Which ethnicity helped built America the most

[ButlerKing]

I don't know about all the history of America. Which ethnic group built America the most?
Obviously they are European descent but from which group had built America the most?

Other non-white races contributions can't be denied. Like for example the Indian and African who picked cotton, sugar plant ect the Mexicans of South United states build their own buildings and still speak Spanish and the Chinese who built the Americans first Transcontinental Railroad that links to American states aswell as many bridges.

[Stanley]

It's definitive: you aren't British.

[Smeagol]

The people of the British Isles.

[gregorius]

The same ones who are now breaking it

[Smaug]

English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish and Germans.

[Anglojew]

Excellent question.

The answer would be the English.

Per capita Scots though.

I'd say closely followed by Germans, Irish.

We could add West Africans, Jews, Italians to the mix too.

[Incal]

The English and Germans. Stop counting.

[Scholarios]

Scotch-Irish, Germans,Slavic Americans, Italians. But everyone played a part...

[Lemon Kush]

Protestants!

[Lemon Kush]

Scotch-Irish, Germans,Slavic Americans, Italians. But everyone played a part...

Which Slavs in particular?

[Pontios]

South Americans.

[alfieb]

British (English, Scots, Scots-Irish, Welsh, Cornish, etc.)
Irish (Catholic)
German (largest ethnic group in country)
Dutch (Especially in the northeast; Martin Van Buren, both Roosevelts, etc)

Black slaves substantially helped build the USA, but they weren't an ethnicity yet.

[Lemon Kush]

British (English, Scots, Scots-Irish, Welsh, Cornish, etc.)
Irish (Catholic)
German (largest ethnic group in country)
Dutch (Especially in the northeast; Martin Van Buren, both Roosevelts, etc)

Black slaves substantially helped build the USA, but they weren't an ethnicity yet.

Catholics were considered inferior

[Manuel]

British (English, Scots, Scots-Irish, Welsh, Cornish, etc.)
Irish (Catholic)
German (largest ethnic group in country)
Dutch (Especially in the northeast; Martin Van Buren, both Roosevelts, etc)

Black slaves substantially helped build the USA, but they weren't an ethnicity yet.

+1.

No idea why nobody mentioned the Dutch.

[alfieb]

Catholics were considered inferior
Irrelevant.

There was an Irish Catholic signer of the Declaration of Independence and two Irish Catholic signers of the Constitution. There has been an Irish Catholic President, and Boston and New York were dominated by the Irish in the 19th century (and Boston still is).

[Manuel]

Oh, not sure if this is relevant but wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_hous ehold_income) has a list of the household incomes of different ethnic groups in the US (the sources are there so don't worry).

Didn't know the Indians and the S Africans (!?!) were that far ahead. WTF? Maltese Americans? Filipinos?

Dunno why the German and the Irish Americans are so far down. German Americans probably include a whole lot of poor rednecks in the South?

[Lemon Kush]

Irrelevant.

There was an Irish Catholic signer of the Declaration of Independence and two Irish Catholic signers of the Constitution. There has been an Irish Catholic President, and Boston and New York were dominated by the Irish in the 19th century (and Boston still is).

The roots of America are Protestant though. Catholic free thought wasn't allowed

[Scholarios]

Which Slavs in particular?


All, but Poles and Czechs have had a small but important part since the revolution. I guess just by their numbers, you'd expect them to do something. But I guess they can't compete with Protestant Americans , Italians, and Irish.

And I feel stupid for not mentioning the Dutch.

[Philo]

The roots of America are Protestant though. Catholic free thought wasn't allowed
It does'nt matter what the roots were. We live in a very different world from 1775.

[Anglojew]

+1.

No idea why nobody mentioned the Dutch.

I thought about the Dutch but then you could say Poles, French etc also played a part.

[alfieb]

The roots of America are Protestant though. Catholic free thought wasn't allowed
Ignorant.

Maryland was founded as a Catholic colony. Eventually Protestants outnumbered Catholics and they banned Catholicism, because Protestants are radical by nature. Most of the Maryland Catholics then moved to Pennsylvania, where they were more than welcome, as it was a nonsectarian colony.

[Stanley]

It's the English and it's not really all that close. It's odd to me that it would even be contested.


It does'nt matter what the roots were. We live in a very different world from 1775.
In the context of the question, sure it does.

[Philo]

In the context of the question, sure it does.
It's not just the question, dp93 and alfieb have had some fights in the past in which the Bulgarian tries to claim some sort of superiority over alfieb because he has nothing better to do.
But that's a topic for another thread.

[Lemon Kush]

It does'nt matter what the roots were. We live in a very different world from 1775.

If it doesn't matter than alot of other ethnicities should be added on here as well. I still think the foundation was the most important, which was the Protestant work ethic which made America so capitalistic.

[Scholarios]

Anglo-Jew, don't you think the Dutch were slightly more prominent than French or Poles ( who were also important)? After all, didn't the Brits call American colonials as " Yankees" as reference to their Dutch population ?

The Vanderbilts, Roosevelts, John Jay, the Stuyvesants, and President Van Buren were Dutch. Even Edison was half-Dutch i believe. who is more a symbol of American Ingenuity Than Edison?? Don't forget the Puritan tie to the Netherlands.

[alfieb]

There was no "Protestant work ethic" or "Protestant unity" in early America. Because many of the colonists belonged to minority churches and were fleeing persecution by the established state churches, America attracted nutty religious views. In Colonial America, work on Sundays was illegal. Celebrating Christmas was illegal. Swedes were considered swarthy non-whites. Most Protestants in Europe were your standard Lutheran or Calvinist, but Americans were more fanatical. It wasn't until the immigrants started coming along and the British colonials began to mix with the Dutch, Germans, Swedes and others that the radical Protestantism became more like the mainline, modern Protestantism that came to dominate the USA.

There was a reason that many of the Founding Fathers wound up being Deists. A lot of their family religious backgrounds had been extremist and that was their way of abandoning that nonsense.

[Scholarios]

Alfie- that last paragraph is interesting. Do you have any articles or books that express such ideas?

[Lemon Kush]

There was no "Protestant work ethic" or "Protestant unity" in early America. Because many of the colonists belonged to minority churches and were fleeing persecution by the established state churches, America attracted nutty religious views. In Colonial America, work on Sundays was illegal. Celebrating Christmas was illegal. Swedes were considered swarthy non-whites. Most Protestants in Europe were your standard Lutheran or Calvinist, but Americans were more fanatical. It wasn't until the immigrants started coming along and the British colonials began to mix with the Dutch, Germans, Swedes and others that the radical Protestantism became more like the mainline, modern Protestantism that came to dominate the USA.

There was a reason that many of the Founding Fathers wound up being Deists. A lot of their family religious backgrounds had been extremist and that was their way of abandoning that nonsense.

I agree that the Protestants in America were even more radical than the ones in Europe, I heard alot of them were criminals as well, but why did America tend more towards capitalism instead of socialism?

[Bobby Six Killer]

Do you mean "built" by hand labour? Natives and Mestizos (Latin America)

Italians in america for sure

[Scholarios]

That's right.. If you mean literally " built" then Mestizos, Blacks, Irish, East Europeans ( who the Blacks working with them termed as ' Honky' from ' Hunky'. Hungarian - hence the modern racial epithet. )

[Lemon Kush]

It's not just the question, dp93 and alfieb have had some fights in the past in which the Bulgarian tries to claim some sort of superiority over alfieb because he has nothing better to do.
But that's a topic for another thread.

Wtf Philo stop spreading lies

[alfieb]

I agree that the Protestants in America were even more radical than the ones in Europe, I heard alot of them were criminals as well, but why did America tend more towards capitalism instead of socialism?
My bet? The Louisiana Purchase.

The USA doubled their size and needed people to move west. So the government encouraged people to be entrepreneurs and tame the open wilderness. Then they took the West from Mexico, and needed even more of it. Gold Rush, etc.

Unbridled capitalism, very little government, very little taxation, the Westward expansion was as big an influence as anything. These people wanted to get rich and start a family on the frontier where they wouldn't have the government on their backs. The American dream.

If the USA remained the 13 colonies, it probably would've gone in the other direction.

[WOOHP]

German and English Americans. No doubt about that.

The English came early and formed our Nation. The Germans came later and thanks to their work ethic and innovation we are now the worlds largest economy and the only Superpower.

The reason is their number obviously. If the Scandinavians, Dutch, French etc were greater in number then they would be more important to our society today.

[SKYNET]

Which ethnicity helped built America the most


English, Irish, Scot-Irish, French, Italian and German peoples.

[SKYNET]

there is a thread where you can find a lot of information about the American inventors. http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?65799-Timeline-of-United-States-discoveries-and-American-inventions

[riverman]

Scotch-Irish, Germans,Slavic Americans, Italians. But everyone played a part...


^this

[Feral]

Well, America is a continent formed by two regions: Latin America and Anglo-America. For Anglo America, the British. And for Latin American the Spaniards.

Ah, by the way, just a technicism, since Latin America is bigger on area and population, when you say 'America' you're talking about Latin America and not Anglo America. :]

[Gospodine]

The second most common ethnicity in pre-Independance America was German (Hessian, Alsatians, Palatinate, Rhine) and of course without the French Navy and French/Spanish arms smuggling to the 13 colonies America wouldn't be here on the map today.

People get too hung up on the vestigial Anglo/WASP remnants of the British Empire but really America was built by men who were deeply Anglophobic and who saw continental Europe as nothing but a bunch of "yes me lord" boot-licks still shackled by their tyrant royal families.

[Roy]

Which Slavs in particular?

Poles of course :)

[alb0zfinest]

Well the biggest, dirties, and hardest part the Chinese did, which was build the railroads. Without this driving factor the others would not have been possible.

[gregorius]

Ill ask my swedish friends brb

[Peyrol]

In order:

- WASPs
- Irish
- Germans
- Scandinavians
- Italians (southern, since thre are very few northern in thr USofA)
- French
- Poles

[alb0zfinest]

In order:

- WASPs
- Irish
- Germans
- Scandinavians
- Italians (southern, since thre are very few northern in thr USofA)
- French
- Poles

Probably not. Most of the industrialization in America happened throught the late 1880s and early 1900s. While German and Irish immigrants started coming in the mid 1830s. Like I said most of it was because of Chinese immigrants.

[ABest]

Mostly the English, closely followed by the Scotch-Irish. Generally, people from the British Isles contributed the most, followed by the Germans.

[Nox-C]

Of course british people , they have killed more american natives than anyone else .

[ButlerKing]

Well the biggest, dirties, and hardest part the Chinese did, which was build the railroads. Without this driving factor the others would not have been possible.

Wow, you're right. I didn't know railroads were such a big deal.


http://cprr.org/Museum/Chinese.html

" Without the efforts of the Chinese workers in the building of America's railroads, our development and progress as a nation would have been delayed by years. "



Thanks to the the great and mighty Chinese people.

[ButlerKing]

Of course british people , they have killed more american natives than anyone else .

They died mostly from disease.


Let's not forget without the British colonizing America there wouldn't be no America today.

[Nox-C]

They died mostly from disease.


Let's not forget without the British colonizing America there wouldn't be no America today.

They killed by different ways . One of them was biological weapons as was done to aborginals in australia.

[ButlerKing]

They killed by different ways . One of them was biological weapons as was done to aborginals in australia.

I have not read anything about British killing Native Americans with biological weapons.

[Gospodine]

They killed by different ways . One of them was biological weapons as was done to aborginals in australia.

That's largely a myth.
Lord Jeffrey Amherst did plan to give the Native Americans blankets tainted with smallpox but as far as historical records show it was never put into effect.
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/p/plag/5240451.0001.009?rgn=main;view=fulltext

Devastating smallpox outbreaks happened all over the world before the eradication of smallpox.

The natural spread of disease-causing microbes is not biological warfare and the Brits in Australia never considered any options like that.

[Nox-C]

So they died on their own , maybe muslims did it , you'r right .

[WOOHP]

Irish over Germans...Really?

Maybe German Americans weren't a big factor during the early industrialization, but the most contributing ethnicity to the American society today, and maybe even 100 years back is German for sure.

[ButlerKing]

Irish over Germans...Really?

Maybe German Americans weren't a big factor during the early industrialization, but the most contributing ethnicity to the American society today, and maybe even 100 years back is German for sure.

Irish like the Chinese helped built the first transcontinental train which is the toughest and dirtiest work.

It is with this railroad, the development of the nation have hastened so quickly otherwise America as a nation would have been delayed for centuries. It is also the wish of Abraham Lincoln to see the country be united.

http://www.tcrr.com/Transcontinental-Railroad-map-wiki.jpg

[ButlerKing]

The greatest line the world have ever built and the first transcontinental railroad


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3OM_UnnCNM

[WOOHP]

And the years after that German Americans came to contribute way more than the Irish, culturally aswell as economically.

[Wolf]

You owe us your favourite beer! ;)

http://static.grindtv.com/images/1/00/14/05/93/140593.jpg

[riverman]

And the years after that German Americans came to contribute way more than the Irish, culturally aswell as economically.

That's why I thanked the Scotch-Irish post, Scotch irish were settlers etc. just like Germans

[Bobby Six Killer]

Ignorant.

Maryland was founded as a Catholic colony. Eventually Protestants outnumbered Catholics and they banned Catholicism, because Protestants are radical by nature. Most of the Maryland Catholics then moved to Pennsylvania, where they were more than welcome, as it was a nonsectarian colony.

Indeed many hommies just relocated themselves, like the irish in texas and other former mexican parts

[Bobby Six Killer]

Catholics were considered inferior

Dude are you mentally challenged?

Did you know your " New Testament" was edited by the same guys who founded the Catholic Church?

Protestants only removed the Torah :picard1:

[riverman]

Protestants only removed the Torah :picard1:


The Torah is the Old Testament

[Atlantic Islander]

The California dairy industry is a powerhouse, Portuguese & Dutch had an equal hand in it's development.

[Atlantic Islander]

When it comes to important industries, there are surprising contributors.


In the first half of the nineteenth century whaling was one of the young American nation’s most important industries, providing lubricants and illumination as well as baleen, the plastic of its day. So Ends This Day: The Portuguese in American Whaling, 1765—1927 traces the history of the American whaling industry from its seventeenth century beginnings in Massachusetts and Long Island to its demise in the third decade of the twentieth century, while highlighting the role of its Portuguese participants. Their story begins with Joseph Swazey who, in 1765, returned to Martha’s Vineyard from an Atlantic whaling voyage; and it terminates with the aborted voyage of Capt. Joseph F. Edwards aboard the John R. Manta in 1927. From a few random crew members in the latter half of the 18th century, these men from the Portuguese Atlantic islands of the Azores and Cape Verde came to dominate the industry in its final decades. Their participation would ultimately determine the principal settlement patterns of the Portuguese in the U.S.: New England, California, and Hawaii. But it led as well to distant communities in such diverse places as Alaska, New Zealand, and the Pacific atolls. It is a story of courage and determination in a far-reaching industry in which many of these individuals advanced to positions of responsibility unparalleled among non-English-speaking immigrants to the United States.

This is also something quite important that was swept under the rug. (http://www.portstudies.umassd.edu/pas/so_ends_this_day.htm)

[Bobby Six Killer]

The Torah is the Old Testament

Torah are the moses books of:

Genesis: "origin"
Exodus: Exodos, "going out"
Leviticus: Leuitikos, "relating to the Levites"
Numbers: Arithmoi, contains a record of the numbering of the Israelites in the wilderness of Sinai and later on the plain of Moab.
Deuteronomy: Deuteronomion, "second law", refers to the fifth book's recapitulation of the commandments reviewed by Moses before his death.

The "new testament" has all the same things Romans put in the Bible, the Gospels, Romans, Corinthians etc

So being a Christian and trash talk about Catholicism is just non sense.

[riverman]

Torah are the moses books of:

Genesis: "origin"
Exodus: Exodos, "going out"
Leviticus: Leuitikos, "relating to the Levites"
Numbers: Arithmoi, contains a record of the numbering of the Israelites in the wilderness of Sinai and later on the plain of Moab.
Deuteronomy: Deuteronomion, "second law", refers to the fifth book's recapitulation of the commandments reviewed by Moses before his death.

The "new testament" has all the same things Romans put in the Bible, the Gospels, Romans, Corinthians etc

Protestants didn't remove the Torah, though.

[Bobby Six Killer]

Protestants didn't remove the Torah, though.

If you call Apocalypsy instead of Revelations, then you're reading the New Testament.

Don´t blame me. The old testament is the Catholic Bible.

[Lemon Kush]

Protestants considered catholics inferior in America, they were settling rivalries back from Europe. They didn't let them integrate until later on. I don't know what this has to do with me.

[riverman]

If you call Apocalypsy instead of Revelations, then you're reading the New Testament.

Don´t blame me. The old testament is the Catholic Bible.

No, it isn't. The Old Testament is the Torah, predates Catholicism and is completely different from Catholicism.

[Bobby Six Killer]

No, it isn't. The Old Testament is the Torah, predates Catholicism and is completely different from Catholicism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Old_Testament

[Cristiano viejo]

Protestants considered catholics inferior in America, they were settling rivalries back from Europe. They didn't let them integrate until later on.
False. Many Spaniards whom lived in Florida, Louisiana or Texas remained living in those States when USA bought them or annexed. And those Spaniards were Catholics :thumb001:

It´s a shame that after 70 posts no one has appointed to Spain, even for to honor that it was the first European country to discover many territories of the current USA :picard1:, not to mention that cities like Los Angeles, Santa Fe, San Francisco etc etc etc were founded by the Spaniards :thumb001:, in fact, the city most ancient that exists in the USA was founded in 1565 by the Spaniards, San Agustín de la Florida. Fortunately, many Americans are not as ignorant as the people of this forum, and precisely in these dates, in 2013, they are commemorating the 500th anniversary of the arrival in Florida of Ponce de León :)

http://www.abc.es/Media/201304/03/ponce2--644x362.jpg
Jimmy Ponce, Ponce de León descendant, recreates 500 years after the discovery of Florida in Ponte Vedra Beach

http://www.abc.es/Media/201304/01/ponce-leon--644x362.jpg

Not to mention neither the role played by the Spaniards in the War of American Independence supporting to the Thirteen Colonies against England, with the Governor of Lousiana Bernardo de Gálvez, which defeated the English at Manchac, Baton Rouge, Nachtez, Pensacola and Mobile, and openly by means of weapons, supplies and opening a front in the southern flank.

http://www.thecajuns.com/images/Galvez.jpg

Cajun flag
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_oQPm6ryPEz4/S-A8jwblCeI/AAAAAAAABLE/Y_r9vSHFnQQ/s1600/Flag_of_Acadiana_svg.png


The three silver fleurs-de-lis on the blue field represent the French heritage of Acadiana, the gold star on the white field symbolizes Our Lady of the Assumption, patron saint of Acadiana (the star also symbolizes the active participation of the Cajuns in the American Revolution, as soldiers under General Bernardo de Gálvez, Spanish governor of Louisiana). The gold tower on the red field represents Spain, which governed Louisiana at the time the Acadians arrived.

[riverman]

OOPSIE, MISSED SPAIN.:cool:

[rhiannon]

BK...I thought you hated Americans.
:scratch::twitch:

[Incal]

Protestants considered catholics inferior in America, they were settling rivalries back from Europe. They didn't let them integrate until later on. I don't know what this has to do with me.

You are orthodox.

[Stanley]

Really don't get this thread. It's asking which ethnicity (singular) helped build America the most, not which ethnicities had a part at all. How can one argue the answer is something other than the English, when the colonies that would become the United States of America began as a British venture; the Americans fought a war of independence against the mother country Britain; Americans speak English; and colonial American settlers, the creators of the republic, were predominantly English and known as Anglo-Americans.

It's also my belief that contrary to the modern notion of German being the most prevalent ancestry in the US (only true for Pennsylvania [PA Dutch] and parts of the Midwest [19th century immigration]), it is actually English ancestry that is highest, but ancestral self-identification among colonial descended Americans doesn't accurately reflect this English dominance (i.e., "My ethnicity is American", or "I'm English, Scottish, Scots-Irish, German, French, Dutch, and every other ethnicity one of my 30,000 great-x15-grandparents was, whereas I am really ~80% English.")

[rhiannon]

The people of the British Isles...with a little help from the French... are most responsible for the establishment of an independent United States of America.

The fabric of American history, however, has been woven by ethnic groups from all over the world.

[Atlantic Islander]

the Americans fought a war of independence against the mother country Britain; Americans speak English; and colonial American settlers, the creators of the republic, were predominantly English and known as Anglo-Americans.

True, but even the greatest soldier in American history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_francisco)was not of English descent. (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?79214-The-Revolution-s-One-Man-Army)

Just saying. :dev3

[WOOHP]

Really don't get this thread. It's asking which ethnicity (singular) helped build America the most, not which ethnicities had a part at all. How can one argue the answer is something other than the English, when the colonies that would become the United States of America began as a British venture; the Americans fought a war of independence against the mother country Britain; Americans speak English; and colonial American settlers, the creators of the republic, were predominantly English and known as Anglo-Americans.

It's also my belief that contrary to the modern notion of German being the most prevalent ancestry in the US (only true for Pennsylvania [PA Dutch] and parts of the Midwest [19th century immigration]), it is actually English ancestry that is highest, but ancestral self-identification among colonial descended Americans doesn't accurately reflect this English dominance (i.e., "My ethnicity is American", or "I'm English, Scottish, Scots-Irish, German, French, Dutch, and every other ethnicity one of my 30,000 great-x15-grandparents was, whereas I am really ~80% English.")
I completely agree with you. But it's not just English ancestry that's underrepresented in ethnicity surveys, but Dutch and French aswell.
If you add those who classify themselves "American" with "English American" I think that we will have about the same number German Americans as English Americans. You're underestimating the amount of German Americans, especially in midwest(from Pennsylvania to Oregon).

But those kind of surveys arn't trustable. It's just like you mentioned. Someone who's 75% German 25% Polish may fill in "Polish American" just because he/she feels more "Polish".

[Atlantic Islander]

t's not just English ancestry that's underrepresented in ethnicity surveys, but Dutch and French aswell.


There are plenty of other underrepresented ethnic groups, groups that have been around for over 6 generations.

[WOOHP]

There are plenty of other underrepresented ethnic groups, groups that have been around for over 6 generations.

Dutch("New Netherland") and French("Louisiana") are probably the "oldest" together with English. It's not rare at all when people do a genealogy search and they find several French/Dutch ancestors not too far back.

[Atlantic Islander]

Dutch("New Netherland") and French("Louisiana") are probably the "oldest" together with English. It's not rare at all when people do a genealogy search and they find several French/Dutch ancestors not too far back.

I have a lot of American relatives on 23andme that list their ancestry as something similar to yours and to what other Americans tend to list - English/Scots-Irish/German, etc.

If I match them it means that they probably have a Portuguese ancestor somewhere along the line.

There are definitely other ethnic groups that are underrepresented that have been around for over 6 generations.

[Cristiano viejo]

Dutch("New Netherland") and French("Louisiana") are probably the "oldest" together with English. It's not rare at all when people do a genealogy search and they find several French/Dutch ancestors not too far back.

What about Florida, Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada or Montana?

[riverman]

Really don't get this thread. It's asking which ethnicity (singular) helped build America the most, not which ethnicities had a part at all. How can one argue the answer is something other than the English, when the colonies that would become the United States of America began as a British venture; the Americans fought a war of independence against the mother country Britain; Americans speak English; and colonial American settlers, the creators of the republic, were predominantly English and known as Anglo-Americans.

It's also my belief that contrary to the modern notion of German being the most prevalent ancestry in the US (only true for Pennsylvania [PA Dutch] and parts of the Midwest [19th century immigration]), it is actually English ancestry that is highest, but ancestral self-identification among colonial descended Americans doesn't accurately reflect this English dominance (i.e., "My ethnicity is American", or "I'm English, Scottish, Scots-Irish, German, French, Dutch, and every other ethnicity one of my 30,000 great-x15-grandparents was, whereas I am really ~80% English.")

It isn't that weird. Aside from being English some like to identify with their irish, german, what have you heritage. It goes the other way also, scots who came to America might after some time think of themselves as english, etc.

[RussiaPrussia]

germans

[Atlantic Islander]

What about Florida, Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada or Montana?

Southern Europeans dominated those areas. California is the richest state and was founded, cultivated, nurtured, etc. by Southern Europeans.

[Peyrol]

Appalachians and many southern ''rednecks'' underestimate their english roots.


Just look at the census...obviously the ''americans'' are of colonial stock

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.svg

[riverman]

Southern Europeans dominated those areas. California is the richest state and was founded, cultivated, nurtured, etc. by Southern Europeans.

White americans are by far majority n., n.west European heritage, and/or german, and scandoid types. Slavs are present also, often in certain areas rather than so widespread. Many southern European types here are literally non-existant.

[Peyrol]

White americans are by far majority n., n.west European heritage, and/or german, scandoid types. Slavs are present also, often in certain areas rather than so widespread. Many southern European types here are literally non-existant.

It depends, since for many americans southern euros have all brown skin, hooked nose and dark curly hairs...

[Atlantic Islander]

Appalachians and many southern ''rednecks'' underestimate their english roots.


Just look at the census...obviously the ''americans'' are of colonial stock

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.svg

American's tend to overestimate how German they are, in reality they are mostly of English stock.

[Wolf]

California is the richest state and was founded, cultivated, nurtured, etc. by Southern Europeans.

Your claim is that California is the richest American state because it was founded by Spaniards? :confused:

[riverman]

It depends, since for many americans southern euros have all brown skin, hooked nose and dark curly hairs...


I don't have an agenda, my heritage isn't average here, i'm somewhat atypical, just telling it the way it is, no need to 'respond' like that to my comments.

[Atlantic Islander]

Your claim is that California is the richest American state because it was founded by Spaniards? :confused:

There are many reasons.

[Atlantic Islander]

White americans are by far majority n., n.west European heritage, and/or german, and scandoid types. Slavs are present also, often in certain areas rather than so widespread. Many southern European types here are literally non-existant.

In California? That's crazy, most of the dairies and vineyards are owned by Southern Europeans.

[riverman]

In California? That's crazy, most of the dairies and vineyards are owned by Southern Europeans.

?? I live in Cali.

[Atlantic Islander]

?? I live in Cali.

That's what it looks like.

[WOOHP]

What about Florida, Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada or Montana?

They belonged to Mexico at some point but the amount of people with Spanish ancestry wasn't that huge at all. I think Arizona had some Spanish settlers.

Florida:

The largest reported ancestries in the 2000 Census were German (11.8%), Irish (10.3%), English (9.2%), American (8%), Italian (6.3%), Cuban (5.2%), Puerto Rican (3.0%) French (2.8%), Polish (2.7%) and Scottish (1.8%).[82]

Montana:

The largest European ancestry groups in Montana are: German (29.3 percent), Irish (16.4 percent), English (13.1 percent), and Norwegian (10 percent).

Nevada:


20.8% Mexican
13.3% German
10.0% Irish
9.2% English
6.3% Italian
3.8% American
3.6% Scandinavian (1.4% Norwegian, 1.4% Swedish, and 0.8% Danish).

California:


31% Mexican
10% German
8% Irish
7% English
4% Italian

I've actually never met a White American in the midwest who had a Iberian surname and who wasn't originally from Latin America.
I don't know how many Spanish settlers there was in the former Mexican states that now belong to the US, but they were not as many as the French settles in former "Louisiana" for sure.

[riverman]

They belonged to Mexico at some point but the amount of people with Spanish ancestry wasn't that huge at all. I think Arizona had some Spanish settlers.

Florida:


Montana:




California:


I've actually never met a White American in the midwest who had a Iberian surname and who wasn't originally from Latin America.
I don't know how many Spanish settlers there was in the former Mexican states that now belong to the US, but they were not as many as the French settles in former "Louisiana" for sure.

I've met Basque. Other than that, nope, most s.europeans here are Italian.

[WOOHP]

I've met Basque. Other than that, nope, most s.europeans here are Italian.

Yes, I forgot. I've met some French Basque but I've never heard of Iberian Americans in California or in any state, except Arizona.

[Atlantic Islander]

They belonged to Mexico at some point but the amount of people with Spanish ancestry wasn't that huge at all. I think Arizona had some Spanish settlers.

Florida:


Montana:


Nevada:


California:


I've actually never met a White American in the midwest who had a Iberian surname and who wasn't originally from Latin America.
I don't know how many Spanish settlers there was in the former Mexican states that now belong to the US, but they were not as many as the French settles in former "Louisiana" for sure.

List of Portuguese American neighborhoods

Arizona

Sedona, Arizona

California

Artesia, California
Bakersfield, California
Castro Valley, California
Ceres, California
Cherryland, California
Chino, California
Chowchilla, California
Denair, California
El Granada, California
Empire, California
Escalon, California
Ferndale, California
Fort Bragg, California
Fresno, California
Gustine, California
Half Moon Bay, California has a large Portuguese population.
Hanford, California
Hayward, California
Healdsburg, California
Hollister, California
Keyes, California
Lathrop, California
Lemoore, California
Long Beach, California
Los Angeles, California
Los Banos, California
Manteca, California
Newark, California
Newman, California
Oakdale, California
Oakland, California
Oakley, California
Orland, California
Pasadena, California
Redondo Beach, California
Rio Vista, California
Ripon, California
Riverside, California
Sacramento, California
Salida, California
San Diego, California in the Point Loma neighborhood.
San Francisco, California
San Jose, California has a "Little Portugal" neighborhood.
San Juan Bautista, California
San Leandro, California, city near Oakland has a large Portuguese population.
San Lorenzo, California
San Martin, California
San Pedro, California, city near Los Angeles.
Santa Clara, California (Lafayette Street)
Santa Cruz, California in the Seabright neighborhood.
Santa Maria, California
Shasta Lake, California
Sonora, California
Sunol, California
Tracy, California
Tulare, California
Turlock, California
Visalia, California
Watsonville, California

Connecticut

Bridgeport, Connecticut
Danbury, Connecticut has a "Little Portugal" neighborhood.
Hartford, Connecticut (as well as the surrounding Hartford [for example, West Hartford] areas).
Naugatuck, Connecticut
New Haven, Connecticut
New London, Connecticut
Pawcatuck, Connecticut
Stonington, Connecticut
Waterbury, Connecticut Home to Portuguese Consulate in CT

Florida

Clearwater, Florida
Coral Gables, Florida
Key Biscayne, Florida.
Longwood, Florida.
Miami, Florida
Orlando, Florida.
Palm Coast, Florida.
Pompano Beach, Florida
St. Augustine, Florida
West Palm Beach, Florida.

Hawaii

Big Island, Hawaii.
Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Haleiwa, Hawaii
Hilo, Hawaii
Honokaa, Hawaii
Honolulu, Hawaii.
Kahului, Hawaii
Kailua, Hawaii
Kalaheo, Hawaii
Kaneohe, Hawaii
Kapaa, Hawaii
Kapaau, Hawaii
Kauai, Hawaii.
Kekaha, Hawaii
Koloa, Hawaii
Lihue, Hawaii
Makawao, Hawaii
Maui, Hawaii.
Molokai, Hawaii.
Naalehu, Hawaii
Paia, Hawaii
Waialua, Hawaii
Waianae, Hawaii
Wailuku, Hawaii
Waimanalo, Hawaii
Waimea, Hawaii

Illinois

Chicago, Illinois
Galena, Illinois
Jacksonville, Illinois
Springfield, Illinois

Louisiana

New Orleans, Louisiana

Maryland

Baltimore, Maryland

Massachusetts

Acushnet, Massachusetts
Attleboro, Massachusetts
Boston, Massachusetts
Berkley, Massachusetts
Bridgewater, Massachusetts
Cambridge, Massachusetts
Carver, Massachusetts
Dartmouth, Massachusetts.
Dighton, Massachusetts
East Cambridge, Massachusetts
East Falmouth, Massachusetts
Edgartown, Massachusetts
Fairhaven, Massachusetts
Fall River, Massachusetts
Falmouth, Massachusetts
Framingham, Massachusetts
Freetown, Massachusetts
Gloucester, Massachusetts
Hudson, Massachusetts
Kingston, Massachusetts
Lakeville, Massachusetts
Lowell, Massachusetts. Back Central Neighborhood
Ludlow, Massachusetts
Marion, Massachusetts
Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts
Mattapoisett, Massachusetts
Middleborough, Massachusetts
Milford, Massachusetts
Nantucket, Massachusetts
New Bedford, Massachusetts has a Portuguese community on the northside.
North Dartmouth, Massachusetts
Norton, Massachusetts
Oak Bluffs, Massachusetts
Peabody, Massachusetts
Plymouth, Massachusetts
Provincetown, Massachusetts
Raynham, Massachusetts
Rehoboth, Massachusetts
Rochester, Massachusetts
Seekonk, Massachusetts
Somerset, Massachusetts
Somerville, Massachusetts
Stoughton, Massachusetts
Swansea, Massachusetts
Taunton, Massachusetts 33.7% Portuguese descent. Template:Taunton Daily Newspaper
Tisbury, Massachusetts
Truro, Massachusetts
Vineyard Haven, Massachusetts
Wareham, Massachusetts
Wellfleet, Massachusetts
West Dennis, Massachusetts
West Tisbury, Massachusetts
Westport, Massachusetts

Michigan

Traverse City, Michigan

Montana

Bozeman, Montana

Nebraska

Lincoln, Nebraska

Nevada

Las Vegas, Nevada
Reno, Nevada

New Jersey

East Newark, New Jersey
Elizabeth, New Jersey
Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey
Harrison, New Jersey
Hillside, New Jersey
Kearny, New Jersey
New Providence, New Jersey
Newark, New Jersey has a high percentage of Portuguese people within the Ironbound section.
North Arlington, New Jersey
Short Hills, New Jersey
South River, New Jersey
Union, New Jersey

New York

Ithaca, New York
Mineola, New York
New York, New York

Oregon

Astoria, Oregon

Pennsylvania

Bethlehem, Pennsylvania has a Portuguese community of around 5,000.
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Rhode Island

Ashaway, Rhode Island
Barrington, Rhode Island
Bristol, Rhode Island in Portuguese Town.
Burrillville, Rhode Island
Central Falls, Rhode Island
Charlestown, Rhode Island
Coventry, Rhode Island
Cranston, Rhode Island
Cumberland, Rhode Island, particularly the Valley Falls section
East Providence, Rhode Island has a very big percentage of Portuguese
Hope Valley, Rhode Island
Hopkinton, Rhode Island
Jamestown, Rhode Island
Lincoln, Rhode Island
Little Compton, Rhode Island
Middletown, Rhode Island
Narragansett, Rhode Island
New Shoreham, Rhode Island
Newport, Rhode Island
North Kingstown, Rhode Island
North Providence, Rhode Island
Pawtucket, Rhode Island
Portsmouth, Rhode Island
Providence, Rhode Island in the Fox Point neighborhood.
Richmond, Rhode Island
Scituate, Rhode Island
South Kingstown, Rhode Island
Tiverton, Rhode Island
Valley Falls, Rhode Island
Warren, Rhode Island
Warwick, Rhode Island
West Warwick, Rhode Island
Westerly, Rhode Island
Woonsocket, Rhode Island

South Carolina

Charleston, South Carolina

Texas

Houston, Texas

Vermont

Brattleboro, Vermont

Virginia

Gainesville, Virginia
Manassas, Virginia

Washington

Seattle, Washington
Walla Walla, Washington

Washington, DC

Washington, DC

Wisconsin

Door County, Wisconsin

[Peyrol]

There are the Tejanos in Texas which are of iberian spanish stock and not recent mexicans:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tejano

...and the Hispanos in California:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanos

[Atlantic Islander]

There are the Tejanos in Texas who are of iberian spanish stock and not recent mexicans:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tejano

...and the Hispanos in California:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanos

Yeah I don't get this whole Northern European-washing they're trying to do, many Americans have minor Southern European ancestry.

[Minde]

polaks they buld everything

[Atlantic Islander]

Yes, I forgot. I've met some French Basque but I've never heard of Iberian Americans in California or in any state, except Arizona.

That is so dumb:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdV4SC7MMso


In Opportunity Knocks Twice, the author remarks after observing a farm in San Leandro:

When you see a house surrounded by an orchard, and the sides of the road
planted to vegetables clear out to the wheel tracks, you may know that a
Portuguese lives there; but don't make the mistake of thinking that it's
poverty that pushes his gardening up against the wheels of passing vehicles.
It's thrift! These men with street gardens are the solid men of the town.
They own business blocks and ranches, and have bank accounts that put
some of us Americans here 'way in the shade.' It hurts a Portuguese to
waste an inch of land. He'll buy the best land out of doors -- knows the
best when he sees it too -- and will pay a top price without question or
flinching; but after he gets it he wants every inch of it to be working for
him, night and day, every minute of the growing season. And he'll generally
contrive to get three crops a year where an American will be content with
two.

:thumb001:

[Prince Carlo]

Those are self reported surveys. In the US even Balotelli can be Italian.

[Peyrol]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Californios

[Peyrol]

Those are self reported surveys. In the US even Balotelli can be Italian.

Balotelli can be ''italian'' even here, in our retarded medias and young generation's mind...

[WOOHP]

List of Portuguese American neighborhoods

That seems impressive, but it isn't:
Portuguese Americans:
Portuguese ancestry
1,477,335
0.5% of the US population


Rhode Island: 9.7%
Massachusetts: 4.4%
Hawaii: 4%
Connecticut: 1.3%
New Hampshire: 1.2%
California: 1.1%
New Jersey: 1.1%
Nevada: 0.6%
Florida: 0.3%
Very few of these have descendants that go far far back in the US. Many came from Azores or Madeira to New England, but then moved to California or even Hawaii.

[riverman]

polaks they buld everything

There are quite a few polack americans here too

[WOOHP]

Yeah I don't get this whole Northern European-washing they're trying to do, many Americans have minor Southern European ancestry.

You want us to believe what? That alot of whites in California actually got Iberian ancestry? People of Midwest aswell?
It's definitley not true. Like I said most White Americans are German + British Isles stock with minor French("New France"), Swedish(Midwest) or Dutch(Northeast and Great Lakes). Some Iberian ancestry is present in the former Mexican regions but they are very few in comparision with other ethnicities.

[Atlantic Islander]

That seems impressive, but it isn't:
Portuguese Americans:


Very few of these have descendants that go far far back in the US. Many came from Azores or Madeira to New England, but then moved to California or even Hawaii.

Wrong.


Discovery

The world-traveling Portuguese were the first Europeans to
step on California soil. Joao Rodrigues Cabrilho, employed by Spain
but Portuguese by birth, was on a voyage of discovery when he
sighted San Diego Bay on September 28, 1542. He sailed from
Navidad in New Spain with two ships and with Portuguese sailors in
his crew. From San Diego, he continued up the coast stopping at the
channel islands. Then he put ashore in the Ventura area, and sailed
to Monterey Bay discovering it on November 16th. A tragedy
occurred. Cabrilho fell and broke a bone which became infected. He
died January 3, 1543 and was buried on the channel island of San
Miguel. Bartolome Ferrelo replaced him as captain, and he explored
the California coast to the Oregon border.1

The next Portuguese to set foot on California, was the Portuguese
pilot Nuno da Silva who Sir Francis Drake captured in January 1578.
(Many nations, employed Portuguese pilots because they were the
best in the world.) Silva was the pilot of the Golden Hind when they
stopped north of San Francisco to repair the ship in June 1579. Silva
kept a log of the voyage and the crew acknowledged Silva's ability as
a pilot.


Waves of Immigration

There are essentially four waves of Portuguese immigration into
California: 1800-1850; 1850-1870; 1870-1930; and 1960 to the
present.

[Atlantic Islander]

You want us to believe what? That alot of whites in California actually got Iberian ancestry? People of Midwest aswell?
It's definitley not true. Like I said most White Americans are German + British Isles stock with minor French("New France"), Swedish(Midwest) or Dutch(Northeast and Great Lakes). Some Iberian ancestry is present in the former Mexican regions but they are very few in comparision with other ethnicities.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/827/northa.png

[WOOHP]

There are the Tejanos in Texas which are of iberian spanish stock and not recent mexicans:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tejano

...and the Hispanos in California:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanos

Hispanos:
Hispano populations include Californios in California, Arizona and Nevada (these areas were part of Alta California, including Utah and southwestern Wyoming, which had no Hispano communities, and western Colorado, that had no Californio communities), Nuevomexicanos in New Mexico and Colorado, Tejanos in Texas, Isleños in Louisiana (from when it belonged to Spain) and Texas, and Adaeseños in northwestern Louisiana.

Total population
est. 1.5 million
up to roughly 0.5% of the U.S. population

[Atlantic Islander]

There are quite a few polack americans here too

On the map posted by Peyrol they are listed as "other" along with the Portuguese. So yes, there are definitely quite a bit of Polish.

[WOOHP]

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/827/northa.png

You are azorean yourself and there are 1,5 million Portuguese Americans of mostly Azorean or/and Madeiran ancestry. So it's not odd at all.

[Atlantic Islander]

You are azorean yourself and there are 1,5 million Portuguese Americans of mostly Azorean or/and Madeiran ancestry. So it's not odd at all.

And they've been in the US since 1800.

[riverman]

........../edit/ nevermind who cares

[WOOHP]

And they've been in the US since 1800.

Yes. But I think most of them came later on.
But you were wrong. There isn't alot of Iberian Americans. And I'm most certain that the average White American don't got some Spanish ancestry. Mostly because Hispanos didn't assimilate that fast like the French or Dutch did and because there wasn't alot of settlers in the former Spanish owned states.

[Freeroostah]

British...

[Atlantic Islander]

Yes. But I think most of them came later on.
But you were wrong. There isn't alot of Iberian Americans. And I'm most certain that the average White American don't got some Spanish ancestry. Mostly because Hispanos didn't assimilate that fast like the French or Dutch did and because there wasn't alot of settlers in the former Spanish owned states.

There are enough in the one state that actually matters: California.

Portuguese assimilated though, they usually anglicized their names.

[WOOHP]

There are enough in the one state that actually matters: California.

Portuguese assimilated though, they usually anglicized their names.

1,1% in California. They are one of the smallest ancestries. I'm sure that German Americans(or English, or Irish etc) are way more important for California than Portuguese Americans. Even French and Scandinavian Americans outnumber the portuguese in California.

But California today is a very degenerate state(due to Non-White Mexicans ofc) today so it doesn't really matter.

[Gaijin]

In America, you can be whatever you want to be.

After the adoption of English language and Anglicization to English names, newborn generations of American mongrels believe or choose to be, whatever they want be.
Some of them forget who their ancestors were, others neglect, but for the most part, I take it they never knew.

Therein a grueling time when identify themselves with something, the majority of the American mutts cook up their own background to fit their ethnic identity of choice and preference.

[riverman]

In America, you can be whatever you want to be.

After the adoption of English language and Anglicization to English names, newborn generations of American mongrels believe or choose to be, whatever they want be.
Some of them forget who their ancestors were, others neglect, but for the most part, I take it they never knew.

Therein a grueling time when identify themselves with something, the majority of the American mutts cook up their own background to fit their ethnic identity of choice.

Lol this idea is really wrong actually, many Europeans seem to think that all Europeans are more or less equally represented here, couldn't be further from the truth

[riverman]

Sometimes when Europeans post their pics, we americans have never seen a white American who looks the same in our entire lives.

[Atlantic Islander]

1,1% in California. They are one of the smallest ancestries. I'm sure that German Americans(or English, or Irish etc) are way more important for California than Portuguese Americans. Even French and Scandinavian Americans outnumber the portuguese in California.

But California today is a very degenerate state(due to Non-White Mexicans ofc) today so it doesn't really matter.

The numbers don't matter, it's what they did that matters.

Many of the government officials are Portuguese, most of the vineyards and dairies are owned by Portuguese, 5.11 tactical series (used by government agencies) - again Portuguese.

The dairy industry in California was basically built by Dutch and Portuguese together.

It's plain wrong to say that Northern Europeans did everything. Maybe it's true throughout other states, but it certainly is not true in California. Many groups had a hand in making it successful.

[Siberyak]

You are azorean yourself and there are 1,5 million Portuguese Americans of mostly Azorean or/and Madeiran ancestry. So it's not odd at all.

I highly doubt there are 1.5 million Portuguese descendants in the usa. Portuguese ancestries here are not very common

[Atlantic Islander]

I highly doubt there are 1.5 million Portuguese descendants in the usa. Portuguese ancestries here are not very common

They are localized to the Western and Eastern coasts.

[Gaijin]

Sometimes when Europeans post their pics, we americans have never seen a white American who looks the same in our entire lives.

Circular calligraphy.

[Siberyak]

They are localized to the Western and Eastern coasts.

Maybe they have changed their last names like this Portuguese american did? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Perry_(musician)

[Stanley]

I completely agree with you. But it's not just English ancestry that's underrepresented in ethnicity surveys, but Dutch and French aswell.
If you add those who classify themselves "American" with "English American" I think that we will have about the same number German Americans as English Americans. You're underestimating the amount of German Americans, especially in midwest(from Pennsylvania to Oregon).

But those kind of surveys arn't trustable. It's just like you mentioned. Someone who's 75% German 25% Polish may fill in "Polish American" just because he/she feels more "Polish".

If we define being an X-American as having any ancestor, however far back, who emigrated from country X to America, then yes, Dutch and French would be underrepresented and it would probably also be true that there are more German-Americans than English-Americans by raw number.

But that method sucks because it designates Americans who are as little as a tiny fraction of one percent of X ethnicity as X-Americans, which is senseless as there is really nothing X about them. I think the following example illustrates this well.

A couple years ago I signed up for the ancestry.com free trial to explore my colonial American ancestry from my grandfather (the rest I already knew about, being composed of relatively recent immigrations straight to the Midwest). I found a few Dutch ancestors from the colonial days, as well as the usual, predictable Scottish, Scots-Irish, German, etc. ancestry that it seems just about every old-stock American has. Now, I didn't all of a sudden identify as some Dutch-American. It was so far back that, all told, it meant I was well under 1 percent Dutch, and being from the Midwest, where there are legitimate Dutch-Americans, it seemed quite ridiculous for me to claim a real Dutch heritage. There is a town not far from my own that was built by 19th century Dutch immigrants and virtually everyone I know from there has a Dutch surname. If I were to tell them I was part Dutch they would assume I had a parent or grandparent from their town; they would laugh if I were to tell them I was 0.3% Dutch from very distant New Amsterdam ancestors. I am not Dutch-American, although by the flawed convention above I technically would be.

The kind of ancestry reporting used on census forms can never truly approximate the actual ancestral composition of Americans.

[riverman]

Circular calligraphy.

No, just the way it is. Spanish aren't typical here, portugese aren't typical here, Balkan types aren't typical here, I'm not typical here.
Scooby dooby dooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Atlantic Islander]

Maybe they have changed their last names like this Portuguese american did? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Perry_(musician)

Yes, I mentioned that earlier. Many Portuguese anglicized their names.

[riverman]

Yes, I mentioned that earlier. Many Portuguese anglicized their names.


Yeah, and if they look Iberian they wouldn't be average for whites here, either. It isn't just complexion, it' the actual features.

[riverman]

There is no "Iberian look".

IDK, there are non-Iberian looks though

[WOOHP]

The numbers don't matter, it's what they did that matters.

Many of the government officials are Portuguese, most of the vineyards and dairies are owned by Portuguese, 5.11 tactical series (used by government agencies) - again Portuguese.

The dairy industry in California was basically built by Dutch and Portuguese together.

It's plain wrong to say that Northern Europeans did everything. Maybe it's true throughout other states, but it certainly is not true in California. Many groups had a hand in making it successful.

California became a wealthy state due to the huge population. Not because they had somewhat higher percentage of Portuguese Americans.

[Atlantic Islander]

California became a wealthy state due to the huge population. Not because they had somewhat higher percentage of Portuguese Americans.

Duh, I said many groups.

[WOOHP]

Duh, I said many groups.

Still Northwesterners were way more important. Sure the portuguese maybe owned the majority of all vineyards but that's not all.
Besides just look at the numbers. Before the tsunami wave of Mexicans and Asians, the great majority of all Whites were probably Germans, British and Irish. It was mainly these groups who built up California.

[riverman]

Still Northwesterners were way more important. Sure the portuguese maybe owned the majority of all vineyards but that's not all.
Besides just look at the numbers. Before the tsunami wave of Mexicans and Asians, the great majority of all Whites were probably Germans, British and Irish. It was mainly these groups who built up California.

Russkies were in n.california

[Atlantic Islander]

Iberians wouldn't fit well in a typical 95%+ White town in the US. That's just the truth.

I'm not the one that said it, that book is right up your nationalistic alley.

[WOOHP]

I'm not the one that said it, that book is right up your nationalistic alley.
Phenotypically speaking.

[Atlantic Islander]

Still Northwesterners were way more important. Sure the portuguese maybe owned the majority of all vineyards but that's not all.
Besides just look at the numbers. Before the tsunami wave of Mexicans and Asians, the great majority of all Whites were probably Germans, British and Irish. It was mainly these groups who built up California.

Here:



In 1915, Azoreans owned one-half of the dairy land in the San
Joaquin Valley and produced over half of the dairy products. Milk
producer's cooperatives sprang up having strong Azorean
membership. In the 1930's, the Portuguese controlled an estimated
60 to 70% of the California dairy industry, owning 450,000 head of
dairy cattle representing $30 million in assets.

In 1923, 85% of the dairymen in Stanislaus and Merced counties
were Portuguese. In Stanislaus County in 1926, there were
407 dairy farms owned by Portuguese with an average of 70 acres.
Also, 493 Portuguese had acreage in alfalfa which is a crop used in
dairying.

Dairy sizes increased from 30 cows in 1930 to over 100 in the 1960's
because of the advancement of technology. In 1972, 1,062
dairies, or 52.6% of the total number, were owned by Portuguese in
the San Joaquin Valley. In an area of 1,700 square miles covering
Fresno, Kings, and Tulare counties, Portuguese control 70% of the
dairy farming. In an area within Kings and Tulare county, Portuguese
have 90% of the dairies. The natural disasters in the Azores of the
late 1950's and early 1960's, and the resultant U.S. emergency
refugee laws, has seen many more thousands of Azoreans funneled
into the California dairy industry. This will ensure Portuguese control
of dairying in the future.

Credit should be given where it's due. That's all I've been saying.

[Gaijin]

Iberians wouldn't fit well in a typical 95%+ White town in the US. That's just the truth.

Typical White town in US? Come on, there is no such thing.

But yes, I agree with your statement, since Iberians look like this:
http://www.globalpost.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gp3_slideshow_large/spain_mariano_rajoy_2012_2_16.jpg
http://www.tecnologia.com.pt/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Pedro-Passos-Coelho.jpg

And Americans, well, they look more or less like this:
http://www.platinaline.com/facebook/images/stories/especiais/barack-obama-re-elected-as-us-president-pg.jpg

Americans might be considered 'White' in places like Mexico or whatever, but here in Europe, the intuition is a lot different.

[WOOHP]

I'm looking at Northwesterners as a group vs Southern Europeans. There is no question about who contributed the most to the Californian society.

[riverman]

Typical White town in US? Come one, there is no such thing.

But yes, I agree with your statement, since Iberians look like this:
http://www.globalpost.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gp3_slideshow_large/spain_mariano_rajoy_2012_2_16.jpg
http://www.tecnologia.com.pt/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Pedro-Passos-Coelho.jpg

And Americans, well, they look more or less like this:
http://www.platinaline.com/facebook/images/stories/especiais/barack-obama-re-elected-as-us-president-pg.jpg

Americans might be considered 'White' in places like Mexico or whatever, but here in Europe, the intuition is a lot different.

BTW that guy you posted isn't typical white American looking
........:picard2:

[WOOHP]

Typical White town in US? Come one, there is no such thing.

But yes, I agree with your statement, since Iberians look like this:

And Americans, well, they look more or less like this:

Americans might be considered 'White' in places like Mexico or whatever, but here in Europe, the intuition is a lot different.
Why did you get offended? You actually think that a group Iberians would fit phenotypically in, lets say a White town in Utah with the largest ancestries being German, Norwegian and English?

[Atlantic Islander]

I'm looking at Northwesterners as a group vs Southern Europeans. There is no question about who contributed the most to the Californian society.

What matters is that Southern Europeans did contribute to it's development, claiming that Northern Europeans did it alone is wrong. I don't see why you can't admit that even though it's a small contribution it's still important and should at least be acknowledged.

Like this hero (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?61888-John-quot-Portugee-quot-Phillips-1832-1883) for example, small but important contribution.

Why is it okay to overlook them?

[RMuller]

WASP helped build the USA the most. People on this thread have already mentions the other groups that have contributed. I think they forgot to add Jews.Jews have contributed alot.

The Southwestern United States and California have a different history compared to New England.
Spaniards,Mexicans,Basque,Mexican Amerindians like the Tlaxcalan settled and founded many towns that are now very large important cities of the USA like Los Angeles,San Francisco,San Diego,San Jose,Santa Barbara,Santa Fe,San Antonio, El Paso,Phoenix,Albuquerque,Tucson etc. :thumb001::cool:

Mexicans were in the USA before the English arrived in Plymouth Rock.Dolcee can deny it all he wants lol.



San Miguel Mission Church - Oldest Church in the US, Santa Fe, NM :thumb001::cool:

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/68590692.jpg

The Mission was built by Tlaxcalan Indians from Mexico in the early 1600s, under the direction of Fray Alonso de Benavides, OFM. During the Pueblo Indian rebellion of 1680, the roof was burned and destroyed. After resettling Santa Fe, in 1694 General Diego de Vargas had a new roof constructed and repairs continued until 1710.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/68590692

[SKYNET]

WASP and Jews = a basis of American life :)

[Incal]

Why did you get offended? You actually think that a group Iberians would fit phenotypically in, lets say a White town in Utah with the largest ancestries being German, Norwegian and English?

Yeah, some could.

[WOOHP]

What matters is that Southern Europeans did contribute to it's development, claiming that Northern Europeans did it alone is wrong. I don't see why you can't admit that even though it's a small contribution it's still important and should at least be acknowledged.

Like this hero (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?61888-John-quot-Portugee-quot-Phillips-1832-1883) for example, small but important contribution.

Why is it okay to overlook them?

Ok you can't overlook their efforts and we are ofc greatful for what they did. But It doesn't change the fact that the average White American is pred. British Isles + German with minor other Euro, regarding ancestry. And because of that it was also they who contributed the most to the US society. This applies today too.

[RMuller]

Besides just look at the numbers. Before the tsunami wave of Mexicans and Asians, the great majority of all Whites were probably Germans, British and Irish. It was mainly these groups who built up California.

Before 1848 the majority of California's population were Mexican or Spanish and California Amerindians The Tsunami of Anglos arrived in California during the gold rush of the 1850's .
Los Angeles before 1848 was nearly 100% Mexican,Spanish and California Amerindian. I have seen census for Los Angeles,San Jose and San Francisco from 1776 census and not one had an Anglo last name like Smith,Schmidt,Jones,Washington,Lincoln etc :thumb001: I have a Basque last name not common in MExico and i found it in one of those 1776 Census in California.:thumb001: not one was WASP LMAOO

I will repeat it again Spaniards,Mexicans,Basque and Mexican Amerindians founded and settled towns that are large important Cities like LOS ANGELES,SAN FRANCISCO,SAN JOSE,ALBUQUERQUE,SANTA FE,SANTA BARBARA,SAN DIEGO,PHOENIX,TUSCON,SAN ANTONIO,EL PASO ETC .

[iNird]

Before 1848 the majority of California's population were Mexican or Spanish and California Amerindians The Tsunami of Anglos arrived in California during the gold rush of the 1850's .
Los Angeles before 1848 was nearly 100% Mexican,Spanish and California Amerindian. I have seen census for Los Angeles,San Jose and San Francisco from 1776 census and not one had an Anglo last name like Smith,Schmidt,Jones,Washington,Lincoln etc :thumb001: I have a Basque last name not common in MExico and i found it in one of those 1776 Census in California.:thumb001: not one was WASP LMAOO

I will repeat it again Spaniards,Mexicans,Basque and Mexican Amerindians founded and settled towns that are large important Cities like LOS ANGELES,SAN FRANCISCO,SAN JOSE,ALBUQUERQUE,SANTA FE,SANTA BARBARA,SAN DIEGO,PHOENIX,TUSCON,SAN ANTONIO,EL PASO ETC .

Lettuce be honest Chipotle brah Mexicans aren't the reason why these cities are what they are today.

[WOOHP]

Lettuce be honest Chipotle brah Mexicans aren't the reason why these cities are what they are today.

The Mexicans found those cities. The Northwestern Europeans made the same cities wealthy and rich. Then the Mexicans returned and now they are destroying their "own" cities.

[Dombra]

Brits and Germans

Italians, Slavs and Jews are high tiers too on the list

[Atlantic Islander]

Ok you can't overlook their efforts and we are ofc greatful for what they did. But It doesn't change the fact that the average White American is pred. British Isles + German with minor other Euro, regarding ancestry. And because of that it was also they who contributed the most to the US society. This applies today too.

Yes of course, acknowledgement is what matters. Wyoming's frontier hero is pretty badass, you should read the article. :cool:

[RMuller]

Lettuce be honest Chipotle brah Mexicans aren't the reason why these cities are what they are today.

I never said that. Dollce is in total denial that the Mexicans settled California before the WASP. Their was 40 Mexican governors in California before it was annexed by the USA government.

And the 4 largest California cities Los Angeles,San Diego,San Jose and San Francisco were founded and settled by Spaniards,Mexicans,Basque and Mexican Amerindians.
The American settlers majority WASP just happen to settle in these 4 towns who just happen to be 4 largest California cities huh.
Well those 4 towns-cities had foundations like Government buildings,Churches,houses,bars,plazas,Stores,roads ,utilities etc bulit by the Spaniards,Mexicans,Basque,Mexican Amerindians and California Amerindians .

As i said before California and the American Southwest has a different history compared to New England which was founded by the WASP.

Sacramento was founded by a Swiss German and it can't compare to those 4 other cities.

[Atlantic Islander]

I never said that. Dollce is in total denial that the Mexicans settled California before the WASP. Their was 40 Mexican governors in California before it was annexed by the USA government.

And the 4 largest California cities Los Angeles,San Diego,San Jose and San Francisco were founded and settled by Spaniards,Mexicans,Basque and Mexican Amerindians. The American settlers majority WASP just happen to settle in these 4 towns who just happen to be 4 largest California cities huh.
Well those 4 towns-cities had foundations like Government buildings,Churches,Stores,roads,utilities etc bulit by the Spaniards,Mexicans,Basque,Mexican Amerindians and California Amerindians .

As i said before California and the American Southwest has a different history compared to New England which was founded by the WASP.

Sacramento was founded by a Swiss German and it can't compare to those 4 other cities.

You forget the smaller Portuguese contribution (http://www.library.csustan.edu/bsantos/calif.html)(California's Dairy Industry) etc. The first European to step foot in California was Portuguese.

[WOOHP]

I never said that. Dollce is in total denial that the Mexicans settled California before the WASP. Their was 40 Mexican governors in California before it was annexed by the USA government.

And the 4 largest California cities Los Angeles,San Diego,San Jose and San Francisco were founded and settled by Spaniards,Mexicans,Basque and Mexican Amerindians. The American settlers majority WASP just happen to settle in these 4 towns who just happen to be 4 largest California cities huh.
Well those 4 towns-cities had foundations like Government buildings,Churches,Stores,roads,utilities etc bulit by the Spaniards,Mexicans,Basque,Mexican Amerindians and California Amerindians .

As i said before California and the American Southwest has a different history compared to New England which was founded by the WASP.

Sacramento was founded by a Swiss German and it can't compare to those 4 other cities.
I havn't denied the fact that some parts of the US were settled by Spaniards, and mestizo Mexicans. But did they build up California(or any other Southwestern state) to the wealthy state it is today?

[RMuller]

I havn't denied the fact that some parts of the US were settled by Spaniards, and mestizo Mexicans. But did they build up California(or any other Southwestern state) to the wealthy state it is today?


They also contributed in making California the Golden state. Many groups contributed in making California the Golden State. Mexican laborer didn't arrive 100 years ago.learn California history. We even had 40 Mexican governors. :rolleyes:

[Atlantic Islander]

I havn't denied the fact that some parts of the US were settled by Spaniards, and mestizo Mexicans. But did they build up California(or any other Southwestern state) to the wealthy state it is today?

You were silly enough to say :


I've met some French Basque but I've never heard of Iberian Americans in California or in any state, except Arizona.

[RMuller]

You forget the smaller Portuguese contribution (http://www.library.csustan.edu/bsantos/calif.html)(California's Dairy Industry) etc. The first European to step foot in California was Portuguese.

Im familiar with Portuguese Dairies.Many in Chino,Ca.

[Atlantic Islander]

Many groups contributed in making California the Golden State.

That's probably why it's the most successful state. So many different groups and their ideas.

[WOOHP]

You were silly enough to say :
Well clearly there are some Hispanos living there. I thought that only Arizona had a significant amount of Hispanos. Portuguese Americans are just 1,1% and I'm not equally familiar with California as I am with Great Lakes region.
So it's not silly at all. I clearly pointed out that I hadn't heard anything about Iberian American communites in California.

They also contributed in making California the Golden state. Many groups contributed in making California the Golden State. Mexican laborer didn't arrive 100 years ago.learn California history. We even had 40 Mexican governors. :rolleyes:
We've been discussing this. It was the Northwestern Europeans who contributed the most, no question about that. Southern Europeans were a part of the society, so I'm not denying the fact that they helped forming the Californian state today.

[Peyrol]

People of (supposed) italian ancestors, by numbers:



New York 2,737,146
New Jersey 1,503,637
California 1,450,884
Pennsylvania 1,418,465
Florida 1,003,977
Massachusetts 860,079
Illinois 744,274
Ohio 735,980
Connecticut 634,364
Michigan 450,952
Texas 363,354
Maryland 267,573
Virginia 257,129
Arizona 224,795
Colorado 201,787
Rhode Island 199,077
Louisiana 195,561
Washington 191,442
Missouri 176,209
Wisconsin 172,578
Georgia 163,218
Nevada 132,515
Indiana 141,486
Oregon 111,462
Minnesota 111,270
New Hampshire 105,610





...and by percentages:

Connecticut 20.8%
Rhode Island 20.1%
New Jersey 19.4%
New York 16.4%
Massachusetts 14.2%
Pennsylvania 12.6%



...in California they don't compose a great percentage of the population, even if the number is great.

[Cristiano viejo]

Your claim is that California is the richest American state because it was founded by Spaniards? :confused:
You say it as if Spain were a poor country, or from third world or something so.

Aside from that fact, you should know that the old American territories that belonged to Spain not always were poor as they are now, Cuba, Uruguay, Argentina or Mexico were rich territories when it became independent from Spain.


They belonged to Mexico at some point but the amount of people with Spanish ancestry wasn't that huge at all. I think Arizona had some Spanish settlers.

I think that you have not read my post in this thread, so I repeat it to you: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?83330-Which-ethnicity-helped-built-America-the-most/page7


I've actually never met a White American in the midwest who had a Iberian surname and who wasn't originally from Latin America.
:picard1:
Here a few http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_American
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Walter_Alvarez


I don't know how many Spanish settlers there was in the former Mexican states that now belong to the US, but they were not as many as the French settles in former "Louisiana" for sure.
:rotfl:

If you want I can give you the list of Spanish settlers in current USA :thumb001:

Not to mention the fact of if there are French in USA is thanks to Spain ;)
btw many Cajuns are from Spanish origin, and not forgetting to Isleños, both groups in Lousiana mainly.

[Xárszászát]

British at first for sure, Germans, Irish, Italians, at least these are the most famous but I am not an expert about Ethnicities in USA.
I imagine Chinese,Japanese, Eastern Europeans played an importan role as well.

[Wolf]

You say it as if Spain were a poor country, or from third world or something so.

Portugal has also been a rich country in former times.



Aside from that fact, you should know that the old American territories that belonged to Spain not always were poor as they are now, Cuba, Uruguay, Argentina or Mexico were rich territories when it became independent from Spain.

Haiti was also a rich territory when it became independent from France. By the way, Uruguay and Argentina prospered not until the late 19th century.



I imagine Chinese, Japanese, Eastern Europeans played an important role as well.

How?

[Xárszászát]

How?

Well, there was a largest immigration from those countries firstly.
Secondly, at least for Chinese, they practically were the manpower of railways industry.

[Wolf]

Well, there was a largest immigration from those countries firstly.

In 1930 there were 102.159 Chinese and 138.834 Japanese Americans residing in the US, compared to the total population of 123.202.624 people that's not very much in my opinion.



Secondly, at least for Chinese, they practically were the manpower of railways industry.

That's relatively little, isn't it?

[Cristiano viejo]

Portugal has also been a rich country in former times.
Irrelevant about what we are talking.

Haiti was also a rich territory when it became independent from France.
True.
Should we also blame France that its ex-colonies are poor nowadays?

By the way, Uruguay and Argentina prospered not until the late 19th century.
Same than USA then.
But it´s not fully true. At the beginning of the XIX century the Viceroyalty of the Río de La Plata was already an area rich in silver, copper, livestock, textile industry etc, and its trade on the rise.

[Permafrost]

Slovenes

Remember people, without Slovenes there would be no Cleveland-style polka. A tremendous loss.

[Albion]

English, Germans, Scots, Irish, Italians, Jews, African Americans - in that order.

[xajapa]

In the early years, one cannot forget the contributions of the Scots-Irish, who opened up the interior of the nation.

[Albion]

True, but even the greatest soldier in American history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_francisco)was not of English descent. (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?79214-The-Revolution-s-One-Man-Army)

Just saying. :dev3

But traitors like Washington and the founding fathers were all of English or British descent.

[xajapa]

But traitors like Washington and the founding fathers were all of English or British descent.
You aren't still fighting that war?:)

[Albion]

You aren't still fighting that war?:)

No. It doesn't change what they were though. Heroes to Americans, but they're still traitors against Britain. We're all friends now, but that doesn't change history.

[Xárszászát]

I loved how Mulholland Irish Brigade charging against Marye's Heights defended by their fellow Confederate Irishmen at Fredericksburg is depicted in Gods and Generals.

[Cristiano viejo]

English, Germans, Scots, Irish, Italians, Jews, African Americans - in that order.

I find it incredible that on that list are African Americans and not the Spaniards or French. How many cities have founded those African Americans?:confused:

[Albion]

I find it incredible that on that list are African Americans and not the Spaniards or French. How many cities have founded those African Americans?:confused:

Probably none. But major cities such as LA were small towns under Spanish and Mexican rule, California and the American SW only developed when the Americans took control of it.
The Spanish just aren't as important in the development of the USA as those other groups.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/LosAngeles-Plaza-1869.jpg

[Wolf]

Should we also blame France that its ex-colonies are poor nowadays?

Of course, or do you have another explanation? :rolleyes:



Same than USA then.

Not really, the US prospered and Mexico declined.



Probably none. But major cities such as LA were small towns under Spanish and Mexican rule, California and the American SW only developed when the Americans took control of it.
The Spanish just aren't as important in the development of the USA as those other groups.

It's as simple as that.

[Atlantic Islander]

But traitors like Washington and the founding fathers were all of English or British descent.

Washington called him his one-man army. :P

And there are actually many "founding fathers" lists, one of them includes Peter Francisco.

[Cristiano viejo]

Probably none. But major cities such as LA were small towns under Spanish and Mexican rule, California and the American SW only developed when the Americans took control of it.
Normal and logic, I dont discuss that.
What I am saying is that the fact of having founded that pile of cities and towns should be considered a major contribution to USA.
If the Spaniards had not founded it, today would not exist cities such as Los Ángeles, San Francisco, Santa Fe, Galvestown, San Antonio etc etc etc, or the city most ancient of all USA: San Agustín de la Florida.
I am sure that this is a great contribution.

The Spanish just aren't as important in the development of the USA as those other groups.
If found and build cities is not part (essential I guess) of a country's development, I dont understand anything.

French and Spaniards decisively supported military and economically to the Thirteen Colonies to become a new and independent country, is not this, IE, the birth of a nation, a decisive event for the development of a country?????:confused:

African Americans and Jews are destroying USA nowadays, it´s a joke that you mention them :picard1:

Of course, or do you have another explanation? :rolleyes:
Yes, I have it :)
All these colonies, when ceased to be governed by Europeans, it ruined and impoverished.
I think that you will understand my point, right?


Not really, the US prospered and Mexico declined.

I spoke of Argentina, Uruguay etc, not Mexico.
The decline of Mexico occur for the reason above commented, and because USA stole them much of its territories.

[riverman]

But traitors like Washington and the founding fathers were all of English or British descent.


Yikes. Hey we're allies now though.

[Sisak]

I think that is one of the most responsible for the development of the USA Croat Antun Lucic, he discovered how to draw oil in large quantities and this has resulted in the rapid development of the American South. Before that American cities look like cities in the Balkans, as villages. He invented Splindetop. I have already opened a thread about it:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?83798-Texas-Oil-Boom-at-Spindletop

[Wolf]

If found and build cities is not part (essential I guess) of a country's development, I dont understand anything.

The cities were founded by Spaniards but built by Americans (or immigrants). Therefore, they have a typical American appearance nowadays.



French and Spaniards decisively supported military and economically to the Thirteen Colonies to become a new and independent country, is not this, IE, the birth of a nation, a decisive event for the development of a country?????

And after that?



African Americans and Jews are destroying USA nowadays, it´s a joke that you mention them

African Americans worked in the cotton fields and later in the factories. So, they contributed to the economy. Furthermore, they contributed to American music, that's undeniable. Jews heavily contributed to American economy, culture and sciences. Take a look at the American Nobel laureates.



Yes, I have it :)
All these colonies, when ceased to be governed by Europeans, it ruined and impoverished.
I think that you will understand my point, right?

I see!



I spoke of Argentina, Uruguay etc, not Mexico.

Argentina and Uruguay are special cases.



The decline of Mexico occur for the reason above commented, and because USA stole them much of its territories.

These territories were sparsely populated, only 2 % of the Mexican population lived there, and of no great value.

[Albion]

Normal and logic, I dont discuss that.
What I am saying is that the fact of having founded that pile of cities and towns should be considered a major contribution to USA.
If the Spaniards had not founded it, today would not exist cities such as Los Ángeles, San Francisco, Santa Fe, Galvestown, San Antonio etc etc etc, or the city most ancient of all USA: San Agustín de la Florida.
I am sure that this is a great contribution.

If found and build cities is not part (essential I guess) of a country's development, I dont understand anything.

French and Spaniards decisively supported military and economically to the Thirteen Colonies to become a new and independent country, is not this, IE, the birth of a nation, a decisive event for the development of a country?????:confused:

African Americans and Jews are destroying USA nowadays, it´s a joke that you mention them :picard1:

Yes, I have it :)
All these colonies, when ceased to be governed by Europeans, it ruined and impoverished.
I think that you will understand my point, right?



I spoke of Argentina, Uruguay etc, not Mexico.
The decline of Mexico occur for the reason above commented, and because USA stole them much of its territories.

Okay, okay, you've made your point. It was stupid of me to put African Americans on the list and not Spaniards above them.


Yikes. Hey we're allies now though.

of course. :) Still doesn't mean I have to like them though.

[Wadaad]

I thought about the Dutch but then you could say Poles, French etc also played a part.

Unlike the case for the Dutch and French...America was already 'built' by the time Poles and other East Euros came en masse.

[riverman]

of course. :) Still doesn't mean I have to like them though.

I get fish & chips occasionally, matie. I also bought a t-shirt with a Union Jack on it, England pride!

[xajapa]

Unlike the case for the Dutch and French...America was already 'built' by the time Poles and other East Euros came en masse.
It really depends upon your idea of " built." I live in one of the states that were part of the thirteen original colonies, but I can tell you that most of the small towns around here were founded only 100- 125 years ago. This area was focal point of much of the heavy industry that made the US great (steel, coal, glass, iron, oil, etc.), and most of these towns were carved out of farm land, for these heavy industries, and then populated by recent immigrants from southern and eastern Europe. These people then built the towns. My father's uncles were sons of an Italian immigrant. They worked in the steel mills and as iron workers. Some made the steel, some put up the skyscrapers in a major US city. If you could ask them, they would tell you they built the US, not the farmers, whose ancestors had been here 100 or more years before theirs. In my area Italians, Poles, Ukrainians, Serbs and Croats made the steel, glass, iron, and pulled the coal and oil out of the ground. That is really what made the US great.

[Atlantic Islander]

It really depends upon your idea of " built." I live in one of the states that were part of the thirteen original colonies, but I can tell you that most of the small towns around here were founded only 100- 125 years ago. This area was focal point of much of the heavy industry that made the US great (steel, coal, glass, iron, oil, etc.), and most of these towns were carved out of farm land, for these heavy industries, and then populated by recent immigrants from southern and eastern Europe. These people then built the towns. My father's uncles were sons of an Italian immigrant. They worked in the steel mills and as iron workers. Some made the steel, some put up the skyscrapers in a major US city. If you could ask them, they would tell you they built the US, not the farmers, whose ancestors had been here 100 or more years before theirs. In my area Italians, Poles, Ukrainians, Serbs and Croats made the steel, glass, iron, and pulled the coal and oil out of the ground. That is really what made the US great.

Very good point. I agree.

[Cristiano viejo]

The cities were founded by Spaniards but built by Americans (or immigrants). Therefore, they have a typical American appearance nowadays.

It´s hard to imagine how anyone can found a city without building it automatically after having founded :p

But as I have a lot of imagination xD, I see what you want say me. Obviously the cities dont stop growing, and the cities of USA when it have grown more was in the XX century, but that does not mean that when it were founded there were ten persons living in a stable as you suggest :rolleyes:

Yet nowadays survive some ancient remnants of those cities

CASTLE OF SAN MARCOS, SAN AGUSTÍN DE LA FLORIDAhttp://www.augustine.com/images/staugustine_business/original/castillo_west_aerial_5x3.jpg
http://www.augustine.com/images/staugustine_business/original/castillo_interior_5x3.jpg
LOOK THE SPANISH FLAG YET IN THE CASTLE:thumb001:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2hvgb5Lj2e4/UPf2OllAftI/AAAAAAAACLI/X0bCHlQd4aQ/s1600/castillo+de+San+Marcos,+San+Agust%C3%ADn,+Florida+ (5).jpg


The oldest masonry fort in the continental United States, the Castillo de San Marcos is a large Spanish stone fortress built to protect and defend Spain’s claims in the New World. It’s a National Monument and, at over 315 years old, it’s the oldest structure in the entire city! At the fort you will … read morefind plenty to explore, from the numerous rooms that once housed soldiers and prisoners of every era, to the large interior courtyard and gun deck which offers a great view of the city. This is a magnificent attraction for the whole family to learn about the nation's oldest city. Re-enactments, cannon firings, and weaponry demonstrations are held on a regular basis.

A brief history of the fort:

Construction began on the Castillo de San Marcos in 1672 and lasted 23 years, until 1695. Many Spanish forts preceded the Castillo, however, this one made of coquina was impenetrable to enemy attack and was fire resistant. The fort came under fire for the first time in 1702. British forces, led by General Moore, burned the city but could not penetrate the Castillo’s walls. Subsequent attacks in 1728 and 1740 yielded similar results, and the British were never able to take the city of St. Augustine by force.

By the way, the current flags of Florida, Alabama, Arizona, and New Mexico represent the flag of Spain :love:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?72790-Which-flags-from-the-Americas-are-your-favorites/page3

MISSION OF SANTA BÁRBARA, CALIFORNIA
http://guias-viajar.com/estados-unidos/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/fotos-santa-barbara-mision-espanola-001-450x333.jpg
http://guias-viajar.com/estados-unidos/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/fotos-santa-barbara-mision-espanola-002-450x338.jpg

OLVERA STREET. HERE WAS BORN LOS ÁNGELES :thumb001:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Olvera_st_los_angeles.jpg

SAN FERNANDO CATHEDRAL, IN SAN ANTONIO (TEXAS), THE OLDEST CATHOLIC CATHEDRAL IN USA :thumb001:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/San_Fernando_Cathedral.jpg/603px-San_Fernando_Cathedral.jpg

ETC ETC ETC.


And after that?
After that, many Spaniards continued to live in the USA, in Louisiana, Texas and California, but also in Florida, Arizona or New Mexico. They were ranchers, cattlemen, farmers, and even fought in the American Civil War in favor of the general Lee. Others, such as Admiral David Farragut, fought in favor of Yankees :mad:
They also took part in the creation of USA.

In Lousiana mainly, there are between 45.000 and 70.000 Isleños (descendants of those Spanish settlers):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle%C3%B1o_American

The term Isleño American is applied to a people living in the southern United States who descended from Spanish settlers originally from the Canary Islands. They arrived in the U.S. in the 18th century and have preserved the culture of their ancestors until now.

In North USA we can see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_American. According to the 2000 US census, there are 57.793 Americans of full or partial Basque descent. They are in USA since XVIII century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_American

Spanish Americans are the earliest European American group, with a continuous presence since 1565.
According Wiki, there are more than 700.000 Spanish American in USA.

In this link you can see the number of Spanish companies, many of them among multinational corporations more important wideworld that currently operate in USA:
http://www.oficinascomerciales.es/icex/cma/contentTypes/common/records/mostrarDocumento/?doc=4612442
http://www.icex.es/icex/cma/contentTypes/common/records/mostrarDocumento/?doc=4639643

I believe that these companies also form part of the development of USA, and I wonder how many African companies and multinationalcorporations, or from other European countries such as Slavics for example, there are in the USA...

I would like to highlight also the impact that had on American culture the Spanish horses (called Mustangs in USA) that were brought to the conquest of America.

In 1971, the United States Congress recognized Mustangs as "living symbols of the historic and pioneer spirit of the West, which continue to contribute to the diversity of life forms within the Nation and enrich the lives of the American people." LOL LOL LOL
Without them, Billy the kid would be nothing :p




African Americans worked in the cotton fields and later in the factories. So, they contributed to the economy. Furthermore, they contributed to American music, that's undeniable.
Insufficient. For that reason you should include also Mexicans and other Amerindian people, and Chinese. And you did not it.

Following that logic, you should think that Italians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Greeks, Yugoslavs and Turks workers built your country after 2WW.
A bit ilogic, I guess :rolleyes:

Jews heavily contributed to American science and culture. Take a look at the American Nobel laureates.
Nobel Prize is judaized and politicized to maximum.
Only a prize so politicized is able to grant the Nobel Peace Prize to Obama just after sending troops to Afghanistan, or to murderer Henry Kissinger, guilty of numerous genocides worldwide :picard1:
Nobel Prize is a joke.

African Americans and Jews have destroyed much more than what they have apported to USA.
Jews with their MTV, Jewllyhood, support to gay marriage, racial mix, lost of occidental values, attacks to christianism, promote abortion, "positive" discrimination, wars for Israel in whole world............................................. ....
African Americans with their crimes, drugs etc in whole USA.

Argentina and Uruguay are special cases.
Why? it were rich and prosperous colonies while it belonged to Spain, and even much later still.
In the last decades, ruled by mestizos (Menem for example is Arab), arrived to chaos, as I already explained in my previous post.


These territories were sparsely populated, only 2 % of the Mexican population lived there, and of no great value.
The main reason for its decline was become ruled by mestizos, but man, USA stole to Mexico more than half of its territory, which includes the totality of what today are the States of California, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico and Texas, and parts of Arizona, Colorado, Wyoming, Kansas and Oklahoma :picard1::picard1:, it´s legitimate to think that something so easily can lead to the decline to any country.

[riverman]

Unlike the case for the Dutch and French...America was already 'built' by the time Poles and other East Euros came en masse.



...WRONG.............

[Wolf]

Yet nowadays survive some ancient remnants of those cities

And who built this "remnants"?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8511/8495524229_3d49015baf_b.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Looking_Up_at_Empire_State_Building.JPG



They also took part in the creation of USA.

Like many others, but the question remains who was the most important ethnicity.



According Wiki, there are more than 700.000 Spanish American in USA.

According to Wiki there are approx. 51 million German Americans, and now?



I would like to highlight also the impact that had on American culture the Spanish horses (called Mustangs in USA) that were brought to the conquest of America.

As far as I know, Mustangs are savaged horses. So, their economic benefit is doubtful.



Insufficient. For that reason you should include also Mexicans and other Amerindian people, and Chinese. And you did not it.

I've made that point clear in a former post.



Following that logic, you should think that Italians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Greeks, Yugoslavs and Turks workers built your country after 2WW.

Because all German workers vanished without a trace?



A bit ilogic, I guess :rolleyes:

:picard1:



Nobel Prize is judaized and politicized to maximum.
Only a prize so politicized is able to grant the Nobel Peace Prize to Obama just after sending troops to Afghanistan, or to murderer Henry Kissinger, guilty of numerous genocides worldwide :picard1:
Nobel Prize is a joke.

That's the Nobel Peace Prize, what's about the Nobel Prizes in Chemistry, Physics and Physiology/Medicine?



African Americans and Jews have destroyed much more than what they have apported to USA.

Jews with their MTV, Jewllyhood, support to gay marriage, racial mix, lost of occidental values, attacks to christianism, promote abortion, "positive" discrimination, wars for Israel in whole world............................................. ....

That's not Jewish malice, that's left politics.



African Americans with their crimes, drugs etc in whole USA.

You should listen to this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHRbEhLj540



Why? it were rich and prosperous colonies while it belonged to Spain, and even much later still.
In the last decades, ruled by mestizos (Menem for example is Arab), arrived to chaos, as I already explained in my previous post.

We had this dicussion before.



The main reason for its decline was become ruled by mestizos, but man, USA stole to Mexico more than half of its territory, which includes the totality of what today are the States of California, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico and Texas, and parts of Arizona, Colorado, Wyoming, Kansas and Oklahoma :picard1::picard1:, it´s legitimate to think that something so easily can lead to the decline to any country.


These territories were sparsely populated, only 2 % of the Mexican population lived there, and of no great value.

[Cristiano viejo]

And who built this "remnants"?
I just want to show that Spaniards also contributed to the construction of USA, in fact were the first to do it; the most ancient monuments of USA the Spaniards made it, and it´s very unfair that nobody has named them in this thread, except me.



Like many others, but the question remains who was the most important ethnicity.
Funny, because everybody named four or five ethnic groups :rolleyes::bored:


According to Wiki there are approx. 51 million German Americans, and now?
Oh, if we take into account all those people in USA who have some Spanish ancestry, the numbers would be very different :thumb001:


As far as I know, Mustangs are savaged horses. So, their economic benefit is doubtful.
First, nobody here is talking about economic benefits, but build America, I guess as nation, as country, not as economic power or something so.
Second, in any country in the world, horses have always reported economic benefits, and USA is no exception.
Third, Mustangs are not wild horse, not all at least.


I've made that point clear in a former post.

Not for me.



Because all German workers vanished without a trace?

I dont understand your point here, sincerely.
But, I repeat, if for you, African Americans contributed to build USA "because they worked in cotton plantations", then the logical thing would be to think that Italians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Greeks, Yugoslavs and Turks also helped build Germany after the 2WW, or rather, to rebuild.


:picard1:
why :picard1:? I said that it was "a bit ilogic".



That's the Nobel Peace Prize, what's about the Nobel Prizes in Chemistry, Physics and Physiology/Medicine?

Chemistry, Physics and Medicine still belong to same Prize than Peace. Nobel Prize altogether is a fraud.

I would like to comment that with the lot of million of dollars USA goes to the Jewish minority in education (or arms as it´s the case of Israel) it is not surprising that there are so many 'scientists' Jews :rolleyes:



That's not Jewish malice, that's left politics.

You sound really very naïve, with the aggravating circumstance that you are German.



You should listen to this:

I guess that it will report many economic benefits, true? :icon_lol:



We had this dicussion before.

I dont remember having discussed it.


These territories were sparsely populated, only 2 % of the Mexican population lived there, and of no great value.
Well, even if you dont want to see that the fact of losing more than 50% of the territory implies a decline, harsh reality is that those territories were of great value, as thus it confirms the fact that Anglosaxons wanted it for them.

We have the example of Alaska; 700.000 people live there, from a total of 316 million people of USA.
MUCH LESS THAN 2% OF THE TOTAL :thumb001:

[Wolf]

I just want to show that Spaniards also contributed to the construction of USA, in fact were the first to do it; the most ancient monuments of USA the Spaniards made it, and it´s very unfair that nobody has named them in this thread, except me.

Well, I see your point and would agree with you that the Spaniards are not neglectable, but they're still far away from being the most important ethinicity in the USA.



Funny, because everybody named four or five ethnic groups :rolleyes::bored:

That's because this question is not easily answered.



Oh, if we take into account all those people in USA who have some Spanish ancestry, the numbers would be very different.

Are you sure that you want to include Mexicans?



First, nobody here is talking about economic benefits, but build America, I guess as nation, as country, not as economic power or something so.

You don't regard economical prosperity as crucial for a nation? :confused:



I dont understand your point here, sincerely.
But, I repeat, if for you, African Americans contributed to build USA "because they worked in cotton plantations", then the logical thing would be to think that Italians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Greeks, Yugoslavs and Turks also helped build Germany after the 2WW, or rather, to rebuild.

Let's drop the subject, we're not discussing the history of Germany here.



why :picard1:? I said that it was "a bit ilogic".

Because of your superb comparison. :rolleyes:



Chemistry, Physics and Medicine still belong to same Prize than Peace. Nobel Prize altogether is a fraud.

I would like to comment that with the lot of million of dollars USA goes to the Jewish minority in education (or arms as it´s the case of Israel) it is not surprising that there are so many 'scientists' Jews :rolleyes:

:picard1:



You sound really very naïve, with the aggravating circumstance that you are German.

Would you be so kind and enlighten me.



I guess that it will report many economic benefits, true? :icon_lol:

Cultural would be more suitable here.



Well, even if you dont want to see that the fact of losing more than 50% of the territory implies a decline, harsh reality is that those territories were of great value, as thus it confirms the fact that Anglosaxons wanted it for them.

That must be the reason why they also payed 15.000.000 $ for it.



We have the example of Alaska; 700.000 people live there, from a total of 316 million people of USA. MUCH LESS THAN 2% OF THE TOTAL :thumb001:

Alaska was also of no great value when the US bought it. We all know that nowadays that looks a littledifferent.

[Smeagol]

African Americans and Jews have destroyed much more than what they have apported to USA.
Jews with their MTV, Jewllyhood, support to gay marriage, racial mix, lost of occidental values, attacks to christianism, promote abortion, "positive" discrimination, wars for Israel in whole world............................................. ....
African Americans with their crimes, drugs etc in whole USA.

I just want to point out that that it's not all Jews who support that, and before the Jews started supporting these things, they contributed a lot of good things to America.

[Steven]

No the English obviously built this country far more then any other.

[Smeagol]

I just want to point out that that it's not all Jews who support that, and before the Jews started supporting these things, they contributed a lot of good things to America.

For example:

Haym Solomon was a Sephardic Jew who immigrated to New York from Poland during the period of the American Revolution, he was a broker and helped convert the French loans into ready cash by selling bills of exchange for Robert Morris, the Superintendent of Finance. In this way he aided the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary War against Great Britain. Without him, the revolution would have failed.

Charles Lewis Levin was a Leader of the Know-Nothings (Anti-Immigration party)

Judah P. Benjamin was the Secretary of State, and Secretary of War for the Confederacy, which over 10,000 Jews fought for.

[WOOHP]

I had the same discussion with a Portuguese member.

You guys need to stop pretending. Americans of Iberian ancestry has not nearly contributed as much to our society as Germans/English/Irish.
Almost all Whites are of Northwestern ancestry, the only excpetion is Northeast and some small parts of Midwest(Polish).

[Euramerican]

Which Slavs in particular?

There are a lot of Croatians in the US dating as far back as the civil war.

[Cristiano viejo]

I had the same discussion with a Portuguese member.

You guys need to stop pretending. Americans of Iberian ancestry has not nearly contributed as much to our society as Germans/English/Irish.
It is the third time that I give you this link
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?83330-Which-ethnicity-helped-built-America-the-most&p=1677190#post1677190

and review the thread
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?83330-Which-ethnicity-helped-built-America-the-most/page17
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?83330-Which-ethnicity-helped-built-America-the-most/page18
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?83330-Which-ethnicity-helped-built-America-the-most/page19

Almost all Whites are of Northwestern ancestry, the only excpetion is Northeast and some small parts of Midwest(Polish).

False. There are a lot of Americans from Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Greek and Yugoslavian ancestry.

[WOOHP]

It is the third time that I give you this link
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?83330-Which-ethnicity-helped-built-America-the-most&p=1677190#post1677190

and review the thread
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?83330-Which-ethnicity-helped-built-America-the-most/page17
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?83330-Which-ethnicity-helped-built-America-the-most/page18
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?83330-Which-ethnicity-helped-built-America-the-most/page19


False. There are a lot of Americans from Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Greek and Yugoslavian ancestry.

FALSE? HAH.

People of pure Spanish ancestry is only somewhat common in the Southwest(Hispanos), but even there they are far less in number than Germans, English or Irish people.

Spanish settlers named some cities and build some monuments in the states that once belonged to Mexico. Today you guys are very marginalized. In almost every state the amount of Iberian(Not including mestizos, castizos) ancestry is below 0,5%. Deal with it.

[Stefan]

English

[Geni]

Espagnols are idiots..and hispanics idiots²

[Cristiano viejo]

Espagnols are idiots..and hispanics idiots²
Since I know you emigrated to Brindisi in that boat, I am curious to know which of those is you :icon_lol:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MQkv3QWHAk

FALSE? HAH.
Of course, false.

People of pure Spanish ancestry is only somewhat common in the Southwest(Hispanos),
People of pure Spanish ancestry are not what you understand by Hispano (ie, Mexicans, Bolivians or ethnic groups so).

As I see that you avoid to comment my previous posts because you dont know how to answer it, I will just say you that there are descendants of Spaniards in the USA since the XVI century, many of them living in Louisiana and are called Isleños, although many of them are Cajuns, mixed with descendants of French, which by the way if they live in USA is due to the Spanish, that allowed them to stay to live in Louisiana :thumb001:
There are also a lot of Spaniards living in Oregon, Idaho, Nevada or Washington since XVIII century.
But as you are an ignorant, you dont know anything about this.

but even there they are far less in number than Germans, English or Irish people.
No one said otherwise.

Spanish settlers named some cities and build some monuments in the states that once belonged to Mexico. [Q
Hahahahah really you are an authentic ignorant :picard1:... or a true lier, which is worse... :confused:
States that once belonged to Mexico, you say???????????????????????????? hahahahaha
It belonged FIRSTLY to Spain, IGNORANT.


Today you guys are very marginalized. In almost every state the amount of Iberian(Not including mestizos, castizos) ancestry is below 0,5%. Deal with it.

In what sense marginalized? discriminated? I guess you dont refer to that.
Two or three month ago, as I indicated in one of my previous posts, in Florida was even celebrated the 500º anniversary of the arrival of the Spaniards to these lands.

Besides from the fact that flags of Florida, Alabama, New Mexico and Arizona represented in one way or another the flag of Spain, you can see how they honor in Texas or Florida its Spanish past

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Florida#Five_Flags_over_Florida

http://www.erichinote.com/_images/_portfolio/celebrate3.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Five_flags_of_Florida.jpg/800px-Five_flags_of_Florida.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_flags_over_Texas

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Six_Flags_of_Texas.jpg/700px-Six_Flags_of_Texas.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Soto_National_Memorial


De Soto National Memorial, 5 miles (8 km) west of Bradenton, Florida, commemorates the 1539 landing of Hernando de Soto and the first extensive organized exploration by Europeans of what is now the southern United States.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Bradenton_FL_DeSoto_Natl_Mem01.jpg/250px-Bradenton_FL_DeSoto_Natl_Mem01.jpg

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_full_width_scaled/hash/0c/24/De%20Soto%20National%20Memorial%20Sign.jpg?itok=8Z HUXkAg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1EiOgda5G0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYW7SV2HIT0

[Xárszászát]

Cristiano, we're talking which ethnicity helped THE MOST.
We'll agree that Spain was probably the first contributor but in terms of quantity (quality is highly subjective), Spanish contribution is low.
Obviously there are many tracks of Spanish past presence in the name itself of some states and cities, but this doesn't make Spaniards one of the most important ethnicity.
For example, lots of Italians emigrated to Brazil, but I would hardly say they were the main creators of the country.

[Cristiano viejo]

Cristiano, we're talking which ethnicity helped THE MOST.
We'll agree that Spain was probably the first contributor but in terms of quantity (quality is highly subjective), Spanish contribution is low.
Obviously there are many tracks of Spanish past presence in the name itself of some states and cities, but this doesn't make Spaniards one of the most important ethnicity.
At any time I have claimed that the Spaniards are the ethnicity helped the most.

But I found hilarious the fact that to many users to name four or five ethnicities, and never the Spanish. They named Poles, Croats, Russians, French, Dutch, Jews, Blacks, Chinese, etc etc, and of course, it´s ridiculous name some ethnicities just because they worked in USA (As I said to Wolf, then Italians, Spaniards etc should be recognized as those who built Germany, and that is a bit ilogic), but not a single mention to Spanish, who were the first who discovered these lands, the first to colonize it, the first to fight with the Indians, the first who laid foundations, and who more time are living in USA without interruption since ever.

Saying this does not mean that Spaniards are ethnicity that has most helped build USA. But when I read lies such as that there is not or there has been never pure Spaniards living in USA, or that the Spaniards have not contributed absolutely nothing to build USA, I can not be silent.



For example, lots of Italians emigrated to Brazil, but I would hardly say they were the main creators of the country.

Main creators not but it´s undeniable that Italians have contributed to build it.

[Peyrol]

Cristiano, we're talking which ethnicity helped THE MOST.
We'll agree that Spain was probably the first contributor but in terms of quantity (quality is highly subjective), Spanish contribution is low.
Obviously there are many tracks of Spanish past presence in the name itself of some states and cities, but this doesn't make Spaniards one of the most important ethnicity.
For example, lots of Italians emigrated to Brazil, but I would hardly say they were the main creators of the country.

Brazil (or at least some brazilian states) would be nothing without the italic (mostly north italics) immigrants.
Absolutely nothing.

But this is anohter discussion.

[Xárszászát]

At any time I have claimed that the Spaniards are the ethnicity helped the most.

But I found hilarious the fact that to many users to name four or five ethnicities, and never the Spanish. They named Poles, Croats, Russians, French, Dutch, Jews, Blacks, Chinese, etc etc, and of course, it´s ridiculous name some ethnicities just because they worked in USA (As I said to Wolf, then Italians, Spaniards etc should be recognized as those who built Germany, and that is a bit ilogic), but not a single mention to Spanish, who were the first who discovered these lands, the first to colonize it, the first to fight with the Indians, the first who laid foundations, and who more time are living in USA without interruption since ever.

Saying this does not mean that Spaniards are ethnicity that has most helped build USA. But when I read lies such as that there is not or there has been never pure Spaniards living in USA, or that the Spaniards have not contributed absolutely nothing to build USA, I can not be silent.



Main creators not but it´s undeniable that Italians have contributed to build it.
I agree, the point is that we are discussing the ethnicities which helped the MOST.
Basing on this, neither Spaniards nor Croatians or Dutch etc should've named (I disagree on Blacks but that's a matter of point of view).

Brazil (or at least some brazilian states) would be nothing without the italic (mostly north italics) immigrants.
Absolutely nothing.

But this is anohter discussion.

I know the colonies in the South (don't forget that I am from Trentino and that lots of my fellows went there) but saying they founded the whole Brazil is a bit pretestuous.

[King Claus]

germans contributed the most...

[Stefan]

English

To expand on this. Most U.S states have a common law system (excluding Louisiana and a few other southern states.) English is the most widely spoken language. Culturally, Americans are heavily anglicized by particular oppressed groups (in England) including Puritans, Quakers, etc. Politically, Americans are truer to English (classical) liberalism than most English are. So on, and so on. The overall cultural contribution of German-Americans is quite low outside certain areas. I'd put other British ethnicities ahead of Germans even. German-Americans were very good at assimilating and didn't culturally diffuse.

[Euramerican]

FALSE? HAH.

People of pure Spanish ancestry is only somewhat common in the Southwest(Hispanos), but even there they are far less in number than Germans, English or Irish people.

Spanish settlers named some cities and build some monuments in the states that once belonged to Mexico. Today you guys are very marginalized. In almost every state the amount of Iberian(Not including mestizos, castizos) ancestry is below 0,5%. Deal with it.You can't leave out Latin Americans. They have roughly +or- 50% Spanish ancestry.

The Spanish did more than you think. They explored much of America 50 years before any English showed up. If it were not for the Spanish explorers, the rest of Europe would not only not come to the new world, they would not know about the new world. The Spanish opened up the door.

[Wolf]

The overall cultural contribution of German-Americans is quite low outside certain areas.


You owe us your favourite beer! ;)

http://static.grindtv.com/images/1/00/14/05/93/140593.jpg



I'd put other British ethnicities ahead of Germans even.

Whom exactly?



They explored much of America 50 years before any English showed up.

Wrong, John Cabot (Giovanni Caboto) already discovered Newfoundland in 1497 on behalf of Henry VII.



If it were not for the Spanish explorers, the rest of Europe would not only not come to the new world, they would not know about the new world. The Spanish opened up the door.

Spaniards like Columbus, right?

[Peyrol]

Spaniards like Columbus, right?

It was ligurian, not spaniard.

[Wolf]

It was ligurian, not spaniard.

You don't say. ;)

[Cristiano viejo]

Whom exactly?
Scotts and Irish*.

I want say that a very typical thing in the American culture are the burgers :lightbul:, USA would not be the same without the burgers...




Wrong, John Cabot (Giovanni Caboto) already discovered Newfoundland in 1497 on behalf of Henry VII.
Wrong.
If you understand America as a continent, then the Spanish were the first to discover and colonize it, and if you understand America as USA, then the Spanish were the first to discover and colonize it also (Ponce de León, in Florida at 1513).

Anyway if Cabot did what he did was thanks to the success of the previous Spanish explorations.



Spaniards like Columbus, right?

Many historians doubt that he was Italian, some of them say that he was Catalan, others say was Balear, others that he was Portuguese, and some even say that he was Jewish.

But what is really important is that the discovery was rather a mistake of his maritime calculations, and obviously without Spain he would not even have come to America.

Colonization (curiously derived from his name) was something much more grandiose than the discovery itself, as I say, by chance.

[Peyrol]

Colombo was a genovese-born (in ligurian language his name was Crystoffa Corombo) navigator who worked and lived for/in castillian kingdom, wrote in castillian/catalan/portuguese/ligurian and married a catalan women.

But this is another topic...the fact is that was Spain who financed the deep exploration of central and south America and opened the way to the future european (and african) permanent settlements, this is undeniable.

No Spain, no modern concept of America, simply.

The fact that many of the explorers were italics which worked for other states (Caboto, Verazzano, Beltrami, etc) it's another thing.

[Atlantic Islander]

Wrong, John Cabot (Giovanni Caboto) already discovered Newfoundland in 1497 on behalf of Henry VII.


Corte-Real also. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaspar_Corte-Real)

[Stefan]

Whom exactly?

Scottish/Scots-Irish




The civic tradition of the Scottish Enlightenment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Enlightenment) contributed to the intellectual ferment of the American Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution).In 1740, the Glasgow philosopher Francis Hutcheson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Hutcheson_(philosopher)) argued for a right of colonial resistance to tyranny.Scotland's leading thinkers of the revolutionary age, David Hume (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hume) and Adam Smith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Smith), opposed the use of force against the rebellious colonies. According to the historian Arthur Herman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Herman): “Americans built their world around the principles of Adam Smith and Thomas Reid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Reid), of individual interest governed by common sense and a limited need for government.”
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_American#cite_note-Ref_l-23)


Nineteen of the fifty-six delegates who signed the Declaration of Independence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Declaration_of_Independence) came from Scotland or Ulster or, like the Scottish-tutored Thomas Jefferson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson), had ancestors there. Other Founding Fathers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers) like James Madison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Madison)had no ancestral connection but were imbued with ideas drawn from Scottish moral philosophy. Scottish Americans who made major contributions to the revolutionary war included Commodore John Paul Jones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_Jones), the "Father of the American Navy", and Generals Henry Knox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Knox) and William Alexander (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Alexander_(American_general)). Another person of note was personal friend of George Washington, General Hugh Mercer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Mercer), who fought for Charles Edward Stuart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Edward_Stuart) at the Battle of Culloden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Culloden).

[Atlantic Islander]

Scottish/Scots-Irish

Yeah, people overestimate the German presence/contribution. All those people that think they're part German when in reality they are just another English/Irish/Scottish, etc. mix.

[WOOHP]

Of course, false.

People of pure Spanish ancestry are not what you understand by Hispano (ie, Mexicans, Bolivians or ethnic groups so).
Americans of Iberian Ancestry(not Mexican they are "Hispanic") are called Hispanos. There are some small communities in former Spanish regions like Arizona, New Mexico and California. However they are quite few. Way less than the English, Germans, Irish, Scots-Irish and so on.
Acutally California got more inhabitants with Scandinavian ancestry than Hispanos(real Iberian).

As I see that you avoid to comment my previous posts because you dont know how to answer it, I will just say you that there are descendants of Spaniards in the USA since the XVI century, many of them living in Louisiana and are called Isleños, although many of them are Cajuns, mixed with descendants of French, which by the way if they live in USA is due to the Spanish, that allowed them to stay to live in Louisiana :thumb001:
What?
Alot of Spaniards? Can you post some statistics? Cajuns have small Spanish ancestry just like they have small Native American admixture. But they are ofc mostly French.

There are also a lot of Spaniards living in Oregon, Idaho, Nevada or Washington since XVIII century.
But as you are an ignorant, you dont know anything about this.
Source?


No one said otherwise.

Hahahahah really you are an authentic ignorant :picard1:... or a true lier, which is worse... :confused:
States that once belonged to Mexico, you say???????????????????????????? hahahahaha
It belonged FIRSTLY to Spain, IGNORANT.
WHATEVER.


In what sense marginalized? discriminated? I guess you dont refer to that.
Two or three month ago, as I indicated in one of my previous posts, in Florida was even celebrated the 500º anniversary of the arrival of the Spaniards to these lands.
I meant that they are not alot of them. Before the Hispanic immigration to Florida I seriously doubt that there was alot of Spanish Americans living there.
And I can't see how that celebration is relevant to our discussion. We all know that Florida once belonged to Spain.

[Stefan]

Yeah, people overestimate the German presence/contribution. All those people that think they're part German when in reality they are just another English/Irish/Scottish, etc. mix.

Germans are still the largest ethnicity, and there is no overestimation of German ancestry (most emigration westward came from highly German states - New York, Pennsylvania, Delaware.) Nevertheless, Germans were good at assimilating, and in many ways too good so that there was very little cultural diffusion. Furthermore, at the time of the largest migrations there was no unified German ethnicity.

[WOOHP]

Yeah, people overestimate the German presence/contribution. All those people that think they're part German when in reality they are just another English/Irish/Scottish, etc. mix.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Germans are quite well represented in the Midwest. All the way from Pennsylvania to Oregon. However I do think that Anglos arn't that far behind in number excpet for some states like the Dakotas, Minnesota and Wisconsin.

[Atlantic Islander]

Germans are still the largest ethnicity, and there is no overestimation of German ancestry (most emigration westward came from highly German states - New York, Pennsylvania, Delaware.) Nevertheless, Germans were good at assimilating, and in many ways too good so that there was very little cultural diffusion. Furthermore, at the time of the largest migrations there was no unified German ethnicity.

Other groups have assimilated and still keep their traditions going.

[xajapa]

There are a lot of Croatians in the US dating as far back as the civil war.
First Croatian church in the US:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas_Croatian_Catholic_Church

[Wolf]

German-Americans were very good at assimilating and didn't culturally diffuse.

The fact that they're less noticeable doesn't mean that they haven't contributed anything.

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/files/2008/09/race-white-german-assimilation-cartoon.jpg



Furthermore, at the time of the largest migrations there was no unified German ethnicity.

I heavily doubt that.



Wrong.
If you understand America as a continent, then the Spanish were the first to discover and colonize it, and if you understand America as USA, then the Spanish were the first to discover and colonize it also (Ponce de León, in Florida at 1513).

Anyway if Cabot did what he did was thanks to the success of the previous Spanish explorations.

I never doubted that, read the post to which I referred again. BTW, without the previous Portuguese explorations the Discovery of America by Columbus wouldn't have happened, too.



Colonization (curiously derived from his name) was something much more grandiose than the discovery itself, as I say, by chance.

"Coloniziation" is derived from Columbus, are you serious? :rolleyes:

[Cristiano viejo]

Americans of Iberian Ancestry(not Mexican they are "Hispanic") are called Hispanos.
As far as I know, Hispanic and Hispanos mean the same thing.

Actually, the unique and authentic Hispanos or Hispanic are the inhabitants of Hispania, ie, of the Iberian peninsula.


There are some small communities in former Spanish regions like Arizona, New Mexico and California.
And in more States such as Lousiana, Idaho etc etc

However they are quite few. Way less than the English, Germans, Irish, Scots-Irish and so on.
Acutally California got more inhabitants with Scandinavian ancestry than Hispanos(real Iberian).
No one doubts that.

What?
Alot of Spaniards? Can you post some statistics? Cajuns have small Spanish ancestry just like they have small Native American admixture. But they are ofc mostly French.

I already showed you these statistics in my previous posts. Here again

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_American

Spanish Americans are the earliest European American group, with a continuous presence since 1565.

According Wikipedia, there are more than 700.000 pure Spaniards living in USA.

Only in Lousiana you have between 45.000 and 70.000 Isleños http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle%C3%B1o_American

http://estaticos03.cache.el-mundo.net/america/imagenes/2010/06/21/1277136745_0.jpg
JULES and RANDY NÚÑEZ, Isleños owners of a fish market in Bahía Barataria, Lousiana
http://www.elmundo.es/america/2010/06/21/estados_unidos/1277136745.html




Source?
Again :coffee:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_American

Basque Americans are citizens of the United States who are of Basque ancestry. According to the 2000 US census, there are 57,793 Americans of full or partial Basque descent.
The states with the largest Basque-American populations are California (20,868), Idaho (6,637), Nevada (6,096), Washington (2,665) and Oregon (2,627).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asturian_American

The first Asturian immigrants came to North America as soldiers, officers and settlers with the Spanish Army in the wake of Spain's conquest of what is today Mexico and the southwestern US.


I never doubted that, read the post to which I referred again. BTW, without the previous Portuguese explorations the Discovery of America by Columbus wouldn't have happened, too.
Previous Portuguese explorations... where, in Africa?? :rolleyes: ok, if you want, we can go back to the Palaeolithic period, or even more far still :rolleyes: and find someone who did something and so we can thank him for all the successes that humanity managed later :picard1:


"Coloniziation" is derived from Columbus, are you serious? :rolleyes:

In Spanish it´s Colón, I argue that it has something to do with "to colonize".

[Peyrol]

Colombo (Corombo in ligurian language) was simply the italian for ''Paloma'', CristianoViejo...

[Virtuous]

Catholics were considered inferior

Best president of the United States ever: JFK. Was Catholic.

[Sisak]

I'm not sure whether such properties exist in reality or only in film, but the house in the USA remind me of home-factory of rich people-landowners from Slavonia and Vojvodina.

[Wolf]

Previous Portuguese explorations... where, in Africa??

Yes, the previous Portuguese explorations were essential for the Discovery of America. The Portuguese developed the ships and gained the nautical experiences which Columbus needed for his expedition. BTW, before Columbus turned to Spain he'd tried to convince the Portuguese king John II of his plan.



In Spanish it´s Colón, I argue that it has something to do with "to colonize".

:picard1:

"colony" is derived from the Latin word "colonia". I would be surprised if the Romans already knew of Columbus.



Best president of the United States ever: JFK. Was Catholic.

Maybe that's because of the fact that he was only 2 years in office.

[Empecinado]

BTW, the culture derived from the colonization of the Western USA, with cowboys, ranches, livestock and so on is a tradition started by the Spaniards, who practiced in various parts of the Americas and has it origins in the traditions of south Spain.

[HispaniaSagrada]

As far as I know, Hispanic and Hispanos mean the same thing.

Actually, the unique and authentic Hispanos or Hispanic are the inhabitants of Hispania, ie, of the Iberian peninsula.

Not if you are talking about things in the American context. The two words are not the same. Hispanic in America does not equal Hispanico. I made a lengthy post about this early on when I joined this forum


Previous Portuguese explorations... where, in Africa?? :rolleyes: ok, if you want, we can go back to the Palaeolithic period, or even more far still :rolleyes: and find someone who did something and so we can thank him for all the successes that humanity managed later :picard1:

Don't be so proud you end up saying stupid things.


In Spanish it´s Colón, I argue that it has something to do with "to colonize".

If the name has anything to do with the word, the word would have come before the name, most likely you don't think?

[HispaniaSagrada]

Yes, the previous Portuguese explorations were essential for the Discovery of America. The Portuguese developed the ships and gained the nautical experiences which Columbus needed for his expedition. BTW, before Columbus turned to Spain he'd tried to convince the Portuguese king John II of his plan.

Not to mention maps and whatnot. I don't know why people get so proud of stupid shit, for example someone of one nationality being hired to navigate for a different crown and so politically the "discovery" or whatever counts to that nation so they get all full of hot air and praise how wonderful they are. Unbelievable.

[101DT]

About Cabot and Columbus
http://www.bris.ac.uk/Depts/History/Maritime/Sources/1498ayala.htm

Pedro de Ayala - 1498 - talking about cabot
I think Your Highnesses have already heard how the king of England has equipped a fleet to explore certain islands or mainland which he has been assured certain persons who set out last year from Bristol in search of the same have discovered. I have seen the map made by the discoverer, who is another Genoese like Columbus,.... For the last seven years the people of Bristol have equipped two, three [and] four caravels to go in search of the island of Brazil and the Seven Cities according to the fancy of this Genoese.


seems like they were Genoese;
a seafaring nation, so one might well believe it;

[Stefan]

Other groups have assimilated and still keep their traditions going.

Well, because of their large populations they initially didn't assimilate at all. In fact, you can still find many people with 100% German ancestry living in the U.S today. However, during the late 19th and early 20th centuries Germans were forcefully integrated due to Germanophobia, and consequently any German tradition was left behind, including language. That's what I meant when I said they assimilated "too" much.


The fact that they're less noticeable doesn't mean that they haven't contributed anything.

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/files/2008/09/race-white-german-assimilation-cartoon.jpg


I never said they hadn't contributed anything. That would be silly for a Pennsylvanian of Pa Dutch ancestry to say. Certainly the majority of things that are seen as specifically American didn't originate from Germany though, but from England and its periphery.



I heavily doubt that.


There was no unified Germany in the 17th century. In fact, the migrations were induced by the Thirty Years' War. It's also why during the American Revolutionary war the Hessians who fought for the British were called Hessians and not Germans and the German-Americans (who at that time didn't assimilate) had very little identification with the Hessians, if you read accounts.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/washington-urges-hessians-to-desert


Washington had first contemplated how to woo Hessian mercenaries away from their British employers to the Patriot forces the previous May. At that time, he recommended raising companies of German Americans to use against the German mercenaries anticipated to fight for Britain. He hoped that fighting against Americans from the same region would engender "a spirit of disaffection and desertion" among Britain's paid soldiers. Washington surmised that "If a few trusty, sensible fellows could get with them, I should think they would have great weight and influence with the common Soldiery, who certainly have no enmity towards us, having received no Injury, nor cause of [quarrel] from us." Though Washington was correct in realizing that many so-called English colonists were actually German immigrants, he was apparently unaware that most Germans living in the American colonies spoke southern German dialects, and they might well be derided by the British mercenaries—Hessians from the central German territory of Hesse--if they could understand one another at all.





One third of Pennsylvania (http://www.history.com/topics/pennsylvania)'s population was German speaking. Significant German-speaking populations also lived in the Shenandoah Valley of western Virginia (http://www.history.com/topics/virginia) and the Carolinas, as well as the Mohawk Valley of New York, the Raritan Valley of New Jersey (http://www.history.com/topics/new-jersey) and areas near Savannah, Georgia (http://www.history.com/topics/georgia). However, the vast majority of these German speakers originated from the Rhineland-Palatinate, Swabia and Salzburg. Although fellow members of the Holy Roman Empire and possibly readers of Hoch-Deutsch, the German used by Luther in his translation of the Bible, their spoken language would have been extremely difficult for Germans from other regions to understand. In addition, many German Americans remained neutral during the revolution, unwilling to oppose the empire that had offered them the opportunity to enjoy better and freer lives in its colonies than they had at home.

[101DT]

A lot of Germans also came to America after 1848;

[Gaijin]

Colombo was a genovese-born (in ligurian language his name was Crystoffa Corombo) navigator who worked and lived for/in castillian kingdom, wrote in castillian/catalan/portuguese/ligurian and married a catalan women.

But this is another topic...the fact is that was Spain who financed the deep exploration of central and south America and opened the way to the future european (and african) permanent settlements, this is undeniable.

No Spain, no modern concept of America, simply.

Christopher Colombus birthplace is unknown.
The only thing that is for certain, is that he grew up in Genova.

There are numerous sources claiming him as just any kind, however, Americans have famed him as Italian, hence that is the general belief.
Growing up in a place doesn't make one native.

He also married a Portuguese noblewoman Filipa Moniz Perestrelo, in the island Porto Santo, Madeira.


The fact that many of the explorers were italics which worked for other states (Caboto, Verazzano, Beltrami, etc) it's another thing.

I don't know how many of these Italic explorers who worked for others states you speak of, but if you can count (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_explorers) they were a minority...

[Stefan]

A lot of Germans also came to America after 1848;

Yes, but it's usually regarded as the smallest of the three-waves (late 17th century, early 18th century, and mid-late 19th century) and there are likely fewer descendants from this wave (they migrated to lower population areas - Mid-West and Texas mostly.)

[101DT]

Yes, but it's usually regarded as the smallest of the three-waves (late 17th century, early 18th century, and mid-late 19th century) and there are likely fewer descendants from this wave (they migrated to lower population areas - Mid-West and Texas mostly.)

Good to know;
I know one member of my family tree went to America around this time (~1851) - Wisconsin;
nothing else is known;


This is a good book about early German settlers;
http://archive.org/stream/pennsylvaniage00rich#page/n5/mode/2up

[Peyrol]

Christopher Colombus birthplace is unknown.
The only thing that is for certain, is that he grew up in Genova.

There numerous sources claiming him as just any kind, however, Americans have famed him as Italian, hence that is the general belief.
Growing up in a place doesn't make one native.

He also married a Portuguese noblewoman Filipa Moniz Perestrelo, in the island Porto Santo, Madeira.



I don't know how many of these Italic explorers who worked for others states you speak of, but if you can count (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_explorers) they were a minority...

This list si spreaded through 5 centuries, we're talking about the exploration of America.

And there are a lot of sources about ligurian birth of Colombo, even the family tree and the parent's names.

[Xárszászát]

Never understood this Iberian obsession for taking Columbus as one of their own.
You have countless explorers, why this will to make him Iberian?

[Atlantic Islander]

Well, because of their large populations they initially didn't assimilate at all. In fact, you can still find many people with 100% German ancestry living in the U.S today. However, during the late 19th and early 20th centuries Germans were forcefully integrated due to Germanophobia, and consequently any German tradition was left behind, including language. That's what I meant when I said they assimilated "too" much.

They also weren't considered "white" just like every other non-British group.

[Atlantic Islander]

----

You guys can have him, he wasn't the true discoverer anyway. :p

[Ibericus]

To the initial question : After Anglos , the spaniards contibuted the most. Heck they founded half of what is now the USA, from California all the way to Florida.

[Xárszászát]

To the initial question : After Anglos , the spaniards contibuted the most. Heck they founded half of what is now the USA, from California all the way to Florida.

That's highly debatable.
Spanish influence is strong in the Southernmost states of USA but it's non-existent in the rest.
Plus, Spaniards did contribute to American victory in the War against UK but after that their influence was almost (excluding selling Florida).
Germans, Italians and Blacks were literally the backbone of USA after Britons and Irish.

[Ibericus]

That's highly debatable.
Spanish influence is strong in the Southernmost states of USA but it's non-existent in the rest.
Plus, Spaniards did contribute to American victory in the War against UK but after that their influence was almost (excluding selling Florida).
Germans, Italians and Blacks were literally the backbone of USA after Britons and Irish.
Don't make me laugh, There is nothing debatable about the spaniards founding and governing half of what is now the USA, and they also influenced the culture, (the rancho culture, cowboy, riding horses, etc is all of Spanish origin) :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8f/Viceroyalty_of_New_Spain_1789.png

[WOOHP]

As far as I know, Hispanic and Hispanos mean the same thing.

Actually, the unique and authentic Hispanos or Hispanic are the inhabitants of Hispania, ie, of the Iberian peninsula.
Google "Hispanos" and read about them. In California they are called "Californios".


And in more States such as Lousiana, Idaho etc etc
Idaho??



I already showed you these statistics in my previous posts. Here again

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_American
I havn't denied the fact that there ar Spanish Americans but they are very few, and they did not play an important role when it came to building up America.




Only in Lousiana you have between 45.000 and 70.000 Isleños http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle%C3%B1o_American
So??

[WOOHP]

To the initial question : After Anglos , the spaniards contibuted the most. Heck they founded half of what is now the USA, from California all the way to Florida.

OH DEAR ME. HAHAHAHHAHAHA.

Actually almost whole of Midwest belonged to France for several centuries and there are alot of Americans of fully or partly French ancestry living there. The Spaniards however only founded some cities but they did not help building up the worlds only superpower: USA.

Anglos and German Americans have, and are contributing the most to the US no question about that.

[SKYNET]

English, Germans, French, Irish, Italians, Scottish, Spanish = America's founding fathers

[riverman]

America isn't about Spain and the Reconquista etc., that's what you Iberians fail to understand, we had Spanish missions and have Spanish cultural influence however the general differences between Iberian and American culture is vast.

[KrashNick]

The British ...

[Mans not hot]

Jews. :laugh: