Is racism and discrimination always wrong?

[Alenka]

What do you think?

[YeshAtid]

Depends

[Alenka]

Depends
Elaborate pls.

[Loki]

Yes. Why wouldn't it be?

[Smeagol]

No. America was a much better country when the blacks were segregated. For other races, yes it is wrong.

[MelinusMargos]

It is a natural reaction of the organism to the possibility of genetic contamination from external races, neither wrong nor correct. Pratical and defensive i'd say. It's part of everyone of us, like it or not. Still I think that racism can be positive, I don't think being separated implies hate and violent competition, diversity can show hidden and spectacular faces of humanity, so why should we deny this diversity? We should deny destroying this diversity. Obviously this applies as to whites as to blacks as to yellows as to chimpanzee as to dolphins. Or is WWF only thrown out when confortable? Can a human race be not deserve to preserve it's uniqueness?
I think that the elimination of a race is comparable to the elimination of an element from an alimentar chain or of a worker from an assembly chain. Man, gear, animal, plant... it works all the same. Nature always proved to be the most correct answer to all problems, every time that we compete with nature we just damage it and our moral and phisical integrity. Those who try to eliminate this natural sentiments are either brainwashed or not enough intelligent to explain rationally the meaning of their instincts... or at least they can't accept what they are and fear some other race, hence they're paranoid or complexed.

[Sikeliot]

Systematic racism and discrimination (i.e. in the laws, and the structure of society) -- yes.

On the other hand, if my house had been robbed at gunpoint 4 times and the perpetrator was of the same race every time, I'd be wary of people of said race due to fear of my life, and I think in an extreme case like that it'd be justified.

[arcticwolf]

It's very simple, you people over think and over intellectualize. Anything that your common sense or self preservation tell you it's against your interests, you need to be aware of. Fuck the bullshit coming from brain dead idiots, listen to your instincts, and don't let BS guide you, if you do you will get hurt.

It's that simple. Theory is nice and makes morons feel good, your common sense and self preservation instincts are there to protect you, they will never let you down if you pay attention.

All man made BS is just that bullshit. Be afraid of reality, not of being labeled this or that.

That's all folks! :laugh:

[cally]

Yes it's very dehumanising. Imagine if it was done to you.

[MelinusMargos]

Yes it's very dehumanising. Imagine if it was done to you.

I can't get how dehumanization correlates with correctness. Eating animals is deanimalizing though I don't think you would consider it wrong. Explain. It sounds like denying nature rules to me, in both cases, because both these two examples aren't neither correct nor wrong but just needed and instinctive. Or is this the so called "political correctness"? (A mere paranoid human invention).

I don't want to sound like an ass, just want to debeate.

[Mortimer]

yes it is wrong

[MelinusMargos]

yes it is wrong

Why? explain. Again, I don't want to sound like an ass, just want to hear your reasons and I can understand that maybe you perceive this discrimination threat more personally.

[Mortimer]

Why? explain. Again, I don't want to sound like an ass, just want to hear your reasons and I can understand that maybe you perceive this discrimination threat more personally.

i think it is common sense. like not beating up someone. i dont know how to explain it. you could ask me why it is wrong to beat up someone, i wouldnt know it either just that it is wrong

[Swearengen]

no. i think that race and culture should be taken into consideration with immigration.

[Dessy]

Yes

Racism is a bad word, most people associate racism with Europeans.

Discrimination is the word

[Wadaad]

institutional/systematic racism is wrong.

[Cleitus]

Another Question what is Racism ?

[Loki]

Yes it's very dehumanising. Imagine if it was done to you.

This.

Racism is just barbaric and inhumane.

[Pontios]

Racism has so many different definitions...

[Loki]

Racism has so many different definitions...

Yes. I can be racist towards you as a Pontic Greek. Would you like that?

[Cleitus]

Again what is Racism ?

[Pontios]

Yes. I can be racist towards you as a Pontic Greek. Would you like that?

Depends in what way. If I come to your country, into your nation, and you are racist to me. Honestly I would not like it but I cannot blame you either because I can do the same to others in my country... I try to look at both sides you know? :lol:

[Methusalem]

It's very simple, you people over think and over intellectualize. Anything that your common sense or self preservation tell you it's against your interests, you need to be aware of. Fuck the bullshit coming from brain dead idiots, listen to your instincts, and don't let BS guide you, if you do you will get hurt.

It's that simple. Theory is nice and makes morons feel good, your common sense and self preservation instincts are there to protect you, they will never let you down if you pay attention.

All man made BS is just that bullshit. Be afraid of reality, not of being labeled this or that.

That's all folks! :laugh:

Rape, cannibalism and murder is also part of natural instincts. It is also part of every organism self preservation instincts. Is this the lowbrow social-darwnisitic justification of articdumbwolf and MelinusMargos to justify inhuman racist behaviour/anykind of selfish and chauvinistic behaviour?
What differs us from animals, is that we have based on our higher intelligence created a culture( yep 'All man made BS' sureeeee) which inhibits and sanctions our natural instincts. Laws, morals, rules. Hence you are going to get imprisoned if you dare to rape a female based on your 'self preservation instincts'.

Well but what can you expect from a pseudo-enlightened butthist. :laugh:

[Loki]

Again what is Racism ?

You as a Nazi should know. Otherwise, look on Wikipedia.

[Sikeliot]

I have hopes that the racist generations will not leave behind their legacy in the younger generations.

[MelinusMargos]

Another Question what is Racism ?

Generally speaking the most common definition is "recognizing a racial structure in humanity and proposing a superiority gerarchy between these races". According to the definition I'm not considered racist because I do not think "biological superiority" exist. Of course I have pride for my roots but I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Cleitus]

You as a Nazi should know. Otherwise, look on Wikipedia.

WOW a very intellectual Anwser. Explain !

[Cleitus]

Generally speaking the most common definition is "recognizing a racial structure in humanity and proposing a superiority gerarchy between these races". According to the definition I'm not considered racist because I do not think "biological superiority" exist. Of course I have pride for my roots but I don't see anything wrong with that.
So the Truth is Racist ?

[MelinusMargos]

Rape, cannibalism and murder is also part of natural instincts. It is also part of every organism self preservation instincts. Is this the lowbrow social-darwnisitic justification of articdumbwolf and MelinusMargos to justify inhuman racist behaviour/anykind of selfish and chauvinistic behaviour?
What differs us from animals, is that we have based on our higher intelligence created a culture( yep 'All man made BS' sureeeee) which inhibits and sanctions our natural instincts. Laws, morals, rules. Hence you are going to get imprisoned if you dare to rape a female based on your 'self preservation instincts'.

Well but what can you expect from a pseudo-enlightened butthist. :laugh:

No, we don't differ from animals and rape even if can be instinctive to some it'll be instinctive to others to punish this behaviour in defense of the victim, totally natural. I am just expressing reality and truth, I know communists like you will never accept it. You all think you're living in a dream world. Modern society is mutilating the nature of the human being. Reality is how you would behave naked in the middle of the mountains or in the middle of whatever natural environment.

[Pontios]

Generally speaking the most common definition is "recognizing a racial structure in humanity and proposing a superiority gerarchy between these races". According to the definition I'm not considered racist because I do not think "biological superiority" exist. Of course I have pride for my roots but I don't see anything wrong with that.

That I see as the difference between a Nationalist and a National Socialist...

[Cleitus]

The only difference is the Socialism.

[Pontios]

The only difference is the Socialism.

Yes, by name. But plain nationalism and NS are quite different things. For one, nationalism is not a branch of Fascism.

[MelinusMargos]

That I see as the difference between a Nationalist and a National Socialist...

The pretention of superiority?

[Pontios]

The pretention of superiority?

Yes.

[MelinusMargos]

Yes, by name. But plain nationalism and NS are quite different things. For one, nationalism is not a branch of Fascism.

I actually think fascism is kind of differentiated from NS, Nazi germany was NS but on a fascist substrate IMHO.
Fascism is a way of doing things. It's a sort of pratical transposition of futurism in politics.
NS is an ideology.

[Cleitus]

Please Guys you know it also but you just doesn't want to be consideret Racist. That's ridiculous

[Cleitus]

I doesnt agree in all points with the NS.

[MelinusMargos]

In the most misused and generalized term of the word I'm racist, no problem saying it. It's my body and instinct that leads me to being that way. This doesn't imply that I'm aggressive or violent. Not at all.

[Pontios]

Please Guys you know it also but you just doesn't want to be consideret Racist. That's ridiculous

Depending what your definition of being a racist is, depends on whether I am a racist or not.

My belief is that one race on average is more superior to another. I also believe that whites should keep their race pure and stop it from being destroyed as it is being now.

Whether you consider that belief racist or not is up to you. Myself, I do not see myself as a racist, but if in your definition of "racism" that is racist, then yes, I am a racist for you... But for me, either way it doesn't matter. My beliefs are my beliefs and I do not care what others see them as.

[Cleitus]

In my Opinion nobody is a Racist because its just a term found by Trotsky, to determinate Nationalism.

[MelinusMargos]

My belief is that one race on average is more superior to another. I also believe that whites should keep their race pure and stop it from being destroyed as it is being now.

Superior in what, genes? this is not science fiction. Superiority as a biological concept is fallacious. You can talk about intelligence or other precise measurable factors as the differences in this are documented. There you can do without problem, it's not science fiction that a negroid is less intelligent on the average than a caucasian for example. Still a guy from Congo will have his penis 3 times bigger than ours and this can be considered superiority too :cool:

[Methusalem]

No, we don't differ from animals and

Cut this crap. Didn't you read my previous post? What differs us from animals, is that we have based on our higher intelligence created a culture which inhibits and sanctions our natural instincts. Laws, morals, rules. Animals don't have a culture, selfmade laws, morals, rules, they don't have traditions, they don't even a have a complex language as we have, which is the foundation to create culture. So you still live an animal dreamworld? 19 years of your entire life?


rape even if can be instinctive to some it'll be instinctive to others to punish this behaviour in defense of the victim, totally natural.

Oh really? Which animal species is collectively punishing one individual based on some higher moral values? They might do it to rescue their own offspring. But that's it.


I am just expressing reality and truth, I know communists like you will never accept it. You all think you're living in a dream world. Modern society is mutilating the nature of the human being. Reality is how you would behave naked in the middle of the mountains or in the middle of whatever natural environment.

Wrong. What you are trying to do, is to impose and project your social-darwinstic reasoning on all humans. 'Self-preservation' has a broad definition. With your justification, every inhuman behaviour is legit. Mass murder, rape, cannibalism etc. etc.
I really would like to see your sophisticated, powdered, maiden ass getting humiliated by some USAmerican prison negroes. Don't be shy. They are just following their primeval, archaic self-preservation instincts-> sex drive. Hence a hole will be hole in their eyes. Now bend over.

[MelinusMargos]

In my Opinion nobody is a Racist because its just a term found by Trotsky, to determinate Nationalism.

That's the real point.

[MelinusMargos]

Cut this crap. Didn't you read my previous post? What differs us from animals, is that we have based on our higher intelligence created a culture which inhibits and sanctions our natural instincts. Laws, morals, rules. Animals don't have a culture, selfmade laws, morals, rules, they don't have traditions, they don't even a have a complex language as we have, which is the foundation to create culture. So you still live an animal dreamworld? 19 years of your entire life?



Oh really? Which animal species is collectively punishing one individual based on some higher moral values? They might do it to rescue their own offspring. But that's it.



Wrong. What you are trying to do, is to impose and project your social-darwinstic reasoning on all humans. 'Self-preservation' has a broad definition. With your justification, every inhuman behaviour is legit. Mass murder, rape, cannibalism etc. etc.
I really would like to see your sophisticated, powdered, maiden ass getting humiliated by some USAmerican prison negroes. Don't be shy. They are just following their primeval, archaic self-preservation instincts-> sex drive. Hence a hole will be hole in their eyes. Now bend over.

1. You aren't an untouchable piece of gold just because you have a brain
2. We have moral values as a dog has got croquette values, just different expression, or are you saying animals are inferior?!?! (RACIST!!11!!11!!)
3. I would have like to see what happened if you brought your raping negroes to europe during ancient times.

[Pontios]

Superior in what, genes? this is not science fiction. Superiority as a biological concept is fallacious. You can talk about intelligence or other precise measurable factors as the differences in this are documented. There you can do without problem, it's not science fiction that a negroid is less intelligent on the average than a caucasian for example. Still a guy from Congo will have his penis 3 times bigger than ours and this can be considered superiority too :cool:

Superior in general survival. I am sure his 3 time bigger penis didn't help him when Europe owned all of Africa...

[MelinusMargos]

Superior in general survival. I am sure his 3 time bigger penis didn't help him when Europe owned all of Africa...

Why should Africa be owned? African imperialism? It has long died luckily.

[Methusalem]

it's not science fiction that a negroid is less intelligent on the average than a caucasian for example.

Yes it is science fiction. I am just going to copy paste again, what I have already posted in another thread. After you read the post, please come again at me and claim that there is a genetic determination for 'Low intelligence' among certain ethnic groups. :wink

Like many racists you don't know much about the biological determination of 'intelligence'. Let me educate you:

The question is how much of the measured IQ of the people is based on inheritance, and how much is dependent on environmental influences? At least in earlier decades, a certain numerical value was mentioned and discussed as a result of research over and over again: 80 % of IQ differences between individuals are dependent on genes, and approximately 20% are due to the environment. Among the important professionals, there have been over this basic statement diametrically opposite judgments. Some later studies came to different percentage values, for example 70:30 or even 60:40 But this is no surprise, because the environmental impact is indeed not a biological size, but it depends on social and cultural conditions such as population structure, education policy, family and school relationships etc. etc. and these can change with time trends on the one hand, on the other hand these also differ from country to country. What you don't get is that environmental factors have an huge influence from the time of being an unborn fetus your mother's womb and during the eary childhood:

1. Maternal stress during pregnacy

http://www.dana.org/news/cerebrum/detail.aspx?id=37188


During gestation, the fetal brain develops dramatically as structures and connections form, providing the foundation for all future development. The fetal environment plays a critical role in these early neural processes, for better or for worse. Scientists now know that exposure to maternal stress can sometimes have deleterious effects on the fetus, depending on the cause, timing, duration, and intensity of stress. Fortunately, postnatal interventions, such as a secure parent-infant bond and an enriched environment, can buffer the potential negative consequences.

2. drug abuse(exposure to toxic chemicals and other substances)

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0049407


We found that four genetic variants in alcohol metabolising genes in 4167 children were strongly related to lower IQ at age 8, as was a risk allele score based on these 4 variants. This effect was only seen amongst the offspring of mothers who were moderate drinkers (1–6 units alcohol per week during pregnancy (per allele effect estimates were −1.80 (95% CI = −2.63 to −0.97) p = 0.00002, with no effect among children whose mothers abstained during pregnancy (0.16 (95%CI = −1.05 to 1.36) p = 0.80), p-value for interaction = 0.009). A further genetic variant associated with alcohol metabolism in mothers was associated with their child’s IQ, but again only among mothers who drank during pregnancy.

This study was done on mainly African-American children:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2269702/


Children with prenatal drug exposure scored significantly lower on measures of language, school readiness skills, impulse control, and visual attention span/sequencing than controls matched for age and SES. Intelligence, visual-motor, manual dexterity, and sustained attention scores were not significantly different between groups. The total sample scored significantly below the normative mean on standardized measures of intelligence, language, school readiness, visual-motor skills, impulse control, and sustained attention, with 40% scoring at least 1 standard deviation below the mean (IQ <85) on a measure of intelligence. It is worrisome that 66% of caregivers in the drug-exposed group continue to abuse drugs at the 5-year follow-up. Findings suggest that children with prenatal drug exposure are at increased risk for learning and attention deficits and are in need of close developmental surveillance and coordinated care to support their school success and improve behavioral outcome.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18216735


There was a significant nonlinear relationship between marijuana exposure and child intelligence. Heavy marijuana use (one or more cigarettes per day) during the first trimester was associated with lower verbal reasoning scores on the Stanford-Binet Intelligence Scale. Heavy use during the second trimester predicted deficits in the composite, short-term memory, and quantitative scores. Third-trimester heavy use was negatively associated with the quantitative score. Other significant predictors of intelligence included maternal IQ, home environment, and social support.
CONCLUSIONS:
These findings indicate that prenatal marijuana exposure has a significant effect on school-age intellectual development.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12009494


A growing body of literature indicates that maternal smoking during pregnancy is associated with neurotoxic effects on children. Both animal model studies and human epidemiologic studies demonstrate similar effects in terms of increased activity, decreased attention, and diminished intellectual abilities. Epidemiologic studies also suggest that prenatal tobacco exposure is associated with higher rates of behavior problems and school failure. These findings are explored and their implications for child health policy and practice, and for research, are discussed.

3. Stress during early childhood

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16362242


Findings provide support for an association between PTSD symptoms and IQ, particularly verbal IQ. Two possible reasons for this relationship are that higher levels of Verbal IQ may serve as a premorbid protective factor against the development of re-experiencing symptoms, or performance on post-trauma Verbal IQ measures may be negatively impacted by expression of PTSD symptoms. Longitudinal studies are needed to clarify which of these two possibilities explains the association.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11876674


After controlling for confounders (child's gender, caregiver's IQ, home environment, socioeconomic status, and prenatal exposure to substance abuse) violence exposure was related to the child's IQ (P =.01) and reading ability (P =.045). Trauma-related distress accounted for additional variance in reading ability (P =.01). Using the derived regression equation to estimate effect sizes, a child experiencing both violence exposure and trauma-related distress at or above the 90th percentile would be expected to have a 7.5-point (SD, 0.5) decrement in IQ and a 9.8-point (SD, 0.66) decrement in reading achievement.
CONCLUSION:
In this study, exposure to violence and trauma-related distress in young children were associated with substantial decrements in IQ and reading achievement.


4. bad nutrition

http://ernaehrungsdenkwerkstatt.de/fileadmin/user_upload/EDWText/TextElemente/Ernaehrungswissenschaft/NutritionProgramming_Fetal_Barker_4Sup_611__2001.p df


Low birthweight is now known to be associated with increased rates of coronary heart disease and the related disorders stroke, hypertension and non-insulin dependent diabetes. These associations have been extensively replicated in studies in different countries and are not the result of confounding variables. They extend across the normal range of birthweight and depend on lower birthweights in relation to the duration of gestation rather than the effects of premature birth. The associations are thought to be consequences of ‘programming’, whereby a stimulus or insult at a critical, sensitive period of early life has permanent effects on structure, physiology and metabolism. Programming of the fetus may result from adaptations invoked when the materno-placental nutrient supply fails to match the fetal nutrient demand. Although the influences that impair fetal development and programme adult cardiovascular disease remain to be defined, there are strong pointers to the importance of maternal body composition and dietary balance during pregnancy.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149763405802349


Nutrition is probably the single greatest environmental influence both on the fetus and neonate, and plays a necessary role in the maturation and functional development of the central nervous system. Prenatal protein malnutrition adversely affects the developing brain in numerous ways, depending largely on its timing in relation to various developmental events in the brain and, to a lesser extent, on the type and severity of the deprivation. Many of the effects of prenatal malnutrition are permanent, though some degree of amelioration may be produced by exposure to stimulating and enriched environments. Malnutrition exerts its effects during development, not only during the so-called brain growth spurt period, but also during early organizational processes such as neurogenesis, cell migration, and differentiation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18458209


These results, based on the largest randomized trial ever conducted in the area of human lactation, provide strong evidence that prolonged and exclusive breastfeeding improves children's cognitive development.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11988057


Independent of a wide range of possible confounding factors, a significant positive association between duration of breastfeeding and intelligence was observed in 2 independent samples of young adults, assessed with 2 different intelligence tests.

5. Socio-cultural/socio-economic environment(education, family etc):

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/318/5858/1937.abstract


In a randomized controlled trial, we compared abandoned children reared in institutions to abandoned children placed in institutions but then moved to foster care. Young children living in institutions were randomly assigned to continued institutional care or to placement in foster care, and their cognitive development was tracked through 54 months of age. The cognitive outcome of children who remained in the institution was markedly below that of never-institutionalized children and children taken out of the institution and placed into foster care. The improved cognitive outcomes we observed at 42 and 54 months were most marked for the youngest children placed in foster care. These results point to the negative sequelae of early institutionalization, suggest a possible sensitive period in cognitive development, and underscore the advantages of family placements for young abandoned children.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2006/feb/18/medicineandhealth.lifeandhealth


Depriving children of a loving family environment causes lasting damage to their intelligence, emotional wellbeing and even their physical stature, according to the most extensive study of social deprivation yet.
A lack of care and attention left children with stunted growth, substantially lower IQs and more behavioural and psychological problems than children who had been better cared for, according to the report at the American Association for the Advancement of Science meeting in St Louis yesterday.

6. Stereotype threat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat)

7. epigenetic influences

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/8143069/Can-traumatic-events-trigger-inherited-depression.html


Can traumatic events trigger inherited depression?

Traumatic events like the Holocaust and terrorist attacks could lead to inherited psychological conditions including depression, say scientists.

While conventional thinking dictates that life events have no inheritable impact on a person's genes, recent research suggests otherwise, they believe.
Although DNA remains unaffected by events, there is growing evidence that what happens during life can affect which genes are switched on and which lie dormant.
Some scientists think these gene switches can be passed on through the generations.
Eva Jablonka and Gal Raz, from Tel Aviv University in Israel, have documented more than 100 cases of what is termed 'hereditary epigenetics' in fungi, plants and animals.
For example, the pair noted that when a pregnant rat was exposed to a chemical that changed reproductive hormones, generations of sick rats followed.
They say such cases are "the tip of a very large iceberg".
One of the best understood ways in which genes are switched on or off is called DNA methylation, in which methyl molecules attach themselves to parts of the genome.
Over- or under-methylation can switch pieces of DNA on and off, resulting in problems including cancer.
Scientists think traumatic events can alter DNA methylation in an individual, while recent studies suggest these epigenetic changes can be carried down the generations.
For example, while Zurich University scientists found that male mice removed from their mothers for the first two weeks of life became depressed, so too did their offspring - despite having normal levels of maternal care.
They believe certain genes in the father mice were not switched on because they were mistreated while young, and that these faults got passed to their offspring.
There is speculation that similar processes occur in humans.
For instance, Holocaust survivors often exhibit low levels of the stress hormone cortisol, a condition linked to post traumatic stress disorder. However, so too did many of their offspring. Scientists claim this is caused by an inherited change rather than upbringing.


Without taking these environmental factors into account, you will come up with wrong conclusions as you did. It is more complex than just looking on some IQ results, the amount geniuses and intellectual achievements among a certain ethnic group and to conclude that group X is therefore genetically less intelligent than group Y without taking those environmental factors into account.

Moreover a recent study suggests that only 20-40% of our childhood Intelligence is genetically inherited, while 80-60% is due to such environmental factors which makes IQ studies, the amount geniuses and intellectual achievements among a certain ethnic group as a even lesser important indicator for actual 'intelligence' of certain ethnic groups:



On average, 20 to 40 per cent of a child's intelligence is inherited, an international team of researchers has found.
The finding, from the largest yet genetic study of childhood intelligence, was published recently online in the journal Molecular Psychiatry.
"In our study, we found that between 20 to 40 per cent of the variation in childhood IQ is due to genetic factors," says lead author and geneticist, Dr Beben Benyamin, from the University of Queensland.
"This estimate from DNA information is lower than family studies, but it is consistent with the conclusion childhood intelligence is heritable."
(..)
They analysed DNA samples from nearly 18,000 children, aged six to 18 years, along with their IQ scores.
The researchers wanted to see if they could correlate any patterns of differences in the DNA with patterns of differences in IQ.
(..)
"But when we looked at the combined effect of all SNPs we can estimate the contribution of genetics to be about 20 to 40 per cent of the difference in IQ," says Benyamin.
(..)
Other studies show that genetics contributes 40 to 50 per cent to adult intelligence and the reason for this higher genetic effect is debatable, says Benyamin.
"The usual explanation is that non-genetic factors, such as shared environmental factors between family members (e.g. which school you go to) are more important at a young age, and that the effects of genetics become more important later in life," says Visscher.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2013/03/14/3709447.htm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2293861/Thank-parents-youre-smart-Up-40-childs-intelligence-inherited-researchers-claim.html


What you and many others fail to see is that a welfare check, an UZI, better civil rights and a ghettoblaster are not going to increase your IQ scores. Blacks in the USA and even in the UK tend to come from low-class environments and grow up under bad environmental conditions with a destructive culture. All those above mentioned environmental factors (maternal stress, stress during early childhood, bad nutrition, socio-cultural upbringing, drug abuse etc.) are obviously more common in deprived areas than in upper class gated communities and are also more common in Third world countries than in first world countries. I think I don't really have to tell you from which socio-economic and cultural environment most Blacks in the UK, USA and Africa come from.

[Pontios]

Why should Africa be owned? African imperialism? It has long died luckily.

I didn't say it should be. But it was. I myself am against imperialism.

[Methusalem]

1. You aren't an untouchable piece of gold just because you have a brain

Strawmen?


2. We have moral values as a dog has got croquette values, just different expression, or are you saying animals are inferior?!?! (RACIST!!11!!11!!)

Interesting pseudo-counterargument.


3. I would have like to see what happened if you brought your raping negroes to europe during ancient times.

And I would have like to see what happened if you went into an African jungle to chill with some silverback gorillas. I am pretty obvious that you won't survive one second based on the 'self-preservation instincts' of your beloved animals. :laugh:

[Kiyant]

Yes pretty much you can not hate or discriminate someone because of his race i know many nice Armenians,Greeks,Bulgarians and so on.
Do you think i would have been friends with them if i were a racist?

[Alenka]

Systematic racism and discrimination (i.e. in the laws, and the structure of society) -- yes.


institutional/systematic racism is wrong.
In that case affirmative action is wrong.

[Methusalem]

In that case affirmative action is wrong.

True. I am also against racial affirmative action. However I am for social affirmative action which favors people from lower classes.

[Drawing-slim]

Out of the races you don't like or find totally undesirable, if only one in one thousand is a good person, it would make it a crime to be a racist asshole. Morally speaking.
Humor and not wanting to mix with other races or ethnicities is perfectly moral.

[mr. logan]

Segregation is natural and must be enforced. Racism is an old term, cause all races have disappeared to serve the White race as actives. Race mixing push promoted by our Government is the modern eugenics. Racially deformed individuals are degenerated and they degenerate the environments they stick to, one way or the other. They are a natural aberration.

[Kiyant]

Segregation is natural and must be enforced. Racism is an old term, cause all races have disappeared to serve the White race as actives. Race mixing push promoted by our Government is the modern eugenics. Racially deformed individuals are degenerated and they degenerate the environments they stick to, one way or the other. They are a natural aberration.
Are you trolling?

[Loki]

I'd like to be segregated from mr. logan. This isn't racism :laugh:

[Methusalem]

Are you trolling?

No he is just a very delusional mixed-race Mestizo retard. He even claims that Ancient Egyptians, Sumerians and every civilization on earth was invented by 'whites'. :laugh:

[Cleitus]

No he is just a very delusional mixed-race Mestizo retard. He even claims that Ancient Egyptians, Sumerians and every civilization on earth was invented by 'whites'. :laugh:

for sure they were.

[Methusalem]

for sure they were.

Nope. They weren't. Maybe according to some outdated, esoteric Julius Evola Nutzi blarney. :wink

[Windischer]

Segregation is natural and must be enforced. Racism is an old term, cause all races have disappeared to serve the White race as actives. Race mixing push promoted by our Government is the modern eugenics. Racially deformed individuals are degenerated and they degenerate the environments they stick to, one way or the other. They are a natural aberration.

WTF?
im so glad that theres half of the european continent and the atlantic ocean segregating you from me.

[Loki]

Segregation is natural and must be enforced.

Anything that must be enforced isn't natural.

[WhiteWolf]

It is always wrong in my opinion, not needed at all.

[mr. logan]

There is an unnatural order now, pushed by Government, where the unnatural way is promoted as the natural way. Enforcement of the real natural law must come from every individual. This is the great eugenics plan currently moving on. All the Elite theorist have been defining eugenics since the beginning of the 20th century. Vaccination and medical sterilization where the early stages, now the degenerates commit self elimination in different ways. They pay for it. And people who like to suffer pain promote race mixing for free.

[Loki]

There is an unnatural order now, pushed by Government, where the unnatural way is promoted as the natural way. Enforcement of the real natural law must come from every individual. This is the great eugenics plan currently moving on. All the Elite theorist have been defining eugenics since the beginning of the 20th century. Vaccination and medical sterilization where the early stages, now the degenerates commit self elimination in different ways. They pay for it. And people who like to suffer pain promote race mixing for free.

There are no laws concerning mixed relationships anywhere in Europe or America, not even incentives for such. Free choice.

[Sblast]

If you treat it as loaded language (racism = unjustified discrimination; discrimination = unjustified different treatment of groups) - so yes, it's always wrong by definition.
If we separate (as we should) the concepts, we need to justify ourselves.
So discrimination as a neutral term is simply separating between two groups and treating them diffidently.
So a pregnant women maybe get a month holiday after pregnancy and that may be a good discriminatory policy. We may also discriminate children from watching porn, which may be a good policy. So what's positive discrimination and what's negative discrimination, does really depend on context.

[Manifest Destiny]

I guess my answer depends on how we define "racism" and "discrimination".

I not in favor of blind hatred for entire groups of people, ethnic cleansing, racially-motivated crimes and stuff like that, but I think it's fine to prefer the company of our own (in terms of race/ethnicity/religion/etc). I also think it's perfectly acceptable for racial and ethnic groups to look out for their own self interest when it comes to politics and economics.

Is my position racist? Some would say so, but I don't give a shit. :cool:

[Loki]

Is my position racist? Some would say so, but I don't give a shit. :cool:

No, that's not racism.

[Sblast]

Segregation is natural and must be enforced.

http://s10.postimg.org/yx061tohl/appeal_to_nature.png

[Methusalem]

http://s10.postimg.org/yx061tohl/appeal_to_nature.png

Yep. Rape is natural too. See Bonobo chimps. So let us rape Mr.Logan. :cool:

[Smaug]

Yes.

[Manifest Destiny]

Anything that must be enforced isn't natural.

That door swings both ways.

It's often the case that diversity must be enforced; either by the government via anti-discrimination laws, lawsuits, affirmative action, or through social pressure (boycotts, etc.). I don't know if the practice is still occurring, but some local governments still had school busing policies to increase diversity in certain public schools as recently a decade or so ago.

[Damião de Góis]

I think it's normal that people prefer to be around their own than around people from foreign countries.

[Manifest Destiny]

I think it's normal that people prefer to be around their own than around people from foreign countries.

Studies have shown that people even prefer to be around their own when it comes to things like education and income levels.

The idea that diversity is a strength only exists in the fantasy world populated by non-white race-carders and white liberals living in predominantly white gated communities.

[Sblast]

I guess my answer depends on how we define "racism" and "discrimination".

I not in favor of blind hatred for entire groups of people, ethnic cleansing, racially-motivated crimes and stuff like that, but I think it's fine to prefer the company of our own (in terms of race/ethnicity/religion/etc). I also think it's perfectly acceptable for racial and ethnic groups to look out for their own self interest when it comes to politics and economics.

Is my position racist? Some would say so, but I don't give a shit. :cool:

Here's a thought experiment; you get stuck on an island with a bunch of thugs from your "race" or ethnicity and automatically prefer them to a bunch of decent people from another race. Maybe some forced butt sex will remind you that ethnicity isn't essential to decency, unless you're into empty tautologies. "self interest" isn't a matter of race, it's a matter of rationality, and that in turn is a matter of group-values which need not serve one selflessly.

[Manifest Destiny]

Here's a thought experiment; you get stuck on an island with a bunch of thugs from your "race" or ethnicity and automatically prefer them to a bunch of decent people from another race. Maybe some forced butt sex will remind you that ethnicity isn't essential to decency, unless you're into empty tautologies. "self interest" isn't a matter of race, it's a matter of rationality, and that in turn is a matter of group-values which need not serve one selflessly.

That's a stupid argument, since I never said that decency follows strict racial lines. And only a fool would deny that self-interest can have a racial component.

[DarkSecret]

Of course. Always... Nevertheless racist people have some reasons to be racist... Although that is understandable it doesn't make it right. Some people kill people for some reasons...

[Methusalem]

That's a stupid argument, since I never said that decency follows strict racial lines. And only a fool would deny that self-interest can have a racial component.

What about this one: My self-interest is only based on an anthropocentric view. What matters is humanity and not 'race'.

[DarkSecret]

What about this one: My self-interest is only based on an anthropocentric view. What matters is humanity and not 'race'.

Hmmm...

[King Claus]

Racism is very normal, do you think white people are the only people that can act a little racist?

[MelinusMargos]

What about this one: My self-interest is only based on an anthropocentric view. What matters is humanity and not 'race'.

Humanity is race, you are what you are according to your genes, not only according to your choices and behaviour.

[MelinusMargos]

Racism is very normal, do you think white people are the only people that can act a little racist?

White people is probably the least racist people

[Manifest Destiny]

White people is probably the least racist people

Possibly. Or maybe were just as racist as every other group, but make more effort to hide it since we're the only ones expected to never act in our own racial self-interest?

[MelinusMargos]

Possibly. Or maybe were just as racist as every other group, but make more effort to hide it since we're the only ones expected to never act in our own racial self-interest?

That's in my opinion the most possible explaination

[Sblast]

That's a stupid argument, since I never said that decency follows strict racial lines. And only a fool would deny that self-interest can have a racial component.

Yes, and dirving the point home...Why a-priori prefer your own 'race'?
[probabilities we update].

[Manifest Destiny]

Yes, and dirving the point home...Why a-priori prefer your own 'race'?
[probabilities we update].

More likely to be culturally and politically compatible.

In terms of relationships, I prefer women of my own race (though I don't care about ethnicity).

Generally make better neighbors (crime statistics will back up this claim).

[Sblast]

More likely to be culturally and politically compatible.

In terms of relationships, I prefer women of my own race (though I don't care about ethnicity).

Generally make better neighbors (crime statistics will back up this claim).

As I said, probability is something we update according to the evidence, and it need not be a matter of race more than types of uniformity.

[Manifest Destiny]

As I said, probability is something we update according to the evidence, and it need not be a matter of race more than types of uniformity.

But in this case, probability backs up my preferences.

[Sblast]

But in this case, probability backs up my preferences.

Firstly, no data was provided and no explanation was on hand to show what can be concluded from it.
Probability is a contingent state of affairs, it does not "back up preferences", period. When you meet an individual you update your probabilities accordingly - meaning if you meet a group of young Turks that share the same political ideology of yours - they will prefer them to certain member of your ethnic group in this aspect. Same goes for business, education, schooling and what not.
As far as political thought goes, "your preferences" are not a replacement for one, they have place in one.

[Kiyant]

When i look at all the people the Turanic people were the least racist people in the world.

[Manifest Destiny]

Firstly, no data was provided and no explanation was on hand to show what can be concluded from it.
Probability is a contingent state of affairs, it does not "back up preferences", period. When you meet an individual you update your probabilities accordingly - meaning if you meet a group of young Turks that share the same political ideology of yours - they will prefer them to certain member of your ethnic group in this aspect. Same goes for business, education, schooling and what not.
As far as political thought goes, "your preferences" are not a replacement for one, they have place in one.

Well, there obviously isn't scientific data to back up my personal tastes in women. But there is data about voting patterns and crime statistics. I wouldn't be surprised if there was also data about cultural and recreational activities. Have you ever been to a NASCAR race, PBR rodeo, country music concert or a symphony? I have, and they were almost 100% white.

[wvwvw]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m45l4iUMQN1qi7x2xo1_500.jpg

[icebear]

No. America was a much better country when the blacks were segregated. For other races, yes it is wrong.

True story here...

I'm up in Vermont on some business a few years back and I'm picking up a few things in the local grocery store and listening to a conversation which I assumed involved theories on race, which sounded sort of like



....shiftless worthless bastards, just a total drain on society, highest IQ in the regions gotta be about 40, about what you'd expect after four generations living on welfare...




....Nothin a B-29 raid like in 45 couldn't take care of, be doin the world a favor...

In other words it sounded sort of like David Duke and the Grand Dragon and Imperial Wizard of the clan talking about people they didn't like.

And this had been going on for six or eight minutes at the point I went to check out and somebody said something or other to me and I replied that there was no shortage of people like they were describing around the D.C. area where I lived, and one of the Vermonters replied:



"Yeah, but down there, they're all BLACK..."


Those guys had not been talking about blacks at all; they were talking about the cumulative effect of rogue political parties and uncontrolled government programs, and it was clear enough that race was not a factor, and that whites would be affected the same way anybody else is under the same circumstances.

My guess at the time was that they were talking about Burlington, but I'm not even sure of that. The point is, that all the Negroes in America could vanish into air tomorrow and, if you didn't outlaw and ban the demoKKKrat party that selfsame day, you'd have accomplished nothing, the same problems would be back in full force thirty years later.

[wvwvw]

I support discrimination if that means mass deportation of all immigrants that enter the country illegally. Other than that I would never be racist towards a Pakistani immigrant - or any other immigrant- on an individual basis (at least not consciously). Every human being deserves to be treated with respect.

[armenianbodyhair]

Yes.

[Drawing-slim]

I support discrimination if that means mass deportation of all immigrants that enter the country illegally. Other than that I would never be racist towards a Pakistani immigrant - or any other immigrant- on an individual basis (at least not consciously). Every human being deserves to be treated with respect.Cut the crap and tell us how many immigrants you've singlehandedly beat up and abuse?:D

[Pontios]

Every human being deserves to be treated with respect.

Is that right? :lol: A bit hypocritical don't you think?

[Manifest Destiny]

Is that right? :lol: A bit hypocritical don't you think?

It's hypocritical to expect immigrants to obey the laws of the nations they are entering?