Where does prognathism come from?

[King Claus]

Considering all people on this planet are equally evolved, where does prognathism come from?

[King Claus]

http://i42.tinypic.com/okv8g9.jpg http://i43.tinypic.com/o7k2lw.jpg

[Lusos]

Prognathism is well recorded as a trait of several historical individuals. The most famous case is that of the House of Habsburg, among whom mandibular prognathism was a family trait; indeed, the condition is frequently called "Habsburg Jaw" as a result of its centuries-long association with the family. Among the Habsburgs, the most prominent case of mandibular prognathism is that of Charles II of Spain, who had prognathism so pronounced he could neither speak clearly nor chew as a result of generations of politically motivated inbreeding.

[Albion]

It can occur in any race and is probably a result of humans farming instead of eating tougher foods.

[King Claus]

It can occur in any race and is probably a result of humans farming instead of eating tougher foods.

I've seen also asian and white examples, but the more extreme cases are from africa i think.
So what kind of tougher food do you suggest africans eat?

[Lusos]

Alveolar prognathism


Alveolar prognathism, caused by thumb sucking and tongue thrusting in a 7 year old girl.
Not all alveolar prognathism is anomalous, and significant differences can be observed among different ethnic groups.
Harmful habits such as thumb sucking or tongue thrusting can result in or exaggerate an alveolar prognathism, causing teeth to misalign. Functional appliances can be used in growing children to help modify bad habits and neuro-muscular function, with the aim of correcting this condition.
Alveolar prognathism can also easily be corrected with fixed orthodontic therapy. However, relapse is quite common, unless the cause is removed or a long-term retention is used.
Maxillary prognathism
In disease states, maxillary prognathism is associated with Cornelia de Lange Syndrome; however, so-called false maxillary prognathism, or more accurately, retrognathism, where there is a lack of growth of the mandible, is by far a more common condition.
Prognathism, if not extremely severe, can be treated in growing patients with orthodontic functional or orthopaedic appliances. In adult patients this condition can be corrected by means of a combined surgical/orthodontic treatment, where most of the time a mandibular advancement is performed. The same can be said for mandibular prognathism.
Mandibular prognathism (progenism)
Pathologic mandibular prognathism is a potentially disfiguring genetic disorder where the lower jaw outgrows the upper, resulting in an extended chin.
This condition is colloquially known as Habsburg jaw, Habsburg lip or Austrian Lip (see House of Habsburg) due to its prevalence in that bloodline. The trait is easily traceable in portraits of Habsburg family members. This has provided tools for people interested in studying genetics and pedigree analysis. Most instances are considered polygenetic.
It is alleged to have been derived through a female from the princely Polish family of Piasts, its Masovian branch. The deformation of lips is clearly visible on tomb sculptures of Mazovian Piasts in the St. John's Cathedral in Warsaw. However this may be, there exists evidence that the trait is longstanding. It is perhaps first observed in Maximilian I (1459–1519).
Traits such as these that were common to royal families are believed to have been passed on and exaggerated over time through royal intermarriage which caused acute inbreeding. Due to the large amount of politically motivated intermarriage among Habsburgs, the dynasty was virtually unparalleled in the degree of its inbreeding. Charles II of Spain is said to have had the most pronounced case of the Habsburg jaw on record. His jaw was so deformed that he was unable to chew.
Many dog breeds have underbite, particularly those with short faces, like Shih Tzus and Boxers. This may be due, as in the case of bulldogs, to a slower growing maxilla in relation to the mandible.

[riverman]

Interesting thread.

[ABest]

It does occur in all races. However, SSA peoples manifest the trait at much higher rates.

[Anglojew]

Primates

http://www.metaprimate.com/IMG/profiles.png

Which lead to racists linking monkeys to Africans;

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-taZUSh2G05c/UZZPgGZCrTI/AAAAAAAAGUY/kYwve5ozMhI/s640/Prognathism.jpg

[Lusos]

Mixing Its not good,Inbreeding Its not good.
It's all a balance.
Best thing to do is to mix with other Europeans.We got enough variety.So Its not mixing and Its not really Inbreeding.

[Roy]

In some races (Negroid-Congoid, Sudanid) and among East Asian/Polynesian/Malayid population prognathism is an anthropological norm. Among Europeans it is the problem of occlusion.

[Lusos]

In some races (Negroid-Congoid, Sudanid) and among East Asian/Polynesian/Malayid population prognathism is an anthropological norm. Among Europeans it is the problem of occlusion.


You mean.
Malocclusion

[Loki]

Interesting thread.

Troll thread (made by Dexter to troll black people, especially ZnZn). Clear as daylight.

If he genuinely wants to discuss prognathism, he can look much closer to home, like for instance the known prognathism that occurred in Habsburg noble families.

[Lusos]

Malocclusion is the result of the body trying to optimize its function in a dysfunctional environment. It can be associated with a number of problems, including crooked teeth, gum problems, the temporomandibular joint (TMJ), and jaw muscles. Teeth, fillings, and crowns may wear, break, or loosen, and teeth may be tender or ache. Receding gums can be exacerbated by a faulty bite. If the jaw is mispositioned, jaw muscles may have to work harder, which can lead to fatigue and or muscle spasms. This in turn can lead to headaches or migraines, eye or sinus pain, and pain in the neck, shoulder, or even back. Malocclusion can be a contributing factor to sleep disordered breathing which may include snoring, upper airway resistance syndrome, and / or sleep apnea (apnea means without breath). Untreated damaging malocclusion can lead to occlusal trauma.
Some of the treatments for different occlusal problems include protecting the teeth with dental splints (orthotics), tooth adjustments, replacement of teeth, medication (usually temporary), a diet of softer foods, TENS to relax tensed muscles, and relaxation therapy for stress-related clenching. Removable dental appliances may be used to alter the development of the jaws. Fixed appliances such as braces may be used to move the teeth in the jaws. Jaw surgery is also used to correct malocclusion.

[Lusos]

Troll thread (made by Dexter to troll black people, especially ZnZn. Clear as daylight.

If he genuinely wants to discuss prognathism, he can look much closer to home, like for instance the known prognathism that occurred in Habsburg noble families.

It was common between Monarchs all over the World.They would shag their own sister or Mother for titles and money.Alas for power

[Anglojew]

In some races (Negroid-Congoid, Sudanid) and among East Asian/Polynesian/Malayid population prognathism is an anthropological norm. Among Europeans it is the problem of occlusion.

Why do you think that is? Eg evolutionary advantage? Diet? Etc?

[Anglojew]

It was common between Monarchs all over the World.They would shag their own sister or Mother for titles and money.Alas for power

They do tend to be inbreds. I think the British/Australian Queen and Prince Phillip are 4th cousins.

[Anglojew]

Malocclusion is the result of the body trying to optimize its function in a dysfunctional environment. It can be associated with a number of problems, including crooked teeth, gum problems, the temporomandibular joint (TMJ), and jaw muscles. Teeth, fillings, and crowns may wear, break, or loosen, and teeth may be tender or ache. Receding gums can be exacerbated by a faulty bite. If the jaw is mispositioned, jaw muscles may have to work harder, which can lead to fatigue and or muscle spasms. This in turn can lead to headaches or migraines, eye or sinus pain, and pain in the neck, shoulder, or even back. Malocclusion can be a contributing factor to sleep disordered breathing which may include snoring, upper airway resistance syndrome, and / or sleep apnea (apnea means without breath). Untreated damaging malocclusion can lead to occlusal trauma.
Some of the treatments for different occlusal problems include protecting the teeth with dental splints (orthotics), tooth adjustments, replacement of teeth, medication (usually temporary), a diet of softer foods, TENS to relax tensed muscles, and relaxation therapy for stress-related clenching. Removable dental appliances may be used to alter the development of the jaws. Fixed appliances such as braces may be used to move the teeth in the jaws. Jaw surgery is also used to correct malocclusion.

Do negroids have dental problems?

[King Claus]

Troll thread (made by Dexter to troll black people, especially ZnZn. Clear as daylight.

If he genuinely wants to discuss prognathism, he can look much closer to home, like for instance the known prognathism that occurred in Habsburg noble families.

nah mate, i'm not trolling.
Habsburg prognathism is different from that in africans.
I also think that you can link habsburg pronagthism to the neanderthals.

[Anglojew]

Troll thread (made by Dexter to troll black people, especially ZnZn. Clear as daylight.

If he genuinely wants to discuss prognathism, he can look much closer to home, like for instance the known prognathism that occurred in Habsburg noble families.

But, as pointed out on an African forum, the Hapsburgs were part-Negroid which might account for this trait;

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=006808

[Loki]

nah mate, i'm not trolling.


Maybe you just like Africans very much then, my apologies :)

You seem to be quite fascinated with them (looking at your signature too).

[King Claus]

Maybe you just like Africans very much then, my apologies :)

You seem to be quite fascinated with them (looking at your signature too).

i had one of jews, muslims ( which got deleted) i thought, maybe i take a negroid picture to make sure i'm not discriminating.

[King Claus]

i had one of jews, muslims ( which got deleted) i thought, maybe i take a negroid picture to make sure i'm not discriminating.

Furthermore, I think africans are indeed an intresting species to look at.

[Lusos]

Do negroids have dental problems?AngloJew
Everyone does.
But no ethnic group suffers Genetically from prognathism.

Diets are important for the health of the mouth as a whole.Ours(Westerners diet)can be quite damaging to the teeth.This with the lack of hygiene will give,as we know rotten teeth and gums with severe inflammations.
Where prognathism originates no one knows.But obviously with People mixing together prognathism had spread.

[King Claus]

Could there be a link between prognathism and sloping foreheads?

[Anglojew]

AngloJew
Everyone does.
But no ethnic group suffers Genetically from prognathism.

Diets are important for the health of the mouth as a whole.Ours(Westerners diet)can be quite damaging to the teeth.This with the lack of hygiene will give,as we know rotten teeth and gums with severe inflammations.
Where prognathism originates no one knows.But obviously with People mixing together prognathism had spread.

But if its only diet related (nurture) why do Western African- descended (Negroids in the West) people still have prognathism?

[Loki]

But if its only diet related (nurture) why do Western African- descended (Negroids in the West) people still have prognathism?

It could be due to natural selection, i.e. partners being preferred who show prognathistic traits. It could be attractive, in other words.

[Roy]

They do tend to be inbreds. I think the British/Australian Queen and Prince Phillip are 4th cousins.


It was common between Monarchs all over the World.They would shag their own sister or Mother for titles and money.Alas for power


Prognathism among Habsburg family was supposedly started by Cymbarka Mazowiecka - Polish princess. This is not a result of inbreeding in itself, but it become magnified because of it. Among Borbons this feature is also prevalent; because there's a lot of Habsburg or Wittenberg blood in them, they were the carriers.




http://www.libertas.pl/20110825523-Ernest_i_Cymbarka.jpg

Borbon samples

Charles IV Bourbon

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1c/Carlos_Mar%C3%ADa_Isidro.JPG/250px-Carlos_Mar%C3%ADa_Isidro.JPG

Juan Carlos. (mild case yet still noticeable)

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/lauren-collins/juan-carlos.jpg


Interesting article on the mutual affinity of the royal families. link. It seems that they could be even more inbred than we think (they're all closely and descendend from Capetians or Franks in general),

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/steve-jones/8496176/Royal-wedding-branches-from-one-family-tree.html

[mr. logan]

Neanderthal mix misconfiguration. I think Dexter Morgan is right, and it has relationship with sloping foreheads.

[King Claus]

It could be due to natural selection, i.e. partners being preferred who show prognathistic traits. It could be attractive, in other words.

who knows, you might be evne right! I bet that people with prognathism give better blow jobs.

[Methusalem]

Troll thread (made by Dexter to troll black people, especially ZnZn). Clear as daylight.

If he genuinely wants to discuss prognathism, he can look much closer to home, like for instance the known prognathism that occurred in Habsburg noble families.

Yep and the funny thing is that prognathism does not occur in the Horn of Africa.^^

[Lusos]

Scientist don't give a origin.

15th-century king/emperor Frederick(III?) inherited the trait from his mother Cymbarka, a Mazovian princess. It became prominent in the family later because of inbreeding.
This is the first recorded case.(s).

They did find the Gene that causes It.
"Mandibular prognathism is assumed to be a polygenic trait in the vast majority of cases. In a few families, this phenotype and perhaps a syndrome with a broader spectrum of facial anomalies seems to be determined by a single dominant gene of very low frequency (McKusick No *176700). The phenotype is known to have occurred independently in several European noble families. We constructed a pedigree comprising 13 of these families with 409 members in 23 generations in which mandibular prognathism has been segregating. Obviously, the presumed dominant gene is not fully penetrant in the heterozygous state. Pedigree analysis using the Elston-Stewart algorithm yields a maximum likelihood estimate (MLE) of p = 0.955 (SE 0.038) of the penetrance parameter."

[Methusalem]

Neanderthal mix misconfiguration. I think Dexter Morgan is right, and it has relationship with sloping foreheads.

Not really. Many Negroid subraces have prognathic or mesognathic jaws but zero browbridge/sloping foreheads.

In fact Negroids have one for them typical neotenic-infantile forehead shape(doomed/high). Whereas significantly more on average, Europids/Australoids have sloping/low foreheads in combination with brow bridge. Similar to early archaic Homo sapiens forms. Regarding the forehead shape, Mongolids are between Negroids and Europids/Australoids.

Negrid > Mongolid > Europid

1. Homo neanderthalensis 2. Europid type 3. Mongolid type 4. Negrid type

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg812/scaled.php?server=812&filename=headshape.png&res=medium


A Negroid with browbridge and a sloping forehead looks automatically like an Australoid(Melanesid in this case):

http://richard.stanaway.net/gallery/people/LTzbo04_jerry.jpg

[Harkonnen]

Well if we are talking about the kinda prognathism where the whole jaw, chin and mouth area protrudes in profile in this kinda jutting way & jaw is very elongated with the 90 degree jaw angle, one good explanation for this could be because excessive amounts of growth hormones during puberty. If it's just the maxillary kinda wacky way then that's a whole different ballgame with receding chin and stuff.

[Harkonnen]

Yep and the funny thing is that prognathism does not occur in the Horn of Africa.^^

Yeah I was about to make a comment. Exactly so :thumb001:

[mr. logan]

Incest breeds may have the trait too. Nature misconfigures individuals who are not apt to breed on. In this case, possibly shortening the lifespan too, cause of insufficient nutrients intake.
In the horn of Africa, bone structure is weaker, individuals tend to be gracile, so prognathism could not be handled by the bodies. And interbreeding with neanderthal type of negroids doesn´t occur in this zone frequently.

[Loki]

Nature misconfigures individuals who are not apt to breed on.

Cruel, eh? :)

[tEhSaint]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS03TYfpTBxXlo4rwSDFuvzSR34uFWbI tART_5xsx9Qy6T3SDqtSg

[Roy]

Now after some browsing of Wikipedia I got to know that prognathism among Habsburg was present before Cymbarka so she can't be regarded as a main suspected. Some interesting curiosities about her:


Tradition has it that she was also known for her exceptional strength, which, for example, she showed by driving nails into the wall with her bare hands and cracking nuts between her fingers. Strength also distinguished one of her descendants, Augustus II the Strong, who used to break horseshoes with his bare hands. Cymburgis outlived her husband and died at Türnitz in present-day Lower Austria. She is buried at Lilienfeld Abbey.

[King Claus]

Not really. Many Negroid subraces have prognathic or mesognathic jaws but zero browbridge/sloping foreheads.

In fact Negroids have one for them typical neotenic-infantile forehead shape(doomed/high). Whereas significantly more on average, Europids/Australoids have sloping/low foreheads in combination with brow bridge. Similar to early archaic Homo sapiens forms. Regarding the forehead shape, Mongolids are between Negroids and Europids/Australoids.

Negrid > Mongolid > Europid

1. Homo neanderthalensis 2. Europid type 3. Mongolid type 4. Negrid type

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg812/scaled.php?server=812&filename=headshape.png&res=medium


A Negroid with browbridge and a sloping forehead looks automatically like an Australoid(Melanesid in this case):

http://richard.stanaway.net/gallery/people/LTzbo04_jerry.jpg

ha, lame examples you used. Look at this than:) http://i40.tinypic.com/a2x8nt.jpg

[tEhSaint]

ha, lame examples you used. Look at this than:) http://i40.tinypic.com/a2x8nt.jpg

:lol00002::dielaughing:

[King Claus]

The legend goes that white irish have had some cases of prognathism http://i41.tinypic.com/2uypt37.jpg

[tEhSaint]

Here is another good example:

http://i.imgur.com/g6RBaN6.jpg

It is obvious that evolution didn't favor a lot some Negroid races.

Also, I don't think it is bad, or "an act of racism" to correlate Negroid phenotypes with prognathism, since its rather obvious. So, with very high probability prognathism came from Africa, and it got diluted while people arrived and evolved in nowadays Europe lands.

[riverman]

The legend goes that white irish have had some cases of prognathism http://i41.tinypic.com/2uypt37.jpg

Seems silly to me, irish types often have a very different look from the one portrayed. Incidentally, the low sloping forehead ZnZn is referring to is present among certain European individuals only, it is by no means the 'norm'. The occurrence of such a trait is most likely regional.

[Methusalem]

ha, lame examples you used. Look at this than:) http://i40.tinypic.com/a2x8nt.jpg

Both examples have an archaic-primitive browbridge.

[Methusalem]

Here is another good example:

http://i.imgur.com/g6RBaN6.jpg

It is obvious that evolution didn't favor a lot some Negroid races.

Also, I don't think it is bad, or "an act of racism" to correlate Negroid phenotypes with prognathism, since its rather obvious. So, with very high probability prognathism came from Africa, and it got diluted while people arrived and evolved in nowadays Europe lands.

It has been claimed repeatedly that Negroids are in terms of homonization level behind Europids(Caucasoids) and Mongolids. This is often justified in terms of their cranial capacity and non-orthognathic jaw shape. In reality, there was a similarly strong intraspecific selection competition within the Negroid race spectrum - compared to Mongolids and Europids.
Negroids have therefore - compared to Europids and Mongolids - Negroid-specific progressive tendencies. However, not all alike, if one compares the Nilotid type (relatively progressive), the Sudanid type (relatively progressive with primitivisms) and the classic Paleanegrid type (relatively primitive and infantile-reduced).

While interestingly the primitive variants have even more archaic gene variants (Paleanegrids, Bambutids, Sanids) than the (relatively to) progressive Negroid forms(Sudanids/Nilotids).

1.Forehead shape

Negroids have one for them typical neotenic-infantile forehead shape(doomed/high). Whereas significantly more on average, Europids have sloping/low foreheads in combination with brow bridge. Similar to early archaic Homo sapiens forms. Regarding the forehead shape, Mongolids are between Negroids and Europids.

Negrid > Mongolid > Europid

2.Skin texture

Negroids have a smooth-shiny skin, facial features with soft lines and more subcutaneous fat in the facial area, often despite clear leptosome habitus and low body fat percentage. This is due to intraspecific sexual selection process, and thus a clear derivation from archaic homonids. Whereas these features among Caucasoids and Mongolids are missing or are not very pronounced.

The most closely related living homonids, chimpanzees have little subcutaneous fat, very relief-rich face, not smooth and shiny skin, etc.

3. Reduction of body hair

Progressive Negroids (especially Nilotids) are relatively slight hairy compared with Europids.

The less body hair is only partly a adjustment to climatic environmental conditions:

- Adaptation to extreme dry heat among Negroids
versus
- Adaptation to extreme cold among Mongolids, after which very strong growth of beard and body hair - in the context of transpiration and hypothermia - could have been selected negatively.

Primary sexual selection('attractive feature') could be the decisive factor towards hairlessness among progressive Negroids.

Mongolids and Negroids have on average less body hair than Europids(Caucasoids). Among Caucasoids the centre of very strong body hair is between the Caucasus region and Anatolia (especially Armenoids).


4.Lip shape

Thin lips in combination with a wide oral fissure is a primitive feature. Typical of less progressive Europids (especially unreduced Cromagnoids) and Mongolids. Negroids, however, have voluminous lip shape and therefore deviate in a progressive direction.

Negroids

> Europids (Aurignacoids / reduced Cromagnoids & Taurids/ stronger infantilized Mongolids)

> Europids (unreduced Cromagnoids & Taurids) & less infantilized Mongoloids (despite variability: frequent occurrence of wide oral fissure in combination with thin lips)


5. Better suitability for bipedality

Homo sapiens has still not reached the optimum balance of the head on the spine, the optimal upright gait, and therefore many orthopedic deficits, particularly in old age.

But some race forms in this case are much more harmonious and have an higher hominization level than others. Especially primitive at this point is Homo neanderthalensis, he serves as a perfect example of a primitive body shape and posture in the genus Homo.

Practically no neck, head extremely shifted far to the front:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg837/scaled.php?server=837&filename=neandertalerdwwis977422.jpg&res=medium

Posture and body's centre of gravity of a chimpanzee and an human being:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg832/scaled.php?server=832&filename=chimphumanbalance1eo.jpg&res=medium

Baboon and Homo Sapiens compared with respect to skull-balance. The weight that is needed to keep up the baboon skull is much larger:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg856/scaled.php?server=856&filename=baboonsapiensbalance4vt.jpg&res=medium

Nilotid man:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg834/scaled.php?server=834&filename=2iw3l3b.jpg&res=medium

Negroids have in this regard a further hominization advance in comparison to other racial groups. Especially Nilotids have - regarding the way of walking, position of the head and its center of gravity, relative leg length (lower leg-thigh ratio) and posture - reached the top of hominization.

Similarly shortened calf muscles and a specific muscle fiber variant among certain West African Negroids (especially Sudanids/North-Paleanegrids) - important for explosiveness in sprinting - improve the bipediality - a feature of homonids - in comparison to Europids and Mongoloids whom lack these features.

Progressivity of the physique:

- Longer legs (longer lower leg in relation to the thigh)
- Higher body's centre of gravity
- Shortened calf muscles
- Better positioning of the head

Negroids (especially Nilotids) > South-Aethiopids

> Europids (Aurignacoids) & North-sinid (progressive peak of the Mongolid race)

> Europids (unreduced Taurids & Cromagnoids) & Mongolids

> Europids (reduced Taurids & Cromagnoids)



6. The prominence of the eyeballs

Similarly Negroids differ - in comparison to Europids and Mongoloids - due to a basedowoid eye tendency from archaic Homo sapiens forms. More prominent, not deep set, large eyes were in intraspecific competition a sexual selection advantage among Negroids.

Negroids > Aethiopids

> Europids (Aurignacoids & Taurids & reduced Cromagnoids)

> Mongoloids & Europids (unreduced Cromagnoids)


7.Increased women's profile WHR (waist-hip ratio)

Greater sexual dimorphism among Negroids(especially Sudanids) compared to Mongolids and Europids in terms of women’s profile waist-to-hip ratio. Steatopygia is an extreme form of this feature and can be found among Bambutids and Khoisanids.

Interesting study about male preference in relation to women's profile WHR comparing two different racial-ethnic cultural groups (Hadza men & American men):

http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~hbe-lab/acrobatfiles/profilewhr.pdf

[King Claus]

Both examples have an archaic-primitive browbridge.

http://i40.tinypic.com/33c11du.jpg you think that this kind of brow ridge is "primitive"? ;/

[Methusalem]

http://i40.tinypic.com/33c11du.jpg you think that this kind of brow ridge is "primitive"? ;/

A browbridge is per se a primitive-archaic trait. Deal with it. You can ask any Anthropologist about this. All archaic hominids had browbridges and the only modern day humans with browbridges are Eurosian Caucasoids and Australoids. Funnily they have also very often a sloping forehead shape which is also a primitive-archaic trait.

[King Claus]

extracted from "The Secret History of the World And How to Get Out Alive"
from GoogleBooks Website

As we have noted, it was formerly thought by paleontologists that Neanderthal morphed into Cro-Magnon, and that Cro-Magnon was the progenitor of human beings as we know them today. However, aside from the problems of the Eve Hypothesis, there are serious problems with the assumptions about when modern human types actually appeared on Earth.

Even if we take the evolving scientific view of the present day, we find that Cro-Magnon man was something altogether different from other anatomically modern humans.

Over and over again we read in scientific studies that Cro-Magnon man was just an “anatomically modern human”.

The experts will say:
“The Cro-Magnons lived in Europe between 35,000 and 10,000 years ago. They are virtually identical to modern man, being tall and muscular and slightly more robust than most modern humans.”
Notice how they slip in that “slightly more robust” bit.

The fact is, the Cro-Magnon man was, compared to the other “anatomically modern humans” around him, practically a superman. They were skilled hunters, toolmakers and artists famous for the cave art at places such as Lascaux, Chauvet, and Altamira. They had a high cranium, a broad and upright face, and cranial capacity “about the same as modern humans” (can we say larger?), but less than that of Neanderthals. The males were as tall as 6 feet.

They appeared in Europe in the upper Pleistocene, about 40,000 years ago and “their geographic origin is still unknown”.

Their skeletal remains show a “few small differences from modern humans”. Of course, the “out of Africa” theory advocates suggest that Cro-Magnon came from Sub Saharan Africa and a temperate climate and that, “they would eventually adapt to all extremes of heat and cold”. In this way, the “slight differences” between Cro-Magnon and other forms of anatomically modern humans can be explained away as an adaptation to cold.

But, as we will see, this idea doesn’t hold water.

Cro-Magnon’s tools are described as the Aurignacian technology, characterized by bone and antler tools, such as spear tips (the first) and harpoons. They also used animal traps, and bow and arrow. They invented shafts and handles for their knives, securing their blades with bitumen, a kind of tar, as long as 40 thousand years ago. Other improvements included the invention of the atlatl, a large bone or piece of wood with a hooked groove used for adding distance and speed to spears.

They also invented more sophisticated spear points, such as those that detach after striking and cause greater damage to prey.144 The Cro-Magnon type man was also the “originator” of such abstract concepts as “time”. They marked time by lunar phases, recording them with marks on a piece of bone, antler or stone. Some of these “calendars” contained a record of as many as 24 lunations.145

In the relatively recent past, tool industries diversified.

The Gravettian industry (25 to 15 thousand years ago), characterized by ivory tools such as backed blades, is associated with mammoth hunters. One type of brief industry was Solutrean, occurring from 18 to 15 thousand years ago and limited to Southwest France and Spain. It is characterized by unique and finely crafted “laurel leaf” blades, made with a pressure technique requiring a great skill.

The industry is associated with horse hunters. The tool industry of the Clovis Culture in North America (11 to 8 thousand years ago) is notable for its remarkable similarity to Solutrean. Some suggest that the Solutrean culture migrated to North America around 12,000 thousand years ago.146

Cro-Magnon people lived in tents and other man-made shelters in groups of several families. They were nomadic hunter-gatherers and had elaborate rituals for hunting, birth and death. Multiple burials are common in the areas where they were found. What is most interesting is that from 35 to 10 thousand years ago, there was no differentiation by sex or age in burials.

They included special grave goods, as opposed to everyday, utilitarian objects, suggesting a very increased ritualization of death and burial..147


144 Eric Whitaker, Steve Stewart; Article Reviews; Late Ice Age Hunting Technology (Heidi Knecht) Scientific American, July 1994.
145 Marshack, Alexander, The Roots Of Civilization - Moyer (Mt. Kisco, New York: Bell Limited 1991).
146 Preston, Douglas, “The Lost Man”, New Yorker Magazine, June 16, 1997.
147 Schirtzinger, Erin, The Evidence for Pleistocene Burials, Neanderthals versus Modern Humans, December 6, 1994.


They were the first confirmed to have domesticated animals, starting by about 15 thousand years ago (though ancient sapiens may have domesticated the dog as much as 200 thousand years ago).

They were the first to leave extensive works of art, such as cave paintings and carved figures of animals and pregnant women. Huge caves lavishly decorated with murals depicting animals of the time were at first rejected as fake for being too sophisticated. Then they were dismissed as being primitive, categorized as hunting, fertility or other types of sympathetic magic.

Re-evaluations have put these great works of art in a more prominent place in art history.

They show evidence of motifs, of following their own stylistic tradition, of “impressionist” like style, perspective, and innovative use of the natural relief in the caves. Also possible, considering the new concepts of time reckoning practiced by Cro-Magnon, are abstract representations of the passage of time, such as spring plants in bloom, or pregnant bison that might represent summer.148

Aside from pregnant women and other Goddess worship iconography,149 representations of people, “anthropomorphs,” are very few, and never show the accuracy or detail of the other animals. Humans are represented in simple outlines without features, sometimes with “masks”, often without regard to proportion, being distorted and isolated. At the Grottes des Enfants in France are found four burials with red ocher, and associated with Aurignacian tools.

At Lascaux, France, are the famous caves of upper Paleolithic cave art, dated to 17 thousand years ago, and even older, in some cases, by many thousands of years!


148 Reeser, Ken, “Earliest Art: Representative Art In The Upper Paleolithic Era”, 1994 (after: Marshack, 1991; Grand, 1967; Ucko, Peter J., and Rosenfeld, Andre, 1967; Brown, G. Baldwin, 1932; Breuil, Abbe H., date unknown) (unpublished).
149 Stone, Merlin, When God Was A Woman (San Diego, New York, London: Harvest/Harcourt Brace Jovanovich 1976).


The modern human types that appeared in the Levant were, however, somewhat different from Cro-Magnon. They were the sub-Saharan type, less “robust” individuals than the Cro-Magnon “superman” of Europe.

What seems to be the truth of the matter is simply that the modern humans of the Levant were “different” from the Cro-Magnon types that “appeared” in Europe. Try as they would, there is simply was no way to prove that Cro-Magnon evolved in Africa or the Levant and then moved to Europe.

But then, how to explain what happened in any reasonable terms?

What the archaeological record seems to show is that in Europe, after millennia of almost no progress at all, even in the few areas where modern man has been found, suddenly human culture seems to take off like an explosion with the appearance of Cro-Magnon man.

Not only does culture explode, but also new ways of doing things, new styles and innovations that were utterly unknown in the period immediately preceding them, suddenly appear, only to disappear again like an outdated fad. From Spain to the Urals, sites list the developments of sewing needles, barbed projectiles, fishhooks, ropes, meat drying racks, temperature controlled hearths, and complex dwellings.

The most amazing part of all of it is the art. Art suddenly springs onto the landscape, fully formed, with no period of gradual development; no signs of childish attempts preceding it. A piece of ivory carved 32,000 years ago is as realistic as anything turned out by the most accomplished carver of the present day.

The Upper Paleolithic signals the most fundamental change in human behavior that the archaeological record may ever reveal.150 The only explanation for this tremendous change is that a new kind of human appeared on the earth stage.


150 Richard Klein, Stanford, quoted by Shreeve.


When we consider the difficulties of such an event, in terms of “evolution”, we find that this presents a huge difficulty in our understanding.

First of all, we still have the problem of a 60,000-year time lag between the appearance of the sub-Saharan modern type man who was on the scene with no “improvements” in his technology for that length of time.
If Cro-Magnon evolved in Africa, why isn’t there a continuous record of incremental developments?
By the same reasoning, if he evolved only after crossing the Mediterranean to Europe, why isn’t there a continuous record of incremental developments?
The most effective and popular way that science deals with this crisis is to ignore it, to deny it, or to seek to twist the facts to fit the theory.

Many archaeologists continue to account for the cultural events of the Upper Paleolithic by tying them to the emergence of a more modern, intellectually superior form of human being from Africa. They propose a “second biological event” to explain this, never mind that it left no tracks in any skeletal shape.

Nowadays, the idea is to suggest that the other “modern men” of sub-Saharan Africa were not really fully modern. They were “near-modern”. Thus, Africa is preserved as the origin of all mankind, and the only thing necessary was a breakthrough in the African lineage, a “neurological event” that allowed this “new man” to develop all these new cultural behaviors overnight, so to say. What this amounts to is saying that the explosion of culture in the Upper Paleolithic times did not happen earlier because other modern men didn’t have the brains to make it happen.

Unfortunately, the support for this idea amounts only to circular logic. What’s more, it seems that if it were a “neurological event”, it would start in a small place and spread outward.

But what seems to have happened is that it sort of exploded in a lot of places at once: from Spain to the Ural mountains in Russia! And in fact, the Middle East is the LAST place where art appears.

The earliest known Aurignacian sites are in the Balkans, and they are dated to around 43,000 years ago. Three thousand years later, the Aurignacian craze is all over Europe.

We ought to note that the Neanderthals did not have art. What’s more, there was essentially no change in their stone tools for 100,000 years.

Some people suggest that the impetus for culture was the sudden development of speech. But that idea doesn’t hold much water either. If we were to look at some of the aboriginal societies of Australia and New Guinea, they are certainly Neanderthal like in their stone tools. But they think and communicate in languages that are as rich as ours, and they construct myths, stories and cosmologies with these languages. They just don’t seem to be much interested in technology.

There is another very strange thing about this explosion of homo intellectualis technologicus: it seems to have sort of “lost its steam” around 12,000 years ago.

We have already noted the pottery making of the Jomon. Even more startling is the fact that twenty-six thousand years ago the residents of Dolni Vestonice were firing ceramics in kilns. But you don’t read that in archaeology textbooks. In the standard teachings, the emergence of ceramics is linked to the functional use of pottery which supposedly did not appear until the agricultural revolution in the Neolithic period some 12,000 years after the kilns at Dolni were last used.

Oh dear!

Did we just stumble on something interesting? Didn’t we just note that something happened to “cool” the steam of the cultural explosion of the Upper Paleolithic and that it happened about 12,000 years ago? And we noted that the Jomon culture “began” at about the same time. And here we note that the agricultural revolution occurred at about the same time as that “loss of creative vigor”.

Could the two have some connection?

In Bulgaria, a thousand miles to the east of Dolni Vestonice, there is a cave called Bacho Kiro. It is famous for containing the earliest known Aurignacian tool assemblages. They are 43,000 years old.

This brings us to another curious thing about Neanderthal man: he never seemed to go anywhere. He always made his tools out of what was locally available, and he never seemed to travel at all. What was made where it was made, stayed there. Nobody traded or shared among the Neanderthal groups.

But it seems that right from the beginning, Cro-Magnon man was traveling and sharing and exchanging not only goods, but technology.

If there was a better form of stone somewhere else, the word seemed to get around, and everybody had some of it. Distinctive flints from southern Poland are found at Dolni Vestonice, a hundred miles to the south. Slovakian radiolarite of red, yellow and olive is found a hundred miles to the east. Later in the Upper Paleolithic period, the famous “chocolate flint” of southern Poland is found over a radius of two hundred and fifty miles.151


151 Shreeve, op. cit.


Naturally, these rocks didn’t walk around on their own. Human legs carried them. And that leads us to our next little problem with Cro-Magnon man: You see, his legs were too long.

One of the sacred laws of evolutionary biology is called “Allen’s Rule”.

This rule posits that legs, arms, ears, and other body extremities should be shorter in mammals that live in cold climates, and longer in mammals of the same period who live where it is hot. This is because having short arms and legs conserves heat. This is supposed to explain why Eskimos and Laplanders have short legs. It also is supposed to explain why Bantu people are leaner, and the Maasai are extremely long and lean in their tropical open country.

The only people who seem to be mocking Allen’s rule are Cro-Magnon.

They just refused to adapt. They all have much longer legs than they ought to. Of course, this is pounced upon as proof that they came from Africa. The only problem with this is that it is hard to imagine people from a warm climate migrating to a cold one by choice. Then, on top of that, to remain long-limbed for over a thousand generations? Keep in mind that, during that time, the thermometer kept going down and, at the glacial maximum, 18,000 years ago, it was like the North Pole in northern Europe!

So how come they didn’t adapt?

By whatever means they arrived in Europe, we ought to take note of the fact that their presence there may be related to the fact that Europe and other nearby locations are literally blanketed with megaliths. Indeed, it may be so that the megaliths came long after the appearance of Cro-Magnon man, but the connection ought not to be discarded without some consideration.

We have still another problem here, and it has to do with dating. Analyzing mitochondrial DNA data to reconstruct the demographic prehistory of Homo Sapiens reveals statistical evidence of explosive growth around 50,000 to 60,000 years ago. Is there a connection between this DNA evidence and the appearance of Cro-Magnon man?

If so, it would mean that the DNA is dated to twice the age that archaeology confirms.

Instead of assuming that the archaeological dates are correct, perhaps we ought to ask the question: could something be wrong with the dating? From a morphological point of view as well as judging by their industry and art, these highly evolved humans who coexisted with Neanderthal man represent a mutation so enormous and sudden as to be absurd in the context of evolutionary theory.

What in the world are we going to do with this problem?

I could exhaustively describe the endless books and papers that seek to explain it away; to account for it, to marginalize it, and even ignore it. But at the end of it all, the fundamental problem still remains: a new kind of man appeared on the planet, seemingly from nowhere, and he was smart, artistic, and however he got here, he landed in a lot of places simultaneously.

Did I say “landed”? Yes, I did.

Am I suggesting that Cro-Magnon man was an alien? Not exactly.

We still have to consider the mitochondrial DNA of Eve. I also haven’t forgotten that annoying problem of the Asian vs. African origins of the “first mother” that has been so deftly dealt with by avoidance and non-answers.

What do all of these factors, taken together, suggest?

Well, any farmer can figure that one out: it suggests hybridization. But that would imply somebody doing the hybridizing. Further, we might wish to make note of the range of this culture that suddenly dropped in on Europe: from Spain (and a small region of North Africa) to the Ural Mountains that are at the border of Central Asia.

The steppes of Central Asia, just north of Turkmenia, are a difficult environment for agriculture. Goats and sheep and cattle bones are found there that date to about 4000 BC. Later, the camel and horse came into use. These cultures spoke Indo-European languages and their members are believed to have been Caucasoid.

There have been many theories that the Caucasoid nomads of the Central Asian steppes migrated to Europe.

But, as we have seen, the initial migration may have been from West to East. The archaeological record is uncertain, and therefore the migrations of the Indo-Europeans (for so we may most assuredly call them) from the Asian steppes are no longer as clear in the minds of scholars as they once were.152 The migrations into India and Pakistan, however, do seem to have some firmer foundation.

[King Claus]

extracted from "The Secret History of the World And How to Get Out Alive"
from GoogleBooks Website

As we have noted, it was formerly thought by paleontologists that Neanderthal morphed into Cro-Magnon, and that Cro-Magnon was the progenitor of human beings as we know them today. However, aside from the problems of the Eve Hypothesis, there are serious problems with the assumptions about when modern human types actually appeared on Earth.

Even if we take the evolving scientific view of the present day, we find that Cro-Magnon man was something altogether different from other anatomically modern humans.

Over and over again we read in scientific studies that Cro-Magnon man was just an “anatomically modern human”.

The experts will say:
“The Cro-Magnons lived in Europe between 35,000 and 10,000 years ago. They are virtually identical to modern man, being tall and muscular and slightly more robust than most modern humans.”
Notice how they slip in that “slightly more robust” bit.

The fact is, the Cro-Magnon man was, compared to the other “anatomically modern humans” around him, practically a superman. They were skilled hunters, toolmakers and artists famous for the cave art at places such as Lascaux, Chauvet, and Altamira. They had a high cranium, a broad and upright face, and cranial capacity “about the same as modern humans” (can we say larger?), but less than that of Neanderthals. The males were as tall as 6 feet.

They appeared in Europe in the upper Pleistocene, about 40,000 years ago and “their geographic origin is still unknown”.

Their skeletal remains show a “few small differences from modern humans”. Of course, the “out of Africa” theory advocates suggest that Cro-Magnon came from Sub Saharan Africa and a temperate climate and that, “they would eventually adapt to all extremes of heat and cold”. In this way, the “slight differences” between Cro-Magnon and other forms of anatomically modern humans can be explained away as an adaptation to cold.

But, as we will see, this idea doesn’t hold water.

Cro-Magnon’s tools are described as the Aurignacian technology, characterized by bone and antler tools, such as spear tips (the first) and harpoons. They also used animal traps, and bow and arrow. They invented shafts and handles for their knives, securing their blades with bitumen, a kind of tar, as long as 40 thousand years ago. Other improvements included the invention of the atlatl, a large bone or piece of wood with a hooked groove used for adding distance and speed to spears.

They also invented more sophisticated spear points, such as those that detach after striking and cause greater damage to prey.144 The Cro-Magnon type man was also the “originator” of such abstract concepts as “time”. They marked time by lunar phases, recording them with marks on a piece of bone, antler or stone. Some of these “calendars” contained a record of as many as 24 lunations.145

In the relatively recent past, tool industries diversified.

The Gravettian industry (25 to 15 thousand years ago), characterized by ivory tools such as backed blades, is associated with mammoth hunters. One type of brief industry was Solutrean, occurring from 18 to 15 thousand years ago and limited to Southwest France and Spain. It is characterized by unique and finely crafted “laurel leaf” blades, made with a pressure technique requiring a great skill.

The industry is associated with horse hunters. The tool industry of the Clovis Culture in North America (11 to 8 thousand years ago) is notable for its remarkable similarity to Solutrean. Some suggest that the Solutrean culture migrated to North America around 12,000 thousand years ago.146

Cro-Magnon people lived in tents and other man-made shelters in groups of several families. They were nomadic hunter-gatherers and had elaborate rituals for hunting, birth and death. Multiple burials are common in the areas where they were found. What is most interesting is that from 35 to 10 thousand years ago, there was no differentiation by sex or age in burials.

They included special grave goods, as opposed to everyday, utilitarian objects, suggesting a very increased ritualization of death and burial..147


144 Eric Whitaker, Steve Stewart; Article Reviews; Late Ice Age Hunting Technology (Heidi Knecht) Scientific American, July 1994.
145 Marshack, Alexander, The Roots Of Civilization - Moyer (Mt. Kisco, New York: Bell Limited 1991).
146 Preston, Douglas, “The Lost Man”, New Yorker Magazine, June 16, 1997.
147 Schirtzinger, Erin, The Evidence for Pleistocene Burials, Neanderthals versus Modern Humans, December 6, 1994.


They were the first confirmed to have domesticated animals, starting by about 15 thousand years ago (though ancient sapiens may have domesticated the dog as much as 200 thousand years ago).

They were the first to leave extensive works of art, such as cave paintings and carved figures of animals and pregnant women. Huge caves lavishly decorated with murals depicting animals of the time were at first rejected as fake for being too sophisticated. Then they were dismissed as being primitive, categorized as hunting, fertility or other types of sympathetic magic.

Re-evaluations have put these great works of art in a more prominent place in art history.

They show evidence of motifs, of following their own stylistic tradition, of “impressionist” like style, perspective, and innovative use of the natural relief in the caves. Also possible, considering the new concepts of time reckoning practiced by Cro-Magnon, are abstract representations of the passage of time, such as spring plants in bloom, or pregnant bison that might represent summer.148

Aside from pregnant women and other Goddess worship iconography,149 representations of people, “anthropomorphs,” are very few, and never show the accuracy or detail of the other animals. Humans are represented in simple outlines without features, sometimes with “masks”, often without regard to proportion, being distorted and isolated. At the Grottes des Enfants in France are found four burials with red ocher, and associated with Aurignacian tools.

At Lascaux, France, are the famous caves of upper Paleolithic cave art, dated to 17 thousand years ago, and even older, in some cases, by many thousands of years!


148 Reeser, Ken, “Earliest Art: Representative Art In The Upper Paleolithic Era”, 1994 (after: Marshack, 1991; Grand, 1967; Ucko, Peter J., and Rosenfeld, Andre, 1967; Brown, G. Baldwin, 1932; Breuil, Abbe H., date unknown) (unpublished).
149 Stone, Merlin, When God Was A Woman (San Diego, New York, London: Harvest/Harcourt Brace Jovanovich 1976).


The modern human types that appeared in the Levant were, however, somewhat different from Cro-Magnon. They were the sub-Saharan type, less “robust” individuals than the Cro-Magnon “superman” of Europe.

What seems to be the truth of the matter is simply that the modern humans of the Levant were “different” from the Cro-Magnon types that “appeared” in Europe. Try as they would, there is simply was no way to prove that Cro-Magnon evolved in Africa or the Levant and then moved to Europe.

But then, how to explain what happened in any reasonable terms?

What the archaeological record seems to show is that in Europe, after millennia of almost no progress at all, even in the few areas where modern man has been found, suddenly human culture seems to take off like an explosion with the appearance of Cro-Magnon man.

Not only does culture explode, but also new ways of doing things, new styles and innovations that were utterly unknown in the period immediately preceding them, suddenly appear, only to disappear again like an outdated fad. From Spain to the Urals, sites list the developments of sewing needles, barbed projectiles, fishhooks, ropes, meat drying racks, temperature controlled hearths, and complex dwellings.

The most amazing part of all of it is the art. Art suddenly springs onto the landscape, fully formed, with no period of gradual development; no signs of childish attempts preceding it. A piece of ivory carved 32,000 years ago is as realistic as anything turned out by the most accomplished carver of the present day.

The Upper Paleolithic signals the most fundamental change in human behavior that the archaeological record may ever reveal.150 The only explanation for this tremendous change is that a new kind of human appeared on the earth stage.


150 Richard Klein, Stanford, quoted by Shreeve.


When we consider the difficulties of such an event, in terms of “evolution”, we find that this presents a huge difficulty in our understanding.

First of all, we still have the problem of a 60,000-year time lag between the appearance of the sub-Saharan modern type man who was on the scene with no “improvements” in his technology for that length of time.
If Cro-Magnon evolved in Africa, why isn’t there a continuous record of incremental developments?
By the same reasoning, if he evolved only after crossing the Mediterranean to Europe, why isn’t there a continuous record of incremental developments?
The most effective and popular way that science deals with this crisis is to ignore it, to deny it, or to seek to twist the facts to fit the theory.

Many archaeologists continue to account for the cultural events of the Upper Paleolithic by tying them to the emergence of a more modern, intellectually superior form of human being from Africa. They propose a “second biological event” to explain this, never mind that it left no tracks in any skeletal shape.

Nowadays, the idea is to suggest that the other “modern men” of sub-Saharan Africa were not really fully modern. They were “near-modern”. Thus, Africa is preserved as the origin of all mankind, and the only thing necessary was a breakthrough in the African lineage, a “neurological event” that allowed this “new man” to develop all these new cultural behaviors overnight, so to say. What this amounts to is saying that the explosion of culture in the Upper Paleolithic times did not happen earlier because other modern men didn’t have the brains to make it happen.

Unfortunately, the support for this idea amounts only to circular logic. What’s more, it seems that if it were a “neurological event”, it would start in a small place and spread outward.

But what seems to have happened is that it sort of exploded in a lot of places at once: from Spain to the Ural mountains in Russia! And in fact, the Middle East is the LAST place where art appears.

The earliest known Aurignacian sites are in the Balkans, and they are dated to around 43,000 years ago. Three thousand years later, the Aurignacian craze is all over Europe.

We ought to note that the Neanderthals did not have art. What’s more, there was essentially no change in their stone tools for 100,000 years.

Some people suggest that the impetus for culture was the sudden development of speech. But that idea doesn’t hold much water either. If we were to look at some of the aboriginal societies of Australia and New Guinea, they are certainly Neanderthal like in their stone tools. But they think and communicate in languages that are as rich as ours, and they construct myths, stories and cosmologies with these languages. They just don’t seem to be much interested in technology.

There is another very strange thing about this explosion of homo intellectualis technologicus: it seems to have sort of “lost its steam” around 12,000 years ago.

We have already noted the pottery making of the Jomon. Even more startling is the fact that twenty-six thousand years ago the residents of Dolni Vestonice were firing ceramics in kilns. But you don’t read that in archaeology textbooks. In the standard teachings, the emergence of ceramics is linked to the functional use of pottery which supposedly did not appear until the agricultural revolution in the Neolithic period some 12,000 years after the kilns at Dolni were last used.

Oh dear!

Did we just stumble on something interesting? Didn’t we just note that something happened to “cool” the steam of the cultural explosion of the Upper Paleolithic and that it happened about 12,000 years ago? And we noted that the Jomon culture “began” at about the same time. And here we note that the agricultural revolution occurred at about the same time as that “loss of creative vigor”.

Could the two have some connection?

In Bulgaria, a thousand miles to the east of Dolni Vestonice, there is a cave called Bacho Kiro. It is famous for containing the earliest known Aurignacian tool assemblages. They are 43,000 years old.

This brings us to another curious thing about Neanderthal man: he never seemed to go anywhere. He always made his tools out of what was locally available, and he never seemed to travel at all. What was made where it was made, stayed there. Nobody traded or shared among the Neanderthal groups.

But it seems that right from the beginning, Cro-Magnon man was traveling and sharing and exchanging not only goods, but technology.

If there was a better form of stone somewhere else, the word seemed to get around, and everybody had some of it. Distinctive flints from southern Poland are found at Dolni Vestonice, a hundred miles to the south. Slovakian radiolarite of red, yellow and olive is found a hundred miles to the east. Later in the Upper Paleolithic period, the famous “chocolate flint” of southern Poland is found over a radius of two hundred and fifty miles.151


151 Shreeve, op. cit.


Naturally, these rocks didn’t walk around on their own. Human legs carried them. And that leads us to our next little problem with Cro-Magnon man: You see, his legs were too long.

One of the sacred laws of evolutionary biology is called “Allen’s Rule”.

This rule posits that legs, arms, ears, and other body extremities should be shorter in mammals that live in cold climates, and longer in mammals of the same period who live where it is hot. This is because having short arms and legs conserves heat. This is supposed to explain why Eskimos and Laplanders have short legs. It also is supposed to explain why Bantu people are leaner, and the Maasai are extremely long and lean in their tropical open country.

The only people who seem to be mocking Allen’s rule are Cro-Magnon.

They just refused to adapt. They all have much longer legs than they ought to. Of course, this is pounced upon as proof that they came from Africa. The only problem with this is that it is hard to imagine people from a warm climate migrating to a cold one by choice. Then, on top of that, to remain long-limbed for over a thousand generations? Keep in mind that, during that time, the thermometer kept going down and, at the glacial maximum, 18,000 years ago, it was like the North Pole in northern Europe!

So how come they didn’t adapt?

By whatever means they arrived in Europe, we ought to take note of the fact that their presence there may be related to the fact that Europe and other nearby locations are literally blanketed with megaliths. Indeed, it may be so that the megaliths came long after the appearance of Cro-Magnon man, but the connection ought not to be discarded without some consideration.

We have still another problem here, and it has to do with dating. Analyzing mitochondrial DNA data to reconstruct the demographic prehistory of Homo Sapiens reveals statistical evidence of explosive growth around 50,000 to 60,000 years ago. Is there a connection between this DNA evidence and the appearance of Cro-Magnon man?

If so, it would mean that the DNA is dated to twice the age that archaeology confirms.

Instead of assuming that the archaeological dates are correct, perhaps we ought to ask the question: could something be wrong with the dating? From a morphological point of view as well as judging by their industry and art, these highly evolved humans who coexisted with Neanderthal man represent a mutation so enormous and sudden as to be absurd in the context of evolutionary theory.

What in the world are we going to do with this problem?

I could exhaustively describe the endless books and papers that seek to explain it away; to account for it, to marginalize it, and even ignore it. But at the end of it all, the fundamental problem still remains: a new kind of man appeared on the planet, seemingly from nowhere, and he was smart, artistic, and however he got here, he landed in a lot of places simultaneously.

Did I say “landed”? Yes, I did.

Am I suggesting that Cro-Magnon man was an alien? Not exactly.

We still have to consider the mitochondrial DNA of Eve. I also haven’t forgotten that annoying problem of the Asian vs. African origins of the “first mother” that has been so deftly dealt with by avoidance and non-answers.

What do all of these factors, taken together, suggest?

Well, any farmer can figure that one out: it suggests hybridization. But that would imply somebody doing the hybridizing. Further, we might wish to make note of the range of this culture that suddenly dropped in on Europe: from Spain (and a small region of North Africa) to the Ural Mountains that are at the border of Central Asia.

The steppes of Central Asia, just north of Turkmenia, are a difficult environment for agriculture. Goats and sheep and cattle bones are found there that date to about 4000 BC. Later, the camel and horse came into use. These cultures spoke Indo-European languages and their members are believed to have been Caucasoid.

There have been many theories that the Caucasoid nomads of the Central Asian steppes migrated to Europe.

But, as we have seen, the initial migration may have been from West to East. The archaeological record is uncertain, and therefore the migrations of the Indo-Europeans (for so we may most assuredly call them) from the Asian steppes are no longer as clear in the minds of scholars as they once were.152 The migrations into India and Pakistan, however, do seem to have some firmer foundation.
Note that how carefully he deals with your sub saharan type, it's close to modern, but not quite;) Maybe you should be the one to deal with it, and stop being such a cry baby about the superior white man, please.

[Loki]

Brow ridges are attractive on men. It gives a masculine impression.

[Methusalem]

blablablabla pseudo-science

This book is full of fairy tell drivel.:picard1:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Secret-History-World-Alive/product-reviews/0976406497/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_pop_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

[Methusalem]

Note that how carefully he deals with your sub saharan type, it's close to modern, but not quite;) Maybe you should be the one to deal with it, and stop being such a cry baby about the superior white man, please.

It is written by a woman.^^ And a prime example of anti-intellectualism and pseudo-science with no merit and significiance in modern anthropology.:clap

But aren't you the one who believed that genetic cloning existed 10 000 years ago.:loco:

[King Claus]

This book is full of fairy tell drivel.:picard1:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Secret-History-World-Alive/product-reviews/0976406497/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_pop_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

not many people believe in it though and thus it cant be pseudo-science..
Anyway, your trolling was obvious from the start but now you come with some serious " Ad hominem " dude..

[Methusalem]

Brow ridges are attractive on men. It gives a masculine impression.

Yes but it is not really attractive on females.

[Caismeachd]

Isn't typical prognathy an environmentally stressed trait due to the importance of food? The mouth projected outward as an adaptation to put things into it when they are readily available. It became less important over time and perhaps some sexual selection got rid of it as well.

[Ivan Kramskoï]

I do know that it's widespead among west africans and that is ugly

[Harkonnen]

It has been claimed repeatedly that Negroids are in terms of homonization level behind Europids(Caucasoids) and Mongolids. This is often justified in terms of their cranial capacity and non-orthognathic jaw shape. In reality, there was a similarly strong intraspecific selection competition within the Negroid race spectrum - compared to Mongolids and Europids.
Negroids have therefore - compared to Europids and Mongolids - Negroid-specific progressive tendencies. However, not all alike, if one compares the Nilotid type (relatively progressive), the Sudanid type (relatively progressive with primitivisms) and the classic Paleanegrid type (relatively primitive and infantile-reduced).

While interestingly the primitive variants have even more archaic gene variants (Paleanegrids, Bambutids, Sanids) than the (relatively to) progressive Negroid forms(Sudanids/Nilotids).

1.Forehead shape

Negroids have one for them typical neotenic-infantile forehead shape(doomed/high). Whereas significantly more on average, Europids have sloping/low foreheads in combination with brow bridge. Similar to early archaic Homo sapiens forms. Regarding the forehead shape, Mongolids are between Negroids and Europids.

Negrid > Mongolid > Europid

2.Skin texture

Negroids have a smooth-shiny skin, facial features with soft lines and more subcutaneous fat in the facial area, often despite clear leptosome habitus and low body fat percentage. This is due to intraspecific sexual selection process, and thus a clear derivation from archaic homonids. Whereas these features among Caucasoids and Mongolids are missing or are not very pronounced.

The most closely related living homonids, chimpanzees have little subcutaneous fat, very relief-rich face, not smooth and shiny skin, etc.

3. Reduction of body hair

Progressive Negroids (especially Nilotids) are relatively slight hairy compared with Europids.

The less body hair is only partly a adjustment to climatic environmental conditions:

- Adaptation to extreme dry heat among Negroids
versus
- Adaptation to extreme cold among Mongolids, after which very strong growth of beard and body hair - in the context of transpiration and hypothermia - could have been selected negatively.

Primary sexual selection('attractive feature') could be the decisive factor towards hairlessness among progressive Negroids.

Mongolids and Negroids have on average less body hair than Europids(Caucasoids). Among Caucasoids the centre of very strong body hair is between the Caucasus region and Anatolia (especially Armenoids).


4.Lip shape

Thin lips in combination with a wide oral fissure is a primitive feature. Typical of less progressive Europids (especially unreduced Cromagnoids) and Mongolids. Negroids, however, have voluminous lip shape and therefore deviate in a progressive direction.

Negroids

> Europids (Aurignacoids / reduced Cromagnoids & Taurids/ stronger infantilized Mongolids)

> Europids (unreduced Cromagnoids & Taurids) & less infantilized Mongoloids (despite variability: frequent occurrence of wide oral fissure in combination with thin lips)


5. Better suitability for bipedality

Homo sapiens has still not reached the optimum balance of the head on the spine, the optimal upright gait, and therefore many orthopedic deficits, particularly in old age.

But some race forms in this case are much more harmonious and have an higher hominization level than others. Especially primitive at this point is Homo neanderthalensis, he serves as a perfect example of a primitive body shape and posture in the genus Homo.

Practically no neck, head extremely shifted far to the front:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg837/scaled.php?server=837&filename=neandertalerdwwis977422.jpg&res=medium

Posture and body's centre of gravity of a chimpanzee and an human being:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg832/scaled.php?server=832&filename=chimphumanbalance1eo.jpg&res=medium

Baboon and Homo Sapiens compared with respect to skull-balance. The weight that is needed to keep up the baboon skull is much larger:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg856/scaled.php?server=856&filename=baboonsapiensbalance4vt.jpg&res=medium

Nilotid man:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg834/scaled.php?server=834&filename=2iw3l3b.jpg&res=medium

Negroids have in this regard a further hominization advance in comparison to other racial groups. Especially Nilotids have - regarding the way of walking, position of the head and its center of gravity, relative leg length (lower leg-thigh ratio) and posture - reached the top of hominization.

Similarly shortened calf muscles and a specific muscle fiber variant among certain West African Negroids (especially Sudanids/North-Paleanegrids) - important for explosiveness in sprinting - improve the bipediality - a feature of homonids - in comparison to Europids and Mongoloids whom lack these features.

Progressivity of the physique:

- Longer legs (longer lower leg in relation to the thigh)
- Higher body's centre of gravity
- Shortened calf muscles
- Better positioning of the head

Negroids (especially Nilotids) > South-Aethiopids

> Europids (Aurignacoids) & North-sinid (progressive peak of the Mongolid race)

> Europids (unreduced Taurids & Cromagnoids) & Mongolids

> Europids (reduced Taurids & Cromagnoids)



6. The prominence of the eyeballs

Similarly Negroids differ - in comparison to Europids and Mongoloids - due to a basedowoid eye tendency from archaic Homo sapiens forms. More prominent, not deep set, large eyes were in intraspecific competition a sexual selection advantage among Negroids.

Negroids > Aethiopids

> Europids (Aurignacoids & Taurids & reduced Cromagnoids)

> Mongoloids & Europids (unreduced Cromagnoids)


7.Increased women's profile WHR (waist-hip ratio)

Greater sexual dimorphism among Negroids(especially Sudanids) compared to Mongolids and Europids in terms of women’s profile waist-to-hip ratio. Steatopygia is an extreme form of this feature and can be found among Bambutids and Khoisanids.

Interesting study about male preference in relation to women's profile WHR comparing two different racial-ethnic cultural groups (Hadza men & American men):

http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~hbe-lab/acrobatfiles/profilewhr.pdf

What a load of bollocks

[Roy]

What a load of bollocks

Why you think that? I actually think that it is not far from the truth.

[Harkonnen]

Yes but it is not really attractive on females.

lol captain obvious. You see often females with pronounced browridges?

[Roy]

lol captain obvious. You see often females with pronounced browridges?

Sorry. I thought you meant the whole article ...

[Cleitus]

345603456134562

[Atlantic Islander]

CM trait.

[Hevo]

There is also some weird test about prognathism:


There is a simple way to measure your degree of prognathism, first make sure your jaw is occluded (closed) with teeth touching together, and then place a pencil (or pen) vertically ''with one end on the nasal spine midline at base of nasal aperture'' (Bass, 1995, p. 87). If the other side of the pencil (or pen) touches, or is very close to the chin then you are orthognathous (Caucasoid).

[King Claus]

http://i43.tinypic.com/160bus5.jpg

[King Claus]

..

[rashka]

The legend goes that white irish have had some cases of prognathism http://i41.tinypic.com/2uypt37.jpg
In the Slavic Balkans you will see more straight profiles like the Anglo-Teutonic that you posted.

[Swearengen]

Prognathism lengthens the jaw and the maximizes bite force. It's evident in most animals, especially dogs. Guy posted on page 1 looks like he could chew through a bone.

[lamb]

There are two types of prognathism:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4f/Prognathism3.png

Which type is being discussed in this thread, or is it about both types?
It seems like neanderthals had maxillary prognathism, maybe this influenced the jaw in some Europeans and Asians.

[Roy]

There are two types of prognathism:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4f/Prognathism3.png

Which type is being discussed in this thread, or is it about both types?
It seems like neanderthals had maxillary prognathism, maybe this influenced the jaw in some Europeans and Asians.

Mandibular, the one which Habsburgs had and which is the most common. Neanderthals had maxillary prognathism because their chin was underdeveloped / no pointy chin.

[King Claus]

Mandibular, the one which Habsburgs had and which is the most common. Neanderthals had maxillary prognathism because their chin was underdeveloped / no pointy chin.

True.

[Géza]

Prognathism is well recorded as a trait of several historical individuals. The most famous case is that of the House of Habsburg, among whom mandibular prognathism was a family trait; indeed, the condition is frequently called "Habsburg Jaw" as a result of its centuries-long association with the family. Among the Habsburgs, the most prominent case of mandibular prognathism is that of Charles II of Spain, who had prognathism so pronounced he could neither speak clearly nor chew as a result of generations of politically motivated inbreeding.


You have copied it from the Wikipedia, but you have forgotten copied this:


Mandibular prognathism (progenism)

Pathologic mandibular prognathism is a potentially disfiguring genetic disorder where the lower jaw outgrows the upper, resulting in an extended chin.

This condition is colloquially known as Habsburg jaw, Habsburg lip or Austrian Lip (see House of Habsburg) due to its prevalence in that bloodline.[4] The trait is easily traceable in portraits of Habsburg family members.[5] This has provided tools for people interested in studying genetics and pedigree analysis. Most instances are considered polygenetic.[6]

It is alleged to have been derived through a female from the princely Polish family of Piasts, its Masovian branch. The deformation of lips is clearly visible on tomb sculptures of Mazovian Piasts in the St. John's Cathedral in Warsaw. However this may be, there exists evidence that the trait is longstanding. It is perhaps first observed in Maximilian I (1459–1519).

Traits such as these that were common to royal families are believed to have been passed on and exaggerated over time through royal intermarriage which caused acute inbreeding. Due to the large amount of politically motivated intermarriage among Habsburgs, the dynasty was virtually unparalleled in the degree of its inbreeding. Charles II of Spain is said to have had the most pronounced case of the Habsburg jaw on record. His jaw was so deformed that he was unable to chew.

What means the prognathism of the Habsburg may has comen from nowadays Poland. Probably when the more or less prominent jaw variations mixed under the Habsburgs interbreeding without any natural selection, at least Emperor Charles had an Uralid prominent mandibula (but with a well-developed progressive chin) with a flatter West-Euro face.

There are many people in East-Europe with Uralid admixture what has comen with the Eastern Steppe people under the Migration Period. This means the Habsburgs prognathism has comen from the very archaic non-differencized Uralid type from the border of Europe and Asia. Theirs lower jaw was those Habsburg eastern heritage. Probably.

http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe022.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9640/suvor3.jpg



Note: In East-Euro and West-Asia among the Finno-Ugric peoples, the dried, salted meat without cooking was typical source of protein till the 20th century. We Hungarian know this, not from Reindeer, but from Cattle. This kind of meat is very hard, not similar to the Italian or Spanish ham or the Swedish Gravlax. This is similar to the shoe's sole. This may be a reason why the prominent lower face has survived under the kiloyears in the Ural and Siberia.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsHG2dljjBA