do you also think r1b is mainly Celtic haplogroup ?

[RussiaPrussia]

http://oi39.tinypic.com/2qluxvl.jpg

r1b seems to be mainly held by celtic and celtic influenced people

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Celts_in_Europe.png

some people also say its more than being part of celtic people but also other people like basques and western europe as a whole but if you look at history spain for example was ruled by celts too. And even turkey had celt settlers in history that explains that turkey has more haplogroup r1b than greece because not only mixed they with other people with r1b they even had always r1b originally in their own area to begin with.

[SKYNET]

celtic-romance R1b
balto-slavic R1a

[Loki]

Yes. That's why it's common in Nigeria.

[Lábaru]

Iberian from the East Spain and Basques--->70% R1b

[alfieb]

Yes. That's why it's common in Nigeria.

He said mainly, not exclusively. Why the sarcasm?

R1b in Europe is Italo-Celtic, and reflects the close ties between those language families.

[Loki]

He said mainly, not exclusively. Why the sarcasm?


It was a joke :picard2:

[Roy]

It depends from a clad I guess ...

[Lábaru]

It is more correct to say that western Europe is mainly R1b and therefore most Celtic peoples of Western Europe were R1b.

[RussiaPrussia]

Iberian from the East Spain and Basques--->70% R1b

obviously spanish people mixed with each other

[Peikko]

http://oi39.tinypic.com/2qluxvl.jpg

Isn't this map from Stormfront?

You can't match haplogroups with linguistic groups. Germanic would be mix of I1 (which is UP) and R1a and R1b (which are both "Indo-Euro").

[RussiaPrussia]

Isn't this map from Stormfront?

You can't match haplogroups with linguistic groups. Germanic would be mix of I1 (which is UP) and R1a and R1b (which are both "Indo-Euro").

why cant i? it makes sense r1b is mainly celtic and r1a is mainly slavic. Map is from zetaboards1 or something

[Peyrol]

R1b in the italian peninsula

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/d/da/R1bItalia.png

[Lábaru]

obviously spanish people mixed with each other

Maybe that's an explanation, but even if that explains the uniformity of Iberia(70-80%R1b) does not explain why Catalonia or East Andalusia that are traditionally Iberian/Basque areas have more R1B than Portugal, a Celtic land, and why the Basques(They was not Celts in the past), have slightly more R1b than the rest or why Cantabria, a traditional Celt area , has the largest amount of R1a in Iberia.

[MelinusMargos]

Celto-Italic

[alfieb]

R1b in the italian peninsula

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/d/da/R1bItalia.png

And Sardinians, Sicilians and Southern Italians are the least Italic/Celtic, genetically.

[Peikko]

Maybe that's an explanation, but even if that explains the uniformity of Iberia(70-80%R1b) does not explain why Catalonia or East Andalusia that are traditionally Iberian/Basque areas have more R1B than Portugal, a Celtic land, and why the Basques(They was not Celts in the past), have slightly more R1b than the rest.

Furthermore, both Spaniards and Portuguese speak Romance languages. This kinda proves my point, one can't mix linguistics and genetics. It never leads to anywhere, I've seen a billion threads like this in these forums.

[Damião de Góis]

Isn't this map from Stormfront?

You can't match haplogroups with linguistic groups. Germanic would be mix of I1 (which is UP) and R1a and R1b (which are both "Indo-Euro").

Map is from Eupedia.

[Peikko]

Map is from Eupedia.
Thanks. But it still doesn't make any sense. I1-haplo was in Europe long before Germanic languages were formed, so it can't be "Germanic".

[Prince Carlo]

Armenia is 40% R1b.

[Loki]

Thanks. But it still doesn't make any sense. I1-haplo was in Europe long before Germanic languages were formed, so it can't be "Germanic".

And even less can I2 be Slavic. Ridiculous.

[101DT]

All depends on the sub-clades

I consider R1b and R1a to be both Indo-European and non-Indo-European;
given the range and frequencies;

But it all depends on the specific sub-clades;
R1b-U106 is considered Germanic; - for example

[alfieb]

And even less can I2 be Slavic. Ridiculous.
I2 is extremely high in Sardinia.

Then again, Balkan Slavs aren't real Slavs.

[Vesuvian Sky]

It depends from a clad I guess ...



All depends on the sub-clades

I consider R1b and R1a to be both Indo-European and non-Indo-European;
given the range and frequencies;

But it all depends on the specific sub-clades;
R1b-U106 is considered Germanic; - for example

These.

Hands down.

Plus 1.

No plus infinitey.

But no one ever pays attention to the issues surrounding R1b in relation to its clades.:picard2:

[Hevo]

R1B U106 and it's subclades(L48/U198 etc) are considered as Germanic.

[Damião de Góis]

Thanks. But it still doesn't make any sense. I1-haplo was in Europe long before Germanic languages were formed, so it can't be "Germanic".

Yes, i also find that map dubious. All haplogroups are older than the listed ethnicities. I guess they just grouped them according to modern distribution. But that doesn't mean it's accurate.

[Smaug]

Old discussion... The times when everybody thought R1b was a synomym of Celticity are gone. There are many R1b subclades, each associated with a different people. R1b-L21 is Insular Celtic, R1b-S28 is Gaullish-Italic, Rb1-S116 is Continental-Iberian Celtic, R1b-L48 is Germanic, etc...

[101DT]

here are some studies for you retards to look at;

Myres et al (2011) - R1b
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3039512/
Busby et al (2011) - R1b
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2011/08/18/rspb.2011.1044.full
Balaresque et al (2009) - R1b
http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.1000285
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2799514/

and if you dont know;
now you know;

[Lábaru]

Furthermore, both Spaniards and Portuguese speak Romance languages. This kinda proves my point, one can't mix linguistics and genetics. It never leads to anywhere, I've seen a billion threads like this in these forums.

Well Obama and Michael Jordan are a better example of that :D

[Ibericus]

Armenia is 40% R1b.
Armenia R1b is not the "Celt" branch R1b-P312 (S116)

[Geni]

Man say all r1b came from Caucasus..

[Graham]

R1b is older than the Celtic Iron age. It is more Neolithic to Bell Beaker.

You'll notice a couple of Turks in this forum, are of R1b.

[safinator]

The R1b Celtic clade is L-21, not the others.

L-21 reaches the highest frequency in Ireland.

[alfieb]

You'll notice a couple of Turks in this forum, are of R1b.

And?

http://www.celticcultureblog.info/scotland/images/1001_8_5-celtic-culture-europe-map.jpg

"Galatia" was called that for a reason - the natives were Gauls/Celts.

[Geni]

Turcs today ..but 2000 bc ? :noidea:

[Graham]

The R1b Celtic clade is L-21, not the others.

L-21 reaches the highest frequency in Ireland.

Can remember reading that it could be a part of Bell Beaker. But then plenty say Bell-Beaker is Proto-Celtic.
The latest studies show the oldest found Bell Beaker evidence, is to be found in Portugal

Radiocarbon dating now seems to support that the earliest "Maritime" Bell Beaker design style is encountered in Iberia, specifically in the vibrant copper-using communities of the Tagus estuary in Portugal around 2800 - 2700 BC and spread from there to many parts of western Europe.

There is dating for all this R-L21 and other R1b. But can't be bothered looking for it.

[Graham]

Celtic
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Celts_in_III_century_BC.jpg/800px-Celts_in_III_century_BC.jpg
Bell Beaker
http://what-when-how.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/tmp728_thumb1.jpg
Megalithic
http://i.imgur.com/GLMdk.jpg

[alfieb]

Notice that Sicily and Sardinia have among the lowest R1b rates in "Western" Europe, but are included on the culture maps. Except for Celtic.

[Lábaru]

Celtic
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Celts_in_III_century_BC.jpg/800px-Celts_in_III_century_BC.jpg


this map is very wrong for Iberia

[Graham]

R1b R-L21, with updated Basque.
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1b-L21.gif

Map needs the English & Welsh divide updated. West England needs to be lowered.

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/892/lzux.jpg



this map is very wrong for Iberia
Could you show a better image, instead of saying it's wrong. Thank you.. :)

It is most likely incorrect like you say, not hugely. I lazely ripped it off Wikipedia.

[alfieb]

Could you show a better image, instead of saying it's wrong. Thank you.. :)

It is most likely incorrect like you say, not hugely. I lazely ripped it off Wikipedia.
I posted a similar image shortly before you that had all of Northwestern Iberia shaded.

[Damião de Góis]

And?

http://www.celticcultureblog.info/scotland/images/1001_8_5-celtic-culture-europe-map.jpg

"Galatia" was called that for a reason - the natives were Gauls/Celts.

No haplogroup matches the map above. By haplogroup i mean R1b subclade.



Could you show a better image, instead of saying it's wrong. Thank you.. :)

It is most likely incorrect like you say, not hugely. I lazely ripped it off Wikipedia.

I think he meant other tribes were missing, Celtiberi were just one:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Iberia_300BC.svg/727px-Iberia_300BC.svg.png

But i guess that's also true for the rest of the map you posted.

[Graham]

^^
I did post a thread ages ago. With a link that had information like the above. But couldn't find it. Cheers. :)

All I meant was that there is possibly a link, to those who built Stongehenge and other such things, to the same people in Iron age.

[Ice]

R1b is older than the Celtic Iron age. It is more Neolithic to Bell Beaker.

You'll notice a couple of Turks in this forum, are of R1b.

I'm r1b1b2a.

I think it comes from tocharian-oghuz mixing.

[Graham]

Azalea/Ashina's father was another. Her dad is R1b1b2a. :)

[Lábaru]

Could you show a better image, instead of saying it's wrong. Thank you.. :)

.

Of course.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Iberia_300BC.svg/450px-Iberia_300BC.svg.png
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_w42ZhzwnMn8/S8OqKyrXbLI/AAAAAAAAAMo/2skD9Nnn31w/s640/iberos+y+celtas.png
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HiED9LttZXY/TWU_ECvwVDI/AAAAAAAABi4/PfbraMkp2s4/s400/paco-encuentros-IBERIA.jpg
This map is very good.
http://www.jarique.com/images/prerromana1.jpg

these Celts tribes only in Cantabria, is my signature.
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3956/cantabros.png

Galicia, Asturias ect..
http://personales.ya.com/santaolaja/historia/PUEBLOS%20PRERROMANOS1.JPG

[Graham]

Reason I couldn't find the Celtic stuff from Iberia. Was because it was on the temp forum.. :P

http://www4.uwm.edu/celtic/ekeltoi/volumes/vol6/6_4/lorrio_zapatero_6_4.html

Some good stuff here on old celtic Iberia.

--------------------------------------------------
http://www4.uwm.edu/celtic/ekeltoi/volumes/vol6/6_4/images/fig07_300.jpg
Main Celtic place-names in Iberia: toponyms ending in -briga (After Albertos 1990).

http://www4.uwm.edu/celtic/ekeltoi/volumes/vol6/6_4/images/fig08_300.jpg
Some Celtic personal names in Iberia: A, Ambata/-us, Ambatio. B, Camala/-us and related (After Abascal, unpublished).

http://www4.uwm.edu/celtic/ekeltoi/volumes/vol6/6_4/images/fig10_320.jpg
Celtic deity names in the Iberian Peninsula (After Olivares 2002)

[Ice]

Azalea/Ashina's father was another. Her dad is R1b1b2a. :)

Is she also L23 + L49

23andme says r1b1b2a but some other sources says it's R1b1a2a

[Gaijin]

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8364/8307098280_88576165b2_o.jpg

[Peyrol]

In Italy the haplogrup is obviously related with the celtic settlement.

http://klio.uoregon.edu/maps/rr/B380IT.gif

[Geni]

This map is not correct ..messapians was not grek and the capital was Manduria near Taranto(taras)..

[Peyrol]

This map is not correct ..messapians was not grek and the capital was Manduria near Taranto(taras)..

They're green (illyrian) in the map.
Anyway, this is a map of 380 B.C., many messapians were already hellenized.

Here a more ancient map, prior to greek settlement and gaul expansion:

http://www.xtec.cat/~jarrimad/historia/mapas/mapa21italia.jpg

[Not a Cop]

Can anyone explain the situation with Scandos - they got R1a,R1b and I1 in almost equal proportions so as far as i know R1a is assotiated with Corded, I1 with local CMs so what about R1b - Hallstatt's?

[Prince Carlo]

Can anyone explain the situation with Scandos - they got R1a,R1b and I1 in almost equal proportions so as far as i know R1a is assotiated with Corded, I1 with local CMs so what about R1b - Hallstatt's?

Founder effect?


Armenia R1b is not the "Celt" branch R1b-P312 (S116)

It peaks among the Basque. That's hardly celtic.

[rashka]

I suspect it's that I1a, I1c which is the Celtic group.