Uzbekistan: GENETICS of Uzbeks and Tajiks and ethnic Turks Mongoloid and Caucasoid groups.

[ButlerKing]

This is a DNA study of Uzbeks who speak Turkic languages, Uzbeks who speak Indo-European Iranian languages ( Uzbeksized Tajiks ) including other minorities who resides in Uzbekistan such as Tajiks, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Turkmen.

"In the heartland of Eurasia: the multilocus genetic landscape of Central Asian populations"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20823912

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TJCuJVizYSI/AAAAAAAAClY/KT6PkWSIZnM/s1600/centralasianmartinez.jpg
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2010/09/admix.png

FOR DNA

Blue represent European admixture
Green represent Middle eastern admixture
Orange represent Central/South Asia admixture ( around Tajkistan / Afghanistan/ Kashmir )
Red represent east Asian admixture

FOR LINGUISTIC

Purple represents Indo-Iranian languages
Yellow represents Turkic languages




-----------------------------------------


Uzbeks who speak Turkic languages ( 3 groups )

Ethnically Uzbeks who speak Turkic languages only.


East Asian 49.3% + Europe 23.6% + Middle east 2.1% + Central/South Asia 25%

East Asian 46.4% + Europe 23.9% + Middle east 2.4% + Central/South Asia 27.4%

East Asian 28.6% + Europe 27.1% + Middle east 19.2% + Central/South Asia 25%



Uzbeksized Tajiks who speak Turkic and Indo-European languages ( 2 groups )

"Uzbekisation or Uzbekization is the process of something or someone culturally non-Uzbek becoming, or being forced to become, Uzbek, though it is a racial designation. "The term "Uzbekization" is also used to refer to the cultural assimilation of the Tajiks in Uzbekistan. Because of assimilation pressures that began in 1924 with the creation of Uzbek SSR, ethnic Tajiks often chose to identify themselves as Uzbeks in population census forms and preferred to be registered as Uzbek in their passports to avoid leaving the republic for the less developed agricultural and mountainous Tajikistan.[1] While official Uzbek statistics place the total Tajik population in Uzbekistan at about 5%,[2][3] subjective expert estimates suggest that the Tajiks may account for as much as 25%-30% of the total population of the country.[4]


East Asian 18.6% + Europe 31.6% + Middle east 23.6% + Central/South Asia 25.9%

East Asian 18.8% + Europe 16% + Middle east 25.7% + Central/South Asia 39.5%

[gregorius]

FUCKING INTERESTING

[Thelema]

They clean toilets in Russia. Appreciate their work.

[ButlerKing]

Btw it seems some ethnic Kazakhs and Kyrgyz in Uzbekistan have intermarried with other minorities in Uzbekistan which may explain why they have 10-20% less Asian blood than the ones in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan.

" Among Kirgiz men living in Uzbekistan and married to non-Kirgiz women, 9.6% had married Russians, 25.6% Uzbeks, and 34.3% Tatars. Among Kazakh men in Uzbekistan, the structure of mixed marriages appeared as follows: 4.4% married Russians and 25% married Uzbeks.[57] "

[Demhat]

East Asian 18.6% + Europe 31.6% + Middle east 23.6% + Central/South Asia 25.9%

East Asian 18.8% + Europe 16% + Middle east 25.7% + Central/South Asia 39.5%

As many other studies I have seen, they seem to label alot of the Caucasus admixture under European.

[Annihilus]

As many other studies I have seen, they seem to label the Caucasus admixture under European and the "Middle Eastern " genes here are actually Southwest Asian.

From what I know is that Kazakhs have more north euro than say Sicilians, so my guess is middle east is west asian here.

[Demhat]

From what I know is that Kazakhs have more north euro than say Sicilians, so my guess is middle east is west asian here.


Made a slight mistake, no I doubt that it is fully West Asian, rather some West Asian + Southwest Asian. Another portion of West Asian (the North Caucasian part) is under Europe label, while another few percentages (the Gedrosia) is under South-Central Asian label.

actually very similar to DNAtribes label

[ButlerKing]

Turkmen in Uzbekistan ( 1 group )

East Asian 27.2% + Europe 27.1% + Middle east 23.6% + Central/South Asia 22.1%


Tajiks in Uzbekistan ( 6 groups )


East Asian 14.5% + Europe 25% + Middle east 24.8% + Centra/South Asia 35.8%

East Asian 15.8% + Europe 32.4% + Middle east 24.4% + Central/South Asia 27.4%

East Asian 25.1% + Europe 31% + Middle east 21% + Central/South Asia 21.9%

East Asian 27.9% + Europe 29% + Middle east 33.6% + Central/South Asia 7%

East Asian 22.5% + Europe 28% + Middle east 15.8% + Central/South Asia 33.4%



Uzbeks with red hair and blonde hair. I'm guessing this is where European admixture comes although I've seen people who are predominately West Asian with only some European admixture have these traits too

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3105/4554792723_4ab2f2e2e1.jpg
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4046/4520472100_97d8cd5924_z.jpg

[Demhat]

Turkmen in Uzbekistan ( 1 group )

East Asian 27.2% + Europe 27.1% + Middle east 23.6% + Central/South Asia 22.1%


Tajiks in Uzbekistan ( 6 groups )


East Asian 14.5% + Europe 25% + Middle east 24.8% + Centra/South Asia 35.8%

East Asian 15.8% + Europe 32.4% + Middle east 24.4% + Central/South Asia 27.4%

East Asian 25.1% + Europe 31% + Middle east 21% + Central/South Asia 21.9%

East Asian 27.9% + Europe 29% + Middle east 33.6% + Central/South Asia 7%

East Asian 22.5% + Europe 28% + Middle east 15.8% + Central/South Asia 33.4%



Uzbeks with red hair and blonde hair. I'm guessing this is where European admixture comes although I've seen people who are predominately West Asian with only some European admixture have these traits too

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3105/4554792723_4ab2f2e2e1.jpg
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4046/4520472100_97d8cd5924_z.jpg


I have seen people with almost 0% European yet with these kind of Red blondish hair.

[ButlerKing]

Large number of Russian and Persian slaves were also imported to Uzbekistan by nomadic Kazakhs, Nogais, Turkmen. I'm not sure exactly the extend of European and Middle eastern admixture derived from these slaves though. I'm guessing it may have had 3-5% contribution.


Abolished of slavery

The Russian administration liberated the slaves of the Kazakhs in 1859.[29] However, isolated abductions of Russians or Ukrainians by Kazakhs for the slave markets of Central Asia continued until the Tsars' conquest of Khiva and Bukhara in the 1860s.[30] At major markets in Bukhara, Samarkand, Karakul, Karshi and Charju, slaves consisted mainly of Iranians and Russians, and some Kalmuks; they were brought there by Turkmen, Kazakh and Kyrgyz.[31] A notorious slave market for captured Russian and Persian slaves was centred in the Khanate of Khiva from the 17th to the 19th century.[32] During the first half of the 19th century alone, some one million Persians, as well as an unknown number of Russians, were enslaved and transported to Central Asian khanates.[33][34] When the Russian troops took Khiva in 1873 there were 29,300 Persian slaves, captured by Turkoman raiders.[citation needed] According of Josef Wolff (Report of 1843–1845) the population of the Khanate of Bukhara was 1,200,000, of whom 200,000 were Persian slaves.[35]

[ButlerKing]

It's interesting, Tajiks are more North European than Greeks and Central Italians

Dodecad's "North European" autosomal component peaks among Lithuanians at 73.9%. Among IE speaking Tajiks it reaches 19.3% while Greeks have it at 18.3%, Central Italians at 17.3% and South Italians/Sicilians at 11.8-12.2%.

[ButlerKing]

I swear uzbeks from the north look much more mongoloid than 50%. It would be interesting to see the results from the northern area, it's like looking at diluted Kazakhs and Kyrgyz.

http://galenf.com/uzbekistan/uzbek_0091.jpg
http://galenf.com/uzbekistan/uzbek_0079.jpg
http://galenf.com/uzbekistan/uzbek_0093.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Uzbeks
Uzbeksized Tajiks
mixture of Tajiks and Uzbeks


https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/943280_10151572062738819_2146776240_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/941872_10151571246343819_1004791281_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/935762_10151571245433819_102339872_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/941481_10151570828018819_1331907471_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/379675_10151570667188819_1129385864_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/575490_10151570591173819_2131065710_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/401089_10151569628163819_1271279713_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/971196_10151567701488819_105274066_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/968890_10151567701068819_4835396_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/931287_10151567653853819_1424625897_n.jpg

[ButlerKing]

http://www.zakovat.ucoz.ru/albom/festival/7.jpg
http://www.zakovat.ucoz.ru/albom/festival/9.jpg
http://www.zakovat.ucoz.ru/albom/festival/30.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Uzbek kids from Uchkuduk

http://www3.utsidan.se/corax-e/Jeff's%20Photos/uzbekschoolchildren.jpg

As you can see it's closer to Kazakhstan than to Turkmenistan. I wonder if that has anything to do with the way Uzbeks from there look?

http://www.welt-atlas.de/datenbank/karten/karte-5-435.gif

[ABest]

Do they also score South Asian?

[ButlerKing]

Do they also score South Asian?

If by South Asian you mean people like Pakistani/North Indians yes and no. It's Central South Asian component, more like related with people of Tajikistan, Pasthun, Balochi, and Kashmir of North Pakistan. Genetically people of North India/Pakistan are mostly of Central/South Asian however they also have 30-40% South Indian admixture which is why they look the way they do. Dravidians has South Indian at 70-90%. Central Asian and Tajiks lack South Indian admixture while Balochi and Pasthun only have 15-20% of South Indian admixture

[ABest]

If by South Asian you mean people like Pakistani/North Indians yes and no. It's Central South Asian component, more like related with people of Tajikistan, Pasthun, Balochi, and Kashmir of North Pakistan. Genetically people of North India/Pakistan are mostly of Central/South Asian however they also have 30-40% South Indian admixture which is why they look the way they. Dravidians has South Indian at 70-90%. Central Asian and Tajiks lack South Indian admixture while Balochi and Pasthun only have 15-20% of South Indian admixture

I see.

So only part of their South Asian scores is actually Dravindian-like.

Also, how much South Asian do they typically score?

[ButlerKing]

I see.

So only part of their South Asian scores are actually Dravindian-like.

Also, how much South Asian do they typically score?

Part of Pakistani/North Indians have Dravidian like DNA but among Central Asians this is non-existant components.

The best representative of Central/South Asian components in Turkic are from people who look these

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/ID1drtYdZ50/hqdefault.jpg
http://www.joshuaproject.net/profiles/photos/p15034.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1f/BalochPeople.jpg

[ABest]

Part of Pakistani/North Indians have Dravidian like DNA but among Central Asians this is non-existant components.

The best representative of Central/South Asian components in Turkic are from people who look these


Ah, I see. I think it's obvious that North Indians, Pakistanis and Afghans have Dravindian-like admixture.

Actually, I just checked it out and Uzbeks typically score almost 10% South Asian. Are you sure they are free of any actual Indian influence?

[gregorius]

ARMENIA STRONK!!!! ^^

[ButlerKing]

Well, Uzbeks only score about 7% South Asian, so I doubt that it would influence their appearance significantly.

Yeah 7% is nothing. Not to mention Pasthun themselves have 20-26% South Asian and look much more closer to Persians. So if another west Asian Caucasoid mixed with Pasthun it would have only 10-13% South Asian DNA.

Besides the average Pasthun/Afghan look barely South Asian influence.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Pashtun_people.jpg

[ABest]

Yeah 7% is nothing. Not to mention Pasthun themselves have 20-26% South Asian and look much more closer to Persians. So if another west Asian Caucasoid mixed with Pasthun it would have only 10-13% South Asian DNA.

Besides the average Pasthun/Afghan look barely South Asian influence.

Actually, Uzbeks score over 8% South Asian, that was a typo, sorry (I edited my previous post).

But yeah, even if they score near 10% South Asian that wouldn't impact their appearance at all. Overall, they look Central Asian, of course. Their Indian element is low.

[ButlerKing]

I was posting dodecad data. Dodecad Link. (https://docs.google.com/a/umich.edu/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadDUyeEtjNnBmY09EbnowN3M3UWRyN nc&authkey=COCa89AJ&hl=en_US&authkey=COCa89AJ#gid=0)

They score 8.2% South Asian over there.

This 8.2% South Asian in Uzbeks could have come from the gypsies. If you didn't know gypsies and North Indian slaves were imported to Uzbekistan during their conquest of Middle east, Caucasus, South Asia. The 8.2% South Asian in Uzbeks properly included both west Asian and South Indian admixture like in pakistani/North Indian but it is the South Indian admixture that matters most because that is the admixture that gives you a dravidian influence look.

[ABest]

This 8.2% South Asian in Uzbeks could have come from the gypsies. If you didn't know gypsies and North Indian slaves were imported to Uzbekistan during their conquest of Middle east, Caucasus, South Asia. The 8.2% South Asian in Uzbeks properly included both west Asian and South Indian admixture like in pakistani/North Indian but it is the South Indian admixture that matters most because that is the admixture that gives you a dravidian influence look.

Yup, that could be a potential source for that score. I'd say that some gene flow has always been occurring between those regions. But you are right, maybe part of the 8.2% South Asian score is more recent.

Anyway, 8.2% South Asian is not enough to make Uzbeks look like Pakistanis. They do look like Central Asians overall.

[ButlerKing]

Yup, that could be a potential source for that score. I'd say that some gene flow has always been occurring between those regions. But you are right, maybe part of the 8.2% South Asian score is more recent.

Anyway, 8.2% South Asian is not enough to make Uzbeks look like Pakistanis. They do look like Central Asians overall.

It seems only Uzbeks have the highest. The truth is North Indian/ Pakistani themselves are slightly closer to somewhat closer West Asian people if you mix with another Persian or Afghan he may look either west Asian or just another light skinned bollywood actor.

This could be the explanation

Timur invasion of Dehli India


Timurlane: Is a ethnic Uzbek partly descent from Mongol. He is predominately Mongoloid.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/Timur_reconstruction01.jpg/170px-Timur_reconstruction01.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/dekzer.gif


The alleged "Memoirs" of Timur, or Tuzk-e-Taimuri, relate the sack of Delhi:[5][29][34][35]

"On that day, Thursday, and all the night of Friday, nearly 15,000 Turks were engaged in slaying, plundering, and destroying. When morning broke on the Friday, all my army, no longer under control, went off to the city and thought of nothing but killing, plundering, and making prisoners. All that day the sack was general. The following day, Saturday, the 17th, all passed in the same way, and the spoil was so great that each man secured from fifty to a hundred prisoners, men, women, and children. There was no man who took less than twenty. The other booty was immense in rubies, diamonds, garnets, pearls, and other gems; jewels of gold and silver; ashrafís, tankas of gold and silver of the celebrated 'Aláí coinage; vessels of gold and silver; and brocades and silks of great value. Gold and silver ornaments of the Hindu women were obtained in such quantities as to exceed all account. Excepting the quarter of the saiyids, the 'ulamá, and the other Musulmáns, the whole city was sacked. The pen of fate had written down this destiny for the people of this city. Although I was desirous of sparing them I could not succeed, for it was the will of Allah that this calamity should fall upon the city."

[ButlerKing]

So basically after they sacked Dehli and killed 100,000 Hindus. They made slavery out of North Indians, no man took less than 20 Hindu slave and there was 15,000 Uzbek Turks.

[ABest]

Also, check out these scores:

Tajiks: 17.4% South Asian
Turkmens: 13.3% South Asian

These scores show an obvious South Asian affinity in Central Asia. Of course, these scores are not that high, but they do show a relatedness to Indians. They also explain why Indians cluster between Central and East Asians, if I remember correctly.

[Hayalet]

ButlerKing, each and every single one of your posts makes me cringe.

[ButlerKing]

If the number is true, 300,000 + 500,000 Hindu slaves could have been made by Timur. Surely a portion would have been imported to Uzbekistan.

Than you have about 11,362 gypsies in Uzbekistan.

Gypsy Uzbek

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/19/98667747_c66a92e140_z.jpg?zz=1

[ButlerKing]

Also, check out these scores:

Tajiks: 17.4% South Asian
Turkmens: 13.3% South Asian

These scores show an obvious South Asian affinity in Central Asia. Of course, these scores are not that high, but they do show a relatedness to Indians. They also explain why Indians cluster between Central and East Asians, if I remember correctly.

Well that is surprising, now the question is how much of it's actually South Indian admixture?
I understand it says south Asian but South Asians are of two components ( either Iranic or South Indian) So until that sorted it let's not think it has anything to do with Pakis or Indians.

And in studies of Turkmen there is west Asian, European, Iranic admixture not South Indian admixture.

http://i45.tinypic.com/112c4go.png
http://i46.tinypic.com/2nsqvbt.png

[ButlerKing]

ButlerKing, each and every single one of your posts makes me cringe.

Why do you say that? I'm posting hardcore genetic facts.

[ButlerKing]

Also, check out these scores:

Tajiks: 17.4% South Asian
Turkmens: 13.3% South Asian

These scores show an obvious South Asian affinity in Central Asia. Of course, these scores are not that high, but they do show a relatedness to Indians. They also explain why Indians cluster between Central and East Asians, if I remember correctly.


Take a look at this chart. This is exactly why I don't think it has relations with Indians because if it did than South Indian should at least take 15-20% of the components in Uzbeks.

The Green component is South Asian but it's in many middle east and Armenians groups and is high among Balochi, Pastun, Burusho, Brahui who like in Kashmir or Afghanistan.

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/3720/behar2010k10.png

[ABest]

And in studies of Turkmen there is west Asian, European, Iranic admixture not South Indian admixture.

Well, Iranians score 10.7% South Asian as well.

Also, the South Asian component in Dodecad is specifically about the Indian subcontinent, as it peaks in India (81.6%).

[ABest]

Take a look at this chart. This is exactly why I don't think it has relations with Indians because if it did than South Indian should at least take 15-20% of the components in Uzbeks.

The Green component is South Asian but it's in many middle east and Armenians groups and is high among Balochi, Pastun, Burusho, Brahui who like in Kashmir or Afghanistan.

Yeah, I've seen that graph before. But you can see that there is a continuum in the central Asian and South Asian components, which explain the admixture levels at Dodecad. It also makes sense geographically and historically.

[ButlerKing]

Well, Iranians score 10.7% South Asian as well.

Also, the South Asian component in Dodecad is specifically about the Indian subcontinent, as it peaks in India (81.6%).

In which particular group though? are you sure it's not from the Jammu/Kashmir part of India? the group there looks different to North Indians/Pakistani.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040322/jk1.jpg
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2180/3530863320_cd70cc41b3_z.jpg?zz=1

[ButlerKing]

The Kashmiri people are the only ethnic group that looks non-dravidian influence.

http://www.cgpi.org/sites/default/files/images/0100817-kashmir_pro-2.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/02/05/india.kashmir.protest/t1larg.kashmir.protest.gi.jpg

[ABest]

In which particular group though? are you sure it's not from the Jammu/Kashmir part of India? the group there looks different to North Indians/Pakistani.

It peaks in Kannadi, which is in Southern India (Palakkad district). So that means that the South Asian component in dodecad clearly refers to the Indian subcontinent.

[ButlerKing]

It peaks in Kannadi, which is in Southern India (Palakkad district). So that means that the South Asian component in dodecad clearly refers to the Indian subcontinent.

That don't make sense to me. All the South Indians are predominately South Indian DNA. How could South Asian components in Central Asians be related with Indians and have no south Indian DNA admixture?

[ButlerKing]

Like seriously from these people? this is the Palakkad district

http://www.skooldays.in/images/skooldays_banner2.jpg

[ABest]

That don't make sense to me. All the South Indians are predominately South Indian DNA. How could South Asian components in Central Asians be related with Indians and have no south Indian DNA admixture?

Well, I don't really know why they score over 10% South Asian. It's probably because there is a South Asian element in Central Asia.

Also, in the graphs that you posted before, there was an overlapping in the South Asian and Central Asian components (look at the light and dark green lines that peak in South Asians and are also present in Central Asians).

So Central Asians do have South Asian DNA.

[ButlerKing]

Well, I don't really know why they score over 10% South Asian. It's probably because there is a South Asian element in Central Asia.

Also, in the graphs that you posted before, there was an overlapping in the South Asian and Central Asian components (look at the light and dark green lines that peak in South Asians and are also present in Central Asians).

So Central Asians do have South Asian DNA.

I'm not sure what you're talking about? dark green is insignificant in Central Asia is only significant in South Asians and Afghan/Pasthun. These are Uzbeks, Hazara, Uyghurs with their non-mongoloid admixture form and even than their dark green DNA is still tiny. Hazara have more than 10% South Indian admixture because like I said they mixed with both Pasthun and ethnic Tajiks in Afghanistan rather than Central Asians.

http://s23.postimg.org/3p9wo524b/2b9ugn_1.png

[ABest]

I'm not sure what you're talking about? dark green is insignificant in Central Asia is only significant in South Asians and Afghan/Pasthun. These are Uzbeks, Hazara, Uyghurs with their non-mongoloid admixture form and than their dark green DNA is still tiny.

They are clearly not that tiny, as you can see. They are about 10% of their total, which aligns with their Dodecad South Asian scores.

Actually, the graphs that you posted are by Behar and the Dodecad scores for Central Asians are actually based on Behar, so I'm right! :p

[ButlerKing]

They are clearly not that tiny, as you can see. They are about 10% of their total, which aligns with their Dodecad South Asian scores.

Actually, the graphs that you posted are by Behar and the Dodecad scores for Central Asians are actually based on Behar, so I'm right! :p

No, only Hazara have more 5-15% because because they are mixture of Mongolian invaders , Pasthun, Tajiks. It's no coincidence that only Hazara shows most South Indian admixture out of the groups because their caucasoid components are from middle east.

http://sadani.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/hazara2.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_sgQ2xydYQVY/SwVeEx0UxCI/AAAAAAAAAGg/5mqrc_fNiOA/s400/30730660.AfghanistanHazaraBoys.jpg
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/image/4589116-3x2-340x227.jpg

[ABest]

No, only Hazara have more 5-15% because because they are mixture of Mongolian invaders , Pasthun, Tajiks. It's no coincidence that only Hazara shows most South Indian admixture out of the groups because their caucasoid components are from middle east.

No, they do score 10% or more, now I'm sure. The graph that you posted before is by Behar:

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/3720/behar2010k10.png

The Dodecad scores that I posted are all based on Behar:

Uzbeks: 8.2% South Asian
Uygur: 8.4% South Asian
Iranians: 10.7% South Asian
Turkmens: 13.3% South Asian
Tajiks: 17.4% South Asian

So your data was exactly the same as mine. You were just misreading that graph, because it actually does show South Asian admixture in Central Asians.

[ButlerKing]

The Dodecad scores that I posted are all based on Behar:

Uzbeks: 8.2% South Asian
Uygur: 8.4% South Asian
Iranians: 10.7% South Asian
Turkmens: 13.3% South Asian
Tajiks: 17.4% South Asian

So your data was exactly the same as mine. You were just misreading that graph, because it actually does show South Asian admixture in Central Asians.

I wouldn't say same, studies varies.

South Asian have two components.

[ABest]

I wouldn't say same, studies varies.

It's exactly the same data, converted from Behar's graph into Dienekes's Dodecad components.

[ButlerKing]

It seems Central South Asian peaks 100% in Kalash, sorry you lose.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6Hzs-1W_Qwg/TI3fLQVZWXI/AAAAAAAAABI/nBlQhl9BHtE/s1600/Li2008.png

[ButlerKing]

I'm sure you're well aware Kalash live in Pakistan which is part of the Indian subcontinent

http://cdn.lightgalleries.net/4bd5ec017e817/images/kalash_jh_43-2.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrms616DS61r1qrlfo1_1280.jpg

[ABest]

It seems Central South Asian peaks 100% in Kalash, sorry you lose.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6Hzs-1W_Qwg/TI3fLQVZWXI/AAAAAAAAABI/nBlQhl9BHtE/s1600/Li2008.png

Kalash people still score 40.1% South Asian though. What's you point?

And I told you that Behar's and Dodecad's South Asian component peaks in South India.

[ButlerKing]

Kalash people still score 40.1% South Asian though. What's you point?

And I told you that Behar's and Dodecad's South Asian component peaks in South India.

But you're forgetting South Asian is not exclusive to only South Indian.

I seriously doubt the 40.1% South Asian admixture in Kalash are South Indian. How the hell can it be people from South India and yet look more whiter than people from than Armenia or Georgia?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4107/4847453322_178c29beca.jpg
http://viola.bz/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/0_a94e5_b96a92d5_XL.jpg
http://lilwizz.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/kalash3.jpg

[ButlerKing]

See what I mean? there is no way in hell the component of South Asian in Kalash are from South Indian otherwise you expect them to look more like Paki.

http://sultantipu.webs.com/kalash2.jpg
http://cdn.lightgalleries.net/4bd5ec017e817/images/kalash_jh_18-2.jpg
http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/22070/kalash_01t.jpg
http://article4ever.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/kalash_children_jpg.jpg
http://unsafeharbour.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/young-kalash-girl-3.jpg?w=375

[ABest]

But you're forgetting South Asian is not exclusive to only South Indian.

I seriously doubt the 40.1% South Asian admixture in Kalash are South Indian. How the hell can it be people from South India and yet look more whiter than people from than Armenia or Georgia?

Well, the Kalash are still almost 43% West Asian, which does explain the lighter look of those atypical individuals.

The Kalash still have many very dark types like the following:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3148/2866241165_3b44caf4ea_m.jpg

Which makes sense, since they are 40% South Asian.

Also, keep in mind that when one googles "Kalash people" only their light types come up, because they are so unique in that region. They still have many very dark types.

[ButlerKing]

If that's your logic Paki's should look like Kalash aswell. I advice you to watch the videos. The pakistani/Indian look is a very minority and even when they do look like it is still like a light skin paki like the women you posted.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgqc10_pyWQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D-zOAwzi1M

[ButlerKing]

Even dark hair ones still look more caucasian than middle eastern people.

http://img.allvoices.com/thumbs/event/609/480/55365630-kalash-dance.jpg
http://i1.tribune.com.pk/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/211969-KalashPeoplePHOTOFAZALKHALIQ-1310930671-247-640x480.jpg

[ABest]

I know that they are lighter than the Indian mean (obviously), but genetically that makes sense, since they are half West Asian and half South Asian. So they have some darker types (albeit not as dark as a dark Indian) and some lighter types. But on average they are not light, even if they are lighter than even Pakistanis. And, no, they would never fit in the Caucasus.

[ButlerKing]

I know that they are lighter than the Indian mean (obviously), but genetically that makes sense, since they are half West Asian and half South Asian. So they have some darker types (albeit not as dark as a dark Indian) and some lighter types. But on average they are not light, even if they are lighter than even Pakistanis. And, no, they would never fit in the Caucasus.

Well the problem with you is you keep claiming South Asian components are from South India which is not true because like I said many times there are two types of such component. Maybe Kalash are mixture of pure West Asian Aryan and light skin North Indian or whatever.

No way in hell they are mixture of half West Asian and half South Indian like Sindhi ( 60% west Asian 40% South Indian )

http://static3.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/1600-6/photos/1356103686-a-large-number-of-people-attend-sindhi-cap-day-at-hyderabad_1688426.jpg

[ButlerKing]

See even the Rajput who are 38% South Asian + 62% West Asian look more less white you're 40.1% South Asian Kalash.

http://f1.pepst.com/c/F9A18F/134185/ssc3/home/022/saurabh.1513/albums/vidya_balan_09_crazzyprincess.mix69.net.jpg_480_48 0_0_64000_0_1_0.jpg
http://www.bolegaindia.com/images/gossips/ratan_rajpoot1107_post_1320645572.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QRcg4YT_tag/UOhzlYnpsuI/AAAAAAAAFgo/zy5w7fZJPsg/s320/Sushant+singh+rajput+from+Pavitra+Rishta+2.JPG

[ABest]

Well the problem with you is you keep claiming South Asian components are from South India which is not true because like I said many times there are two types of such component. Maybe Kalash are mixture of pure West Asian Aryan and light skin North Indian or whatever.

Wait, I didn't say that at all. What I said was that the South Asian component refers to genes prevalent in the Indian subcontinent. I did not imply that those genes are exclusively Dravidian-like, I was just arguing that they are prevalent in India. India is very mixed genetically at the end of the day, as you know.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. So, yes, the Kalash people are probably the lighter strains of North Indians combined with a heavy West Asian element. Of course they do not look predominantly Dravidian! :p

[ButlerKing]

Wait, I didn't say that at all. What I said was that the South Asian component refers to genes prevalent in the Indian subcontinent. I did not imply that those genes are exclusively Dravidian-like, I was just arguing that they are prevalent in India. India is very mixed genetically at the end of the day, as you know.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. So, yes, the Kalash people are probably the lighter strains of North Indians combined with a heavy West Asian element. Of course they do not look predominantly Dravindian! :p

Well you did say that it peaked 81% at some south India group called Kinadi ( spelling? ).

Well than, so you agree that the South Asian admixture in Turkic and Tajiks Central Asians have nothing to do with Indian/Paki people?

[ABest]

Well you did say it peaked 81% at some Kinadi ( spelling? ).

Well than, so you agree that the South Indian admixture in Turkic and Tajiks Central Asians have nothing to do with Indian/Paki people?

I said that it peaks there to signify that the South Asian component refers to India and not to any other place.

As for the South Asian element of Central Asians, I have to say that it is weak to begin with and that even though it originates from the Indian subcontinent it is only partially Dravidian in nature, as you said.

So, yes, Central Asians and Pakistanis are indeed different people, with a weak common link.

[ButlerKing]

I said that it peaks there to signify that the South Asian component refers to India and not to any other place.

As for the South Asian element of Central Asians, I have to say that it is weak to begin with and that even though it originates from the Indian subcontinent it is only partially Dravidian in nature, as you said.

So, yes, Central Asians and Pakistanis are indeed different people, with a weak common link.

I know it's weak but regardless I'm against the idea that you still think those 8.2% to 14.7% South Asian in Uzbek and Tajiks came from people who look like this

http://www.instablogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/delhi-people-from-bihar-up_26.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Let me just make it clear for the last time. SOUTH INDIAN ADMIXTURE is close to non-existant.

North Indians/ Pakis haveit from 38 - 50%
Pasthuns have it from 20 - 26%
Balochi have it from 10-15%

However for Tajiks and modern Uzbeks Turks it is 1-3%. It may have been 2-5% in the past but that has been diluted by partially interbreeding with Turkic/Mongols and I suspect the people who brought South Indian DNA to Central Asians would have look like Kashmiri with 7-11% South Indian DNA.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/429d9ba9319d38e11a51b8fb5128d72f/tumblr_mg5il0D12B1rka6ndo1_500.png

[ABest]

I know it's weak but regardless I'm against the idea you think those 8.2% to 14.7% South Asian in Uzbek and Tajiks came from people who look like this

http://www.instablogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/delhi-people-from-bihar-up_26.jpg

The connection is only genetic, not phenotypical, so you are right.

At the end of the day, Indians cluster between Central and East Asians for a reason.

[ABest]

Let me just make it clear for the last time. SOUTH INDIAN ADMIXTURE is close to non-existant.

North Indians/ Pakis haveit from 38 - 50%
Pasthuns have it from 20 - 26%
Balochi have it from 10-15%

However for Tajiks and modern Uzbeks Turks it is 1-3%. It may have been 2-5% in the past but that has been diluted by partially interbreeding with Turkic/Mongols.

I agree, the Dravidian element is low in Central Asia, of course. They just have South Asian admixture, which includes Dravidian and Caucasoid elements (among others) at varying degrees.

[ButlerKing]

The connection is only genetic, not phenotypical, so you are right.

At the end of the day, Indians cluster between Central and East Asians for a reason.

Indians like dravidians do cluster with actual East Asian people but it's not really East Asian as in Tawanese/Bhutanese/Chinese/Korean/Japanese.

[ABest]

Indians do cluster with actual East Asian people but it's not really East Asian as in Tawanese/Bhutanese/Chinese/Korean/Japanese.

Yes, I know.

[ButlerKing]

WOW! it's no joke that Uzbeks from the North are so much more Mongoloid. I'm guessing they from 50-60% Mongoloid.

http://www.unicef.org/ceecis/Picture1.jpg
http://www.eurasianet.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery/061110_0.jpg

[ButlerKing]

http://www.thecandytrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/women-of-moynaq-uzbekistan.jpg

[Demhat]

Do they also score South Asian?


Yes, they do but most of the "South Asian" among Tajiks-Uzbeks and Turkmens in Dodecad is actually a "Indus Valley" NorthIndian- Pakistani-Afghan-Tajik-Uzbek component. the further South you go, the South Asian transforms more and more into South Indian like type.

[Demhat]

I was posting dodecad data. Dodecad Link. (https://docs.google.com/a/umich.edu/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadDUyeEtjNnBmY09EbnowN3M3UWRyN nc&authkey=COCa89AJ&hl=en_US&authkey=COCa89AJ#gid=0)

They score 8.2% South Asian over there.


Dodecad v3 is old and broken, so that it lists alot of West-Central Asian genes under South Asian. Use the globe13 calculator. The South Asian there is much more authentic and basically "South-Central Asian.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadF9CLUJnTUdSbkVJaDR2UkRtUE9ka UE#gid=0

[Demhat]

Well, Iranians score 10.7% South Asian as well.

Also, the South Asian component in Dodecad is specifically about the Indian subcontinent, as it peaks in India (81.6%).

It isn't if you followed Dienekes blog you would have known that the South Asian component is India/Pakistan centric in v3, yet it lists two entirely different but present genes under the term, the reason why it is broken and was replaced by other calculators. ANI (Ancestral North Indian) and Asi ( ancestral South Indian). ANI is merely a component composed of any West Eurasian like genes found in India. Alot of it is actually West-Central Asian and even some North European.

And the reason why the South Asian in Dodecad v3 peaks in South India, is because they share alot of ASI like component and not because they share alot of ANI which is prevalent part among Tajiks, Uzbeks, Iranians etc.

[ABest]

I know that and I did not imply that all of the South Asian scores are Dravidian-like. It's obvious that the South Asian score in Dodecad v3 simply includes genes prevalent in the Indian subcontinent, regardless of their origin.

Also, keep in mind that the scores that I posted were actually based on Behar's data anyway.

[Sky earth]

Uzbeks are a colorful mixture between Iranians, Turkics and Mongols. I find it interesting that Central Asia got predominantly Turkic in the end because it's actually the higher developed culture that assimilates more archaic societies. In the case of Iranians and Turks it was the opposite because the Turkic nomads could assimilate the sedentary Iranian population very well though the Turks who got sedentary took the culture of Iranians. That's also the reason why there are tension between the Kyrgyz with their traditional Turko-nomadic culture and the sedentary Uzbeks with their Perso-islamic culture.

[Demhat]

I know that and I did not imply that all of the South Asian scores are Dravidian-like. It's obvious that the South Asian score in Dodecad v3 simply includes genes prevalent in the Indian subcontinent, regardless of their origin.

Also, keep in mind that the scores that I posted were actually based on Behar's data anyway.

Ok but why did you question that most of the South Asian in Uzbeks, Tajiks and Iranians is of West-Central Asian type if you already know that?

for example from the 10% South Asian among Iranians in v3 actually 3% are West Asian, 4% of South- Central Asian and 3% of South Indian type.

The link and Scores you posted were actually based on Dodecad v3 if I am not mistaken.

[Demhat]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/429d9ba9319d38e11a51b8fb5128d72f/tumblr_mg5il0D12B1rka6ndo1_500.png

That kids, both of them if you told me they are Kurdish I wouldn't have doubt it

[Visitor_22]

I have seen some uzbeks who look dark and indian from Bollywood films but never kazakhs.

[ButlerKing]

I have seen some uzbeks who look dark and indian from Bollywood films but never kazakhs.

Timur enslaved 300,000 Hindu slaves back to Central Asia

[ButlerKing]

I have seen some uzbeks who look dark and indian from Bollywood films but never kazakhs.

I've seen a lot of Kurdish, Arabs who are darker than Indians. You must be seriously because over 90% of Bollywood stars are lighter than even Europeans.

[Lucas]

You must be seriously because over 90% of Bollywood stars are lighter than even Europeans.

WHAT???????? Do you know what is light in movie and make-up?

[Seya]

WOW! it's no joke that Uzbeks from the North are so much more Mongoloid. I'm guessing they from 50-60% Mongoloid.

http://www.unicef.org/ceecis/Picture1.jpg
http://www.eurasianet.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery/061110_0.jpg
in north Uzbekistan are living a lot of kazakh ethnics..those were their lands

ps: the people from your first pic don't look kazakh tho

[Pausanias]

In other words: Slavo-mongolians.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/30/43/0b/30430b9a76d4e97bf27defb8cab4631e.jpg

[ariel]

In other words: Slavo-mongolians.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/30/43/0b/30430b9a76d4e97bf27defb8cab4631e.jpg

She maybe ethnic russian who married to uzbek...

[Not a Cop]

She maybe ethnic russian who married to uzbek...

Nah, her facial features are very Uzbek, not russian, light features are extremly rare among Uzbeks, but happen from time to time, i've worked with a lot of them and seen a dozen or so individuals with light eyes, one was even blondish.

[War Chef]

They clean toilets in Russia. Appreciate their work.

bitch you wanna get gang-raped?

[Grab the Gauge]

WOW! it's no joke that Uzbeks from the North are so much more Mongoloid. I'm guessing they from 50-60% Mongoloid.

http://www.unicef.org/ceecis/Picture1.jpg


Neither adults nor the child in the middle look Mongoloid. If this is as "Mongoloid as it gets" in Uzbekistan, I would expect southern Uzbeks to look either entirey European or entirely South Asian. The father in particular could easily pass for French or Cuban American, the female looks more Mexican or South Asian.

[Lucas]

Uzbek are mix. But with Caucasoid element predominant. Soviet anthropologists considered them to be part of Pamiro-Ferganian race which was considered generally Caucasoid with minor Mongoloid input (north-south cline) in various proportions. But sometimes without any Mongoloid admixture.

Mongololian fold is usually more clearly expressed among children. Mybe in adulthood those children in the front will be looking more Caucasoid also.

But according to autosomal genetics they always have some East-Asian / Siberian influence. If there is any Uzbek gedmatch kit without it?

[Seya]

In other words: Slavo-mongolians.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/30/43/0b/30430b9a76d4e97bf27defb8cab4631e.jpg

where do u see molgolian here? there are other ethnicities living in uzbekistan. they are probably afghans or tajiks. ethnic uzbeks don't looks like that

[Pahli]

where do u see molgolian here? there are other ethnicities living in uzbekistan. they are probably afghans or tajiks. ethnic uzbeks don't looks like that

Agreed, she looks too Caucasoid, either Tajik or mixed Uzbek/Russian

[Seya]

Agreed, she looks too Caucasoid, either Tajik or mixed Uzbek/Russian

surprisingly she doesn't look Uzbek/Russian mix. i'll post here some Uzbek/Russian people and some pure Uzbek ethnics that i know personally :)

Uzbek:
http://i.imgur.com/1HOoJXd.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LoR2EXD.jpg
the majority of the people in the back are uzbek but not all of them tho

http://i.imgur.com/HU2ppJ5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fVRHHWf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/liMRuXq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qM1Rkcp.jpg

now russ/uzbek
http://i.imgur.com/HgByDsK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/S3kZHY2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/L0jWFqa.jpg

[SardiniaAtlantis]

I once had KFC in Uzbekistan, it was an interesting experience because instead of Kentucky They called it Khazak Fried Chicken, I thought it was a mistake, but when I asked they said nobody knows Kentucky around here.