Jews, Italians Share Genetic Links

[YeshAtid]

http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/35312/jews-italians-share-genetic-links
http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100603/full/news.2010.277.html

[Anglojew]

Sweet

[Smeagol]

Jews, and South Italians are very closely related.

[YeshAtid]

Jews, and South Italians are very closely related.

I know but there's no real explanation

[Smeagol]

I know but there's no real explanation

They have similar amounts of European, and Middle Eastern blood.

[YeshAtid]

They have similar amounts of European, and Middle Eastern blood.

Hmm,for Italians whereabouts in the middle east?

[Smeagol]

Hmm,for Italians whereabouts in the middle east?

The Levant.

[YeshAtid]

The Levant.

So they're literally blood brothers ?

[Smeagol]

So they're literally blood brothers ?

South Italians, and Ashkenazi Jews, yes.;)

[YeshAtid]

South Italians, and Ashkenazi Jews, yes.;)

Maseltov lol

[Sikeliot]

Western Sicilians in particular are close to Ashkenazis due to coincidentally acquiring similar mixture through different means.

Western Sicily was heavily Neolithic to begin with, with Elymians from Anatolia and Phoenicians and Carthaginians who conquered. Then, the Normans settled, bringing Germanic influences from NW Europe. Then, peninsular Italians were brought there to Latinize the island and settled. Thus, you get Germanic, Levantine, and Italic.

Ashkenazis began in the Levant as Israelites, then settled in the Roman Empire, acquiring Greco-Roman mixture. Then they moved to the Rhine Valley and picked up minor Germanic influence. Thus, in a different way, Germanic Levantine and Italic.

[Smeagol]

Western Sicilians in particular are close to Ashkenazis due to coincidentally acquiring similar mixture through different means.

Western Sicily was heavily Neolithic to begin with, with Elymians from Anatolia and Phoenicians and Carthaginians who conquered. Then, the Normans settled, bringing Germanic influences from NW Europe. Then, peninsular Italians were brought there to Latinize the island and settled. Thus, you get Germanic, Levantine, and Italic.

Ashkenazis began in the Levant as Israelites, then settled in the Roman Empire, acquiring Greco-Roman mixture. Then they moved to the Rhine Valley and picked up minor Germanic influence. Thus, in a different way, Germanic Levantine and Italic.

And there was some mixing with Slavs. Anyway, I think Ashkenazis average about 15-20% North European.

[YeshAtid]

And there was some mixing with Slavs. Anyway, I think Ashkenazis average about 15-20% North European.

That high?

[ariel]

Western Sicilians in particular are close to Ashkenazis due to coincidentally acquiring similar mixture through different means.

Western Sicily was heavily Neolithic to begin with, with Elymians from Anatolia and Phoenicians and Carthaginians who conquered. Then, the Normans settled, bringing Germanic influences from NW Europe. Then, peninsular Italians were brought there to Latinize the island and settled. Thus, you get Germanic, Levantine, and Italic.

Ashkenazis began in the Levant as Israelites, then settled in the Roman Empire, acquiring Greco-Roman mixture. Then they moved to the Rhine Valley and picked up minor Germanic influence. Thus, in a different way, Germanic Levantine and Italic.

ashkenazi jews probably immigrant to europe from different places , some from the roman empire as you said and some from mesopotamia and the caucasus.

Ashkenazi Jews are drawn towards the Caucasus and Eastern Europe, reflecting historical admixture events with Europeans, while Sephardi Jews cluster tightly with the Levantine groups. These results are consistent with previous studies reporting higher European genome-wide admixture in Ashkenazi Jews compared with other Jews

http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1003316

the christian palestinians are good example to how ashkenazi jews shold look before the exile.

[Smeagol]

That high?

I think so.

[YeshAtid]

ashkenazi jews probably immigrant to europe from different places , some from the roman empire as you said and some from mesopotamia and the caucasus.

Ashkenazi Jews are drawn towards the Caucasus and Eastern Europe, reflecting historical admixture events with Europeans, while Sephardi Jews cluster tightly with the Levantine groups. These results are consistent with previous studies reporting higher European genome-wide admixture in Ashkenazi Jews compared with other Jews

http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1003316

the christian palestinians are good example to how ashkenazi jews shold look before the exile.
Was there any historical admix between azkenazi and other jewish groups.Conversos were numerous

[ariel]

Was there any historical admix between azkenazi and other jewish groups.Conversos were numerous

in some cases they mixed with sephardic jews .

[YeshAtid]

in some cases they mixed with sephardic jews .

Which probably explains cases like Jeff Goldblum

[ariel]

Which probably explains cases like Jeff Goldblum

i dont know, its also could be iranian influence on ashkenazi jews...

[YeshAtid]

Historically jews and italians have had good relations

[YeshAtid]

I think so.

source?

[Smeagol]

source?

Hmm, I guess I was wrong, it's 13.2% on average, it varies though. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArJDEoCgzRKedEY4Y3lTUVBaaFp0bC1zZlBDcTZEY lE#gid=0

[YeshAtid]

Hmm, I guess I was wrong, it's 13.2% on average, it varies though. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArJDEoCgzRKedEY4Y3lTUVBaaFp0bC1zZlBDcTZEY lE#gid=0

it varies presumably

[Conte Mascetti]

LOL.
If Sicilians cluster with Ashkenazim, that's because the latters have very high South-West Asian admixture and a very high East European admixture, both very low among Sicilians.
It's like -4 + 4 (Ashkenazim) = -1 + 1 (Sicilians)... if you know what I mean.

[Sikeliot]

LOL.
If Sicilians cluster with Ashkenazim, that's because the latters have very high South-West Asian admixture and a very high East European admixture, both very low among Sicilians.
It's like -4 + 4 (Ashkenazim) = -1 + 1 (Sicilians)... if you know what I mean.

Sicilians have SW Asian admixture higher than any other European group besides Cypriots and Ashkenazis.

[Conte Mascetti]

Sicilians have SW Asian admixture higher than any other European group besides Cypriots and Ashkenazis.
Ashkenazim have more SW Asian, and more East Euro.
That's why they """""cluster""""" with Sicilians.
If you take a hybrid between a Norwegian and a Lybian, he may cluster with Sicilians, too.

[Sikeliot]

Ashkenazim have more SW Asian, and more East Euro.
That's why they """""cluster""""" with Sicilians.
If you take a hybrid between a Norwegian and a Lybian, he may cluster with Sicilians, too.

Sicilians are actually closer genetically to Libyans than Norwegians, but probably not by much. I know from Oracle that they're closer to Egyptians than to Brits.

Ashkenazim have 3% more SW Asian, pretty much. Most other Europeans have much less than Sicilians have.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

I knew this before because my first test results showed i was 35% jewish. But when it had upgraded it showed it was euro with 7.7 % found to be italian (but only on gedmatch) as well. Than i got tested with 23 and me and showed up euro as well

[JQP4545]

Its not that they share links. Jewish people look Italian because they are Italian. In the Roman Empire there were only 500,000 Jews in Israel, but there were 6 million living in the empire. Most of these 5.5 million were converts from southern Europe, primarily Italy.

[Isleño]

They have similar amounts of European, and Middle Eastern blood.

Yes they do, but here's the thing...they are both largely Med, Meso Euro and Cauco-Perso-Gedrosian which are components of both Europeans and Middle Easterns. Both have minor SW Asian and minor North African. But then here's where it get's crazy....Neolithic Med that is found in Europeans is supposed to be partially Mesolithic Europe admixed, but then if Jews had any Med from the Levant, it wouldn't have this Mesolithic Euro admixture. So that leads several different theories of how they became similar. I personally think that Mesolithic Euro admixture in the Neolithic Med component fluctuates per area of Europe, so it could have been lower in the Neolithic of southern Italy. There are several different theories out there on how they became similar as they have very similar amounts of mutual components. I think Jews largely picked up some of these components in Europe.

[Smeagol]

Yes they do, but here's the thing...they are both largely Med, Meso Euro and Cauco-Perso-Gedrosian which are components of both Europeans and Middle Easterns. Both have minor SW Asian and minor North African. But then here's where it get's crazy....Neolithic Med that is found in Europeans is supposed to be partially Mesolithic Europe admixed, but then if Jews had any Med from the Levant, it wouldn't have this Mesolithic Euro admixture. So that leads several different theories of how they became similar. I personally think that Mesolithic Euro admixture in the Neolithic Med component fluctuates per area of Europe, so it could have been lower in the Neolithic of southern Italy. There are several different theories out there on how they became similar as they have very similar amounts of mutual components. I think Jews largely picked up some of these components in Europe.

I don't think Neolithic Med component has Mesolithic admixture. I'm not sure. The reason Jews are close to South Italians/Sicilians (I think) is due both to varying amounts of European admixture in Jews, and post Neolithic Middle Eastern admixture in S. Italians (Partly from Phoenicians, but mostly due to Roman era slaves/settlers, which is the only way to explain Semitic looks in many S. Italians.)

[Isleño]

I don't think Neolithic Med component has Mesolithic admixture. I'm not sure. The reason Jews are close to South Italians/Sicilians (I think) is due both to varying amounts of European admixture in Jews, and post Neolithic Middle Eastern admixture in S. Italians (Partly from Phoenicians, but mostly due to Roman era slaves/settlers, which is the only way to explain Semitic looks in many S. Italians.)Yes, I'm completely aware what type of components they share and who they came from as both have similar amounts of components (Sicilians and Ashkenazis, also Maltese). I was trying to remember what I had read when I commented about the mixing with Mesolithic Euros, but actually it was Med mixed with Basal Eurasian and it was before the expansion into Europe, so that would mean Neolithic Med in Europe is all Med. But still, it was WHG-related Basal Eurasian. I went looking for it and this is from the 2013 Lazaridis study:

"We sequenced genomes from a ~7,000 year old early farmer from Stuttgart in Germany, an ~8,000 year old hunter-gatherer from Luxembourg, and seven ~8,000 year old hunter-gatherers from southern Sweden. We analyzed these data together with other ancient genomes and 2,345 contemporary humans to show that the great majority of present-day Europeans derive from at least three highly differentiated populations: West European Hunter-Gatherers (WHG), who contributed ancestry to all Europeans but not to Near Easterners; Ancient North Eurasians (ANE), who were most closely related to Upper Paleolithic Siberians and contributed to both Europeans and Near Easterners; and Early European Farmers (EEF), who were mainly of Near Eastern origin but also harbored WHG-related ancestry. We model these populations’ deep relationships and show that EEF had ~44% ancestry from a “Basal Eurasian” lineage that split prior to the diversification of all other non-African lineages."

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YbYK8NzQNAY/UrihRsR5eSI/AAAAAAAAJbo/TYynaV4cO4Y/s1600/model.png

But it seems the mix happen before the spread to Europe hence why Ashkenazis and Sicilians score similar.

Did you check out Sicilian and Ashkenazi on that K=20 Lazaridis admixture run I posted, if not, here it is again (Sicilians and Ashkenazis have very similar amounts of components, but Ashkenazis seem to have a tad bit more of the 2 foreign elements [SW Asian and North African] than Sicilians):

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Admixtures-Lazaridis.png

[Sikeliot]

Sicilians SW Asian varies more but they have larger outliers than Ashkenazis.