Recent News: IVF goes wrong.

[Rachel]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/22/wrong.embryo.family/index.html

The above link, taken from CNN made me think about our european peservation and what are some of the problems on a cultural level that occur when a mix up like the one in the article occurs.

After you read the article and see the photo of the couple one has to assume from looks alone that the above mentioned couple is of european descent. the IVF while it is a personal problem for her has his sperm and someone elses embryos. So technically the child that would be born would be half european, if indeed we assume that the male provider of the spearm is of european descent.

So my question to the community are these :
1.) Does this pose another threat to the preservation of our people?
2.) from a personal perspective, is an IVF ethical ? or should children be brought into this world naturally ?
3.) what happens to interracial children, do we accept the portion of them that is european or do we not accept them based on their parents choice to marry someone not of their race?


The article does not show a photo of the DNA parents, so we as readers have no idea if the child will be fully connected by blood to the european people or if he will be half european.

The article just made me think.

[Skandi]

1.) Does this pose another threat to the preservation of our people?
No, these mix ups are exceedingly rare, and even if a high percent of IVF were to be mixed up, there are not that many people who use it

2.) from a personal perspective, is an IVF ethical ? or should children be brought into this world naturally ?
I have no problem with IVF so long as it is used to help people with difficulties, not those who simply do not want a father or those who want to hit the headlines, or women who are too old to conceive naturally.

3.) what happens to interracial children, do we accept the portion of them that is european or do we not accept them based on their parents choice to marry someone not of their race?

In this case if both mothers became pregnant I would arrange a swap as soon after birth as possible. If an accident were to occur and the father or mother was messed up. then I think you have to accept the child, it is not their fault after all.

[Gwynyvyr]

This is a heart breaking situation for all concerned. To desperately want a child, then successfully complete IVF and then to be told that there was such a screw-up!
I cannot even imagine what I would do in such a situation.

I do not think artificial means of conception/gestation/etc pose such a great danger to European preservation.
However, I have read accounts of many couples that have gone to India to hire surrogates or have hired women of other racial/ethnic groups to carry their child.
I am a bit *torn* by that.
I, personally, would want someone of the same race and culture to carry my child if I needed a surrogate. I know that some couples chose to go the India route because it is more expedient--less wait time to actually find a surrogate--- and cheaper.
Would it make a difference to you?

Another mix-up I read of a few years ago...I think it was in England--maybe(?)-- a couple where the husband was sterile decided to conceive by choosing a sperm donor through a clinic. Everything was done properly...they chose someone who resembled the husband, same race and ethnic group, etc.
The clinic *dropped the ball* and fertilized the wife with the sperm of a Negro. The couple was white.
The *mistake* was discovered right before or right after the childs birth (I forget). Apparently, someone misread the numbers that identified the donor.
It was too late to abort (if they had wanted that option) and the wife was already heavily emotionally vested in this child, having carried it for all those months and joyfully anticipating the child's birth.
What the hell do you do in that situation?
If you are the husband, do you demand/suggest/encourage your wife to put the infant up for adoption? If you are the wife, do you demand/suggest/encourage your husband to accept the infant as his own?
As I recall, they put the child up for adoption...a heart rending choice, to be sure, but they felt that they could not parent a child that looked so different from them. (Personally, I think that would be my choice as well)

Technology has advanced...but unfortunately, all the mistakes a human being can make will be made in the use of that technology.

[anonymaus]

1.) Does this pose another threat to the preservation of our people?

No.


2.) from a personal perspective, is an IVF ethical ? or should children be brought into this world naturally ?

In what way could such a choice even be considered "right or wrong" so as to be a moral question? As far as "nature" is concerned... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature)


3.) what happens to interracial children, do we accept the portion of them that is european or do we not accept them based on their parents choice to marry someone not of their race?

Accept in what way? What is the alternative: to treat them poorly because of their parents' decisions? To punish them for being born? Nobody asks to be born.

[Sally]

I'll just answer your second question, Rachel:

2.) from a personal perspective, is an IVF ethical ? or should children be brought into this world naturally ?

No, I'm strongly against IVF, and I believe children should be brought into the world "naturally", to use your word. A lot of reproductive technology doesn't show adequate respect for the value of human life and procreation, such as the deliberate destruction of embryos. Also, it is dangerous to dissociate procreation from the conjugal act (Domum vitae).

I understand that the desire for a child is very strong and legitimate, but it shouldn't overshadow the dignity of every human life (not just those of Europeans ;)).

[Rachel]

No.



In what way could such a choice even be considered "right or wrong" so as to be a moral question? As far as "nature" is concerned... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature)


Accept in what way? What is the alternative: to treat them poorly because of their parents' decisions? To punish them for being born? Nobody asks to be born.


When i mean natural i mean by sexual intercourse with little to no technology involved. I don't think all these new reproduction technologies are good for people in general. I am okay with them in the case of women who can't get pregant in a tradtional way. But that is about as far as i am willing to accept it.


I would never treat them bad, but i do think its kinda of a shame and feel really sorry for the child i mean how confused does the child who is an interacial child feel between white groups of people and then african people? I think i would feel very confused as to what group i belonged to.

[Rachel]

And actually i feel like i have to add more to that : when i thought of it in a moral context i meant .. as in playing God(goddess)? Why do people get to choose who get's pregnant and who does not?

Should people who can make these mistakes be allowed to play god when it comes to giving life ?

We are human and we do make mistakes so who is to say that we will do a better job then deity at creating life?

[Skandi]

And actually i feel like i have to add more to that : when i thought of it in a moral context i meant .. as in playing God(goddess)? Why do people get to choose who get's pregnant and who does not?

Should people who can make these mistakes be allowed to play god when it comes to giving life ?

We are human and we do make mistakes so who is to say that we will do a better job then deity at creating life?

This would depend on your idea of God, in my "world" the gods can and do make mistakes, so why should we expect us not too?

[Rachel]

This would depend on your idea of God, in my "world" the gods can and do make mistakes, so why should we expect us not too?

Good point.