we didn't split from slavs, both proto-slavic and proto-baltic developed form proto-balto-slavic, out of which all later proto-Baltic and proto-Slavic languages descended.
and proto-balto-slavic developed from germano-balto-slavic, and germano-balto-slavic developed from proto-indo-european, etc.

and please define ''quite recent''. over 3500 years of being separate language groups is quite a long time in my book.

baltic and slavic are quite distant and completely unintelligible, slavs might as well be Germanic to us.


Autistic people are not retarded, I recommend you learn more about about the condition before you speak in such a manner.

Slavs and Balts split from Balto-Slavic at the same time when the Germanic group split into two. Latvians to Russians are what the English are to the Swedes. You're both closely related and will never been Central- or Northern-European because of your Balto-Slavic heritage.


My god Äike, if you choose to go to Riga instead of Vilnius because now you can compare the prices easier then you must be really mentally challenged. If its so hard for you to do in head use some smartphone app for it. When I go to a trip I only have to make sure my cup of tea doesn't cost 200$, only dirt poor people go to a vacation and count if its few cents more or less than in Tallinn. And Im sorry but with a 740 euros monthly salary Estonia is an eastern European shithole be it euro or not. I view Czech Republic with its own currency and Warsaw pact past a lot better than Greece with euro and never part of the communist block. Is Greece a great country just because it has euro?

Finnics know how to spend money, that's why we are wealthier than you.

Also, the average Estonian wage is 930 euros. That something that most Latvians can only dream about.

P.S You're one of the most butt-hurt people I have seen here. Accept that you're poor Eastern-Europeans who have fucked up quite a lot. In 1991, Latvia was at the same level as Estonia, but had (and still has) more people and resources. Now in 2013, Estonia is visibly more developed and wealthier than Latvia. Also several times less corrupt. Like one newsstory I read one time. First page news in all newspapers a few years ago: "Tallink hotel in Riga was built without bribing anyone!". It was first page news, as Latvians are extremely corrupt, which is hard to understand, for us developed Nordics.

Hercus Monte
11-28-2013, 04:43 PM
Slavs and Balts split from Balto-Slavic at the same time when the Germanic group split into two. Latvians to Russians are what the English are to the Swedes. You're both closely related and will never been Central- or Northern-European because of your Balto-Slavic heritage.

are you really that naive or are you just pretending?
the classification of germanic languages into North, west, and east germanic is very much comparable to the way baltic languages are split into :
west(prussian), east(latvian, lithuanian is sometimes classified as a middle baltic language(personally, that makes sense to me because I understand Prussian allot better than I understand Latvian),
or slavic languages (west(polish, Czech) east(russian, ukrainian) and south).
btw, the germanic language split is dated from AD 200 onwards. that's a far cry from 1500 BCE.

also, English might very well be a north germanic language.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121127094111.htm (http://www.york.ac.uk/language/news/events/talks/special-lectures/emonds/)

Citizen
11-28-2013, 04:45 PM
Also, the average Estonian wage is 930 euros. That something that most Latvians can only dream about.
You do understand thats the so called bruto salary? Bruto meaning you have to pay taxes from it and you get less in the end. In any case, its a slaves money, if I had to live on 930 euros a month I could not afford half of what I get. I do have to admit that majority of Latvians make something like that or even less. So I agree to you on one point, Latvia is pretty shit place to live, but if you think 930 euros is good money, especially, before taxes, you havent really lived well.



P.S You're one of the most butt-hurt people I have seen here. Accept that you're poor Eastern-Europeans who have fucked up quite a lot. In 1991, Latvia was at the same level as Estonia, but had (and still has) more people and resources. Now in 2013, Estonia is visibly more developed and wealthier than Latvia. Also several times less corrupt. Like one newsstory I read one time. First page news in all newspapers a few years ago: "Tallink hotel in Riga was built without bribing anyone!". It was first page news, as Latvians are extremely corrupt, which is hard to understand, for us developed Nordics.

My god, you are so full of yourself with all the Nordic crap. News flash for you buddy, nobody in so called Nordic states considers you Nordic. ;) Its a pretty big joke amongst quit a few Swedes and Danes I know. Ive been to Tallinn a lot, people living in the same old soviet apartment blocks with trams probably made in 80's and thats your capital. And the country side being even more worse. Not saying Latvia is better, Latvia is shit place to live too, Im saying its the same shit here as its there. The only thing thats worse in Latvia is the road quality.

Now answer me this how, does Bulgaria fulfill all the magic Maastricht criteria and still is the Europes poorest state?

Jackson
11-28-2013, 04:49 PM
Latvia will become the 18th country to use the euro after being approved for membership by the European Commission.

In a report, the Commission confirmed that the Baltic state had met the criteria for joining the single currency.
Latvia is keen to strengthen ties with western Europe and reduce its dependency on Russia.

Officials said the eurozone had defied those who predicted it would collapse under the sovereign debt crisis.
Latvia has already experienced the downside of being in a currency union.

'Widespread enthusiasm'

The country will start using the currency at the beginning of 2014 after meeting the criteria for membership, including low inflation and long-term interest rates, as well as low public debt.

EU Economic and Monetary Affairs Commissioner Olli Rehn said Latvia's desire to adopt the euro was a sign of confidence in the single currency.

"Those who predicted a disintegration of the euro...were simply wrong," Rehn told a news conference.

The BBC Brussels correspondent, Matthew Price, said that unlike some established members of the zone, Latvia was well within the economic limits set by Brussels for joining.

"In much of Eastern Europe there's widespread enthusiasm - certainly among policy makers - for joining the single currency," he noted.

"However, polls suggest that many in the country are worried the switch could drive prices higher."

Anti-euro parties won more than half of the vote in elections in the capital, Riga, last weekend..

The membership still has to be approved by EU leaders and the European Parliament, but that is seen as a formality.

EU finance ministers are expected to sign off the accession in July.

The European Central Bank (ECB) also gave its blessing to Latvia on Wednesday ahead of the Commission's announcement, but warned high foreign deposits in its banks were a risk to financial stability.

"The reliance by a significant part of the banking sector on non-resident deposits as a source of funding, while not a recent phenomenon, is again on the rise and represents an important risk to financial stability," the ECB said.


--------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh Dear God:picard2:

The idiocy of the Baltic leaders. Walking happily towards hell believing they must escape Russia at all costs.

I like how they say 'there's widespread enthusiam' and then forget that the government aren't the only people living in the country.

I can understand why they want to distance themselves from Russia, but they'd be better off trying to distance themselves from both.

denz
11-28-2013, 04:51 PM
For those who try to argue that Maastricht criteria fulfillment is some kind of indicatir of country not being poor, here you can see that Bulgaria fulfills all criteria except one, it has not attached its currency to euro for 2 years. Similary 2 "very rich states" Bosnia and Kosovo fulfill 3 main criteria. Must be really great to live in prosperous countries like Bilgaria, Bosnia or Kosovo (if thats country at all).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_criteria

He he... That criteria, long long time ago, we were also negotiated Maastricht criteria fulfillment, i don't know still turkey fulfills or not ? After 50 year of europe adventure :)

Citizen
11-28-2013, 04:54 PM
He he... That criteria, long long time ago, we were also negotiated Maastricht criteria fulfillment, i don't know still turkey fulfills or not ? After 50 year of europe adventure :)
There is a table in that link, most you dont now.


I like how they say 'there's widespread enthusiam' and then forget that the government aren't the only people living in the country.

I can understand why they want to distance themselves from Russia, but they'd be better off trying to distance themselves from both.

Amen to that man!

Hercus Monte
11-28-2013, 04:54 PM
I like how they say 'there's widespread enthusiam' and then forget that the government aren't the only people living in the country.

I can understand why they want to distance themselves from Russia, but they'd be better off trying to distance themselves from both.
I disagree, we're transit countries and our currencies are already pegged to the euro, it makes sense for us to adopt it.(IMHO)

Citizen
11-28-2013, 06:34 PM
I disagree, we're transit countries and our currencies are already pegged to the euro, it makes sense for us to adopt it.(IMHO)

Really, how does it make sense? They are pegged because thats what Eurosajuz wants, it can be still unpegged whenever the central bank decides to stop holding the exchange rate pegged. At least for Lithuania that is, we are already lost.

Hercus Monte
11-29-2013, 02:37 PM
Really, how does it make sense?
we're transit countries, having a stable currency is useful for countries with high export.


stop holding the exchange rate pegged. At least for Lithuania that is, we are already lost.
we're about 10 years late to not adopt the euro, we spend over 10 years polishing our economy to adopt the euro. After all that effort you really want to scrap the idea?



Really, how does it make sense? They are pegged because thats what Eurosajuz wants, it can be still unpegged whenever the central bank decides to stop holding the exchange rate pegged. At least for Lithuania that is, we are already lost.

if this ware 2002 I would agree, we were shit at managing our finances (I'm guessing Latvia was too) so we pegged them to the euro, if we hadn't done that we would have learned how to manage them by now. I'm certainty not willing to drop over 10 years of work and start all over again for silly populism.

Really, how does it make sense? They are pegged because thats what Eurosajuz wants, it can be still unpegged whenever the central bank decides to stop holding the exchange rate pegged. At least for Lithuania that is, we are already lost.what?

Citizen
11-29-2013, 07:31 PM
we're transit countries, having a stable currency is useful for countries with high export.
You do understand that Baltics have a negative trade balance? We import more than we export actually. And floating currency helps exports. If there are problems in economy the value of national money falls making everything cheaper for foreigners, this is what Japan does a lot and China. USA has even accused China of bad trade practice by keeping its money so undervalued it outcompetes USA.



we're about 10 years late to not adopt the euro, we spend over 10 years polishing our economy to adopt the euro. After all that effort you really want to scrap the idea?
Scrap what, what has changed in last 10 years?




if this ware 2002 I would agree, we were shit at managing our finances (I'm guessing Latvia was too) so we pegged them to the euro, if we hadn't done that we would have learned how to manage them by now. I'm certainty not willing to drop over 10 years of work and start all over again for silly populism.

I think its populism to promise that euro will bring prosperity to poor nations, eased trade barriers are good if the development level of countries is similar. Putting Latvia or Estonia in eurozone means its business will have to compete with giants of western Europe. Thats like putting your high school basketball team to compete with the national team. If you dont believe me just look around, Scandinavian banks and shopping chanes have taken over everything, guess where the profits go?

Äike
11-30-2013, 04:57 PM
You do understand thats the so called bruto salary? Bruto meaning you have to pay taxes from it and you get less in the end. In any case, its a slaves money, if I had to live on 930 euros a month I could not afford half of what I get. I do have to admit that majority of Latvians make something like that or even less. So I agree to you on one point, Latvia is pretty shit place to live, but if you think 930 euros is good money, especially, before taxes, you havent really lived well.

You're a Latvian, you have probably even seen 930 euros. I don't believe that you earn over it.




My god, you are so full of yourself with all the Nordic crap. News flash for you buddy, nobody in so called Nordic states considers you Nordic. ;) Its a pretty big joke amongst quit a few Swedes and Danes I know. Ive been to Tallinn a lot, people living in the same old soviet apartment blocks with trams probably made in 80's and thats your capital. And the country side being even more worse. Not saying Latvia is better, Latvia is shit place to live too, Im saying its the same shit here as its there. The only thing thats worse in Latvia is the road quality.

Now answer me this how, does Bulgaria fulfill all the magic Maastricht criteria and still is the Europes poorest state?

Interestingly, out of all the people, Latvians think the most that the Estonians are Nordic people. A half-Latvian, half-Estonian professor from Tartu university made a big study to find out the stereotypes of Estonians and Latvians towards each other.

You know that me and all other Estonians are Nordic people of Finnic heritage. Your post is just envious butthurt. Be proud that you're Baltic and Eastern-European, don't scorn your heritage.

Citizen
11-30-2013, 07:04 PM
You're a Latvian, you have probably even seen 930 euros. I don't believe that you earn over it.
I haven't worked a full time job ever in my 26 years of life. I did had an ERASMUS scholarship for a year which with additional benefits was around 800 euros so I know 930 euros is a small money even if you want to live alone and well, if you want to have a car, buy a house and have many kids then its impossible. My mother makes around 950 Lats after taxes (+bonuses, health insurance, paid phone bills) so that's around 1300 euros a month excluding the additional stuff. If Latvia is a poor country doesn't mean everyone is poor. Also the after taxes mean salary in Estonia is ~740 euros, its on wikipedia with a reference to your own statistic agency so dont bullshit me about 930 which is bruto, in Latvia it is 500 euros on hand, given the fact that Latvia is incredibly corrupt state and tax avoidance is norm of life, the real income is a lot closer to 700 euros. My personal guess would be 650 euros on hand, including the unofficial payments. So get off your high house, we are all in the same shit.



Interestingly, out of all the people, Latvians think the most that the Estonians are Nordic people. A half-Latvian, half-Estonian professor from Tartu university made a big study to find out the stereotypes of Estonians and Latvians towards each other.
I have no stereotypes, we are all Baltic for historical reasons being part of Russian Empire, gaining independence after ww1 just to be occupied by USSR and then gaining independence again.



You know that me and all other Estonians are Nordic people of Finnic heritage. Your post is just envious butthurt. Be proud that you're Baltic and Eastern-European, don't scorn your heritage.
Finnic heritage is not the same as Nordic. Chile is not an European country while it has Spanish heritage. Remember that during the interwar period Finland was ofter referred to as Baltic state. Also Eastern European heritage is just being part of USSR or Warsaw pact, when Europe was basically divided in two parts down the Berlin wall. For example - Poland is technically in Central Europe. Eastern European heritage is visible in Estonia too, high poverty, low salaries, emigration to Western Europe, Soviet apartment blocks and other architecture, unequality meaning small % of GDP taxed, most taxes put on workforce, no progressive taxation system, homophobia. Im not butthurt, at least not about Estonia, Im butthurt about our politicians making the same mistakes you did, using the same idiotic arguments, particulary with euro. And we have almost the same heritage apart from the fact that you speak Finnic language, we both have similar history in Russian Empire and USSR, both are mostly Lutheran while a lot of people are atheist or pagan. The folk festivals, midsummer celebrations with bonefires, nature and cuisine is almost identical.

Äike
11-30-2013, 07:16 PM
I haven't worked a full time job ever in my 26 years of life. I did had an ERASMUS scholarship for a year which with additional benefits was around 800 euros so I know 930 euros is a small money even if you want to live alone and well, if you want to have a car, buy a house and have many kids then its impossible. My mother makes around 950 Lats after taxes (+bonuses, health insurance, paid phone bills) so that's around 1300 euros a month excluding the additional stuff. If Latvia is a poor country doesn't mean everyone is poor. Also the after taxes mean salary in Estonia is ~740 euros, its on wikipedia with a reference to your own statistic agency so dont bullshit me about 930 which is bruto, in Latvia it is 500 euros on hand, given the fact that Latvia is incredibly corrupt state and tax avoidance is norm of life, the real income is a lot closer to 700 euros. My personal guess would be 650 euros on hand, including the unofficial payments. So get off your high house, we are all in the same shit.

Corruption is one of the reasons why your country and Latvian wages are about 30% lower than ours.



I have no stereotypes, we are all Baltic for historical reasons being part of Russian Empire, gaining independence after ww1 just to be occupied by USSR and then gaining independence again.


Finnic heritage is not the same as Nordic. Chile is not an European country while it has Spanish heritage. Remember that during the interwar period Finland was ofter referred to as Baltic state. Also Eastern European heritage is just being part of USSR or Warsaw pact, when Europe was basically divided in two parts down the Berlin wall. For example - Poland is technically in Central Europe.

Even if Estonia and Finland have had historical similarities with getting independence and all that, we are not like you, Balts.


Eastern European heritage is visible in Estonia too, high poverty,

High poverty? lol what?


low salaries

Still considerably higher than in Latvia.


emigration to Western Europe

Here's a newsflash for you. Over 50%, that means the majority, of people who emigrate from Estonia are actually Russians, Ukrainians etc. In Latvia, also Latvians emigrate a lot, but over here, most of them are Russians who leave.


Soviet apartment blocks and other architecture

Cool, I have never lived in one.


unequality meaning small % of GDP taxed most taxes put on workforce, no progressive taxation system

Progressive taxation sucks, it's a leftist idea.


homophobia

Huh? Not really. I personally have 2 lesbian friends, who live together and everyone are completely ok with that, no one has a problem with it. I'm just a bit pissed that they won't let me watch :D


Im not butthurt, at least not about Estonia, Im butthurt about our politicians making the same mistakes you did

Mistakes that we did? If your politicians did half as much as ours do, you wouldn't be so behind from Estonia and Lithuania.


using the same idiotic arguments, particulary with euro

The euro is good.


And we have almost the same heritage apart from the fact that you speak Finnic language, we both have similar history in Russian Empire and USSR, both are mostly Lutheran while a lot of people are atheist or pagan. The folk festivals, midsummer celebrations with bonefires, nature and cuisine is almost identical.

Yeah, too bad that you have forsaken your Finnic roots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_countries#Latvia

Latvia's Finnic heritage and the Livs are brought out when talking about Latvia's ties with the Nordic countries. Being Finnic is a strong part of being Nordic. The Nordic people are composed of the Scandinavians/Northern-Germanics and the Finnics, Estonians and the Finns.

Styggnacke
11-30-2013, 07:25 PM
Average monthly brutto income in the Balto-Nordic region
Denmark: 5000 euro
Norway: 4340 euro
Sweden: 3220 euro
Finland: 3190 euro
-
-
-
-
eSStonia: 940 euro
Latvia: 720 euro
Lithuania: 680 euro

Estonia is, undoubtedly, a Baltic country in terms of economy.

Äike
11-30-2013, 07:34 PM
Average monthly brutto income in the Balto-Nordic region
Denmark: 5000 euro
Norway: 4340 euro
Sweden: 3220 euro
Finland: 3190 euro
-
-
-
-
eSStonia: 940 euro
Latvia: 720 euro
Lithuania: 680 euro

Estonia is, undoubtedly, a Baltic country in terms of economy.

It's the Russian immigrants, doing 300-euro toilet cleaning jobs. I earn more than you do.

sevruk
11-30-2013, 07:43 PM
It's the Russian immigrants, doing 300-euro toilet cleaning jobs. I earn more than you do.

dude just admit that you are shithole compared with Nordic.

Styggnacke
11-30-2013, 07:43 PM
It's the Russian immigrants, doing 300-euro toilet cleaning jobs. I earn more than you do.
So the Latvians earn less because they're corrupt Balts, but Estonians earn less because of the Russian minority? :D You know what, Karl, there are actually more Russians in Latvia! So they can't use the same shitty excuse to blame for their low salary? Oh, the double standards. :D

And no, you don't earn more than me. I told my salary first, and then you said a higher number just so you wouldn't feel ashamed. :/

Citizen
11-30-2013, 07:52 PM
Corruption is one of the reasons why your country and Latvian wages are about 30% lower than ours.
No, its just a reason of some official statistics to be off. Again, not stating that this means that Latvia is super rich or boog place to be born, cuz its not. Its a pretty shitty place for 80% of people here.



Even if Estonia and Finland have had historical similarities with getting independence and all that, we are not like you, Balts.
And what makes you say that, last time I checked you are Lutheran and have almost the same pagan dieties, festivals, singing events, nature, cuisine. The only difference is language group. I have to say that culturally, as a Latvian, I feel closer to a Finnic nation of Estonia than to the Baltic speaking Lithuania, which to me seems like a small Baltic speaking Poland with the extreme Catholicism and quit different, more Polish, mentality. Do you feel culturally more closer to Hungary as a Finno-Ugric speaking country than to Latvia which has same Finnic heritage but a different language?


High poverty? lol what?
So the people who make 740 euros and have to feed an entire family are not poor?



Still considerably higher than in Latvia.
Could be true but hard to say given the fact that half of people I know get additional 100 - 200 euros under the table, sometimes even more if they just take the minimal salary want want like 500 off taxes. That distorts the statistics. The minimal salary is the same as in Estonia btw.



Here's a newsflash for you. Over 50%, that means the majority, of people who emigrate from Estonia are actually Russians, Ukrainians etc. In Latvia, also Latvians emigrate a lot, but over here, most of them are Russians who leave.
You have like 32% of Russians, given the fact that some are just hostile to Estonia, it makes sense that a lot more Russians leave than Estonians, still quit a lot of Estonians leave too. In Latvia its actually the same, we have 40% of Russians and 50% of those who emigrate are Russians. If you dont believe me I can sind the statistics.



Cool, I have never lived in one.
So the fact that you never lived in a soviet apartment block means there are no such architecture in Estonia? Thats like if some Brazilian would say: "Favelas (shanty town in Latin America), cool never lived in one" The fact that you dont live in one doesnt make the problem go away, same as if Im not utterly poor in Latvia it doesn't mean Latvia is a rich country.



Progressive taxation sucks, it's a leftist idea.
And being Nordic is a pretty leftist thing. Nordics are famous for being economically very left. All Nordic countries have a progressive tax system. The % of taxes taken from GDP is high and social benefits are high. This is opposite in Eastern European mentality, where flat tax is the norm and considered the best approach, progressive tax being called communism and dismissed as leftist pass. This, poverty and homophobia are the 3 things that makes Estonia not Nordic and quit typical Eastern Europe.



Huh? Not really. I personally have 2 lesbian friends, who live together and everyone are completely ok with that, no one has a problem with it. I'm just a bit pissed that they won't let me watch :D
Are they legally able to merry in Estonia? I think not...



Mistakes that we did? If your politicians did half as much as ours do, you wouldn't be so behind from Estonia and Lithuania.
Comparing our development models is like comparing Zambia to Nigeria, Nigeria is 2x richer but they are both dirt poor comparing even to us. Also the big winner is Lithuania, it was the least developed of SSR's during the soviet times and now has the highest GDP per capita, higher than Estonia, Latvia or Russia. Also even from the early 90's Estonia was a bit ahead from Latvia and this proportion hasn't changed much.



The euro is good.
Yes, if you like to bail out other states and get even more foreign business outcompteting your won people.



Yeah, too bad that you have forsaken your Finnic roots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_countries#Latvia

Latvia's Finnic heritage and the Livs are brought out when talking about Latvia's ties with the Nordic countries. Being Finnic is a strong part of being Nordic. The Nordic people are composed of the Scandinavians/Northern-Germanics and the Finnics, Estonians and the Finns.
No, I embrace my Finnic and pagan roots, same as I embrace the the good things brought by Germans and Russians. Not the bad manners and excessive drinking.

Styggnacke
11-30-2013, 07:58 PM
Tallinn's most populated neighbourhood. I guess it doesn't exist, since Karl hasn't lived in it:
http://www.efla2011.com/uploads/images/naod/Lasnamae.jpg

Äike
11-30-2013, 08:02 PM
dude just admit that you are shithole compared with Nordic.

Suck my dick, Russianfag.


So the Latvians earn less because they're corrupt Balts, but Estonians earn less because of the Russian minority? :D You know what, Karl, there are actually more Russians in Latvia! So they can't use the same shitty excuse to blame for their low salary? Oh, the double standards. :D

And no, you don't earn more than me. I told my salary first, and then you said a higher number just so you wouldn't feel ashamed. :/

Estonians have a Nordic work ethic, the Balts have an Eastern-European one. They have said so themselves.


Explaining why Estonians have been less willing to emigrate than their southern neighbours, why they have higher monthly wages and the old age pensions (more than 20 percent higher than in Lithuania) and why Estonia’s GDP is higher than Lithuania’s by 12 percent, Lithuaian sociologist Mindaugas Degutis says religion is the major factor influencing this trend.

He said: “Estonians are Protestants and sociologist Max Weber already a hundred years ago noticed a link between Protestantism and economic development because the followers of this religion believe that they will be redeemed if they are good at work. This could have contributed to the factors that have led to the leadership of the Estonians – a faster and more successful implementation of reforms, the discipline which is characterises the Nordic countries, a political system more focused on pragmatic functioning instead of populist attitudes.”

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?16643-Lithuanian-attributes-Estonia-s-success-to-religion&highlight=Lithuanian

sevruk
11-30-2013, 08:04 PM
Suck my dick, Russianfag.



stop acting as East European, you're Nordic, lol

Äike
11-30-2013, 08:04 PM
Tallinn's most populated neighbourhood. I guess it doesn't exist, since Karl hasn't lived in it:
http://www.efla2011.com/uploads/images/naod/Lasnamae.jpg

Mostly Russians live there, Estonians are a small minority in that city district. We live in nicer places.

The place where I live is like Södermalm in Stockholm.

Styggnacke
11-30-2013, 08:09 PM
When will the populist car thieves stop bringing down the reputation of the pragmatic, super-rich Nordic Estonians? :(

Citizen
11-30-2013, 08:10 PM
It's the Russian immigrants, doing 300-euro toilet cleaning jobs. I earn more than you do.

So if you didnt had 32% of Russians doing toilet jobs your average salary would be 4000 euros? Also why is a toilet job minimal salary in Denmark ~14euro/h but only ~2euros/h in Estonia, is it because Estonia is some kind of a North Korean like state where some part of population is making 4000 euros while others are working their ass off cleaning toilets for 2 euros/h? Even worse, is there a discrimination by ethnicity that forces those Russians to work like that? Im pretty sure there are both Russians doing "toilet jobs" same as there are Latvians and Estonians doing them. I bet that if I go to Rimi or Kaubamaja in Tallinn they are making ~300 euros there and some are ethnic Estonians.

Citizen
11-30-2013, 08:14 PM
Mostly Russians live there, Estonians are a small minority in that city district. We live in nicer places.

The place where I live is like Södermalm in Stockholm.

So you are saying that Estionians are minority in Tallinn and other big cities in Estonia. Also answer my replay about porgressive tax:



Progressive taxation sucks, it's a leftist idea.
And being Nordic is a pretty leftist thing. Nordics are famous for being economically very left. All Nordic countries have a progressive tax system. The % of taxes taken from GDP is high and social benefits are high. This is opposite in Eastern European mentality, where flat tax is the norm and considered the best approach, progressive tax being called communism and dismissed as leftist pass. This, poverty and homophobia are the 3 things that makes Estonia not Nordic and quit typical Eastern Europe.

Äike
11-30-2013, 08:16 PM
No, its just a reason of some official statistics to be off. Again, not stating that this means that Latvia is super rich or boog place to be born, cuz its not. Its a pretty shitty place for 80% of people here.


And what makes you say that, last time I checked you are Lutheran and have almost the same pagan dieties, festivals, singing events, nature, cuisine. The only difference is language group. I have to say that culturally, as a Latvian, I feel closer to a Finnic nation of Estonia than to the Baltic speaking Lithuania, which to me seems like a small Baltic speaking Poland with the extreme Catholicism and quit different, more Polish, mentality. Do you feel culturally more closer to Hungary as a Finno-Ugric speaking country than to Latvia which has same Finnic heritage but a different language?

1. Latvia is 50/50 Lutheran/Catholic

2. The similarities you are talking about do not make us Baltic, it makes you Finnic. Those are the things what you took over from the natives.

3. You're a hypocrite and a demagogue if you bring Hungary up like this. Finno-Ugric = Indo-European. Hungarians are a completely different branch also. How related do you feel towards Greeks? Same logic.


So the people who make 740 euros and have to feed an entire family are not poor?

Both parents work here. 1500 euros combined is enough for that.



Could be true but hard to say given the fact that half of people I know get additional 100 - 200 euros under the table, sometimes even more if they just take the minimal salary want want like 500 off taxes. That distorts the statistics. The minimal salary is the same as in Estonia btw.

Cool, that is typical for Eastern-Europe. Congratulations.



You have like 32% of Russians, given the fact that some are just hostile to Estonia, it makes sense that a lot more Russians leave than Estonians, still quit a lot of Estonians leave too. In Latvia its actually the same, we have 40% of Russians and 50% of those who emigrate are Russians. If you dont believe me I can sind the statistics.

25% Russians. + Estonians emigrate considerably less than Latvians & Lithuanians. The difference is drastic.



So the fact that you never lived in a soviet apartment block means there are no such architecture in Estonia? Thats like if some Brazilian would say: "Favelas (shanty town in Latin America), cool never lived in one" The fact that you dont live in one doesnt make the problem go away, same as if Im not utterly poor in Latvia it doesn't mean Latvia is a rich country.

In places where Estonians live, the Commieblocks are renovated and the neighborhoods are nice.



And being Nordic is a pretty leftist thing. Nordics are famous for being economically very left. All Nordic countries have a progressive tax system. The % of taxes taken from GDP is high and social benefits are high. This is opposite in Eastern European mentality, where flat tax is the norm and considered the best approach, progressive tax being called communism and dismissed as leftist pass. This, poverty and homophobia are the 3 things that makes Estonia not Nordic and quit typical Eastern Europe.

Even our social democratic president has said that socialism wouldn't work here and that the Scandinavian model will collapse at one point being too much of a burden.

Finland is like 99% Finnish, they can have such a model at least for now. Over here, 30% of the population consists of Eastern-European, Slavic immigrants who would rather sit on welfare and spend all their money of vodka and drugs. The welfare money is quite low here, thus they have to do their 300-euro toilet cleaning jobs to get money for vodka.



Are they legally able to merry in Estonia? I think not...

Marriage is a Christian thing, even normal Estonians don't marry that much.



Comparing our development models is like comparing Zambia to Nigeria, Nigeria is 2x richer but they are both dirt poor comparing even to us. Also the big winner is Lithuania, it was the least developed of SSR's during the soviet times and now has the highest GDP per capita, higher than Estonia, Latvia or Russia. Also even from the early 90's Estonia was a bit ahead from Latvia and this proportion hasn't changed much.

Estonia is richer than Lithuania. The current GDP thing, it was done faultily. They took the new population numbers for Latvia and Lithuania while using the outdate (bigger) population for Estonia thus our real GDP per capita is a bit higher, you will see it in the next statistics when they take the new population number.

Even our president and prime minister commented on this.



Yes, if you like to bail out other states and get even more foreign business outcompteting your won people.

You're just envious that we got the euro 3 years before you.



No, I embrace my Finnic and pagan roots, same as I embrace the the good things brought by Germans and Russians. Not the bad manners and excessive drinking.

Cool story, bro.

Äike
11-30-2013, 08:19 PM
When will the populist car thieves stop bringing down the reputation of the pragmatic, super-rich Nordic Estonians? :(

We're not Balto-Slavic Lithuanians, they're the car thieves.

Over 90% of all car thefts in Estonia are done by Lithuanian criminals. We also have a problem with Eastern-European Balto-Slavs abusing the Schengen area and committing crime here. Some people are even advocating that the border control between Estonia and Balto-Slav land (Latvia) should be returned, thus limiting the amount of Baltic criminals who come to our country.


So if you didnt had 32% of Russians doing toilet jobs your average salary would be 4000 euros? Also why is a toilet job minimal salary in Denmark ~14euro/h but only ~2euros/h in Estonia, is it because Estonia is some kind of a North Korean like state where some part of population is making 4000 euros while others are working their ass off cleaning toilets for 2 euros/h?

http://freedomroad.org/askasocialist/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Communism.jpg

1940-1991.

sevruk
11-30-2013, 08:19 PM
Mostly Russians live there, Estonians are a small minority in that city district. We live in nicer places.

The place where I live is like Södermalm in Stockholm.

most Estonians do not live in such houses, it's too good for them.
they live here (built in the period of independence)


http://f.postimees.ee/f/2013/04/07/1677408t54h25c9.jpg

Styggnacke
11-30-2013, 08:20 PM
If a politician said this in Sweden (or any other Nordic country), he would get kicked out of his party immediately: http://www.ibtimes.com/martin-helme-doesnt-want-black-people-estonia-conservative-peoples-party-politician-says-european

I agree with him, the riots in Stockholm were the result of we letting in too many non-Europeans in this country, but still a very un-Nordic thing for a politician to say.

Äike
11-30-2013, 08:22 PM
most Estonians do not live in such houses, it's too good for them.
they live here (built in the period of independence)


http://f.postimees.ee/f/2013/04/07/1677408t54h25c9.jpg

No, Russians live in there too. There's this wooden houses district in Northern-Tallinn that is full of Russian drug addicts and criminals, who live in shitty houses like that, there are a lot fires and stabbings in that region.

Äike
11-30-2013, 08:23 PM
If a politician said this in Sweden (or any other Nordic country), he would get kicked out of his party immediately: http://www.ibtimes.com/martin-helme-doesnt-want-black-people-estonia-conservative-peoples-party-politician-says-european

I agree with him, the riots in Stockholm were the result of we letting in too many non-Europeans in this country, but still a very un-Nordic thing for a politician to say.

There's a reason why his party is not in the parliament and got like 1% of the votes during the local elections. There are fringe parties everywhere, even in Sweden. And those fringe Swedish parties that you have, those don't even exist here.

Styggnacke
11-30-2013, 08:24 PM
Over 90% of all car thefts in Estonia are done by Lithuanian criminals. We also have a problem with Eastern-European Balto-Slavs abusing the Schengen area and committing crime here. Some people are even advocating that the border control between Estonia and Balto-Slav land (Latvia) should be returned, thus limiting the amount of Baltic criminals who come to our country.
Someone has to stop this oppression! :( The Estonians stole the cars from Swedes, and now Lithuanians are taking them from the Estonians. :(

Äike
11-30-2013, 08:25 PM
Someone has to stop this oppression! :( The Estonians stole the cars from Swedes, and now Lithuanians are taking them from the Estonians. :(

Estonians don't steal cars, stop fucking around you nitwit. The average wage for Estonians in Sweden is higher than that of the native Swedes. Estonians in your country are richer than you.

sevruk
11-30-2013, 08:27 PM
No, Russians live in there too. There's this wooden houses district in Northern-Tallinn that is full of Russian drug addicts and criminals, who live in shitty houses like that, there are a lot fires and stabbings in that region.
bla-bla
ugly wooden houses are true Estonian invention.
commieblocks - Russian

Äike
11-30-2013, 08:34 PM
bla-bla
ugly wooden houses are true Estonian invention.
commieblocks - Russian

I live in a renovated/restored 1930's wooden house, 500 meters from the old town. The Estonian regions with wooden houses are very expensive and highly rated with square meter prices being 2-3 times higher than Tallinn's average. The Russian Lasnamäe commieblocks have the cheapest prices because 1) Commieblocks 2) Russians 3) =Crime, drugs, alcoholics, stabbings, murders.

Russians live in the shitty part of Northern-Tallinn in wooden houses like this:

http://fotoklubi.tipikas.ee/pildid/kopli/kopli_12.jpg

You can see some Estonians exploring the Russian ghetto.

***

Estonians live in wooden houses like this:

http://www.uusmaa.ee/newsletter/gfx_upload/156790.jpg

Styggnacke
11-30-2013, 08:36 PM
Estonians don't steal cars, stop fucking around you nitwit.
Go and get educated:
http://www.vibilagare.se/reportage/organiserad-brottslighet-stjal-bilar-for-miljarder-29868

The average wage for Estonians in Sweden is higher than that of the native Swedes. Estonians in your country are richer than you.
1) How would you possibly know that? There is no ethnic registration here. You can't get those statistics in Sweden.
2) Estonians in Sweden aren't your people. It's like if I would brag about Swedish Americans earning more than average Americans (I don't even know if they do). Totally ridiculous.
3) Like I have explained, it was generally educated and rich Estonians that fled to Sweden. If they would have been representative for the whole population, you had by average earned less than Swedes (now we are assuming that you're actually right about this, which I doubt you are).

Citizen
11-30-2013, 08:41 PM
1. Latvia is 50/50 Lutheran/Catholic

2. The similarities you are talking about do not make us Baltic, it makes you Finnic. Those are the things what you took over from the natives.

3. You're a hypocrite and a demagogue if you bring Hungary up like this. Finno-Ugric = Indo-European. Hungarians are a completely different branch also. How related do you feel towards Greeks? Same logic.
1. I am technically Lutheran, while I don't believe in god, I was raised Lutheran. So I speak for myself and people in Riga and Western Latvia.
2.As I said, Baltic therm is given to 3 states at Baltic sea, that share a common history Russian Empire and USSR. Does the fact that Baltic sea is called Baltic means that Baltic sea is not part of Finnic heritage? Baltic is just a name. If I had to classify Estonia or Latvia, they are both Eastern European.


Both parents work here. 1500 euros combined is enough for that.
So you can buy a new car and a house or new flat while having 2 children, traveling, enjoying cultural events, buying new iPhones and iPads for the family on 1500 a month. At best you would have a 10 years old car and a renovated soviet block flat. Something that is considered poor in Nordic countries. Do the math..



Cool, that is typical for Eastern-Europe. Congratulations.
Yes, I agree, always said Latvia was a typical Eastern European shithole.



25% Russians. + Estonians emigrate considerably less than Latvians & Lithuanians. The difference is drastic.
Hardly if 50% of people who leave your country are Estonians and 50% Latvians are leaving Latvia.



In places where Estonians live, the Commieblocks are renovated and the neighborhoods are nice.

Yes, which make them not part of Eastern Europe how? Its just the heritage, like marshutkas or Shashlik.



Even our social democratic president has said that socialism wouldn't work here and that the Scandinavian model will collapse at one point being too much of a burden.

So basically your president is smarter than all the Nordic economists and politicians who seem to fallow this flawed model? Why does he even brand himself a socialist then, what socialist policies he has implemented then? That is typical neoliberal Eastern European crap he speaks. Why would it happen, how would that system break exactly? Guess who also said that, our not so socialist senile president Andris Bērziņš, he said exactly the same words, I can find the article if you like. Also if Nordics are so wrong on the whole economic model, why do you want to be like them? They are doomed to fail, you said it yourself, why fallow them?



Finland is like 99% Finnish, they can have such a model at least for now. Over here, 30% of the population consists of Eastern-European, Slavic immigrants who would rather sit on welfare and spend all their money of vodka and drugs. The welfare money is quite low here, thus they have to do their 300-euro toilet cleaning jobs to get money for vodka.

So 32% of your population, all the Russians do 300 euro jobs, are addicts or alcoholics? Not to dispute that there are alcoholics in Russia but why doesnt 100% of Russians in russia are drug addicts or alcoholics doing 300 euro toilet jobs? Maybe Estonia is really fucked up place that truly discriminates Russians, even those who speak Estonian?



Marriage is a Christian thing, even normal Estonians don't marry that much.

So can gay couples have civil unions recognized by law in Estonia? I think not..



Estonia is richer than Lithuania. The current GDP thing, it was done faultily. They took the new population numbers for Latvia and Lithuania while using the outdate (bigger) population for Estonia thus our real GDP per capita is a bit higher, you will see it in the next statistics when they take the new population number.

Even our president and prime minister commented on this.

So you admit that your population is declining faster than in Latvia?



You're just envious that we got the euro 3 years before you.

No, I don't want your shitty euro. Thats the last thing I want here after AIDS...



Cool story, bro.

No, its real story, I embrace Nordic/Russian/German/Latvian heritage. Being Latvian is being with mixed heritage actually.

sevruk
11-30-2013, 08:41 PM
I live in a renovated/restored 1930's wooden house, 500 meters from the old town. The Estonian regions with wooden houses are very expensive and highly rated with square meter prices being 2-3 times higher than Tallinn's average. The Russian Lasnamäe commieblocks have the cheapest prices because 1) Commieblocks 2) Russians 3) =Crime, drugs, alcoholics, stabbings, murders.

Russians live in the shitty part of Northern-Tallinn in wooden houses like this:

http://fotoklubi.tipikas.ee/pildid/kopli/kopli_12.jpg

You can see some Estonians exploring the Russian ghetto.

***

Estonians live in wooden houses like this:

http://www.uusmaa.ee/newsletter/gfx_upload/156790.jpg

you live in a shit wooden buildings. And you are more drug addicts and drunks than Russians.

Äike
11-30-2013, 08:46 PM
Go and get educated:
http://www.vibilagare.se/reportage/organiserad-brottslighet-stjal-bilar-for-miljarder-29868

Typical yellow Swedish media.

1. They are rarely shipped to Estonia.
2. If they are, it's just Lithuanian criminals transporting the cars through Estonia to Lithuania. Estonians don't have anything to do with them.

Don't be a demagogue.


1) How would you possibly know that? There is no ethnic registration here. You can't get those statistics in Sweden.
2) Estonians in Sweden aren't your people. It's like if I would brag about Swedish Americans earning more than average Americans (I don't even know if they do). Totally ridiculous.
3) Like I have explained, it was generally educated and rich Estonians that fled to Sweden. If they would have been representative for the whole population, you had by average earned less than Swedes (now we are assuming that you're actually right about this, which I doubt you are).

All Estonians from all backgrounds fled the country, mostly coastal people and islanders, though. It's like all the Estonian-Swedes leaving, it has nothing to do with them being Swedish, it's all about the fact that all of them lived on islands and the coast. Estonians who lived on islands and the coast also fled in massive numbers.

sevruk
11-30-2013, 08:48 PM
Latvia and Estonia have the same number of Russian. But why Estonia drunk so much?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39757991/123.png

Obviously without Russian you would have won first place

Äike
11-30-2013, 08:49 PM
you live in a shit wooden buildings. And you are more drug addicts and drunks than Russians.

You're going back into my ignore list, you're retarded.

This is your distant relative who moved to Estonia, enjoying drugs in a Northern-Tallinn Russian ghetto:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AyZH49xtWg

Styggnacke
11-30-2013, 08:50 PM
Typical yellow Swedish media.
Yeah, I think all of us can agree that your media is more yellow.

Don't be a demagogue.
You're the defintion of a demagogue.

All Estonians from all backgrounds fled the country, mostly coastal people and islanders, though. It's like all the Estonian-Swedes leaving, it has nothing to do with them being Swedish, it's all about the fact that all of them lived on islands and the coast. Estonians who lived on islands and the coast also fled in massive numbers.
Respond to this first:
"1) How would you possibly know that? There is no ethnic registration here. You can't get those statistics in Sweden."

Äike
11-30-2013, 08:51 PM
Latvia and Estonia have the same number of Russian. But why Estonia drunk so much?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39757991/123.png

Obviously without Russian you would have won first place

About 40% of all alcohol bought in Estonia is bought by Finnish tourists and that's hard to put into statistics, thus the number.

http://g3.nh.ee/images/pix/900x585/acb567e6/922e0525e1efa2d32e-66915704.jpg

Äike
11-30-2013, 08:52 PM
Yeah, I think all of us can agree that your media is more yellow.

Nope. There was a story about the Swedish media labeling Estonians as car thieves because Balto-Slavic niggers ship their stolen cars through Estonia. Your media doesn't check facts.


You're the defintion of a demagogue.

Respond to this first:
"1) How would you possibly know that? There is no ethnic registration here. You can't get those statistics in Sweden."

Those statistics don't exist anymore, but did in the past.

sevruk
11-30-2013, 08:53 PM
This is your distant relative who moved to Estonia, enjoying drugs in a Northern-Tallinn Russian ghetto:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AyZH49xtWg

some dark Estonian drug addict?

Citizen
11-30-2013, 08:54 PM
Latvia and Estonia have the same number of Russian. But why Estonia drunk so much?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39757991/123.png

Obviously without Russian you would have won first place

Latvia has 10% more Russians but we drink less, we also have Finnish and Swedish tourists who come here and by alcohol in boxes.

Äike
11-30-2013, 08:56 PM
some dark Estonian drug addict?

Russian. There's a HIV epidemic in Estonia, because Russians are like niggers in America. They do a lot of drugs and get HIV by sharing needles. 94% of all HIV-sick people in Estonia are ethnic Russians. Only 5% are Estonians.

Come and get your druggie brothers and take them back to Russia.

http://assets.shitbrix.com/hashed_silo_content/6da/89a/cf0/resized/russians-version-of-niggers-in-estonia-russians-version-of-niggers-in-estonia-53afb9.jpg

sevruk
11-30-2013, 08:56 PM
About 40% of all alcohol bought in Estonia is bought by Finnish tourists and that's hard to put into statistics, thus the number.

http://g3.nh.ee/images/pix/900x585/acb567e6/922e0525e1efa2d32e-66915704.jpg

Are you an idiot? it says consumption. not buying

Äike
11-30-2013, 08:57 PM
Latvia has 10% more Russians but we drink less, we also have Finnish and Swedish tourists who come here and by alcohol in boxes.

Dude, are you being serious? Estonia gets like 100 times more Finnish tourists than Latvia. It's like I live in Southern-Helsinki, I see Finns literally every single day here. I hear Finnish even more than I hear Russian.

Äike
11-30-2013, 08:58 PM
Are you an idiot? it says consumption. not buying

You're completely braindead and you will be in my ignore list from now on. I'm wasting my time replying to your 70 IQ posts.

sevruk
11-30-2013, 08:59 PM
Russian. There's a HIV epidemic in Estonia, because Russians are like niggers in America. They do a lot of drugs and get HIV by sharing needles. 94% of all HIV-sick people in Estonia are ethnic Russians. Only 5% are Estonians.

Come and get your druggie brothers and take them back to Russia.

http://assets.shitbrix.com/hashed_silo_content/6da/89a/cf0/resized/russians-version-of-niggers-in-estonia-russians-version-of-niggers-in-estonia-53afb9.jpg
Why do not you add me to the ignore list?
You post videos addicts Estonians and say that they are Russian, lol

Citizen
11-30-2013, 09:02 PM
Dude, are you being serious? Estonia gets like 100 times more Finnish tourists than Latvia. It's like I live in Southern-Helsinki, I see Finns literally every single day here. I hear Finnish even more than I hear Russian.
And there are practically no Latvians in bars in Riga only Nordic people...
Answer me this:


Even our social democratic president has said that socialism wouldn't work here and that the Scandinavian model will collapse at one point being too much of a burden.

So basically your president is smarter than all the Nordic economists and politicians who seem to fallow this flawed model? Why does he even brand himself a socialist then, what socialist policies he has implemented then? That is typical neoliberal Eastern European crap he speaks. Why would it happen, how would that system break exactly? Guess who also said that, our not so socialist senile president Andris Bērziņš, he said exactly the same words, I can find the article if you like. Also if Nordics are so wrong on the whole economic model, why do you want to be like them? They are doomed to fail, you said it yourself, why fallow them?




25% Russians. + Estonians emigrate considerably less than Latvians & Lithuanians. The difference is drastic.
Hardly if 50% of people who leave your country are Estonians and 50% Latvians are leaving Latvia.



Both parents work here. 1500 euros combined is enough for that.
So you can buy a new car and a house or new flat while having 2 children, traveling, enjoying cultural events, buying new iPhones and iPads for the family on 1500 a month. At best you would have a 10 years old car and a renovated soviet block flat. Something that is considered poor in Nordic countries. Do the math..

Not a Cop
11-30-2013, 09:03 PM
It's the Russian immigrants, doing 300-euro toilet cleaning jobs. I earn more than you do.

Why would anyone immigrate to Estonia to do the 300-euro job if average salary in Russia is two times bigger?

Citizen
11-30-2013, 09:05 PM
Why do not you add me to the ignore list?
You post videos addicts Estonians and say that they are Russian, lol

If he lived in a Nordic country he would be arrested for racism and hate crim using word nigger and branding all russians as drug addicts and alcoholics.

Styggnacke
11-30-2013, 09:05 PM
Nope. There was a story about the Swedish media labeling Estonians as car thieves because Balto-Slavic niggers ship their stolen cars through Estonia. Your media doesn't check facts.
If I actually could read in Estonian, I could probably conclude that your newspapers were more into yellow journalism. Especially when they write about Russia.

Those statistics don't exist anymore, but did in the past.
They have never existed, at least not officially.

Äike
11-30-2013, 09:11 PM
And there are practically no Latvians in bars in Riga only Nordic people...
Answer me this:

BS, Estonians don't go to Riga that much.



So basically your president is smarter than all the Nordic economists and politicians who seem to fallow this flawed model? Why does he even brand himself a socialist then, what socialist policies he has implemented then? That is typical neoliberal Eastern European crap he speaks. Why would it happen, how would that system break exactly? Guess who also said that, our not so socialist senile president Andris Bērziņš, he said exactly the same words, I can find the article if you like. Also if Nordics are so wrong on the whole economic model, why do you want to be like them? They are doomed to fail, you said it yourself, why fallow them?


He is born in Sweden and was a social democrat before becoming president, now he is serving his 2nd term.


Hardly if 50% of people who leave your country are Estonians and 50% Latvians are leaving Latvia.

You're retarded. If 1000 people leave and 50% of them are Estonian then that's a lot less than 10 000 people leaving and 50% of them being Latvian. Just an example. The emigration numbers are a lot smaller here. Like % of inhabitants emigrating.



So you can buy a new car and a house or new flat while having 2 children, traveling, enjoying cultural events, buying new iPhones and iPads for the family on 1500 a month. At best you would have a 10 years old car and a renovated soviet block flat. Something that is considered poor in Nordic countries. Do the math..

Damn, not everyone need a house, a brand new car, travel, iPhones and all that. I have a lot of money but I don't have an iPad is pointless. I have a MacBook Pro + a big Samsung S3, an iPad is unnecessary.


If I actually could read in Estonian, I could probably conclude that your newspapers were more into yellow journalism. Especially when they write about Russia.

They have never existed, at least not officially.

No. There are some yellow newspapers, but overall, the Swedish media is more yellow and lower quality/doesn't check facts.

Citizen
11-30-2013, 09:24 PM
He is born in Sweden and was a social democrat before becoming president, now he is serving his 2nd term.
You didnt answed any points I raised so I ask again :)



Even our social democratic president has said that socialism wouldn't work here and that the Scandinavian model will collapse at one point being too much of a burden.

So basically your president is smarter than all the Nordic economists and politicians who seem to fallow this flawed model? Why does he even brand himself a socialist then, what socialist policies he has implemented then? That is typical neoliberal Eastern European crap he speaks. Why would it happen, how would that system break exactly? Guess who also said that, our not so socialist senile president Andris Bērziņš, he said exactly the same words, I can find the article if you like. Also if Nordics are so wrong on the whole economic model, why do you want to be like them? They are doomed to fail, you said it yourself, why fallow them?



You're retarded. If 1000 people leave and 50% of them are Estonian then that's a lot less than 10 000 people leaving and 50% of them being Latvian. Just an example. The emigration numbers are a lot smaller here. Like % of inhabitants emigrating.

Thank you for ad hominem, thats real Nordic style. :D Also you missed the poin because you said most of people leaving Latvia are Latvians which is not true given the fact that we have 10% more Russians. Id say the proportion of people leaving Latvia and being Russian is the same as in Estonia.



Damn, not everyone need a house, a brand new car, travel, iPhones and all that. I have a lot of money but I don't have an iPad is pointless. I have a MacBook Pro + a big Samsung S3, an iPad is unnecessary.
And not everyone needs a hair dresser, new clothes, restaurants and cinema. Point is with 1500 a month for a family with 2 kids you are living damn poor for Nordic standard of 6000 - 8000 for a family. Especially given their social welfare you dont provide.

Not a Cop
11-30-2013, 09:32 PM
Damn, not everyone need a house, a brand new car, travel, iPhones and all that. I have a lot of money but I don't have an iPad is pointless. I have a MacBook Pro + a big Samsung S3, an iPad is unnecessary.


Dunno about ipad, but last time i saw your pic you were wearing dirtpoor H&M\Zara\Topman coat and clearly were shiver with cold in Saint-Petersburg.

I think that having an ability to wear propper clothes is nessesary in such a baltic climate.

Äike
11-30-2013, 09:39 PM
You didnt answed any points I raised so I ask again :)



So basically your president is smarter than all the Nordic economists and politicians who seem to fallow this flawed model? Why does he even brand himself a socialist then, what socialist policies he has implemented then? That is typical neoliberal Eastern European crap he speaks. Why would it happen, how would that system break exactly? Guess who also said that, our not so socialist senile president Andris Bērziņš, he said exactly the same words, I can find the article if you like. Also if Nordics are so wrong on the whole economic model, why do you want to be like them? They are doomed to fail, you said it yourself, why fallow them?



Thank you for ad hominem, thats real Nordic style. :D Also you missed the poin because you said most of people leaving Latvia are Latvians which is not true given the fact that we have 10% more Russians. Id say the proportion of people leaving Latvia and being Russian is the same as in Estonia.

There's a reason why right-wing governments are currently ruling Finland and Sweden.



And not everyone needs a hair dresser, new clothes, restaurants and cinema. Point is with 1500 a month for a family with 2 kids you are living damn poor for Nordic standard of 6000 - 8000 for a family. Especially given their social welfare you dont provide.

I don't need a damn cinema, I have a 1000-euro 46-inch Samsung Full-HD TV at home, it even has 3D.

Have you ever lived alone? You know nothing about life.

Äike
11-30-2013, 09:41 PM
Dunno about ipad, but last time i saw your pic you were wearing dirtpoor H&M\Zara\Topman coat and clearly were shiver with cold in Saint-Petersburg.

I think that having an ability to wear propper clothes is nessesary in such a baltic climate.

What the fuck? My clothes were worth more than the average Russian gets money in a month.

Expensive designer jeans, 140 euro Zara blazer, expensive shoes and expensive Mosaic autumn coat + cheap 450 ruble Russian Commie hat that I bought from some tourist place.

You're so poor that I'm amazed that you have access to a computer and internet.

Citizen
11-30-2013, 09:48 PM
There's a reason why right-wing governments are currently ruling Finland and Sweden.
Again you are not adressing the questions I asked, also those "right wing" parties are hardly right wing in Baltics they would be considered radical socialist or even communist, given the fact that they are ok with progressive tax and welfare state just want to limit immigration and promote christian values.
So I ask again.


Even our social democratic president has said that socialism wouldn't work here and that the Scandinavian model will collapse at one point being too much of a burden.

So basically your president is smarter than all the Nordic economists and politicians who seem to fallow this flawed model? Why does he even brand himself a socialist then, what socialist policies he has implemented then? That is typical neoliberal Eastern European crap he speaks. Why would it happen, how would that system break exactly? Guess who also said that, our not so socialist senile president Andris Bērziņš, he said exactly the same words, I can find the article if you like. Also if Nordics are so wrong on the whole economic model, why do you want to be like them? They are doomed to fail, you said it yourself, why fallow them?



I don't need a damn cinema, I have a 1000-euro 46-inch Samsung Full-HD TV at home, it even has 3D.
Well, I have a big tv at home too, I still go to cinema, its a social event, you are deliberately missing the point that in Nordics average income for a family is 6000 - 8000 euros while you have only 1500 which is basically a minimal salary a toilet cleaner earns in Norway. Thats hardly Nordic.



Have you ever lived alone? You know nothing about life.
Yes, as I said, I lived a year abroad in ERASMUS also been on other exchange programms for smaller periods.

Not a Cop
11-30-2013, 09:52 PM
What the fuck? My clothes were worth more than the average Russian gets money in a month.

Expensive designer jeans, 140 euro Zara blazer, expensive shoes and expensive Mosaic autumn coat + cheap 450 ruble Russian Commie hat that I bought from some tourist place.

You're so poor that I'm amazed that you have access to a computer and internet.

So you thrown out 140 euros, my congratulations, also what the fuck you mean under disinger jeans?

Äike
11-30-2013, 09:55 PM
Again you are not adressing the questions I asked, also those "right wing" parties are hardly right wing in Baltics they would be considered radical socialist or even communist, given the fact that they are ok with progressive tax and welfare state just want to limit immigration and promote christian values.
So I ask again.


So basically your president is smarter than all the Nordic economists and politicians who seem to fallow this flawed model? Why does he even brand himself a socialist then, what socialist policies he has implemented then? That is typical neoliberal Eastern European crap he speaks. Why would it happen, how would that system break exactly? Guess who also said that, our not so socialist senile president Andris Bērziņš, he said exactly the same words, I can find the article if you like. Also if Nordics are so wrong on the whole economic model, why do you want to be like them? They are doomed to fail, you said it yourself, why fallow them?


Well, I have a big tv at home too, I still go to cinema, its a social event, you are deliberately missing the point that in Nordics average income for a family is 6000 - 8000 euros while you have only 1500 which is basically a minimal salary a toilet cleaner earns in Norway. Thats hardly Nordic.


Yes, as I said, I lived a year abroad in ERASMUS also been on other exchange programms for smaller periods.

Fuck off Slav.


So you thrown out 140 euros, my congratulations, also what the fuck you mean under disinger jeans?

If you wouldn't be a poor Russian living in a Commieblock, you would know.

Aunt Hilda
11-30-2013, 09:57 PM
Fuck off Slav.

WOW
SUCH INSPIRE
MANY LOGIC
MUCH PASSION

http://discoverygc.com/wiki/images/thumb/3/34/Doge_(1).jpg/264px-Doge_(1).jpg

Styggnacke
11-30-2013, 09:58 PM
Fuck off Slav.
Just respond to him, or admit that he's right.

Not a Cop
11-30-2013, 09:58 PM
Fuck off Slav.



If you wouldn't be a poor Russian living in a Commieblock, you would know.

Well i do'nt live in a Commieblock - i live in a Stalinblock, secondly i'm pretty shure i'm richer than you if you consider a life per 1500 euros acceptable for a family of four, and the last thing i did'nt understand what does the man, who throwes out 140 euros on Zara blazer, means under desinger jeans.

Citizen
11-30-2013, 10:01 PM
Fuck off Slav.


Can't see what I have to do with Slavic people. I barely speak Russian and I come from Baltic/Livonian background. So I ask again.


There's a reason why right-wing governments are currently ruling Finland and Sweden.
Again you are not adressing the questions I asked, also those "right wing" parties are hardly right wing in Baltics they would be considered radical socialist or even communist, given the fact that they are ok with progressive tax and welfare state just want to limit immigration and promote christian values.
So I ask again.


Even our social democratic president has said that socialism wouldn't work here and that the Scandinavian model will collapse at one point being too much of a burden.

So basically your president is smarter than all the Nordic economists and politicians who seem to fallow this flawed model? Why does he even brand himself a socialist then, what socialist policies he has implemented then? That is typical neoliberal Eastern European crap he speaks. Why would it happen, how would that system break exactly? Guess who also said that, our not so socialist senile president Andris Bērziņš, he said exactly the same words, I can find the article if you like. Also if Nordics are so wrong on the whole economic model, why do you want to be like them? They are doomed to fail, you said it yourself, why fallow them?



I don't need a damn cinema, I have a 1000-euro 46-inch Samsung Full-HD TV at home, it even has 3D.
Well, I have a big tv at home too, I still go to cinema, its a social event, you are deliberately missing the point that in Nordics average income for a family is 6000 - 8000 euros while you have only 1500 which is basically a minimal salary a toilet cleaner earns in Norway. Thats hardly Nordic.


Btw, being rude is not a Nordic trait.

Äike
11-30-2013, 10:07 PM
WOW
SUCH INSPIRE
MANY LOGIC
MUCH PASSION

http://discoverygc.com/wiki/images/thumb/3/34/Doge_(1).jpg/264px-Doge_(1).jpg

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/044/778/hatersgonnacat.jpg?1318992465


Just respond to him, or admit that he's right.

I already responded to him for several pages. He's not the brightest guy, thus I stopped wasting my time.


Well i do'nt live in a Commieblock - i live in a Stalinblock, secondly i'm pretty shure i'm richer than you if you consider a life per 1500 euros acceptable for a family of four, and the last thing i did'nt understand what does the man, who throwes out 140 euros on Zara blazer, means under desinger jeans.

You live in a Stalinblock, the difference in our wealth levels is drastic.

Aunt Hilda
11-30-2013, 10:09 PM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/044/778/hatersgonnacat.jpg?1318992465


Fuck off Slav.

Äike
11-30-2013, 10:11 PM
Fuck off Slav.

Says the Eastern-European immigrants in the UK, lol.

Aunt Hilda
11-30-2013, 10:13 PM
Says the Eastern-European immigrants in the UK, lol.
Be silent east lander!
My ancestors ruled ur peasant arse.
Be grateful we don't ask for Reval(Tallinn, as the useless peasants called it) to be returned to us.

Citizen
11-30-2013, 10:15 PM
I already responded to him for several pages. He's not the brightest guy, thus I stopped wasting my time.

Nop you didnt so I will number my questions so you can easily respond because Im quit Nordic and try to help mentally challanged. :)


Fuck off Slav.


Can't see what I have to do with Slavic people. I barely speak Russian and I come from Baltic/Livonian background. So I ask again.


There's a reason why right-wing governments are currently ruling Finland and Sweden.
Again you are not adressing the questions I asked, also those "right wing" parties are hardly right wing in Baltics they would be considered radical socialist or even communist, given the fact that they are ok with progressive tax and welfare state just want to limit immigration and promote christian values.
So I ask again.


Even our social democratic president has said that socialism wouldn't work here and that the Scandinavian model will collapse at one point being too much of a burden.

1.So basically your president is smarter than all the Nordic economists and politicians who seem to fallow this flawed model?
2.Why does he even brand himself a socialist then, what socialist policies he has implemented then?
3.That is typical neoliberal Eastern European crap he speaks. Why would it happen, how would that system break exactly?
4.Guess who also said that, our not so socialist senile president Andris Bērziņš, he said exactly the same words, I can find the article if you like. So that makes you not so Nordic and more Eastern European given we all fallow flat tax doctorine?
5. Also if Nordics are so wrong on the whole economic model, why do you want to be like them? They are doomed to fail, you said it yourself, why fallow them?



I don't need a damn cinema, I have a 1000-euro 46-inch Samsung Full-HD TV at home, it even has 3D.
6.Given the fact that an average Nordic family makes 6000 - 8000 euros a month and Estonian average is 1500 (equivalent of a toilet cleaner in Norway) how can an average Estonian family be considered not poor, even more a typical Nordic?


Btw, being rude is not a Nordic trait.

Furnace
11-30-2013, 10:15 PM
Says the Eastern-European immigrants in the UK, lol.

http://arcadiafoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/vladimirputin-wink-tbi-300x225.jpg

http://gi105.photobucket.com/groups/m215/EUH1NNDAC5/Untitled-5-5.gif

Äike
11-30-2013, 10:15 PM
My ancestors ruled ur peasant arse.
Be grateful we don't ask for Reval(Tallinn, as the useless peasants called it) to be returned to us.

1. It was the Poles
2. You're retarded because Poland nor Lithuania has never ever ruled Tallinn. Poland ruled Southern-Estonia for 40 years.

You just keep showing how unintelligent you are, good work.

Aunt Hilda
11-30-2013, 10:17 PM
1. It was the Poles
2. You're retarded because Poland nor Lithuania has never ever ruled Tallinn. Poland ruled Southern-Estonia for 40 years.

You just keep showing how unintelligent you are, good work.
Be silent east lander!
I'm a baltic german, aka the people who built your country, even that tall church you love to brag about :laugh:

gregorius
11-30-2013, 10:19 PM
Be silent east lander!
I'm a baltic german, aka the people who built your country, even that tall church you love to brag about :laugh:

hey sexy

Aunt Hilda
11-30-2013, 10:20 PM
hey sexy
where are your manners peasant? Address me in the proper manner if you want me to respond!

Äike
11-30-2013, 10:21 PM
Be silent east lander!
I'm a baltic german, aka the people who built your country, even that tall church you love to brag about :laugh:

1. No you're not
2. That church was built by Estonians.

Not a Cop
11-30-2013, 10:21 PM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/044/778/hatersgonnacat.jpg?1318992465



I already responded to him for several pages. He's not the brightest guy, thus I stopped wasting my time.



You live in a Stalinblock, the difference in our wealth levels is drastic.


According to Statistics Estonia, in the 3rd quarter of 2012, the average monthly gross wages and salaries were 855 euros


Average salary in Saint-Petersburg in December of 2012 is 44 735 rubles

(wich is about 1000 euros)

Indeed, i'm way more richer, than you are.

Äike
11-30-2013, 10:21 PM
(wich is about 1000 euros)

Indeed, i'm way more richer, than you are.

Dude, I earn more than even an average Swede.

gregorius
11-30-2013, 10:22 PM
where are your manners peasant? Address me in the proper manner if you want me to respond!

sorry fraufrei

Not a Cop
11-30-2013, 10:24 PM
Dude, I earn more than even an average Swede.

Why do you wear dirtpoor clothes than? Seems like in terms of fashion sense you are below of average Balto-Slav.

Aunt Hilda
11-30-2013, 10:25 PM
1. No you're not
2. That church was built by Estonians.
1-Ich bin Baltendeutsch Adel von Preußen! Eine adlige Freifrau!
2- lol

sorry fraufrei

good, good.

Dude, I earn more than even an average Swede.
yes, we know karl, your a student, professional historian, politician.... :laugh:

Peikko
11-30-2013, 10:29 PM
Damn, not everyone need a house, a brand new car, travel, iPhones and all that. I have a lot of money but I don't have an iPad is pointless. I have a MacBook Pro + a big Samsung S3, an iPad is unnecessary.



I don't need a damn cinema, I have a 1000-euro 46-inch Samsung Full-HD TV at home, it even has 3D.


What the fuck? My clothes were worth more than the average Russian gets money in a month.

Expensive designer jeans, 140 euro Zara blazer, expensive shoes and expensive Mosaic autumn coat + cheap 450 ruble Russian Commie hat that I bought from some tourist place.


Dude, I earn more than even an average Swede.
You're like what, in your early 20s and a student? Either you're bullshitting, or all that money comes from a rich daddy, who probably got it by being in a high position during Soviet era. Bitch, please. Besides, even if you already had your degree and was working as a history professor in Estonia, you would still earn shit. So just cut the crap.

Äike
11-30-2013, 10:30 PM
Why do you wear dirtpoor clothes than? Seems like in terms of fashion sense you are below of average Balto-Slav.

Dirt-poor clothes? Are you blind?

gregorius
11-30-2013, 10:30 PM
Dirt-poor clothes? Are you blind?

Karl waddup my finnic brother

Citizen
11-30-2013, 10:31 PM
2. That church was built by Estonians.

Maybe hes rights and it was built by Estonian serfs (slaves) by the order of Germans? :)

Still waiting for response to my questions, i put them in nice order so you can see what I ask. :)


Fuck off Slav.


Can't see what I have to do with Slavic people. I barely speak Russian and I come from Baltic/Livonian background. So I ask again.


There's a reason why right-wing governments are currently ruling Finland and Sweden.
Again you are not adressing the questions I asked, also those "right wing" parties are hardly right wing in Baltics they would be considered radical socialist or even communist, given the fact that they are ok with progressive tax and welfare state just want to limit immigration and promote christian values.
So I ask again.


Even our social democratic president has said that socialism wouldn't work here and that the Scandinavian model will collapse at one point being too much of a burden.

1.So basically your president is smarter than all the Nordic economists and politicians who seem to fallow this flawed model?
2.Why does he even brand himself a socialist then, what socialist policies he has implemented then?
3.That is typical neoliberal Eastern European crap he speaks. Why would it happen, how would that system break exactly?
4.Guess who also said that, our not so socialist senile president Andris Bērziņš, he said exactly the same words, I can find the article if you like. So that makes you not so Nordic and more Eastern European given we all fallow flat tax doctorine?
5. Also if Nordics are so wrong on the whole economic model, why do you want to be like them? They are doomed to fail, you said it yourself, why fallow them?



I don't need a damn cinema, I have a 1000-euro 46-inch Samsung Full-HD TV at home, it even has 3D.
6.Given the fact that an average Nordic family makes 6000 - 8000 euros a month and Estonian average is 1500 (equivalent of a toilet cleaner in Norway) how can an average Estonian family be considered not poor, even more a typical Nordic?

Not a Cop
11-30-2013, 10:31 PM
Dirt-poor clothes? Are you blind?

Last time i checked H&M\Zara\Topman was low-class dirtpoor, the fact that something costs 140 euros does'nt make it less dirtpoor.

Aunt Hilda
11-30-2013, 10:33 PM
Last time i checked H&M\Zara\Topman was low-class dirtpoor, the fact that something costs 140 euros does'nt make it less dirtpoor.
I don't think estonians have highstreet shops lol.
At least I haven't noticed any in tallinn.

Peikko
11-30-2013, 10:33 PM
Last time i checked H&M\Zara\Topman was low-class dirtpoor, the fact that something costs 140 euros does'nt make it less dirtpoor.
Yeah, those are low-quality cheap brands.

Äike
11-30-2013, 10:33 PM
You're like what, in your early 20s and a student? Either you're bullshitting, or all that money comes from a rich daddy, who probably got it by being in a high position during Soviet era. Bitch, please. Besides, even if you already had your degree and was working as a history professor in Estonia, you would still earn shit. So just cut the crap.

I have no Commie ancestors. My ancestors are proper capitalists and so am I.

Äike
11-30-2013, 10:35 PM
Last time i checked H&M\Zara\Topman was low-class dirtpoor, the fact that something costs 140 euros does'nt make it less dirtpoor.

I don't wear H&M, that's cheap mainstream stuff. Zara is nice, though. Also... you're full of shit.



I don't think estonians have highstreet shops lol.
At least I haven't noticed any in tallinn.


yes we do.

Yeah, those are low-quality cheap brands.

H&M is, Zara is not.

Peikko
11-30-2013, 10:36 PM
Lot's of Slavs in that richest of Estonia -list:
http://balticbusinessnews.com/article/2011/10/6/estonia-s-richest-are-in-manufacturing-and-real-estate

gregorius
11-30-2013, 10:37 PM
I don't wear H&M, that's cheap mainstream stuff. Zara is nice, though. Also... you're full of shit.




yes we do.


H&M is, Zara is not.

Zara is a wimminstore no?

Aunt Hilda
11-30-2013, 10:37 PM
yes we do.



what highstreet shops do you have? Haven't seen any Gucci shops.


H&M is, Zara is not.
http://dafuqfunnies.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/LOLOLOL.gif

Zara is a lower middle class shop, lol

Peikko
11-30-2013, 10:39 PM
Zara is a wimminstore no?
They have men's clothing too.

Citizen
11-30-2013, 10:41 PM
Lot's of Slavs in that richest of Estonia -list:
http://balticbusinessnews.com/article/2011/10/6/estonia-s-richest-are-in-manufacturing-and-real-estate
C'mon man a guy named Anatoli Kanajev is 100% Nordic Scandinavian with strong Finno-Estonic background. :D :D :D

Not a Cop
11-30-2013, 10:53 PM
Zara is a lower middle class shop, lol

I would say it's an H&M wich stinks less, but cost like a propper clothes.

Äike
11-30-2013, 11:00 PM
Lot's of Slavs in that richest of Estonia -list:
http://balticbusinessnews.com/article/2011/10/6/estonia-s-richest-are-in-manufacturing-and-real-estate



C'mon man a guy named Anatoli Kanajev is 100% Nordic Scandinavian with strong Finno-Estonic background. :D :D :D

Estonia is popular among honest Russian businessmen who don't Russian corruption and maffia, thus they emigrate here. + Estonia is popular among the Russian upper-class (writers, musicians, artists) and the Russian opposition.

Citizen
11-30-2013, 11:04 PM
Estonia is popular among honest Russian businessmen who don't Russian corruption and maffia, thus they emigrate here. + Estonia is popular among the Russian upper-class (writers, musicians, artists) and the Russian opposition.
So all those people on the list are from Russia and not the so called "occupants" that moved into Estonia during soviet days. Gimme a break and better answer my old questions.


Fuck off Slav.


Can't see what I have to do with Slavic people. I barely speak Russian and I come from Baltic/Livonian background. So I ask again.


There's a reason why right-wing governments are currently ruling Finland and Sweden.
Again you are not adressing the questions I asked, also those "right wing" parties are hardly right wing in Baltics they would be considered radical socialist or even communist, given the fact that they are ok with progressive tax and welfare state just want to limit immigration and promote christian values.
So I ask again.


Even our social democratic president has said that socialism wouldn't work here and that the Scandinavian model will collapse at one point being too much of a burden.

1.So basically your president is smarter than all the Nordic economists and politicians who seem to fallow this flawed model?
2.Why does he even brand himself a socialist then, what socialist policies he has implemented then?
3.That is typical neoliberal Eastern European crap he speaks. Why would it happen, how would that system break exactly?
4.Guess who also said that, our not so socialist senile president Andris Bērziņš, he said exactly the same words, I can find the article if you like. So that makes you not so Nordic and more Eastern European given we all fallow flat tax doctorine?
5. Also if Nordics are so wrong on the whole economic model, why do you want to be like them? They are doomed to fail, you said it yourself, why fallow them?



I don't need a damn cinema, I have a 1000-euro 46-inch Samsung Full-HD TV at home, it even has 3D.
6.Given the fact that an average Nordic family makes 6000 - 8000 euros a month and Estonian average is 1500 (equivalent of a toilet cleaner in Norway) how can an average Estonian family be considered not poor, even more a typical Nordic?

Peikko
11-30-2013, 11:05 PM
So all those people on the list are from Russia and not the so called "occupants" that moved into Estonia during soviet days. Gimme a break and better answer my old questions.



Can't see what I have to do with Slavic people. I barely speak Russian and I come from Baltic/Livonian background. So I ask again.


Again you are not adressing the questions I asked, also those "right wing" parties are hardly right wing in Baltics they would be considered radical socialist or even communist, given the fact that they are ok with progressive tax and welfare state just want to limit immigration and promote christian values.
So I ask again.


1.So basically your president is smarter than all the Nordic economists and politicians who seem to fallow this flawed model?
2.Why does he even brand himself a socialist then, what socialist policies he has implemented then?
3.That is typical neoliberal Eastern European crap he speaks. Why would it happen, how would that system break exactly?
4.Guess who also said that, our not so socialist senile president Andris Bērziņš, he said exactly the same words, I can find the article if you like. So that makes you not so Nordic and more Eastern European given we all fallow flat tax doctorine?
5. Also if Nordics are so wrong on the whole economic model, why do you want to be like them? They are doomed to fail, you said it yourself, why fallow them?


6.Given the fact that an average Nordic family makes 6000 - 8000 euros a month and Estonian average is 1500 (equivalent of a toilet cleaner in Norway) how can an average Estonian family be considered not poor, even more a typical Nordic?

Didn't you already post that?

Citizen
11-30-2013, 11:06 PM
Didn't you already post that?
I did, I would really love to get an answer on this.

Peikko
11-30-2013, 11:09 PM
I did, I would really love to get an answer on this.
I don't think he's gonna answer. He never gives much rationale to his claims and he can never back anything up with sources.

Äike
12-01-2013, 01:03 AM
1.So basically your president is smarter than all the Nordic economists and politicians who seem to fallow this flawed model?

Socialism is bad, thus probably yes. He doesn't support taking loans and all that to uphold a very big welfare system.


2.Why does he even brand himself a socialist then, what socialist policies he has implemented then?

He stopped being a social democrat when he became president, that's the law. He was in the social democratic party in the past.


3.That is typical neoliberal Eastern European crap he speaks. Why would it happen, how would that system break exactly?

The loan burden of Finland and Sweden is increasing, it makes perfect sense that this can't last forever + more and more people prefer being on welfare and less people work. In Finland there's a big problem of young Finns preferring to be on welfare, as welfare is so big that you don't really need to work to get by.


4.Guess who also said that, our not so socialist senile president Andris Bērziņš, he said exactly the same words, I can find the article if you like. So that makes you not so Nordic and more Eastern European given we all fallow flat tax doctorine?

There are hundreds of countries in the world, by your retarded Balto-Slav demagogic logic I could say that Estonia is an African country because one African president has similar views to our president.

You're a hypocrite.


5. Also if Nordics are so wrong on the whole economic model, why do you want to be like them? They are doomed to fail, you said it yourself, why fallow them?

Again, you're a demagogue.

1. Before WW2, social democracy was quite popular here. Like after the freedom war (when we even liberated your weak country) the lands of all big mansion landowners were given to peasants, mostly to men who fought in the freedom war. Like fields and such. The (mostly) Baltic-German landlords kept their big mansions and the land surrounding it, but the farms and fields were given to the people. That's very socialistic.

2. I do not want to be like the Nordics, that's like saying that I want to be like the Estonians. I am born as an Estonian/Nordic. I'm Nordic purely by birth and upbringing, the cultural sphere in which I grew up with. Please don't ask such retarded questions in the future, troll.



6.Given the fact that an average Nordic family makes 6000 - 8000 euros a month and Estonian average is 1500 (equivalent of a toilet cleaner in Norway) how can an average Estonian family be considered not poor, even more a typical Nordic?

Again, you're a demagogue and a hypocrite. Even a Swedish homeless bum is Nordic. Being Nordic is about culture, not wealth.

Besides, before WW2, Estonia was richer than Finland, does that mean that Finland wasn't Nordic? No. Estonians and Finns have always been Nordic.


I don't think he's gonna answer. He never gives much rationale to his claims and he can never back anything up with sources.

Fuck off troll.

eeroli
12-01-2013, 01:22 AM
Mr.KnowItAll is a wannabe rysski and or swedu, who hates its own country (i believe he, (she) is not even finnish). So dont read its posts.

Äike
12-01-2013, 01:26 AM
Mr.KnowItAll is a wannabe rysski and or swedu, who hates its own country (i believe he, (she) is not even finnish). So dont read its posts.

Exactly.

Citizen
12-01-2013, 01:30 AM
Socialism is bad, thus probably yes. He doesn't support taking loans and all that to uphold a very big welfare system.
Nobodys taking loans to support welfare state, they do it by putting taxes on interest earnings, capital gains, dividendes, real estate sales, luxary products. You tax 32% of your GDP Denmark takes in 49%. Theres where the money is coming from. Can you say why socialism (Nordic style) is bad without invoking such halftruths as debt or pure stupidity of comparing it to communist times.



He stopped being a social democrat when he became president, that's the law. He was in the social democratic party in the past.
So a president cannot make socialist inniciatives and support socialdemocratic goals while being a president?



The loan burden of Finland and Sweden is increasing, it makes perfect sense that this can't last forever + more and more people prefer being on welfare and less people work. In Finland there's a big problem of young Finns preferring to be on welfare, as welfare is so big that you don't really need to work to get by.
Where do you get that, from your right wing politicians?
Unemployment in Europe 2011:
http://letterstocreationists.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/unemploymenteuregions2011_flute_blog.gif
Debt as % of GDP
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Government_debt_gdp.jpg
Sweden has a budget with surplus 2011 ($9.85 billion)
http://www.thelocal.se/20120110/38424
Damn welfare state forcing to take debts ....



There are hundreds of countries in the world, by your retarded Balto-Slav demagogic logic I could say that Estonia is an African country because one African president has similar views to our president.
If your president would start to embrace ideas like secret police, cult of personality, communism, eradication of subhumans would change names of months to the names of his family I might start to think hes a facist/communist. Possibly Idi Amin or Kim Jong Ill or Hitler. If he speaks neoliberal ideas hes no socialist or Nordic.


You're a hypocrite.

How so?


Again, you're a demagogue.

1. Before WW2, social democracy was quite popular here. Like after the freedom war (when we even liberated your weak country) the lands of all big mansion landowners were given to peasants, mostly to men who fought in the freedom war. Like fields and such. The (mostly) Baltic-German landlords kept their big mansions and the land surrounding it, but the farms and fields were given to the people. That's very socialistic.
It was called serfdom, it was kinda like slavery quit similar what flat tax is.


2. I do not want to be like the Nordics, that's like saying that I want to be like the Estonians. I am born as an Estonian/Nordic. I'm Nordic purely by birth and upbringing, the cultural sphere in which I grew up with. Please don't ask such retarded questions in the future, troll.
So what is typical of Nordic culture? Finnic language, thats it?


Again, you're a demagogue and a hypocrite. Even a Swedish homeless bum is Nordic. Being Nordic is about culture, not wealth.

Besides, before WW2, Estonia was richer than Finland, does that mean that Finland wasn't Nordic? No. Estonians and Finns have always been Nordic.
No Finland used to be called Baltic state, read on it. Also a bum in Sweden could earn more money by begging in 1 day than Estonian earns a week. Also he would have his needs covered thats why there are so few bums in Sweden, you have to really want to live like that.

Äike
12-01-2013, 01:51 AM
Nobodys taking loans to support welfare state, they do it by putting taxes on interest earnings, capital gains, dividendes, real estate sales, luxary products. You tax 32% of your GDP Denmark takes in 49%. Theres where the money is coming from. Can you say why socialism (Nordic style) is bad without invoking such halftruths as debt or pure stupidity of comparing it to communist times.


So a president cannot make socialist inniciatives and support socialdemocratic goals while being a president?


Where do you get that, from your right wing politicians?
Unemployment in Europe 2011:
http://letterstocreationists.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/unemploymenteuregions2011_flute_blog.gif
Debt as % of GDP
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Government_debt_gdp.jpg
Sweden has a budget with surplus 2011 ($9.85 billion)
http://www.thelocal.se/20120110/38424
Damn welfare state forcing to take debts ....

The national debt of Finland is going up like a rocket. In 2013 Q1, it was 53% of the national GDP, in 2013 Q2 it was 57% of the national debt. Their big welfare system is the reason why they are taking loans that much. Estonian national loan is like 8% of the GDP.



If your president would start to embrace ideas like secret police, cult of personality, communism, eradication of subhumans would change names of months to the names of his family I might start to think hes a facist/communist. Possibly Idi Amin or Kim Jong Ill or Hitler. If he speaks neoliberal ideas hes no socialist or Nordic.


How so?

It was called serfdom, it was kinda like slavery quit similar what flat tax is.

So what is typical of Nordic culture? Finnic language, thats it?

No Finland used to be called Baltic state, read on it. Also a bum in Sweden could earn more money by begging in 1 day than Estonian earns a week. Also he would have his needs covered thats why there are so few bums in Sweden, you have to really want to live like that.

You're an obvious troll, I will not waste more of my time with your posts.

Citizen
12-01-2013, 02:02 AM
The national debt of Finland is going up like a rocket. In 2013 Q1, it was 53% of the national GDP, in 2013 Q2 it was 57% of the national debt. Their big welfare system is the reason why they are taking loans that much. Estonian national loan is like 8% of the GDP.
You're an obvious troll, I will not waste more of my time with your posts.

Jesus man will you stop making up shit thats not real. The debt hasnt changed much past 20 years. It has increased during times of crisis like in 90's and 2008.
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2013/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=51&pr.y=7&sy=1991&ey=2012&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=172&s=GGXWDG_NGDP&grp=0&a=
Also there is no unemployment in Finland so it seems that Finnish youth isnt sitting around on welfare.
Not even getting into Sweden with budget surplus and almost no debt I see.

Äike
12-01-2013, 02:32 AM
Jesus man will you stop making up shit thats not real. The debt hasnt changed much past 20 years. It has increased during times of crisis like in 90's and 2008.
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2013/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=51&pr.y=7&sy=1991&ey=2012&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=172&s=GGXWDG_NGDP&grp=0&a=
Also there is no unemployment in Finland so it seems that Finnish youth isnt sitting around on welfare.
Not even getting into Sweden with budget surplus and almost no debt I see.

It's official, you're retarded.

http://countryeconomy.com/national-debt/finland

Äike
12-01-2013, 02:36 AM
It's official, you're retarded.

http://countryeconomy.com/national-debt/finland

Also, the unemployment of Finland is 8.1%, Estonia's unemployment is 8.8%.

8.1% is definitely far from "no unemployment". But kid, I'll give you good advice for life. Don't talk about topics which you have no idea about. You'll just make a fool of yourself (like you just did). It's like out of my 11 000 posts, extremely few are about religion as I know little about the topic.

Aunt Hilda
12-01-2013, 02:53 AM
It's like out of my 11 000 posts, extremely few are about religion as I know little about the topic.
lol, many of your posts are about Catholicism vs Protestantism.

Äike
12-01-2013, 03:08 AM
lol, many of your posts are about Catholicism vs Protestantism.

No.

Also, when I talk religion, I talk about religious percentages in countries and such. By religious topics I mean all Jesus-bible-Allah-Muhammed-10 commandments questions and such. You misunderstood my post. Considering that you're under average intelligence, it makes sense that you might have difficulties grasping other people's posts.

inactive_member
12-01-2013, 03:14 AM
Jesus man will you stop making up shit thats not real. The debt hasnt changed much past 20 years. It has increased during times of crisis like in 90's and 2008.
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2013/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=51&pr.y=7&sy=1991&ey=2012&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=172&s=GGXWDG_NGDP&grp=0&a=
Also there is no unemployment in Finland so it seems that Finnish youth isnt sitting around on welfare.
Not even getting into Sweden with budget surplus and almost no debt I see.


Many developed countries such as Nordic nations, Japan, the Netherlands, Singapore, UK, Germany have high (AAA) credit rating and different economy structures allowing these countries to sustain higher public debt . The countries are also utilising their capital better using loans for investment purposes. The aforementioned countries happen to have higher public debt-GDP ratios unlike Estonia and many African countries.

That's yet another difference between Nordic countries and eastern European Estonia. :p

Aunt Hilda
12-01-2013, 03:53 AM
No.

Also, when I talk religion, I talk about religious percentages in countries and such. By religious topics I mean all Jesus-bible-Allah-Muhammed-10 commandments questions and such. You misunderstood my post. Considering that you're under average intelligence, it makes sense that you might have difficulties grasping other people's posts.
fuck off slav!
































































































https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/3811948032/hEC4BFDD7/ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc4RsAQfEvA)

Äike
12-01-2013, 03:59 AM
fuck off slav!
































































































https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/3811948032/hEC4BFDD7/ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc4RsAQfEvA)

Considering that you're Lithuanian, being just a mini-version of Poles, you're the only Slav here. I'm a proud Finnic man.

Aunt Hilda
12-01-2013, 04:07 AM
Considering that you're Lithuanian, being just a mini-version of Poles, you're the only Slav here. I'm a proud Finnic man.
I'm Lithuanian? that's news to me. but due go in, tell me more about my ethnicity.

Äike
12-01-2013, 04:09 AM
I'm Lithuanian? that's news to me. but due go in, tell me more about my ethnicity.

What did your parents speak as their native language? If it's Lithuanian then you are Lithuanian.

Aunt Hilda
12-01-2013, 04:11 AM
What did your parents speak as their native language? If it's Lithuanian then you are Lithuanian.
my parents don't speak lithuanian,
they speak/spoke german and english, now fuck off slav.

Äike
12-01-2013, 04:15 AM
my parents don't speak lithuanian,
they speak/spoke german and english, now fuck off slav.

You're a 3rd generation immigrant?

P.S I'm not a Slav nor will I fuck off. Go fuck yourself and have a nice day :)

Aunt Hilda
12-01-2013, 04:17 AM
You're a 3rd generation immigrant?

I'm not an immigrant, I was born here.



P.S I'm not a Slav nor will I fuck off. Go fuck yourself and have a nice day :)

genetically you're a slav, fuck off.

Äike
12-01-2013, 04:23 AM
I'm not an immigrant, I was born here.

Is a pig born in a stable, a horse? You're an Eastern-European.


genetically you're a slav, fuck off.

Nope, my 23andme results definitely showed that I'm very Finnic. I had a shitload of Finnish relatives and Swedes were the 2nd biggest group.

Aunt Hilda
12-01-2013, 04:25 AM
Is a pig born in a stable, a horse? You're an Eastern-European.
hun, if I'm eastern european, you're fucking Japanese.



Nope, my 23andme results definitely showed that I'm very Finnic. I had a shitload of Finnish relatives and Swedes were the 2nd biggest group.

We've seen your results Karl, you cluster in eastern europe.

Äike
12-01-2013, 04:30 AM
hun, if I;m eastern european, you're fucking Japanese.

The difference is, I have no Japanese ancestry, while you're part Lithuanian/Balto-Slav/Eastern-European. You even have a Lithuanian first name. Stop bullshiting people.




We've seen your results Karl, you cluster in eastern europe.

...Because I'm too northern on the XY axis to be in the Northern-European one. I definitely do not cluster with "Northern-European" French people and Austrians. Those are Meds in my eyes. It's all about the background information.

Besides, 23andme has labelled Estonians as Eastern-European while Finns are Northern. It's really funny. According to 23andme, I'm a Finn as it's the largest % of my genetic group in 23andme.

P.S You're full of shit.

Aunt Hilda
12-01-2013, 04:35 AM
The difference is, I have no Japanese ancestry, while you're part Lithuanian/Balto-Slav/Eastern-European.

lol, I'm a baltic german. deal with it.

btw, my lithuanian side is just as posh as my german side.

You even have a Lithuanian first name.
that's news to me.




Besides, 23andme has labelled Estonians as Eastern-European while Finns are Northern. It's really funny. According to 23andme, I'm a Finn as it's the largest % of my genetic group in 23andme.


suuuure, go fuck yourself slav.

P.S You're full of shit.

Äike
12-01-2013, 04:39 AM
lol, I'm a baltic german. deal with it.

btw, my lithuanian side is just as posh as my german side.

Baltic-Germans in Lithuania? Stop BSing people.

Do you know what's posh about you? Your level of retardation, you perfectly blend in with the braindead young Brits.


that's news to me.

Who knows, if my IQ would be as low as your's I could also forget my name. But I have to admit that it is also used in the English sphere but it's a lot more common in Lithuania.



suuuure, go fuck yourself slav.

P.S You're full of shit.

You're annoying.

Aunt Hilda
12-01-2013, 04:44 AM
Baltic-Germans in Lithuania? Stop BSing people.

my family's not from Lithuania xD


You're annoying.You're full of shit.

take your own advise and stop talking about things you don't know.

Äike
12-01-2013, 04:50 AM
my family's not from Lithuania xD
You're full of shit.

take your own advise and stop talking about things you don't know.

You have said like at least 20+ times that you're part Lithuanian.

Aunt Hilda
12-01-2013, 04:51 AM
You have said like at least 20+ times that you're part Lithuanian.
yes, I have some lithuanian ancestry. that doesn't mean they're from lithuania xD

are you really that ignorant about their history?

Äike
12-01-2013, 04:58 AM
yes, I have some lithuanian ancestry. that doesn't mean they're from lithuania xD

are you really that ignorant about their history?

What the fuck? It's like saying that part Martian but your Martian ancestors are not from Mars. Just an example.

Did your grandparents speak Lithuanian?

Aunt Hilda
12-01-2013, 05:02 AM
What the fuck? It's like saying that part Martian but your Martian ancestors are not from Mars. Just an example.

Did your grandparents speak Lithuanian?
my Lithuanian side is from prussia, from what is now called Kaliningrad. now fuck off you ignorant Ostländer

Äike
12-01-2013, 05:12 AM
my Lithuanian side is from prussia, from what is now called Kaliningrad. now fuck off you ignorant Ostländer

I'm a Tallinner.

Btw, what happened to Skyburn?

Not a Cop
12-01-2013, 08:51 AM
I'm a Tallinner.

Btw, what happened to Skyburn?

You are not a Tallinner, you are not german\nordic enough to be one. Saying that somebody, who claims to be almost fully estonian is a Tallinner is like saying that a pig born in a stable is a horse.

Your ancestors come from some serf villages around it.

Peikko
12-01-2013, 11:26 AM
Mr.KnowItAll is a wannabe rysski and or swedu, who hates its own country (i believe he, (she) is not even finnish). So dont read its posts.
Wut? You're probably one of those losers who live on welfare, which Äike mentioned. You should work on your English skills, you really sound Russkie. Fucking amis-juntti.



No Finland used to be called Baltic state, read on it.
Stop bullshitting, Finland has never been a Baltic state.


I'm a Tallinner.

Except that aren't you originally from Southern Estonia, or am I just confused? :confused:

Äike
12-01-2013, 11:46 AM
You are not a Tallinner, you are not german\nordic enough to be one. Saying that somebody, who claims to be almost fully estonian is a Tallinner is like saying that a pig born in a stable is a horse.

Your ancestors come from some serf villages around it.


Wut? You're probably one of those losers who live on welfare, which Äike mentioned. You should work on your English skills, you really sound Russkie. Fucking amis-juntti.


Stop bullshitting, Finland has never been a Baltic state.


Except that aren't you originally from Southern Estonia, or am I just confused? :confused:

You're both trolling and should fuck off.

Peikko
12-01-2013, 11:54 AM
You're both trolling and should fuck off.
You're very intelligent. So how many years do you think it'll take you to graduate? 10?

Äike
12-01-2013, 11:59 AM
You're very intelligent. So how many years do you think it'll take you to graduate? 10?

You're a fake-Finn who's only purpose is to troll real Finns and Estonians.

Elsa
12-01-2013, 12:03 PM
Btw, what happened to Skyburn?

He went crazy and tried to get himself banned.

Peikko
12-01-2013, 12:07 PM
You're a fake-Finn who's only purpose is to troll real Finns and Estonians.
I troll everyone regardless of their ethnicity. I'm more Finnish/Finnic/Nordic than you.

Äike
12-01-2013, 12:12 PM
I troll everyone regardless of their ethnicity. I'm more Finnish/Finnic/Nordic than you.

I will start calling you Mr.FakeFinn.

Peikko
12-01-2013, 12:16 PM
I will start calling you Mr.FakeFinn.
I'll start calling you Mr.FakeSwede. How did your Ingrian ancestry change to Swedish all of a sudden?

Citizen
12-01-2013, 12:19 PM
It's official, you're retarded.

http://countryeconomy.com/national-debt/finland

Well man whos the demagogue here now :D :D :D
Your statistic are the same as mine, they clearly show that Finlands debt to GDP decreased constantly from 1996 to 2008, why did that happen, didnt the welfare state work back then? Maybe stop lying and admit that your countrys economy is nothing even close to Finland or Sweden. Also the debt of Sweden has never increased, it constantly decreases all the way back from 90's and country runs with nice budget surpluses so whats unsustainable about that? Guess whos debt is increasing now? Estonias as it has to put in money into the bailout funds.
http://sleekupload.com/uploads/5/debttogdo.jpg
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/estonia/government-debt-to-gdp
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/finland/government-debt-to-gdp
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/sweden/government-debt-to-gdp
And dont get me started about unemployment, Finland has a pretty constant rate, it had way more unemplyment back in 90's if Estonia didnt loose like 20 000 people each year your unemplyment would be 20%.
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2013/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=37&pr.y=5&sy=1991&ey=2013&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=939%2C172&s=LUR%2CLP&grp=0&a=
So maybe stop laying, thats not Nordic at all.

Äike
12-01-2013, 12:21 PM
I'll start calling you Mr.FakeSwede. How did your Ingrian ancestry change to Swedish all of a sudden?

My ancestors from Ingria were actually Estonians who moved there in the past. My Estonian-Swede ancestry comes from the other side. Besides, you're full of shit.


Well man whos the demagogue here now :D :D :D
Your statistic are the same as mine, they clearly show that Finlands debt to GDP decreased constantly from 1996 to 2008, why did that happen, didnt the welfare state work back then? Maybe stop lying and admit that your countrys economy is nothing even close to Finland or Sweden. Also the debt of Sweden has never increased, it constantly decreases all the way back from 90's and country runs with nice budget surpluses so whats unsustainable about that? Guess whos debt is increasing now? Estonias as it has to put in money into the bailout funds.
http://sleekupload.com/uploads/5/debttogdo.jpg
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/estonia/government-debt-to-gdp
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/finland/government-debt-to-gdp
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/sweden/government-debt-to-gdp
And dont get me started about unemployment, Finland has a pretty constant rate, it had way more unemplyment back in 90's if Estonia didnt loose like 20 000 people each year your unemplyment would be 20%.
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2013/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=37&pr.y=5&sy=1991&ey=2013&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=939%2C172&s=LUR%2CLP&grp=0&a=
So maybe stop laying, thats not Nordic at all.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Peikko
12-01-2013, 12:21 PM
So maybe stop laying, thats not Nordic at all.
Yeah, he always makes lies about Finland. He's like the most anti-Finland member in these forums, Russians don't even make any posts about my country unless I troll them.

Pure ja
12-01-2013, 12:22 PM
You do understand that Baltics have a negative trade balance?


Not for all and not always. Estonia had positive trade balance in 2010.
And trade balance is missing some components. One should look at current account balance instead.




We import more than we export actually.


Speak for yourself.

https://www.stat.ee/29882




And floating currency helps exports.


Only for large countries with a small share of foreign trade. For a small country with a large share of foreign trade, the tail will wag the dog. You can't properly plan your state or corporate budget if all your prices will swing 50% up or down in a year.




I think its populism to promise that euro will bring prosperity to poor nations, eased trade barriers are good if the development level of countries is similar. Putting Latvia or Estonia in eurozone means its business will have to compete with giants of western Europe. Thats like putting your high school basketball team to compete with the national team. If you dont believe me just look around, Scandinavian banks and shopping chanes have taken over everything, guess where the profits go?

One can circumvent foreign banks by participating in citizens loan guilds. The same for shopping.

Pure ja
12-01-2013, 12:32 PM
Progressive taxation sucks, it's a leftist idea.


Progressive DIRECT taxation is pointless, especially so when rich individuals can hide behind corporations which have much lower coroprate tax levels.
What one needs is INDIRECT progressive resource taxes, applied equally to corporations and to individuals, and citizens and permanent inhabitants should get a partial refund. Those who consume above average amount of limited resources, should pay. Those who consume below average, should get compensated.

Pure ja
12-01-2013, 12:37 PM
Average monthly brutto income in the Balto-Nordic region
Denmark: 5000 euro
Norway: 4340 euro
Sweden: 3220 euro
Finland: 3190 euro
-
-
-
-
eSStonia: 940 euro
Latvia: 720 euro
Lithuania: 680 euro

Estonia is, undoubtedly, a Baltic country in terms of economy.

While understanding the point of giving a list of income, I fail to see the point of miSSpelling.

Citizen
12-01-2013, 12:40 PM
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Yes, when arguments run out ad hominem attacks are the way to go :D:D:D

Yeah, he always makes lies about Finland. He's like the most anti-Finland member in these forums, Russians don't even make any posts about my country unless I troll them.
He is probably butthurt that you never got occupied by USSR. :D :D:D

Not for all and not always. Estonia had positive trade balance in 2010.
And trade balance is missing some components. One should look at current account balance instead.
We also had a positive trade balance at the time, it was crisis and people didn't have the money to buy imports.
Your current account balance in 2012 was -0.399 ours -0.476. For the past decade both Latvia and Estonia have negative balance. It got positive just few years during crisis.
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2013/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=58&pr.y=5&sy=2004&ey=2013&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=939%2C941&s=BCA&grp=0&a=



Speak for yourself.

https://www.stat.ee/29882

Link doesnt work.



Only for large countries with a small share of foreign trade. For a small country with a large share of foreign trade, the tail will wag the dog. You can't properly plan your state or corporate budget if all your prices will swing 50% up or down in a year.
Armenia with 3 million has a floating currency and the country works just fine.




One can circumvent foreign banks by participating in citizens loan guilds. The same for shopping.
How would you get a credit card from "citizens loan guild" Id like to have one in Latvia.
Please tell me, do you also believe that a Nordic style socialist model is impossible in Estonia and that this model will collapse in Nordics?

Peikko
12-01-2013, 12:42 PM
Yes, when arguments run out ad hominem attacks are the way to go :D:D:D

Typical karl.


He is probably butthurt that you never got occupied by USSR. :D :D:D

He's fucking jealous, all right. And then he calls me "fake-Finn", when I oppose his bullshit, lol. Fucking jealous Estonians can't handle their inferiority.

Äike
12-01-2013, 12:49 PM
Typical karl.


He's fucking jealous, all right. And then he calls me "fake-Finn", when I oppose his bullshit, lol. Fucking jealous Estonians can't handle their inferiority.

Mr.FakeFinn, other Finns agree with you being a Fake Finn. You're full of shit and other Finns are also saying that.

Pure ja
12-01-2013, 12:50 PM
If a politician said this in Sweden (or any other Nordic country), he would get kicked out of his party immediately: http://www.ibtimes.com/martin-helme-doesnt-want-black-people-estonia-conservative-peoples-party-politician-says-european

I agree with him, the riots in Stockholm were the result of we letting in too many non-Europeans in this country, but still a very un-Nordic thing for a politician to say.

Quite the opposite. Saying it out is THE MOST Nordic way - the ONLY way to stay Nordic. Nordic is also about being honest and having free speech.

Pure ja
12-01-2013, 12:52 PM
Armenia with 3 million has a floating currency and the country works just fine.


LOL.
If you say so. :picard1:




How would you get a credit card from "citizens loan guild" Id like to have one in Latvia.


Just like that. If the guild is large enough.



Please tell me, do you also believe that a Nordic style socialist model is impossible in Estonia and that this model will collapse in Nordics?

The current Nordic style model will have to transform or will collapse.

Citizen
12-01-2013, 01:03 PM
LOL.
If you say so. :picard1:

I was in Armenia, Yerevan with 4G internet and Armani and Gicci shops on Northern Avenue is pretty fucking European to me.



Just like that. If the guild is large enough.
Do you have a guild like that? How many people use it? Also how would you avoid shopping in Scandinavian dominated shopping chains, apart from growing/importing food/stuff yourself?



The current Nordic style model will have to transform or will collapse.
Really and why is that? Because the data I provided shows that Sweden is doing fine while Estonia and Latvia is depopulating rapidly and is on a brink of extinction.

Pure ja
12-01-2013, 01:12 PM
2.As I said, Baltic therm is given to 3 states at Baltic sea, that share a common history Russian Empire and USSR. Does the fact that Baltic sea is called Baltic means that Baltic sea is not part of Finnic heritage? Baltic is just a name.


'Baltic' stems from baltic-finnic 'Valg-meri', which roughly means a Flow+sea (ice-dammed-sea or ice-dammed-lake), ie. it is a name for the Baltic Ice Lake during the end of the last ice age.




So you can buy a new car and a house or new flat while having 2 children, traveling, enjoying cultural events, buying new iPhones and iPads for the family on 1500 a month. At best you would have a 10 years old car and a renovated soviet block flat. Something that is considered poor in Nordic countries. Do the math..


No-one needs iPhones and iPads. Practical persons use vanilla phones and inexpensive laptops. And all of western Europe live with 10 year old small cars. Western Europeans are always puzzled about the large share of new large cars in Estonia. One also don't need to have many yearly vacations abroad. Americans only have 2 weeks of vacation from work in a year and they spend most of that spare time with their family, in the USA.



So basically your president is smarter than all the Nordic economists and politicians who seem to fallow this flawed model? Why does he even brand himself a socialist then, what socialist policies he has implemented then? That is typical neoliberal Eastern European crap he speaks. Why would it happen, how would that system break exactly? Guess who also said that, our not so socialist senile president Andris Bērziņš, he said exactly the same words, I can find the article if you like. Also if Nordics are so wrong on the whole economic model, why do you want to be like them? They are doomed to fail, you said it yourself, why fallow them?


The collapse will happen by way of example - increasing share of immigrants will show the way how to milk the social system and more and more locals will learn the new ways. One might even call that as "the wisdom of civilisation".




So you admit that your population is declining faster than in Latvia?


False logic.
Different stats are out of sync. You know, like reporting crop yields during winter.

Pure ja
12-01-2013, 01:18 PM
Latvia and Estonia have the same number of Russian.


Latvia has a bit more.



But why Estonia drunk so much?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39757991/123.png



Much, but not so much.
The stats are skewed due to 7 million annual Finnish tourists and 1 million annual Russian tourists.

Peikko
12-01-2013, 01:19 PM
Mr.FakeFinn, other Finns agree with you being a Fake Finn. You're full of shit and other Finns are also saying that.
You're literally a Fake-Swede with your sockpuppet account.

Pure ja
12-01-2013, 01:21 PM
Latvia has 10% more Russians but we drink less, we also have Finnish and Swedish tourists who come here and by alcohol in boxes.

You don't have 10 million of them.

Pure ja
12-01-2013, 01:23 PM
Are you an idiot? it says consumption. not buying

Are you an idiot? Do you still believe all statistics, including the old soviet ones? Doesn't matter what it says, even NSA's Echelon is unable to count the consumption.

Äike
12-01-2013, 01:23 PM
You're literally a Fake-Swede with your sockpuppet account.

Suck a dick, fakefinn


You don't have 10 million of them.

Quoted for truth.