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Beorn
09-22-2009, 04:08 PM
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00553/dna_553759a.jpg


Interest in our ancestors has surged in recent years, thanks largely to the internet. The latest development is commercial DNA testing, which can reveal the possible migrations of a person’s distant ancestors or help to solve more recent genealogical problems.
The tests are painless, requiring a cheek swab. However, the science behind them is young, prices can be high and the results, as Times Money discovered, can be contradictory. Here we explore the market.

Why Y?

Several companies offer tests of men’s Y chromosomes — a piece of DNA that is passed down the male line and mutates slowly. Results give numerical values for a series of “markers”. The more closely these values match for two men, the more closely they are likely to be related in that line. Scientists have divided Y chromosomes into numerous “haplogroups”, or clans, each descended in the male line from a single ancestor who lived thousands of years ago. These can be linked in a family tree descended from the common male-line ancestor of all humans who lived in northeast Africa about 60,000 to 90,000 years ago.

Haplogroups can be subdivided into smaller, common-ancestor lineages. For instance, there is a Y chromosome signature characteristic of Jewish Cohens — the priestly caste said to descend from Aaron, the brother of Moses. Another is thought to indicate descent from Genghis Khan.

Ancient origins

The Genographic Project, a non-profit collaboration between IBM and National Geographic, offers a $100 (£60) test to determine a participant’s haplogroup. Results are accessed on the internet and explained in online videos and presentations.
The price subsidises DNA testing of indigenous peoples across the world for scientific study — including work for a forthcoming paper on the origins of the Tibetans.
A Genographic test indicates that I belong to haplogroup R1b, the most common in Western Europe. According to the project material, my ancestors moved from Africa, through Arabia into Central Asia and from there pushed westwards into Europe — spending the last Ice Age in a “refugium” in southern Spain before moving north, starting 12,000 years ago. Spencer Wells, the project scientist, says that it is difficult to track migrations after this because matches are found so widely.

Nevertheless, several providers offer tests with analysis of when the first male-line ancestor of customers with British ancestry is likely to have arrived on these shores. The best-known of these companies is Oxford Ancestors, founded by Bryan Sykes, Professor of Human Genetics at the University of Oxford. Customers pay £180 for a Y chromosome test of 15 markers (against 12 markers at the Genographic Project) and assignment to a haplogroup.
An extra £10 buys Tribes of Britain analysis to determine “Celtic, Saxon or Viking” ancestry. After tests that matched the Genographic Project’s on the common markers tested, the company designated my Y chromosome as most likely “Celtic”. Meanwhile, Andrew Ellson, the Times Money editor, was in haplogroup I and most likely “Anglo-Saxon”.

However, James Wilson, of the University of Edinburgh, a geneticist and founder of EthnoAncestry, another test company, disagrees. He says that Ellson’s Y chromosome is “almost certainly” indigenous British, of a rare type brought to Britain by the first post-Ice Age settlers. He adds that mine is harder to call, but of a type that came from Germany, both before the Roman conquest and with the Anglo-Saxons. EthnoAncestry offers a 27-marker Y Chromosome test for $269 (£165) and assigns customers to numerous sub-groups within haplogroups — identifying “Pictish” and “Germanic” as well as indigenous lineages of R1b, for example.

Mark Jobling, of the University of Leicester, another geneticist who has used the Y chromosome to study the histories of populations in Western Europe, says that EthnoAncestry’s work is “interesting”, but that it is too early to make meaningful conclusions about the arrival histories in Britain of most lineages.

Surnames and families

Professor Jobling adds that Y chromosome tests can more safely be used to investigate genealogical relationships — suggesting whether, or how closely, men who share a rare surname are related, for example.
His research indicates that many rare surnames, including Attenborough, had a single founder and carry a characteristic Y chromosome signature. Many amateur genealogists have started DNA projects for specific surnames to establish whether, and how, the families are related. Most studies use one provider, such as Family Tree DNA, which tests 12 markers for $119 (£72), 37 for $169 (£102) or 67 for $268 (£162), with discounts for bulk orders. The tests can only be used to give probabilities. For example, according to a much used model, there is a 50 per cent chance that two men who match on 25 out of 25 markers tested share a common ancestor within seven generations and a 90 per cent chance that they share a common ancestor within 23 generations.

These sort of odds can be used to back up speculation based on old-fashioned paper-based research — not to conjure up names and dates.
Professor Jobling says that tests of about 25 markers are adequate for most family history purposes. Tests of 12 markers are not, because even an exact match could indicate common descent from a man living as many as 40 generations ago.
Examples of other amateur DNA projects include studies of the surnames Warburton and Sainsbury. The former indicates that several founders took the name in the medieval period.

And for the girls

Mitochondrial DNA, which is passed down the female line, offers an alternative means of studying population movements.
Everyone, male and female, belongs to a mitochondrial haplogroup — a clan descended in the female line from a common ancestor. As with Y chromosome haplogroups, these can be linked in a family tree descending from a common African founder.
Less is known about the histories of the various mitochondrial lineages, hence the focus of this article. However, tests are available from the same providers and in a similar price range.

Analysis: More than a numbers game

Learning about the prehistoric journey of my male-line ancestors out of Africa and into Europe via Central Asia was interesting, but initially I was disappointed that there was no consensus on when they would have arrived in Britain.
Nevertheless, I know from written and oral family history that they moved from Lancashire to central Ireland in the 17th century and stayed there until the 20th century — a part of family identity that tests such as these are bound to miss.
I am also aware that the Y chromosome is a small part of my DNA and that, test or no test, my ancestors in all lines, male and female, more than a numbers game it include native Britons, Angles, Saxons and Vikings, as well as people from many other cultures. It would be a shame to identify with only one of them because of a string of numbers.Source (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/consumer_affairs/article6839769.ece)

Good article. Highlighting to readers where they can go to obtain a DNA test and the results they could expect to find, but I'm still wondering why the author thinks the tests would not be able to discern the 300 years his family spent in Ireland.

Liffrea
09-22-2009, 04:14 PM
As one who has had DNA tests and also spent money on genealogical research I would say the later is worth more than the former.

Atlas
09-22-2009, 04:33 PM
It depend... how much ? I could pay eventually to know if I have other ancestry than all I know already... otherwise rather spend my money on vacations or my appartment.

Osweo
09-23-2009, 12:45 AM
Good article. Highlighting to readers where they can go to obtain a DNA test and the results they could expect to find, but I\'m still wondering why the author thinks the tests would not be able to discern the 300 years his family spent in Ireland.
He was talking about the male line in that paragraph, and trusts the marital fidelity of 300 years\' worth of Mrs. Bridges! :D

Lancashire has had a great deal of Irish input in the times up to 1700, though. Goosnargh is a fully Gaelic placename, albeit in Norse word order, for example, dating from the tenth century.

I am mildly curious to find out my haplotypes, but in no rush. It\'ll probably get better and cheaper in a few years\' time.

Psychonaut
09-23-2009, 02:44 AM
As one who has had DNA tests and also spent money on genealogical research I would say the later is worth more than the former.

I agree, BUT I'm still glad to know that I'm a tr00 aR1an 00bermensch. ;)

Mesrine
09-23-2009, 03:11 AM
Even for free, it's not worth it.

Psychonaut
09-23-2009, 03:26 AM
Even for free, it's not worth it.

Of course...because who would ever care to learn where their origins lie. :rolleyes2:

Mesrine
09-23-2009, 04:03 AM
Of course...because who would ever care to learn where their origins lie. :rolleyes2:

Save your money, because I know the answer: the Horn of Africa. :D

Poltergeist
09-23-2009, 07:32 AM
If it were for free, or if I had so much money as not to care about how I spend it, then I would do it out of sheer vain curiosity.

SilverFish
09-23-2009, 08:01 AM
So by taking the Y chromosone, you can only identify your father's father line.


How can you know the dna for your mother's father's line? I would really like to know.

Vulpix
09-23-2009, 08:04 AM
So by taking the Y chromosone, you can only identify your father's father line.


How can you know the dna for your mother's father's line? I would really like to know.

Get a close male relative of hers tested.

Nodens
09-23-2009, 08:08 AM
How can you know the dna for your mother's father's line? I would really like to know.

Test her father, otherwise you can only trace your mother's female ancestors.

Edit: Beaten to the punch.

SilverFish
09-23-2009, 08:09 AM
Not sure if they want to do that...haha.

Any other better way to find out their DNA?

Poltergeist
09-23-2009, 08:11 AM
Save your money, because I know the answer: the Horn of Africa. :D

Really? I didn't know Yorubas were from Somalia.

Nodens
09-23-2009, 08:14 AM
Not sure if they want to do that...haha.

Take some blood when they're not looking.


Any other better way to find out their DNA?

Nope.

Phlegethon
09-23-2009, 08:18 AM
Wouldn't even pay to know my future.

Liffrea
09-23-2009, 01:46 PM
Originally Posted by Psychonaut
I'm still glad to know that I'm a tr00 aR1an 00bermensch.

Well 1/1000+ of you anyway.;)

Tabiti
09-23-2009, 02:27 PM
I think to test my mtDNA when I have enough money, but just for fun, since I have thousand of other male and female ancestors, who effected my whole DNA.

Mesrine
09-24-2009, 08:59 PM
Really? I didn't know Yorubas were from Somalia.

I'm not Yoruba, I'm Peul. But even Peuls' ancestors were immigrants to Western Africa at some point. :D

Absinthe
09-25-2009, 02:30 AM
No need for paying. Even if my body isn't swarthy, my soul is. I don't need some lousy DNA test to tell me how swarthy I am :wink

Phlegethon
09-25-2009, 07:20 AM
All you need is me. I shall remind you of that fact 24/7. ;)

Amarantine
09-25-2009, 07:24 AM
I would like to test all my family members, but it is quite expensive for all of them and I have to wait so long...so btw anybody from you know some labs to do somewhere in Europe (I have just USA info)?

Zyklop
09-25-2009, 08:38 AM
Of course...because who would ever care to learn where their origins lie. :rolleyes2:As already said, investing the money in professional genealogical research tells you much more about your origins than Y-DNA tests that only show where one of your paternal ancestors a few thousand years ago originated. It's a good business idea for extracting money from rootless colonials though.

Loyalist
10-08-2009, 01:51 AM
Ancestral DNA tests are utter wastes of money, and of little consequence to the ethnic picture and family story I am actually trying to piece together by way of genealogical research. Where in Africa my distant paternal ancestors originated before they were Celts or Saxons does not particularly interest me. :rolleyes:

It is often necessary to pay to access additional genealogical records once the free resources available online have been exhausted. I went as far as I could with RootsWeb, Family Search, and a number of Canadian-specific sites, as well as records at local libraries and archives. Fortunately, that only left a few lines unanswered, and for a comparatively small fee Ancestry.com and some UK census records remedied that. I would certainly recommend the latter, but only as a last resort when the plethora of free information is not sufficient.

Goidelic
10-08-2009, 06:40 AM
I have payed and have an account on Ancestry.com that only gets you so far in terms of Irish & Ulster-Scots ancestry, specifically Gaelic Irish :p

The problem with ancestry.com is that it doesn't list the villages and counties your ancestors were born in just the nations, luckily I have been gifted in collecting many death certificates of my ancestors & their siblings and have been fortunate enough to know where my Gaelic Irish ancestors were born in the late 1860's and up till the Irish famine in the early 1820's. I have traced them back to the late 1700's. On my Ulster-Scots side I have traced a lot back to counties & villages in Scotland & Northern Ireland, & a few back to England & one ancestor back in Hessen. There of course very few lines that end in the early 1700's to early 1600's in America that are dead and no records for. I'm contempt with that though. :D

I have tested my Y-Chromosome and am of the R1b Gaelic Irish subclade I forget which one, but my highest results were from Ireland. Now I know officially I'm not adopted, which is impossible given family resemblances :p