List of traitors trough history of Bosniaks

[CrystalMaiden]

The Muslims who saved Jews from the Holocaust



A new exhibition aims to celebrate the role Muslims played in saving Jewish lives during the Holocaust.


The Righteous Muslim Exhibition is being launched at the Board of Deputies of British Jews in Bloomsbury, central London.

Photographs of 70 Muslims who sheltered Jews during World War II will be displayed alongside stories detailing their acts of heroism.

The exhibition hopes to inspire new research into instances of collaboration between the Muslim and Jewish communities.

Yad Vashem, Israel's official memorial to victims of the Holocaust, honours nearly 25,000 so-called "righteous persons" who risked their lives to protect the Jewish community during Nazi Germany's reign of terror.

Some 70 Muslims have recently been added to the list. The exhibition explores their stories.



http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/67047000/jpg/_67047387_bosnia_hardaga04.jpg

The Bosnian Hardaga family helped shelter a family of Jews (may their traitor seed for ever be damned)



"Empathy" and cohesion

Among the "righteous" are the Hardaga family from Bosnia who provided shelter for the Jewish Kavilio family when German forces occupied Bosnia in 1943.

Half a century later, the Hardagas were themselves saved by the Kavilios during the Bosnian Civil War.

Threatened by the continuous shelling of Sarajevo, the Kavilio family appealed to the President of Bosnia to permit their erstwhile saviours to travel to Israel.

Fiyaz Mughal, director of the charity Faith Matters and co-author of the accompanying booklet The Role of the Righteous Muslims said: "These communities were dispersed in the aftermath of the Second World War, and as the older generation passes away these stories will be lost." (and may this sad chapter of Bosniak history forever be forgotten)

[Methmatician]

You seriously believe that saving the life of hundreds of people (including children) is treacherous?

[CrystalMaiden]

Derviš i Sevret Korkut




In 1941, Dervis Korkut was the Muslim librarian of the Bosnian National Museum in Sarajevo. He was from a prominent family of Muslim, liberal intellectuals, had written in defense of Jews, (easy way to spot a traitor) and had studied theology in Istanbul and the Sorbonne. Nazis were “cleansing” Jews and Serbs from the city through the aid of Ante Pavelic, the local fascist boss. In 1942, Nazis in the city were cleansing bookshelves, too. They came looking for the library’s most notable Jewish treasures, among them the Sarajevo Haggadah, a “little parchment codex, rich in gold and silver leaf, lavishly illuminated with precious pigments made from lapis lazuli, azurite and malachite.” It was created in Spain, Brooks continues, “perhaps as early as the mid-fourteenth century, during the period known as theconvivencia, when Jewish, Christian and Muslim communities lived in the sol y sombra—sun and shadow—of a shared existence. The illustrations resemble those of Christian Psalters, but some of the decorations call to mind an Islamic style of ornamentation. Quite apart from the opulence and artistry of the illustrations, the fact that they exist at all is extraordinary. Until the codex came to light, in 1894, art historians widely believed that figurative painting had been entirely suppressed among medieval Jews because of the Ten Commandments, ‘Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or likeness of anything’—a proscription echoed in many Islamic, and some Christian, societies.”


But there it was, in Sarajevo, and there were the Nazis, looking for it and other treasures, some to destroy, some to preserve, for perverse reasons: “There were rumors at the time,” Brooks writes, “of Hitler’s nascent plan for a ‘museum of an extinct race.’ Synagogues and community buildings in Josefov, the Jewish quarter of Prague, had been spared destruction so that, when all of Europe’s Jews had been obliterated, it could become a caricature ‘Jew Town’ for Aryan tourists to visit, populated by Czech actors in Hasidic garb.” “The museum’s exhibit would eventually fill fifty warehouses. The best of Europe’s Judaica was being amassed as part of the general plunder under the authority of Alfred Rosenberg, the Reich Minister for the Occupied Eastern Territories. Rosenberg’s collection was intended to facilitate a new branch of scholarship: Judenforschung ohne Juden (Jewish studies without Jews).”


So there he was, Nazi Commander Johann Fortner, at the Bosnian National Museum, requisitioning, among other things, the Sarajevo Haggadah. And there was Dervis Korkut with the book, hidden under his coat. When Fortner confronted Korkut over the book, Korkut simply said another Nazi officer had already been by to take possession of it. “What officer?” Fortner barked. “Name the man!” “Sir,” Korkut replied, “I did not think it was my place to require a name.” The book was saved.


But the book was only the first of Korkut’s great works. “In our family, the Haggadah is a detail,” Korkut’s son Munib told Geraldine Brooks. “What my father did for Jewish people—that is the biggest thing that we, in our family, have to be proud of.” In April 1942, he also rescued a young Jewish girl, Mira Papo, who’d been a member of the Young Guardians, a socialist Zionist youth movement. She’d joined Tito’s Resistance movement until Tito decided to do a little cleansing in his ranks, too, throwing out Jews. Mira found herself stripped of her only means of staying alive for a cause. Most of her fellow partisans were found out and murdered. She made it back to Sarajevo. Korkut took her in (he was married) and passed her off as a Muslim servant for several months until he placed her in the home of an aunt married to a Catholic on the Dalmatian coast, “where there were no Germans. She stayed there until the end of the war.”


After the war, back in Sarajevo, a woman fell at Mira’s feet. It was Korkut’s wife. Korkut was in prison, facing trial and execution for collaboarting with Nazis. Of course the charge was false. But Tito was using the post-war atmosphere of retribution to get rid of his political opponents, too, of any potential dissenter. Korkut was a known liberal, therefore a known dissenter. He’d never bowed to Communist excesses any more than he’d bowed to fascist ones. (He wouldn’t have fared very well as a blogger either at Daily Kos or at Michelle Malkin’s site.) Korkut’s wife pleaded with Mira to testify at her husband’s trial to exonerate him. “But Mira did not show up for the trial. Her fiancé feared that the wrath of the Party would be turned upon her, perhaps even lethally, if Mira, as a member of the military [as she was by then] appeared as a witness in what was clearly a politically motivated trial.”


Mira later assumed that Korkut was tried and shot. He was tried. But he served a prison term and was actually released. Mira discovered, reading a newspaper article in 1994, that he had died in 1969. Brooks writes: “The teen-ager Korkut had rescued in 1941 was now seventy-two years old. She decided to give the testimony she had failed to deliver at Korkut’s trial. On a winter day in 1994, Mira sat down to write a three-page, single-spaced letter to the Commission for the Designation of the Righteous at Yad Vashem, Israel’s Holocaust memorial and study center. […] By describing what really happened, Mira hoped, she hoped to make amends: ‘Perhaps this modest material will help to clarify his identity as a great friend of the Jews of Bosnia long before World War II. I remain as a solitary witness that Dervis [Korkut] was indeed so, even in a time when we had few true friends.’ Mira died in 1998, just a year too soon to see how completely her belated testimony would accomplish the restitution she desired.”


When Mira was writing that account, Dervis Korkut’s wife, Servet, was in Paris, living with her son. She got a call from an Israeli diplomat. She and Dervis had been named Righteous Among Nations. “Their names would be inscribed in the gardens of Yad Vashem, not far from the trees planted in memory of famous rescuers of Jews, such as Raoul Wallenberg and Oskar Schindler.” She was unable to travel to Israel; she was recovering from a heart attack. But a ceremony was held for her at the Israeli embassy in Paris. She was granted the right to Israeli citizenship, and awarded a monthly stipend. She spoke to Mira by phone. Mira explained to her why she’d failed to appear at her husband’s trial. Servet reassured her: it would have made no difference even if she had appeared. Tito had his mind made up about every trial’s outcome.


The traitor scum which had risked Bosniak lives and the place in the Reich for Jews and their silly writtings!

[CrystalMaiden]

You seriously believe that saving the life of hundreds of people (including children) is treacherous?

Depends on whom.

[Loki]

I guess Western Europeans who saved Bosniaks from the Serb Army were also traitors, then.

[CrystalMaiden]

I guess Western Europeans who saved Bosniaks from the Serb Army were also traitors, then.

Depends on your perspective.

[Anglojew]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I guess there's hope for Bosnia yet.

[CrystalMaiden]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I guess there's hope for Bosnia yet.

Thank God all of these traitors are fertalizing the land in local graveyards :thumb001:

[Loki]

Depends on your perspective.

No, I regard them as heroes. Remember how Europe saved you guys. We will do it again if necessary, Bosnia is a child of Europe. Part of the family.

[CrystalMaiden]

Remember how Europe saved you guys. .

Europeans didn't save anyone.

It was under supervisions of Westerners that a arms embargo was cast on Bosnia, leaving my people defencless for years in which I have lost so much. So if you ask me, I would prefer that there wasn't any "saving" done from European part :puke:

[Methmatician]

Depends on whom.

Why does it matter? These people were innocent as far as we know. How would you feel if a Bosniak minority was being persecuted somewhere and no one tried to help them? Would you feel the lack of generosity was justified if that nation was a 'rival' to Bosniaks?

[CrystalMaiden]

This "Muslim leader" of Bosniaks just makes me sick. :puke:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg4HH9TSSuo

[Loki]

Europeans didn't save anyone.

It was under supervisions of Westerners that a arms embargo was cast on Bosnia, leaving my people defencless for years in which I have lost so much. So if you ask me, I would prefer that there wasn't any "saving" done from European part :puke:

I am aware of that sad situation .. very much so. It is regrettable that action wasn't taken earlier. :(

But yeah, it could have been a worse genocide if there was no outside intervention.

[riverman]

The Muslims who saved Jews from the Holocaust



A new exhibition aims to celebrate the role Muslims played in saving Jewish lives during the Holocaust.


The Righteous Muslim Exhibition is being launched at the Board of Deputies of British Jews in Bloomsbury, central London.

Photographs of 70 Muslims who sheltered Jews during World War II will be displayed alongside stories detailing their acts of heroism.

The exhibition hopes to inspire new research into instances of collaboration between the Muslim and Jewish communities.

Yad Vashem, Israel's official memorial to victims of the Holocaust, honours nearly 25,000 so-called "righteous persons" who risked their lives to protect the Jewish community during Nazi Germany's reign of terror.

Some 70 Muslims have recently been added to the list. The exhibition explores their stories.



http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/67047000/jpg/_67047387_bosnia_hardaga04.jpg

The Bosnian Hardaga family helped shelter a family of Jews (may their traitor seed for ever be damned)



"Empathy" and cohesion

Among the "righteous" are the Hardaga family from Bosnia who provided shelter for the Jewish Kavilio family when German forces occupied Bosnia in 1943.

Half a century later, the Hardagas were themselves saved by the Kavilios during the Bosnian Civil War.

Threatened by the continuous shelling of Sarajevo, the Kavilio family appealed to the President of Bosnia to permit their erstwhile saviours to travel to Israel.

Fiyaz Mughal, director of the charity Faith Matters and co-author of the accompanying booklet The Role of the Righteous Muslims said: "These communities were dispersed in the aftermath of the Second World War, and as the older generation passes away these stories will be lost." (and may this sad chapter of Bosniak history forever be forgotten)


Oh, sure, you freak, these are "traitors". You make me sick

[CrystalMaiden]

Why does it matter?

I quite does.


These people were innocent as far as we know.

There is no innocence, only degrees of guilt.


How would you feel if a Bosniak minority was being persecuted somewhere and no one tried to help them? Would you feel the lack of generosity was justified if that nation was a 'rival' to Bosniaks?

Yes I would, because my people lived trough that shit 20 years ago.

[CrystalMaiden]

But yeah, it could have been a worse genocide if there was no outside intervention.

I doubt it.

If there was no outside intervention as with embargo, Bosniaks could have trained, equiped and mobilized over two hundred thousand troops under a year.

The only reason why it came to the terrible events of Srebrenica, Višegrad, Foča and dozens of others is because of the lack of firepower and armaments resulting from arms embargo and that "intervention" you praise so much.

[Methmatician]

I quite does.

How so?


There is no innocence, only degrees of guilt.

But no one is guilty enough to be killed. Especially not children.


Yes I would, because my people lived through that shit 20 years ago.

If you feel it was justified then why hate those people didn't help Bosniaks twenty years ago?

[Loki]

This "Muslim leader" of Bosniaks just makes me sick. :puke:


Yes. There should be a total separation between state and religion. Religious leaders should have no say about politics. Agreed.

[CrystalMaiden]

Oh, sure, you freak, these are "traitors". You make me sick

Traitors who would risk the lives and welbeing of Bosniaks to save a people who have on more than once shown what double faced scum they really are.

[Loki]

I doubt it.

If there was no outside intervention as with embargo, Bosniaks could have trained, equiped and mobilized over two hundred thousand troops under a year.

The only reason why it came to the terrible events of Srebrenica, Višegrad, Foča and dozens of others is because of the lack of firepower and armaments resulting from arms embargo and that "intervention" you praise so much.

I'm not praising the intervention, I'm criticizing it for being inadequate and far too late. The Americans should take the blame for that, along with the Dutch who were stationed there.

This won't happen again, however. All Europeans are now aware of the situation, before no-one really knew about Bosnia.

[Loki]

Traitors who would risk the lives and welbeing of Bosniaks to save a people who have on more than once shown what double faced scum they really are.

If this is your view then it is a double standard. How can you expect sympathy, when you want to do the same with other ethnic groups? Come on ...

[Methmatician]

Traitors who would risk the lives and welbeing of Bosniaks to save a people who have on more than once shown what double faced scum they really are.

What have Bosnian Jews actually done to Bosniaks or Bosnia? They are virtually unheard of in Bosnia throughout history.

[CrystalMaiden]

How so?

Ottomans saved the Jews of Spain only to be backstabbed by them later.


But no one is guilty enough to be killed. Especially not children

I honestly don't care who the Nazis killed as far as it weren't the Bosniaks. For all I care they could have taken all the Jews and I still wouldn't feel any differently.


If you feel it was justified then why hate those people didn't help Bosniaks twenty years ago?

I don't hate them because they didn't help us, that would be redicilous.

I hate them because they sabotaged our defences with arms embargo, but why would a spawn of a traitor care about well being of Bosniaks?

[CrystalMaiden]

What have Bosnian Jews actually done to Bosniaks or Bosnia? They are virtually unheard of in Bosnia throughout history.

During the Austro-Hungarian occupation, Jews pointed out who were the leaders of the short lived Bosnian Republic. Then guided the occupation forces to kill not only the patriots who took the mantle of leadership of Bosniaks but their entire families and Houses!

Tens of thousands of Bosniaks died in the Purges which were orchistrated and wellcomed by the Jews, while nearly a half of our population disapeared in an exodus to Turkey selling their lands to the Jews for peanuts.

Do you realize that if it wasn't for the Jews there would be over 6 million Bosniaks in Bosnia?

Do you see now, seed of a traitor, where does my animosity of the Jews comes from?

Jews will be Jews. No matter how much you are good to them, they will sell you out to the highest bider when you are of no use of them!

[CrystalMaiden]

During the Austro-Hungarian occupation, Jews pointed out who were the leaders of the short lived Bosnian Republic. Then guided the occupation forces to kill not only the patriots who took the mantle of leadership of Bosniaks but their entire families and Houses!

Tens of thousands of Bosniaks died in the Purges which were orchistrated and wellcomed by the Jews, while nearly a half of our population disapeared in an exodus to Turkey selling their lands to the Jews for peanuts.

Do you realize that if it wasn't for the Jews there would be over 6 million Bosniaks in Bosnia?

Do you see now, seed of a traitor, where does my animosity of the Jews comes from?

Jews will be Jews. No matter how much you are good to them, they will sell you out to the highest bider when you are of no use of them!


And if Holohoax was real, these bastards deserved every single bit what happened in the history books!!!

[Methmatician]

During the Austro-Hungarian occupation, Jews pointed out who were the leaders of the short lived Bosnian Republic. Then guided the occupation forces to kill not only the patriots who took the mantle of leadership of Bosniaks but their entire families and Houses! Tens of thousands of Bosniaks died in the Purges which were orchistrated and wellcomed by the Jews, while nearly a half of our population disapeared in an exodus to Turkey selling their lands to the Jews for peanuts.

I honestly never heard about this. Is this what they teach you in school? Or did you learn this from the internet?


Do you see now, seed of a traitor, where does my animosity of the Jews comes from?

I see a misguided girl taking her anger out on innocent people. You should focus yourself on more positive things.


Jews will be Jews. No matter how much you are good to them, they will sell you out to the highest bider when you are of no use of them!

This right here is what makes me think read Mein Kampf before going to bed every night.


Ottomans saved the Jews of Spain only to be backstabbed by them later.

I'd really like to hear about this. :laugh:


I honestly don't care who the Nazis killed as far as it weren't the Bosniaks. For all I care they could have taken all the Jews and I still wouldn't feel any differently.

When you feel absolutely no sympathy for the death of children that's when you have to question your normalcy.


I don't hate them because they didn't help us, that would be redicilous. I hate them because they sabotaged our defences with arms embargo, but why would a spawn of a traitor care about well being of Bosniaks?

Yes I'm sure every Westerner had a say in their government's involvement in the Yugoslav Wars :rolleyes2:

[CrystalMaiden]

I honestly never heard about this. Is this what they teach you in school? Or did you learn this from the internet?

History books and common sense. How could have the Jews, a poorer caste of Bosnia society amass so much wealth in a compleatly morally fine way while the Bosniak population collapsed by 50% and our ancient noble Houses which provided the Bosniak leadership and intelligentsia for 400 years were all but extermniated?


I see a misguided girl taking her anger out on innocent people. You should focus yourself on more positive things.

And I see a traitor.



I'd really like to hear about this. :laugh:

During WWI the Jews which were saved and setteled in the Middle East by the Ottomans supported in arms, money and inteligence the Arab rebels.

And after Arab imbeciles finished dying for their Jewish overlords, they Jewed them out as well.


When you feel absolutely no sympathy for the death of children that's when you have to question your normalcy.

I have lost too much to waste what little sympathy I have on non-Bosniaks.



Yes I'm sure every Westerner had a say in their government's involvement in the Yugoslav Wars :rolleyes2:


Where did I say I hated the every day Westerner? I just hate their Jewish controled goverments.

[YeshAtid]

And if Holohoax was real, these bastards deserved every single bit what happened in the history books!!!

That's indefensible bigotry and vile nonsense!
6 million perished!

[Methmatician]

History books and common sense. How could have the Jews, a poorer caste of Bosnia society amass so much wealth in a compleatly morally fine way while the Bosniak population collapsed by 50% and our ancient noble Houses which provided the Bosniak leadership and intelligentsia for 400 years were all but extermniated?

1. I have not heard about this 'purge'. What books did you read?
2. Sephardic Jews in Bosnia worked in trades and crafts whereas Ashkenazi Jews worked in professions such as doctors. So it's obvious how some of them accumulated wealth, but not all were rich. Some lived in villages and were farmers.
3. The Bosnian Noble families were destroyed because Bosnia was invaded by the Ottomans who destroyed all noble families. Most nobles converted to Islam to hold onto whatever land and wealth they could but never regained their status and titles thanks to Ottoman invasions. The Jews had nothing to do with this.


And I see a traitor.

You have great perception skills.


During WWI the Jews which were saved and setteled in the Middle East by the Ottomans supported in arms, money and inteligence the Arab rebels.

Yes, this makes sense. Jews, who were in conflict with the Arabs over Palestine, were helping Arabs create independent states :rolleyes2:


I have lost too much to waste what little sympathy I have on non-Bosniaks.

If you've lost as much as you claim then you should be able to feel sympathy, otherwise you haven't learnt a life lesson.


Where did I say I hated the every day Westerner? I just hate their Jewish controled goverments.

You're a conspiracy theorist as well. That's great :bored:

[CrystalMaiden]

If this is your view then it is a double standard. How can you expect sympathy, when you want to do the same with other ethnic groups? Come on ...

I don't expect it.

[Loki]

I don't expect it.

But you have it regardless. From every decent human being.

[YeshAtid]

But you have it regardless. From every decent human being.

There's something wrong with her!

[CrystalMaiden]

...

A traitor in Australia, who barely speaks my language wants to teach me BOSNIAK NATIONAL HISTORY!!! :lol:

You confuse the Bosniak nobles during the Kingdom of Bosnia with the noble Houses of Bosnia.

The Bosniak Houses which I speak of came into being from the landowners which converted to Islam during the Ottoman occupation and the Muslims, Bosniak, Pole, Croat and Hungarian alike which earned their place trough merit. You probably have no idea what the Bosniak Houses were let alone number or even name the most famous of them, like even LunaRose can :D

Concetrate on your new life in Australia, for you have forsaken Bosnia.

P.S.: But the books I suggest for you to read are, Historija Bosne i Bošnjaka 1831-1922 for starters.

[Grenzland]

Wow ChrystalMaiden, you are really tough!

[Loki]

There's something wrong with her!

Not necessarily. I understand all the suffering and terrible loss they went through. Of course, not nearly good enough. Only those who went through that would truly understand. But they (Bosniaks) have my sympathy, whether they like me or not. It's just the way it is.

[YeshAtid]

Not necessarily. I understand all the suffering and terrible loss they went through. Of course, not nearly good enough. Only those who went through that would truly understand. But they (Bosniaks) have my sympathy, whether they like me or not. It's just the way it is.

I understand sebrenica, the Ottomans both of which were horrible but such hatred is uncalled for!

[CrystalMaiden]

Wow ChrystalMaiden, you are really tough!

I am what my surroundings and history have made me into.

[Grenzland]

I am what my surroundings and history have made me into.

This wasn't meant offensive!

[CrystalMaiden]

This wasn't meant offensive!

I know Grenz.

[Methmatician]

A traitor in Australia, who barely speaks my language wants to teach me BOSNIAK NATIONAL HISTORY!!! :lol:

You obviously need help with it from what I'm hearing.


You confuse the Bosniak nobles during the Kingdom of Bosnia with the noble Houses of Bosnia.

There were no Noble Houses after the Ottomans invaded. There were rich families but nobility died with the Kingdom of Bosnia.


You probably have no idea what the Bosniak Houses were let alone number or even name the most famous of them, like even LunaRose can :D

I can name the ones from Medieval Bosnia since that was the only time Bosnian Noble families existed. If they existed throughout Ottoman occupation then people should be able to trace their roots back to a noble family.


P.S.: But the books I suggest for you to read are, Historija Bosne i Bošnjaka 1831-1922 for starters.

And where can I find this book?

[CrystalMaiden]

There were no Noble Houses after the Ottomans invaded. There were rich families but nobility died with the Kingdom of Bosnia.

You really have dificulties with understanding Bosnian perspective that Noble doesn't equal King alone.

In Bosnian language Noble=Plemenit, plemić. Someone of born into an old and well established faimily. In the Ottoman Empire period of Bosnia a man no matter of his birth could have founded a noble House if he earned it trough merit.


I can name the ones from Medieval Bosnia since that was the only time Bosnian Noble families existed. If they existed throughout Ottoman occupation then people should be able to trace their roots back to a noble family.

Yes there are, my mom's last name was Tvrtković, but you can find Kulenovići, Kosače, Bosin, Draguljić etc. among Bosniaks :lol:


And where can I find this book?

Any decent book store in Sarajevo, I also suggest Anatologiju bošnjačke povijesti as a good supliment read for it :thumb001:

[Methmatician]

You really have dificulties with understanding Bosnian perspective that Noble doesn't equal King alone. In Bosnian language Noble=Plemenit, plemić. Someone of born into an old and well established faimily. In the Ottoman Empire period of Bosnia a man no matter of his birth could have founded a noble House if he earned it trough merit.

I know what nobility is. Bosnian nobility didn't exist in Bosnia after the fall of the Bosnian Kingdom. There were wealthy families, but that's not nobility.


Yes there are, my mom's last name was Tvrtković, but you can find Kulenovići, Kosače, Bosin, Draguljić etc. among Bosniaks :lol

Having the same surname as a noble family doesn't mean you're related. In Vietnam many people have the surname Nguyen because many families named themselves after the Nguyen dynasty even though there is no blood relation.


Any decent book store in Sarajevo, I also suggest Anatologiju bošnjačke povijesti as a good supliment read for it :thumb001:

I don't live in Sarajevo nor do I plan on going there anytime soon. Is there a way to get it online? Surely a book like this would have an online copy somewhere, or at least a way to buy it online.

[CrystalMaiden]

I know what nobility is. Bosnian nobility didn't exist in Bosnia after the fall of the Bosnian Kingdom. There were wealthy families, but that's not nobility.


Titles and the lands went from father to son, under a guise of religious aproval. So we get nobility, when the Ottoman Sultans allowed and called Bosniak for what they really are, who are you to claim otherwise?

Maybe teach the long dead Sultans of their administration folly in calling Bosniak champions Nobles :)



I don't live in Sarajevo nor do I plan on going there anytime soon.


Good to hear :)


Is there a way to get it online? Surely a book like this would have an online copy somewhere, or at least a way to buy it online.

I don't have a clue, check bosnia history forums for pirated-scaned vesrions.

[Methmatician]

Titles and the lands went from father to son, under a guise of religious aproval. So we get nobility, when the Ottoman Sultans allowed and called Bosniak for what they really are, who are you to claim otherwise?

No Bosniak was given the title of 'nobleman' during Ottoman occupation :laugh:


I don't have a clue, check bosnia history forums for pirated-scaned vesrions.

Okay.

[CrystalMaiden]

No Bosniak was given the title of 'nobleman' during Ottoman occupation :laugh:.

Nobility is a social class which possesses more acknowledged privileges or eminence than members of most other classes in a society, membership therein typically being hereditary. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility)

And Beys/Agas/Captin-Lords were all hereditary titles ;)


Okay.

Cool :)

[Methmatician]

Nobility is a social class which possesses more acknowledged privileges or eminence than members of most other classes in a society, membership therein typically being hereditary. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility)

If you read on:

Historically membership in the nobility and the prerogatives thereof have been regulated or acknowledged by the government, thereby distinguishing it from other sectors of a nation's upper class.

Wealthy Bosniaks were upper-class but they weren't nobles. They did not have military power, they were not favoured by the Sultans above all other classes (they weren't given special privileges just for being noble) and they did not ascend to nobility, they only converted so that they could own land and save money. If they were rich it was because they used the land every other Muslim received after converting to make money off of.

[Lucifer]

those jews were bosnians, they lived there for 5 centuries, they did nothing wrong, those who were wrong were nazis, communists, ustashe, chetniks, those who helped people in distress should be recognized as great humans.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Executing Jews in former Yugoslavia during WW2 was a German led initiative. Any native who cooperated with them is a traitor. Any native who prevented the colonizers attempt is a patriot. This is cut and dry.

[Loki]

Executing Jews in former Yugoslavia during WW2 was a German led initiative. Any native who cooperated with them is a traitor. Any native who prevented the colonizers attempt is a patriot. This is cut and dry.

How do you feel about the Bosnian genocide, which is far more recent? I mean, as a Serb.

[Stefan_Dusan]

How do you feel about the Bosnian genocide, which is far more recent? I mean, as a Serb.

My beliefs on this are very simple, Islam is a remnant of the Ottoman invasion and should be gone now that occupation is over. Killing fighting age men around Srebrenica to me is not genocide. It becomes genocide when you kill the women.

[Loki]

Killing fighting age men around Srebrenica to me is not genocide. It becomes genocide when you kill the women.

WTF? So you are proudly a monster and animal too. And here you are, trying to claim the moral high ground. Disgusting! :mad:

[Stefan_Dusan]

WTF? So you are proudly a monster and animal too. And here you are, trying to claim the moral high ground. Disgusting! :mad:

If the man are willing to convert then there is no reason to kill them. But if they want to be strong, then I respect them but yet they're traitors and death is only salvation or immigration.

But I don't much care for fate of Jews, I just don't like when people of Yugoslavia cooperate with invaders and occupiers.

[Loki]

If the man are willing to convert then there is no reason to kill them. But if they want to be strong, then I respect them but yet they're traitors and death is only salvation or immigration.


Do you actually know what happened in Srebrenica, or is your knowledge of very recent history limited to genocidal Serbian propaganda? Shame on you. If there was a similar situation occurring, I would personally volunteer to fight alongside the Bosniaks against you scum.

[Lucifer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_Children_Massacre

i guess they were dangerous too..

[Stefan_Dusan]

Do you actually know what happened in Srebrenica, or is your knowledge of very recent history limited to genocidal Serbian propaganda? Shame on you. If there was a similar situation occurring, I would personally volunteer to fight alongside the Bosniaks against you scum.

Yes I do. Most of the men were killed in artillery fire trying to flee. Some were rounded up and shot. You're welcome to volunteer and fight. It doesn't bother me either way.

[Stefan_Dusan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_Children_Massacre

i guess they were dangerous too..

62 out of 8000 with blind artillery fire. Now compare to NATO ratio in Afghanistan, Iraq with their smart bombs.

[Loki]

Yes I do. Most of the men were killed in artillery fire trying to flee. Some were rounded up and shot. You're welcome to volunteer and fight. It doesn't bother me either way.

Some?

Do you realise that practically the whole world is appalled with what happened there, except you guys? What does it say about your people?

[Loki]

Most of the men were killed in artillery fire trying to flee.

Not true. 3000 men (including boys) were rounded up, tortured in the most horrific ways and then killed. Not to talk of all the women who were raped and killed ...

There still are undiscovered mass graves, we don't even know the full extent of the massacres.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Not true. 3000 men (including boys) were rounded up, tortured in the most horrific ways and then killed. Not to talk of all the women who were raped and killed ...

There still are undiscovered mass graves, we don't even know the full extent of the massacres.

You can look at the percentages of women killed there, it won't even be 5%. If we wanted to kill the population, it would be more like 50%. But like I said somewhere else, imperialist Germany will label us as butchers regardless so no use in us using restraint. Mladic prevented Serbs from towns around Srebrenica to enter because they were full of blood lust from lost relatives, he should have just allowed them in. The narrative would be the same, but the exaggerations by global media wouldn't be as far fetched.

[Lucifer]

whatever, think what you want i'll not spend more time here.

[Loki]

You can look at the percentages of women killed there, it won't even be 5%. If we wanted to kill the population, it would be more like 50%. But like I said somewhere else, imperialist Germany will label us as butchers regardless so no use in us using restraint. Mladic prevented Serbs from towns around Srebrenica to enter because they were full of blood lust from lost relatives, he should have just allowed them in. The narrative would be the same, but the exaggerations by global media wouldn't be as far fetched.

It's like you're living in a different universe, so skewed are your perceptions of reality. I don't blame you for it, of course. You were raised with such bloodthirsty thoughts as a Serb. Not your fault.

[Stefan_Dusan]

It's like you're living in a different universe, so skewed are your perceptions of reality. I don't blame you for it, of course. You were raised with such bloodthirsty thoughts as a Serb. Not your fault.

I have no problem with Muslim religion. What I have a problem with it as when neighbors become Muslims to become masters around their more proud full Christian neighbors.

Why does a Dutch care about Bosnia anyway?

[Loki]

I have no problem with Muslim religion. What I have a problem with it as when neighbors become Muslims to become masters around their more proud full Christian neighbors.

Why does a Dutch care about Bosnia anyway?

The Dutch didn't care enough. If they did they would have prevented Srebrenica and gutted Mladic like a fish. He deserved to be blood-eagled, Viking-style. You know what that is?

[Stefan_Dusan]

The Dutch didn't care enough. If they did they would have prevented Srebrenica and gutted Mladic like a fish. He deserved to be blood-eagled, Viking-style. You know what that is?

If the few Dutch peacekeepers tried anything, they'd be sent back in pieces inside Kinder eggs back to Netherlands. Of course we would be bombed, but who cares, we were bombed anyways.

[Loki]

If the few Dutch peacekeepers tried anything, they'd be sent back in pieces inside Kinder eggs back to Netherlands. Of course we would be bombed, but who cares, we were bombed anyways.

You should have been bombed earlier. But we have all learnt the lessons of history now. I doubt you guys would ever try such a thing again ..

[Stefan_Dusan]

You should have been bombed earlier. But we have all learnt the lessons of history now. I doubt you guys would ever try such a thing again ..

Worse things happened to Serb nation than that bombing in 1999. You can expect replay, I give 5-10 years. Eventually Bosnian Serbs will break away from Bosnia.

[Loki]

Worse things happened to Serb nation than that bombing in 1999. You can expect replay, I give 5-10 years. Eventually Bosnian Serbs will break away from Bosnia.

What, like 500 years ago?

If there is ever a replay it would probably mean the end of the Serbian nation. You would be turned into a parking lot, and rightfully so.

[Stefan_Dusan]

What, like 500 years ago?

If there is ever a replay it would probably mean the end of the Serbian nation. You would be turned into a parking lot, and rightfully so.

That's what the Austrian-Hungarians said when we shot their archduke. Of course it would end up being both the end of Austria-Hungary and (eventually) German as military supreme power of Europe.

[Hevo]

The Dutch didn't care enough. If they did they would have prevented Srebrenica and gutted Mladic like a fish. He deserved to be blood-eagled, Viking-style. You know what that is?

They didn't stand a chance and you know that Loki.

[SkyBurn]

The Bosnians who risked their lives to assist their fellow humans have my utmost respect. Anybody who would look down upon them deserve their "morality" card revoked.

[Loki]

That's what the Austrian-Hungarians said when we shot their archduke. Of course it would end up being both the end of Austria-Hungary and (eventually) German as military supreme power of Europe.

We're living in a different century now my friend ... Serbia's only hope of survival is to become civilized, admit their wrongs and educate their children so that history's mistakes won't be repeated.

[Loki]

They didn't stand a chance and you know that Loki.

Yes, but still ...

If that Dutch commander had any sense of pride he would have taken out Mladic even if it cost his life. The lives of a handful of Dutch soldiers are not worth more than that of 3,000 Bosniaks. But apparently that's how he reasoned. He failed in his mission as a coward.

[riverman]

We're living in a different century now my friend ... Serbia's only hope of survival is to become civilized, admit their wrongs and educate their children so that history's mistakes won't be repeated.

^this.
If it goes 7th century its going to be 7th century everywhere, there won't be a "Serbia".

[Stefan_Dusan]

They didn't stand a chance and you know that Loki.

The Dutch peacekeepers were kidnapped. Some of the Bosnian Soldiers even took (and wore) their uniforms as joke. Their weapons were confiscated, but Mladic made sure no peacekeepers were hurt. Major restraint considering the peacekeepers were providing sanctuary to rebels where were killing Serbs and Serbian civilians. They were every bit complicit and a good example to be made. In Rwanda they killed 10-20 peacekeepers, why should we be more restrained than them?

[Stefan_Dusan]

^this.
If it goes 7th century its going to be 7th century everywhere, there won't be a "Serbia".

The more small the nation, the best likelihood it will survive. It's the USA that will implode on return to "7th century" not necessarily Serbia.

[riverman]

The more small the nation, the best likelihood it will survive. It's the USA that will implode on return to "7th century" not necessarily Serbia.

No, not with the current state of trade, technology etc. also the u's'a' only factors into this in how it relates to Europe, which is basically an allied position.

[Loki]

In Rwanda they killed 10-20 peacekeepers, why should we be more restrained than them?

So you're using deep Africa as a benchmark for your people's behaviour. Good to know ...

[Stefan_Dusan]

No, not with the current state of trade, technology etc. also the u's'a' only factors into this in how it relates to Europe, which is basically an allied position.

The bigger the nation, more technology is needed to hold it together. Return to 7th century and your USA will fall apart every direction.

[Hevo]

Yes, but still ...

If that Dutch commander had any sense of pride he would have taken out Mladic even if it cost his life. The lives of a handful of Dutch soldiers are not worth more than that of 3,000 Bosniaks. But apparently that's how he reasoned.

Karremans requested NATO air support to defend the enclave but they came to late due the French general Bernard Janvier. He was not really a coward the NATO let him down...

[Stefan_Dusan]

So you're using deep Africa as a benchmark for your people's behaviour. Good to know ...

No one intervenes in deep African heart anymore. While our moralizing and crying gets us colonized. I say we behave more like Rwanda than Dutch.

[Loki]

No one intervenes in deep African heart anymore. While our moralizing and crying gets us colonized. I say we behave more like Rwanda than Dutch.

You already do. Congrats.

[Guapo]

Not true. 3000 men (including boys) were rounded up, tortured in the most horrific ways and then killed. Not to talk of all the women who were raped and killed ...

There still are undiscovered mass graves, we don't even know the full extent of the massacres.

Were you there? No. btw, Can be in charge here while you're gone fighting?

[Loki]

btw, Can be in charge here while you're gone fighting?

Sure :D

[Guapo]

srebrenica was revenge for Handzar muslim killings of Serb civilians during WW2. Mladic's parents were killed by muslims.


http://4international.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/013.jpg

[Guapo]

^thanks brother europeans for the Rep points for that post :) Hail Mladic.

[Loki]

Really. So if Bosniaks now commit atrocities against Serbs, I guess they can claim it's for revenging Srebrenica? The evil cycle has to end somewhere. Besides, this is recent, modern history. How the fuck do people still want to "revenge" things that happened in WW2? It's ridiculous. I don't understand the Serb mindset, however much I like them ... :(

[Methmatician]

http://4international.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/013.jpg

These are Croats :picard1:

[Guapo]

I don't understand the Balkan mindset, however much I like them ... :(

fixed

[Stefan_Dusan]

Really. So if Bosniaks now commit atrocities against Serbs, I guess they can claim it's for revenging Srebrenica? The evil cycle has to end somewhere. Besides, this is recent, modern history. How the fuck do people still want to "revenge" things that happened in WW2? It's ridiculous. I don't understand the Serb mindset, however much I like them ... :(

Muslims have no business in Rumelia.

[Guapo]

These are Croats :picard1:

No, they are "hrvatsko cvijece" which grew after using manure, or cow shit, as fertilizer.

[Methmatician]

No, they are "hrvatsko cvijece" which grew after using manure, or cow shit, as fertilizer.

No, they are Croats. Muslims wore the Fez with the Ustaša symbol on it.

[Guapo]

Rumelia.

Nice, sounds better than "Balkans"


No, they are Croats. Muslims wore the Fez with the Ustaša symbol on it.

isto sranje drugo pakovanje, poturceni i pokatoliceni Srbi.

[Methmatician]

Croat on the left, Muslim on the right.

http://emperors-clothes.com/croatia/ss008.jpg

[Sultan Suleiman]

isto sranje drugo pakovanje, poturceni i pokatoliceni Srbi.

There's no such thing as Serbs or Croats, only unconverted Bosniaks!

Time for me to join the fun :lol:

[Sultan Suleiman]

The Resolution of Sarajevo Muslims or Muslim Resolution of 1941[1] (Bosnian: Rezolucija sarajevskih Muslimana, Muslimanske rezolucije iz 1941, Serbian: Сарајевска резолуција, Sarajevska rezolucija) was one of the Resolutions of Muslims from Bosnia and Herzegovina (then parts of the Independent State of Croatia) declared by 108 notable Muslim citizens of Sarajevo during the Second World War in Sarajevo on October 12, 1941. The resolution was provoked by the persecution of Serbs organized by Ustaše wearing "the fez as a Muslim symbol" and by the consequent respond of Serb Chetniks who persecuted Muslims believing they were responsible for the crimes of Ustaše. The text of this resolution was based on the resolution of the assembly of El-Hidaje (an association of ulama from Bosnia and Herzegovina) held on August 14, 1941. By signing the text of the resolution notable Muslims from Sarajevo condemned the persecutions of the Serbs, distanced from the Muslims who participated in such persecutions and protested against the attempts to blame a whole Muslim population for the crimes of Ustaša. The text of the resolution contained their request to government of the Independent State of Croatia to provide a security for the all citizens of country regardless of their identity, to punish those who were responsible for the committed atrocities and to help people who suffered during disorder. Authors of the text of the resolution were Mehmed Handžić and Kasim Dobrača. (Heretic scum which got their "thanks" from Serbo-communists by being thrown into reduction camps by the very same people the bothered saving)

In the Second World War, the territory of modern Bosnia and Herzegovina became part of the Independent State of Croatia. An organized persecution of Serbs, Jews and Roma people took place on the whole territory of Independent State of Croatia (including Bosnia and Herzegovina) soon after it was established. Ustaše wanted to cause conflicts between Muslims and Orthodox Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Therefore they recruited some members of Muslim population of Bosnia and Herzegovina to participate in the persecution of Serbs. They wore Muslim clothes and shouted Muslim names when they organized attacks on Serb population. Such activities resulted with armed conflicts between Serbs and Muslims. That was the reason why Muslims from many towns of Bosnia and Herzegovina declared their resolutions. Most notable are the resolutions of Muslims from Prijedor (September 23, 1941), Sarajevo (October 12, 1941), Mostar (October 21, 1941), Banja Luka (November 12, 1941), Bijeljina (December 2, 1941), Tuzla (December 11, 1941) and Zenica (May 26, 1942).

The resolution

The basis for the Resolution of Sarajevo Muslims was a resolution declared by El-Hidaje, an association of ulama from Bosnia and Herzegovina on its assembly held on August 14, 2011. It was written by Mehmed Handžić and Kasim Dobrača. All Muslim resolutions of 1941, including the Resolution of Sarajevo Muslims, contain the following elements:

*public condemning of the persecutions of the Serbs by Ustaše :puke:
*distancing from the Muslims who participated in such persecutions and protesting against the attempts to blame the whole Muslim population for the crimes of Ustaša
*presenting informations about the persecutions of Muslims

The conclusion of the Resolution of Sarajevo Muslims included request for providing the security for all citizens of the country, regardless of their identity, punishing the individuals responsible for the committed atrocities and helping the people who suffered during disorder.

The resolution was officially delivered to Jozo Dumandžić when he visited Sarajevo as minister in the government of Independent State of Croatia. By the order of Ante Pavelić, Dumandžić unsuccessfully attempted to force the signatories of the resolution to recall their signatures. Džafer Kulenović has also been ordered by Pavelić to force the signatories of the resolution to recall their signatures, but he failed too.

[Methmatician]

*public condemning of the persecutions of the Serbs by Ustaše :puke:

So if you're not killing Serbs, or supporting it, you're pro-Serb? Would that make you pro-Reagan just because you haven't shown any opposition towards him?

[Zmey Gorynych]

Bosniak traitor is a tautology my dear maiden :)

[Guapo]

Bosniak traitor is a tautology my dear maiden :)

Indeed

[Sultan Suleiman]

So if you're not killing Serbs, or supporting it, you're pro-Serb? Would that make you pro-Reagan just because you haven't shown any opposition towards him?

They risked interests and integrity of Bosniaks by trying to help a nation which has always been aggressive and detrimental to Bosniaks. For all I care we should have just let the Ustashe and National Socialists do whatever they were gonna do the Serbs and just embrace the result :)

These deviants deserved their fates, if you ask me.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Bosniak traitor is a tautology my dear maiden :)

Don't strain your pretty little head with these big words.

[Lucifer]

islam teaches us to be merciful and fight injustice, building your nation over hate and injustice is a big sin.
they did the good thing to do, not many people during wwii publicly stood up against oppression.

[Methmatician]

They risked interests and integrity of Bosniaks by trying to help a nation which has always been aggressive and detrimental to Bosniaks.

That's heroic. What you're supporting is the cowardice act of being quiet while other people die just so you're comfortable in your home.


These deviants deserved their fates, if you ask me.

They deserve more than you have. Maybe you should think about this the next time Bosniaks are persecuted and no one decides to help because of the attitudes of people like you.

[Sultan Suleiman]

That's heroic. What you're supporting is the cowardice act of being quiet while other people die just so you're comfortable in your home.

I support what ever is in best interest of Bosniaks, throwing our noses where they don't belong and risking the fate of Poles and Ukrainians by the hands of Germans is out right imbecilic and treason.

We have no use of dead "heroes", unlike alive and growing Bosniak populations we lost in the retarded effort to save the Serbs. :puke:


Maybe you should think about this the next time Bosniaks are persecuted and no one decides to help because of the attitudes of people like you.

Had there not be more of these "heroes" there would be less Serbs to back stab us in the 90s.

[Sultan Suleiman]

islam teaches us to be merciful and fight injustice, building your nation over hate and injustice is a big sin.

Had the Turks followed that retarded Sunni doctrine, Turkey didn't exist.

I love the fact that Turks ripped out the pages of what ever haddith book contained those "suggestions" and wiped their asses with them as they were dishing out the same un-Islamic treatment to Greeks and Armenians, the Turks were given in Balkans.

If the wrath of your Sunni Arab corpse gods is the only punishment Bosniaks would have received, then there isn't a sane man who would reject that trade :)


they did the good thing to do, not many people during wwii publicly stood up against oppression.

Traitors.

[Methmatician]

I support what ever is in best interest of Bosniaks, throwing our noses where they don't belong and risking the fate of Poles and Ukrainians by the hands of Germans is out right imbecilic and treason.

We have no use of dead "heroes", unlike alive and growing Bosniak populations we lost in the retarded effort to save the Serbs.

Being benevolent towards other groups is sorta like insurance incase you need their help. Humans are smart enough to think ahead, only animals are selfish. Do you think anyone is trying to help the North Korean citizens living under tyranny? Nope, and that's mainly because they didn't help anyone. The best interest of Bosniaks is to make friends with their neighbours. There aren't many Bosniaks, Bosnia isn't a superpower, it isn't even a regional one, so it's best to create relationships with other nations rather than isolate ourselves like the North Koreans who only receive help from China and that's only because they share the same ideology.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Being benevolent towards other groups is sorta like insurance incase you need their help.

I prefer my competition dead or incapacitated. The deader the better.

I will leave you with these liberal dreams for you to dream in your new home :thumb001:

[Methmatician]

I prefer my competition dead or incapacitated.

In other words, you hope to screw yourself and all your people at the expense of your non-existent pride.

[Sultan Suleiman]

In other words, you hope to screw yourself and all your people at the expense of your non-existent pride.

I don't see it that way.

[Methmatician]

I don't see it that way.

That's because you don't think like a normal person.

[Stefan_Dusan]

For every Muslim who helped an Orthodox in WW2 Bosnia, there were at least 10 who helped the Catholic Ustashe. Only in the Balkans can Catholic and Islam unite for the process of ridding Orthodox.

No matter, that's why Orthodox are tired of living with the Muslims in Bosnia. First under Ottomans you change your religion to rule your neighbors. Then you cooperate with Ustashe to get our businesses, our farms. And this is why now Bosnian Orthodox no longer answer to Muslim rule out of Sarajevo.

[Sultan Suleiman]

For every Muslim who helped an Orthodox in WW2 Bosnia, there were at least 10 who helped the Catholic Ustashe. Only in the Balkans can Catholic and Islam unite for the process of ridding Orthodox.

I wish it was so :)


No matter, that's why Orthodox are tired of living with the Muslims in Bosnia.

I see, so many have left it for Serbia and Western nations.


First under Ottomans you change your religion to rule your neighbors.

Had there been no Ottomans the Serbs would be non-existant in Bosnia, hell the only reason why there are Serbs in Bosnia it's because WE BROUGHT YOU OVER! Sadly we suffered the same thing the Americans with their negro slaves...


Then you cooperate with Ustashe to get our businesses, our farms.

They were never "your farms", before the perversion known as Kingdom of SHS, Bosniaks owned over 95% of the land in Bosnia and leased it to Serbs and the rest of the serfs.


And this is why now Bosnian Orthodox no longer answer to Muslim rule out of Sarajevo.

Well considering your demographic red zone and entire depopulate areas of Eastern Bosnia, that "disobedience" is of little concern to Bosniaks.

[Sultan Suleiman]

That's because you don't think like a normal person.

Said a traitor :)

[Stefan_Dusan]

I wish it was so :)



I see, so many have left it for Serbia and Western nations.

The Bosnian Muslim diaspora is the largest of all Balkan people. If I want food from ex-Yugoslava, I'm more likely to find Bosnian restaurant here than any other kind.




Had there been no Ottomans the Serbs would be non-existant in Bosnia, hell the only reason why there are Serbs in Bosnia it's because WE BROUGHT YOU OVER! Sadly we suffered the same thing the Americans with their negro slaves...

Depends on what region of Bosnia you're talking about. Eastern Bosnia has always been traditionally Serbian. In the other areas, Austrians used us as buffer troops as most of you were not fighters.



Well considering your demographic red zone and entire depopulate areas of Eastern Bosnia, that "disobedience" is of little concern to Bosniaks.

There are still many Bosnian Muslim towns without any Bosnian Men if you want to talk about depopulate. Lots of women though.

[meAyin-sixteen]

I'm not praising the intervention, I'm criticizing it for being inadequate and far too late. The Americans should take the blame for that, along with the Dutch who were stationed there.

This won't happen again, however. All Europeans are now aware of the situation, before no-one really knew about Bosnia.


This will happen again, nobody is not aware of anything and according to the peace plan, Bosnian Muslims are meant to dissolve in a sea of despair.

British and French peace mediators will unselfishly assist (as so many times before) in creating a new nation, they just have to choose a proper name for the people of Bosnia they´v so brutally abused.

The time is ticking by (Bye).

[Sultan Suleiman]

The Bosnian Muslim diaspora is the largest of all Balkan people. If I want food from ex-Yugoslava, I'm more likely to find Bosnian restaurant here than any other kind.

That is mathematically impossible :)


Depends on what region of Bosnia you're talking about. Eastern Bosnia has always been traditionally Serbian.

Serbs and Orthodoxy only existed in Northern Podrinje and southern Herzegovina. No where else, Podrinje has been a Catholic stronghold for centuries before the Ottoman invasion, so that dismiss another one of your claims.




In the other areas, Austrians used us as buffer troops as most of you were not fighters.

You do realize that Bosniaks consisted Elite KuK stormtroopers in the Austria while the Handzar division was proven more effective than any Serb military unit in WWII (and we fought against a foe which actually shot back)? Or that unlike you we stooped the Turks in battle of Bileća, while Serbs sucked a big cocksickle at Kosovo. So that tells us who is a greater warrior nation, unless you count in traditional Serb slaughter of unarmed, but that kind of slaughter with no honor only exists in lesser tribes :coffee:


There are still many Bosnian Muslim towns without any Bosnian Men if you want to talk about depopulate. Lots of women though.

Enjoy the read :) (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?63117-Bosnia-as-a-national-state-of-Bosniaks)

[Aunt Hilda]

how are these people traitors? they saved Bosniaks, they didn't betray anyone....

[Pepe Gonzalez]

List of Traitors Through History Of Bosniaks

- All Bosniaks.

[Stefan_Dusan]

That is mathematically impossible :)

Not really. We shifted 2 million of you around.


Serbs and Orthodoxy only existed in Northern Podrinje and southern Herzegovina. No where else, Podrinje has been a Catholic stronghold for centuries before the Ottoman invasion, so that dismiss another one of your claims.

The only Bogomil area was Lepenica which you expanded to include Serbian and Croatian territories. Bogomils are just confused heretical Croats or Serbs by blood or who converted under Islam under some vain attempt to regain supremacy.


You do realize that Bosniaks consisted Elite KuK stormtroopers in the Austria while the Handzar division was proven more effective than any Serb military unit in WWII (and we fought against a foe which actually shot back)? Or that unlike you we stooped the Turks in battle of Bileća, while Serbs sucked a big cocksickle at Kosovo. So that tells us who is a greater warrior nation, unless you count in traditional Serb slaughter of unarmed, but that kind of slaughter with no honor only exists in lesser tribes :coffee:


You can continue to invent myth, but facts are facts. Who did Austrians use as buffer against Turks? Serbs. Who liberated themselves from Turks? Serbs while you were just appropriated by A-H. Who then started WW1 to see your liberation? Serbs. Who were the first guerrilla outfit in WW2 against Germans? Serbs. Who did Germany intiate 100 to 1 death policy in response? Serbs. Who begged to NATO/UN during Bosnian war? You. Who now has to share power with Croats? You.

No people were as instrumental in 20th century as Serbs. You are footnote. Not even mentioned in first Kingdom of Yugoslavia (Slovenes, Croats, and Serbs).

Enjoy the read :) (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?63117-Bosnia-as-a-national-state-of-Bosniaks)[/QUOTE]

[Sultan Suleiman]

Not really. We shifted 2 million of you around.

There were less than 2 million Bosniaks in Bosnia at 90s, but hell if you weren't spewing mental BS I would start to question your Serbhood.


The only Bogomil area was Lepenica which you expanded to include Serbian and Croatian territories.

With this you prove that you have no idea of Balkanian history.


Bogomils are just confused heretical Croats or Serbs by blood or who converted under Islam under some vain attempt to regain supremacy.

By that logic, Croats and Serbs are nothing more than misguided heretics which need to be enlightened and converted to Islam, for their own benefit.



You can continue to invent myth, but facts are facts. Who did Austrians use as buffer against Turks?

Croats.

Austria only shared borders with Serbia for few decades at most. But you were a buffer for the Ottomans against Hungarians for centuries, and even there your combat achievements are at best mediocre.


Serbs.

Who was Jesus? A Serb!!! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B5MboMtlCE)


Who liberated themselves from Turks? Serbs

Once again you threw out remnants of a fragmented Empire, had this "liberation" occurred during the peak of Ottoman Empire in the 17th century, then your myths might have had some substance.

While for now, the "liberation" stand for what it really is. A multi pronged attack on the Ottoman empire which strangely resulted in your independence.


while you were just appropriated by A-H. Who then started WW1 to see your liberation? Serbs. Who were the first guerrilla outfit in WW2 against Germans? Serbs. Who did Germany intiate 100 to 1 death policy in response? Serbs.

Hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahah :lol:



Who begged to NATO/UN during Bosnian war? You.

Who begged the Russians and rest of Europe for 500 years that they remove Ottoman boot on your neck YOU!!!


Who now has to share power with Croats? You.

Who does have to bow their heads when they beg Bosniaks on state level for their approval for another IMF credit loan to cover the holes in the administrations of that silly broken para state?

You!

Actually not you, the elected representatives of what ever Serbs are left in Bosnia have to do that task


No people were as instrumental in 20th century as Serbs.

Of course :lol:

First man in space was a Serb, the internet is a Serbian invention, we wouldn't be able to breath air if the Celestial Nationals don't fart in unison on 12 of November to purify the upper heavens from all the sky demons :lol:


You are footnote.

How could we compete with mighty vanquishers of the evil sky demons and givers of oxygen :laugh:


Not even mentioned in first Kingdom of Yugoslavia (Slovenes, Croats, and Serbs).

A Kingdom whose one of the first imperatives was to ban the use of term Bosniak and Bosnian language, sure is a good measure.

[Lucifer]

this lasted 3 centuries, when yugoslavia, kingdom of whatever and big serbia were details of history.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Bosnia_Eyalet%2C_Central_europe_1683.png

what's fun is to see how a serb from america is interested by bosnia, i guess his own state isn't that intersting....or maybe some complexes.

[Stefan_Dusan]

By that logic, Croats and Serbs are nothing more than misguided heretics which need to be enlightened and converted to Islam, for their own benefit.

We have never traded the religion of our forefathers. The ones who have, we killed and disowned them. The disowned ones call themselves along with you.


Croats.

If that was true there would be no Serb settlements in Krajina.


Once again you threw out remnants of a fragmented Empire, had this "liberation" occurred during the peak of Ottoman Empire in the 17th century, then your myths might have had some substance.

We won it nevertheless. And we came close in 17th century (along with Austrian army) why Kosovo and Macedonia is in present demographic state. Serbs were the only ethnic group Ottomans bothered trying to destroy in at that point, their northern territories.



While for now, the "liberation" stand for what it really is. A multi pronged attack on the Ottoman empire which strangely resulted in your independence.

After Serbs secured our independence for majority of Serbs, we turned our attention to neighbors and our historic territory (Kosovo). Serb and Bulgarian troops would have entered Constantinople and made kebabs of Turks if it wasn't for Great Powers (mainly Germany and UK) saving Ottoman Empire. We took Edirne which Germans took special attention in fortifying and called it "un takebale." While you were cleaning stables for A-H and smoking your Nargile.



Who begged the Russians and rest of Europe for 500 years that they remove Ottoman boot on your neck YOU!!!

We were ruled by Ottomans for 300 years, not 500. Last 100 years of that rule did we start to come into contact with Russians who did not offer much assistance except to Bulgars. We never begged them, we won our freedom ourselves, the only Balkan people to do so.


A Kingdom whose one of the first imperatives was to ban the use of term Bosniak and Bosnian language, sure is a good measure.

To call what you a speak an entirely different language is the biggest insecurity complex I have ever heard. At least some Croatian dialects I have trouble understanding.

[Stefan_Dusan]

this lasted 3 centuries, when yugoslavia, kingdom of whatever and big serbia were details of history.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Bosnia_Eyalet%2C_Central_europe_1683.png

what's fun is to see how a serb from america is interested by bosnia, i guess his own state isn't that intersting....or maybe some complexes.

It's a name of a region, not a people. Bosniaks only exist in soul not blood. Your biggest claim in history was when we killed you.

Anyways, I'm a contractor and Kosovo Serb.

[Lucifer]

the only serbian buffer was made by ottomans in krajina and those were vlachs.
bosniak is indeed by soul, something you don't have.
oh and contractor, i'm chiko i'm a koala bear...and kosovo is a republic.

[Stefan_Dusan]

the only serbian buffer was made by ottomans in krajina and those were vlachs.
bosniak is indeed by soul, something you don't have.

They are some of the purest Serbs by blood. Serbs from Vojvodina have mixed too much with Hungarians and share those traits. We have slur for northern Serbs-lale-rough translation meaning soft.

[Stefan_Dusan]

the only serbian buffer was made by ottomans in krajina and those were vlachs.
bosniak is indeed by soul, something you don't have.
oh and contractor, i'm chiko i'm a koala bear...and kosovo is a republic.

Depends on which side of Ibar river you are. I will be there this August 2nd to see my family.

[Lucifer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs_of_Croatia

my grandparents never called serbs serbs, but always vlachs (those who lived in our area), it's only my parents generation that started to call serbs serbs because of communist education and vlach was rather an ethnic slur.

[Stefan_Dusan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs_of_Croatia

my grandparents never called serbs serbs, but always vlachs (those who lived in our area), it's only my parents generation that started to call serbs serbs because of communist education and vlach was rather an ethnic slur.

I know that especially Croatians but even you Bosnian Muslims like to think of us as backwards and primitive. We think of you as soft, down to your accent. Though your accent sounds nice on women.

[CrystalMaiden]

So what is with all of these butt hurt Half Turks?

[CrystalMaiden]

I know that especially Croatians but even you Bosnian Muslims like to think of us as backwards and primitive.

And you prove that with every single post :)

[CrystalMaiden]

We have never traded the religion of our forefathers. The ones who have, we killed and disowned them.

You really have no idea of your own history and now you want to teach us our own, so cute :)


The disowned ones call themselves along with you.

They made a good choice.


If that was true there would be no Serb settlements in Krajina.

So you are proud of your people being the canon fodder for Austrians?


We won it nevertheless.

You are making such a big fuss of a one year campaign against a crumbling Empire :lol:



Serbs were the only ethnic group Ottomans bothered trying to destroy in at that point, their northern territories.

Ottomans never aimed at "exterminating ethnic groups" in their empire, had there been a planned extermination of Serbs, you and I wouldn't be having this little dreadful conversation.



After Serbs secured our independence for majority of Serbs, we turned our attention to neighbors and our historic territory (Kosovo). Serb and Bulgarian troops would have entered Constantinople and made kebabs of Turks if it wasn't for Great Powers (mainly Germany and UK) saving Ottoman Empire. We took Edirne which Germans took special attention in fortifying and called it "un takebale." While you were cleaning stables for A-H and smoking your Nargile.

At that time we were still recuperating from Jewish, Serbian and Turkish betrayals.


We were ruled by Ottomans for 300 years, not 500.

Have you checked the dates when Serbia was vassalized and when it "own" her freedom?


Last 100 years of that rule did we start to come into contact with Russians who did not offer much assistance except to Bulgars. We never begged them, we won our freedom ourselves, the only Balkan people to do so.

The late 18th century is a century known among your own people as "the age of lobbying" and petty rebellions in which you suffered massive casualties, ei begging for intervention from one court to another.



To call what you a speak an entirely different language is the biggest insecurity complex I have ever heard. At least some Croatian dialects I have trouble understanding.

You speak MY language, Serb.

[Stefan_Dusan]

I can't take this seriously. A woman who professes Islam yet argues with a man. Understand your religion before you try to understand politics.

Just one quick point:


Have you checked the dates when Serbia was vassalized and when it "own" her freedom?

The majority of Serbs were conquered in late 1400s and earned independence in early 1800s. So about 350 years. After Kosovo battle, Serbia kingdom fragmented into many regions all ruled independently. Some were vassals of Turks to beat their neighbors, however every single one of these fought the Turks when they tried to conquer the region again in the mid 1400s (and were finally successful by late 1400s).

[dado]

No, I regard them as heroes. Remember how Europe saved you guys. We will do it again if necessary, Bosnia is a child of Europe. Part of the family.

actually Europe didn't do shit to stop war

[Guapo]

You speak MY language, Serb.

No you speak serbo-croatian.

[Stefan_Dusan]

No you speak serbo-croatian.

She speaks Serbian, and has an inferiority complex. At her age she should be married, have some kids, and do her husband's desires. Not argue politics with men.

[Guapo]

She speaks Serbian, and has an inferiority complex. At her age she should be married, have some kids, wear a burka and not make-up, and do her husband's desires. Not argue politics with men.

fixed

[CrystalMaiden]

I can't take this seriously. A woman who professes Islam yet argues with a man. Understand your religion before you try to understand politics.

If you are going to play that card, then okay :o

Neither can I. A kaffir who thinks he can out play me in my own game...


The majority of Serbs were conquered in late 1400s and earned independence in early 1800s. So about 350 years. After Kosovo battle, Serbia kingdom fragmented into many regions all ruled independently. Some were vassals of Turks to beat their neighbors, however every single one of these fought the Turks when they tried to conquer the region again in the mid 1400s (and were finally successful by late 1400s).

Serbs won their independence in the mid 19th century, your attempts to portray a megger autonomy as freedom is ridiculous. Or will you conjure some proof in which you prove your own historians wrong :D

[CrystalMaiden]

She speaks Serbian, and has an inferiority complex. At her age she should be married, have some kids, and do her husband's desires. Not argue politics with men.

There is no such thing as a "Serbian language", there is a Language spoken by Serbs. The language which has for centuries been known as Bosnian.

[Guapo]

the only serbian buffer was made by ottomans in krajina and those were vlachs.
bosniak is indeed by soul, something you don't have.
oh and contractor, i'm chiko i'm a koala bear...and kosovo is a republic.

Bosna is a Vlach word, stop using it.


There is no such thing as a "Serbian language", there is a Language spoken by Serbs. The language which has for centuries been known as Bosnian.

and then you woke up

[CrystalMaiden]

and then you woke up

And you realized your tr00 roots and Embrace Kebab!!!

[Stefan_Dusan]

Serbs won their independence in the mid 19th century, your attempts to portray a megger autonomy as freedom is ridiculous. Or will you conjure some proof in which you prove your own historians wrong :D

We won our independence in 1804, stunned Europe. No one recognized us, and by 1813, the Turks reclaimed. By 1817 we re-won. Our recognition claim later as great powers were unsure how to proceed. We were independent and our soldiers went to Greece and created rebellion.

[Guapo]

And you realized your tr00 roots and Embrace Kebab!!!

No i'll stay to my tr00 roots unlike your ancestors that embraced keb0b

[Stefan_Dusan]

No i'll stay to my tr00 roots unlike your ancestors that embraced keb0b

She should be making kebabs for her man and not posting stupidity. That's how you embrace kebab.

[CrystalMaiden]

We won our independence in 1804, stunned Europe. No one recognized us, and by 1813, the Turks reclaimed. By 1817 we re-won. Our recognition claim later as great powers were unsure how to proceed. We were independent and our soldiers went to Greece and created rebellion.

Your own historians claim 1867 as a year one of Serb independance xD

But I am glad that you have arguments which can refute their claims, now if you were only willing to share them with us, that would be great :coffee:

[CrystalMaiden]

No i'll stay to my tr00 roots unlike your ancestors that embraced keb0b

But you are a Boznyak.

Kebab is in your bl00d!!!

[Stefan_Dusan]

Your own historians claim 1867 as a year one of Serb independance xD

But I am glad that you have arguments which can refute their claims, now if you were only willing to share them with us, that would be great :coffee:

1867 was formal recognition by Great Powers.

Just as Kosovo "independence" some take a while to recognize.

[Guapo]

She should be making kebabs for her man and not posting stupidity. That's how you embrace kebab.

she might even be a he

[Stefan_Dusan]

she might even be a he

So Bosnian men like to pretend to be women on internet?

[CrystalMaiden]

There's no such thing as Serbs or Croats, only unconverted Bosniaks!


:lol:

[CrystalMaiden]

she might even be a he

And you would like that...

I am disappoint Guapo :(

[gregorius]

I would eat some Kebab now

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_map8wrOwEd1r4xw3qo1_500.jpg

[Guapo]

So Bosnian men like to pretend to be women on internet?

:crazy:

[Lucifer]

So Bosnian men like to pretend to be women on internet?

or koalas bears.

between is this tradition of a father having intercourse with his son's wife still apllied among serbs, it had a name i forgot it :confused:

[CrystalMaiden]

:crazy:

You really want that you bend over and get some back door action?

Now we just need to ask Luna for the strap-on

[Guapo]

or koalas bears.

between is this tradition of a father having intercourse with his son's wife still apllied among serbs, it had a name i forgot it :confused:

That's how you were conceived, djed je babo, babo je djed jeli glupane :lmao:

[Stefan_Dusan]

or koalas bears.

It doesn't surprise me. Bosnian Muslim are people of pretenders. So I'm sure on individual level they imagine them to be everything from women to koala bears.

[Guapo]

You really want that you bend over and get some back door action?

Now we just need to ask Luna for the strap-on

Don't tease Arbërori


It doesn't surprise me. Bosnian Muslim are people of pretenders. So I'm sure on individual level they imagine them to be everything from women to koala bears.

Indeed :rotfl:

[CrystalMaiden]

That's how you were conceived, djed je babo, babo je djed jeli glupane :lmao:

You chose that your dad buggers your wife, over a harem?

I am disappoint Guapo...

[Guapo]

You chose that your dad buggers your wife, over a harem?

I am disappoint Guapo...

Your posts trying to troll are dissapoint.

[Arbërori]

Don't tease Arbërori

Time to accept Kebabism, big boy.

[CrystalMaiden]

Your posts trying to troll are dissapoint.

There is no trolling here lost one.

I am your shepherd, leading you back to your true flock and the One True Kebab!!

[CrystalMaiden]

It doesn't surprise me. Bosnian Muslim are people of pretenders. So I'm sure on individual level they imagine them to be everything from women to koala bears.

Well we still have to catch up with the sky people...

[Lucifer]

That's how you were conceived, djed je babo, babo je djed jeli glupane :lmao:


http://crnogorskapitanja.wordpress.com/2013/01/28/cudni-srpski-obicaji-pravo-prve-bracne-noci-snohacenstvo-incest/

here, snohacestvo it's called.

[Cokolino]

No wonder why some people think CM and the Sultan
are the same person :P

You two are a match made in heaven... or hell :D

[Guapo]

http://crnogorskapitanja.wordpress.com/2013/01/28/cudni-srpski-obicaji-pravo-prve-bracne-noci-snohacenstvo-incest/

here, snohacestvo it's called.

Right, heres a bosniak tradition.

http://www.kurir-info.rs/ekrem-prstima-brise-dupe-pa-kida-hleb-clanak-50489

Now go get bitch-slapped by your muslim wife , no wonder bosnians lost war against Serbian men.

[Sisak]

Europeans didn't save anyone.

It was under supervisions of Westerners that a arms embargo was cast on Bosnia, leaving my people defencless for years in which I have lost so much. So if you ask me, I would prefer that there wasn't any "saving" done from European part :puke:

Koliko ja znam zapadne zemlje nisu dopustilo nikome da dodju kod njih? Izbjeglice su mogle samo doci u Hrvatsku?

[Gorštak]

I guess Western Europeans who saved Bosniaks from the Serb Army were also traitors, then.

Please Western Europeans, don't ever come again to save us as you did last time.
Just don't again ban import of weapons in Bosnia and we will not need you.

And everybody who saved life of inocent is hero, not traitor.

[Shah-Jehan]

Please Western Europeans, don't ever come again to save us as you did last time.
Just don't again ban import of weapons in Bosnia and we will not need you.

And everybody who saved life of inocent is hero, not traitor.

She's so anti-semitic(not only to Jews but, also to Arabs) for e.g. in one post she said the Arabic script was squiggly terrorist writing or something...

[Gorštak]

She's so anti-semitic(not only to Jews but, also to Arabs) for e.g. in one post she said the Arabic script was squiggly terrorist writing or something...

It's freedom of expression, what can we do;)

[Shah-Jehan]

It's freedom of expression, what can we do;)

Well, hey what can I say? when you read people like Anglojewrk's post, this is what happens to you, if you can't handle the hate, you begin to spread hate...

[Gorštak]

Well, hey what can I say? when you read people like Anglojewrk's post, this is what happens to you, if you can't handle the hate, you begin to spread hate...

I would not dare to judge entire nations based on their forums representatives:p

[Shah-Jehan]

I would not dare to judge entire nations based on their forums representatives:p

Too bad CM is not like that:(...

[Hurrem sultana]

Hardaga family moved to Israel,the daughter is now a proud jew.Bosnia is a better place now ;) saving innocent people is good yes,but converting to the religion of them is just weird

[Philo]

I would not dare to judge entire nations based on their forums representatives:p

It's very hard you know, it's easier said than done :p

[Petros Houhoulis]

I would not dare to judge entire nations based on their forums representatives:p

Oh, but you can come to the Greek section and try to judge all Greeks according to your perception of me. Don't worry about that, I can make a fool of you in any section of the Apricity...

[Petros Houhoulis]

Hardaga family moved to Israel,the daughter is now a proud jew.Bosnia is a better place now ;) saving innocent people is good yes,but converting to the religion of them is just weird

For Bosnians converting to Satanism as an option to escape Bosnia is a 1000% valid choice... Nobody should misjudge them about it...

[Gorštak]

Oh, but you can come to the Greek section and try to judge all Greeks according to your perception of me. Don't worry about that, I can make a fool of you in any section of the Apricity...

I don't judge Greeks based on you, don't think you're so important :rolleyes:
I judge them based on Pontios:lol:

[Petros Houhoulis]

I don't judge Greeks based on you, don't think you're so important :rolleyes:
I judge them based on Pontios:lol:

Pontios is a self-declared Roman who claims that the Greeks are no more since the Ancient times.

How the fuck can you judge the Greeks based upon him?

[Gorštak]

Pontios is a self-declared Roman who claims that the Greeks are no more since the Ancient times.

How the fuck can you judge the Greeks based upon him?

He's fanatic Orthodox, Serbs lover and don't know shit about Balkan wars but he love to write about them, I don't expect anything more from a Greek.
But you're still worse Greek representative than himxD

[Petros Houhoulis]

He's fanatic Orthodox, Serbs lover and don't know shit about Balkan wars but he love to write about them, I don't expect anything more from a Greek.
But you're still worse Greek representative than himxD

Only problem he is not a Greek according to his own words. As a non-Greek he cannot be a representative of Greeks.

I demand that you christen me the representative of the Greeks in Bosnian affairs and return to the Greek section to defend the Turks' actions in Cyprus or the integrity of Demosthenes so that I can tear you a new one again and again and again...

[Gorštak]

Only problem he is not a Greek according to his own words. As a non-Greek he cannot be a representative of Greeks.

I demand that you christen me the representative of the Greeks in Bosnian affairs and return to the Greek section to defend the Turks' actions in Cyprus or the integrity of Demosthenes so that I can tear you a new one again and again and again...

I never wrote anything about Cyprus. It's sad that Muslims and Orthodox Turks do such a things to each others.