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Beorn
09-22-2009, 04:35 PM
NEANDERTHAL man was not the hirsute simpleton history books have been portraying, an independent Sydney scholar believes.

Neanderthal man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal) was a vicious rapist and cannibal – and ugly too.
After years of research in which he scrutinised 800 references, Danny Vendramini has concluded Neanderthals were "apex predators" and were "aggressive, powerful and terrifying carnivores".

For more than 50,000 years they ruled the food chain. Much of their diet consisted of our ancestors.
"Their daily diet was nearly 2kg of meat – and it included human meat," Mr Vendramini said.
The former filmmaker has written Them and Us: How Neanderthal predation created modern humans (Kardoorair Press, $39.95), wherein he promulgates his findings of the way in which "Neanderthal predation" almost wiped out the early human populations of the Mediterranean levant.

Self-taught Mr Vendramini said he was aware that his book could offend some scientists.
"Scientists have taken the view that they were more human-like but I think that is anthropomorphic thinking which sees them as like ourselves and disregards the evidence that they were cannibals," he said.
Bone relics at about eight European sites showed neatly-dissected human bones, cast away among the bones of other fare, he said.
The average Eurasian Neanderthal was about 25 per cent heavier than a human with lots of muscle, barrel chests, "arms like Arnold Schwarzenegger and legs like telegraph posts".
They were about six-times stronger than modern humans.
"They were primates and they would have looked like primates," Mr Vendramini said.
Adapting in ice-age Europe, they required a high-protein diet.

Isotope analysis of Neanderthal bone collagen indicated a diet of 97 per cent meat.
Mr Vendramini said he had to speculate on many of the interactions described in the book as there was no evidence of emotion or psychology. There was evidence, however, of weapons in the form of flint-tipped spears and hunting in packs.
And, they were responsible for reducing the humanoid population to as few as 50 in the Mediterranean levant region.

Cro-Magnon man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cro-Magnon) fought back, killing and also eating Neanderthals and migrating across the world in what Mr Vendramini called "a 20,000km blitzkrieg," and "the first instance of evolution by genocide".
He speculated the traumas of those distant human experiences at the hands of Eurasian Neanderthals underpinned some of the ways in which modern humans have evolved.


Source (http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,26087840-5006301,00.html)

Don't believe a word of it, but interesting theory nonetheless.

The Black Prince
09-22-2009, 10:00 PM
yeah, interesting theory. Ancient trolls searching for human flesh.:P

Anyway bone material from this period is so scarce, and correct dating of the material is very hard which shows in the roughly 10% fault marge. Mathematically it is possible they never met eachother. Otherwise the constant shifts in territory seems to prove they must have met eachother at some occasions. E.g. during the warmer periods Archaic Modern Humans (AMH) moved up north, whereass in later colder periods AMH moved back south again and Neanderthal Man settled as far south as the Middle-East and North-Egypt. However there's no real evidence that they lived in eachothers vicinity.

Anyway it stays interesting material.:)

Octothorpe
09-28-2009, 09:37 PM
The possible sapiens/neaderthalis hybrid skeletons found in the Middle East and in Spain (and elsewhere) bring up an important point--"first rape, then pillage" might be an older rule than we thought . . . :p

The Black Prince
11-02-2009, 06:33 PM
Danny Vendramini (2009). Them and Us: Neanderthal predation and the bottleneck speciation of modern humans (http://www.themandus.org/paper-CA.pdf)

The guy now wrote a paper about it (see source above) and the first three capters of his book are also free for download: http://www.themandus.org/Ebook_3chapters.pdf

Crimson Guard
11-02-2009, 07:50 PM
So they ate eachother to death but the Cro-Magnon had the last bite?LOL

Cannibalism seems quite universal and was practiced by many cultures and peoples, so Neanderthals or Cro-Magnon(modern man) also involved in this arcane practice is likely and no doubt historically proven on some level. However not sure if the above is how it went down though.

But I rather agree with this theory for the most part. Atleast the war between the species part, as it makes sense on a few levels I think. Neanderthals were indeed brutal savages and they were built to be-- but this kinda goes against now as they've been being PCed lately into more modern and human looking to point of turning them into modern day redheads(and possibly why many humans has a dislike for gingers, I kid). Anyhow, it may also explain why no hybrids survived because of war --and that is even they could inter-breed together in the first place.


If Neanderthals or Neanderthal admixture is to be found today in any trace amounts, then it more like be found in places like France, Iberia, or Italy (or some place in the Balkans as well perhaps) since:



Dr. Delson said in an interview that the dates for the artifacts “appeared to be solid” and that southern Iberia “was indeed a region where Neanderthals survived long after modern humans were dominant elsewhere in Europe.”

http://www.neanderthal-man.com/gibraltar.html

But thus far there is no convincing hard evidence of any physical or genetic Neanderthal admixture in Europeans.

The artistic recons vary quite a lot but judge and get your own ideas from them as you will.

La Ferrassie Neanderthal Reconstruction *Same Skull and a recon of it:

http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/images/laferrl.JPG
http://listverse.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/eyzies-musecc81e-la_ferrassie.jpg

Assorted images of Neanderthals:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45926000/jpg/_45926584_neander_kennis_226.jpg
http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00131/pg-12-Neanderthal-r_131591s.jpg
http://wonkywonk.net/images/blog_bryancostanich_com/Images/Neanderthal.jpg
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/departments/hu/groups/EEC/neanderthal.jpg
http://promega.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/477px-neanderthal_child.jpg
http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00043/neanderthal2_43183t.jpg
http://thebeautybrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/neanderthal.jpg
http://listverse.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/adult_male_neanderthal.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e181/Borntobeking/02C2C2136028_42C00.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e181/Borntobeking/Neanderthals.jpg
http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/99/44399-004-525C2112.jpg

http://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/wilma.jpg
http://zipline.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/neanderthal-woman-x.jpg

Allenson
11-02-2009, 08:07 PM
I've wondered before if our tales of trolls, goblins and the like are perhaps very ancient folk memories of the times when both Neanderthal & Cro-Magnon coexisted....?

They must have been very much "the others"....

The Black Prince
11-02-2009, 08:48 PM
I've wondered before if our tales of trolls, goblins and the like are perhaps very ancient folk memories of the times when both Neanderthal & Cro-Magnon coexisted....?

They must have been very much "the others"....
Yes, I have somewhat the same idea about it. Perhaps it is some sort of instinctive or ancestral memory?

The idea itself would be exciting and who knows, perhaps when the world got warmer in the Upper-Paleolithic the European 'cold adapted' Neanderthal found refugee spots up north. And stayed our mind as the 'Other' eventually given way to the Trolls of North-Germanic mythology.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/John_Bauer_1915.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Ett_gammalt_bergtroll.jpg
Trolls painted by J. Bauer, resp. 1915, 1910.

This painting is I think before the first facial reconstructions were made of Neanderthalls. Somehow they do live up very well with modern Neanderthal reconstructions, as seen by the large nose, receding large head and broad muscular bodytype.

Crimson Guard
11-02-2009, 09:13 PM
Yes, I have somewhat the same idea about it. Perhaps it is some sort of instinctive or ancestral memory?

Some kinda deep rooted genetic memory, something held over from time immemorial. ..yeah that could be possible. The Neanderthals died off around 24,000 years ago, which is rather recent in the scheme of things. So its very likely some continued to escape extinction well into the Neolithic Age.

Same thing can go for stories of sea monsters and dragons ect. They couldve been some distant memory of Dinosaurs? Suppose its possible somehow. There is without a no a religious record and significance to such creatures.
But it is certain, that beliefs are hardwired in our brains;

Superstitious Beliefs Cemented Before Birth

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/10/30/paranormal-superstitions-02.html

Genes contribute to religious inclination

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7147

There is mention of dragons, Giants and Nephilim in the Holy Bible, so I suppose we have to accept the possibly.

anonymaus
11-03-2009, 02:31 PM
Neanderthals - the hairy carnivore that ate our ancestors

Neanderthal man was a vicious rapist and cannibal – and ugly too.

I can't be the only one thinking Osweo is about 130,000 years old.

Osweo
11-03-2009, 08:11 PM
I can't be the only one thinking Osweo is about 130,000 years old.

http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/99/44399-004-525C2112.jpghttp://img513.imageshack.us/img513/1135/snens.jpg
:grumpy: